PowerBooks on Feb 2nd? [Archive]

SiliconAddict

Jan 19, 2004, 12:10 PM

Ya know what really fries my biscuits is that Moto isn't even trying anymore I think that they have realized that Apple doesn't want a damn thing to do with them. Their chips are showing this. Why put money into a horse that is going to the glue factory anyways?

I have to imagine Apple has whips to those hardware engineers at IBM, and to the hardware engineers at Apple to churn out a solid chipset, to get them something this summer or *sighs* :( fall.
They need something, actually, ANYTHING at this point to compete against the Pentium M. Performance and power consumption for Intel's mobile CPU kicks the crap out of the G4. And do NOT tell me the G4 is good enough for the PowerBook because you would be using the same excuse PowerMac users used prior to the introduction of the G5. Fact of the matter is that the G5 needs to come to the PowerBook line as soon as humanly possible because you have users like myself that WILL NOT shell out $3,000-$4,000 on a new PowerBook just to see it get *****slapped by a comparably equipped PC notebook. I kid you not guys. I’d lick Jobs shoes right now for a G5 PowerBook.

Hey Steve. *does the phone gesture* Give me a call and we can setup a time.

crufty

Jan 19, 2004, 12:23 PM

brhmac: Overclocking is the practice of forcing a microprocessor to run faster than its factory-rated speed, usually by manipulating the bus multiplier and/or clock frequency. This is possible in some cases because chip manufacturers regularly factory-rate chips at speeds lower than what the chip could actually handle.

When Motorola announced the current line of G4s (7447 and 7457), they stated that they would be factory-rated up to 1.33GHz. However, in the first production runs, they had problems with getting many chips that were usable beyond 1.25GHz. They were also having problems with yields of the 7457 line, which differs from the 7447 only in that the 7447 can't support an external L3 cache. This is supposedly the reason why the Powerbooks dropped the L3 cache when they moved to the newer chips; rather than going with the 7457 in all Powerbooks, Apple has reportedly been using a mix of 7447s and 7457s.

The fact that PowerLogix is now selling several 1.42GHz 7457-based upgrades hopefully indicates that Moto is getting a handle on these production problems and is producing G4s in quantity at higher speeds. This would also mean that Apple may have access to higher-speed G4s now.

What may make a speed bump just a bit better than a 10% clock boost would be a move to 7457s across the board, with a reintroduction of a L3 cache. The 512K on-chip cache mitigated the effect of losing the L3 cache, but the G4 has always been starved for memory bandwidth, and I'm sure that adding the L3 cache back in would boost performance.

Note that in the past, Motorola has supplied Apple with G4s that ran significantly faster than the chip was originally designed to run. Hopefully that's not what they're doing here (shipping overclocked 1.25GHz 7457s), since in the past the extra factory-rated speed came at the cost of significantly higher voltages and heat dissipation. OWC (and Giga, and other upgrade vendors) are selling 1.3 and 1.4GHz G4 upgrades based on this older, hotter 7455 chip -- which, when announced, was never planned to ramp far beyond 1GHz.

In any case, I agree with brhmac -- a 10%, or even 20% (with L3 cache) speed bump isn't nearly enough to make the Powerbooks compelling. Hopefully Apple and IBM are on track to getting 65nm (or underclocked 90nm) G5's into the Powerbooks soon.

Stoffel

Jan 19, 2004, 12:25 PM

I do not bother about the g5 in the powerbook. my ti400 has been a good friend for the last three years. asa the 12" has the nice keyboard backlight, I will buy one. Yea.

JonRaven

Jan 19, 2004, 12:31 PM

I just ordered a custom built
Powerbook G4 1.25 - 15" laptop from apple.

I custom ordered it built with:
1 gig of ram,
80 gig 5400RPM hard drive,
and had the superdrive swapped out for the combo (cause I hate how slow the internal superdrives are yet and hey for $200 I can get a firewire 8x dvd burner)

Anyways....what I am thinking now is since I am due to recieve the powerbook this wednesday (Jan 21) would that mean apple would be giving me a rebate or something if they release an update and drop the price of the 1.25 on feb 2nd? And either way..will the update have anything else updated besides the processor?

Thanks for anyones help that can be offered!

cheers fellow mac lovers!

Jon

Snowy_River

Jan 19, 2004, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by agentmouthwash
In the meanwhile, I am enjoying my 1.25 mhz powerbook.

Wow. How old is that machine? I have a 6 year old PB3400, and it's a 200MHz machine. How far back would I have to look to find a 1.25MHz machine? ;)

Snowy_River

Jan 19, 2004, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven
I just ordered a custom built
Powerbook G4 1.25 - 15" laptop from apple.
...
Anyways....what I am thinking now is since I am due to recieve the powerbook this wednesday (Jan 21) would that mean apple would be giving me a rebate or something if they release an update and drop the price of the 1.25 on feb 2nd?

Unfortunately, Jon, I'm afraid that you're just a touch too early. I believe the general rule is that if you ordered your machine (or it shipped) a week or less before the new product is released, then you'll be bumped up to the new product. Everything else is a done deal.

JonRaven

Jan 19, 2004, 01:05 PM

You mean if I am recieving it this week then I may be actually getting the new updated product?

ITR 81

Jan 19, 2004, 01:06 PM

Well I've been saying this speed bump was going to happen 4 months ago.
But I also gave the 12inch PB a speed bump too.

But if the 1.42 comes to the 17inch in the first week of Feb..then I would expect the PB G5 would be forth coming around the sametime the G5 PM is suppose to hit 3GHz or just a month afterwards.

DHagan4755

Jan 19, 2004, 01:07 PM

I don't get why Apple would bump them so little. I would think they'd go for 1.5 or 1.6 in the top and 1.4 in the mid-range, and then 1.2 in the 12-inch. Seems like too little of a bump to make it worth doing.

Bear

Jan 19, 2004, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by DHagan4755
I don't get why Apple would bump them so little. I would think they'd go for 1.5 or 1.6 in the top and 1.4 in the mid-range, and then 1.2 in the 12-inch. Seems like too little of a bump to make it worth doing. My best guess is a bunch of litte tweaks, maybe a small price drop and the slight speed increase. They can only go as fast as the processors they can get. I'm hoping they go to 1.42 on the 15" as well. Maybe they will increase the memory buss speed as well.

Bear

Jan 19, 2004, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven
I just ordered a custom built
Powerbook G4 1.25 - 15" laptop from apple.

I custom ordered it built with:
1 gig of ram,
80 gig 5400RPM hard drive,
and had the superdrive swapped out for the combo (cause I hate how slow the internal superdrives are yet and hey for $200 I can get a firewire 8x dvd burner)
... For those who don't mind carrying an external DVD burner with them, or for those who don't need a DVD burner when they trave, it's fine.

For those who may want to burn DVDs and not have to lug an external drive around, getting the built in superdrive makes sense.

I hope you don't need to carry around the external burner too much. :D

Flyers486

Jan 19, 2004, 01:28 PM

Actually this sort of update makes perfect sense. If Apple is to update the desktop line up (either tommorow or soon there after) then the powerbooks would need to be slightly upped to keep pace with the iMacs. Apple can't have their laptop with less speed then their low end desktop can they? We'll see, but I for one expect desktop updates (across the board and new products) on the 20th aniversary and new powerbooks soon there after. Following this update, however, I think the death of the G4 is not far behind.

djdarlek

Jan 19, 2004, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Stoffel
I do not bother about the g5 in the powerbook. my ti400 has been a good friend for the last three years. asa the 12" has the nice keyboard backlight, I will buy one. Yea.

lol.. i know exactly what you mean. My ti550 has been dragged around the world, and has been a reliable companion. It may be nearly 3 years old, and has no fancy assed lights, but it does what it does well.

:D

macer1

Jan 19, 2004, 01:43 PM

the idea of a laptop is to be PORTABLE, and do the basic jobs like web work , movie edit and such not.

if you wana play games or use final cut BUY A POWERMAC.

simple.

G5's in powerbooks will be after september.

live with it.

McMike

Jan 19, 2004, 01:50 PM

Why won't they speed-bump the little PB?

It would be great if they were running 1.25 GHz. As my 1 GHz is getting so hot, I could buy the new one and put off the heating in my flat. WOW! That would make the PB cheaper...

But seriously, I can't wait G5 PB, not any speed-bumps. However I have one problem: Can anybody tell me how Apple is gonna put the G5's in the 12"? I know additional heating is great but maybe not directly on my knees!

:cool:

johnnyjibbs

Jan 19, 2004, 01:54 PM

Is your 12" really that hot? My 1GHz is nice and cool.

Cool G5s will be on the way, no worry. But half a year away at least yet.

64Meg graphics will come first (12")

fudgebrown

Jan 19, 2004, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by McMike
Why won't they speed-bump the little PB?

It would be great if they were running 1.25 GHz. As my 1 GHz is getting so hot, I could buy the new one and put off the heating in my flat. WOW! That would make the PB cheaper...

But seriously, I can't wait G5 PB, not any speed-bumps. However I have one problem: Can anybody tell me how Apple is gonna put the G5's in the 12"? I know additional heating is great but maybe not directly on my knees!

:cool:

TO get the G5 in the 12" PB: they will stick a G5 inside, and ship that model only to people in Antartica or people who live near the poles to keep them warm, and to keep the G5 cool....

yoman

Jan 19, 2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by McMike

Can anybody tell me how Apple is gonna put the G5's in the 12"? I know additional heating is great but maybe not directly on my knees!

:cool:

There will be a port available on the 12inch that will allow you to connect an air conditiong unit alllowing the freon to circulate through your powerbook allowing a comfortable user experiance. If you do not wish to use this port Apple will offer the iPad as an accessory, which will be a small heat sink pad which should fit comfortably on your lap and drive away the offending heat. :D

McMike

Jan 19, 2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
Is your 12" really that hot? My 1GHz is nice and cool.

It's not that bad, I'm just kidding. But when I work on video-editing for some time my left hand doesn't feel very comfortable. But I think compared to the 867 MHz PB of my friend it still runs much cooler...

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
64Meg graphics will come first (12")

New graphics would be great! What a pitty I coudn't affart one :mad:

rog

Jan 19, 2004, 01:58 PM

They better have price cuts too. The entire portable line is terribly slow and overpriced. 1.4GHz should be the low end and all should come with big L3s to squeeze out every bit of performance from these slow chips. I realize Apple is pretty much stuck because Moto is so lame. But given that, they need drastic price cuts.

mrsebastian

Jan 19, 2004, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven
I just ordered a custom built
Powerbook G4 1.25 - 15" laptop from apple...what I am thinking now is since I am due to recieve the powerbook this wednesday (Jan 21) would that mean apple would be giving me a rebate or something if they release an update and drop the price of the 1.25 on feb 2nd? And either way...

just went through that with the last pb 17 revision. as far as i know, you have 10 days and they'll exchange it for the newer model and pay the difference if there is a price drop. though it was actaully 11 days for me when the exchange was made, i'm sure they'll work it out with you. just remember this is just a rumor and if there is a update they usually announce it on a tuesday (like tomorrow).

Flickta

Jan 19, 2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by SFNE Freak
As long as they don't change the 12-inch PowerBooks which I just bought. :)

;) Totally agree!

sethypoo

Jan 19, 2004, 02:17 PM

I hope they're able to fit a G5 inside a 12" PB someday. It'll probably be six months after the G5 goes into the 15" and 17" models.

Ah well. Good things come to those who wait!

pjkelnhofer

Jan 19, 2004, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by macer1
the idea of a laptop is to be PORTABLE, and do the basic jobs like web work , movie edit and such not.

if you wana play games or use final cut BUY A POWERMAC.

simple.

G5's in powerbooks will be after september.

live with it.

I know a lot of video professionals who need to be able to use Final Cut on a laptop.

However, you just have to expect that desktops are always going to be faster, more memory, bigger HD's, etc. It is a trade off you take.

pjkelnhofer

Jan 19, 2004, 02:48 PM

Does anyone else think the minor speed bumps are simply Apple's way of getting rid of the Moto G4's one speed at a time?
I think Apple doesn't want to move everything to G5 and have ten of thousands or useless processors lying around in warehouses.
Just my opinion.

isus

Jan 19, 2004, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
Does anyone else think the minor speed bumps are simply Apple's way of getting rid of the Moto G4's one speed at a time?
I think Apple doesn't want to move everything to G5 and have ten of thousands or useless processors lying around in warehouses.
Just my opinion.

they have the ibook g4 now, so eventually they will put faster g4's in ibooks...

i just want a g5 powerbook *drools*

verloren

Jan 19, 2004, 03:10 PM

BTW -- A processor bump to 1.25/1.33 GHz doesn't seem worth doing. Would rather see the exisiting processor at a lower price.

I suspect they won't lower the price much if any on the PBs - once the G5 does appear they won't want to have to put the price back up much - bad marketing idea.

Just a thought.

avus

Jan 19, 2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by mrsebastian
just went through that with the last pb 17 revision. as far as i know, you have 10 days and they'll exchange it for the newer model and pay the difference if there is a price drop. though it was actaully 11 days for me when the exchange was made, i'm sure they'll work it out with you. just remember this is just a rumor and if there is a update they usually announce it on a tuesday (like tomorrow).

I am not 100% certain, but if you choose BTO, then Apple will not take your PB back, so I suggest JonRaven to check it with Apple directly, and cancel the order if necessary.

crees!

Jan 19, 2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven
You mean if I am recieving it this week then I may be actually getting the new updated product?

Here's a rule of thumb to go by. Never, NEVER, buy a product 1 month before or after a keynote.

stingerman

Jan 19, 2004, 03:43 PM

A 90NM G5 running at 1.6GH should run really cool, especially if with bus slewing and powertune it can dynamically scale from 1.2GHz up. I can see the 12" starting at 1.4GHz with a 17" topping at 2GHz with bus slewing running it at 1.2GHz most of the time until you need the speed.

filipp

Jan 19, 2004, 03:50 PM

Looking at those giant air-intakes on the new Xserve G5 with same 90nm-processors, I highly doubt that G5 is coming to powerbook line anytime soon.

I guess IBM has yet to produce G5-Lite (or something like that) to go with powerbooks

/ filipp

KLFloyd

Jan 19, 2004, 04:13 PM

I do want to see PowerBook updates but in my opinion it's the 12" that needs revision the most. Apple has got to do something to further distinguish it from the current iBook lineup. Processor bump, faster graphics card, backlit keyboard, maybe FW800--something.

The next PowerBook I buy (somewhere between 6 months to a year) will be a 12"

Djehuti

Jan 19, 2004, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by crees!
Here's a rule of thumb to go by. Never, NEVER, buy a product 1 month before or after a keynote.

I figure this rumor must be true, since I ordered TWO 1.25 GHz 15" PBs on Friday. This pretty much forces Apple's hand. The last Mac I bought was a G3 iBook (the last of the G3s...), in September. :rolleyes:

Well, I waited a couple of weeks, at least, to see if this rumor would show up, and when it didn't, I went ahead and ordered anyway. But I guess I should have waited 3 more days.

My PBs are scheduled to ship by 1/29. Is there any chance they'll bump me to the new models? Or should I cancel the order and place it again in a couple of days?

gotohamish

Jan 19, 2004, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Stoffel
I do not bother about the g5 in the powerbook. my ti400 has been a good friend for the last three years. asa the 12" has the nice keyboard backlight, I will buy one. Yea.

I have the ti500 - I want a 12" with backlit keys and FW 800 - a little more futureproof.

A G5s would be the best though :rolleyes:

crees!

Jan 19, 2004, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Djehuti
My PBs are scheduled to ship by 1/29. Is there any chance they'll bump me to the new models? Or should I cancel the order and place it again in a couple of days?

If you're putting your bets in the "they will update PB's in a few days" then call and cancel before it ships. If it's going to ship after they are announced I would suspect you would receive a call from Apple asking if you want the updated machine.

It's your call, I picked up a 1.25Ghz 15" PB when they were released and I'm so happy with it. I could care less if a G5 PB came out tomorrow.

cubist

Jan 19, 2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
... Can't seem to get 2x discs from Apple now, only 4x (which only write at 1x on a PowerBook)....

Quick, go to the Special Deals page of the Apple store. They are there, and cheap, too!

Djehuti

Jan 19, 2004, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by crees!
If you're putting your bets in the "they will update PB's in a few days" then call and cancel before it ships.

Well, I'm only betting on the updates because I ordered the PBs already. If I cancel them, the update won't happen. Apple's longstanding corporate policy is apparently to wait and update machines only immediately after I buy one. :D

Seriously, a bump from 1.25 to 1.33 (6 percent) isn't all that compelling, unless it is accompanied by a faster system bus (unlikely) or SuperDrive (less unlikely). Or a G5 CPU (reeeely doubt it).

mrsebastian, what's this about a 10-day policy?

SiliconAddict

Jan 19, 2004, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by macer1
the idea of a laptop is to be PORTABLE, and do the basic jobs like web work , movie edit and such not.

if you wana play games or use final cut BUY A POWERMAC.

No, the idea of a laptop is two fold. You have laptops that are intended to be light and portable and those that are intended to be desktop replacements that also TRY to be as light and portable as possible. Why do you think Apple has 2 lines of laptops?! Why do you think the PowerBooks kick the crap out of the iBooks in performance? And why do you think Apple has a behemoth like the 17” PowerBook? Laptops are starting to overtake desktop sales. Why do you think that is? It’s because of the convenience of being able to take the system from point A to point B and still have all the functionality of a desktop.

As I've preached time and again its not a matter of speed its a matter of getting the most bang for your buck vs. a similarly configured PC laptop.
Fact: You DO pay a premium for a Mac.
I and many others don't have a problem paying that premium as long as we get something comparable to a PC laptop and benchmarks show http://www.barefeats.com/al15b.html
that a Pentium M does blow away a G4. I think part of this is the system bus but also that Moto is a piss poor CPU company. A G5 and a faster architecture is needed in the PowerBook. These speedbumplets will only work for Apple for so long before users say screw it and stop upgrading until a G5 shows up which hopefully will be soon.

pigwin32

Jan 19, 2004, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by gotohamish
I have the ti500 - I want a 12" with backlit keys and FW 800 - a little more futureproof.

A G5s would be the best though :rolleyes:

I have a ti667 and I was planning to upgrade late last year but the AlBooks just weren't compelling. Instead I bought a 7k200 hard disk and installed 10.3. It feels like a whole new machine, plus I've now got an external firewire drive for backups for the cost of the firewire case. I can wait for the G5 PB. I spend my days wrestling with Windows and I still find it weird that an OS upgrade makes my PB faster, it's just not right.

wilco

Jan 19, 2004, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by ITR 81
Well I've been saying this speed bump was going to happen 4 months ago.

Ahhh! Another "I predicted this months ago" from ITR 81. The day wouldn't be complete with one.
:rolleyes:

JonRaven

Jan 19, 2004, 06:36 PM

HAHAHAHHAHAHHA!!!!

So....I called Apple today to mention that I had just placed an order and that I have been reading all these rumors about upgrades on february 2nd. The sales guy told me that he has not been told anything about anything like that and that it is false. I am indeed the skeptical type and smart enough to know that the apple sales people even if they knew about the upgrades would be swarn to secrecy about such an update...especially to a new buyer. But come on...when I ask you outright..."hey, you work there... I am about to drop a major amount of money... should I wait a week" and you say that you were not told anything about a upgrade and yet you acvtually have and are lieing to me to keep my business.....does this sound like a company I want to trust? I have always been a mac lover...but if I get my order this week and they release updates next week and I get screwed out of say $400...I will be a very unhappy camper.

I dont care about an upgrade...I just don't want to be screwed out of money.

Cheers everyone...just my thoughts!

johnnyjibbs

Jan 19, 2004, 06:42 PM

The Apple rep will not have any more knowledge on updates than you or I. They are kept in the cold. This way Apple minimises leaks.

hasapi

Jan 19, 2004, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by stingerman
A 90NM G5 running at 1.6GH should run really cool, especially if with bus slewing and powertune it can dynamically scale from 1.2GHz up. I can see the 12" starting at 1.4GHz with a 17" topping at 2GHz with bus slewing running it at 1.2GHz most of the time until you need the speed.

Totally agree stingerman, we need 1.6G+ G4's - but they dont exist. The 7457 max's out at 1.33G that's it!, anything higher is overclocked.

So really we need the G5 @ 1.6 for the PowerBooks - remember the 'power' in POWERbooks?, they are becoming pitiful next to Pentium's.

I have a Ti400 and was playing with my friend's 1.25G - its not much more noticeable improvement in speed, meaning, i can hang on for a little while longer.

Lastly, the Powerbooks are still selling quite well!, in spite of the value proposition of the G4 iBook? Go figure? G5 Powerbooks - late 2004 say it isnt so! :confused:

crees!

Jan 19, 2004, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
No, the idea of a laptop is two fold. You have laptops that are intended to be light and portable and those that are intended to be desktop replacements that also TRY to be as light and portable as possible. Why do you think Apple has 2 lines of laptops?!

Laptops are not yet desktop replacements. If they were there would be a dual 2Ghz Powerbook. They are coming close to closing the gap though - as you are right with some of your points.

Snowy_River

Jan 19, 2004, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by Djehuti
Well, I'm only betting on the updates because I ordered the PBs already. If I cancel them, the update won't happen. Apple's longstanding corporate policy is apparently to wait and update machines only immediately after I buy one. :D

This sounds like an endochronic effect. Have you ever heard of the measureable endochronic effects of certain chemical reactions? This is where the reaction starts slightly before the chemicals mix, but only once you start to actually mix them together. There was even a paper that was written and widely published about this effect. ;)

Mercury

Jan 19, 2004, 10:51 PM

It seems unlikely, since, as was mentioned, February 2nd is a Monday...Apple usually makes announcements on Tuesdays, and since the specific date would be wrong, it seems less credible.

kbrening

Jan 19, 2004, 11:41 PM

I'm trying to decide between the 12" and 15" PowerBooks, and after a trip to the store today there's absolutely no question-- the 12" is like a frying pan!

That said, under-clocked smaller nanometer G5's may just be the solution to Apple's heat and battery-life problems! :) Let's all hope for the best-- I'm going to delay my decision for a couple of weeks, that's for sure. Small speed bumps just don't make sense-- and remember that Apple put G4's in all of the iBooks just a few months after they revved them this fall...

And the first TiBook with a G4 was introduced in 2001???? SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE EVENTUALLY!

TMJ1974

Jan 20, 2004, 12:32 AM

I am looking to buy a BTO iBook or PowerBook and was playing around with different configurations. I was waiting until tomorrow (19Jan) to buy, in case of updates.

Interesting the 15" PB has a 5-7 day wait for BTO, while the 12" PB has 1-3 day wait for BTO. Perhaps this story is correct about the 15/17" being updated and not the 12"

Also interesting the iBook 12" is a 5-7 day wait.

Don't know if it means anything, just thought I'd mention it.

Tim

jouster

Jan 20, 2004, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by MongoTheGeek
Would it make more sense to toss in a G5 and underclock it?

Sure, as long as you toss in a brand new motherboard as well.

aswitcher

Jan 20, 2004, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by TMJ1974
I am looking to buy a BTO iBook or PowerBook and was playing around with different configurations. I was waiting until tomorrow (19Jan) to buy, in case of updates.

Interesting the 15" PB has a 5-7 day wait for BTO, while the 12" PB has 1-3 day wait for BTO. Perhaps this story is correct about the 15/17" being updated and not the 12"

Also interesting the iBook 12" is a 5-7 day wait.

Don't know if it means anything, just thought I'd mention it.

Tim

Well the 12" is overdue for a hike and now looks pretty average after the iBook hike. So maybe...

Jason

Dippo

Jan 20, 2004, 01:11 AM

I still waiting for the super light ultra portable.

The 12" Powerbook wouldn't be all too bad if it hadn't been crippled so badly by Apple. A 1Ghz G4 in the 12" would be nice, but I guess the margins are lower on the 12" so we won't see that for a while :(

kbrening

Jan 20, 2004, 03:13 AM

Apple obviously must be getting some lower-heat, smaller-process G5 chips from IBM, so WHY NOT try and stick some of them in their "Industry Leading" PORTABLES?

This G4 business is getting to be VERY old news-- where's the heat? (pardon the pun)

G5's for the 15" and 17" I say!!!!!!

Marc the Mac

Jan 20, 2004, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by Dippo
I still waiting for the super light ultra portable.

The 12" Powerbook wouldn't be all too bad if it hadn't been crippled so badly by Apple. A 1Ghz G4 in the 12" would be nice, but I guess the margins are lower on the 12" so we won't see that for a while :(

There is a 1Ghz G4 in the 12" Powerbook - isn't there?

Marc the Mac

Jan 20, 2004, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by kbrening
Apple obviously must be getting some lower-heat, smaller-process G5 chips from IBM, so WHY NOT try and stick some of them in their "Industry Leading" PORTABLES?

This G4 business is getting to be VERY old news-- where's the heat? (pardon the pun)

G5's for the 15" and 17" I say!!!!!!

Could the vents in the G5 Xserve be due to heat generated from versions with dual processors and multiple hard drives. Hard drives do produce quite a bit of heat. In a Powerbook there is one drive and one processor - maybe a 1.6Ghz 90 nano G5 would sit within a powerbook without too much problem?

johnnyjibbs

Jan 20, 2004, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by Mercury
It seems unlikely, since, as was mentioned, February 2nd is a Monday...Apple usually makes announcements on Tuesdays, and since the specific date would be wrong, it seems less credible.
The new 20 and 40 gig iPods and new iMacs were introduced on a Monday, last September. Apple is trying to break away from their regular patterns with new product releases.

I'm not convinced we'll see anything new in the PowerBooks for a while. A small bump such as 64Megs graphics in the 12" may just manifest itself, maybe 4x superdrives, but no big deal about it.

As for G5s, while anything's possible, that would require new motherboards and the like. I still doubt they will come before late summer.

At least no-one's mentioned dual G4s. That's a sigh of relief!

Flickta

Jan 20, 2004, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by Marc the Mac
Could the vents in the G5 Xserve be due to heat generated from versions with dual processors and multiple hard drives. Hard drives do produce quite a bit of heat. In a Powerbook there is one drive and one processor - maybe a 1.6Ghz 90 nano G5 would sit within a powerbook without too much problem?

It's clear that Apple will put faster G5s in Xserves, right? So, all those vents are for future expansion (new procs). Much like the G5 Tower' case. Powerbook can handle a G5. But is this new model ready? Isn't it cheaper to go with G4? Especially new 7447 or whatever - which can presumably be clocked higher?

Dunno. But there had been a lack of updates recently in iMac and eMac lines. (20" iMac is nothing new besides that screen, agreed?) eMac is plain ancient. Perhaps, they are to be upgraded to G5 simultaneously? But then, will it be wise to leave a Notebook from the Power line lacking "status"? G4 is still a good chip, but its reputation...

johnnyjibbs

Jan 20, 2004, 06:40 AM

It has only been 4 months since the iMac and PowerBooks were updated. There have previously been much longer gaps between releases than this. The eMac, I agree, needs an update soon.

Flickta

Jan 20, 2004, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
It has only been 4 months since the iMac and PowerBooks were updated. There have previously been much longer gaps between releases than this. The eMac, I agree, needs an update soon.

I didn't say anything about PowerBook updates. As for the iMac... You are right. Patiently waiting two more months...

luggnutt

Jan 20, 2004, 02:22 PM

Besides all the above banter, perhaps apple wants to speedbump to help distinguish the PB line from the ibooks.

A top-o-the-line ibook performs comparably to a lower PB for much less $$. I know about graphics card, cache, backlight, form, yadda yadda, but to many/most ppl I would purport that those "class" features do not nearly warrent the many hundred dollar price jump.

As has been mentioned, this would be a very minor speedbump, but if it comes with some other hardware improvements it could help distinguish the PB line and further justify it as a premier line over the ibooks.

johnnyjibbs

Jan 20, 2004, 02:42 PM

True, although the iBooks don't look half as refined as the PowerBooks. iBooks are designed for a budget, while the 12" PB gives people like me a chance to get a powerbook (15/17" way out of reach).

To me, the iBooks look cheap and they do scratch much more easily, but they are very good value. In fact, my brother wants to get a PC notebook this coming September - so far the iBook beats all the PC laptops in features and price (he's looking at the sub £1000 range). Any additional features on the PowerBooks would be welcome though. FW 800 and backlit keyboard on the 12"? Why not?!

justytylor

Jan 20, 2004, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by macer1
[B]the idea of a laptop is to be PORTABLE, and do the basic jobs like web work , movie edit and such not.

if you wana play games or use final cut BUY A POWERMAC.

I do have to take issue with this, as FCP runs fine (though without all the RT goodness) on my PowerBook 667. It runs so fine that I'm guilty about thinking about doing the trade-in program to pick up a new 15" PowerBook. Apple's portables are very capable machines. That said, I still can't wait to see a G5 in there.

Flickta

Jan 20, 2004, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by justytylor
I do have to take issue with this, as FCP runs fine (though without all the RT goodness) on my PowerBook 667. It runs so fine that I'm guilty about thinking about doing the trade-in program to pick up a new 15" PowerBook. Apple's portables are very capable machines. That said, I still can't wait to see a G5 in there.

May be it is because of memory (256 MB), but even iMovie is slow as hell on my 12 incher rev. B.

And no Photoshop work, of course. (Higher then 144 DPI A4)

FCP? HD in Powerbooks is slow, you'll need an external one. And that will eliminate portability and, more important, add MUCH noise.

Games? No...

What's a notebook for? Text work.

Well, I know they are capable machines. But, you know, I can't afford two computers. Tower or Portable. I chose portable. Regrets? Only when my PC-using friends ask about Unreal performance or when I have a work to be done. For everything else (home use) it's ok.

Long live the PB!

pinapplex

Jan 20, 2004, 06:04 PM

I dunno what you´ve done to your machine, but I think you´ll experience something nice if you get some more RAM. FCP and the whole Adobe range work quite decent on these machines...

johnnyjibbs

Jan 20, 2004, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Flickta
FCP? HD in Powerbooks is slow, you'll need an external one. And that will eliminate portability and, more important, add MUCH noise.
I have had no problems using my PowerBook's internal 80GB 4200RMP drive as Final Cut Express' scratch disc. Not a hitch. Just glad I got the max space because I use most of it when I'm capturing (can't afford an external HD).

Snowy_River

Jan 20, 2004, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Flickta
What's a notebook for? Text work.

Uh... I'd have to disagree with this, too. I have a rev A 12" and I use it for a wide variety of pro-level uses. Primarily, I design complex parts in a 3D CAD package. While I'd love to have the somewhat higher speed that a G5 would give, even if it were under clocked to fit in a PowerBook, my G4 is quite a powerful machine.

Text work only? I think not!

spaceballl

Jan 20, 2004, 07:26 PM

Moving from 1.33 to 1.42 is really not that significant of an upgrade. Considering though, that the G4 doesn't want to go much higher, i'm surprised Apple doesn't get a little more creative.

First of all, they could up the 9600 video chips on the laptops to 9600 Pros, ATi's slightly higher version.

Second, they could boost the system bus and memory speed. Right now the bus is 167 mhz. Why not boost that to 200 mhz? This would allow for a faster system bus and DDR400 instead of DDR333. With this FSB, it would be possible to release either a 1.4 (200x7) or 1.5 (200x7.5) ghz machine. I'd rather have a 1.4 ghz machine on the 200 mhz BUS than a 1.42 ghz machine on the 167 mhz BUS...

As far as hard drives, the power usage for 7200 rpm drives is HARDLY greater than that of 5400 rpm drives. However, this comes back to marketing. 7200 rpm laptop drives top off at 60gb, and I don't think Apple wants to market an 80gb 5400 rpm drive and then charge more just to downgrade capacity to 60gb, even if you are getting a faster drive. I feel that as soon as Hitachi can get out a bigger version of that 7200 rpm drive, they can count Apple in as a buyer.

In any case, all the upgrades I listed would significantly help out the Powerbook. However, like everyone is saying, the G5 upgrade is what we're all waiting for.

Oh ONE more thing though... I am pretty certain that Apple wants to put a low end G5 into the iMac in the near future. However, with the iMac marketed as a consumer machine and the powerbook marketed as a PRO machine, I find it VERY unlikely that Apple would ever have the iMac outperform the Powerbook. Thus, Apple should be trying to get that G5 in the powerbook ASAP so they can also fix up their iMacs.

-Kev

Mineral

Jan 20, 2004, 07:29 PM

how can i overclock my current pbook?? ;)

crees!

Jan 20, 2004, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Flickta May be it is because of memory (256 MB), but even iMovie is slow as hell on my 12 incher rev. B. I have a 15" 1.25 Al PB with 512 RAM (my one and only Mac) and have had no problems at all with iMovie.
And no Photoshop work, of course. (Higher then 144 DPI A4)
I'm a web designer and I use Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, and Dreamweaver all the time. No major performance issues here.FCP? HD in Powerbooks is slow, you'll need an external one. And that will eliminate portability and, more important, add MUCH noise.
Hey check me out, I'm just a well rounded designer. I also use FCP and Adobe Premiere. No problems here.Games? No...
I just played and beat Medal of Honor Allied Assault and am now working on MOH: Spearhead.What's a notebook for? Text work.
Maybe yours, but not mine.Regrets?
None.

singletrack

Jan 21, 2004, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by kbrening
I'm trying to decide between the 12" and 15" PowerBooks, and after a trip to the store today there's absolutely no question-- the 12" is like a frying pan!

No more so than an iBook IME. The hard drive is in the same location in both, under your left hand. Keeps it nice and warm. ;-)

Neither are unbearable and both the iBook and PB12 are a lot cooler than some PC laptops I've used.

Flickta

Jan 21, 2004, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by crees!
I have a 15" 1.25 Al PB with 512 RAM (my one and only Mac) and have had no problems at all with iMovie.

I'm a web designer and I use Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, and Dreamweaver all the time. No major performance issues here.
Hey check me out, I'm just a well rounded designer. I also use FCP and Adobe Premiere. No problems here.
I just played and beat Medal of Honor Allied Assault and am now working on MOH: Spearhead.
Maybe yours, but not mine.
None.

512 MB RAM is twice as much as 256. RAM really makes a difference.
Photoshop is sluggish. I don't mean 72 dpi average res pictures, I mean larger images.
FCP on my fathers 17" rev. A works ok, but occasionally (well, often) drops frames.
The only 3d Game (besides Oni & Rune, which are old) I have is UT2K3, and that is SLOW. Your 1,25 Ghz PB is somewhat different than my 12"

I am a little bit disappointed with it - using it after 800 Mhz Titanium Pb w 512 Mbs.
I just expected more. I use my PB not for text work. And it is a good machine. But...
Forget it.

johnnyjibbs

Jan 21, 2004, 01:47 PM

My 12 incher was not slow even with 256 MB RAM. But put more in (get it up to 768) and it'll fly. I'm very happy with my PowerBook.

Flickta

Jan 21, 2004, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
My 12 incher was not slow even with 256 MB RAM. But put more in (get it up to 768) and it'll fly. I'm very happy with my PowerBook.

I'll get, I'll get...
We'll see, we'll see...

Snowy_River

Jan 21, 2004, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Flickta
... RAM really makes a difference...

Aren't you answering your own question here? Get More RAM!! ;)

You can get a 512MB RAM card for the 12" PB for on the order of $100 (or less if you shop around a little), which is trivial next to the price of the machine. I'd love to get a 1GB card for my PB, but they're still a bit expensive, especially as I already have a 512MB card installed...

crees!

Jan 21, 2004, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Aren't you answering your own question here? Get More RAM!! ;)

You can get a 512MB RAM card for the 12" PB for on the order of $100 (or less if you shop around a little), which is trivial next to the price of the machine. I'd love to get a 1GB card for my PB, but they're still a bit expensive, especially as I already have a 512MB card installed...

Exactly, that's why I upped my RAM to 512 when I bought my machine. The 1 GB modules were, and still are, too expensive and I figured I could throw one in later when prices are more reasonable... making it at 1.5 GB and screaming.

johnnyjibbs

Jan 21, 2004, 04:06 PM

That's what I thought. The prices are coming down quite rapidly on the 1GB module. In a couple of years, it will be nothing and I can upgrade (or even to 2 or 4GB :D)

isus

Jan 21, 2004, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by filipp
Looking at those giant air-intakes on the new Xserve G5 with same 90nm-processors, I highly doubt that G5 is coming to powerbook line anytime soon.

I guess IBM has yet to produce G5-Lite (or something like that) to go with powerbooks

/ filipp
don't forget that the g5 xserve has more to cool... at sometime it may need to cool 3 hard drives and the power supply giving them all that juice... and then there is the fact that those xserves are running at 2ghz.

i would bet $10 right now that a 1.2ghz g5 beats a 1.33ghz g4 because the g4 is stuck on a 133mhz bus, while the g5 should technically get a 600mhz fsb.

Stoffel

Jan 21, 2004, 05:34 PM

Will they ever put these nice backlit keys in the 12"? If not, I will go for a 12" ibook.

johnnyjibbs

Jan 21, 2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Stoffel
Will they ever put these nice backlit keys in the 12"? If not, I will go for a 12" ibook.
I don't see why they don't make it an option. I would have paid extra for it if they had...

agentkow

Jan 21, 2004, 05:54 PM

Get this, I just called Apple about my Powerbook 15 inch order that I placed last week, because the extended warranty package has been shown as shipped today and yet the actual Powerbook hadn't yet.

The guy on the phone said that it was showing up as a "manufacturing delay" and wouldn't now ship until February the 2nd, even though it was originally supposed to ship today.

I don't know if this confirms this rumour about new the ones coming out and/or updated specs, but something tells me this will be one interesting Groundhog day.

Stoffel

Jan 21, 2004, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by agentkow
Get this, I just called Apple about my Powerbook 15 inch order that I placed last week, because the extended warranty package has been shown as shipped today and yet the actual Powerbook hadn't yet.

The guy on the phone said that it was showing up as a "manufacturing delay" and wouldn't now ship until February the 2nd, even though it was originally supposed to ship today.

I don't know if this confirms this rumour about new the ones coming out and/or updated specs, but something tells me this will be one interesting Groundhog day.

Sounds very promising. Keep us informed, please. However, this can be hazard.

rdowns

Jan 21, 2004, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by agentkow
but something tells me this will be one interesting Groundhog day.

Maybe it will be like the Bill Murray movie.

New PowerBooks on Tuesday
Speed bumped G5s on Tuesday
New Apple displays on Tuesday
$99 iPod on Tuesday
G5 iMac on Tuesday

and then the same thing the next day
and the next day
and the next day
and the next day
and the next day
and the next day

JonRaven

Jan 21, 2004, 10:04 PM

Hey all, Update for you all.

Ok so...my custom 1.25 pbook shipped two days ago and it arrived at the authorized dealer store where I ordered it. Everything i ordered custom on it was the way I ordered it...except...I ordered the standard 80gig 4200rpm drive to be swapped out for the faster 5400rpm 80gig...but.... they shipped it with the 4200rpm drive and said...deal with it...the 5400rpm drives were back ordered. What the hell are you doing APPLE> I am dropping 5 grand Canadian for this thing and I get a deal with it? What the hell? Does this mean you arent releasing new books on feb 2nd? Or does this mean you are and they will all have 5400rpm drives in them so I lost out on mine? What is going on here? I am not picking my powerbook up until I get some answers tommorrow that is for sure!

Do you all think I should just take it with the 4200rpm drive in it and buy a after market 5400rpm and get the repair guy at the store to swap it for me and I will put the apple drive into an external case....or should I wait the 3 weeks apple says it will be before I can get the right drive I asked for?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks for listening to my first apple/me service vent session.

kingtj

Jan 21, 2004, 11:02 PM

Umm, actually, all that's required is a firmware flash upgrade for the drive you have already. The only reason the drive is writing 4x media at a top speed of 1x is because it doesn't recognize the media as a type matching its database of discs that handle the higher 2x write speed.

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
I've got some 2-speed DVD-Rs on order from the UK Apple Education online store. They were cancelled and autmoatically changed to 4-speed discs (which I don't want!!!).

Can't seem to get 2x discs from Apple now, only 4x (which only write at 1x on a PowerBook).

This must mean that Superdrive updates are on the way, if nothing else. Expect new PowerBooks with 4-speed DVD-R drives.

kingtj

Jan 21, 2004, 11:10 PM

Umm, I can tell you this much.... Unless it's a flat out mistake where Apple doesn't have it on record that you ordered the 5400RPM drive or paid extra for it, they're surely planning on eventually giving it to you (or offering a refund of the difference in price). This might be frustrating, but I wouldn't automatically assume the worst here....

Maybe Apple was just trying to do you a favor and get you a working notebook now, instead of holding up the entire order until they get more 5400RPM drives in stock? I would think that when the drives do come in, they'd contact you - offering to upgrade it if you ship it back to Apple in a supplied return mailer. (They can transfer the data from your old drive to the new one. They've always offered that option with exchanged systems for about $49 extra. In your case, I'd think they'd do that at no extra cost.)

Originally posted by JonRaven
Hey all, Update for you all.

Ok so...my custom 1.25 pbook shipped two days ago and it arrived at the authorized dealer store where I ordered it. Everything i ordered custom on it was the way I ordered it...except...I ordered the standard 80gig 4200rpm drive to be swapped out for the faster 5400rpm 80gig...but.... they shipped it with the 4200rpm drive and said...deal with it...the 5400rpm drives were back ordered. What the hell are you doing APPLE> I am dropping 5 grand Canadian for this thing and I get a deal with it? What the hell? Does this mean you arent releasing new books on feb 2nd? Or does this mean you are and they will all have 5400rpm drives in them so I lost out on mine? What is going on here? I am not picking my powerbook up until I get some answers tommorrow that is for sure!

Do you all think I should just take it with the 4200rpm drive in it and buy a after market 5400rpm and get the repair guy at the store to swap it for me and I will put the apple drive into an external case....or should I wait the 3 weeks apple says it will be before I can get the right drive I asked for?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks for listening to my first apple/me service vent session.

kingtj

Jan 21, 2004, 11:22 PM

Right you are.... And furthermore, I may be way off base here, but I have suspicions that some of the G4's running a 1.42Ghz aren't really at peak stability. I say that primarily because I owned a dual 1.42Ghz MDD tower for a little while (before upgrading to a G5), and while performance was pretty nice with it - I encountered a few quirks. It seemed to freeze with the spinning beach-ball far too often, and I had to reinstall OS X from scratch at least 4 times during my ownership of the system, due to data corruption and crashes. (I realize it would be easy to blame this on bad RAM or hard drives - but I tried swapping both and it never helped anything. Not only that, but repeated tests with TechTool Pro found no hardware errors.)

On my Powerbook 15" and on my dual 2Ghz G5, I haven't had any of these issues. Sure, I've seen iMovie crash a couple times and things like that -- but not the sort of crashes I got with the G4 @ 1.42Ghz, requiring hard power off's.

Originally posted by spaceballl
Moving from 1.33 to 1.42 is really not that significant of an upgrade. Considering though, that the G4 doesn't want to go much higher, i'm surprised Apple doesn't get a little more creative.
-Kev

JonRaven

Jan 21, 2004, 11:24 PM

"IF" the rumors of a February 2nd update release is indeed true....wouldn't you think they would hold back my order of my 1.25 anyways in order to give me the new version? Today is the 21st...the Feb 2nd date is only 12 days away...would they be that sneeky as to sell me a powerbook (which I havent paid for yet) for the full price even knowing they would release a new version and discount the old version that soon after?

Any ideas?

Dont Hurt Me

Jan 21, 2004, 11:29 PM

who knows maybe for the anniversary steve is having a kick you out the door party for moto, and then celebrating with G5s in every product. now that would be cool.

stockscalper

Jan 22, 2004, 08:49 AM

The 1.4 mhz's were severely overclocked. No point in overclocking until they get a faster frontside bus, which in turn will allow them to use faster ram. If the rumor is true that new PB's are coming out I think it's more likely just a minor overhaul; ie, 128 mb ram video card and 5400 rpm drives standard and perhaps the addition of a cache to the cpu. It's too early to see a major revamp, which likely will occur sometime in the summer or in September. At that time look for dual 1.25 processors. Given the current bus speed a dual 1.25 is a much better bet for a processor speed bump than the 1.4. A G5 is more than a year out.

Snowy_River

Jan 22, 2004, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven
Hey all, Update for you all.

Ok so...my custom 1.25 pbook shipped two days ago and it arrived at the authorized dealer store where I ordered it. Everything i ordered custom on it was the way I ordered it...except...I ordered the standard 80gig 4200rpm drive to be swapped out for the faster 5400rpm 80gig...but.... they shipped it with the 4200rpm drive and said...deal with it...the 5400rpm drives were back ordered.

...

Do you all think I should just take it with the 4200rpm drive in it and buy a after market 5400rpm and get the repair guy at the store to swap it for me and I will put the apple drive into an external case....or should I wait the 3 weeks apple says it will be before I can get the right drive I asked for?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks for listening to my first apple/me service vent session.

I would say that if you ordered and paid for the faster hard drive but didn't get it, I'd return that machine in a hot second. Upon returning it, I'd demand that the proper machine be sent. But, that's just me. (Either that, or demand an immediate refund of the difference. However, given comments below, I'd still be inclined to return it.)

Originally posted by JonRaven
"IF" the rumors of a February 2nd update release is indeed true....wouldn't you think they would hold back my order of my 1.25 anyways in order to give me the new version? Today is the 21st...the Feb 2nd date is only 12 days away...would they be that sneeky as to sell me a powerbook (which I havent paid for yet) for the full price even knowing they would release a new version and discount the old version that soon after?

Any ideas?

In short, yes, Apple would send you the machine. In general, from what I've observed, they will stop all orders somewhere around ten days before new releases come out. Yes, today there's only eleven days until the 2nd, but it was three days ago when your machine shipped. So it was fully two weeks before the supposed release that they shipped it.

So, given that you have a window to return it and possibly be eligible for an update on the 2nd, I would jump at the chance.

agentkow

Jan 22, 2004, 02:16 PM

So my aforementioned Powerbook Extended Warranty just arrived from FedEx, and I already have a claim to make under the warranty:

Do you think it covers a Powerbook that hasn't ARRIVED YET?!

Anyway, its nice to have a useless box with a package of air and another useless box inside. Atleast I can look at the CD and imagine how much fun it will be to put it in the Powerbook slot-loading drive when it arrives...

As for Apple, I mentioned the rumours to the sales guy and he gave that "can't confirm or deny" speech, but he did point me to this (http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespolicies.html#Apple%20Prices) link which proves that there is in fact a 10 day policy. As for actual specs being increased after shipping, he said those would be dealt with on a "case-by-case" basis.

Whatever, if I get a better Powerbook, I can wait a week.

jar

Jan 22, 2004, 02:55 PM

... good until February 1:

The coupon (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000D8DKT.01.RB02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) states "Purchase an Apple PowerBook notebook 15.2" M8981LL/A from Amazon.com between 01/19/04 and 02/01/04." Interesting that this offer ends just before February 2nd.

sethypoo

Jan 22, 2004, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by jar
... good until February 1:

The coupon (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000D8DKT.01.RB02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) states "Purchase an Apple PowerBook notebook 15.2" M8981LL/A from Amazon.com between 01/19/04 and 02/01/04." Interesting that this offer ends just before February 2nd.

Could also be coincidence. Good point to add though.

In my memory, Amazon often ends offers like that on the first of the month.

jar

Jan 22, 2004, 03:43 PM

Could also be coincidence. Good point to add though.

Yes, it certainly could be a coincidence. I was just wondering if they're trying to move stock. I see that there are similar $100 rebates for the 12" and 17" models as well.

tristanchadwick

Jan 23, 2004, 10:35 AM

Just to add to the 'coincidences', my father ordered a 15" powerbook on the 18th (the day before this rumor was posted). On the order status page, the order has remained "open" with an estimated shipping date of "on or before the 26th" since.
He has just been e-mailed by Apple today to inform him that due to some reason or other (he didn't tell me clearly but I think it had something to do with stock), that his order should now be shipped "on or before the 7th of Feb."

Interesting...

agentkow

Jan 23, 2004, 11:50 AM

Verrrrrrrry interesting.....

ragelux

Jan 23, 2004, 01:04 PM

I want to get myself the 17" Powerbook.
Although, reading the rumor that on February the 2nd there might be an small upgrade in performance on the Powerbook series, I am wondering what any of you would recommend?

Buy now and ignore the rumor,
or
definitely wait until February 2nd?

Thanks for your opinions.

socal

Jan 23, 2004, 01:09 PM

hey everyone,
I ordered a PB 12" SD/80G that arrived in the mail on Jan. 15th and I was reading this forum and became nervous that I had purchased it a depressingly 3 weeks early to this supposed Feb. 02 update. So, I called the apple return authorization phone number (even though I know apple says they won't take returns on custom orders) to see if I could find out some information.

I told the guy how long I had saved for the laptop and how I waited until after the MacWorld expo because I figured it would be introduced there and since it wasn't, it would probably be a couple months later, yada yada yada. Then, I told him that I have been hearing rumors about manufacturing delays in the powerbooks this week and next week and asked him if I was SOL for buying my powerbook just a couple of weeks before an update.

He gave me the usual "can't confirm/deny any of those rumors," talk but then I asked him to put himself in my shoes and he said if apple introduced the iPod mini at the Macworld expo, and it doesn't ship until mid-Feb, then why wouldn't they have introduced the new powerbooks if they ship beginning of Feb?

So, I am not denying that the rumor is true but thought you all should know what he said. Personally, if I had the chance, I would wait 2 more weeks just to be sure, but not hold my breath.

agentkow

Jan 23, 2004, 01:11 PM

If you can wait, that is usually the best thing. I'm selling my current computer, and have a buyer already, so I kind of need to get moving.

However, even if you did order now, it might not ship until after the rumour and then you would get the upgraded one anyway, plus maybe some money back. I ordered a 15" Powerbook last week and mine won't ship until Feb 2nd anyways, so there you go.

crees!

Jan 23, 2004, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by ragelux
I want to get myself the 17" Powerbook.
Although, reading the rumor that on February the 2nd there might be an small upgrade in performance on the Powerbook series, I am wondering what any of you would recommend?

Buy now and ignore the rumor,
or
definitely wait until February 2nd?

Thanks for your opinions.

If you can wait another week or so, wait. I drove myself crazy because I became really interested in Apple products in Feb/March of last year and waited a whopping 7 months for the 15" Al PB to be released, which I now have an love. Patience is a virtue.

cubist

Jan 23, 2004, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by rdowns
Maybe it will be like the Bill Murray movie.

New PowerBooks on Tuesday
Speed bumped G5s on Tuesday
...
and then the same thing the next day
and the next day
...

We had something like that last year with the "New iPods Tuesday" rumors. It went on for months.

It seems like these days, any Apple release takes much longer than expected. Figure a reasonable date - say, 1/20/04 - then add 3 to 6 months or more.:(

And for the calendar-challenged, Feb. 2 is a Monday. Feb. 3 is a Tuesday.

agentkow

Jan 23, 2004, 01:44 PM

What if after all this waiting and speculating the rumours don't come true and then we all receive our Powerbooks eventually, and then get this, they turn out to be exactly the same as all the other Powerbooks except then we notice that they are in fact quite different, and that difference is that they took a really long time to arrive.

Snowy_River

Jan 23, 2004, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by socal
hey everyone,
I ordered a PB 12" SD/80G that arrived in the mail on Jan. 15th and I was reading this forum and became nervous that I had purchased it a depressingly 3 weeks early to this supposed Feb. 02 update. So, I called the apple return authorization phone number (even though I know apple says they won't take returns on custom orders) to see if I could find out some information.

I told the guy how long I had saved for the laptop and how I waited until after the MacWorld expo because I figured it would be introduced there and since it wasn't, it would probably be a couple months later, yada yada yada. Then, I told him that I have been hearing rumors about manufacturing delays in the powerbooks this week and next week and asked him if I was SOL for buying my powerbook just a couple of weeks before an update.

He gave me the usual "can't confirm/deny any of those rumors," talk but then I asked him to put himself in my shoes and he said if apple introduced the iPod mini at the Macworld expo, and it doesn't ship until mid-Feb, then why wouldn't they have introduced the new powerbooks if they ship beginning of Feb?

So, I am not denying that the rumor is true but thought you all should know what he said. Personally, if I had the chance, I would wait 2 more weeks just to be sure, but not hold my breath.

For what it's worth, was considering buying a new iBook a few years ago. I had heard rumors that a new model was going to be released in a few weeks. I was getting ready to start school, and I was really feeling the need to get a new computer, so I called Apple. I talked to the guy and begged and pleaded, saying 'if you were in my place...' He gave me the usual "can't confirm/deny any of those rumors," talk, too. And then gave a very reasonable explanation as to why there wasn't going to be any update at that point.

Well, I decided to knuckle down and wait, and, guess what? In October 2001, the 'Late 2001' iBook was released, just about when the rumors said they would. So, I think that these people really don't know anything about new releases. I've consistently heard from Apple and Apple authorized reps that there is no new release coming, even when the release is a day away, and all of the most obvious signs point to it. So, don't take that guy's word as golden...

JonRaven

Jan 23, 2004, 01:58 PM

Well everyone....new news on my custom 1.25 powerbook order.

I finally recieved it today....yes...I recieved it today.. BUT...and I mean...big BUT....

They sent me
A) a 1 Ghz system....instead of 1.25Ghz
B) a 80 gig 4200rpm drive instead of 5400rpm..(as I was informed previous because of backorder on the faster drives)
C) a machine without any of the pluses like Airport extreme, backlit keys, no nothing...very basic system....

so what did I custom order?

I called the store and they said that is what apple sent them and so they sent it to me....well hello thank you for screwing me over dealers and thanks for taking that extra money I paid for upgrades....anyways I am sending it back to the store and buying drect from apple from now on and I am calling APPLE after I write this and asking who it was that messed up my order and that I demand satisfaction....as they wasted a month and 2 weeks of my time while in need of this system.

I will write more after I talk to apple.

Cheers and I hope everyone else is having a better purchase experiance then I!

Jon

maclamb

Jan 23, 2004, 02:13 PM

After playing it for a few weeks I think waiting is a suckers game -
Unless there is a significant architecture release impending
AND you have a usable machine - then wait. (like g4 to g5 or if we were SURE a G5 PB was coming- and from what I read it ain't even breathing hard - though it IS hot. LOL)...

Otherwise, why wait at all? Save what? 10% of the cost? Gget a machine maybe 10% faster? Sheesh

Excpeptions to this, as stated elsewhere, are big events- MW, Anniversarys ;-) Super bowl.
I am ready to buy and have my order saved - (1.6 Combo, 9600, BT, Ipod 15G -- which meets my needs just fine).

If something happens before the 3rd I'll change (like a 2.0G SP to replace the 1.6) - otherwise I'll buy a week from tuesday AND be happy and not look back (but maybe start saving for my next machine in 2006...)

MacRAND

Jan 23, 2004, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven
...my custom 1.25 pbook shipped two days ago and it arrived at the authorized dealer store where I ordered it. Everything i ordered custom on it was the way I ordered it...except...I ordered the standard 80gig 4200rpm drive to be swapped out for the faster 5400 rpm 80 gig...but.... they shipped it with the 4200rpm drive and said...deal with it...the 5400 rpm drives were back ordered.

What is going on here? I am not picking my PowerBook up until I get some answers tommorrow that is for sure!

Do you all think I should just take it with the 4200 rpm drive in it and buy a after market 5400rpm and get the repair guy at the store to swap it for me and I will put the apple drive into an external case....or should I wait the 3 weeks apple says it will be before I can get the right drive I asked for? Legally, since what they are trying to deliver to you is "non-conforming goods" of a special manufacture/order, you have an absolute right to refuse it and demand that they give you a complete refund.
Do it. Take the refund NOW!

Come Feb 2nd, your chosen PB will very likely get a 10% speed bump at the same price you paid, and since 7200 rpm (true FireWire speed) Hard Drives are already available for PB, maybe that will be a new option then. Regardless, if you elect to swap the 4200 rpm 80GB drive for something, why not pay a little extra for a fast 7200 rpm drive?

PREDICTION: I'd love it, but I don't think we will see 8x DVD write speed in PB SuperDrives for a while, not until they are common in the next G5 towers, which I do expect in the next G5 updates. Likely either Pioneer or Plextor. But when they hit the PB, look for the 17" to get it first because it is the Video Editor Special, then watch it trickle down to 15" and eventually 12"

Why expect 8x DVD? you ask, well
1st 8x SuperDrives have been out for several months now already,
2nd Apple historically has been on the cutting edge of offering the fastest DVD write speed SuperDrives as available, and Apple started the DVD revolution before PCs ever dreamed of it
3rd Apple is heavily invested in video editing and DVD media (FinalCut Pro, DVD Studio, iDVD, iMovie, GarageBand, etc.) so they have to stay at the cutting edge or get passed up by the big guys in the PC world; and
4th If you look at the drop in Apple's price of 4x and 2x DVD blanks at the Apple Store online to about half current retail at Apple Retail Stores, this is either the new price OR Apple is dumping heavy over stock in slower speed blanks in anticipation of a run on 8x.
How about BOTH! :p

DVD-R Media
These products are new and unopened units.
Apple 2x DVD-R media kit (5 pack) Add $7.99 normally $14.99
Apple 4x DVD-R media kit (5 pack) Add $9.99 normally $19.99

I would expect to see added to the above list:

Apple 8x DVD-R media kit (5 pack) Add $19.99

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71408/wo/Y53FXYJJCdev2d7q2MA2EYQcTyR/0.0.7.1.0.5.13.0.3.0.0.0.0.3.1.1.0?76,28

JonRaven

Jan 23, 2004, 07:10 PM

Ok folks here is what happened.

I talked to apple and they said that there is definatly soething wrong if the store did that to me...and that they would guarentee me a full blown custom to my specs in 15 business days or less no matter where I am in north america.

So knowing that I called the store I ordered mine from and they were appologizing profusly as you can imagine for what they did and we worked out this deal.

I gget to keep this powerbook for now so I have something to use...and they ordered me a standard 1.25 with superdrive from their stock warehouse to be sent directly to me for this wednesday coming as well so that I will have my gig of ram they are sending me two corsair or kingston 512 ram chips to drop in. And then when I get it wednesday they will send a courior over to pick up the one I am using now.

This way I will have my 1.25 pbook with my 1 gig of ram, 80 gig 4200rpm drive and a Superdrive...I didnt want a sdrive just yet cause they are too slow but they are giving it to me for a good discount (roughly $175 CDN off) and as far as my wanting the faster 5400rpm drive instead of the standard 4200rpm?...Well I will use the $180CDN I was planning on spending on the upgrade to buy a 7200rpm when they come down a bit in price. I will then have 2 hard drives...The 4200 I will put in an external pocket case for mp3s and file backup.

I am getting the whole pakage wth applecare for $5100 canadian (CDN)

I atleast feel now that I am going to have rooughly the same custom I ordered...but now maybe better cause I will have options.

Anyone hear about the 1 gig ram chips yet? Are they roughly the same price as two 512 chips? Cause if so maybe I should get a 1 gig chip instead of the 2x512 ones and I will have 1.25 ram as well as a 1.25 processor hahhahaa.

Talk more soon. sorry for writing such long letters on here...hope some of you like reading about it atleast.

Jon

JonRaven

Jan 23, 2004, 07:12 PM

When I was talking with the Apple sales guy (frankly the nicest one I have ever talked to - CANT NAME NAMES THOUGH)

He said... "frankly we arent told anything...BUT...I will tell you one thing...everyone here is soo preoccupied by getting the mini ipods ready for shippment on the 15-16th of feb thhat I highly...and I mean highly doubt we will be releasing anything else until those are released."

Just thought I would let ya''s in on the conversation and what he said...take from it what you will.

Jon

floatingspirit

Jan 23, 2004, 08:17 PM

I'm no expert and I've mentioned this elsewhere, but is it fair to say that a G5 equipped computer will only get faster as the OS evolves whereas the G4 equipped PowerBook will see only a limited to nill improvement in comparison? I'm trying to get the best value I can, so I'm wondering about what I buy now will be like in the future.

MacRAND

Jan 23, 2004, 08:40 PM

Good for you Jon, sounds like they are taking good care of you, exactly like they should.

RAM
1GB DDR333 SDRAM SODIMM for 17" & 15" (alum) G4 PBs
$699.99 each 1GB chip
:eek:
http://www.macfriends.com/pages/products/ram.html

System Type: Laptops
System Manufacturer: Apple
System Model: 15" PowerBook G4 1.25GHz (M8981LL/A)

Memory Specifications

Standard Memory:
512 MB (removable) or
512 MB = 256 MB (removable) + 256 MB (removable)

Maximum Memory:
2.0 GB (if 2 x 1GB chips are used) $700 each

Memory Expansion Slots: 2 sockets
Additional Notes: PC2700 DDR333 SDRAM SODIMMs

JonRaven

Jan 23, 2004, 08:50 PM

Hey thanks for the RAM help!

I guess at those prices it is more feesable for me to just stick with the 2x512 Meg chips for now and either store the 2x256 chips for awhile or sell them somewhere in order to help fund my 7200rpm drive swap.

I can't wait to get my 1.25 machine Wednesday...but for now...this 1 ghtz machine will do me till then.

Talk more later.

cheers everyone!

Icekey

Jan 23, 2004, 09:23 PM

I'm curious. Is it really possible to sell those 2 x 256mb ram that comes with the powerbook somewhere? Like, is there a demand for 256mb chips? I didn't want to go through the hassle so I paid $90 for that stupid option, but ...

JonRaven

Jan 23, 2004, 09:37 PM

Honestly it doesnt really matter if I can sell them...cause here was the issue.

To upgrade from the 2x256 chips to the 1x512 it was gonna cst me $150 Canadian. I would then buy an aftermarket 1x512 to fill the two slots and have 1 gig of ram. But the thing is...I found out that kingston and crucial both sell a 1x512 chip for $150 canadian....so...I opted to just take the standard configured powerbook 1.25 and buy 2x512 chips for $300 canadian and keep the 2x256 chips while still haveing 1 gig of ram in the machine....other then having paid the $300 Canadian to just have the 2x512 chips and nothing else...you understand? I just wasn't willing to throw the other ram chips to the wind. Doesn't that make sense?

It does to me anyways.

Cheers to my fellow mac lovers on thsi Friday evening!

Jon

ectocooler

Jan 23, 2004, 11:40 PM

I ordered a 15" powerbook @1.25ghz, backlit keyboard, 512mb ram, 60gb hard drive, combo drive on 1/16/03 along with a powermac g4. the powermac g4 shipped no problem on the 20th i think. the powerbook was supposed to ship by the 21st. didnt happen. the date was pushed back to feb 3rd...

now i'm wondering if i should cancel and reorder. its probably a good idea. i emailed the apple store and this was my reply:

Dear Valued Apple Customer,

__ _We appreciate your recent Apple Store Order XXXXXXXXXX

__ _Due to an unexpected supply delay, we are unable to ship the following
__ _item(s) by the date that you were originally quoted:

__ PBG4 15.2/1.25GHZ/512/60/CMBO/AP/BL/LL
__ _will now ship on or before 02/03/2004

__ _Please note that product availability can change rapidly, and it is
__ _possible that your order may ship much sooner than we anticipate. _You
__ _may even receive a shipment confirmation between the time we send this
__ _email and the time that you read it.

hmmm... what to do...

Snowy_River

Jan 24, 2004, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by JonRaven
Anyone hear about the 1 gig ram chips yet? Are they roughly the same price as two 512 chips?

At this point the 1GB RAM chips are still notably more than two 512MB chips. However, the price quoted earlier is not nearly the best price around...

Originally posted by MacRAND
RAM
1GB DDR333 SDRAM SODIMM for 17" & 15" (alum) G4 PBs
$699.99 each 1GB chip
:eek:
http://www.macfriends.com/pages/products/ram.html

As compared to OWC's (http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrades.cfm?model=187&type=Memory&TI=%23TimeFormat%28Now%28%29%2C+&shoupgrds=Show+Upgrades) price:

1GB (1024MB) PC2700 DDR-SO 333MHz
$479.99

While I have seen slightly better prices than those offered at OWC, I have had absolutely outstanding customer service from them (including having them overnight a replacement RAM chip when the first one they sent didn't work, so I could install it for my parents before I had to go back home). So, I highly recommend OWC.

aswitcher

Jan 24, 2004, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by ectocooler
I ordered a 15" powerbook @1.25ghz, backlit keyboard, 512mb ram, 60gb hard drive, combo drive on 1/16/03 along with a powermac g4. the powermac g4 shipped no problem on the 20th i think. the powerbook was supposed to ship by the 21st. didnt happen. the date was pushed back to feb 3rd...

now i'm wondering if i should cancel and reorder. its probably a good idea. i emailed the apple store and this was my reply:

Dear Valued Apple Customer,

__ _We appreciate your recent Apple Store Order XXXXXXXXXX

__ _Due to an unexpected supply delay, we are unable to ship the following
__ _item(s) by the date that you were originally quoted:

__ PBG4 15.2/1.25GHZ/512/60/CMBO/AP/BL/LL
__ _will now ship on or before 02/03/2004

__ _Please note that product availability can change rapidly, and it is
__ _possible that your order may ship much sooner than we anticipate. _You
__ _may even receive a shipment confirmation between the time we send this
__ _email and the time that you read it.

hmmm... what to do...

Pray that the delay is due to an imminent upgrade :)

Deggy

Jan 24, 2004, 08:37 AM

I wonder if the 10 day rule works if you buy through a third party like PC World Business (UK), as I have an excellent price quoted for the 1.25 superdrive.

They have the unit in stock, so it wouldn't be subject to a delay from them as with the Apple store.

I was going to order mid next week, as I am getting a bit desperate putting off my purchase so long already. I'm the CTO of our company and the Sales Director has a 1.25, seems wrong that the techie has a lower spec machine. :D

What to do? Order now and risk it, or loose a few more days play time, and still get no speed bump.

My daughter (age 7) will be pleased when I do finally get it as she is having my 2 year old PB550
:D

redAPPLE

Jan 24, 2004, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by McMike
Why won't they speed-bump the little PB?

But seriously, I can't wait G5 PB, not any speed-bumps. However I have one problem: Can anybody tell me how Apple is gonna put the G5's in the 12"? I know additional heating is great but maybe not directly on my knees!

:cool:

i may be speculating here, but have you seen the xserves? the ones with the holes in front? that would do ok for the powerbook right? but Apple might give away umbrellas for free :D

redAPPLE

Jan 24, 2004, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by crees!
Here's a rule of thumb to go by. Never, NEVER, buy a product 1 month before or after a keynote.

there is one problem... Apple almost ceased to announce products only during keynotes.

NNO-Stephen

Jan 24, 2004, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by redAPPLE
i may be speculating here, but have you seen the xserves? the ones with the holes in front? that would do ok for the powerbook right? but Apple might give away umbrellas for free :D

yeah, those also have 3 hard drives, and two 2.0Ghz CPUs in them, in addition to PCI-X, and many others that won't make it to PowerBooks. and besides, those are built for future hotter processors, as were the G5 cases. PowerBooks won't have one of the processors, two of the HDs...

here is what the Xserve comes with

Each Xserve model features dual FireWire 800 ports, one FireWire 400 port, two USB 2.0 ports, an industry standard DB-9 serial port. You can expand the system using the latest 133MHz PCI-X expansion protocol with throughput of 2GBps. Add one full-length card running at 133MHz or 2 short form running at 100MHz.

PowerBooks will have 1 FW800, 1 FW 400, two USB 2.0 ports, no DB-9 serial, no PCI-X slots. that cuts a lot out of it... on top of that, they are running 7200 RPM S-ATA HDs... THREE OF THEM! PowerBooks will run 4200, or maybe 5400 RPM HDs, smaller, and only one of them. so yeah, the air vents are there for a reason... more ****, and future faster processors... that and you stack these dual processor systems in racks where the heat has not as much room to go as a PowerBook, so they are crucial.

MacRAND

Jan 24, 2004, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Deggy
I wonder if the 10 day rule works if you buy through a third party like PC World Business (UK), as I have an excellent price quoted for the 1.25 superdrive.
They have the unit in stock, so ...no delay from them as with the Apple store.
... getting a bit desperate putting off my purchase so long already.
I'm the CTO of our company and the Sales Director has a 1.25, seems wrong that the techie has a lower spec machine. :D
What to do? Order now and risk it, or loose a few more days play time, and still get no speed bump.
My daughter (age 7) will be pleased when I do finally get it as she is having my 2 year old PB550Deggy, the only way you are going to know what the "return policy" is for PC World Business (UK) is to ASK them and get it in WRITING.
Since the 15" PowerBook is loaded with features, except for the slow speed and small size of its one standard Hard Drive, meaning you should consider the option of enlarging and speeding up the HD, and the standard RAM configuration, which has already been thoroughly discussed and well thought out above, JUST DO IT!

While you might wait past the 2nd of February to see if there is indeed a 10% bump in speed about then, there are other indications that nothing will happen until after the 15th, if during February at all. :rolleyes:
Unless you plan to use your PB for CPU intensive work like video editing or major Photoshop creating, that 10% bump in G4 speed is almost meaningless when compared to possibly waiting forever.
Maxing out the only 2 RAM slots available and installing a faster HD are excellent solutions for the 2 most notorious speed bottlenecks in a PB (I especially like the idea of buying the PB with the slow, small size standard drive, then immediately replacing it with a fast aftermarket IBM, Hitachi, or other brand 60 or 80GB 7200 rpm drive since you would still have the original drive which can be inserted into an external enclosure [FireWire or USB 2] and the cost of the new high-speed replacement would be only nominally more than what Apple charges for its mere 5400 rpm upgrade option).

Seven years old is NOT too young to learn how to touch type with both hands and all 10 fingers a la Broderbund's Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing® 9 for Macintosh, Typing Instructor Deluxe 16, or some other typing software for kids, and
25 wpm on a standard typing test is not an unreasonable goal or condition to her gaining "title" ownership of your old PB.
Then having learned how to type, she can play all the games she wants ;)

BagelTycoon

Jan 24, 2004, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by redAPPLE
there is one problem... Apple almost ceased to announce products only during keynotes.

It sure seems that way. The MWSF keynote was a letdown for hope for hardware ike G5 PBs, G5 iMacs, etc.

All Jobs did was keep to his 'we've got great things in store for 2004' minset

It's become nothing more than a teaser to juice up the rumors on what might happen....clever marketing, but obviously a let-down for users

MacRAND

Jan 25, 2004, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by BagelTycoon
The MWSF keynote was a letdown for hope for hardware like G5 PBs, G5 iMacs, etc.
All Jobs did was keep to his 'we've got great things in store for 2004 mindset It would be nice to have a new hardware release every MWSF or other conference, but timing is dictated more by supply and manufacturer's schedules. Apple obviously has design and technology problems (mostly heat related) to solve before a G5 is going into PowerBooks, which will undoubtedly be solved over TIME.

IBM is designing and producing smaller, faster and more efficient G5 chips all the time, which will benefit Mac production once IBM can deliver 10 or 20 thousand of them at a time, thereby permitting Apple to build a run of new Mac models.

I think the rhyme & reason to hardware releases has more to do with coordinated timing and luck than marketing strategy or anything else. Steve isn't going to release a new model until it has been properly tested and Apple has enough stock to distribute properly, otherwise corporate Apple may have to eat an expensive load of returns that catch fire, have dead pixels or "white spots", the laser drive eats DVD & CD blanks for lunch, or the motherboard hates Panther paws. Apple cannot afford to suffer a black eye to its reputation.

Sometimes I feel that our rumor speculations over new hardware releases is akin to a bunch of five year olds wondering what brightly wrapped packages will be under the Christmas tree, and wishing Santa Steve and his Apple Elves would hurry the hell up! Then when the fast new apple red X-model bike we are hoping for isn't there Christmas morning, we pray it will show up on our next birthday, or maybe just as a surprise 'cause we've been good!
(I'm guilty, how about you?)

Besides the inevitable G5 chip for PBs, I wish Apple would
stop putting 4200 rpm HDs in PowerBooks and iBooks, make 5400 rpm standard and 7200 rpm as a reasonably priced option, and
start putting 8x write DVD SuperDrives in towers and laptops alike, and even
sell 8x Pioneer or Plextor SuperDrives direct as upgrades and replacements for existing Mac towers and laptops; and make
printable surface DVD blanks for all speeds as standard issue - besides direct printing with an Epson R300, 900, or 960 photo printer, writable/printable surfaces are easier to write on.

And, oh I can't wait for the next generation of bigger & brighter Cinema Displays with higher resolution and a thiner aluminum frame suitable for wall mount or desktop. Where's my 30"?
;)

Bear

Jan 25, 2004, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by MacRAND
...
start putting 8x write DVD SuperDrives in towers and laptops alike, and even
sell 8x Pioneer or Plextor SuperDrives direct as upgrades and replacements for existing Mac towers and laptops; and make
printable surface DVD blanks for all speeds as standard issue - besides direct printing with an Epson R300, 900, or 960 photo printer, writable/printable surfaces are easier to write on.
...[/B]
I expect we'll see the faster superdrives as soon as Apple can get a reasonable supply of them guaranteed.

As for the media, there are plenty of places to buy media from. Go there for the media. You'll get better prices than Apple could ever give you at the other places.

Bear

Jan 25, 2004, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by redAPPLE
there is one problem... Apple almost ceased to announce products only during keynotes. True, however, last year they announced products over the month following the keynote at Macworld SF. I expect Apple will do announcements as the equipment is ready,

Also, by seperating the announcements out, the sales people can learn one new product set in a given week. This means they'll be able to give more accurate information faster, Alsp, the Apple store gets overloaded enough with one system update, why kill it by update several things at once?

MacRAND

Jan 25, 2004, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Bear
I expect we'll see the faster superdrives as soon as Apple can get a reasonable supply of them guaranteed.
Yes, I agree. That's what Apple did with little or no fanfare when 4x came out. But, I'd like to see 8x speed in the laptops too.
P.S. I really am disappointed with the lack of performance in the SONY drawer style Combo drive in my iBook 700. Although a sound plays when the Eject button is pushed, the Drawer will not open by itself.
I have to use a PaperClip, which has now become the iPaperClip attachment.
Plus, the SONY is bad (hangs up, :confused: ) when reading DVD-R discs, compared to my G4 DP 1GHz or JVC DVD player.

As for the media, there are plenty of places to buy media from. Go there for the media. You'll get better prices than Apple could ever give you at the other places. Not necessarily. Availability of 8x especially "printable" DVD blanks is thin everywhere. And, Apple pioneered cheaper prices for DVD 2x and 4x and could do the same for 8x. When Apple introduced SuperDrives, iMovie and iDVD, DVD-R blanks were over $23 each. Initially, Apple offered 5 for $49, which quickly became $25, then $19 and then $15, and recently $7.99 (oops! all the 2x are gone from the Apple Store online, just 4x 5-pack for $9.99)
The problem with non-Apple DVD blanks is questionable compatibility with my Mac (not easy to determine quality since no real standard) and the usual "bulk buying" requirement to get a competitive price. Nothing like being able to buy an Apple 5 pack of DVD-R blanks guaranteed to burn right every time on a Mac.
:D

NNO-Stephen

Jan 25, 2004, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by MacRAND
Yes, I agree. That's what Apple did with little or no fanfare when 4x came out. But, I'd like to see 8x speed in the laptops too.
P.S. I really am disappointed with the lack of performance in the SONY drawer style Combo drive in my iBook 700. Although a sound plays when the Eject button is pushed, the Drawer will not open by itself.
I have to use a PaperClip, which has now become the iPaperClip attachment.
Plus, the SONY is bad (hangs up, :confused: ) when reading DVD-R discs, compared to my G4 DP 1GHz or JVC DVD player.

Not necessarily. Availability of 8x especially "printable" DVD blanks is thin everywhere. And, Apple pioneered cheaper prices for DVD 2x and 4x and could do the same for 8x. When Apple introduced SuperDrives, iMovie and iDVD, DVD-R blanks were over $23 each. Initially, Apple offered 5 for $49, which quickly became $25, then $19 and then $15, and recently $7.99 (oops! all the 2x are gone from the Apple Store online, just 4x 5-pack for $9.99)
The problem with non-Apple DVD blanks is [B]questionable compatibility with my Mac (not easy to determine quality since no real standard) and the usual "bulk buying" requirement to get a competitive price. Nothing like being able to buy an Apple 5 pack of DVD-R blanks guaranteed to burn right every time on a Mac.
:D

I just got like four SIX packs of SONY DVD+R media for less than ten bucks each... great price, and they have exceptional quality and never have messed up once. also, this is on a brand new after market Pioneer DVR-A06 drive I just put in my Quicksilver G4, but still, they work great, and are cheaper than Apple's.

crees!

Jan 25, 2004, 04:54 PM

8x DVD drives? Why not 16x since Apple likes to be ahead of the curve.

JonRaven

Jan 25, 2004, 05:49 PM

Thank heavens...I thought I was the only one here who has been thinking for a long long timethat 2x burning is simply too long a burn time. I guess we as a society are becoming Tech Snobs and spoiled into wanting fast burning times with CDs and DVDs.... but I am ok with knwoing I have a problem...hehehehe. I Initially as I said in my prior posts think the 2x burners are too slow for my likeing enough that I was opting to swap out the superdrive in my new custom 1.25 pbook...but after all my problems with getting it swapped out and all I have decided to give in and take the superdrive afterall...and now after changing my mind...I have come to the conclusion it is better to have the option to burn a DVD (even if a slow burn) then not.

My prior thoughts of spending that $300 Canadian on an external burner that is much faster... is indeed like some of you have suggested to me...not the greatest idea..as I would then have more to carry around wiith my laptop...and then where would the "Portability" idea..go? Right?

Anyways....Again....just my thoughts...but....

I was glad to hear someone say in a recent post, that they thought my idea of swapping the 4200RPM hard drive that is standard in our powerbooks with a faster after market drive and then putting the standard drive into a usb/firewire small pocket enclosure was a goood idea. Thanks man for saying so and making me feel I am a little... less crazy then I sometimes feel!

Take care everyone...and can't wait to see what the all mighty apple is showing us Tommorrow!

Cheers

marks

Jan 25, 2004, 07:57 PM

Yes, faster DVD burning would be nice.

But, just so you know, iDVD does not work if you do not have an internal superdrive. I mean it does not work AT ALL. You can't burn DVD's without third party software. In fact, it can't even be installed on your computer. Last year Apple sent me a comp copy of iLife and there were 2 versions. One for the Superdrive people with iDVD on it, and one for people like me, with just the other 3 programs. Now it might not be worth spending the extra $180 just to have idvd work, but think about the alternative: you might get burn speeds of 4x or 6x? with your external drive which will cost you $200 anyway. Then you will have to go and buy a third party software program like Toast Titanium ($70) or DVD PRO ($400) that will let you burn DVDs on your external drive, which is what I have to do. iDVD lets you make semi-professional DVDs and they give you the program free if you buy a superdrive Mac.

Anyway, just thought you might not have know.

I just ordered a PB G4 1.25 SD which is scheduled to ship on 1/29. I hope Apple introduces this week so I have a chance to upgrade my order

marks

Jan 25, 2004, 07:59 PM

I forgot one other thing. External DVD drives are not portable. Are you planning on traveling with your external DVD drive which is as big as a 12" Powerbook with it's power cord and noise to go along with it?

Bear

Jan 25, 2004, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by marks
I forgot one other thing. External DVD drives are not portable. Are you planning on traveling with your external DVD drive which is as big as a 12" Powerbook with it's power cord and noise to go along with it? A very good point that a lot of people seem to forget. Or maybe they don't need a DVD drive when they're not at home.

However, I keep seeing people make suggestions that they don't realize the portability issues. I for one will go for the internal superdrive.

Also as a side point, if you're getting Applecare, the Apple superdrive will have a 3 year warranty.

MacRAND

Jan 25, 2004, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by crees!
8x DVD drives? Why not 16x since Apple likes to be ahead of the curve. Don't you think Apple should wait until Pioneer, Plextor or some other laser drive manufacturer develops the technology, designs a 16x DVD burner, then actually manufacturers it before we expect Apple to install one in a computer?

I thought they were doing pretty good to come out with an 8x at such a reasonable price. Undoubtedly they are working on a 12x or 16x as the next level, I can be patient. I just love my toys to get faster and better.
:)

crees!

Jan 25, 2004, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by MacRAND
Don't you think Apple should wait until Pioneer, Plextor or some other laser drive manufacturer develops the technology, designs a 16x DVD burner, then actually manufacturers it before we expect Apple to install one in a computer?

I thought they were doing pretty good to come out with an 8x at such a reasonable price. Undoubtedly they are working on a 12x or 16x as the next level, I can be patient. I just love my toys to get faster and better.
:)

Rumor upon rumor seems to distort the next. Looking into it, Philips has demoed a 16x DVD+R burner and expects them to be out by the end of this year. Though it's +R I'm sure -R will soon follow.

Bear

Jan 25, 2004, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by MacRAND
Don't you think Apple should wait until Pioneer, Plextor or some other laser drive manufacturer develops the technology, designs a 16x DVD burner, then actually manufacturers it before we expect Apple to install one in a computer?

I thought they were doing pretty good to come out with an 8x at such a reasonable price. Undoubtedly they are working on a 12x or 16x as the next level, I can be patient. I just love my toys to get faster and better.
:) Much like CD-Rs, I expect DVD-Rs to have a maximum reasonable burn spead. Burning CD=-Rs above 32x tends towards more coasters and more usability issues on the burned CDs. besides a disk in 3 minutes (or less) is fine.

With a DVD burner, I expect 8x which will be about 8 or 9 minutes for the whole DVD to be reasonable and probably at the limits.

Remember CD-Rs and DVD-Rs will wobble more at higher speeds and cause problems.

JonRaven

Jan 25, 2004, 09:14 PM

Yes I guess since I bought both the applecare and the superdrive 1.25 model pbook that it will be covered for three years as well so I guess if it stops working I will end up with an upgraded (faster) drive as well... so I guess it does make sense to pay the extra amount and get the internal superdrive afterall. Plus yes I am sarting to agree with the portability issues as well as the iDVD software thoughts.

My scepticism towards the superdrives in the pbook series all started when I tried to burn a DVD copy of a recorded show I played last month on a friends powerbook....and the thing took soo long to burn and I was not feeling good at the time and the time seemed even longer because of it (you all know how sickness can make time excruiating). So I figured when I bought my own powerbook that I would opt out on the internal and go for a faster one....but I am starting to see that that thought is not as smart as I used to. But i still would love for APPLE to give me one of the faster upgrades (if they release this week) in exchange for the slow one.

I don't neccessaily want a faster processor then the 1.25 seeing as it will move like lightning compared to my G3 Pismo Pbook. But I would love to have the faster DVD burning and whatever other cool upgrades they might throw in...or even scarp all those and just give me a faster DVD burner and a discount of some kind.

Cheers to all my new Apple friends on here.

chriscorcoran

Jan 25, 2004, 09:22 PM

Did any one notice that the next verison of the PowerPC 970s were confirmed by IBM? The PowerPC 970FX. With the timing of this rumor and the fact the new chips only use half the power of the current G5s it leads me to believe that maybe some truth in the release of new powerbooks. And lets not forget Steve did say that there would be G5 PowerBooks by the end of the year and Steve in never wrong. lol

Viva Apple!

Snowy_River

Jan 26, 2004, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by marks
Yes, faster DVD burning would be nice.

But, just so you know, iDVD does not work if you do not have an internal superdrive. I mean it does not work AT ALL. You can't burn DVD's without third party software. In fact, it can't even be installed on your computer. Last year Apple sent me a comp copy of iLife and there were 2 versions. One for the Superdrive people with iDVD on it, and one for people like me, with just the other 3 programs.

Now, I'm puzzled by this. I bought iLife about a year ago, and it came on 2 CDs, one was for iTunes, iPhoto and iMovie, and the other was just iDVD. iDVD is a big program. Is this what you thought was the two different versions?

Now it might not be worth spending the extra $180 just to have idvd work, but think about the alternative: you might get burn speeds of 4x or 6x? with your external drive which will cost you $200 anyway. Then you will have to go and buy a third party software program like Toast Titanium ($70) or DVD PRO ($400) that will let you burn DVDs on your external drive, which is what I have to do. iDVD lets you make semi-professional DVDs and they give you the program free if you buy a superdrive Mac.

Just another little bit of food for thought. Most external DVD burners now come with software to allow DVD burning, like Toast Lite. So, the $200 for the external is really total cost. Now, if you want the added features of something like Toast Titanium, then you can spend the money on it.

Snowy_River

Jan 26, 2004, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by chriscorcoran
Did any one notice that the next verison of the PowerPC 970s were confirmed by IBM? The PowerPC 970FX. With the timing of this rumor and the fact the new chips only use half the power of the current G5s it leads me to believe that maybe some truth in the release of new powerbooks. And lets not forget Steve did say that there would be G5 PowerBooks by the end of the year and Steve in never wrong. lol

Viva Apple!

The processor alone, alas, is not enough to put the G5 into a PowerBook.

This topic is extensively discussed here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56734).

MacRAND

Jan 26, 2004, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by crees!
Rumor upon rumor seems to distort the next. Looking into it, Philips has demoed a 16x DVD+R burner and expects them to be out by the end of this year. Though it's +R I'm sure -R will soon follow. Don't Philips and SONY have a fixation on +R tech? And didn't SONY bet all of its chips on Beta instead of VHS? (Beta was better, but SONY got selfish and lost to VHS. Here we go again with -/+R battle?)

Every time a new DVD speed is released for manufacture and distribution, rest assured that the next step higher in speed is already being tested in someone's lab, or maybe even being readied for demo (remember Lisa 20 years ago?).

Phillips came up with algorithms that made CDs and now DVDs possible, so it's not surprising that it is one of the top labs pushing the envelope. However, going much beyond 16x, say to 24x, is approaching the physical limits of DVD writing on spinning plastic discs. Take heart, there are other paths for technology to pursue in order to achieve better read/write speeds than mere disc rotation speeds; the challenge is which technology will the industry pull out of Pandora's box?

IBM recently sold its Hard Drive business to Hitachi reportedly because HD technology is rapidly approaching a dead end, while speed and capacity of flash memory is in its infancy.
I believe DVDs as we know them are also approaching a dead end, at least as far as write speed is concerned, soon - even capacity. Will this open the field to competitive media, or simply foster a new approach for laying down tracks on a spinning disc?
What about 3 dimensional memory?

Digital image technology is rapidly replacing chemical technology of photo film. Kodak has announced it is ending manufacture of film Cameras in North America, but will continue to exploit 3rd world markets such as China.

With its Rebel, Canon has broken the $1000 price barrier for a quality Single Lens Reflex digital camera with interchangeable lenses.
The age of the digital image has a arrived in support of Apple's Digital Hub. This can only mean that more & more techno Toys are on the way. :)

crees!

Jan 26, 2004, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by MacRAND
Don't Philips and SONY have a fixation on +R tech? And didn't SONY bet all of its chips on Beta instead of VHS? (Beta was better, but SONY got selfish and lost to VHS. Here we go again with -/+R battle?)

Every time a new DVD speed is released for manufacture and distribution, rest assured that the next step higher in speed is already being tested in someone's lab, or maybe even being readied for demo (remember Lisa 20 years ago?).

Phillips came up with algorithms that made CDs and now DVDs possible, so it's not surprising that it is one of the top labs pushing the envelope. However, going much beyond 16x, say to 24x, is approaching the physical limits of DVD writing on spinning plastic discs. Take heart, there are other paths for technology to pursue in order to achieve better read/write speeds than mere disc rotation speeds; the challenge is which technology will the industry pull out of Pandora's box?

IBM recently sold its Hard Drive business to Hitachi reportedly because HD technology is rapidly approaching a dead end, while speed and capacity of flash memory is in its infancy.
I believe DVDs as we know them are also approaching a dead end, at least as far as write speed is concerned, soon - even capacity. Will this open the field to competitive media, or simply foster a new approach for laying down tracks on a spinning disc?
What about 3 dimensional memory?

I'm totally with you on this... seeing somewhere like you need a constant 500Mbps data stream to burn at 16x which most likely will be the "fastest" DVD burn speed. Could be 24x like you said but I haven't look too far into it.

I would say the next generation of harddrives are going to be pretty exciting. I read up a ton about new storage technologies about a year ago (holographic and atomic storage, among others)... pretty promising stuff.

kingtj

Jan 26, 2004, 09:41 AM

Personally, I'd guess that IBM sold their hard drive business more because they decided to dump it after all the problems with defective IBM Deskstar IDE drives. (Seems odd it changed hands right after that fiasco was at its height - with people starting to call their drives "Deathstars" and so on.)

I agree that eventually, some type of flash memory will be the future hard drive replacement, but I don't think it's coming any time too soon. Flash technology still hasn't even really addressed one of the largest hurdles; a limited number of reads/writes before it wears out. This issue isn't so bad on something like a flash memory stick for a camera - where you really don't rewrite to the thing thousands of times in a short period of time. But computers write data and erase it again *all the time* while you run applications (temporary files/directories, virtual memory on the hard disk, etc.).

It takes longer to kill off a technology than many of us "techies" would like to admit. Look at the floppy disk. Completely outdated and obsolete technology, yet almost every Windows-based PC *still* ships with one, and Sony kept using them in their "FDC" line of digital cameras quite recently. There's at least a couple manufacturers still finding it profitable to build new floppy disk drives.

That's why I say, you won't see hard drives going away any time too soon. We'll probably just end up with 2 or 3 manufacturers supplying all of them, and they'll be more of a commodity item than something getting lots of updates and size increases in the future. (There's still some room for advances in laptop drives, however. You can't even buy a 7200RPM laptop drive in sizes larger than 60GB today!)

Originally posted by MacRAND

IBM recently sold its Hard Drive business to Hitachi reportedly because HD technology is rapidly approaching a dead end, while speed and capacity of flash memory is in its infancy.
I believe DVDs as we know them are also approaching a dead end, at least as far as write speed is concerned, soon - even capacity. Will this open the field to competitive media, or simply foster a new approach for laying down tracks on a spinning disc?
What about 3 dimensional memory?

JonRaven

Jan 26, 2004, 10:03 PM

Hey there again

Has anyone heard what the new 7200RPM drives are like in the powerbooks? I was wondering how much extra heat and noise they cause over the 5400rpm ones. I finally got my 1.25 today from the shipper and everything seems to be in order. I know...it is about time as far as I am concerned with all the problems i had been having getting it.

Anyways I am thinking about doing the drive swap i was talking about...but i dont wanna ruin my powerbook by putting in a 7200rpm drive if it is going to catch on fire or sound like a jet engine when it is booting up or doing some Pro Tools plug in adjustment.

Any thoughts?

Because i didn't end up buying a custom and took the stock 1.25 with superdrive and i just got it today and am planning on signing the bill tommorrow to pay for it....I guess I will be ok for the apple 10 day policy! Wouldn't you think? I am not worried about getting any faster processor or anything...I am sure I am going to be quite happy with my 1.25....but the $300 will be nice as a refund!

If you have any real world experiance or links or anything about the 7200 drives going in aluminum powerbooks....let me know as soon as possible please.

Thanks everyone as usual for listening to my rants hahahahha

Cheers and best wishes for tomorrow everyone.

Jon Raven

crees!

Jan 26, 2004, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven
Hey there again

Has anyone heard what the new 7200RPM drives are like in the powerbooks? I was wondering how much extra heat and noise they cause over the 5400rpm ones. I finally got my 1.25 today from the shipper and everything seems to be in order. I know...it is about time as far as I am concerned with all the problems i had been having getting it.

Anyways I am thinking about doing the drive swap i was talking about...but i dont wanna ruin my powerbook by putting in a 7200rpm drive if it is going to catch on fire or sound like a jet engine when it is booting up or doing some Pro Tools plug in adjustment.

Any thoughts?

Because i didn't end up buying a custom and took the stock 1.25 with superdrive and i just got it today and am planning on signing the bill tommorrow to pay for it....I guess I will be ok for the apple 10 day policy! Wouldn't you think? I am not worried about getting any faster processor or anything...I am sure I am going to be quite happy with my 1.25....but the $300 will be nice as a refund!

If you have any real world experiance or links or anything about the 7200 drives going in aluminum powerbooks....let me know as soon as possible please.

Thanks everyone as usual for listening to my rants hahahahha

Cheers and best wishes for tomorrow everyone.

Jon Raven

I really don't know the need for that fast a HD in a laptop. I have the 5400 drive and I do video editing and high res digital imaging.. plus play demanding games.. so... I don't know what to say other than don't go through the extra trouble.

MacRAND

Jan 27, 2004, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by JonRaven
Has anyone heard what the new 7200RPM drives are like in the powerbooks?
I was wondering how much extra heat and noise they cause over the 5400rpm ones.
Any thoughts?
Jon Raven http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Page.cfm?Parent=91&Title=2%2E5%22%20IDE%20%26%20SCSI%20for%20Laptops&Template=
60.0GB Hitachi/IBM Travelstar 7K60 **7200RPM** 8MB Data Buffer ATA/6 9.5mm UltraSlim 2.5" NoteBook Drive. 3yr Hitachi Warranty. (HIT08K0939) $259.99
Details: http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=5930&Item=HIT08K0939

My buddy Dennis had a slow 20 GB HD in his Ti PB, does heavy video editing with FCP4, wanted a larger, smoother, faster drive so he put this 60 GB Hitachi/IBM Travelstar 7K60 7200 rpm 8MB Buffer HD inside and loves it; says it is noticeably faster and he has fewer dropped frames. Ti PB are already hot, but does not feel 7200rpm has added any heat or noise, but maybe a little more load on battery, however he always uses AC except while on the road.
Says he'll take 7200rpm out when he replaces his 15" Ti PB with a new 17" PB, so he can put it in the new one.
He has a few prejudices, loves IBM and is crazy about speed and quality. Got to have the best!
Uses the old drive in a compact external FireWire enclosure for raw footage.

Also planning to use his DVD Studio Pro 2 to burn DVDs to an EXTERNAL FW 8x DVD SuperDrive and as soon as Apple comes up with the driver for either Pioneer or Plextor.

What are your priorities, Jon?
:cool:

kingtj

Jan 27, 2004, 12:27 AM

Yeah... I was considering putting a 7200RPM in my Powerbook 15" myself (since I just ordered it with the stock 4200RPM drive). I know on my old Toshiba laptop, the hard drive definitely felt like it was the one thing holding back the overall performance of the system - so I feared the 4200RPM drive in the PB 15" would be the same way.

So far though, it doesn't feel slow at all. I guess despite the 4200RPM rotational speed, everything else has been improved over the technology used in older laptop drives.

I read a few messages on this topic (don't have the URLs handy anymore to refer you to them, though), and the general opinion seemed to be that putting a 7200RPM in an Aluminum Powerbook only gives a marginal speed boost. (Benchmarks will say it's better, but in "real world" use, you won't see that much difference.)

Originally posted by crees!
I really don't know the need for that fast a HD in a laptop. I have the 5400 drive and I do video editing and high res digital imaging.. plus play demanding games.. so... I don't know what to say other than don't go through the extra trouble.

MacRAND

Jan 27, 2004, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by kingtj
... on my old Toshiba laptop, the hard drive definitely felt like it was the one thing holding back the overall performance of the system - so I feared the 4200 rpm drive in the PB 15" would be the same way.

I read a few messages on this topic and the general opinion seemed to be that putting a 7200 rpm in an Aluminum Powerbook only gives a marginal speed boost. (Benchmarks will say it's better, but in "real world" use, you won't see that much difference.) If all a person does with their PowerBook is surf the internet, shuffle eMails, and write a letter while listening to iTunes, the " speed boost" accomplished by jumping from 4200 to 7200 rpm is indeed only a "marginal" improvement.

A HD speed boost becomes clearly significant when running FinalCut Pro 4.0, DVD Studio Pro 2, Toast 6, Adobe Digital Design Creative Suite programs, installing programs & updates, or doing any Hard Drive intenive work.

A 4200 rpm HD is a bottleneck when a 25-33% gain in speed is paramount to a High-End user considering an upgrade to 7200 rpm.
But, a 7200 rpm drive is a waste of money (about $100 difference) if your use never challenges the speed limits of your system.
Admittedly, the difference for those in the middle with a 5400 rpm drive is much less significant (and indeed "nominal") and may very well be hard to justify unless the user is truly a high-end professional or otherwise has an excuse for replacing the drive such as to increase memory storage size.

So the question becomes:

Can I get by with a 4200 rpm drive and thereby conserve battery power (actually, a comparison of power draw stats show a negligible difference)? or

Do I need maximum HD performance since I often tax the speed limitations of my system especially the hard drive?

Is it worth $260 to replace a 60 GB
4200 rpm 12ms seek 2mb buffer 7.14 latency Toshba HD with a faster 60 GB
7200 rpm 10ms seek 8mb buffer 4.20 latency Hitachi/IBM HD?

Stats: www.otherworldcomputing.com (hard drives)

Frankly, the only way to get a performance boost out of my 700MHz iBook, since no CPU upgrade is practicable (possible?), is to remove the
30GB 4200 rpm 12ms seek 2mb buffer 7.14 latency Toshba, and replace it with a
60GB 7200 rpm 10ms seek 8mb buffer 4.20 latency Hitachi/IBM.
Plus, I'm running out of room on the 29 GB hard drive and need a 60 GB. ;)
(I want a G4 1GHz (plus) iBook or 15" PB so bad I could just burst!)

JFreak

Jan 27, 2004, 02:46 AM

do not change it yourself! doing that to albook voids warranty. in tibook the hd was user-changeable part, but albook's hd isn't.

but do get the 7200rpm drive! in my experience it runs cooler than 4200rpm drives, doesn't eat battery any more than slower drives, but is hugely faster. i'd say it doubles the speed compared to stock 4200rpm drive, but my hd usage is somewhat greater than average joe's.

hd change from 4200rpm to 7200rpm boosts performance more than adding ram from half to full gigabyte. much more. it just "feels" faster overall even when not doing hd intensive work.

MacRAND

Jan 27, 2004, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by JFreak
Do NOT change Hard Drive yourself! doing that to al Book voids warranty.
In ti Book the HD was user-changeable part, but al Book hd is not.

Get the 7200rpm drive!
I'd say it doubles the speed compared to stock 4200rpm drive, but my hd usage is somewhat greater than average joe's.
HD change from 4200rpm to 7200rpm boosts performance more than adding ram from half to full gigabyte. much more.
It just "feels" faster overall even when not doing hd intensive work. THANKS, JFreak, for the Warranty Warning! about changing out a Hard Drive in the Alum PB and suggesting we use an Apple Authorized Dealer/Repair Service, I would have tried to do it myself! :eek:

Glad to hear someone else feels they have gotten the same benefits out of a significant increase in HD speed, specifically in a laptop, because I have personally been doing that for over 10 years in desktops (MacLC) and towers, always with exceptionally good results.

Although Apple has gotten better about installing faster OEM drives, I really wish they would offer better OPTIONS for Hard Drive speed upgrades out of the Apple Store so we don't have to mess around with it after purchase.
(DO YOU HEAR US, APPLE?) :confused:

tombq

Jan 27, 2004, 04:24 AM

I am having a rought time holding back my purchase that I planned on making last weekend. I need to start work with it asap!

I might decide to get the 17" unit anyway but in this time of pre-64bit chips I am wondering if this will be woefully slow in a year. I will be using it for Adobe Creative Suite and Photoshop and LOTS of internet ... Any advantage to Lever3 cache at 1M IN ADDITION to L2 in the 1G version? Especially if I enhance the unit with a 7200rpm drive?

Finally, is it weird that I prefer the Nvidia card as I NEVER play a game (well, I miht use a flight simulator :)

OR DO I CALM MY JETS and sit tight? (and yes, higher resolution and LCD contrast would be dreamier with a 17" PB)

ragelux

Jan 27, 2004, 04:36 AM

Just to add my 2 cents, I was holding back for a couple of days as well, thinking about waiting until Feb. 2nd to see what happens, but then I decided, what the heck, is all this waiting really worth it?

If Apple announces on Feb 2nd that there will be a minor upgrade, it will take a least another 2-3 weeks or longer until you will receive your Powerbook. (About a month from now on)

I frankly ordered my new 17" Powerbook on Monday and will receive it tomorrow. (Not through the Apple store, but through macconnection.com where I got an extra 512MB Ram, plus 100$ Rebate and Free Printer with it as well)

In my opinion the only upgrade worth waiting for is the one to the G5 CPU.

spaceballl

Jan 27, 2004, 04:49 AM

Do let us know how the 7200 rpm drive affects iBook performance. The 4200 rpm drive is definitely a bottleneck, but only tests will show if 7200 rpm is overkill. I wish a site could show the difference in benchmarks between the stock drive, a 5400 rpm drive, and a 7200 rpm drive. I want to wait until the PB G5 comes out, but I could use a little speed boost on my iBook until then (as WELL as the extra space). I already have the RAM maxed out to 640mb.

have you guys read the Mac OS X Panther review at Ars Tecnica? Definitely the most honest review I've ever seen, but VERY interesting. It states that Panther uses the hard drive a lot for caching, etc... more than OSX did in previous releases so I'm thinking that going to 7200 rpm might be a great idea.

-Kevin

JFreak

Jan 27, 2004, 07:06 AM

faster hard drive is overkill only when the disk would be faster than memory, and that will not happen. hard disk is really slow compared to memory, as memory throughput is some gigabytes and disk throughput is some megabytes [edit: add "per second" here]. that alone is reason enough to get as fast a hard disk as is possible.

you will notice a really nice performance boost in any laptop if original 4200rpm drive is changed to a 7200rpm drive. at the same time disk cache probably grows from 2 to 8 megabytes, which will also affect a lot.

go for it, even for an older ibook.

MacRAND

Jan 27, 2004, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by spaceballl
Do let us know how the 7200 rpm drive affects iBook performance. The 4200 rpm drive is definitely a bottleneck...
I could use a little speed boost on my iBook until then as WELL as the extra space.
...Panther uses the hard drive a lot for caching, etc... more than OSX (Jaguar) did in previous releases so I'm thinking that going to 7200 rpm might be a great idea.
-Kevin KEVIN, you are absolutely right, and our limited RAM is probably a big reason.
It had always bothered me to hear my iBook HD working away at a mere 4200 when I just knew a 7200 would do the work far faster. Like listening to a little 4 cylinder VW Bus puffing away trying to keep up with a V-8 Dodge Hemi cruzing along effortlessly uphill at the same ground speed.

If you need a LARGER Hard Drive, why put another 4200 or even a 5400 in your iBook when you can get a 7200 for not that much more money. You only have ONE hard drive in a laptop.

JonRaven

Jan 27, 2004, 11:20 AM

Hey guys I wanted to thank you all soo much for the help you have been throughout my purchase of my Pbook 1.25 system. I think it is an amazing thing that we all love the mac soo much that we are all so willing to talk each other through stuff and help each other make the best decisions in our mac lives. I mean where the heck is the PC people's forums that they are all so together as a family. I am sorry if this seems korny in some way but holy **** man... I can almost swear that when I used to use PC I did not spend all this time chatting with fellow PC users about our machines.... and I say machines cause that is all a PC is... Our lives are obviously not about machines like those PC people....my fellow mac lovers our lives are about our frame of mind being large enough to understand that we don't need to rely on societies little way of manipulating us into thinking that we should all be accepting that a machine we use to work on should be buggy and corrupt like the PC is. We have all stepped up to the next realm in the thought process and discovered we have a riight to be able to work with a system that just...well....works all the time...as well as looks good and for many reasons...brings us joy.

The truth is I have known hundreds of PC users who have never felt...joy using their machine...nor did they feel pure love for the platform they were using. I have only known you all for just a little while...and i can already see how much you all love the systems you use and the platform thhat you work with....this is an amazing thing that APPLE has given us don't you think?

Anyways enough of my APPLE ranting and back to the 7200RPM drive upgrade discussion. HAHHAHAHHAA

SO... I am opting to get a apple tech at my local store to swap out my stock 4200RPM drive for the 7200RPM we have been talking about as I do Pro Tools recording almost every day as well have both MacromediaMX2004 suite and Adobe CS on all the time as I do web design quite extesively. Do you think there will be much more of a heat or more importantly SOUND problem with the 7200? I dont want to get it all installed to find out it is too noisey to do my recordings. I love how quite my 1.25 is now and I don't mind if it gets a little louder but not too loud.

HAHAHAHHA i always have the long letters for you....wonder who reads them hahahah.

ciao
Jon Raven

MacRAND

Jan 27, 2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by JonRaven
SO... I am opting to get a apple tech at my local store to swap out my stock 4200RPM drive for the 7200RPM we have been talking about as I do Pro Tools recording almost every day as well have both MacromediaMX2004 suite and Adobe CS on all the time as I do web design quite extesively.

Do you think there will be much more of a heat or more importantly SOUND problem with the 7200? I dont want to get it all installed to find out it is too noisey to do my recordings. I love how quite my 1.25 is now and I don't mind if it gets a little louder but not too loud.
Jon Raven An Hitachi/IBM 7200rpm 60GB should run very smooth and quiet compared to a stock Toshiba. Go for it.

JonRaven

Jan 27, 2004, 03:04 PM

I am having an issue with my new pbook 1.25...

With the power adapter plugged in...I am getting these little fizzy sounds when I roll over the dock and any interactive object....but the fizzing stops when I unplug the cord...it is fine on the battery.....anyone have any idea what that is...and if it is just I need a new power adapter or is this sort of thing serious?

PLEASE HELP!

Dave the Great

Jan 27, 2004, 03:26 PM

Its killing me waiting for the new Powerbook g5s.

It is too bad that the first 64 powerbooks that are out are not Apples.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1069301995506&skuId=6249703&type=product

Not bad for $1250, plus they even have a DVD burner version for $100 more.

The downside is that it is 7.5 lbs. and 1.5" thick, but the upside is that it has a much faster processor, a 15.4" screen, and costs half the price of the comparable Apple.

C'Mon Apple do something....

fradac

Jan 27, 2004, 03:28 PM

hmmm. sounds like grounding issue.

1.try wall points around the house, if the problem still exists

2. if it still exists then try wallpoints elsewhere than your house.

3. if it exists on power points in other places then the power adaptor has issue otherwise either the perticular point in the house has grounding issue or the whole house (depending where the problem exists.)

pigwin32

Jan 27, 2004, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven

Has anyone heard what the new 7200RPM drives are like in the powerbooks?
Yep, I bought one for my TiBook 667 and it feels like a new machine, plus I put the old drive into an inexpensive external firewire case and it works great. Definitely one of the better upgrades. Subjectively, I do notice a very minor increase in noise and maybe a little vibration. Of course I wasn't paying attention to what it was like before I swapped the new drive in so it's difficult to be objective. And of course the TiBook is outside warranty so I did the install myself, not too much drama, just a lot of patience required. I installed the drive to tide me over until the G5 PB is available and I'll definitely be taking the 7200 with me (installed by a qualified service engineer obviously).

JonRaven

Jan 27, 2004, 03:43 PM

when I unplug the adapter I no longer have any problems...other then battery drain...of course.

I called some repair places and they all said it sounded like a logic board issue....but then again when I unplug the adapter it works perfectly fine....so I dont know if the logic booard would continue to mess up the system if it is no longer plugged in do you? Also...if I get a good surge protector/power bar...do you think there is a chance it might fix my problems if it is a ground problem? Cause this is an old house.

Hope to hear more soon.

pigwin32

Jan 27, 2004, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by fradac
hmmm. sounds like grounding issue.

1.try wall points around the house, if the problem still exists

2. if it still exists then try wallpoints elsewhere than your house.

3. if it exists on power points in other places then the power adaptor has issue otherwise either the perticular point in the house has grounding issue or the whole house (depending where the problem exists.)

My power adapter only has 2 pins, i.e. there is no earth. I think this excludes grounding as an issue (qualification: I am not an electrician). Might just be a feature, I sometimes notice a noise when I'm accessing the network using the airport and I remember an old work laptop would crackle quite loudly when accessing the LAN.

MacRAND

Jan 27, 2004, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven
I am having an issue with my new pbook 1.25...
With the power adapter plugged in...I am getting these little fizzy sounds when I roll over the dock and any interactive object....but the fizzing stops when I unplug the cord...Jon, do you have an Apple Retail Store near you?
If so, take it in with the Power Adapter.
Try their power supply on the wall with YOUR Adapter.
Try it with one of THEIR Adapters.

Something's got to give. A good Battery Backup cleans the current between you and the wall, so if it's your house wiring/current, that could be a solution, check out COSTCO. It's also good for plugging in your external monitor and even your stereo system. READ the Backup's warnings and directions, avoid extension cords and power strips plugged into it.

Let us know what you find out.

The strangest things happen to you, Jon.
Did you dump some girl who was really a witch and now she's put a spell on you?
Or, your old house could be haunted?
You can get free Holy Water at any Catholic or Episcopal church.

"Exorcism of OS X kills kernel panic and strange noises that go bump in the night?"
:eek:

Otherwise, how's the 15". I'm green with envy. :rolleyes:

dryvlee

Jan 27, 2004, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven
when I unplug the adapter I no longer have any problems...other then battery drain...of course.

I called some repair places and they all said it sounded like a logic board issue....but then again when I unplug the adapter it works perfectly fine....so I dont know if the logic booard would continue to mess up the system if it is no longer plugged in do you? Also...if I get a good surge protector/power bar...do you think there is a chance it might fix my problems if it is a ground problem? Cause this is an old house.

Hope to hear more soon.

Yep its the grounding/earthing problem. It is experienced by many TiBook users including myself and the buzzing sound could be heard over the phone as the telephone lines are affected too. In fact the buzzing over the phone stops when I switch-off the AC mains and not just by unplugging from the Powerbook. Don't think its logic board problem as most of our Tibooks are fine other than this issue. The Albook are supposed to be better but I guess the problem is not completely solved yet.

dryvlee

Jan 27, 2004, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by Dave the Great
Its killing me waiting for the new Powerbook g5s.

It is too bad that the first 64 powerbooks that are out are not Apples.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1069301995506&skuId=6249703&type=product

Not bad for $1250, plus they even have a DVD burner version for $100 more.

The downside is that it is 7.5 lbs. and 1.5" thick, but the upside is that it has a much faster processor, a 15.4" screen, and costs half the price of the comparable Apple.

C'Mon Apple do something....

Have you tried using that machine? I believe it only if you have tried it out.

kingtj

Jan 27, 2004, 09:37 PM

Jon, I absolutely agree about the community spirit of Mac users. I don't know how many of you were into computers back before the IBM PC was really a "standard" - but today's Mac community reminds me a lot of those days, when all the Commodore guys stuck together, the Atari guys stuck together, the TRS-80 guys stuck together, etc.

That was the "golden age" of computers for me. Since then, computing has become more of a routine, a way to earn money (I work in the computer field), and sometimes even drudgery. Most of the excitement and pure fun/joy faded when almost everyone standardized on one platform (PC/Windows).

Getting into the world of the Mac with OS X over the last year has made everything fun and new for me again.

(I purchased a PBook 1.25Ghz myself, by the way - and use it along with my dual 2.0Ghz G5 tower.) I really doubt any extra noise made by a faster HD in your PBook will be enough to cause new problems for your audio recording needs. Every laptop drive I've heard in the last couple years has been incredibly quiet.

I think I'm going to wait until they get a 7200RPM laptop drive out with an 80GB+ capacity, and then have one of them put in my PBook. The biggest 7200RPM drive I can find right now is 60GB, and I need capacity more than speed, all things considered.

Originally posted by JonRaven
Hey guys I wanted to thank you all soo much for the help you have been throughout my purchase of my Pbook 1.25 system. I think it is an amazing thing that we all love the mac soo much that we are all so willing to talk each other through stuff and help each other make the best decisions in our mac lives. I mean where the heck is the PC people's forums that they are all so together as a family.

kingtj

Jan 27, 2004, 09:47 PM

Trust me... there are other downsides, too. That thing is made by eMachines, for starters. If you've ever worked with their desktop computers before, you'll know they're designed to be purely a bargain-basement PC. They use the very cheapest components they can get ahold of, and customer service after the sale is nearly non-existant.

Apple really has nothing to worry about with machines like this, unless they suddenly decide to change their entire marketing strategy - and start competing strictly on price.

(This, IMHO, is much like the situation with the new iPods. Everyone threw a fit that the "minis" weren't priced at the $100 or under price-point to compete with all the cheapie MP3 players. But that isn't the type of product Apple wants their name on! The iPod mini competes quite fairly in price with other players of the same level of quality and containing similar features - such as the Samsung Napster.)

I'd be disappointed in any Apple product using the build-quality and having the level of customer service that comes with an eMachines PC.

Originally posted by Dave the Great
Its killing me waiting for the new Powerbook g5s.

It is too bad that the first 64 powerbooks that are out are not Apples.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1069301995506&skuId=6249703&type=product

Not bad for $1250, plus they even have a DVD burner version for $100 more.

The downside is that it is 7.5 lbs. and 1.5" thick, but the upside is that it has a much faster processor, a 15.4" screen, and costs half the price of the comparable Apple.

C'Mon Apple do something....

JonRaven

Jan 27, 2004, 10:15 PM

Well I guess it is hard to have bad luck when I don't have any at all....but I do hope that this hissing sound is just what you guys are talking about and some sort of old house power current problem that means my new pbook is just fine and just may need a good backup power UPC system like one of you had mentioned...or even possibly just a good quality power/surge bar that cost like $30 and will fix the problem. I would really...and i mean...REALLY hate to send this pbook back now that I finally got it. I have all my needed apps installed and ready to go and my two 512 ram chips are due by courior tommorrow morning to give me my gig of ram I wanted. Anyone in need of some 256 chips hehehhe.

I think I tooo will wait a bit for the 7200 rpm drive till they get them to the 80 gig point as I want space and speed hehehhehehe! I seem like I am greedy for the best but I have gone without soo much the last 5 years that I just want something nice this time ...you know? My old Pismo G3 400 was nice...but this 1.25 pbook should rock in comparison!

Cheers to you all and hey... yet another day without APPLE acknowleging their bday, What happened with the press release where SJ said tommorrow is going to be huge for apple...was he talking about tommorrow as a figuative "tomorrow" as in the future? whatever your doing Apple I am sure we will all praise you when you finally decide to step up to the plate and tell us. HAHAHAHAHA.

Peace My fellow mac lovers

JonRaven

Jan 27, 2004, 10:18 PM

Hey...MacRAND

No I didn't dump a girlfriend to deserve this...but I have often wondered why all the bad luck in my life....and frankly if I even began to tell you what has happened in my life ...you probably wouldn't believe me! hahahha...but thanks for careing buddy!

Oh hey...I always have wondered if this house is haunted though....coincidence? I think not! Good for the songwriting I bet though!

Dave the Great

Jan 27, 2004, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by kingtj
Trust me... there are other downsides, too. That thing is made by eMachines, for starters. If you've ever worked with their desktop computers before, you'll know they're designed to be purely a bargain-basement PC. They use the very cheapest components they can get ahold of, and customer service after the sale is nearly non-existant.

Apple really has nothing to worry about with machines like this, unless they suddenly decide to change their entire marketing strategy - and start competing strictly on price.

(This, IMHO, is much like the situation with the new iPods. Everyone threw a fit that the "minis" weren't priced at the $100 or under price-point to compete with all the cheapie MP3 players. But that isn't the type of product Apple wants their name on! The iPod mini competes quite fairly in price with other players of the same level of quality and containing similar features - such as the Samsung Napster.)

I'd be disappointed in any Apple product using the build-quality and having the level of customer service that comes with an eMachines PC.

To be honest with you, I am not all that familiar with emachines.

But, if you can purchase Best Buy's 3 year warranty for $199, which covers all parts and labor, I think you would be ok. So, I don't know if that would really be a factor,unless of course you don't get the extended warranty.

Yes, I do agree that I would rather pay extra for quality and I don't mind doing that. I am the type of person who is trying to always buy American, even if it is a couple of dollars more.

But, the problem is Apple is double the price when it should be the other way around.

Don't worry. I am not going to buy the emachines. I will continue to wait, but man I wish Apple would hurry up!

kingtj

Jan 27, 2004, 10:57 PM

Well, true - you could get an extended warranty and at least be covered for 3 years. But extended warranties don't cover data loss or your hassles having to disconnect a broken PC and take it back in for an exchange (or waiting with days of downtime for an on-site service person to show up to work on it).

They're also not really going to help you much if you have flaky, intermittent problems you can't reproduce consistently. (Things like inferior quality RAM can do this to you - and it's maddening when it happens.) Sure, you can try to make a warranty claim - but if it works ok when the store's tech. takes a look at it, they'll just blame it on software and give it back to you.

Apple is sometimes "double the price", but it's tough to do a fair comparison. Will the other vendors actually answer the tech. support line with real English-speaking people when you call for help? What's that worth to you? How's their turn-around time when you do send a system in for repair? (Apple is consistently rated at the top of the list for fast turnaround time and customer satisfaction. See Consumer Reports, for ratings on this type of thing.) Even Dell is a distant #2 by comparison (according to last year's survey in PC Magazine, of all places!). Also, when you buy Apple, you're paying more for a system that runs a completely different operating system than the competition. If you find OS X to be superior to Windows (and I know I sure do!), what sort of premium might that be worth paying?

When it's all said and done, there's no doubt a Mac is expensive. I just don't see how it can be any other way. That's like complaining that Porsche makes cars that cost "twice as much as a Ford or Chevy!" and saying "it should be the other way around!". Why would it? You get what you pay for.

Originally posted by Dave the Great
To be honest with you, I am not all that familiar with emachines.

But, if you can purchase Best Buy's 3 year warranty for $199, which covers all parts and labor, I think you would be ok. So, I don't know if that would really be a factor,unless of course you don't get the extended warranty.

Yes, I do agree that I would rather pay extra for quality and I don't mind doing that. I am the type of person who is trying to always buy American, even if it is a couple of dollars more.

But, the problem is Apple is double the price when it should be the other way around.

JonRaven

Jan 28, 2004, 12:24 AM

Bravo KingTJ

I agree completely. Look at it this way...I have written on here quite a bit in the past week with all my issues with my purchase of my new powerbook.....and they all seem very overwelming.... BUT....

They are nothing....and I repeat nothing that I would be encountering if I had of gone out and bought an emachine (of any kind or model). Trust my saying this as I know from much experiance through close friends and my past sales experiiance in the PC computer field. It used to be said that Dell was a terrible machine when they first came out cause they literally through garbage parts together and shipped it out the door....but then miraculously they changed their style and started making quality machines.....but emachines are even worse then dell was in their beginning stages....emachine is called emachine cause it means economy (may not be real definition...but it should be) all the parts have their machines are usually from brand name companies but they are the garbage parts sold to them for dirt because the other companies wont use them. I have used many emachines over the past few years at work and at friends and such....they are...GARBAGE! no ifs ands or buts....they are this and nothing more.

Wheeww... what is with us mac people who have had bad pc experiances....wow we can certainly talk ourselves blue in the face about the negatives about PCs we have used huh? wheew glad my rant about that is over and I can breath again.

Anyways...needless to say...don't allow yourself to go from being an educated yet self minded mac user/lover and turn into a mind slave to the PC market's... well Marketing. GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO WAIT.... if you cant figure out why a G4 powerbook would be good for you...then wait for the G5book... if you have to have something sooner then atleast go for a reputable PC manufacturer...don't ever waste your time and money on a garbage manufacturer.

And hey...we are just trying to save you some major grief here friend... if we didn't care... we woudln't say a word and let you buy one and then watch you cry after.

dryvlee

Jan 28, 2004, 12:44 AM

Just how many of you would be willing to part with your Mac for purpose of repair? Not me, not even for a day. My daily work, contacts, etc goes when my Mac got sent in for repair, although fortunately I could deprive my son of his iBook temporarily but its not the same.

Hence paying double for a computer with hardly any downtime is worth my while compared to sending in warranty covered PCs for repeated fixing-ups with all its inherent problems.

Occasionally you get lemons but to me that is just the luck of the draw.

pigwin32

Jan 28, 2004, 12:57 AM

Just chased a link from (slightly embarrassed cough) macosrumors. This guy has got some serious issues, not least of which is a fondness for Windows XP http://www.overclockers.com/tips1133/. Any chance at all this is a photoshop effort?

JFreak

Jan 28, 2004, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by pigwin32
I do notice a very minor increase in noise and maybe a little vibration.

i did the same; however, mine is dead silent and does vibrate less than the older one. maybe you should redo the installation - you may have one of those rubber feet installed badly.

MacRAND

Jan 28, 2004, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by JonRaven I do hope that this hissing sound is just what you guys are talking about and some sort of old house power current problem that means my new pbook is just fine and just may need a good backup power UPC system like one of you had mentioned...
I think I top will wait a bit for the 7200 rpm drive till they get them to the 80 gig point as I want space and speed
Peace My fellow mac lovers Jon, I installed an expensive Hunter ceiling fan on a Hunter switch in my bedroom, and the thing still hums when it really should not. Only explanation my power company Electrician father-in-law could give me is "sometimes it's just the wiring", you know it's like the guy with a metal plate in his head and he gets radio broadcasts, or it hums and vibrates for no apparent reason. We still don't know everything about electricity. That's why I suggest you plug the PB in at several different places, and try another charger.
Jon, I'm convinced there is nothing wrong with your PB itself.

Is your current HD 4200 or 5400 rpm, 60 or 80GB?

I carry my whole law office on a 30GB HardDrive and only after 2 years am I starting to get anxious about filling it up in the next year or so. For video editing and downloading DV, I use my G4 dp 1GHz with 3 extra internal drives - 2 x 100GB RAID (soft) on a PCI/SCSI bus (fast, for video storage) and a 200GB 7200 drive (too big, disappointingly slow) that is HALF as fast as the combined 200GB RAID! (I was really surprised).
My point is, the 60GB will probably serve you just fine... so, why wait? If you need extra space, go external FireWire (800?).

If I edit on my book, I don't worry about using the internal for storage, I use a 120 GB LaCie FireWire, and since my SONY ComboDrive has been acting up (won't open without an iPaperClip and turns too many CDs into coasters) I bought a 4x LaCie SuperDrive and use DVD Studio and Toast 6 to burn DVDs.

My "portable office" on wheels fits neatly into an American Touristor carry on luggage bag with wheels and a pull out handle, so the extra weight of the external HD and SuperDrive is no big deal, and I carry a CanoScan LiDE30 and a Canon i70 mobile printer (excellent photo quality) with battery attached, so I can set up office on a Client's kitchen table, in the back of my VW Eurovan with center table, or in the local CoCo's or McDonald's and do ANYTHING. Need a Will or Trust?

I've been wondering if my Motorola cellphone when attached by USB connector cable to the iBook would let me FAX stuff or connect to the internet for email wirelessly.

I tried the SONY Ericsson cell phone with Bluetooth, (great for iSync) which was super EXCEPT no signal reception at my home! had to take it back, sadly.

As you can tell, I'm big on portability which I never had before I bought my iBook just so I could take ALL my digital "office files" with me on vacation. Downloaded digital photos onto the iBook (900 in 2 weeks) after sightseeing each day, and when the iPhoto collection got a little BIG, I burned it all onto a CD, and gave an extra one to Grandma before I left for home. Printed some letter size photos on glossy photo paper using the Canon for very personal gifts. Sweet!

Even got a new client from NY when I answered my Phoenix AZ cellphone while driving down the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Watched a new DVD movie on the flight home since I'd seen the one being shown. I love my iBook. :)

Is an Apple book a great way of iLife or what? :D

Snowy_River

Jan 28, 2004, 02:25 AM

Originally posted by kingtj
...When it's all said and done, there's no doubt a Mac is expensive...

While I won't argue with this statement, I think that it must be taken into consideration that if you were to go to a top-of-the-line PC manufacturer and configure a PC equivalent to the G5, you'd come out about the same price. So, yes, Macs are expensive, but not unduly so. They are, for the most part, in line with the market, given what they are.

Snowy_River

Jan 28, 2004, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by pigwin32
Just chased a link from (slightly embarrassed cough) macosrumors. This guy has got some serious issues, not least of which is a fondness for Windows XP http://www.overclockers.com/tips1133/. Any chance at all this is a photoshop effort?

This is really sickening. I doubt it was PSed. I'm just ill from having read it. It's like someone cut a work of art to pieces because he liked the frame it was in, but wanted to have his own water-color in the frame, rather then the original work.

dryvlee

Jan 28, 2004, 02:50 AM

I'm sure that there are people like that who are just plain stupid or that they are comfortable lying in their own well and dare not venture outside despite what they might have heard from their friends.

Not everyone can be saved.

We try and observe 1 minute of silence for these people...

BowiPod

Jan 28, 2004, 09:48 AM

Ordered a PB 12" (UK) yesterday and have just been told it will be shipping on the 3rd February.

Coincidence? Seems like a few of you are getting 3rd Feb ship dates.

JFreak

Jan 28, 2004, 10:07 AM

it might very well be a coincideice. apple is definetely getting something from the factory ready to be delivered on that date; however, there is absolutely no way to know before it happens if the 'books are the same old version as before, or a new upgraded version.

i'd also like a G5 powerbook, but i'm not holding my breath.

spinko

Jan 28, 2004, 11:32 AM

I just wish Apple would put in more L2 and L3 cache into these Powerbooks. I was quite disapointed by the performance of my new Powerbook G4 @ 1GHz. It actually feels slower than a desktop machine running a much slower processor but with much more L2/L3 cache. I ended up selling it.

ectocooler

Jan 28, 2004, 11:55 AM

im also still at a feb 3rd ship date on my 15"

i sure as hell hope its an updated model. apple updated the ibook line about 2 weeks after i bought my last ibook and i totally got screwed out of about 300$ in price drops and also new features.

i have other horror stories associated with my ibook but lets just i could really use a treat from apple right now.

emotionelectric

Jan 28, 2004, 01:03 PM

so maybe the fact that there have been no refurbs on the apple site for at least 4 weeks in the UK indicates something?

i'm wanting a powerbook 12 with fw800, decent vid card and a 1.25Ghz chip....i'm probably dreaming

the last bit is optional tho :)

Djehuti

Jan 28, 2004, 11:47 PM

Sorry to disappoint folks, but the "I received a ship date of Feb 3, hmmm!" seems to be a red herring. I ordered two PBG4's (15" 1.25GHz) on Jan 16 (after some folks here), and was given ship dates of 1/29. (Exactly seven business days after my order date, I notice; it said "ships in 5-7 days" when I ordered.)

If Feb 3 ship dates were due to impending updates, I'd expect that mine would be delayed to that date as well. However, one of the two (the one I customized by swapping the SuperDrive out for a combo drive) shipped today. The one I customized with the 5400rpm drive is still estimated to ship tomorrow (but I doubt it will, unless all the other "delayed until Feb 3" ones do too).

In short, I'd guess that the Feb 3 shipping date some people are getting has more to do with an expected order of SuperDrive parts and/or 5400rpm HDs (the only differences between my two 'books) than with Apple holding onto orders until an update day.

(PS. I also bought an iBook about 3 weeks before they slapped G4's in 'em all. DOH!)

dryvlee

Jan 29, 2004, 02:13 AM

Coincidental or not, in Singapore, Feb 1 and 2 are public holidays. I've ordered my new 17in Powerbook since 19 Jan and reconfirm on 26 Jan but was told that it is most likely to ship on Feb 3 with likely a speed bump that's all.

ectocooler

Jan 29, 2004, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by Djehuti

If Feb 3 ship dates were due to impending updates, I'd expect that mine would be delayed to that date as well. However, one of the two (the one I customized by swapping the SuperDrive out for a combo drive) shipped today. The one I customized with the 5400rpm drive is still estimated to ship tomorrow (but I doubt it will, unless all the other "delayed until Feb 3" ones do too).

Nope, I dont have a superdrive or a 5400 hd on mine. Mine was ordered on 16th and delayed to feb3rd.

BowiPod

Jan 29, 2004, 06:42 AM

My PowerBook 12" 1GHZ shipped today (UK), so I guess the Feb 3rd was a red herring!

Djehuti

Jan 29, 2004, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by Djehuti
However, one of the two (the one I customized by swapping the SuperDrive out for a combo drive) shipped today. The one I customized with the 5400rpm drive is still estimated to ship tomorrow (but I doubt it will, unless all the other "delayed until Feb 3" ones do too).

Update: my other PB just shipped too (about 20 hours after the first one).

Mr Maui

Jan 29, 2004, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by pigwin32
Just chased a link from (slightly embarrassed cough) macosrumors. This guy has got some serious issues, not least of which is a fondness for Windows XP http://www.overclockers.com/tips1133/. Any chance at all this is a photoshop effort?

um ...

There's another whole thread on this link already here in MacRumors, Was posted two days ago and has a hundred and fifty responses already.

The link was e-mailed to other Mac sites to make more mac users aware,

see "PC'd Apple G5" under Mac Hardware/Software

Thanks, though pigwin

reason

Jan 29, 2004, 11:02 AM

This info could be totally off...........but.

I've been talking with an Apple representative through the Developer Connection for about two weeks now trying to get a defective 15" Powerbook exchanged. We finally got everyting sorted out and the new one is set to ship Feb. 5th (translation-probably Feb. 9th or later).

Originally, I asked that a new PB be sent out right away (this is normally done with the main apple store), but through the ADC the return must be received first before they can start a replacement order. OK, whatever, they finally sent the order for a new PB to be built yesterday, a week after they received mine. She volunteered (I did not ask) that last week no shippments were made because of the Chinese New Year, that the factory in Tiawan took the week off to celebrate.

I would love to see an updated PB when my 2nd one gets here but, this sounds reasonable to me especially since I didn't even ask about delays, backorders, or updates. It would explain the delays everyone has received and why some PB's have shipped this week.

reason

Bilvox

Jan 29, 2004, 01:11 PM

So I have a crap powerbook wallstreet 233, and the cd rom kranked out long time ago, so I have to keep the drive out of the dock for the mac to work well.
or pretty much work at all.
I am at the point (well far beyond it)
:-)
where I am ready to get the 15" powerbook, 80 gig, superdrive lappytop. Should I wait longer for the G5 to be put in or go ahead next week and order it. I will be using DV editing etc, photoshop, and audio recording-editing.
Since I have waited this long should I wait longer (like next fall) or go ahead???

I am intrigued by these rumors and am wondering what sort of surprises await us.
Thanks
-bv

MacRAND

Jan 29, 2004, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Bilvox
So I have a crap powerbook wallstreet 233, and the cd rom kranked out long time ago, ...
I am ready to get the 15" powerbook, 80 gig, superdrive lappytop.
Should I wait longer for the G5 to be put in or go ahead next week and order it.
I will be using DV editing etc, photoshop, and audio recording-editing.
Since I have waited this long should I wait longer (like next fall) or go ahead???
1. For DV editing and media creation, you really should seriously consider a 17" or you are going to need a very large external LCD at home.
2. You would be better off with a 7200 rpm 60GB HD (IBM/Hitachi) inside your book with an external FireWire drive to hold your bulk, than to put a slow 80GB inside.
3. We have all heard Steve Jobs assure us the G5 laptop will be available by the end of the year (?) but with the serious heat problems they have to solve, I would not hold my breath. Besides, do you really want to be an earlier adopter of the 1st issue of a laptop "prototype"? You NEED a PowerBook now, waiting will turn your hair grey. There's always another rumor or promise around the corner. Get the G4 today and make Apple convince you that they have really worked out all the problems during the year AFTER the first G5 PowerBook is released, then buy a G5. So, do you want to have a G4 15 or 17 now, or hold onto your Wallstreet for another year or so?

Do whatever you think will make you happy.

theISHkid

Jan 29, 2004, 01:57 PM

I've got something to say/ask... I'm not so sure it would be legal for apple to give people revised powerbooks like they are talking about without their consent. I know everyone would be thrilled as all get out to get a revised edition when they had ordered the regular one... but seriously... I don't think they can do that can they?
Businesses are binded by law to give their consumers exactly what they order and pay for. I don't know why anyone would, but some guy out there (probabaly the idiot that killed the g5 to build a $250 crap pc), could try to sue them for sending him something he didn't order without his consent. I doubt anyone would be that drastic about it, but you never know with the people running out their today.
I don't mean to be drastic or anything... I really hope they do get revised because I'm waiting till they do to order mine. I just don't think the delays on ordered Powerbooks are because of the new revised Powerbooks. If you remember correctly the same source as the revised Powerbook date also said later there would be a price drop too... So how would Apple deal with that? Ship revised Powerbooks out along with a $300 check? Sounds to me like it's more of a parts issue (like the upgraded 5400 hard drive). But then again maybe apple will be calling all of you on the 2nd to make sure it's ok?

MacRAND

Jan 29, 2004, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by theISHkid
I'm not so sure it would be legal for apple to give people revised powerbooks ... without their consent.
Businesses are binded by law to give their consumers exactly what they order and pay for. ... could try to sue them for sending him something he didn't order without his consent. The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) which has been adopted by most states throughout the US, handles exactly what you are concerned about.
If a Merchant cannot deliver exactly the goods as specially ordered, then it must either upgrade the order to the satisfaction of the Purchaser, or refund their money. That's the choice. Accept the upgrade or take your money back.
Since Apple has a long history of instant upgrades or promptly refunding money, what is the problem? Most people I know would be delighted with an upgrade from 1.25GHZ to 1.33GHz on a PB order, an 8x DVD burner instead of a 4x SuperDrive, or a larger or faster drive.
ALTERNATIVE: If you don't like ordering online and waiting for the shipment to arrive, go to an Apple Store or authorized dealer and pay cash for what's in the box. That way you know exactly what you are getting before you leave the retail store.

agentkow

Jan 29, 2004, 02:38 PM

I thought I knew that Apple had upgraded things in the past, so its good to hear.

Here's to hoping for upgrades to our orders-in-limbo!

MacRAND

Jan 29, 2004, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by agentkow
I thought I knew that Apple had upgraded things in the past, so its good to hear.
Here's to hoping for upgrades to our orders-in-limbo! Absolutely! I'm pretty sure that Apple started automatically inserting 4x SuperDrives into Macs when it ran out of 2x, which it probably didn't want to order anymore 2x since they were offered a good price on the newer 4x DVD burners. And, I don't remember hearing them make any particular announcement about it, they just took good care of Apple customers. Eventually, we all found out when Apple announced the availability of new 4x blank DVD media and a new lower price for 2x, and then the problems with the old 2x SuperDrives conflicting with 4x media (or something) and a firmware FIX, which Apple promptly took care of.
If Apple isn't able to "deliver" what you ordered, they will either "better" the deal or give you your money back. Makes me happy.

pigwin32

Jan 29, 2004, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Mr Maui
um ...

There's another whole thread on this link already here in MacRumors, Was posted two days ago and has a hundred and fifty responses already.

The link was e-mailed to other Mac sites to make more mac users aware,

see "PC'd Apple G5" under Mac Hardware/Software

Thanks, though pigwin
um ...

Thanks for the heads up Mr Maui, if you checked the date of my original post it was in fact also two days ago (somewhat later than the original but then I don't tend to browse that discussion group).

Thanks, though Mr Maui

Bilvox

Jan 29, 2004, 04:05 PM

Hey MacRand, I appreciate your post-reply.
You bring up these issues perfectly... I mean having a later generation (or should I say latest) PowerbookG4 as opposed to a first run g5 is a much better idea. I think IN the next week or two I will go ahead an order my g4powerbook 15. I guess after all up-ing the RAM will be more effective than anything else at this point. I mean 1.25 ghz will be such a leap from what I have now... it will be so refreshing.

so anyone have ideas on the RAM?
cause I will upgrade im sure... but should go for the 2x256 or the 1 SO-DIMM so as to have a space empty for a nice upgrade?

Thanks My mac-peeps.
-bv

p.s. and if someone ever said money can't buy you happiness they never bought a mac!

Originally posted by MacRAND
Get the G4 today and make Apple convince you that they have really worked out all the problems during the year AFTER the first G5 PowerBook is released, then buy a G5. So, do you want to have a G4 15 or 17 now, or hold onto your Wallstreet for another year or so?

Do whatever you think will make you happy.

MacRAND

Jan 29, 2004, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Bilvox
Hey MacRand, I appreciate your post-reply.
I will go ahead an order my g4powerbook 15. I guess after all up-ing the RAM will be more effective than anything else at this point.
so anyone have ideas on the RAM?
cause I will upgrade im sure... but should go for the 2x256 or the 1 SO-DIMM so as to have a space empty for a nice upgrade?
Too many people are pulling the 2x256 and that makes them so plentiful they are worthless. right now the prices suggest 2x512, because the cost of a 1GB is ugly. However, your point of saving 1 slot is well taken.

Probably with the money i'd save by not buying the 1GB chip, I'd order the PB with a slow, small, cheap HD, then immediately buy a fast 7200 rpm 60GB IBM/Hitachi for $259 and pay an Apple Auth. shop to install. Z00M! goes the rocket.

JonRaven

Jan 29, 2004, 05:13 PM

Hey there...

As usual these are just my suggestions from hours of streeful decision making and researching this upgrading subject.

Ok so...my advise is that you swap out the 2x256 chips with 2x512 meg aftermarket kingston or crucial chips. These are very easy to do yourself...trust me...have done it. The price apple is charging you to swap the 2x256 chips out for 1x512 is already the price of a 1x512 chip so what the heck is the point in getting them to do it when you can do it and then have a backupmset of 256s if need be or selling possibilities.

Next...the hard drive... do as you were thinking and get the base drive installed by apple and take the money you saved on not getting the standard or the upgrade from apple and buy yourself a 7200 fast drive and swap the slow one out and then put the slow on in a pocket usb/firewire case for file backup, mp3 storage or watever.

This is a pretty cheap way of getting the fastest machine out there and without having to pay apple to upgrade to minimal parts like the 5400 rpm instead of the 7200.

Just my thoughts.

cheers.

pigwin32

Jan 29, 2004, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by JonRaven

Next...the hard drive... do as you were thinking and get the base drive installed by apple and take the money you saved on not getting the standard or the upgrade from apple and buy yourself a 7200 fast drive and swap the slow one out and then put the slow on in a pocket usb/firewire case for file backup, mp3 storage or watever.

It's a great idea but don't try to install the drive yourself unless you want to void your warranty. The 7200 is a great drive and probably cheaper to source yourself than through Apple but ask your local Apple repair shop what it would cost to get them to install the drive.

MacRAND

Jan 29, 2004, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by pigwin32
It's a great idea but don't try to install the drive yourself unless you want to void your warranty. The 7200 is a great drive and probably cheaper to source yourself than through Apple but ask your local Apple repair shop what it would cost to get them to install the drive.
"order the PB with a slow, small, cheap HD, then immediately buy
(from www.otherworldcomputing.com) a fast
7200 rpm 60GB IBM/Hitachi for $259 http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=5930&Item=HIT08K0939 and
pay an Apple Auth. shop to install", or like pigwin32 says,
if you do it yourself, you will "void your warranty".

NOTE: there are undoubtedly many other sources for the HD besides OWC, but it was simply the easiest supplier for me to find when I did a quick Search.

JonRaven

Jan 29, 2004, 08:54 PM

Please dont think I meant to put the drive in yourself... That would be a big big no no. I was just saying it was the best way to upgrade the system...and quite cheap really if I must say so myself. Just make sure you get a authorized rep to install it for you.

chheers

woolf

Jan 29, 2004, 09:38 PM

no,no,no... there isn't going to be any updates til' later this year for those. it seems to me people on this site get all hyped up about something (ex. the ibox) then it never happens. I understand its not all going to happen but to a certain point you need to think logically. has apple ever released new products right around the super bowl? why would they do it now? apple never blows us away with lots of products in this short amount of time. it has only been a few weeks since macworld. i bet you nothing apple wont release a thing, but they may update their itms for the give away. the marketing strategie for apple is really predictable. apple always will hype stuff up before its released. apple only announces major new products twice a year. on one hand i like being able to enjoy my imac while its still the most recent , but on the other it seems apple is behind in releases compared to pc's. well maybe i'm just talking outa my az but you can be the one to decide. thats my story and im stickin to it!

dryvlee

Jan 29, 2004, 09:49 PM

Apple sometimes do not announce minor hardware upgrades when available despite it was a big Mac event (happened last year but could not remember exact event) maybe reason being other items are more crucial.

By the way, did anybody order a Powerbook the past week, other than 12 in model, and got it before the 3 Feb?

agentkow

Jan 29, 2004, 09:57 PM

Well my order [Powerbook 15" Superdrive ordered 2 weeks ago] status just changed to shipped, although I can't quite track it just yet. The Powerbook itself says "Open" still but the entire order title just changed.

Seems that the alleged "Manufacturing Delay" was in actual fact a "Manufacturing Delay".

As much as this is a let down after following these rumours for so long, I'm still completely excited about having a Superdrive finally, the new iLife, backlit keyboard, and just a beautiful Powerbook in the first place.

Canuck

Jan 29, 2004, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by CheekyGit
I'll wait for the PB G5.

What are you goint to use it for; a camping stove?
The heat sink will be bigger than the screen.

pigwin32

Jan 29, 2004, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Canuck
What are you goint to use it for; a camping stove?
The heat sink will be bigger than the screen.
Blah blah blah, is this a troll?

From The Register (http://theregister.co.uk/content/39/35057.html) and previously quoted on macrumors "The 970FX, meanwhile, consumes a mere 12.3W at 1.4GHz, paving the way for PowerBook G5s. That figure is comparable to the 7.5W a 1GHz consumption of the G4-class Motorola MPC7447 that drives the current PowerBook G4s. The 970FX's SpeedStep-style PowerTune technology will help too."

MacRAND

Jan 30, 2004, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by JonRaven swap out the 2x256 chips with 2x512 meg aftermarket kingston or crucial chips. These are very easy to do yourself...
Next...the hard drive... do as you were thinking and get the base drive installed by apple and ... buy yourself a 7200 fast drive and swap the slow one out ..
Just my thoughts.Jon, your advice on the RAM and HD was solid as usual, and our adding the Warning about being sure to have Apple put in the new HD to avoid VOIDING the Warranty was just to cover your back, and make sure none of us recommends that they do something themselves if it could get them in trouble. MacBuddies, right?
Again, valuable advice Jon. ;)

Rower_CPU

Jan 30, 2004, 01:24 AM

I'm surprised Apple took the hard drive off the Customer Installable Parts list. I upgraded my original 400MHz PBG4 back in the day using the excellent step-by-step from the CIP page (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=26246) and all TiBooks were upgradeable like that.

I guess the new Alu layout makes it tougher to access the HD.

Snowy_River

Jan 30, 2004, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by theISHkid
I've got something to say/ask... I'm not so sure it would be legal for apple to give people revised powerbooks like they are talking about without their consent. ...

Typically, after Apple has released an update, they contact customers who have outstanding orders and ask them if they want the order as it was originally placed at a lower price, or the new upgraded product at the original price. Also, with regards to the prospect of new PBs being lower in price, they wouldn't have to send anyone a check as they don't actually charge you anything until they ship your order. So, if the price was lowered, they'd simply charge you less when they shipped your order.

Snowy_River

Jan 30, 2004, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by JonRaven
Please dont think I meant to put the drive in yourself... That would be a big big no no. I was just saying it was the best way to upgrade the system...and quite cheap really if I must say so myself. Just make sure you get a authorized rep to install it for you.

chheers

This is something that I find mildly irritating. I'm quite accomplished at doing things like this, and if it weren't for the warranty issue, I'd install my own hard drive in a heart beat. I've installed a new hard drive in my old PB3400. In fact, I've completely dismantled that machine down to bear parts, and put it back together again. It's not that hard to do...

Snowy_River

Jan 30, 2004, 02:45 AM

Does anyone know anything about the Hitachi/IBM TravelStar 80GB 5400RPM drives (http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=6337&Item=HIT08K0639)?

This is the first 80GB drive that I've seen for the PowerBooks. Some time back I decided that I wouldn't upgrade my 12" until I could double its 40GB drive. Is this a good option?

john123

Jan 30, 2004, 02:50 AM

MacRAND

Jan 30, 2004, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Does anyone know anything about the Hitachi/IBM TravelStar 80GB 5400RPM drives (http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Item.cfm?ID=6337&Item=HIT08K0639)?

This is the first 80GB drive that I've seen for the PowerBooks. Some time back I decided that I wouldn't upgrade my 12" until I could double its 40GB drive. Is this a good option? SnowyRiver, it's a solid, reasonably quiet drive, but I still prefer the smaller but FASTER
Hitachi/IBM TravelStar 60GB 7200 rpm drive for $259
http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_I...Item=HIT08K0939
especially for DV editing/rendering/encoding with FinalCut Pro4.
Unfortunately, I have yet to see a 7200 rpm drive with 80GB for a laptop.

theISHkid

Jan 30, 2004, 04:18 AM

Just kinda curious who actually thinks this rumor will come true? New Powerbooks on the 2nd/3rd? I just switch over to Apple about a year ago so I may be wrong but I seem to notice that Apple doesn't tend to release or do more then one thing at a time (aside from the big events). Does anyone think Apple would release updates to the books or the towers alongside the launch of the iTunes giveaway? Just looking for some opinions... I want to buy a new Powerbook and I don't mind waiting for a revision since I'm not in any hurry.

Also another question... Relistically, what is the earliest a G5 could be put into a Powerbook? I've heard from most people that the new g5's (the ones in the xserves) are still running too hot and they are too big and blah blah blah we've all heard it. But then I talked to a few other people that make very good points that the xserve processors don't put out much heat or power consumption if you turn them down to say a 1.4 ghz. This guy made a good argument for a G5 in March. So sorry for beating a dead horse but just kinda curious what everyone thinks?

dryvlee

Jan 30, 2004, 04:28 AM

Since you are not in a hurry, I suggest you wait until you really need to ..

For me, I am getting a new Powerbook with or without an upgrade but in Singapore, I get price protection for 60 days. My 1st generation Tibook recently fell and broke its hinge and servicing would require to replace the LCD and hence, I decided to get a new 17-in Albook.

I would like to have a new Powerbook last week or this week but the local supplier is not shipping until Feb 3.

Djehuti

Jan 30, 2004, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by dryvlee
By the way, did anybody order a Powerbook the past week, other than 12 in model, and got it before the 3 Feb?

My wife's 15" arrived about half an hour ago (mine will probably arrive on Monday). These were ordered on the 16th.

Hers arrived without iLife '04, btw, which I found mildly annoying.

pjkelnhofer

Jan 30, 2004, 10:43 AM

It just occured to me for the first time that it would make sense for Apple to come out with new software after the Pepsi promotion starts.
Think about it, the ads and the bottle caps could lead to hundreds of thousands of first time visitors to Apple.com.
Why not wait and have the latest and greatest Apple has to offer until they start coming.

Mr.kr

Jan 30, 2004, 10:43 AM

People, I'm new to the community, I ain't been around but a few weeks. The constant flow of rumors of hardware (powerbooks specifically) updates and price drops is a bit unexpected and overwhelming. Yes I know it's a rumor site, but I just didn't expect there too be so many (that didn't/haven't been true) in such a short amount of time. But I'm not complaining, just looking for info (and still holding out hope for Feb 2/3).

Question number one: Is this how it always is around the Mac rumor mill? Every week or few days brings another "expect big things tomorrow or the next day, etc". Again, I'm not complaining, I'm just trying to get a feel for a rumors to fact ratio, which ain't been so good so far ;-)

Question number two: Since I'm in the market for a powerbook I'm interested to know what was the "feel" before the last round of powerbook updates? I wasn't "around" for that so I don't know. Were there similar, frequent rumors flying every few days or did they just pop up on Apple's website one day? Macrumor.com's buyer's guide for powerbooks says "Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle". Was this what it said last time?

Please be aware that I'm not asking for your speculation on when updates are coming (though feel free), no one can know that for sure, just what it was like before updates last time.

TIA,

--
Kary Rogers
My Apple Store experience (http://www.kmrogers.net/mt/archives/000003.html)

dryvlee

Jan 30, 2004, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Djehuti
My wife's 15" arrived about half an hour ago (mine will probably arrive on Monday). These were ordered on the 16th.

Hers arrived without iLife '04, btw, which I found mildly annoying.

I find the above rather suspicious because it should have arrived with the latest iLife. I will let you all know when my 17-in Powerbook arrive, especially the specs..

pjkelnhofer

Jan 30, 2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Djehuti
My wife's 15" arrived about half an hour ago (mine will probably arrive on Monday). These were ordered on the 16th.

Hers arrived without iLife '04, btw, which I found mildly annoying.

I would think you should call Apple. Anything ordered after 1/6 should have shipped with the latest version.

Unless, it was a refurb. I don't think those rules apply.

MacRAND

Jan 30, 2004, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by theISHkid
Does anyone think Apple would release updates to the books or the towers alongside the launch of the iTunes giveaway?
What is the earliest a G5 could be put into a Powerbook? ... in March. This is Crystal Ball stuff you are asking.

Sometimes we get rumors based on pretty good information about some manufacture, which Apple is known to use to produce iBooks or PowerBooks or towers, getting a block of 10,000 or 20,000 G5 chips, which is enough for a manufacturing "run" of something, but then a rumor comes in about a large shipment of unusually high resolution LCDs to that manufacturer, so several rumors are pasted together and we try to come up with a plausible product and estimated completion date based on history.

My feeling is that Apple tries very hard to time a public release of product until
1. it actually has some product in warehouse to distribute (or it's in their stores ready for sale, like a new OS X)
2. a major event (if close enough) including a Keynote address (pure drama & free advertising) by Steve Jobs, so the item can be properly introduced to the public, thereby stirring up desire and sales
3. it is simply ready to be released and is unceremoniously, almost.

Until Apple licks the "heat" problem so the G5 books won't come back to AppleCare within a week after delivery, there will be no manufacturing run and thus NO release. There is the self imposed pressure of an end of 2004, or early 2005 and we WILL have the problems licked GOAL set by Jobs (as a leader), but gains in technology are the ultimate limit. Wishing and doing are sometimes opposed. No one knows how Apple is "doing" right now, so it's mainly a lot of "wishing" for a G5 PowerBook that's going on.

Releasing a new iTunes Music Giveaway should really have nothing to do with a hardware release. Neither Apple nor any other computer manufacturer wants to hold millions of dollars of product in their warehouse any longer than necessary because that costs money and loses income. Besides, the Tunes giveaway is a Pepsi thing, Apple is only the supplier of the means.

When is there going to be a G5 book, no one knows. I'm personally not betting on the end of this year, so I'd be shocked if there was a March 2004 release. And, I'm not going to be a Guinea Pig as an early adopter for some pretty radical new technology that's got to go into any new G5 PowerBook. Let the tech and the cost stew a bit in the market place before jumping in with blind faith and $3000. :cool:

agentkow

Jan 30, 2004, 01:16 PM

My 15" Powerbook will now officially arrive on Monday.

Does anyone know what this last spec means from my order page:

PBG4 15.2/1.25GHZ/1024/80/SD/AP/BL/LL

I know it was a 15.2" screen, is 1.25 Gigahertz, has 2 512 Megahertz RAM dudes, an 80 gig hard drive, a SuperDrive, Airport, and a backlit keyboard, but whats the "LL"?

Thanks in advance, everyone here is so darn helpful.

Snowy_River

Jan 30, 2004, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by theISHkid
Just kinda curious who actually thinks this rumor will come true? New Powerbooks on the 2nd/3rd? I just switch over to Apple about a year ago so I may be wrong but I seem to notice that Apple doesn't tend to release or do more then one thing at a time (aside from the big events). Does anyone think Apple would release updates to the books or the towers alongside the launch of the iTunes giveaway? Just looking for some opinions... I want to buy a new Powerbook and I don't mind waiting for a revision since I'm not in any hurry.

I think that it's fairly certain that something is coming. Usually the best way to get a ball park estimate of when updates are coming is to look at the timeline. It's now been long enough that we can be fairly certain that an update is coming "soon". The real question is, what is "soon". It could be a few days, or it could be a few months. The deciding factor would be what Apple can pull off, and what chips are available from Moto and/or IBM.

Also another question... Relistically, what is the earliest a G5 could be put into a Powerbook? I've heard from most people that the new g5's (the ones in the xserves) are still running too hot and they are too big and blah blah blah we've all heard it. But then I talked to a few other people that make very good points that the xserve processors don't put out much heat or power consumption if you turn them down to say a 1.4 ghz. This guy made a good argument for a G5 in March. So sorry for beating a dead horse but just kinda curious what everyone thinks?

I think that the real answer is that no one really knows. We don't have all of the information about all of the G5 and the complete chipset that Apple has put together for it. While a lot is known about the processor and chipset in the PM G5, but the 970FX is much more of a mystery, and we don't know if Apple has a completely different chipset already developed that would keep things cooler.

So, as I said, I think that the real answer is that no one, no matter how much they'd like to claim the contrary (unless they're willing to admit to working in an Apple R&D lab), really knows.