No President has ever done more for human rights than I have.

[SPG]

Now who do you think said that?
·After Auletta observed an Oval Office interview Bush gave to a British tabloid, he spoke with the President about a mutual friend, Tom Bernstein, a former co-owner, with Bush, of the Texas Rangers. Bernstein, a proponent of human rights, has often been criticized by liberal friends, for supporting the President. "Bernie is great," Bush said, and then added, "No President has ever done more for human rights than I have."
http://www.newyorker.com/press/content/

Context:
http://billmon.org/archives/000971.html

[zimv20]

****ing delusional, bush is.

i'm now back on my 'bush is a sociopath' kick.

[yamabushi]

Hunh? I can't see how he would really believe this.:confused:

[zimv20]

Originally posted by yamabushi
Hunh? I can't see how he would really believe this.:confused:

which? the alleged quote? or the sociopath part? if the former, it was in the New Yorker...

[wwworry]

I think he's hitting the sauce again.

[Desertrat]

As near as I can tell, the Congress and the Administration all believe that the Patriot Act is a Good Thing. They also believe the present system of "airport security" is not only proper, but we're really, really safer without our fingernail clippers.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that about all Dubya was thinking of is how Iraq will become a Truly Wonderful Place To Be, and in that context he's feeling all warm and snuggly about being a Good Guy.

Scary.

'Rat

[zimv20]

Originally posted by wwworry
I think he's hitting the sauce again.

a couple more beers and we'll be hearing "human rights has such a pretty face"

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by Desertrat
As near as I can tell, the Congress and the Administration all believe that the Patriot Act is a Good Thing. They also believe the present system of "airport security" is not only proper, but we're really, really safer without our fingernail clippers.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that about all Dubya was thinking of is how Iraq will become a Truly Wonderful Place To Be, and in that context he's feeling all warm and snuggly about being a Good Guy.

Scary.

'Rat

'Rat, I think you're right. Trouble is he has all these people around him puffing up his "High Noon" - Will Kane fantasy of his role in the world he is starting to believe it. Next thing you know he start really believing he's from Texas.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by Sayhey
Next thing you know he start really believing he's from Texas.

Or got elected.

Or has a mandate.

Or actually runs the show.

[Desertrat]

While there are exceptions, maybe, any president is pretty much at the mercy of his advisors. Witness Carter and Bert Lance and the horrible effects on the economy from policy decisions.

That's why, to me, it's almost more important to consider who's coming into power WITH a presidential candidate than the particular candidate, his or her ownself. Same for governor, for that matter.

I'm more familiar with this at the state level, insofar as any personal experience. For instance, I knew Ann Richards long before she became governor. Canoed a few river trips, BSed over a few beers; not close, but certainly acquainted. I also knew her as County Commissioner in my precinct. Ann would have been a much more effective governor, and probably could have beaten Dubya, had she not had the political debts from getting elected to her first term. She pretty much was forced to bring on board some real idiots, from a "political philosophy in Texas" standpoint.

'Rat

[SPG]

Originally posted by Desertrat
While there are exceptions, maybe, any president is pretty much at the mercy of his advisors.

You could argue that everyone is then a product of their surroundings as well, but there is still a person inside of that influence.
I've noticed that as many of the policies that come out of this administration are becoming harder and harder to defend in the light of reason and honesty, that many of the Bush supporters have started to make negative comments about the staff to try to maintain their belief in "the man".
I am not so charitable to think that what is going on is solely the effect of advisors and cabinet members. If it is than this man has no business being president.

[Desertrat]

"I am not so charitable to think that what is going on is solely the effect of advisors and cabinet members."

No argument. Still, it's a package deal, El Prez and his advisors. Sure, there's a predisposition to listen to the advisors' views, which is why they were selected in the first place. I just don't see various schemes springing fullblown from one man's brain...

'Rat

[IJ Reilly]

Presidential advisors aren't born to the job, they are appointed by the President, so if he's surrounded with controlling/manipulative/dishonest advisors, that's his doing and nobody else's. Further, each and every president has their own management style -- some are far more engaged in policy-making then others. According to O'Neill at least, this president chooses to be disengaged.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
this president chooses to be disengaged.

an early entry for understatement of the year.

good god, the man doesn't even read newspapers! many people (o'neill and ivins, off the top of my head) have described him as man lacking curiosity. for me, that's a certain kind of intellectual laziness that can't be tolerated in a leadership position.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by zimv20
an early entry for understatement of the year.

Well, if Paul O'Neill is to be believed -- and personally, I do. On that front, I found this little piece in my daily paper this morning. I'm always amused by the use of the word "disappointing" to describe somebody who makes inconvenient or embarrassing statements, because it sounds so much like the disapproving parent who can't say why a child should not have said or done something, but would rather they hadn't just the same.

heney Calls Ex-Friend O'Neill a 'Big Disappointment'

By Maura Reynolds, Times Staff Writer

In a new book about the Bush administration, former Treasury Secretary Paul H. O'Neill describes Vice President Dick Cheney as a leader of a "praetorian guard" around the president, cutting him off from dissenting opinions.

In his first public comments on the book, "The Price of Loyalty," by journalist Ron Suskind, Cheney described O'Neill as "a big disappointment."

"I was a big advocate of his, without question. And it's turned out to be a big disappointment," Cheney said in an interview with the Los Angeles Times and USA Today. "It's too bad. I wish it hadn't turned out that way."

Cheney had long ties to O'Neill, having worked with him in the Nixon and Ford administrations, when O'Neill was a top official at the Office of Management and Budget. It was Cheney who recommended O'Neill for the job of Treasury secretary, and it was Cheney who in 2002 told O'Neill he was fired.

"I like Paul; I've known him for 30 years. We were friends. The relationship is a little strained now, partly because I also had to give him the word that his services were no longer needed," Cheney said.

Cheney said O'Neill was picked as Treasury secretary because he had years of corporate experience as the chief executive of Alcoa, as well as an encyclopedic knowledge of the federal budget. But in the end, Cheney said, O'Neill didn't mesh with the rest of the White House.

"It's one of those things that happens periodically. You put a round peg in a square hole, and it didn't work," he said.

"This was a case where, clearly, it wasn't working, it was time to make a change, so we made the change."

"Paul has had his say," Cheney added. "I disagree with his analysis, obviously. But he's had his day. I feel badly for him, to some extent, that he has ended his career on this note. That's his choice."

The interview was conducted Thursday under a White House embargo that ended today.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/whitehouse/la-na-oneill19jan19,1,7210402.story

So little Paulie was a bad boy.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly

Cheney:
I feel badly for him, to some extent, that he has ended his career on this note.



well that's a tad creepy.

[mactastic]

That part about how he 'ended his career' sounds rather ominous. I thought lots of these type of people went on the even more lucrative private sector jobs, or the became lobbyists.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by zimv20


well that's a tad creepy.

This White House has made if very clear that they punish those that don't do as they are told. It all is very creepy. How many remember Nixon's enemies list?

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Sayhey
This White House has made if very clear that they punish those that don't do as they are told. It all is very creepy. How many remember Nixon's enemies list?
Well enough to recall Dan Schorr who worked for CBS news at the time (IRRC) breaking the story by reading the list of Nixon enemies. He hadn't reviewed the list before he was called upon to read it live on the air, so he didn't realize until that very moment that it included his own name, which he read without missing a beat. Beware the blowing of a chill wind.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Well enough to recall Dan Schorr who worked for CBS news at the time (IRRC) breaking the story by reading the list of Nixon enemies. He hadn't reviewed the list before he was called upon to read it live on the air, so he didn't realize until that very moment that it included his own name, which he read without missing a beat. Beware the blowing of a chill wind.

Ok, here is a political trivia quiz for today. Which of the Democratic candidates was on Nixon's enemies list and why did he make it?

[mactastic]

Originally posted by Sayhey
Ok, here is a political trivia quiz for today. Which of the Democratic candidates was on Nixon's enemies list and why did he make it?

John Kerry for his anti-war activities during Vietnam? My best guess since I'm not old enough to remember firsthand. ;)

[Desertrat]

"Hindsight's 20/20", and it's looking to me like Dubya asked, "Daddy, who do you reckon would be good in the Cabinet?" And Daddy said...

Anyhow, while I don't seem to have clearly stated what I was thinking,earlier, this comment from an above post seems illustrative: "O'Neill describes Vice President Dick Cheney as a leader of a "praetorian guard" around the president, cutting him off from dissenting opinions."

And, of course, an absence of dissent or opposition is what leads to dat ol' debbil, unintended consequences.

'Rat

[zimv20]

i'm not going to cut bush any slack because his chosen-by-him or chosen-for-him advisors may have misadvised.

if bush was a real leader, heads would have rolled and still be rolling for any number of things.

i'm no fan of nixon, but didn't he go out to talk to protesters in front of the WH? are protesters even allowed there anymore?

[mactastic]

Originally posted by zimv20
if bush was a real leader, heads would have rolled and still be rolling for any number of things.


Well, Paul O'Neil did get fired... ;)

But I doubt that's what you were hoping for.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Sayhey
Ok, here is a political trivia quiz for today. Which of the Democratic candidates was on Nixon's enemies list and why did he make it?

None, on the "top twenty" hit list, AFAIK. Nearly every prominent Democrat at the time was on the extended political enemies list, though -- including Kennedy, Mondale and McGovern.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by mactastic
John Kerry for his anti-war activities during Vietnam? My best guess since I'm not old enough to remember firsthand. ;)

You win the 5 brownie points for the correct answer to today's quiz. John Kerry was a leading activist for peace, as one of the founders of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), and was on Nixon's enemies list. A badge of honor in my book.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Sayhey
You win the 5 brownie points for the correct answer to today's quiz. John Kerry was a leading activist for peace, as one of the founders of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), and was on Nixon's enemies list. A badge of honor in my book.

Are you sure? I can't find Kerry on what seems like a comprehensive accounting of the enemies list:

http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~polisci/calvert/PolSci3103/watergate/enemy.htm

[SPG]

Originally posted by Desertrat
No argument. Still, it's a package deal, El Prez and his advisors. Sure, there's a predisposition to listen to the advisors' views, which is why they were selected in the first place. I just don't see various schemes springing fullblown from one man's brain...


Therein lies the problem my friend.
Which of these best describes bush, and which is preferable?

A. The child king beholden to a powerful court working for it's own advantage.

B. The powerful king who understands his kingdom and makes his decisions accordingly.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Are you sure? I can't find Kerry on what seems like a comprehensive accounting of the enemies list:

http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~polisci/calvert/PolSci3103/watergate/enemy.htm

I'm fairly certain. I've not gone over the list, but Kerry has put this claim out a number of times. I remember him from the time period, although I never met him. I was active in antiwar activities at the time (not the VVAW, I'm not a veteran) and he was well known. Here is a Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml) series on Kerry and Part III focus on his time in the antiwar movement and the Nixon WH targeting of him.

Day after day, according to the tapes and memos, Nixon aides worried that Kerry was a unique, charismatic leader who could undermine support for the war. Other veteran protesters were easier targets, with their long hair, their use of a Viet Cong flag, and in some cases, their calls for overthrowing the US government. Kerry, by contrast, was a neat, well-spoken, highly decorated veteran who seemed to be a clone of former President John F. Kennedy, right down to the military service on a patrol boat.

The White House feared him like no other protester.

Colson, in a secret memo, revealed he had a mission to target Kerry: "Destroy the young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph Nader."

The effort by Nixon and his aides to undermine Kerry went much deeper than even Kerry realized. Yet it is this chapter in his life, as much as any other, that helped turn Kerry into a national political figure. By targeting Kerry, the Nixon White House boosted his stature in ways that still are having an impact.

But at the same time, many of the issues that Nixon and his aides raised more than 30 years ago about Kerry still remain. Echoes of Colson's words can still be heard in Washington: "He's politically ambitious and just looking for an issue, a phony."

Yet even Nixon described Kerry as an articulate and impressive spokesman. The Nixon White House began an investigation of Kerry. Who was he, the Nixonites wanted to know. What was his real motivation? And how could they stop him?

Now, you have piqued my interest to find out when if ever his name was added to old tricky Dick's "official" list. I’ll let you know what I find out.