PowerBooks on Feb 2nd?

[agentkow]

Originally posted by aswitcher
Last Laugh :)

Foiled again! Apple always gets that!

[Mr Maui]

Originally posted by woolf
no,no,no... there isn't going to be any updates til' later this year for those. it seems to me people on this site get all hyped up about something (ex. the ibox) then it never happens. I understand its not all going to happen but to a certain point you need to think logically. has apple ever released new products right around the super bowl? why would they do it now? apple never blows us away with lots of products in this short amount of time. it has only been a few weeks since macworld. i bet you nothing apple wont release a thing, but they may update their itms for the give away. the marketing strategie for apple is really predictable. apple always will hype stuff up before its released. apple only announces major new products twice a year. on one hand i like being able to enjoy my imac while its still the most recent , but on the other it seems apple is behind in releases compared to pc's. well maybe i'm just talking outa my az but you can be the one to decide. thats my story and im stickin to it!


I'd hardly call the iPod mini and GarageBand, huge introductions at MacWorld. It has been quite some time since significant upgrades to their computing product lines. And though I agree to the concept that Apple doesn't "normally" introduce things around the Superbowl, this is the 20th Anniversary since Apple's Superbowl announcement introducing the Macintosh, so this is a unique situation. Additionally, Steve Jobs loves the idea of keeping people guessing what he'll do next.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by agentkow
My 15" Powerbook will now officially arrive on Monday.

Does anyone know what this last spec means from my order page:

PBG4 15.2/1.25GHZ/1024/80/SD/AP/BL/LL

I know it was a 15.2" screen, is 1.25 Gigahertz, has 2 512 Megahertz RAM dudes, an 80 gig hard drive, a SuperDrive, Airport, and a backlit keyboard, but whats the "LL"? Hmmmm? L L
Did you buy:
AppleCare Protection Plan (APP) ?

If not, maybe they are wishing you
Lots of Luck after the 1st year. LL? :rolleyes:

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by Mr Maui
Steve Jobs loves the idea of keeping people guessing what he'll do next. Yes he does, a regular Barnum & Bailey Circus performer at times. ;)

"Oops! Sorry Disney, no more Pixar for you" :p

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by agentkow
My 15" Powerbook will now officially arrive on Monday.

SNIP... but whats the "LL"?

Thanks in advance, everyone here is so darn helpful.

Are you young, male and single - and a geek - then its pretty clear that apple know that this baby is your "Love Life" ;) :)

[agentkow]

I did get the Apple Care Protection Plan, but it was shipped separately, has already arrived, and looks like this on my order:

APP FOR POWERBOOK-E/K-USA

As for my Love Life, I'm already married, so perhaps its that custom Lava Lamp I added to the configuration?

There was those rumours about the mac that had the ability to change colours and stuff...

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by agentkow
I did get the Apple Care Protection Plan...
"LL"? perhaps its that custom Lava Lamp I added to the configuration?

There were those rumours about a Mac with the ability to change colours and stuff...

[Marc the Mac]

What does LL mean?

It means 'Lost Latch', apparently they will ship it on the 21st anniversary - when it will be plated with moon dust.

[jade]

Originally posted by Mr.kr

Please be aware that I'm not asking for your speculation on when updates are coming (though feel free), no one can know that for sure, just what it was like before updates last time.

TIA,

--
Kary Rogers
My Apple Store experience (http://www.kmrogers.net/mt/archives/000003.html)

The 15" powerbooks were rumnored in January 03 with updates expected in March...and the arrived in October!!!!!!!

[jade]

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I would think you should call Apple. Anything ordered after 1/6 should have shipped with the latest version.

Unless, it was a refurb. I don't think those rules apply.

Ilife will ship in models starting February 04! Not any sooner.

[dryvlee]

Originally posted by jade
Ilife will ship in models starting February 04! Not any sooner.

What is the source of your claim? SJ last keynote mentioned that iLife 4 would ship on 16 Jan 04.

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by dryvlee
What is the source of your claim? SJ last keynote mentioned that iLife 4 would ship on 16 Jan 04.

According to the Apple website (http://www.apple.com/ilife/uptodate/) if you purchased a computer after Jan. 6, 2004 that did not come with iLife '04 you can get it for a discount ($19.95).

I can't find anywhere where it says when new computers will start shipping with it, but since the discount ends on March 26 I would assume it is before that.

[maclamb]

I just bought a ibook 933 at an apple store and iLife 04 came in the box.

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by maclamb
I just bought a ibook 933 at an apple store and iLife 04 came in the box.

I wonder, was yours BTO or just a standard config. Maybe you get lucky if they have to open the box anyhow, but if the don't then you end up paying the $19.95 to get it.
No matter what the explination, it seems odd that it is hit or miss whether you are going to get it for free if you order a computer right now.

[maclamb]

i bought stock one - "off the shelf" as it were.
Also, it was a "refresh" - had been opened and brought back - saved me 10% and I didn't have the joy of being first. Not a biggie - I've done that a few times with macs already -perosnally I'd rather save the $

[maclamb]

come to think of it - I know I read that all machines AFTER Jan 16th should come with iLife 04.

[agentkow]

When i ordered my Powerbook back on the 14th, the Apple guy assured me it would come with the new iLife.

[maclamb]

Originally posted by MacRAND
Yes he does, a regular Barnum & Bailey Circus performer at times. ;)

"Oops! Sorry Disney, no more Pixar for you" :p
And Steve probanly didn't say "Sorry":p

[maclamb]

Originally posted by MacRAND


When is there going to be a G5 book, no one knows. I'm personally not betting on the end of this year, so I'd be shocked if there was a March 2004 release. And, I'm not going to be a Guinea Pig as an early adopter for some pretty radical new technology that's got to go into any new G5 PowerBook. Let the tech and the cost stew a bit in the market place before jumping in with blind faith and $3000. :cool:
Thank you - well said - and I agree totoaly about not being an early adopter of new Arch Pb like the G5 - I've worked for and with large sw/hw companies (oracle, NeXT, Apple and *I* wouldn't spend a lot of time and money on a .0 release...
Not that there's anything wrong with being an early adopter - BTDT - Newton, for example as a developer and user, ok fine take one for the team and to help a new idea/technology. - ipod, for example -
but a G5 in a PB - by March, be REAL surprised and no - I'll sit with my new ibook and watch from the sidelines for that one - Sure - would sell the ibook on ebay and upgrade to a g5 PB at some poiunt - but not first out.

[BagelTycoon]

Originally posted by agentkow
When i ordered my Powerbook back on the 14th, the Apple guy assured me it would come with the new iLife.

At MWSF, Steve said that all new machines would be shipping with iLife.

From what the folks on this thread are saying, it seems like Apple's definition of 'new' takes on a whole new meaning.

Pay $19.95 for iLife when Steve said it would be included? No way, dude.

Hold 'em to their word....

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
According to the Apple website (http://www.apple.com/ilife/uptodate/) if you purchased a computer after Jan. 6, 2004 that did not come with iLife '04 you can get it for a discount ($19.95).

Right. This is why I found it "mildly annoying" and not worse that my wife's PB didn't come with it.

I can't find anywhere where it says when new computers will start shipping with it, but since the discount ends on March 26 I would assume it is before that.

I think the official Apple policy is probably something like "when we run out of stock machines that have the old version". (I.e., no guarantees.) I knew when I ordered on the 16th that I was taking this risk (just as people who bought Macs after 10/24 didn't all get them with Panther preinstalled).

So I'll just order the iLife Up-to-Date and pay my $19.95 and not waste bile and rancor and phone time over an amount of money that's only slightly more than it costs me to get a pizza. (And I'll pony up another $50 to get a fresh copy of iLife '04 for my desktop machine too.)

I'm also not taking any bets over whether my new PB (which should arrive tomorrow) will have iLive '04 on it, even though my wife's (on the same invoice ordered at the same exact moment) didn't. Too many variables to bother guessing.

[Snowy_River]

You know, someone pointed out that with the original Mac, Apple had the announcement during the Superbowl, and then released the product on the next day... a monday. Now, this rumor is that there will be new PBs on Feb 2nd, right? But everyone complained that this isn't in line with Apple's Tuesday announcements...

Well, just suppose that's because the actual announcement's coming today during the SB...

Just a thought...

[kingtj]

Personally, I think this makes perfect sense. I don't quite understand all the uproar over iLife pricing.

So what if Jobs promised at the keynote that "all new systems will include it"? I'd take that to mean it's planned to start shipping with anything they package up after that date. Stores (retail or web based) usually have some existing stock of systems ordered earlier. Why do people expect someone to go around opening up every box to see what's in it, and adding free copies of iLife '04 if they're not in there?

I bought my PB 15" at the end of December '03, so I didn't even quite qualify for the $19.95 special. Big deal! I knew something like this might happen - and I could have opted to wait and buy my notebook later if it was that big a concern. Instead, I wanted to have it and start using it over the holidays (while I had some free time to get it all configured how I wanted it!).

I bought my iLife '04 at CompUSA, where they've been running a special to get $10 off on a piece of software if you sign up for AOL. $39.95 (and a little time to call and cancel with AOL afterwards) was more than a fair deal for GarageBand and all the other new iLife features!


Originally posted by Djehuti

So I'll just order the iLife Up-to-Date and pay my $19.95 and not waste bile and rancor and phone time over an amount of money that's only slightly more than it costs me to get a pizza. (And I'll pony up another $50 to get a fresh copy of iLife '04 for my desktop machine too.)

I'm also not taking any bets over whether my new PB (which should arrive tomorrow) will have iLive '04 on it, even though my wife's (on the same invoice ordered at the same exact moment) didn't. Too many variables to bother guessing.

[jade]

Originally posted by maclamb
I just bought a ibook 933 at an apple store and iLife 04 came in the box.

Was it pre-installed...or just thrown in on top of the box. Apple store employees are physically puttting the ilife disk in the box, for you to install.

Please see this note from Apple's website,




On January 6, 2004, Apple announced iLife '04, the next generation of Apple's award-winning suite of digital lifestyle applications. The new iLife '04 applications—iPhoto 4, iMovie 4, iDVD 4, iTunes 4.2, and GarageBand—will begin shipping with new Macs in early February.

Until that transition is complete, an iLife Up-To-Date upgrade package is available for a shipping and handling fee of $19.95 (US) to all customers who purchase a new Mac on or after January 6 that does not include iLife '04. For complete details about the program, please visit http://www.apple.com/ilife/uptodate/.

iLife '04 leads the industry in allowing consumers to easily organize their photos, manage their music collection, create movies, author DVDs, and now create music. If your customers purchase a new Mac without iLife '04, be sure to tell them about the iLife Up-To-Date package.

[neutrino23]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
You know, someone pointed out that with the original Mac, Apple had the announcement during the Superbowl, and then released the product on the next day... a monday. Now, this rumor is that there will be new PBs on Feb 2nd, right? But everyone complained that this isn't in line with Apple's Tuesday announcements...

Well, just suppose that's because the actual announcement's coming today during the SB...

Just a thought...

You know, that was 20 years ago. Things have changed. In recent history (about the last year or two) Apple has mostly released products on Tuesday.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by neutrino23
You know, that was 20 years ago. Things have changed. In recent history (about the last year or two) Apple has mostly released products on Tuesday.

Yes, and there was no Apple commercial during the SB. So, life goes on. Now we have to wait and see if tomorrow or Tuesday will hold anything special...

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Yes, and there was no Apple commercial during the SB. So, life goes on. Now we have to wait and see if tomorrow or Tuesday will hold anything special...

I can't imagine that Apple will bump the pepsi logos on the front page for a week or more, so sadly I think we will have to wait at least a week, likely a while longer...damn, I want a mac but I don't want to buy tech just before the bump and likely price drop...

[dryvlee]

Originally posted by jade
Was it pre-installed...or just thrown in on top of the box. Apple store employees are physically puttting the ilife disk in the box, for you to install.

Please see this note from Apple's website,




On January 6, 2004, Apple announced iLife '04, the next generation of Apple's award-winning suite of digital lifestyle applications. The new iLife '04 applications—iPhoto 4, iMovie 4, iDVD 4, iTunes 4.2, and GarageBand—will begin shipping with new Macs in early February.

Until that transition is complete, an iLife Up-To-Date upgrade package is available for a shipping and handling fee of $19.95 (US) to all customers who purchase a new Mac on or after January 6 that does not include iLife '04. For complete details about the program, please visit http://www.apple.com/ilife/uptodate/.

iLife '04 leads the industry in allowing consumers to easily organize their photos, manage their music collection, create movies, author DVDs, and now create music. If your customers purchase a new Mac without iLife '04, be sure to tell them about the iLife Up-To-Date package.


That's quite different from SJ's announcement/presentation. Anyway, my impresssin for the past few years is that the Sales staff normally manually add/update the new software before they give you the machine.

[themadchemist]

So here we are the beginning of the business day, Monday, February 2, 2004. There is time yet to surprise me, but I fear, my friends, that this will be another day of false hopes and disappointments, as yet again we realize that rumors were wrong and Apple has no new products for us.

I wasn't bitter on January 6th. No, I'm not buying my new computer until August anyway. But then again, I figured I'd see some action by the end of January, and that there would at least be a friggin' PowerMac speed bump for goodness sakes! And worse, the Powerbooks are hopelessly behind the times.

Apple was at the brink of something last June. It became strong in the hardware department again. But industry leader in June 2003 is market straggler in January 2004. Sure, there hasn't been THAT much development on the PC side, but things are starting to move, and Apple did not have much margin (if any) last June. The point was that the first G5 was supposed to give Apple a foothold, and with a stronger production stream from IBM, more frequent updates would boost the Mac hardware platform into clear superiority.

I don't see that and I'm dismayed. Could this be just another instance when Apple had great stuff on its hands but dropped the ball? I'll stick with our favorite company, but each blow is a little more depressing.

[johnnyjibbs]

Don't worry, I've got a feeling something's coming tomorrow... (Gut only, not insider knowledge I'm afraid). But I think it's likely to be PMs first.

[john123]

Originally posted by themadchemist
So here we are the beginning of the business day, Monday, February 2, 2004. There is time yet to surprise me, but I fear, my friends, that this will be another day of false hopes and disappointments, as yet again we realize that rumors were wrong and Apple has no new products for us.

I wasn't bitter on January 6th. No, I'm not buying my new computer until August anyway. But then again, I figured I'd see some action by the end of January, and that there would at least be a friggin' PowerMac speed bump for goodness sakes! And worse, the Powerbooks are hopelessly behind the times.

Apple was at the brink of something last June. It became strong in the hardware department again. But industry leader in June 2003 is market straggler in January 2004. Sure, there hasn't been THAT much development on the PC side, but things are starting to move, and Apple did not have much margin (if any) last June. The point was that the first G5 was supposed to give Apple a foothold, and with a stronger production stream from IBM, more frequent updates would boost the Mac hardware platform into clear superiority.

I don't see that and I'm dismayed. Could this be just another instance when Apple had great stuff on its hands but dropped the ball? I'll stick with our favorite company, but each blow is a little more depressing.

This seems a little extreme to me. Speed bumps of a couple hundred megahertz are the difference between the success and failure of Apple Computer, Inc.?

I don't think so. Besides, the rest of the technology in the G5 towers is, for the first time since the introduction of the G3 line, still way ahead of comparable PC desktops.

I'm not too concerned. Sure, I want new towers to come out as well, but I don't think that the death-bell is tolling for Apple if nothing comes out tomorrow or even in the immediate future...

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by john123
This seems a little extreme to me. Speed bumps of a couple hundred megahertz are the difference between the success and failure of Apple Computer, Inc.?

I don't think so. Besides, the rest of the technology in the G5 towers is, for the first time since the introduction of the G3 line, still way ahead of comparable PC desktops.

I'm not too concerned. Sure, I want new towers to come out as well, but I don't think that the death-bell is tolling for Apple if nothing comes out tomorrow or even in the immediate future...

I'm not saying that this little speed bump is going to be essential to the success or failure of Apple Computer, Inc. No, rather, I'm saying that not providing the speed bumps in a timely manner is Apple at its worst--not following through.

Apple will stay strong enough, because it has a loyal base and is doing better now than it has in quite a while. However, the goal is to make Apple's products without a doubt superior to their PC counterparts.

This is not true in the PowerBook department and is questionable in the PM department. The PowerMacs are almost as high-performance as the AMD chips, and though more efficient when time saved with the better operating system is considered, raw performance isn't where it should be--miles ahead of the competition.

And actually, the components aren't really THAT far ahead. PCs are catching up in bus. RAM speeds are starting to come to 400 MHz widely. GPU's are FAR better on the PC side. Yes, the architecture is better, but we need individual features of that architecture to be improved.

I'm not another death-crier, because I was around with Apple during the worst times, the non-steve ceo times, when all but a few of us thought Apple was done for.

I'm just saying that Apple needs to take the initiative to capture the lead. That's all. It's almost there, and with a little effort and a little 'boring' development, it can get to the top and stay there. Where are the 90nm chips?! They should be at higher clock speeds in the towers by now...The towers should be modified to fit another drive bay...nVIDIA and ATI must be beasted heartily until they release equal-level graphics cards for the Mac! These things are necessary to dominate in a world that is clueless about the Mac.

[john123]

Originally posted by themadchemist
I'm saying that not providing the speed bumps in a timely manner is Apple at its worst--not following through.
...
I'm just saying that Apple needs to take the initiative to capture the lead. That's all. It's almost there, and with a little effort and a little 'boring' development, it can get to the top and stay there. Where are the 90nm chips?! They should be at higher clock speeds in the towers by now...

See, I think you're attributing too much responsibility -- maybe more correctly, too much power -- to Apple.

They can't change the laws of physics (that pesky First Law of Thermodynamics gets in the way of PowerBooks every time), and they can't "make" IBM, nVIDIA, ATI, or any other supplier produce critical components at a pace much faster than the particular subcontractor chooses to.

So while we would all prefer a faster-developing Apple, I don't think that the lack of development is because Apple wishes to lag behind.

[agentkow]

I just received my elusive Powerbook 15" here at work fro mthe UPS guy. Both him and everyone in my office got a chocolate cigar and I was allowed to open it up to show off.

But thats all, I haven't been able to turn it on yet or anything, so don't know about iLife and all that yet.

But I have to say, WOW, it is huge compared to my 12" iBook. I literally thought they sent me a 17" by accident.

More later...

[JFreak]

right now i'm not sure if i'm lucky or just getting an extra delay. the thing is, my apple dealer called me yesterday that my order was complete, but there was one malfunctioning pixel in the lcd. (the blue subpixel was always on.) good thing is we agreed beforehand that lcd must be faultless, so they took another pb out of box and guess what - it also had one faulty pixel, this time bright red.

anyway, the dealer run out of 1.25ghz powerbooks and had to order more devices into the store. i may have been lucky if apple really announces new powerbooks today, but if they don't, i curse the blue subpixel that caused me to wait longer.

not that a day or two would hurt much normally, but i have been laptopless since the beginning of the year when my tibook had an accident.

well, hopefully apple releases new 'books that are ready to ship immediately. if they are available in march or something, i might just buy the current one. though if the new models have L3 cache, then i'll wait for sure.

any new info about this rumor? i'm guessing it won't happen...

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by JFreak
...not that a day or two would hurt much normally, but i have been
laptopless since the beginning of the year when my tibook had an accident.
"Lap-top-less"! Is that a word? :confused:
Oh, yeah, that's what happened to Janet Jackson at the end of Sunday's halftime show at SuperBowl OS XXXVII, when Justin reached across her LAP snap! TOPLESS :eek: by ACCIDENT! How Freaky is that?
"Performing together in a routine that had included a number of bump-and-grind moves, Timberlake reached across Jackson, flicking off the molded right cup of the bustier, leaving her breast bare except for a metallic pastie shaped like a spur or a sunburst." CNN.comNow, if this was an unintentional accident, why was she wearing a "metallic pastie" under the "molded ...cup of the bustier"?
Hey! LAPTOPLESS by ACCIDENT is following the thread, just like the exposed dead pixels. :D
Well, it's 3 in the morning, what do you expect. :(

[virividox]

hmmmmmm feb 2 today, i wonder i wonder

[Icekey]

What time are these things announced anyway?

[beebjunk]

Too late in the day for us Australians to see it I'd imagine :)

I'm a former iBook G4 owner waiting for announcements too :) And my money's in St. George :)

[Vashti]

So, it's 9:10 AM Eastern Standard Time. Someone told me when they hae big announcements, it's usually up on their webiste by 9 AM. Does this mean nothing's happening today? Anyone know? I've been waiting to buy a new powerbook.

[kingtj]

These days, the entire computer market has matured considerably over what it was like when Apple first hit the scene (or even when they first brough out the Macintosh).

Anymore, it's much like Indy car racing. It takes a LOT of money to get into the game, and only the biggest spenders are likely to incrementally get ahead of everyone else in speed/performance.

In the world of computer processors, Intel rules the game, closely followed by AMD. If there was going to be a speed-leader in CPUs, it came from one of those two companies, because they spent the most $'s on R&D.

Apple's traditional CPU builder, Motorola, on the other hand, is much more of a "commodity" supplier. They're worried about reliable, long-lasting parts for pagers, cellphones, 2-way radios, and other such things. Building CPU's for Apple was really just one more "nice little contract to have". They got out of the "race for performance" game a long time ago (arguably, back when chips were first transitioning from 8-bit to 16-bit!).

Apple finally made the smart move of contracting with IBM for the G5. (IBM is probably the only other company other than Intel or AMD who has the financial backing, experience, and at least the on-again/off-again interest in building competitive CPUs for computers.) Now, they're backed by a real player in the performance race - but unless a miracle happens, you're really not going to ever see much more than a *slight* jump on what the Intel/AMD guys are doing for the Windows side of the market.

They've ALL hit the limits of what can be done with the available technology, and they ALL know the next little steps they need to do for their next "speed bumps". (Heck, Intel has a "road map" years into the future that reliably predicts what speed of chip will be out when from them!)

This is why Apple was right, all along, in not really getting heavily into the benchmarks and "head to head comparisons". It's a sucker's game.... Instead, concentrate on the areas where you can truly offer something different and innovative. (Style, more functional GUI, better quality applications, etc.)


Originally posted by themadchemist
And actually, the components aren't really THAT far ahead. PCs are catching up in bus. RAM speeds are starting to come to 400 MHz widely. GPU's are FAR better on the PC side. Yes, the architecture is better, but we need individual features of that architecture to be improved.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
Don't worry, I've got a feeling something's coming tomorrow... (Gut only, not insider knowledge I'm afraid). But I think it's likely to be PMs first.

BZZZZZZT!

I'm sorry, but that's a wrong answer. Thank you for playing, and please, enjoy our parting gift. What do we have for him, Mike?


:D

[Kid Lemming]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
Don't worry, I've got a feeling something's coming tomorrow... (Gut only, not insider knowledge I'm afraid). But I think it's likely to be PMs first.

I just got this from Apple regarding my 15" PB order:

"Due to an unexpected supply delay, we are unable to ship the following item(s) by the date that you were originally quoted:

PBG4 15.2/1.25GHZ/1024/80/SD/AP/BL/LL will now ship on or before 02/09/2004"

Any hope left?

:(

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Kid Lemming
I just got this from Apple regarding my 15" PB order:

"Due to an unexpected supply delay, we are unable to ship the following item(s) by the date that you were originally quoted:

PBG4 15.2/1.25GHZ/1024/80/SD/AP/BL/LL will now ship on or before 02/09/2004"

Any hope left?

:(


Oh goody! Now we can rename this thread to be 'PowerBook Updates on Feb 9'!!

Let the rumors continue!! ;) :D :) :cool:

[agentkow]

Anyone figure out what that "LL" means yet? I've now got my Powerbook and there was no included Lava Lamp, Lots of Luck, or Love from Apple, except for how beautiful they made it.

However, it certainly doesn't stand for iLife because even though I was assured by the Apple phone guy that it would come with iLife 04, it didn't. I called Apple today and the lady assured me I was misinformed and it won't be included until mid-February to March.

I told her other people had received it and she said she hadn't heard of that. She was a little snarky.

[tombq]

RE: "well, hopefully apple releases new 'books that are ready to ship immediately. if they are available in march or something, i might just buy the current one. though if the new models have L3 cache, then i'll wait for sure."

I MUST get a powerbook by Friday -- I have had enough of waiting -- SHOULD i get the 17" older unit with 1G L3 cache and 256M L2 OR the newer 17" one with no L3 cache, but, according to Apple a FASTER 512M L2 cache?!?! I am leaning toward the latter becuase it has Panther and an ATI card (although I never game) and a slightl better battery

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN OFFER

Peace Out
Tom

[BagelTycoon]

Originally posted by tombq
I MUST get a powerbook by Friday -- I have had enough of waiting -- SHOULD i get the 17" older unit with 1G L3 cache and 256M L2

Bigger isn't always better ;)

Neither is heavier.

OR the newer 17" one with no L3 cache, but, according to Apple a FASTER 512M L2 cache?!?!

Faster, faster!... oh, yes!!...more RAM!!!

I am leaning toward the latter becuase it has Panther and an ATI card (although I never game) and a slightl better battery


All good batteries need to recharge, but I recommend a teenie weenie 12"SuperDrive/1.25MB DDR RAM/80GB/AirExtreme + 23"cinema display

[tombq]

Thanks. Perhaps I will wait for a higher resolution / illuminated keboard 12.1" and hold myself over with a $800 new AMD Athlon 2.4G 802.11g WIndowsXP 15.1" machine


$800 will buy me alot of time assuming the notes I have to integrate that onto an Airport Extreme network pans out

STILL waiting on the L3 question though!!



SUPPORT OUR TROOPS! Let's stop them from getting killed in the current wars and the ones about to be unleased if the pseudoReThugnicans seize ofice again CHEERS :)

[kingtj]

I had a real tough time choosing PB 17" or 15" myself. I finally went with the 15" and I love it! The 17" was tempting, but ultimately - it's a little too big. I love the big screen itself, but typing on it was sort of weird. It feels like you have to stretch your hands way out just to reach the keyboard on the thing!

Also, it requires a special carrying bag just to fit it in... You can't just choose any old carrying case you happen to like.

If I was really determined to go with a 17" though, I'd choose the newer model. The better ATI card makes a real difference, (gaming or not), because everything in OS X is of a graphical nature, and "Quartz Extreme" relies on your graphics card's capabilities. Having a touch more CPU speed is never a bad thing, either....

They're all nice laptops though - so in the end, just get whatever you get a good deal on or whatever you think you like best, and you should be pretty satisfied. (I guess my only real point is, if you're thinking of maybe going with an older 17" mostly to save some money, I wouldn't rule out buying the newer 15" instead.)


Originally posted by tombq

I MUST get a powerbook by Friday -- I have had enough of waiting -- SHOULD i get the 17" older unit with 1G L3 cache and 256M L2 OR the newer 17" one with no L3 cache, but, according to Apple a FASTER 512M L2 cache?!?! I am leaning toward the latter becuase it has Panther and an ATI card (although I never game) and a slightl better battery

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN OFFER

Peace Out
Tom

[theISHkid]

Just curious of the actual date of the 15" powerbook or at least the last 15" powerbook update? Does anyone know when it is? I would prefer an actual date if you know it.

Thanks in advance.

[tombq]

The last release was 9/16/03 ....



PS Thank you kingtj for the response

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by tombq
...with 1G L3 cache and 256M L2...
...with no L3 cache, but, ... a FASTER 512M L2 cache...


Hi Tom,

Unfortunately I don't have a good answer for you, other than to say that twice as much L2 cache would make for a much faster chip for many, many activities. Whether it's enough to make up for the lack of an L3 cache, I can't say. I think that it would have a fair bit to do with what you use your computer for...

Now, not to nit-pick, but I think you meant 1MB of L3 cache, 256KB of L2 cache on the older PB, vs. 512KB of L2 cache on the newer PB...

Cheers :D

[theISHkid]

So i'm kinda new to macs and according to what everyone else is saying there is about a 6 month turn around for new models or revisions on these computers. So i'm just kind of curious if this is what normally happens then why was there so much hype for a feb 2/3rd date? I mean I know anything is possible with apple, but I'm curious if there were actually signs pointing to new books other than just some wishful thinking?
Just like others I've got my eye on a new powerbook and I will wait for the next revisions since I'm not in any hurry. Does anyone think the next revision will come on or before Tuesday March 16th? Just a thought I've been having since that will be the 6 month date.

[johnnyjibbs]

L3 cache
Benchmark tests have shown that the new 15" Al and 12" Al 1GHz machines are quite a bit faster than 15" TiBooks (1GHz). The TiBooks had L3 cache and 256k L2, while the new AlBooks only have the 512k L2. I guess this show they are faster (even though there's also faster RAM to take into consideration).

It woudln't surprise me if the next PowerBook revision would see the return of L3 cache, but still with 512k L2, using the 7457. I think supply issues of enough of those processors (as opposed to the L3-cache-less 7447s) might have led Apple to drop the L3 cache. Let's just hope that if it returns, they give little 12" Al L3 too...

Release dates
16th September was the last time the PowerBooks got updated. This means that we may not see an update for a while yet. However, no-one can ever be sure, and sometimes updates come within a few months. Rumours from reputable sites such as this come from insider sources, leaks, people willing to flirt with non-disclosure agreements, etc. I guess some of it is wishfull thinking from some sites to generate interest. So far, there have been no updates since MacWorld SF a month ago. Tuesdays are usually the magical day for updates but nothing so far despite several mourmourings of Power Mac and PowerBook updates. Don't expect G5 PBs this time around though.

BTW, I guess, following on from my earlier post, that my gut was wrong :D :p! Oh well, we could all just hope for the 9th!

[kingtj]

<shrug> Ever since one of the guys at IBM made a claim that there's no reason why they can't get a lower-power, G5 processor into a laptop - people have been guessing at dates for Powerbook updates.

If you're in no hurry, then sure - just wait and see what rolls around next. It's all speculation with Apple, but from watching what they did with the G4 processors in their desktop line in the past (and watching how speed increases have been handled so far on the Powerbook line), it's possible to make some fairly decent guesses at things.

1. We know the G4 processor never made it above 1.42Ghz in a PowerMac, so it's a fair bet to say it won't do so in a Powerbook either.

2. With the current Powerbook 17" already running with a G4 at 1.33Ghz, that means there's not much room left to grow without going to the G5.

3. More of a "hunch" here, but seeing as Apple never made a PowerMac that ran at 1.33Ghz (they skipped right from 1.25Ghz to 1.42Ghz), the Powerbook at 1.33Ghz was probably a compromise made due to cooling issues.

4. Taking points 1-3 into consideration, Apple can't go any further with the high end Powerbook 17" without redesigning the cooling for the processor, and incrementally bumping it up to 1.42Ghz, or just waiting and making the next release a G5 of some sort.

Personally, I'd say that effort to redesign the 17" PB just to squeeze another .09Ghz out of it would be a waste. If Apple feels the need to refresh the product line before they're ready to release G5 versions to the public, they'll probably just bump up the speed of the 12" PowerBook (possibly so it matches the 15" speed?). They've currently got themselves into a situation where many people can't really justify a small Powerbook instead of a fully loaded iBook anyway. Adding some CPU speed to the 12" might work nicely for them.


Originally posted by theISHkid
So i'm kinda new to macs and according to what everyone else is saying there is about a 6 month turn around for new models or revisions on these computers. So i'm just kind of curious if this is what normally happens then why was there so much hype for a feb 2/3rd date? I mean I know anything is possible with apple, but I'm curious if there were actually signs pointing to new books other than just some wishful thinking?
Just like others I've got my eye on a new powerbook and I will wait for the next revisions since I'm not in any hurry. Does anyone think the next revision will come on or before Tuesday March 16th? Just a thought I've been having since that will be the 6 month date.

[michaelrjohnson]

you [people] make good points by suggesting the presence of a G5 powerbook just around the corner. however, other research and speculation up to this point indicates that G5 powerbooks shouldn't be expected this calendar year.

i'm not sure what to think!

[kifran]

I'm a new member, hope this reaches the thread it should reach. I am one step away from buying a 17" 1.33 PB, but am having second thoughts with all this G5 PB comming this year. Even if it is released after september, I am whilling to wait, BUT ANY IDEA ON HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST???

By the way, Mac User since 1995, currently iBook 800, iMac 15" Flat, severel iMac at Business.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by michaelrjohnson
... arrival of a G5 powerbook just around the corner. :)
However, other research and speculation up to this point indicate that
G5 powerbooks should NOT be expected this calendar year. :( Yes, we want a G5 PB so bad we can taste it and
collectively HOPE it's just around the corner. :p
"This Calendar Year", well... being totally realistic, I kind of doubt it. :mad:
But, it would be sooooo nice. :D
Originally posted by michaelrjohnson
...ANY IDEA ON HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST???Sure, a good historical estimation would probably range between $2,999 and $3,499 for the 15" and 17" PB, less for the 12" depending on SuperDrive or Combo, and other configurations.
BUT then add some serious green to max out the RAM, replace the tortoise with a hare HD, $350 for AppleCare, and a few nickels for specially discounted software at time of purchase, God willing. ;)
Save them Franklins, about 40 to 50 of them.
If you stop smokin', drinkin', chasin' skirts, and get another part-time job, you just might me ready by release date in 2005... :rolleyes:

If that's too depressing, you could tide yourself over between now and then with a super little G4 iBook (which way outsell PB, are far more popular, and reasonably priced too!)

Or, you could guess which Donkey or Elephant we should vote into the White House so our Tax Refund in early 2005 will hopefully provide us with the wherewithal to buy another Apple...

[john123]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
L3 cache
Benchmark tests have shown that the new 15" Al and 12" Al 1GHz machines are quite a bit faster than 15" TiBooks (1GHz).

Uhhh, I don't know what benchmarks you're looking at...but no.

They're pretty much in the same ballpark, give or take. Hardly "quite a bit faster" in any (practical) benchmarks....

[dryvlee]

Rather have a faster HD, faster system bus, that will speed up the system alot more..

[stockscalper]

The quality on the present design is so poor, I for one, am going to wait until the ones from Quanta are released. There's not a lot they can do in terms of speed until the G5's are released. The G4 never got over 1.4 mhz and it was overclocked even then. The bus is too slow on the G4's. But there are a couple of things they could do to give it a modest speed boost such as equipping them with faster hard drives (the 4200 rpms are just way too slow) and they could use faster video cards, ie 128 ram memory. Faster ram would help too but that can't happen until they get a faster frontside bus on the G4. However, a larger cache would help.

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by stockscalper
The quality on the present design is so poor, I for one, am going to wait until the ones from Quanta are released. There's not a lot they can do in terms of speed until the G5's are released. The G4 never got over 1.4 mhz and it was overclocked even then. The bus is too slow on the G4's. But there are a couple of things they could do to give it a modest speed boost such as equipping them with faster hard drives (the 4200 rpms are just way too slow) and they could use faster video cards, ie 128 ram memory. Faster ram would help too but that can't happen until they get a faster frontside bus on the G4. However, a larger cache would help.

You're forgetting that all that "faster" stuff means a huge battery too. Or a hour of battery life with the current battery.

The G4 is a great, superb chip for the PowerBook line. Fast and resonably energy effeicient.

[busasa]

just received the pb15 in lightning quick two days from Taiwan to Toronto. The build is impeccable, even though there's no hardware upgrade in any means. The ilife'04 is included seperately in a disk, and this is huge for me. No latch or the close gap problem, no dead pixel, no white spot or uneven lighting, no overheating, as this notebook seems to function perfectly. Wut can I say, the 15" widescreen is the BEST!!

[aswitcher]

SNIP

Personally, I'd say that effort to redesign the 17" PB just to squeeze another .09Ghz out of it would be a waste. If Apple feels the need to refresh the product line before they're ready to release G5 versions to the public, they'll probably just bump up the speed of the 12" PowerBook (possibly so it matches the 15" speed?). They've currently got themselves into a situation where many people can't really justify a small Powerbook instead of a fully loaded iBook anyway. Adding some CPU speed to the 12" might work nicely for them. [/B]

I agree, speed hike is unlikely until G5 for 17". 12" definetly has some wriggle room if they can squeeze some more speed and a better graphics card in it. Illuminated keyboard would be fab and distignuish it further from the iBooks.

I do wonder if the 17" and possible 15" might see an iSight camera built into the hinge or something facing inward when the screens opened up, no expense spared sort of feature in a tweak to the current design.

A price drop would be nice as well...

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by aswitcher
I do wonder if the 17" and possible 15" might see an iSight camera built into the hinge or something facing inward when the screens opened up, no expense spared sort of feature in a tweak to the current design.
The problem with that is that so camera-sensitive places would prohibit PowerBooks from being taken in.

And there's no harm in Apple silently putting a 1.42 GHz in the 17"?

[GroundLoop]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
The problem with that is that so camera-sensitive places would prohibit PowerBooks from being taken in.

This would definitely be true in my case. Where I work you cannot have cell phones or PDAs in most areas. In the least restrictive areas you can have a cell phone, but it must not have a camera or any kind of voice recording feature.

As far as a PB update, I hope there is one coming within the next 5 weeks. I will be authorized for an interest-free computer loan from my company next week. Then, I will have 30 days to make a purchase. Hopefully, I will be buying a 15" PB 1.33.

Hickman

[Bilvox]

Am I in need of eye check up or do I see an updated Special Deals section on the apple store site where the powerbook g4 referbs have price drops?
if this is so.. then perhaps maybe we can indeed expect price drop on the new ones next week?


--------------------
"Im just the same as all the rest I've been tryin to throw my arms around the world" -U2
http://www.bilvox.com

[br0wnbuffer]

I've been looking at 12" and 15" refurbs as options, and I don't think the prices have budged there. Don't know about the 17" though.

[Bilvox]

Yeah I noticed no superdrive 15"
and the 17" seemed cheeper...
ich weiss nict...
hmmmmm



Originally posted by br0wnbuffer
I've been looking at 12" and 15" refurbs as options, and I don't think the prices have budged there. Don't know about the 17" though.

[Dandaman]

could one use an educational discount to the refurbished products?

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by Dandaman
could one use an educational discount to the refurbished products? Do not think so.

Apple rarely (never!) combines discounts.

Besides, Apple sets specific price amounts for a product as its price, whether in the Apple Store, the Discount Store, or as an Educational Discount price, not as a percentage OFF where ever you find the product you want.

Even at an Apple Retail Store when they have a 10% off SALE, it does not apply to an Educational Discount price, but it may apply to an in-store marked down price on "Refreshed" or "Refurbished" items.

But, you can always ask. :D

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by MacRAND
Do not think so.

Apple rarely (never!) combines discounts.

Besides, Apple sets specific price amounts for a product as its price, whether in the Apple Store, the Discount Store, or as an Educational Discount price, not as a percentage OFF where ever you find the product you want.

Even at an Apple Retail Store when they have a 10% off SALE, it does not apply to an Educational Discount price, but it may apply to an in-store marked down price on "Refreshed" or "Refurbished" items.

But, you can always ask. :D

Heads up! The educational prices on discount items are further discounted...

http://www.ghwphoto.com/Picture1.jpg

http://www.ghwphoto.com/Picture2.jpg

Cheers! ;)

On closer inspection, they don't do it for all products in the discount store. So, some have it some don't...

PS: Anyone know why those come in as links and not images, even though I used the [ IMG ][ /IMG ] tags?

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Anyone know why those come in as links and not images, even though I used the [ IMG ][ /IMG ] tags? [/Edit] I have never been able to get the IMG button or language to do anything except create a link to an image.
But, if you use Attach File: and (Choose File) button down below the Reply text box, you should be able to upload a small file from your computer, which is how I uploaded the screen shot of my ugly mug taken from iChatAV video window.

BTW the Creator of the original Happy Face used my face as the model...
:)

[EdMan517]

I am new to MacRumors, but have been reading some of the threads on the PowerBooks and I was looking for some buying advice.

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 at home and I am looking to purchase a laptop for school. I have a PowerMac G4 867 DP at work (w/OS 10.2.8) and I love it. I think it's much easier to use. I have Virtual PC with Windows XP Pro on it, so I can test things on the Windows side if I have to.

I program in FileMaker Pro at work and find it much easier to design on my Mac than on my Windows at home.

My current classes involve learning/using Macromedia Suite MX 2004 - I purchased the academic version last fall and installed it at home. I tested the applications on my Mac at work and think they will be easier to use on a Mac.

So...I have been keeping my eye on MacMall to buy a 15" 1GHz PowerBook and bump the RAM up to 1GB. Will that be good enough for me? Will it run Virtual PC very well?

I'm anxious to buy, but not sure if I should wait for these rumored price drops etc. This will help me to take work home. I have also been picking up FileMaker Pro work on the side and it would be easier to bring a laptop to a client's site.

Thanks for your input.

Long-windEd

[john123]

Originally posted by EdMan517
I am new to MacRumors, but have been reading some of the threads on the PowerBooks and I was looking for some buying advice.

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 at home and I am looking to purchase a laptop for school. I have a PowerMac G4 867 DP at work (w/OS 10.2.8) and I love it. I think it's much easier to use. I have Virtual PC with Windows XP Pro on it, so I can test things on the Windows side if I have to.

I program in FileMaker Pro at work and find it much easier to design on my Mac than on my Windows at home.

My current classes involve learning/using Macromedia Suite MX 2004 - I purchased the academic version last fall and installed it at home. I tested the applications on my Mac at work and think they will be easier to use on a Mac.

So...I have been keeping my eye on MacMall to buy a 15" 1GHz PowerBook and bump the RAM up to 1GB. Will that be good enough for me? Will it run Virtual PC very well?

I'm anxious to buy, but not sure if I should wait for these rumored price drops etc. This will help me to take work home. I have also been picking up FileMaker Pro work on the side and it would be easier to bring a laptop to a client's site.

Thanks for your input.

Long-windEd

Sounds like you and I are pretty similar users. I have a Dimension 8200 and a PowerBook 1Ghz/1GB, and I do database and web work too, so I think I can help you.

The PowerBook's great. 1GB is, for the most part, all you'll need. Getting more is a waste of money for what you're doing, in my opinion.

You'll not find the same "snappiness" on your PowerBook that you find with your Dell...browsing in the GUI will be slower, as you may be aware from comparing your DP tower to your Dell. The relative merits of OS X versus Windows 2000 or XP have long been discussed, and I'll assume that since you're familiar with both platforms, you know the pros and cons of each.

Since you've used VirtualPC, you know that it can be *slow*. If you want to use it to run anything of significance, forget about it.

Database work on any laptop is not so much fun, mostly because of the slow drive speeds. FMP is better implemented on the Mac than it is on the PC, *but* if you're really using your laptop for database "show and tell" for clients, the PowerBook should be great.

Price drops will come. My personal guess is new models and/or price drops by the end of March, but it's really anyone's guess.

[stockscalper]

With respect to power/battery issues, consider this fact. The G4 currently draws about 7 watts while the new 980 (G5) chip only draws 12 watts, well within the realm of Powerbook use. Contrast this to Intel's new chip, Prescott, which draws a whopping 100 watts! It is conceivable that a G5 could be used in a Powerbook in the near future. The issue is not whether it can be used, but rather will Apple choose to use it. Given their history they have been slow to adapt newer faster technology that was available to them which is why they have fallen behind in the speed race in the past.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by stockscalper
With respect to power/battery issues, consider this fact. The G4 currently draws about 7 watts while the new 980 (G5) chip only draws 12 watts, well within the realm of Powerbook use. Contrast this to Intel's new chip, Prescott, which draws a whopping 100 watts! It is conceivable that a G5 could be used in a Powerbook in the near future. The issue is not whether it can be used, but rather will Apple choose to use it. Given their history they have been slow to adapt newer faster technology that was available to them which is why they have fallen behind in the speed race in the past.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. What newer faster tech that was available to them? Are you talking about the possibility of switching to x86? Or about holding the G3 line to slower speeds than was available in the G4 line? In either case, this is hardly an argument for why they wouldn't put the G5 into a Powerbook as soon as possible. Unless I'm much mistaken, Apple actually has a good track record of putting the fastest chip that they can, as soon as they can, into their PowerBook line.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by stockscalper
With respect to power/battery issues, consider this fact.
The G4 currently draws about 7 watts while the new
980 G5 chip only draws 12 watts, well within the realm of Powerbook use.

Contrast this to Intel's new chip, Prescott, which draws a whopping 100 watts!

It is conceivable that a G5 could be used in a Powerbook in the near future.

The issue is not whether it can be used, but rather
will Apple choose to use it.
Given their history they have been slow to adapt newer faster technology that was available to them
which is why they have fallen behind in the speed race in the past. Although by comparison to a 100 watt Intel Prescott chip, the new smaller G5 (980) chip at 12 wattS seems immediately practicable,
the difference between the 7 watt G4 and a 12 watt G5 is more than one and a half times the wattage and potentially a similar factor in heat (1.714 to be more precise).
So if Apple has been having problems with heat (TiBooks evolving into AlBooks) from a 7 watt G4, their problems with heat generated by a 12 watt G5 is 71% greater, a not an insignificant figure.

That being true, it must be a truly daunting task for Dell, Gateway, or even IBM to get a Prescott chip to work in a laptop. :p

At least Apple's goal appears to be more attainable. :) But when?

As to Apple's slowness in adopting "newer, faster technology" as it became available, your position appears to have some merit But I'm not so sure how your argument applies to PPC chips or their clockspeed in general. We've all seen how Apple historically introduces a chip at a low clockspeed and then cranks the same chip up as newer releases are made. What was the real physical difference between single 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 G5 chips that warranted such a difference in asking price? How far can the 2.0 chip be "overclocked" if it isn't already?
Clearly, the quicker Apple releases faster chips on their way to a 3.0GHz goal the happier everyone will be.

I just hope Apple doesn't get caught shooting itself in the foot like Audi did with an early model of the Fox, where the only difference between two models sold at significantly different retail prices was not the engine (exactly the same) but that their engineers had installed a $2.00 exhaust restrictor plate which any knowledgable mechanic could easily remove from the exhaust pipe leading to the muffler thereby resulting in a significant power boost.

We've all been left shaking our heads while Apple has for years repeatedly ignored the status quo of USB 2.0 throughout the personal computer industry by not upgrading Mac USB 1.1 ports. Why, because we didn't understand the superiority of FireWire 400 to USB 2.0 (400) when doing video and connecting external hard drives, so we had to wait until Apple was ready to release FireWire 800?

Other examples are the old bottlenecks in its bus, slow ATA speed for laser and hard drives, and slow RAM.

However, while IBM and a few others rushed into installing high speed DDR RAM chips with excellent error correcting capabilities into PC desktops and laptops, Apple appears to have been more appropriately cautious considering the high cost of being an early adopter.

Apple has adopted many of these technologies in excellent fashion when designing the motherboard and system to house and support G5 chips. Much of Apple's motivation may have finally been that in the G5, they finally had a fast and powerful enough PPC chip that they could truly exploit using a high speed bus architecture.

Finally, instead of dozens of models with curious even confusing differentiations many apparently only for marketing affect, Apple's chips and models are now concentrated into just a few baskets: G4 & G5 (and new G5), laptops, desktops and towers. So now maybe, just maybe Apple will focus on real differences instead of trying to market perceived variations. Will Apple try to sell us anymore 1.6GHz single chip G5s?

What I do expect is new faster G5 models being released as soon as IBM can deliver a couple 10,000 G5 chip shipments running at higher and higher clock speeds. We are already seeing new G5 Xserves with the smaller cooler chips clocked at 2.0GHz, so how could 2.2 through 2.6 be far behind?

Hey Apple, got CHIPS?
You think? :confused:

[Bilba]

Here's one for hope. Tomorrow or this week might bring us good news.

Keep you fingers crossed.

[dryvlee]

I would like to agree with Bilba since my supplier claimed to be so too, my supplier was wrong last week. Anyway, what have we got to lose?
I am supposed to be getting my new 17in Powerbook this week, let's see if there is an upgrade?

[gate]

I feel that Apple is just about to announce something ... tonight during the Grammys !!!

[Bilba]

For luck, I will sleep tonight with my new Apple Developer Connection T-shirt..

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by gate
I feel that Apple is just about to announce something ... tonight during the Grammys !!!

Oh please!

Would be nice though.....

[BagelTycoon]

I'm convinced that it no longer makes sense to make Airport cards optional on Apple's PBook or iBooks.

Apple was the first to make wireless access simple, convenient, and easy.

With wi-fi demand and access on a steady climb upwards, it seems perfectly logical to make Airport de riguer, rather than Exteme.

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by BagelTycoon
I'm convinced that it no longer makes sense to make Airport cards optional on Apple's PBook or iBooks.

Apple was the first to make wireless access simple, convenient, and easy.

With wi-fi demand and access on a steady climb upwards, it seems perfectly logical to make Airport de riguer, rather than Exteme.

Yep bluetooth and airport extreme should be standard...I think extreme handles 802.11b fine so extreme is simplier to install ... yes?

[Mt.Everest]

macosrumors.com have posted a new rumor on the Powerbook updates. Seem to be relatively valid given the amount of specifics mentioned..

heres an excerpt:

" Next-generation Powerbook G4 details: A modest update to Apple's pro laptops, to bridge the considerable gap between the current models and the Powerbook G5 that will be introduced in the late third quarter, is expected early this spring. The update will be almost entirely in the specifications list and will not introduce any major enclosure or architectural changes.

Details include PowerPC 7457 G4 processors at 1.25, 1.33, and 1.467 or possibly 1.533GHz...."

it goes on from there...
Anyone care to expand on what they say?

MT

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by Mt.Everest
macosrumors.com have posted a new rumor on the Powerbook updates. Seem to be relatively valid given the amount of specifics mentioned..

heres an excerpt:

" Next-generation Powerbook G4 details: A modest update to Apple's pro laptops, to bridge the considerable gap between the current models and the Powerbook G5 that will be introduced in the late third quarter, is expected early this spring. The update will be almost entirely in the specifications list and will not introduce any major enclosure or architectural changes.

Details include PowerPC 7457 G4 processors at 1.25, 1.33, and 1.467 or possibly 1.533GHz...."

it goes on from there...
Anyone care to expand on what they say?

MT

Wish I could. Speed bump would be appreciated but its not a G5 so not too excited here. Wish I knew if the 12" was getting a decent graphics card and bus etc

[john123]

Originally posted by Mt.Everest
macosrumors.com have posted a new rumor on the Powerbook updates. Seem to be relatively valid

This statement is oxymoronic.

I'd stand better odds of predicting Apple product timetables by going to the Oracle NeatGekko and offering libations and making an animal sacrifice than by reading MOSR...

[dryvlee]

mosr has been rather reliable lately....

[john123]

Originally posted by dryvlee
mosr has been rather reliable lately....

On some predictable stuff. And on stuff ThinkSecret already announced.

Sure, MOSR got it right on mini iPods...but everyone knew about the minis. Same with the Xserve G5s.

The processor speeds that they posit on the PowerBooks only make sense, given the bus speed issues. And of course we won't be waiting until September to see a PowerBook revision (I say "of course" somewhat hopefully).

But MOSR blurs the line between information-based predictions and quasi-logical common sense guesses too often. I read them for amusement only...not as a reliable source of rumors.

[dryvlee]

but rumours are just that, rumours..

decisions may change overnight and hence reliable rumours may not be so..

I use it as an early warning, never something to bet your life on..

[BagelTycoon]

Originally posted by aswitcher
Yep bluetooth and airport extreme should be standard...I think extreme handles 802.11b fine so extreme is simplier to install ... yes?

Given Apple's iBook push in the education market, I can't see bluetooth as a default option for the Junior High - College market, though pre-configured Airport makes perfect sense for those users.

And given that the current bluetooth built-in is already a standard configuration for the higher-end PBook, it makes no sense why Airport cards aren't.

[a17inchFuture]

Just to add fuel to the rapidly dying fire . . . . Apple had more refurbished powerbooks today, including for the first time the most recent generation of 17 inchers . . . thus being 1.33 Ghz . It is gone now, as might be the most recent edition of the superdrive 15inch and 12 inch, i think.

Also, a sidenote to apple, in case they are listening: Go ahead, wait all year if you want ,but i am not buying my laptop until you update!!!!!!!

17 inches, mmmmmmmm...

[a17inchFuture]

I think apple should come out with new powerbooks before they come out with new towers. Wait a few more months and if the technology has evoled even further, put the even newest and best configuration of towers out on the market then, but give the new versions some time to breath on the market.

Give your products some time before you make them less-than-best. When a new line comes out, it compeltely makes the old lines sales drop. The product virtually becomes obsolete. G5's have been updated twice in the last quarter (basically), and I think that the powerbooks, while also updated somewhat recently (september, although 5 months is hardly recent), are still lagging behind others computer companies (or so other posts on this and other rumor sites have lead me to believe).

They should release the absolute most-refined version of the G4 powerbook and sell it as the most-up-to-date-in-every-department, but the G5 processor. If they are forced make people wait for heat/size issues resulting from the G5, and it is going to be an obvious hole in their sales line, they should address that immediately and show that it can't be beat in any other way, but the obvious. Update everything but the processor, and everyone will wait happily for its inevitable arrival.

Whatever it be, I think powerbooks deserve more attention at the moment. Wireless is everywhere, and portable is most certainly the wave of the future. I know apple is the cutting edge, and they know it too. Not just in technology but in providing just what the consumer wants.

Please, Apple, give us new Powerbooks . . . . .

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
I think apple should come out with ... the absolute most-refined version of the G4 powerbook and sell it as the most-up-to-date-in-every-department, but the G5 processor. ... Update everything but the processor, and everyone will wait happily for its inevitable arrival.
Please, Apple, give us new Powerbooks . . . You mean...dare I say it? that Apple should put 7200 rpm 60GB hard drives in PowerBooks instead of oh so sloooow 4200 rpm?
No, they wouldn't add L3 cache, would they?
And, 8x SuperDrives as standard issue?
There's no room for Dual 1GHz chips in a PowerBook, is there?
What is this Macworld coming to?
:p

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by MacRAND

There's no room for Dual 1GHz chips in a PowerBook, is there?
What is this Macworld coming to?
:p

Maybe the 17" - world first dual machine :) Just need another battery...

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by aswitcher
Maybe the 17" - world's first dual machine :) Just needs another battery... YES, and a little Chihuahua hanging from its iSight, tricked out with Dual chrome exhaust pipes...ZOOM!!!
PB Cruiser Turbo (low-rider special) ;) Smokin'

[deejemon]

*

[pigwin32]

Originally posted by deejemon
I hope you enjoy your imaginary PowerBook. The backlit keyboard is only standard on the 17" and the high-end 15" (1.25GHz) PowerBooks, and is an option on the low-end 15" (1.0GHz).


Umm, if you re-read the original post you might notice the "asa", which I would interpret as "as soon as". I won't explain further, I figure you're already feeling a little foolish.

BTW, I too am using an older PB, my one is slightly faster, a 667. Being somewhat foolish myself I fully intend to upgrade to a G5 (or G6) PB as soon as one is available, but not before then. A speed bump on the G4 is just not going to do it for me.

[spaceballl]

This is just speculation. We've all been saying the same thing over here on this message board. For all we know, he got that info here...
-Kev
Originally posted by Mt.Everest
" Next-generation Powerbook G4 details: A modest update to Apple's pro laptops, to bridge the considerable gap between the current models and the Powerbook G5 that will be introduced in the late third quarter, is expected early this spring. The update will be almost entirely in the specifications list and will not introduce any major enclosure or architectural changes.

Details include PowerPC 7457 G4 processors at 1.25, 1.33, and 1.467 or possibly 1.533GHz...."

[JFreak]

Originally posted by pigwin32
I too am using an older PB, my one is slightly faster, a 667. Being somewhat foolish myself I fully intend to upgrade to a G5 (or G6) PB as soon as one is available, but not before then. A speed bump on the G4 is just not going to do it for me.

i had the same plan, but then my powerbook's display broke and i'm now waiting for delivery. it would be very nice if apple bumped the 'books now. one can hope ;)

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by JFreak
i had the same plan, but then my powerbook's display broke and i'm now waiting for delivery. it would be very nice if apple bumped the 'books now. one can hope ;)

Just don't hold your breath...

:)

[dryvlee]

I'm in the same position as JFreak. My 17in Powerbook has been shipped from Taiwan on Monday/Tuesday and will arrive either Friday or Monday.

My take on the Powerbook update is this: Apple has to release the interim models soon and not close to the date of G5 Powerbook release (est 3rd Q). But when could Apple release working models of Powerbook? Hastily put together improved parts may result in more lemons...and groans.

[a17inchFuture]

Originally posted by dryvlee
My take on the Powerbook update is this: Apple has to release the interim models soon and not close to the date of G5 Powerbook release (est 3rd Q). But when could Apple release working models of Powerbook? Hastily put together improved parts may result in more lemons...and groans.


I think that it wouldn't be hastily put together to put in the ATI9700 that consumes less energy and a 5400 rpm hd, which is already an option, in the PB as standard.

Beyond that, i am sure there are other parts that could end up being hastily put together if rushed, but thats what the applecare program is for, and buying any computer these days without one of those is the unsmart move. A slong as you buy your applecare, any long term negative effects of the new changes would be resolved by apple themselves.

[Bilba]

As previously mentioned, Apple can:
1) Make x1 chip of 512mb on all basic pbook.
2) Update the ATI video card
3) Make 5400 RPM drive standard
4) change superdrive to x4
5) bump speed just a bit (1.25/1.33/1.42)

I will order this machine the second its out. It will serve me well for 1-2 years, at which point I will upgrade to a brand new G5.

I don't want to wait 5 more months for a G5, and I really don't want to buy 1st generation G5.

Oh and BTW, they can always follow the rumors and drop prices 200-300$.

Apple, prove us all wrong and announce the updates already.

[stockscalper]

From the UK Macworld site:

G5 PowerBook 'this year'?

By Jonny Evans

Microprocessor experts expect Apple to release new G5 Power Macs soon and posit the release of a G5 PowerBook "this year".

In-Stat/MDR's Microprocessor Watch editor-in-chief Peter Glaskowsky, who attended briefings with Apple at Macworld Expo San Francisco, writes: "In announcing the new Xserve G5 at MacWorld Expo, Apple CEO Steve Jobs glossed over what we consider the most interesting fact about the new system: it represents the debut of IBM's 90nm (nanometer) PowerPC 970FX, which Apple calls the G5."

This new generation processor offers one crucial advantage against the G5 currently used in Apple's desktop Macs. The latter processors were made using IBM's 130nm manufacturing process. This different manufacturing method means the new G5 has a, "maximum power consumption of 55W at 2GHz, down from the 90W" of the current Power Mac chip, Glaskowsky said.

"We expect to see new G5 desktops soon, with faster processors, and G5 laptops later in the year", he said.

In its brief 'Quick Reference' guide, IBM describes the typical working power consumption of the 970FX as: "12.3W@1.4GHz, or 24.5W@2.0GHz" – potentially more impressive, and much less that the current processor's typical power needs of 51W@1.8GHz.

This difference means the Xserve G5 does not require as statuesque a series of fans to ensure the machine does not overheat. It also offers a glimpse of a road map of what Apple has called "the engineering challenge" of building a G5 PowerBook.

IBM has already revealed that the 970FX offers power-management features – meaning a processor capable of speeds of 2GHz could be clocked down, in order that it generate less heat in use.

IBM has released some details pertaining to the new processor. They reveal that these processors can reach speeds from 1.4GHz to in excess of 2GHz, with a bus interface that's ten per cent faster then the current G5 – 1.1GHz from 1GHz.


All told, Apple and IBM appear set to deliver on Apple CEO Steve Jobs' promise that the Power Mac G5 would reach 3GHz in 2003.

[aswitcher]

Ok, nice to see previous discussions revisted in different media...shame he didn't have more info pointing to a likely release date...

[johnnyjibbs]

I'm afraid, we have our speculation, but there is no real evidence that the PowerBooks will be updated for at least 2 more months. I'm not counting out there being updates soon, and there may well be, but if you consider the time gaps, it doesn't bode well. Prior to the previous update in September, there was an 8 month wait (10 on the 15"). We have only had approaching 5 months so far. The PowerBook line is not in dire need of updates, and I would expect a quiet bump with little or no annoucment and better graphics cards when they do come. But I think Power Macs will come first.

[john123]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
I'm afraid, we have our speculation, but there is no real evidence that the PowerBooks will be updated for at least 2 more months. I'm not counting out there being updates soon, and there may well be, but if you consider the time gaps, it doesn't bode well. Prior to the previous update in September, there was an 8 month wait (10 on the 15"). We have only had approaching 5 months so far. The PowerBook line is not in dire need of updates, and I would expect a quiet bump with little or no annoucment and better graphics cards when they do come. But I think Power Macs will come first.

I'd kind of disagree with you regarding how dire the need is for new PowerBooks...see, when the PowerBooks got G4s, they became not just suitable but fantastic desktop replacements. Actually, I'd say that the Pismo (400Mhz G3 with FireWire) was the turning point in that regard, although I am admittedly a little biased as that was when I made the switch from desktop to laptop myself.

The thing is, PowerBooks really aren't desktop replacements for power-hungry professionals anymore. For the first time in a long time, I'm considering making my next computer a desktop rather than a laptop (if I stick with Macs -- which is in question).

BUT, I agree with you that I don't see PowerBook revisions coming immediately. April's my prediction for when we'll see them, with faster Power Mac G5s appearing before then.

[johnnyjibbs]

I might even go as far to say that, IMO, the first round of PowerBook G5s may not actually be that much more powerful than the current line-up. From a market point of view they will be good, but unless they are at least 1.6 GHz, I can't see them being that much more powerful.

I think this because the G5 appears to be less powerful clock for clock than the G4, as shown in tests where the 1.42 GHz Dual G4 beats the 1.6 G5 hands down in a lot of tasks (true, two processors do help a lot).

I highly doubt a 1.2 GHz G5 would be faster than the current 15/17" PBs, even though it would have a 600MHz FSB and be 64-bit, faster RAM etc. Even a 1.4 would not be dramatically faster I wouldn't have thought. That means that, unless they get a 2.0 GHz chip in there, then there's no need to wait unless you really can afford to. All I'm saying is that I doubt the G5 PB will flatten the current G4 one as much as everyone thinks it will. I could be wrong though.

I don't know much about processors and internal architecture, but this is just my view based on what I don know and the facts that have been presented thus far.

[john123]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
I might even go as far to say that, IMO, the first round of PowerBook G5s may not actually be that much more powerful than the current line-up. From a market point of view they will be good, but unless they are at least 1.6 GHz, I can't see them being that much more powerful.

I think this because the G5 appears to be less powerful clock for clock than the G4, as shown in tests where the 1.42 GHz Dual G4 beats the 1.6 G5 hands down in a lot of tasks (true, two processors do help a lot).

I highly doubt a 1.2 GHz G5 would be faster than the current 15/17" PBs, even though it would have a 600MHz FSB and be 64-bit, faster RAM etc. Even a 1.4 would not be dramatically faster I wouldn't have thought. That means that, unless they get a 2.0 GHz chip in there, then there's no need to wait unless you really can afford to. All I'm saying is that I doubt the G5 PB will flatten the current G4 one as much as everyone thinks it will. I could be wrong though.

I don't know much about processors and internal architecture, but this is just my view based on what I don know and the facts that have been presented thus far.

It'll be better, I think, but most of the rest of the "guts" probably won't be. New graphics chip, maybe higher resolution display, etc...but all the rest of the things -- ports and the like -- will stay pretty constant, I'd imagine.

[fred_garvin]

Most people are approaching this from the wrong vantage point again. Look from Apple's position, not your own. Last year, the need for another update was more dire than today. The lineup had a hole in it as far as 15" buyers were concerned. No one would buy an old TiBook, when the 12 and 17" showed the new design. Yet, Apple took 9 months from the 12/17 introduction, and 11 months from the last 15" update to revise the line.

Their current offerings are very nice. If you look at the history, it's typically 7-9 months before an update. Look for a revision April-June timeframe. The G5 Powerbook will probably be a MWSF 05 announcement. They never release in December because of the holiday shopping season.

Q3 04 starts July 1st. That is extremely optimistic to expect the G5 PB by then. Expect Jan 05, and if earlier it will be a nice suprise.

[a17inchFuture]

I think we can all agree that Apple is going to revise their PB line sometime before summer. Why wait? As we all know, the technology for G4s has topped out, so why not put them in what they sell already? At least for ones tht are custom-made, not store-bought. It is annoying that everyone is talking about the new possibilities for updates, and how they have new ATI cards, etc, and this is why it makes me slightly preturbed that we are seemingly waiting for an arbitrary date for revision.

At least IBM, etc. put the tech out there as it comes. Apple is always trying to market themselves well, and therefore they hardly do anything to woo people besides "look at me" techniques. Technology is changing everyday, why should change only be able to affect us (the consumer) twice a year? and in sometimes 10 month intervals?

[ejacob]

I can not take it any more. I'm placing my order today for a 15". The update will fall within one week of when I get my Powerbook. I know this because that's what happened when I bought my PowerMac G4 733. Bigger better faster More was just one week after. AAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH.

[fred_garvin]

"Why wait?"

Again, look from Apple's business perspective. Once a rev is released all inventory of the old model plummets in value. They like to clear out the channel of the old product as best they can in advance.

Also, the difference between them and an IBM is:

1. They are their own market, and are not trying to match a Dell, HP, Sony spec for spec. A 9700 vs a 9600 may be the tie breaker for a consumer between an IBM and Dell laptop, but surely not the difference between a PowerBook and an x86 laptop.

2. IBM can rely on the common drivers that everyone else uses. They supply the hardware end only, so if the 9700 works in windows they can throw in the card as fast as anyone else. For Apple, they need to worry about the driver being available, and testing it with OS X. Sometimes they need to put out a point release to the OS to support new hardware. Apple just doesn't have the size or the pressing need to push out small revisions frequently like the x86 makers.

It's far more cost effective for Apple to rev the lines every 7-9 months vs every 4-5 months. Unless Apple feels that the less frequent updates are hurting sales enough to cover the cost savings, they will continue the trend. Apple is profitable along with Dell. IBM's pc division, Sony, etc are all losing money these days.

[CmdrLaForge]

Originally posted by ejacob
I can not take it any more. I'm placing my order today for a 15". The update will fall within one week of when I get my Powerbook. I know this because that's what happened when I bought my PowerMac G4 733. Bigger better faster More was just one week after. AAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH.

Congrats. I believe its a good choice. The current PB is awesome and it will take a while before the G5 is out.

[a17inchFuture]

The fact of the matter is, that if others are doing what I do, which is waiting until the newest revisions are released before purchasing (which for me has been an average of four months) then apple is losing a whole crop of those purchases, and if this practice is continued through multiple generations of hardware purchases( like i am doing it now, and will for the next ten times i buy a comp) then they ARE losing a HUGE amount fo business! Again, regardless of the facts about how much inventory they have, it doesnt seem true to me that they would need to wait to get rid of it.

What do you think is going to be in ibook's in a year? these G4's. For example, the procesor now in the ibooks low end was the top of the line G4 PM when I bought my present desktop, two years ago.

And even if they weren't going to do that in a year( in favor of G5's or something), they would stilll easily be able to get rid of their inventory,NOW, with profit-- which is the only thing they would and should care about when they have better processors, etc. just sitting on the shelf.

[johnnyjibbs]

You could argue that the earlier you buy your PowerBook G4 the more time you will have had with it (and the more value you get) before the PowerBook G5 inevitably comes out. I put that at any time from August to MWSF '05. Of course it's never nice to buy something a week before a better version comes out, even if it is still G4.

[a17inchFuture]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
You could argue that the earlier you buy your PowerBook G4 the more time you will have had with it (and the more value you get) before the PowerBook G5 inevitably comes out.

Exactly, getting my new comp four months earlier means that it'll be four months less until I buy a new one. Thus, I think that apple should try to at least, in this case of G4's, releae the new product sooner as opposed to later.

Not that I would ever want them to rush their products to release, but just that they shouldn't "sit" on any possible revisions.

[john123]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
The fact of the matter is, that if others are doing what I do, which is waiting until the newest revisions are released before purchasing (which for me has been an average of four months) then apple is losing a whole crop of those purchases, and if this practice is continued through multiple generations of hardware purchases( like i am doing it now, and will for the next ten times i buy a comp) then they ARE losing a HUGE amount fo business! Again, regardless of the facts about how much inventory they have, it doesnt seem true to me that they would need to wait to get rid of it.

What do you think is going to be in ibook's in a year? these G4's. For example, the procesor now in the ibooks low end was the top of the line G4 PM when I bought my present desktop, two years ago.

And even if they weren't going to do that in a year( in favor of G5's or something), they would stilll easily be able to get rid of their inventory,NOW, with profit-- which is the only thing they would and should care about when they have better processors, etc. just sitting on the shelf.

Yeah, some people are waiting. But some people are always waiting. Remember when the G4 desktops were introduced? It was quite a while before the G4 made its way into the PowerBook line.

I say buy what you need when you need it. If you are a person who experinces "Buyers' Regret" when new products, then try to conceptualize your purchase differently: as a fixed sum paid in advance for "rental" of your machine. You pay $150 or so a month for the privilege of using the current state-of-the-art machine...something people who wait don't pay and also don't get.

[Beck446]

I don't know about you all - I might be in the minority - but at this point, I really care more about the bells and whistles than the processor update. Apple could pretty easily standardize Airport Extreme, backlit keyboard, even memory and faster HD's wouldn't be difficult.

How about an update that doesn't even touch the processors?

I like to quantify how much each of these improvements is worth. Today's installed iLife is worth about $1. Perhaps next week we will see a little more.

[john123]

Originally posted by Beck446
I don't know about you all - I might be in the minority - but at this point, I really care more about the bells and whistles than the processor update. Apple could pretty easily standardize Airport Extreme, backlit keyboard, even memory and faster HD's wouldn't be difficult.

How about an update that doesn't even touch the processors?

I like to quantify how much each of these improvements is worth. Today's installed iLife is worth about $1. Perhaps next week we will see a little more.

Yes, of course you would, but that's part of the point. The extras don't cost a lot -- but they get people to bump up their purchase to the next models, where profit margins are higher.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by ejacob
I can not take it any more. I'm placing my order today for a 15". The update will fall within one week of when I get my Powerbook. I know this because that's what happened when I bought my PowerMac G4 733. Bigger better faster More was just one week after. AAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH.

Chill, friend,

If the update comes within ten days of when your order shipped, you can return your computer and have it replaced with the updated unit...

What really sucks is when an update comes out twelve days after a purchase...

:D

Enjoy your new machine. The current PBs are great little work-horses.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by fred_garvin
"Why wait?"

Again, look from Apple's business perspective. Once a rev is released all inventory of the old model plummets in value. They like to clear out the channel of the old product as best they can in advance.

Also, the difference between them and an IBM is:

1. They are their own market, and are not trying to match a Dell, HP, Sony spec for spec. ...

A couple of comments...

First, Apple is very much in competition with Dell, HP, Sony, etc. While it's true that they don't try to match spec for spec, they are still in competition, and, in that sense, they don't own the market.

Second, from the comments that we've been getting on this thread, it seems clear that people here have ordered PBs only to have them built, and shipped from Asia. How does that amount to stock in inventory? It seems to me that Apple's stock of PBs is somewhat low, based on the delivery delays that we've been seeing from our fellow forum dwellers...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by john123
Yeah, some people are waiting. But some people are always waiting. Remember when the G4 desktops were introduced? It was quite a while before the G4 made its way into the PowerBook line.

I say buy what you need when you need it. If you are a person who experinces "Buyers' Regret" when new products, then try to conceptualize your purchase differently: as a fixed sum paid in advance for "rental" of your machine. You pay $150 or so a month for the privilege of using the current state-of-the-art machine...something people who wait don't pay and also don't get.

Yes, but the frustration that people always try to avoid is the feeling that, if you get a machine just when it's announced, then you pay $60 per month for the use of it until the next model is released. Whereas, if you buy a machine a couple of weeks before the next model is released, you could be paying $60 a day for the use of that machine.

In general, I agree with you. Buy what you need when you need it. If you need a PowerBook now, then get one. If you don't need one now, but you know that you'll need one in the not too distant future, then wait for the new model.

Either way, don't fret over it... ;)

[pigwin32]

Originally posted by Beck446
I don't know about you all - I might be in the minority - but at this point, I really care more about the bells and whistles than the processor update. Apple could pretty easily standardize Airport Extreme, backlit keyboard, even memory and faster HD's wouldn't be difficult.

How about an update that doesn't even touch the processors?

I'm taking the holistic approach and I agree the bells and whistles are important. My current TiBook is sufficient and getting less so. I'm starting to get really annoyed with my airport reception or rather the lack of, I'm due to get a bluetooth phone this week, I've got some really great footage (read "clips of my little boy") I would like to slap on a dvd.

All of these things I could improve right now with a new 15. Speed isn't a big issue for me, the speed improvements in 10.3 help plus I installed a 7200 drive. I think the screens are probably due for a refresh.

But the resale on G4 laptops is going to take a dive when the G5 PB is released. Plus I'm inclined to think they aren't too far away, I think it's safe to assume Apple have had samples of the new processors for a while. I don't believe the heat issues are insurmountable or necessarily a big issue. The 90nm G5 is reported to use around 12W at 1.4GHz but the chips also have PowerTune technology as reported in November on MacRumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031119182013.shtml) that may further alleviate the heat issue.

I guess I'm just going to wait and see.

[Bilba]

Thats exactly what I have been saying all along. It dosent take much to make us all happy with a new powerbook (or at least most of us).

faster hard drive, 1 dimm of 512, minor speed bump, better graphic card and a faster superdrive would be more than enough.

At least this way we will know that we are safe for the the next few months (from a long due update).

[dryvlee]

With or without an update in hardware, my 17 in Powerbook is coming......since I ordered about a month ago. This is very unusual!

[BagelTycoon]

Originally posted by fred_garvin
"Why wait?"

Again, look from Apple's business perspective. Once a rev is released all inventory of the old model plummets in value. They like to clear out the channel of the old product as best they can in advance.

IMO, for folks keyed up on a new PBook today, not tomorrow, it only makes sense to go the refurbed route, save some $$$, and get it all tricked out with gobs of cheap RAM

[aryeh]

pigwin32,

Just wondering which 7200 drive you installed in your 15" powerbook? And who did you get to install it? I'm thinking of doing the same thing.

Aryeh
www.Har-Even.com

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by pigwin32
SNIP

But the resale on G4 laptops is going to take a dive when the G5 PB is released. Plus I'm inclined to think they aren't too far away, I think it's safe to assume Apple have had samples of the new processors for a while. I don't believe the heat issues are insurmountable or necessarily a big issue. The 90nm G5 is reported to use around 12W at 1.4GHz but the chips also have PowerTune technology as reported in November on MacRumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031119182013.shtml) that may further alleviate the heat issue.

I guess I'm just going to wait and see.

Yep...:(

[dryvlee]

So what's next? Watch out for next Tuesday? My 17 in is arriving tomorrow! Let's see if iLife4 is shipped with it.

[pigwin32]

Originally posted by aryeh
Just wondering which 7200 drive you installed in your 15" powerbook? And who did you get to install it? I'm thinking of doing the same thing.

The Hitachi 60GB (actually 55.89GB, what's that about), awesome drive, installed it myself because my TiBook is outside warranty anyway. If your PB is still under warranty get a certified Apple repair shop to install it. More details at xlr8yourmac (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/IDE/hitachi_travelstar60GB_7200/travelstar60GB_7200rpm.html).

[johnnyjibbs]

Reading those instructions, I'd be inclined to leave mine exactly as it is. Currently, I'd have to downgrade my 80GB to 60 at the cost of a 180GB FireWire drive. Not to mention 12" possible heat issues.

Maybe in 3 or 4 years, I could slip in a fast terrabyte drive! :D

[rellim311]

I'm new here, but have been following this thread for awhile because I really want a PBG5. I found this article yesterday and thought I'd post it.


http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2003/tc20031217_5848_tc056.htm

[a17inchFuture]

Again, more models of the PB are on sale in the refurbished area of the Apple site. The present-day version of the 17 inch is present, something that was true a couple of days ago for the first time (before being sold promptly), and now for the second time a PB with the same specifications as the full priced one is being sold for a discounted price..

Hopefully, this means they getting rid of their inventory in preperation for their new release! In addition, teh persent 12 inch model is on sale too.

Maybe they are plannign on updating the 12 and 17 inch models more heavily, as the 15 inch was the highly touted upgrade in the last revision.


Say a little prayer for PB's . . . .

[a17inchFuture]

P.S. This is why Mac' compeltely rule Windows....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040210/tc_nm/tech_microsoft_dc_4

Silly windows, virsuses are for you.

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
Again, more models of the PB are on sale in the refurbished area of the Apple site. The present-day version of the 17 inch is present, something that was true a couple of days ago for the first time (before being sold promptly), and now for the second time a PB with the same specifications as the full priced one is being sold for a discounted price..

Hopefully, this means they getting rid of their inventory in preperation for their new release! In addition, teh persent 12 inch model is on sale too.

Maybe they are plannign on updating the 12 and 17 inch models more heavily, as the 15 inch was the highly touted upgrade in the last revision.


Say a little prayer for PB's . . . .

I like your optimism, but it would suggest that is simply means that they have some 12" and 17" returns.

edit:
I just check the Apple refurbished page and the only 17" PB I saw was the 1 GHz, not the current model (1.33 GHz).

[a17inchFuture]

I guess they go that quickly, because it was there this morning

[GroundLoop]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
I guess they go that quickly, because it was there this morning

Yes, they go very quickly. Both 15" models were on there yesterday for a few hours.

Hickman

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by pigwin32
The Hitachi 60GB (actually 55.89GB, what's that about)...

That's the difference between GigaBytes and GibaBytes.

1 GigaByte = 1000000000 Bytes

1 GibaByte = 1073741824 Bytes

GigaBytes are base ten, whereas GibaBytes are base 2.

[BagelTycoon]

Originally posted by Brian Hickman
Yes, they go very quickly. Both 15" models were on there yesterday for a few hours.

Hickman

Check early & often on the refurbed site.

Folks from the Windy City should know.

:)

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by Brian Hickman
Yes, they go very quickly. Both 15" models were on there yesterday for a few hours.

Hickman

That is my point. They are just piecemeal returns that trickle in and sell out quickly. It is in no way Apple getting rid of inventory before an update.
Which is what was originally said.

[kwtneo]

i'm thinking of getting the 15" PB soon. should i go ahead or should i wait for the updates?

[Bilba]

1M$ question......

[a17inchFuture]

I agree its probably not them trying to get rid of inventory, but they have not had 1.33 on the site since i have been checking (well over two months), with the exception of the last week when two at least have been on the site and purchased, and I thought that it was peculiar in the wake of all this possible pb update rumors, they suddenly have refurbished versons of all three of the present models, down to ghz's.

I hope it means something, perhaps they are using the never-purchased chips in returned old aluminum cases or something. Refurbished means apple could have either stripped and re-put together models or just fixed what was wrong (as companies do both when they sell items as "refurbished")and therefore, this could be a possibility. Point is they now seem to be selling refurbished 1.33 in the 17, and 1.25 in the 15, and 1 in the 12, something I had not seen before the last 1.5 weeks.

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
I agree its probably not them trying to get rid of inventory, but they have not had 1.33 on the site since i have been checking (well over two months), with the exception of the last week when two at least have been on the site and purchased, and I thought that it was peculiar in the wake of all this possible pb update rumors, they suddenly have refurbished versons of all three of the present models, down to ghz's.

I hope it means something, perhaps they are using the never-purchased chips in returned old aluminum cases or something. Refurbished means apple could have either stripped and re-put together models or just fixed what was wrong (as companies do both when they sell items as "refurbished")and therefore, this could be a possibility. Point is they now seem to be selling refurbished 1.33 in the 17, and 1.25 in the 15, and 1 in the 12, something I had not seen before the last 1.5 weeks.

See the problem is that with all the unfulfilled rumors of late, I have lost my optimism. I still suspect that it is just refurbs coming in now that the new PB's have been out for a while.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
...I still suspect that it is just refurbs coming in now ...that the new PB's have been out for a while. pjkelnhofer, if and when these two thing happen at the same time, you can rest assured that NEW PowerBook models are about to be released:
1. SALE prices on current stock are authorized by Apple-- to help Dealers move old inventory out of their warehouses.
2. SOME warehouses, here and there, are out of this PB model or that, and "back orders" are either not being taken "at this time" or are conditional upon receipt of new shipments (upgraded kind at same old price, hopefully).

CONCLUSION: Apple has been quietly notiyfing catalog companies like MacZone, MacMall, OWC, etc. and other authorized dealers, that
a. No more orders of PowerBook model xxx will be filled nor shipments made.
b. Apple's supply of certain PowerBooks is low, hard to get, or OUT.
c. Apple is authorizing specific discounts (which are not otherwise done) on existing stock (so, get rid of what you have fast); and
d. Apple confidentially indicates to Dealers that the release of certain PowerBooks is close, so get your warehouse in order, or
e. Apple quietly permits wholesale orders to be made for new product at new prices and even for product to be delivered to Dealer Warehouses and HELD on the STRICT CONDITION that the Dealer will NOT disclose their existence to anyone, and that they will NOT sell them until the "Release Date" or they receive written permission and instructions from Apple. Often, store outlets receive DO NOT OPEN until instructed Boxes of Merchandise where strange PACKING SLIPS are not matched by any INVOICE. Hey, it's a SECRET, keep your mouth shut, and DON'T TOUCH NOTHIN'.

Apple permits advance purchases only from Dealers it knows can be trusted.

If these things were not true, how do you suppose that within minutes of Apple announcing a new release, Mac catalog stores have photos of the product on line and already incorporated into Ads, new prices are listed, and orders are ready to be taken?
Then we start getting eMail ads...
Plus, the Dealers already know what printer deals are available, RAM upgrades permitted, etc., right?

That's when the rumor mills start grinding Apple grist...
:p

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by MacRAND
pjkelnhofer, if and when these two thing happen at the same time, you can rest assured that NEW PowerBook models are about to be released:
1. SALE prices on current stock are authorized by Apple-- to help Dealers move old inventory out of their warehouses.
2. SOME warehouses, here and there, are out of this PB model or that, and "back orders" are either not being taken "at this time" or are conditional upon receipt of new shipments (upgraded kind at same old price, hopefully).

...snip...

That's when the rumor mills start grinding Apple grist...
:p [/B]

I agree with everything you wrote. My point is that those things are not happening at least I have not seen anything along the lines of what you describe happening... yet.

My original point (many posts ago) was the appearance of current models in the refurb store (especially when it is one or two units that sell out instantly) is not something that you can based imminent updates upon (at least not without grasping for straws).

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by MacRAND
...If these things were not true, how do you suppose that within minutes of Apple announcing a new release, Mac catalog stores have photos of the product on line and already incorporated into Ads, new prices are listed, and orders are ready to be taken?
Then we start getting eMail ads...
Plus, the Dealers already know what printer deals are available, RAM upgrades permitted, etc., right?


Well, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple had a PR package that was released via email at the same time as their product announcement. That would provide these retailers with all the photos that they'd need of the new product, plus any other information.

Just knowing Apple's level of secrecy, I find it a little hard to believe that they'd be quite that open. Besides, isn't the whole logic behind the Tuesday announcements that they can begin shipping product right after the announcement and it will reach retail stores by the weekend?

[a17inchFuture]

What do you know .. .. this morning there are three more refurbed powerbooks that happen to be the most recent version of all three sizes, 1 in the 12 inch, 1.25 in teh 15, and 1.33 in the 17. In case whats his name cant make it to the site in time to believe me today, here it is:

PowerBook G4 867MHz/256MB/40GB/SuperDrive/E/12"TFT - Refurbished Add $1,399.00
PowerBook G4 1GHz/256MB/40GB/SuperDrive/E/12"TFT Add $1,549.00
PowerBook G4 1GHz/256MB/60GB/Combo/GigE/15"TFT - Refurbished Add $1,699.00
PowerBook G4 1.25GHz/512MB/80GB/SuperDrive/AP Extreme Card/GigE/15"TFT - Refurbished Add $2,099.00
PowerBook G4 1GHz/512MB/60GB/SuperDrive/AP Extreme Card/GigE/56K/17"TFT - Refurbished Add $2,199.00

PowerBook G4 1.33GHz/512MB/80GB/SuperDrive/AP Extreme Card/GigE/17"TFT Add $2,499.00


This would be the second day in a row they have had the present versions of all three as soon as the morning starts.

Also as a side note, I would like to point out that on the present day model of the 17 and 12 inch models, it doesnt even say "refurbished" next to the price, like it does on all the rest. It says refurbished next to each individual item EXCEPT the present version of the 12 in ch and 17

The header for the PB section says "Units subject to stringent refurbishment process prior to sale. " Well, why would they restate this on every model they "resell", yet not on the 12 or 17 inch of the most recent versions?

Maybe they aren't listed as refurbished for a reason. . . .

Keep hope alive, this is starting to look somewhat promising to me.

[hikikomori9000]

The header for the PB section says "Units subject to stringent refurbishment process prior to sale. " Well, why would they restate this on every model they "resell", yet not on the 12 or 17 inch of the most recent versions?

It's an oversight. Clicking on the arrow to the left of the product takes you to a details screen where it's clear that the current generation discounted models are refurbs.

Speaking as someone who had been watching refurb availability throughout November and December, and who couldn't wait any longer and jumped in and placed an order for one of the $2099 refurb 1.25 15"s a week before MacWorld, current refurb availability doesn't seem any different than it has been for the past several months.

My refurb shipped the day before the keynote at MacWorld. It was my first Apple. I was sweating bullets with all the rumors. Right now, I'm sure I did the right thing. I got the laptop a few days after the keynote, and I couldn't be happier with what I bought, when I bought it, and for how much.

No dead pixels. No white spots. No blemishes on the case. Panther CDs were in the box. It's been working like a charm since the moment I bought it. True joy.

[Bilvox]

No dead pixels. No white spots. No blemishes on the case. Panther CDs were in the box. It's been working like a charm since the moment I bought it. True joy.

so... buying a refurb isnt risky? or is it? Is it worth saving a few bucks or knowing where th computer has been from day one?

I am definatly going to buy the 15" powerbook... the only hold out right now is I am waiting until my company does the bonus allotment etc so I can go ahead a purchase it.
I am also hoping that me waiting until i have conformation about any pay increase/bonus will mean that by early March maybe the newies will have a price drop of those detailed improvements macosrumors details and I will have the moola.

all this waiting is nerve racking and I have been reading this thread for a while now... but at least tis entertaining and educational.
cheers
-bilvox

[hikikomori9000]

so... buying a refurb isnt risky? or is it? Is it worth saving a few bucks or knowing where th computer has been from day one?

Given that Apple gives their refurbs the same factory warranty that the new machines have, the risk of a severe problem seems to be minimized. To me, the warranty and the Apple-factory repackaging says that the refurbished machines are looked over and are going to be operationally as good as new -- and the savings of $500 far, far outweighed the risk of having a machine with minor blemishes. (On the other hand, I really wouldn't consider an eBay or an "open-box" machine that didn't carry a factory warranty.)

But I'm a little bit curious, too. My experience may not be the norm. I've seen very little in the forums about the quality of Apple's current refurbished gear, and I was actually expecting something far more, well, refurbished than the pristine unit that was in the box. Has anyone else here purchased an Apple factory refurb? What was it like?

[Marc the Mac]

I notice that Macwarehouse stock has been like this all this week now.

[Marc the Mac]

I also notice dabs stock appears like this.

[Snowy_River]

Hmmm....

And the thought plickens...

[a17inchFuture]

Hey what is dabs?

Looks like good news, keep wishing . . ..

[Marc the Mac]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
Hey what is dabs?

Looks like good news, keep wishing . . ..

Dabs is at www.dabs.com
and
www.macwarehouse.co.uk
Both UK mac resellers

[BagelTycoon]

Originally posted by hikikomori9000
...I'm a little bit curious, too. My experience may not be the norm. I've seen very little in the forums about the quality of Apple's current refurbished gear, and I was actually expecting something far more, well, refurbished than the pristine unit that was in the box. Has anyone else here purchased an Apple factory refurb? What was it like?

I bought a refurbed Airport Extreme within a few weeks after they first showed up on Apple's refurbed site, and couldn't be happier.

Same warranty , $40 less (at the time), not a blemish, speedy delivery, and it worked like a charm.

Why pay retail? :)

[aswitcher]

Third party sellers dumping powerbooks could just mean they expect and update but are non the wiser than we are... shame really...:(

[dryvlee]

My new 17in Powerbook arrived today after a lag of 3-4 weeks after I placed my order. There was a white patch at the lower left corner of the LCD screen. I rejected the Powerbook and asked the dealer to arrange for another unit.

I heard clicking sound (about 3 clicks) coming from the Superdrive whenever I press the button to boot-up the Powerbook. Does any of you 15 or 17in Powerbk-with-Superdrive owners experience this??

Thanks!

[a17inchFuture]

Again, the site has all versions of the most recent models selling in their refurbished area:

Refurbished PowerBooks
Units subject to stringent refurbishment process prior to sale.
PowerBook G4 867MHz/256MB/40GB/Combo/E/12"TFT - Refurbished Add $1,199.00
PowerBook G4 867MHz/256MB/40GB/SuperDrive/E/12"TFT - Refurbished Add $1,399.00
PowerBook G4 1GHz/256MB/40GB/Combo/E/12"TFT Add $1,349.00
PowerBook G4 867MHz/256MB/40GB/Combo/GigE/56K/15"TFT - Refurbished Add $1,499.00
PowerBook G4 1GHz/256MB/40GB/SuperDrive/E/12"TFT Add $1,549.00
PowerBook G4 1GHz/256MB/60GB/Combo/GigE/15"TFT - Refurbished Add $1,699.00
PowerBook G4 1GHz/512MB/60GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K/AirPort Card/15"TFT - Refurbished Add $1,899.00
PowerBook G4 1.25GHz/512MB/80GB/SuperDrive/AP Extreme Card/GigE/15"TFT - Refurbished Add $2,099.00
PowerBook G4 1GHz/512MB/60GB/SuperDrive/AP Extreme Card/GigE/56K/17"TFT - Refurbished Add $2,199.00
PowerBook G4 1.33GHz/512MB/80GB/SuperDrive/AP Extreme Card/GigE/17"TFT Add $2,499.00

Perhaps they are actually getting 17 inch returns everyday, but i think its strange that this has happened with such consistency of late, and especially in stark contrast with the way NONE of the new models were on the refurb page before this past week and a half.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by dryvlee
My new 17in Powerbook arrived today after a lag of 3-4 weeks ...
There was a white patch at the lower left corner of the LCD screen.
I rejected the Powerbook and asked the dealer to arrange for another unit.

I heard clicking sound (about 3 clicks) coming from the Superdrive whenever I press the button to boot-up the Powerbook.
Does any of you 15 or 17in Powerbk-with-Superdrive owners experience this??
Sorry to hear that your new PowerBook arrived defective, Doc. :(

The clicking sound you heard coming from the SuperDrive may either be simply from turning the drive ON automatically upon booting up, or may have to do with the drive's program to physically "look for a disk at Start Up" command, which shouldn't happen without a disk actually being present-as far as hearing anything. If a disk is present, your Mac will then start up the laser drive to determine the kind of disk (CD or DVD) and then read it to find out if it is an OS X installation disc, which may then have priority over the Hard Drive as the Start Up Disk. Otherwise, if it is data or software (not an OS X disk), then the system will start the music, photo images, or whatever according to your Preferences, and open an appropriate iApp or just the content window itself.

Since you rejected the unit because of the screen defect, the laser drive problem will be addressed by Apple techs when they run a full hardware check upon receiving a "return". Sounds like your PB may have been a "lemon" with more than a few things wrong with it (screen, laser drive, something else?). It's likely that its replacement when delivered to you will make you much happier. ;)

Currently, there do appear to be a few indirect indications (as cited in this thread over the last few days) that Apple may be preparing for a new PowerBook release by closing out the old line and thereby causing a shortages at stores, combined with a
rush of refurbished current-model PB Macs to resale online, or
this may all be a coincidence. :confused:

If these signs do fortell an impending release, the defect giving you a good excuse to reject a long awaited PowerBook may be a "wind fall". Wouldn't it be nice to receive an upgrade to the level of any new release, even if it is only a speed-bump?
Regardless, your patience should be well rewarded.
The MacGoddess smiles upon you. :D

[BagelTycoon]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
Again, the site has all versions of the most recent models selling in their refurbished area ... Perhaps they are actually getting 17 inch returns everyday, but i think its strange that this has happened with such consistency of late, and especially in stark contrast with the way NONE of the new models were on the refurb page before this past week and a half.

Totally not true.

Apple has been unloading all of these refurbed PBooks since roughly Nov. '03. Though the entire PBook line may not be in refurbed stock on the same day, this is not the first time it is.

Perhaps the biggest change is that now you only see refurbed product that's in stock. Previously, the entire product line would be shown, but in-stock items would have to have that clickable red 'Add' button next to the price.

[dryvlee]

Thank you MacRand. Don't think I will get a speedbump Powerbook but will let you know when I see the replacement.

Since I am upgrading from the first generation TiBk, I don't mind the old 1.33GHz 17in Powerbk as long as it is not a lemon. I had to upgrade as the hinge of my TiBk broke due to a careless fall.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by dryvlee
Thank you MacRand. Don't think I will get a speedbump Powerbook but will let you know when I see the replacement. IBM Announces New Chip Making Method
Friday February 13, 2004 08:31 AM EST
Posted by arn

IBM officially announced that it is producing the PowerPC 970FX today based on "a new method of manufacturing to make microprocessors that consume less power".

The new manufacturing process for the new chips includes silicon-on-insulator, strained silicon and copper wiring based on a 90nm chip making process. The resulting chip "which can process vast amounts of computer memory compared with a standard 32-bit chip, can either run at faster speeds or use less power".

According to Richard Doherty, research director at Envisioneering, "It's logical that Apple would select the flexibility of this chip for a next-generation notebook computer."

G5 PowerBook soon?
Low power consumption & heat with a little less speed in a G5? :p

[Bilba]

I am trying to get the opinion of this forum's members. Do you think that Apple will wait for the G5 before updating the current line?

[a17inchFuture]

There are two possibilities as far as i am concerned: they could either update to G5 soon, as they probably knew about these chips long ago, or they could have see their original date of fall 2004 as good enough, and long enough for them to perfect a great design for the new Pb's that assures maximum output and ingenuity.

I hope it is NOT the latter, as I would love to be surprised by G5 powerbooks much earlier. I would easily buy a G5 even if it was first generation, because I woudl most certainly buy an applecare protection plan. As far as I am concerned, if I have that, then any problems resulting from first gen. issues would be neglegable/fixable pretty easily.

Plus, I'd have a G5 powerbook, hell yeah!

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture


Plus, I'd have a G5 powerbook, hell yeah!

Exactly what I am waiting for to damn well switch after 7 months of Applefying myself.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by aswitcher
Exactly what I am waiting for to damn well switch after 7 months of Applefying myself. So, you don't have a lick of Apple software yet? Never had a Mac before?

Keep me in mind when your Mac arrives. Then you and I and a couple other MacBlokes will connect via iChatAV and get you up to speed.

You do have a high-speed broadband (cable, microwave, etc.) connection available and you're getting an iSight or already own a DV camcorder with a FireWire connection, right? A koala phone connection won't do, mate. Not at all.

MacRand :cool:

P.S. You are going to love this DVD Backup software and site:
http://www.wormintheapple.gr/macdvd/DVDbackup.html

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by MacRAND
So, you don't have a lick of Apple software yet? Never had a Mac before?

Keep me in mind when your Mac arrives. Then you and I and a couple other MacBlokes will connect via iChatAV and get you up to speed.

You do have a high-speed broadband (cable, microwave, etc.) connection available and you're getting an iSight or already own a DV camcorder with a FireWire connection, right? A koala phone connection won't do, mate. Not at all.

MacRand :cool:

P.S. You are going to love this DVD Backup software and site:
http://www.wormintheapple.gr/macdvd/DVDbackup.html

No, I have never has a Mac before. I did a comp sci degree in the 80s and no macs in sight. Now make has come to Unix I am interested, plus the new chips etc have made the Mac a seriously interesting computer over the last year or so. G5 is the main attraction but I want a PB not a tower for the usefulness that portability brings...so I wait some more...

Have ADSL - modem got fragged in a december lightining storm so I am on dialup until I get my mac...

[stockscalper]

Traditionally the vast majority of refurbs sold are nothing more than open box returns. Because they are returned they have to undergo strigent testing and thus become "refurbs". With all the returns due to screen, latch and other problems with the early AL books I'm sure Apple was flooded with machines that actually had to be repaired and then put out for resell. So, I wouldn't read much into the number of refurbs availbable in terms of it meaning a new line is coming out. What I would read into it is that if you are in the market for a PB and want to save some big bucks I would buy one. I"ve bought two in the past and both were just like new.

[theISHkid]

Hey i'm not 100% sure about this... so if i'm wrong and someone else knows please don't get all anal about it.

I've been checking the apple store just about every morning since MSFW on the developer page because i'm signed up for a student developer and because I'm waiting for the next powerbook revision... Well like i said i might be wrong but I think the 15" and the 17" have come down in price since over the weekend... or at lease since the last week. It's one of those things that just looks a little different to me. Does anyone else know if this is accurate? Does anyone else check the student developer site?

[Bilba]

you got me all excited for nothing :)

Developer prices are exactly the same (at least for the 15" model).
Base model is 1,599$, and highend model is 2,079$.

I know since I am monitoring these prices on a daily basis. I am actually waiting for a pricedrop or new model before placing an order for one.

Keep hoping, keep looking.

[UofI MacConvert]

Well that makes 3 of us waiting for developer price drops. I have been waiting since I decided to go mac in Feb. Does anyone think that only the 12 and 17 will get updates since the 15" was updated later than the other ones? That is what my local dealer was speculating.
I signed up for the developer package so I wouldnt be tempted to get a PC anymore. Now if apple would just hurry up with those updates.
Just another hopeful mac convert.

[theISHkid]

Not to get anyones hopes up but searching around the net at 4 in the morning cst... I went to the Apple web site and went into their support forums and this is what I found at the top of the page...

Tomorrow morning, 18-Feb-2004, there is a planned service interruption beginning approximately 9:00 am Central Standard Time. Posting will be disabled during this time and web service may be entirely unavailable. This maintenance is expected to take at least several hours.
Thank you,
Apple Discussions Staff


So I think this might just be for the support forums of apples site, but from what I heard from other people is that apple generally updates their site starting at 9:00 am. Now this one seems to mainly say that posting will be disabled but also says that the whole web service may be unavailable... So could we see something new to the store later on today? Does this mean anything at all? I guess I won't get too many responses and I'll have my answer by the time I wake up, but what do you all think?

[a17inchFuture]

I sure hope so. It would be great if hey updated tomorrow, but from what we have head, typically new products are released on tuesdays, so its a little uncharacteristic.

Also, with the ipod mini actually coming out on friday, I am sure they wouldn't release something to overshadow that.

While I hope you are right, and that new items await us, I must say I doubt it will be tomorrow.

[173080]

I want to buy a 15" PowerBook. I dont *need* it right now, so if the updates are coming soon for sure I guess I could wait. When do you guys think they will be updated? Do you have anything to back it up?

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by Huezo
I want to buy a 15" PowerBook. I dont *need* it right now, so if the updates are coming soon for sure I guess I could wait. When do you guys think they will be updated? Do you have anything to back it up? Good. :)
Wait. :rolleyes:
Soon. :confused:
No, not really. :p

:eek: Profile, Huezo. Profile. :cool:

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Huezo
I want to buy a 15" PowerBook. I dont *need* it right now, so if the updates are coming soon for sure I guess I could wait. When do you guys think they will be updated? Do you have anything to back it up?

I really wouldn't recommend it now, not unless you need it. It may be a few days or a couple of months until the update is released, but it is coming.

[Beck446]

Yeah this is really killing me. I've got lots of financial reasons why it would make sense for me to buy now. I just can't bring myself to buy one of these current models. Arg!

[aswitcher]

I'm ditto for about half the last dozen posts...

I figure February is truley iTuned and iPoded out, so maybe March for my first Mac...

[a17inchFuture]

Originally posted by Beck446
Yeah this is really killing me. I've got lots of financial reasons why it would make sense for me to buy now. I just can't bring myself to buy one of these current models. Arg!

The only financial thing where you could NOT save your money for a short while longer would be an apple offer, so my guess is that you are talking about apple eduaction program. I am sure they will update soemtime before the summer, and if you are in school, you should be able to wait that long.

If I am wrong, good luck with whatever.

EDIT: Also, as a side note, if you wait, you will only have to wait until the new ones are announced, too, to purchase it. So if Apple decides release the G5 powerbooks in August, they could be announced as early as june. Which would be when you (theoretically a college student) could still get it for cheaper

[DieselClown]

I'm waiting patiently for this to happen. I almost bought a 12 inch powerbook in Jan but heard about this rumor. I recently sold my brand new toshiba laptop 2 weeks out of the box taking an 800 dollar loss but I'm glad I stumbled upon this page before I bought the PB. I just hope now that we receive some more solid information on the dates the updates arrive. I'll be using the PB primarily for writing/editing and would eventually like to get into desktop publishing. I'm beating myself up for not even considering an apple before I dumped my money on the toshiba.

I started out with a 66 mghz apple back in the days. Can't wait to rejoin the apple community.

ciao

[stockscalper]

I would read anything into Apple's forums being down. I'm a frequent poster over there and they are always down for maintenance; must be using Dell servers :p

[a17inchFuture]

plus, that warning indicator for when it was going to be down has already passed. The morning of the 18th was 12 hours before you even posted that fact!

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by DieselClown
I almost bought a 12 inch powerbook in Jan but heard about this rumor. I recently sold my brand new toshiba laptop 2 weeks out of the box taking an 800 dollar loss ... I'll be using the PB primarily for writing/editing and would eventually like to get into desktop publishing. Dude, don't be like a clown at the circus trying to put 6 big clowns in a micro Mini Cooper! Get a Dodge Dorango 15" and put 6 big clowns in it.
Seriously, the screen on a 12" is for portable convenience like a large PDA, not for really serious writing and desktop publishing! You need some middle ground real estate to work with, not a 17" but at least the 15".
Go 15" PowerBook, max it out like the thread says, and buy when you have to if you can't out wait the next release. And, for heavens sake, don't wait for the G5 PB release unless you are prepared for a siege of months, maybe a year if they have trouble getting it right. Tech takes time and work. ;)
Welcome back to Mac :D

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by DieselClown
...I just hope now that we receive some more solid information on the dates the updates arrive...

I wouldn't hold your breath for more solid dates. They're all just rumors until Apple officially announces them... :D

[BowiPod]

my two cents....

I'm writing a PhD on my 12" and don't have a problem with the screen at all.....

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by MacRAND
Dude, don't be like a clown at the circus trying to put 6 big clowns in a micro Mini Cooper! Get a Dodge Dorango 15" and put 6 big clowns in it.
Seriously, the screen on a 12" is for portable convenience like a large PDA, not for really serious writing and desktop publishing! You need some middle ground real estate to work with, not a 17" but at least the 15".
Go 15" PowerBook, max it out like the thread says, and buy when you have to if you can't out wait the next release. And, for heavens sake, don't wait for the G5 PB release unless you are prepared for a siege of months, maybe a year if they have trouble getting it right. Tech takes time and work. ;)
Welcome back to Mac :D

Just for the record, I have a 12" PB that I use for various types of design work, including 3D CAD design, graphic design, web design, etc. While I wouldn't mind more screen realestate, the lack isn't that significant, and I absolutely love the smaller form factor. Plus, when I'm working on something that needs more space, I plug into my external monitor. So, I'd dispute your assertion that the 12" is like an oversized PDA and not suitable to serious writing and desktop publishing.

That said, I got my 12" about a year ago. I had originally planned to get the 15", but I didn't want the Ti, given the price premium. To this day I don't regret getting the 12". I might consider the 15" again when the PB G5 comes out.

[ratspg]

March march march, i don't think anything is happening non-music related until then :(

[ejacob]

Just got my new 15" 1.25Ghz Pbook.

This makes a new powerbook out in 2 to 3 weeks a lock. It has always been so.

BTW this machine rocks! I loved my pismo but this bad boy is fantastic.

I can't imagine a G5!

To all those who can wait: Enjoy that G5!!!

-EJ :eek:

[UofI MacConvert]

This makes a new powerbook out in 2 to 3 weeks a lock. It has always been so.

Why does your new book mean there will be updates for sure?

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by UofI MacConvert
This makes a new powerbook out in 2 to 3 weeks a lock. It has always been so.

Why does your new book mean there will be updates for sure?

Because that's life :p

[a17inchFuture]

Originally posted by ratspg
March march march, i don't think anything is happening non-music related until then :(

Thank God February is a short month . . . .

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
Thank God February is a short month . . . .

Damn leap year...:mad:

[Bilvox]

arrrgh its so crappy waiting to see what will happen in the next 2 weeks with the powerbook. Luckily I am waiting to see if I get any sort of company bonus to pay for my 15pb, so really i am waiting on that. But as the PB goes I know its near the end of a cycle... but I figure if by 2 weeks time I hear nothing I am totally going to go ahead and order it. Now if only i can wait...
-bilvox







http://www.bilvox.com

[deejemon]

*

[Bilvox]

so I just happened to check this, and seems like we have reached a benched mark,

from the buyers guide for the powerbook...
"Days Since Update: 163 (Average = 163) "

Let's see what next week brings... or at least the next 3 weeks haha.

damn patience!
-bilvox






http://www.bilvox.com/

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by Bilvox
so I just happened to check this, and seems like we have reached a benched mark,

from the buyers guide for the powerbook...
"Days Since Update: 163 (Average = 163) "

Let's see what next week brings... or at least the next 3 weeks haha.

damn patience!
-bilvox

http://www.bilvox.com/

And so March rolls on, as the hopeful watch with the eagerness of Christmas that Apple will deliver soon. All I can say, is it better NOT actually be Christmas 2004 until G5PBs arrive!

[dryvlee]

Ordered my 17in 1.33GHz Powerbook on 16 Jan 04, Got it on 13 Feb 04, had white patch so rejected it, replacement received on 16 Feb 04, still has a fainter white patch, send to Apple service centre on 25 Feb 04, got it back on 26 Feb 04, screen is OK now, no dead pixels yet...

Anyway iLife 04 came with the Powerbook on 13 Feb 04.

If the new Powerbook gets annouced next week with a drop in price of the current range, I get my rebate (price protection of 60 days!)

[FatSweatyChimp]

Dryvlee - what would happen if your Powerbook was discontinued? Could you swap it for one of the new ones?

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by aswitcher
And so March rolls on, as the hopeful watch with the eagerness of Christmas that Apple will deliver soon. All I can say, is it better NOT actually be Christmas 2004 until G5PBs arrive!
I wouldn't get your hopes up! We will have an update way before Christmas but it is very likely going to be G4. The next rev after that which will likely be G5 will probably happen around October-December time, maybe even MWSF '05.

We have only just hit the average update interval for PowerBooks and, remember, that is skewed by the < 2 month gap between Superdrive TiBook and new 12/17" PBs in Nov 2002 and Jan 2003 resepctively. So, we could still be waiting another moneth or two or three.

FatSweatyChimp: no PowerBooks will likely be discontinued. If that were the case, you'd get a price drop that was comparable to the nearest model.

Regarding when each of the PowerBooks goes G5, I say that I would bet 99% sure that they will all go G5 at the same time. It would be stupid for the 12 to stay G4 while the 15 or even just 17" went G5. I doubt there will be any noticable form factor change, but it would fragment the line way too much IMO and be a marketing nightmare.

[dryvlee]

I agree. Usually when a new powerbook model is announced, the older model will get a price cut or even sometimes before announcement. Usually the older model still exist in the distributor chain although Apple has 'discontinued' the production (EOL). For example, when I ordered my 17in Powerbook 1.33, the older 17in Powerbook 1GHz is still available but the price has dropped significantly.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by dryvlee
... when a new powerbook model is announced, the older model will get a price cut or even sometimes before announcement.
Usually the older model still exist in the distributor chain although Apple has 'discontinued' the production (EOL). For example,
when I ordered my 17in Powerbook 1.33, the older 17in Powerbook 1GHz is still available but the
price has dropped significantly. Will Apple continue a line of G4 PBs once G5 PBs are released?

YES. I think a line of G4 PowerBooks will continue to sell well.

Although I agree that once there is a bump in G4 speeds, the old line of G4 PBs will disappear, I do believe there is a distinct possibility that
G4 PowerBooks as a separate Line will continue independently (especially the 15", probably the 12", but not the 17") after the G5s are introduced for several reasons --
• G4 PowerMac 1.25GHz sales and availability have continued even in the face of competiton from G5 PowerMacs. FACT: not everyone wants a G5 PowerPC! There is a market for a G4 PPC especially a Dual (which in many ways gives a single CPU G5 a run for its money!!! I'm not ready to abandon my Dual 1GHz PPC for a 1st generation G5 quite yet; maybe 2nd G)
• not everyone will be enthusiastic about being an early adopter of G5 PowerBooks, too many experienced, cautious, MacAddicts out there...
• G4 PB at a lower than current price would be very attractive to those who want more than an iBook but don't want to pay for a G5 PB; just as
• G3 iBooks at a lower than current G4 iBook prices are very attractive to those who want a laptop but don't want to pay G4 iBook, or G4 / G5 PowerBook prices.
• Dropping the price of the G4 line significantly would be possible because manufacturing setup costs have already been recovered, production at current plant locations is on a groove, quality control problems have already been ironed out, and profit would still be there without any worry about cutting into G5 sales as long as demand exceeds supply
• Apple has to know that G5 demand will completely outstrip Supply so continuation of PB G4 models will fill a void created by VERY HIGH PRICES initially set on G5 PowerBooks for what the market place will allow until supply catches up.
• Reduced G4 PB prices would likewise have a domino affect on G4 iBook prices, making iBooks even more attractive to new laptop buyers, and more competitive with PC laptop prices as perceived by consummers. If this doen't happen for iBooks, what is the reason for their existence as entry level laptops? Apple has long needed a really low priced laptop to attract PC switchers and Mac loyalists into the laptop market. G3 iBook prices are indicitive of what can happen - tons of people are buying under $1000 G3 iBooks that would not otherwise be willing or able to. Once G3 iBooks stop filling that price niche, what will fill the void?

I would love to buy a loaded 15" PB G4 for $1999 instead of $2599, especially if G5 PowerBook 15" are $2999 or higher.

Anyone who thinks that Steve Jobs & Co. is going to introduce G5 PowerBooks at the current G4 price structure with the kind of demand that's so obviously out there, then they must believe that Apple Computer, Inc. is really part of the Salvation Army and is itself a Non-Profit organization. :p

R&D costs for development of an efficient cooling system and case for a new One Inch G5 PowerBook has got to be ugly! and Steve has to keep Apple stockholders happy, so quick recovery of those costs is going to happen. :(

Save your nickels, Boys & Girls, because we are going to need every penny we can scrape up to participate in the next generation of Macs. Financial realities of the outside world may be cold and cruel, but at least there IS a...

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by MacRAND
Will Apple continue a line of G4 PBs once G5 PBs are released?

YES. I think a line of G4 PowerBooks will continue to sell well.

Although I agree that once there is a bump in G4 speeds, the old line of G4 PBs will disappear, I do believe there is a distinct possibility that
SNIP
• Apple has to know that G5 demand will completely outstrip Supply so continuation of PB G4 models will fill a void created by VERY HIGH PRICES initially set on G5 PowerBooks for what the market place will allow until supply catches up.
SNIP
Save your nickels, Boys & Girls, because we are going to need every penny we can scrape up to participate in the next generation of Macs. Financial realities of the outside world may be cold and cruel, but at least there IS a...

I would be curious to know who else thinks the G5PB will be priced signficantly about the G4s. I know there are R&D costs to recuperate but volume of sales should allow that to be recovered overtime rather than making it unit much more expensive?

Also there has been signficant problems with screen quality for the last 6-8 months, and I think many also question the Rev A bugs, and so will take a wait and see view. Initial sales may slow quickly as many buyers hold off waiting for first reports...

[johnnyjibbs]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a small price increase in G5 PowerBooks, if they are signifcantly faster and have more features. It depends on if Apple plops a low speed G5 in there and makes it an extension of the G4, or whether it goes all out with bells and whistles and 2+ GHz and major form factor (major form factor change unlikely IMHO).

I'd be surprised that many people would hold off due to rev A possible problems. People with problems are the minority that you always hear about so it always gives the impression that every unit has a major problem. And us MacRumors people are the minority of buyers out there anyway - there are a lot of Mac buyers who will not have heard about 'white spot' problems and all the rest of it. Just my 2p.

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
I wouldn't be surprised to see a small price increase in G5 PowerBooks, if they are signifcantly faster and have more features. It depends on if Apple plops a low speed G5 in there and makes it an extension of the G4, or whether it goes all out with bells and whistles and 2+ GHz and major form factor (major form factor change unlikely IMHO).

SNIP.

Alos the G5 chips are meant to be cheaper - although cooling issues may blow that out (pun intended).

My thinking is that a G5PB should have improvements like graphics card, better screen, bigger harddisk etc because we have moved on in time and these things are now cheaper, so I would be disappointed to see a significant price hike. I think Apple should keep the price lower to keep the market penetration of their laptops/notebooks improving.

[johnnyjibbs]

I'm going on previous Apple history. For example, the base iBook went up in price (even though the 800 12" iBook G4 is significantly better than iBook 800 G3 CD-ROM it replaced) although the rest of the line dropped in price.

It would be nice not to have a price increase, but, knowing Apple, they could do that. It doesn't make any difference that the G5, etc is cheaper to get, it could just mean more profit for Apple. The marketing gain that they have for saying it's a G5 will mean they think they can justify a price increase.

I agree though, it would be nice to see Apple continue its assault on the laptop market. Certainly they have some nice competitive prices out there at the moment, considering what you get with even the low end iBook.

[Grimace]

The Apple store still has all of the Powerbooks shipping quickly - usually, they start to lag to 7-10 business days etc. when they are selling off old inventory.

[krisjon]

Granted, I ordered a custom one (just more RAM and the 5400 rpm drive), but it had to be sent from Taiwan and not stateside or Apple Store inventory. It's showing up this Thursday, finally! Not sure if this is normal, but if it's not, read what you want into it about supplies of older stock.

[Bilvox]

I happened to check on a book I ordered on amazon.com and noticed they are featuring a 100$ price drop on "apple notebooks"
Could this be just another sign? Or more ways to get our hopes up falsely?
With the reduced price on memory upgrades ending at the end of March maybe it will be towards the end of the month before we see any sort of new or reduced powerbook models.
or... tomorrow is the first tue of march...
nahhhhhh
couldnt be
;-)

-bilvox



http://www.bilvox.com

[aswitcher]

I happened to check on a book I ordered on amazon.com and noticed they are featuring a 100$ price drop on "apple notebooks"
Could this be just another sign? Or more ways to get our hopes up falsely?
With the reduced price on memory upgrades ending at the end of March maybe it will be towards the end of the month before we see any sort of new or reduced powerbook models.
or... tomorrow is the first tue of march...
nahhhhhh
couldnt be
;-)

-bilvox

SNIP

My local place just posted this deal - saving me like $500 AUD on any PB if I buy an 20 Gig iPod (which is my plan anyway)

http://www.macmall.com.au/mall/customer/home.php?cat=379

Not sure if I this means I should buy now rather than wait anything up to 6 months for what might be a tweaked G4 PB Rev C...

[rog]

I simply LOVE the new powerbooks that came out last month. They rock!

[JFreak]

is this thread ever going to die? feb-2 passed over a month ago...

[iMeowbot]

I simply LOVE the new powerbooks that came out last month. They rock!
You must have been one of the lucky few. Like many others, mine was awake all last night coughing up mucus, and I think it needs a new carburetor too.

[rog]

You must have been one of the lucky few. Like many others, mine was awake all last night coughing up mucus, and I think it needs a new carburetor too.
Actually the new ones that came out today are even better! I love Apple. Every Tuesday, a whole new reason to get excited and wait for the next one.

[JonRaven]

Today is March 31st 2004 and I watch apple's siite everyday and nothing was released yesterday.... what are you guys talking about?

jon

[reason]

its called sarcasm

[JonRaven]

ohhh.... Ok I was just making sure I didn't miss anything is all... I guess I didn't. I have been thouroughly enjoying my new 1.25 powerbook with it's gig of ram and superdrive... which I bought at the time the new ones were rumoured to come out. I am glad I boought instead of holding out!

I am having a problem with the recent OSX10.3.3 release update though... most of my USB devices have stopped working. Blasted update.

Jon

[macridah]

I don't think that apple would announce any new products at the last day of the quarter (mar 31), or april 1 (april fools day). I would guess, at the earliest april 2nd. However, i can't recall when apple announce any news on a friday. Maybe software updates, but not hardward updates. We shall see.

So if there is no news by april 6, then i might start to get a little PO'd

[Mr Maui]

Yay!! New Powerbooks Friday according to this thread!!

Oh WAIT!!!

The thread says "FEBRUARY" 2nd ... not April 2nd. :D

[iMeowbot]

Actually the new ones that came out today are even better! I love Apple. Every Tuesday, a whole new reason to get excited and wait for the next one.

You really don't mind carrying around that dewar of helium for the G7 cooler? Mistook the darned thing for my thermos this morning, and wouldn't you know my tongue shattered all over the floor. It was so embarrassing.

[Urdam]

I agree