ATI’S RADEON™ 9800 PRO Mac Special Edition

[7on]

New Video card

http://ati.com/companyinfo/press/2004/4724.html

[Gymnut]

Unfortunately it'll only be for the G5's but at least the gap between Mac and PC video cards narrows a hair.

[Freg3000]

I just want ATI to sell me an card with ADC on it that will work in my G4 (Dual 1GHz MDD). Please......

[job]

Nifty. I wonder if Apple will offer it BTO.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by job
Nifty. I wonder if Apple will offer it BTO.

I certainly hope Apple offers this as an option on the new G5s when they come out. It would be a mistake not to.

I'll be very curious to see how much more it costs, though, through Apple.

D

[Sabbath]

Originally posted by Freg3000
I just want ATI to sell me an card with ADC on it that will work in my G4 (Dual 1GHz MDD). Please......

I remember reading somewhere that the power supply to the agp slot on a G4 powermac can't handle the newer high power ati cards and an adc connection. That's why the old 9800 didn't have adc on the retail version and this new one is only for the G5, so I doubt you'll have much luck sorry.

[MacsRgr8]

Closest you can get is to try to find an OEM 9700.... pretty difficult though.

Or Dr.Bott's DVI to ADC adaptor... on the Retail 9800 (making it really expensive).

[solvs]

Originally posted by Freg3000
I just want ATI to sell me an card with ADC on it that will work in my G4 (Dual 1GHz MDD). Please......

What about the retail Radeon 9000? That has ADC.

[MacsRgr8]

BTW... any idea why the G5 OEM Radeon 9800 is "clocked down"?

Taken from BareFeats (http://www.barefeats.com/quick.html)

[Sabbath]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
BTW... any idea why the G5 OEM Radeon 9800 is "clocked down"?

Taken from BareFeats (http://www.barefeats.com/quick.html)

I don't know why, but I do know it is deliberate! Probably to boost retail sales at a .guess

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by solvs
What about the retail Radeon 9000? That has ADC.

Wasn't the MDD Dual 1 GHz equipped with the 9000?
I think the QS Dual 1 GHz had a GeForce 4 MX....

Either way, if you want a great grfx card for in a Dual 1 GHz G4, I can understand that anything less than a GeForce 4 Ti or Radeon 9700 wouldn't please you.

I understand his problem... :(

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by Sabbath
I don't know why, but I do know it is deliberate! Probably to boost retail sales at a .guess

But the retail product is aimed for the G4 market, and the OEM is G5 only.
:confused:
I don't see why one card's sales would interfere with the other.

Unless you mean the retail "G5 special edition, 256 MB version".
Make this card "extra better"... not only double the VRAM, but also a 30 MHz clock speed increase.

[Sabbath]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
But the retail product is aimed for the G4 market, and the OEM is G5 only.
:confused:
I don't see why one card's sales would interfere with the other.

Unless you mean the retail "G5 special edition, 256 MB version".
Make this card "extra better"... not only double the VRAM, but also a 30 MHz clock speed increase.

I was thinking ATi would make more from retail ones than OEM ones but really just speculation. Hence some people may buy a G5 and the graphics card separately so they could have the best. Maybe they probably knew the pro model was coming, so they could sucker a few more people in with a boost in clock speed as the general concencous seems to be no one cares about the extra memory from 128 to 256.

[MacsRgr8]

Yeah, possibly.
When I bougt my Dual 1.8 GHz G5, I immedately put the OEM 9800 in, not knowing its clock frequency was 30 MHz lower than the retail version.
I did know the extra features (FSAA, AF, VSync -override settings) which are 9800 retail Mac only, wouldn't be there on the OEM one, which do I find disappointing. But that they also clocked this card down, making it a very, very expensive BTO option.

I paid $420 (incl. VAT) for this BTO card, thus an "extra" price. And paid $380 (incl. VAT) for the Retail one (for in my Dual G4), which not an "extra" price.
So, $40 gives me an ADC port (which I don't use, but is very important to many), but no ATi options, and clocked down... :confused:

[Sabbath]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Yeah, possibly.
When I bougt my Dual 1.8 GHz G5, I immedately put the OEM 9800 in, not knowing its clock frequency was 30 MHz lower than the retail version.
I did know the extra features (FSAA, AF, VSync -override settings) which are 9800 retail Mac only, wouldn't be there on the OEM one, which do I find disappointing. But that they also clocked this card down, making it a very, very expensive BTO option.

Very good point about the lack of information, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe this way allows them to sell the less able chips from a batch (sounds like baking cookies :rolleyes: ) for a higher price as consumers simply dont know theres a difference.

I don't know when the retail 9800 came out? Perhaps it wasnt quite ready for the G5s release (specifically the drivers), in which case might it be the possible that a driver update could clock the OEM chips up?

Damn you with your dual G5 :p

[MacsRgr8]

The Retail (AGP 2x, 4x) 9800 Pro was available in mid-July. so very shortly after the introduction of the G5.
I understand that the Retail card is just a Mac-ready version of the "normal" PC-version of the Radeon 9800 Pro. Seemingly only a ROM-update (flash) to make it Mac ready.
This is to cut costs (and prices), and make it available rather quickly. So no ADC (is quite logical).
This specific card is not AGP 8x compatible. We all know that even a AGP 4x bus wil not be stretched with today's games and CPUs, but numbers do sell....
Meaning; If you buy a G5 (with AGP 8x bus), but install a Retail 9800 card, the bus will be AGP 4x only: Bad marketing.

Somehow the OEM card is very different form the Retail one.

Retail:
AGP 2x, 4x
VGA + DVI
Supports ATi 3D override settings
Core Clock 380 MHz

OEM (G5);
AGP 8x
DVI + ADC
No support for override sttings
Core Clock 350 MHz

In the system profiler both are stated as "ATY R350, with 128 MB VRAM"

I still don't understand why....

I don't expect a firmware update or so to "up" the clock frequency. And the software used for the cards are identical, unless the 3D override settings are used.

But, I don't mind....

I love the G5 :)

Get one, Sabbath!

[yamabushi]

Not a very impressive update. Where are the Radeon 9800 XT and FireGL X2 256t? Both of these cards use chipsets very similar to the 9800 Pro so developing Mac versions of them can't be that difficult.

[job]

Originally posted by yamabushi
Not a very impressive update. Where are the Radeon 9800 XT and FireGL X2 256t? Both of these cards use chipsets very similar to the 9800 Pro so developing Mac versions of them can't be that difficult.

What's the clock speed of the 9800XT?

Honestly, with the release of this 'Special Edition' I think we now have the Mac version of the 9800XT.

[MrMacMan]

why make it exclusive?

Why?

WHY?

:(

“Now Macintosh game enthusiasts and digital content professionals who’ve been clamoring for a RADEON 9800 based upgrade card that offers direct ADC support and 256 MB of memory will be satisfied,” said ...“ATI’s new 256MB RADEON 9800 PRO Mac Special Edition delivers the stunningly fast, high end graphics that fully maximize the powerful capabilities of the Power Mac G5.”

How about NOT EVERYONE HAS THE G5!

Give the rest of us a chance to upgrade!

errr

:mad:

[job]

because the retail 9800 doesn't have adc?

and maybe the G5 users want a 9800 with an adc port and the normal clock speed (380Mhz vs 350Mhz?)

look at it this way, G5 users had two options:

1. take a hit in clock speed just to have an adc port (BTO OEM 9800 Pro)

2. buy the retail 9800 Pro and have the normal clock speed, but loose the adc port.

with the new card, G5 users now have a viable, albeit expensive option to have both adc and the normal clock speed.

of course, one could always buy a dvi-to-adc adapter, but that's neither here nor there.

i've also heard rumors that ati will release the 9600 pro as a stand alone card that will work in older G4 towers as well as the G5.

[Veldek]

Originally posted by job
What's the clock speed of the 9800XT?

Honestly, with the release of this 'Special Edition' I think we now have the Mac version of the 9800XT.

That's not true. The clock speed of a Radeon 9800XT is 412MHz, so we still haven't got the best graphics card out there.

[job]

Originally posted by Veldek
That's not true. The clock speed of a Radeon 9800XT is 412MHz, so we still haven't got the best graphics card out there.

With the release of the SE, I think that's as good as it's going to get. Why would ATi release a Mac version of the 9800XT when they just released the SE? Would another version of the 9800, albeit faster one, be worth the effort? If they were going to release a Mac version of the XT, then I don't think they would have released the SE.

[Tiauguinho]

I would love to get one! But that price tag really scares the hell out of me! I could seriously use the 256MB of VRAM for X-plane.

[Dont Hurt Me]

from what i have seen all the 9800s are a hair away from each other performance wise. Adc is the main thing and i would bet on seeing a 9600 Adc pro soon for mac. and yes i have a Adc monitor.:cool: I wonder what Apples monitor sales look like? How many Adc monitors are in use?

[Mr. Anderson]

Just having the 256 Meg will be enough for me. 3D modeling and animation will improve oh so much and I won't have to worry about complex scenes as much.

I really hope this gets shipped on the new G5 when they're out :D

D

[yamabushi]

Originally posted by job
What's the clock speed of the 9800XT?

Honestly, with the release of this 'Special Edition' I think we now have the Mac version of the 9800XT.

This is from an article at Sharky Extreme (http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/videocards/article.php/3101801)

"The Radeon 9800 XT ships at defaults of 412 MHz core and 730 MHz DDR memory clock speeds, and the ATI OverDrive feature extends this even further (up to a 460 MHz core speed, according ATI white papers). This is an automatic, on-demand overclocking technology that uses variables such as core and case temperature, GPU load, etc. and provides automatic core speed increases. This is different than constant overclock settings, as the ATI drivers actively monitor and adjust core speeds due to the above-mentioned variables, and there is no facility to permanently select a set speed. We've used the SUV analogy before, but it still fits quite well, and ATI's OverDrive is quite similar to on-demand 4-wheel drive, where the feature enables when needed, but cannot be directly controlled. "

The 9800 XT with Overdrive appears to perform overall about 10% better than a 9800 Pro. The ATI standard cooling design for the card also appears to be much improved from the 9800 Pro.

[Kingsfoil13]

Does anyone know when this card will be released? The press release on the ATI website says "end of january" but that has come and gone. The ATI customer service rep I contacted referred me to the existing 9800 Pro Mac Edition, and hasn't returned my e-mail since. No retailers seem to know anything.

[The Dreaming]

Is this card 8x AGP?

[silver6x]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
from what i have seen all the 9800s are a hair away from each other performance wise. Adc is the main thing and i would bet on seeing a 9600 Adc pro soon for mac. and yes i have a Adc monitor.:cool: I wonder what Apples monitor sales look like? How many Adc monitors are in use?

i've got a radeon 9600 G5 edition in my quicksilver G4 (http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/silver6x/images/9600G4.jpg) hooked up with ADC right now *chuckles*

[hvfsl]

I dont know if this has been posted already, but there is no point in getting anything faster than a Geforce 4Ti in G4 Macs because they are not fast enough to take advantage of anything faster. Putting a Radeon9700 or 9800 in a G4 will make it faster, but the difference in speed over the Geforce4Ti is not worth the extra money.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Originally posted by silver6x
i've got a radeon 9600 G5 edition in my quicksilver G4 (http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/silver6x/images/9600G4.jpg) hooked up with ADC right now *chuckles* please dont rub it in. the last G4 adc card was a geforce4 titanium and that was 2 years ago? but from the benches i have read the G4 cant even push those cards so i guess there isnt much incentive to make better cards for G4. and a 9800 doesnt really make the G4 faster it allows higher resolutions with out loosing those frame rates compared to lesser cards so at 800 x 600 no difference but go higher and the 9800 maintains those frames while a fx5200 drops big time.

[silver6x]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
please dont rub it in. the last G4 adc card was a geforce4 titanium and that was 2 years ago? but from the benches i have read the G4 cant even push those cards so i guess there isnt much incentive to make better cards for G4. and a 9800 doesnt really make the G4 faster it allows higher resolutions with out loosing those frame rates compared to lesser cards so at 800 x 600 no difference but go higher and the 9800 maintains those frames while a fx5200 drops big time.
hey it wasn't a walk in the park to get the 9600 to work, there were pins to cover up, and some soldering for the adc power since the connector on the card has moved to accommodate the g5's long agp pro slot. in any case it was worth it since it beats the pants off my old geforce 4 mx. well actually i mostly got the card to see the pretty pixel shading in halo. but yeah, for the record it's not terribly faster than before. i think a lot of that has to do with memory... because 256 isn't cutting it. then there's always my proccessor speed, but i plan to overclock it to 1133mhz when i get the guts.

[LoadRunner]

Even if you don't get a better fps, you should get a better image.

I really do not undersand why every one focusing on clock speed. New video cards are not about raw fps. They're about quolity of rendering.

9800: 107 Mio transisters, 412 MHz, 730 MHz DDR ram, MemBand 10.4 GB/s
GeFroce 4 ti: 63 Miotransisters, 300 MHz, 650 MHz DDR ram, MemBand 23.4 GB/s

[Dont Hurt Me]

hey i answered your message,anyways yeah you are right a 9800 can turn on all those things to make a prettier picture but i just wanted to make clear that those higher cards dont really give you higher frames unless you have more cpu to push them. lot of people think ill just throw in a newer faster video card and have faster frames but that isnt how it works. you have to feed the card to increase those frames.

[Kingsfoil13]

I (finally) got ahold of an ATI customer rep who said that the card would not be available until May or June. I wonder how this is related to rumors that the lengthening delays on the new G5s are related to waiting for new ATI cards...?

[Sabbath]

I (finally) got ahold of an ATI customer rep who said that the card would not be available until May or June. I wonder how this is related to rumors that the lengthening delays on the new G5s are related to waiting for new ATI cards...?

That is interesting, maybe it's just for the retail cards however, with them contracted to supply the first so many to apple. I can't see apple delaying the powermac updates that long just for these cards which are likely to be bto only anyway.

[Indiana Mac]

If only there was a way to shoe horn this in to my ibook...

Too bad ts for the G5 only, thought about talking my dad into putting in its G4 PowerMac(gaming while he's away)....

[aswitcher]

I (finally) got ahold of an ATI customer rep who said that the card would not be available until May or June. I wonder how this is related to rumors that the lengthening delays on the new G5s are related to waiting for new ATI cards...?

Mmm...release just in time for the WWDC.

[Mac Kiwi]

Not a very impressive update. Where are the Radeon 9800 XT and FireGL X2 256t? Both of these cards use chipsets very similar to the 9800 Pro so developing Mac versions of them can't be that difficult.


I would be very happy with Fire GL offerings as BTO as well,I doubt it will happen anytime soon though.



Can anyone tell me if the new Open GL fixes in the OS update are anything astonishing? {compared to the Mac windows Open GL gap I mean}

[ZildjianKX]

I understand that the Retail card is just a Mac-ready version of the "normal" PC-version of the Radeon 9800 Pro. Seemingly only a ROM-update (flash) to make it Mac ready.
This is to cut costs (and prices), and make it available rather quickly. So no ADC (is quite logical).

Actually there is one physical difference between the mac and PC versions of the Radeon 9800 Pro... they actually put a larger ROM chip (1 meg) on the mac version and 256 k on the PC version... there is an awesome article going around the net (I forget from who and I'm a bit lazy to look it up now) about how to convert a PC version to a mac version... incredible amount of work to swap ROM chips... and very easy to scrap your cards.

[Kingsfoil13]

http://www.macintoshgamer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=266

This post seems to imply something coming down the pipe...

[aswitcher]

http://www.macintoshgamer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=266

This post seems to imply something coming down the pipe...

Yes, how nice would that be... :D

[Rezet]

I got my retail 9800 Pro for my mac for $268.44 (tax and shipping included) brand new and sealed. :p
And no, it's not ebay. A store. :D :p :cool:

[aswitcher]

I got my retail 9800 Pro for my mac for $268.44 (tax and shipping included) brand new and sealed. :p
And no, it's not ebay. A store. :D :p :cool:

Well I just found it locally but at $950 AUD I don't think its going to be a fast mover...yikes... :eek:

[naodx]

Rezet,

Is this somewhere where other people can purchase this? I'd be interested, and that is the best price I've seen for the card yet.

Please let us know.

[Rezet]

it's no secret. I bought it at www.buy.com
It was priced at $295 or so. And a week before they sent me a 10% off coupon in the email. Thats pretty much all the trick to it.
it still is about 295 bucks on buy.com right now and you can get free shipping as well as u dont pay tax as long as you don't live in CA.

[naodx]

Rezet,

Yes I seen the price on buy.com, and it is a good price. But what you paid sounded even better. :D

I just wish I had the 10% off you had.....

[Rezet]

Rezet,

Yes I seen the price on buy.com, and it is a good price. But what you paid sounded even better. :D

I just wish I had the 10% off you had.....

Well, I wasn't shopping there for a while with this account, so maybe that's why they gave me the coupon... :confused: :)

[yamabushi]

I wonder if this might become the card included in the base configuration for G5 Powermacs after the next revision? :) Of course that would imply that even more powerful cards (X800?) might become available shortly thereafter as a BTO or retail product.

[Converted2Truth]

The retail version of the 9800 pro requires some jimmy rigging because it needs a power connection (which must come from the cd drive in a G5). But I think the OEM version of the card does not have this extra power connection requirement. Maybe they had to clock the card down so it could run on just standard bus power supplied by the AGP slot (OEM g5).

[benpatient]

yes, they did.

it's clocked down something like 10-15%.

there is another thread with the details on all the 9800's that are available for a mac and what the differences are between them.

[Converted2Truth]

I don't understand what ATI is doing taking their time with the mac release of the 9800 pro se. The 9800 w/256 has been out on the PC for ages. According to the press release article at ATI's website, this card was intended to come out much earlier. And it will be just my luck this card will be a BTO option only... so i'll be stuck watching ebay for one. Where is nvidia in the meantime? ...they're busy spanking the shiznit out of ATI with the new geForce 6800! Which i might add, is compatible with Apple products (if they ever make it available). Check out the Halo stats on ati 9800xt vs. nvidia 6800 at 1600x1200 w/fsaa and all the other goodies:

Nvidia smokes ATI (http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/index.html)

Nvidia 6800 Mac Compatibility (http://www.nvidia.com/page/pg_20040406661996.html)

Nvidia rocks... :eek:

[Rezet]

I don't understand what ATI is doing taking their time with the mac release of the 9800 pro se. The 9800 w/256 has been out on the PC for ages. According to the press release article at ATI's website, this card was intended to come out much earlier. And it will be just my luck this card will be a BTO option only... so i'll be stuck watching ebay for one. Where is nvidia in the meantime? ...they're busy spanking the shiznit out of ATI with the new geForce 6800! Which i might add, is compatible with Apple products (if they ever make it available). Check out the Halo stats on ati 9800xt vs. nvidia 6800 at 1600x1200 w/fsaa and all the other goodies:

Nvidia smokes ATI (http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/index.html)

Nvidia 6800 Mac Compatibility (http://www.nvidia.com/page/pg_20040406661996.html)

Nvidia rocks... :eek:

No doubt 6800 is faster than 9800ati. But Ati is working on X800 video card which will challenge 6800. I have 9800Pro retail and i do feel that sometimes it doesnt provide enough power for me. SE will be no improvement. So, I'll pay close attention to 6800 when and if it is released for mac.

[Ozi]

yup... the X800 whoops the 6800 in all the tests so far, and with a lower power requirement!

I agree, they need to release it soon, or too many people will buy the 6800 rather than wait for the ATI offering. However, it looks worth the wait! :)

[DocSponge]

Somehow I managed to get shipped a Radeon 9800 Pro Special Edition...only problem is that I don't have proper drivers. :( So while the normal Radeon drivers in Panther allow the card to be recognized and run under the OS certain things like the ATI Utilities do not recognize the card (and yes, I have downloaded the 4.2.5 version updated May 5th). Tiger Woods 2003 won't even start with DirectX reporting that there is not enough Video Memory to run the game.

So it appears that I will most likely have to wait until the official release to even use properly.

[thatwendigo]

Where is nvidia in the meantime? ...they're busy spanking the shiznit out of ATI with the new geForce 6800! Which i might add, is compatible with Apple products (if they ever make it available). Check out the Halo stats on ati 9800xt vs. nvidia 6800 at 1600x1200 w/fsaa and all the other goodies:

...

Nvidia rocks... :eek:

What you don't seem to realize is that nVidea classes most of their products as "mac compatible," and yet never releases drivers for most of them. That the card can theoretically be addressed by OS X capable machines with an AGP 8x slot means nothing until the drivers are there.

Also, the new R420-based ATI x800 spanks the NV6800 on heat, core and memory clock, cost to performance, and almost all benchmarks (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2044)

When it came time to test, nVidia rushed a newer, overclocked 6800 to the testers. It still lost, and is going to cost more.

[Pegano]

Not only do the benches show ATi as the clear performance winner (especially when enabling FSAA and AF), but the new ATi cards appear to be much more energy efficient than the nVidia line. Besides, ATi's doesn't take 2 whole freakin' slots and doesn't have a monster fan to blow all the dust-bunnies off your desk.

[Pegano]

I also fail to understand why someone would become an nVidia fanboy over this one card, due to their reputation in the past of pretty well shafting Mac-ers. The only FX series card they made for mac was 5200. yuck

[MacsRgr8]

Somehow I managed to get shipped a Radeon 9800 Pro Special Edition...only problem is that I don't have proper drivers. :( So while the normal Radeon drivers in Panther allow the card to be recognized and run under the OS certain things like the ATI Utilities do not recognize the card (and yes, I have downloaded the 4.2.5 version updated May 5th). Tiger Woods 2003 won't even start with DirectX reporting that there is not enough Video Memory to run the game.

So it appears that I will most likely have to wait until the official release to even use properly.

You got the Mac edition of that card? :cool:

But DirectX does not run on Macs. These games are all OpenGL.
Still very strange the 4.2.5 version of the ATi Utilities don't seem to recognize the card.

[DocSponge]

You got the Mac edition of that card? :cool:

But DirectX does not run on Macs. These games are all OpenGL.
Still very strange the 4.2.5 version of the ATi Utilities don't seem to recognize the card.

I was pretty suprised. I had ordered the 9800 Pro and got this instead.

As for the error message I did a grab of the Tiger Woods 2003 error window. I would be curious to better understand what that means exactly. There is a tool called MacDX to allow DirectX games to be ported to Mac.

[MacsRgr8]

I was pretty suprised. I had ordered the 9800 Pro and got this instead.

As for the error message I did a grab of the Tiger Woods 2003 error window. I would be curious to better understand what that means exactly. There is a tool called MacDX to allow DirectX games to be ported to Mac.

If it really is the Mac edition (which it supposedly is, otherwise the card wouldn't work at all - me thinks - :confused: ), you have something very special there! Very cool!

I have heard of MacDX too, but that will only help gaming developers (or porters) port DirectX games to OpenGL, if they haven't come up with their own tool.
But maybe that error-message came straight out of the original DirectX version.... not translated into an OpenGL error-message ;)
Do other games work at all?? And if so, really good?

[daleslad]

Hi all, I've been reading all of your posts regarding video cards for the Mac and I'm still no wiser as to which card I should get.
First let me tell you I'm an old codger but love playing war games especially MOH Spearhead. I've been quite satisfied with my computer's performance until a few days ago when the servers I like to play on added loads of mods to the games. Since then I've been getting major crashes and on one map that was heavily modded my screen turned yellow. I was told it was because of my video card and I should upgrade it and that's when my troubles started, upgrade it to what??
I have a 1.25 Ghz, DP, G4 with 512 MRam and the card I'm using now is the NVDA GeForce4Ti 4600, 128 vram. I use a Viewsonic 19 inch VGA monitor.
I have both system 9 & X loaded but usually play my games on system 9. I've tried playing the game on X but find that I have problems with the mouse speed and a halo effect around objects on the map. I've tried adjusting for the halo effect but couldn't quite get rid of it. I never could adjust my mouse speed to where I liked it so I stayed with system 9.

I would really, really appreciate some help with suggestions etc. for a card upgrade from you young-uns.

[MacsRgr8]

There really is only one upgrade for the G4 if you have a GeForce 4 Ti 4600... and that's the Radeon 9800 Pro Retail Mac edition.
I too have a Dual 1.25 GHz G4 (the FW 800 version, so no OS 9), and have had 4 different grfx cards in it:
Radeon 8500
Radeon 9000 (OEM)
GeForce 4 Ti 4600
Radeon 9800 Pro Retail

One other difference is that I have installed 1.5 GB of RAM.... can also help ;)

The Radeon 9800 Pro is the best grfx card. Especially the 3D override features for gaming in Mac OS X is excellent!

But the card does NOT support Mac OS 9!

My findings in short:
Radeon 8500 and 9000 are quite similar (there are some hardware differences on the card, but with the games I played I noticed no difference).
nVidia GeForce 4 ti 4600 was faster than the 8500 and 9000, but had some ugly visual artifacts in MOHAA and Spearhead..... Overall NOT worth the extra $$$
The Radeon 9800 Pro made all games I play look good: Nascar 2003, F1 2000 CS, MOHAA, Spearhead, RTCW, Tiger Woods 2003. I really love the 3D override feature (see attachment) to make the games look great even on lower resolutions.
Today's games are G4-CPU speed limited, and you can consider the 9800 Pro a bit "overkill" for a (Dual) G4. But I was lucky enough to be able to "trade" my Geforce Ti for it, and I am very, very pleased. With the 9800 you can up the resolution, or turn on the 3D override features on the same games, but don't expect a dramatic increase in FPS in every game. Sure MOHAA will get some increase (say, 5 FPS extra), but the games which are already CPU speed limited can be made look better using this card. That was the real benefit IMHO.
It all depends on $$$. Can you get a decent price for the GeForce? Is the Radeon 9800 Pro affordable?
Will you be needing Mac OS 9 3D support??

Good luck!

[MacsRgr8]

BTW, I found an earlier review of mine here (http://www.chaosmint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37533)

Maybe it'll help you too. :)

[daleslad]

Thanks MacsRgr8, you really know your stuff with these cards. That's a lot of information to read and absorb but if I'm getting the gist of it I think I am stuck with the card I've got if I want to continue to use the DP computer that I have now.
The Radeon 9800 Pro Retail Mac edition seems like it would be the card to get but if it doesn't work with sys. 9 then there is no point in getting it. I don't suppose I would be able to install 2 cards would I. That way I could use the Radeon 9800 Pro Retail Mac edition for my system X and keep my old card for system 9.
Many thanks again for all of your help.

[MacsRgr8]

I don't suppose I would be able to install 2 cards would I. That way I could use the Radeon 9800 Pro Retail Mac edition for my system X and keep my old card for system 9.


I'm afraid not. You would need 2 AGP slots to be able to install those two grfx cards, and the Mac has only one. You could get a PCI grfx card (ATi Radeon 7000 PCI or ATi Rage 128 PCI or so) to go along with the 9800, but that would be pretty expensive.

So, if you want to use Mac OS 9, then the GeForce 4 Ti would be your best option.

Happy gaming!

[daleslad]

I think I read in one of your older posts something about the Nvidia card causing a problem with the colour in the games in OS X. I've noticed that too when I play Spearhead on OS X the edges of the buildings etc. will have a coloured tinge to it. It seems to worse when viewed from a distance and tweaking on the video controls in the game controls doesn't seem to help much.

Do you know of a fix for that other than changing my card to something else. If the only fix is to change cards what would be a comparable one for me to get.
Thanks again for all of your suggestions.

[geeeeeFive]

I believe these cards are now shipping :D . I can't afford one anyway :( so here is the info.
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10363495&loc=101&sp=1

or
http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=406051


If the link doesn't work, just do a search on buy.com or MacMall for Radeon Special Edition.

Maybe since Apple released the new Panther Update with new drivers?!?

[Lord Blackadder]

They are finally shipping...now that the x800 is out. Doh! Still, who can complain about the performance boost?

[MacsRgr8]

I think I read in one of your older posts something about the Nvidia card causing a problem with the colour in the games in OS X. I've noticed that too when I play Spearhead on OS X the edges of the buildings etc. will have a coloured tinge to it. It seems to worse when viewed from a distance and tweaking on the video controls in the game controls doesn't seem to help much.

Do you know of a fix for that other than changing my card to something else. If the only fix is to change cards what would be a comparable one for me to get.
Thanks again for all of your suggestions.

I don't think there is a fix for that..... Maybe new nVidia drivers or an update of the game (version 1.14 is I think the latest update of MOHAA) could hopefully correct the problem.

Not much hope, I'm afraid :(

[MacsRgr8]

I believe these cards are now shipping :D

Maybe since Apple released the new Panther Update with new drivers?!?

Gr8 to know they are finally shipping!
I wonder how the performance boost would be compare to the OEM Radeon 9800 in a Dual G5.

I wonder if DocSponge has it working fine now, running 10.3.4? Would be nice to know. :)

[daleslad]

I don't think there is a fix for that..... Maybe new nVidia drivers or an update of the game (version 1.14 is I think the latest update of MOHAA) could hopefully correct the problem.

Not much hope, I'm afraid :(

I've got all of the latest updates for AA and SH so not much help there I'm afraid. I am trying to find out about any driver updates for my card but I'm not finding much info. out there for the mac.

[Studio Dweller]

Somehow I managed to get shipped a Radeon 9800 Pro Special Edition...only problem is that I don't have proper drivers. :( So while the normal Radeon drivers in Panther allow the card to be recognized and run under the OS certain things like the ATI Utilities do not recognize the card (and yes, I have downloaded the 4.2.5 version updated May 5th). Tiger Woods 2003 won't even start with DirectX reporting that there is not enough Video Memory to run the game.

So it appears that I will most likely have to wait until the official release to even use properly.

One thing I've been very anxious to find out is if the 9800 Pro Special Edition also intrudes on the adjacent PCI slot like the BTO 9800XT does which is available for the new G5s. I am planning on buying a new G5, but can't afford to lose a PCI slot. Could you tell me if this is the case?

Thanks.

[Kingsfoil13]

Well, now that the new G5s have the 9800XT as a BTO option .... all of this is kindof moot.

Sigh. I'm STILL using a stock 9600 that came with my dual 2.0 G5.

[ZildjianKX]

One thing I've been very anxious to find out is if the 9800 Pro Special Edition also intrudes on the adjacent PCI slot like the BTO 9800XT does which is available for the new G5s. I am planning on buying a new G5, but can't afford to lose a PCI slot. Could you tell me if this is the case?

Thanks.

It most likely will, but it's impossible to really know until someone sees one. If you don't need the ADC, the difference between the 9800 Pro SE and the 9800 Pro is very negligible. Check out the PC reviews between the two sometime.