Adobe Creative Suite 4 (CS4) Only a Minor Update?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AppleInsider details (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/09/17/adobe_creative_suite_4_details_emerge.html) some of the upcoming changes in Adobe Creative Suite 4 which is said to be shipping next month. According to individuals who have seen private demos of the new applications, the updates are said to be "minor":People privy to private demonstrations of Creative Suite 4 say the update will generally be minor, with only a few new features tacked on to each application. "The lack of compelling new features has been the discussion among many employees and customers that are testing the software," one of those people said, "with many relating CS4 to a maintenance release rather than a complete new version." Photoshop CS4 will see interface updates (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/21/adobe-photoshop-cs4-interface-and-screenshots/) that we have previously detailed and also gain a new 3D feature which allows 3D objects to be imported as wireframes. Additional features include a Flash services panel, natural canvas rotation, content aware image resizing and 64-bit support for Windows users.

Other features for CS4 listed include:

- InDesign CS4 will get a new Flash export option
- Flash CS4: new timeline called Motion Editor, object-based motion tween model
- Screen-sharing collaboration
- Kuler (color creation and sharing) and Adobe Drive (filesharing) support

Adobe is expected (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/02/adobe-to-unveil-creative-suite-4-on-september-23rd/) to officially announce CS4 on September 23rd.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/17/adobe-creative-suite-4-cs4-only-a-minor-update/)

[dllavaneras]

I certainly hope it'll be like Snow Leopard is to Leopard. Make it faster and stop bloating it.

[pismodude2]

What?!! The E-Mail they sent me would suggest otherwise...

[Mykbibby]

I sure hope its not! Give me features! Features! Features!

AHHHHHH!!!!

[bradlauster]

Hogwash. I've been using Fireworks CS4 (beta) for several months now and it's a *huge* improvement over the CS3 version.

The beta and more info about the CS4 version is here:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/fireworkscs4/

[jb3designs]

I knew it was bad when Adobe bought Macromedia. There's not much innovation left. Adobe is coasting just like Microsoft. I don't even have much hope for CS5 much less CS4. We need a real competitor.

[madrag]

I hope the new interface in PS is good enough for an update...
I'm anxious to see flash CS4 :)

[dllavaneras]

I sure hope its not! Give me features! Features! Features!

Hehe, I envy you then. You manage to use all of the features in CS3 and still want more? That's a power user right there!

[Col127]

heh, now i won't feel bad for not upgrading. :)

[H. Flower]

I have to disagree.

From what I've seen, this update going to be huge......particularly After Effects and Flash.

And hopefully they've converted Dreamweaver's awful Macromedia interface to Adobe's.

[MadGoat]

The lack of 64-bit support on the Mac platform has me worried, since Photoshop was always the product to have for Mac OS.

Looks like Mac OS is starting to come second to windows now in the Adobe world.

[H. Flower]

The lack of 64-bit support on the Mac platform has me worried, since Photoshop was always the product to have for Mac OS.

Looks like Mac OS is starting to come second to windows now in the Adobe world.

Not necessarily.

Apple is making Adobe rewrite Photoshop's code in Cocoa, and rightly so.

I'm bummed it won't be 64 bit, too, but I'd rather wait for them to get it right.

[MacAppeal]

Looks like some of the new CS4 products are popping up at resellers:

ProVantage
Adobe Premiere Pro CS4-4 Macintosh DVD (http://www.provantage.com/adobe-65020729~7EMR9052.htm)

Premiere Pro CS4-4 Macintosh Upgrade DVD (http://www.provantage.com/adobe-65020688~7EMR9054.htm)

Amazon
Adobe InDesign CS4 Upsell from Pagemaker [Mac] (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EUIYLM)

Adobe Photoshop 11 CS4 Extended Upsell From Photoshop Elements - Macintosh (http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Photoshop-Extended-Upsell-Elements/dp/B001G457N4)

Adobe Creative Suite 4 Web Standard Upsell (From Studio) - Macintosh (http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Creative-Standard-Upsell-Studio/dp/B001G41Q48)

Adobe Photoshop 11 CS4 Extended Upgrade (From Photoshop CS1-3) - Macintosh (http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Photoshop-Extended-Upgrade-CS1-3/dp/B001G457NO)

[macphisto]

I hope upgrade cost isn't as much as normal if this is only a minor release. If so I will definitely be skipping this version.

[amac4me]

Minor versus Major debate. We'll just have to wait until it's released.

Why doesn't Apple just buy Adobe and integrate the Apps into Mac OS X?

[edenwaith]

I certainly hope it'll be like Snow Leopard is to Leopard. Make it faster and stop bloating it.

I agree. Considering some of the discussions at DearAdobe.com and John Nack's blog, there are some people who want some of the fat cut off to make the Adobe products slimmer and quicker.

It seemed to take forever for CS3 to come out, but now with the announcement for CS4 just around the corner, it barely seems any time has passed since CS3 was released last year. It just seems far too soon, and I'm not overly optimistic that they have really added much value to all of the products. I imagine they have spent the past 18 months cleaning things up and putting out what they wish CS3 could have been (but no one would have wanted to wait another 18 months for Intel-native Adobe products). However, with their decision to bundle so many applications, this is forcing them to "update" each of their applications, even if the update really isn't that significant, sort of how Apple keeps updating their iLife products with minor improvements.

[TheCrudMan]

Any news on After Effects? That's the only one I really really care about. I really wish they'd make things in it a little easier (free transforms, aspect preserving scaling like in photoshop) etc. I personally think its probably the most powerful tool in the whole set when it comes to content creation. (well obviously comparing apples and oranges but still,) its a great tool.

[decimortis]

It seemed to take forever for CS3 to come out, but now with the announcement for CS4 just around the corner, it barely seems any time has passed since CS3 was released last year. It just seems far too soon...

The sooner the better. Bring on 64-bit CS5! :D

[coreyalan1990]

It already is feature filled... Just making the interface better and more reliability is more than enough for me!

[Mac 13]

I'm wondering since CS4 is just for windozzzze users first, what is scott kelby going to use? A Macbook running windozzzze or a PC with vista 64 bit?:eek:

[orbital]

Having worked with Flash CS4 I have to say that the updates coming down are nothing short of UI mind blowing. First they totally revamped their time line control as mentioned, the fact that all objects move on a visible bezier path, similar to AE and the whole bone parenting system that they have implemented is nothing short of ground breaking for animation. I also used it on a MAC so the windows only CS4 is total BS.

[stephenstudios]

Ok, being an actual Flash CS4 BETA tester, I can rule out all this bull about a "minor" update. Flash CS4's motion editor is a great tool but it's NOT the only update and isn't what I would consider the best upgrade although its great. There are great motion path features similar to AE where you can see the line of motion as well as dragging and dropping into other motions, preset animation features, 3D transform, IK, a kick ass new text editor with a ton of features, new types of tweens, overall new UI which feels great! Drawing in the program has additionally been improved and moving objects around the screen feels much smoother and natural.

So...there are a few MINOR updates for you MacRumors.

[Anuba]

Having worked with Flash CS4 I have to say that the updates coming down are nothing short of UI mind blowing. First they totally revamped their time line control as mentioned, the fact that all objects move on a visible bezier path, similar to AE and the whole bone parenting system that they have implemented is nothing short of ground breaking for animation. I also used it on a MAC so the windows only CS4 is total BS.
Yeah, that's what I thought when I spotted this headline... the Flash demo I saw was certainly no "minor update", I mean they've changed the way the timeline works and everything... no more keyframes etc.

Of course, if you're only interested in Photoshop and Illustrator, I can see how those may not be all that mindblowing, those apps are up to version numbers XX.X...

[TBDNET]

I'm wondering since CS4 is just for windozzzze users, what is scott kelby going to use? A Macbook running windozzzze or a PC with vista 64 bit?:eek:

Photoshop CS4 is going to be on Mac OS and Windows. Most current Mac CS3 users will have some adjusting to do with the new interface. For instance the change in the Keyboard shortcuts especially in the channels threw me for about a week. and if you are a used to having multiple images in multiple windows it will definitely take some getting used to having to "float all windows" But the biggest the boost in speed will far out weigh the learning curve. It will be well worth the cost to upgrade too.

[MacTravelerBoi]

Having used a wide variety of Adobe products for many years now, I've never found it necessary to purchase every new upgrade once I've signed on to one of their product lines.

Unless it's something truly new or major I usually skip every other upgrade. (There have been a few rare times when I've even skipped 2 successive upgrades). I've never had any problems with that strategy and it's saved me and my clients a little $.

[nick9191]

I'm wondering since CS4 is just for windozzzze users, what is scott kelby going to use? A Macbook running windozzzze or a PC with vista 64 bit?:eek:

Err no its not. Why would we be talking about it if it was a Windows app.

[bdkennedy1]

I thought CS4 was going to be much faster than CS3 because it's supposed to offload most of the processing to the graphics card. This would be a major feature.

[CWallace]

If it is a "maintenance release", I hope we see a reduced upgrade price.

[kbmb]

If it is a "maintenance release", I hope we see a reduced upgrade price.

Yeah right! :rolleyes:

-Kevin

[stephenstudios]

I thought CS4 was going to be much faster than CS3 because it's supposed to offload most of the processing to the graphics card. This would be a major feature.

When I beta tested Flash CS4, it ran much faster than Flash CS3.

[TBDNET]

When I beta tested Flash CS4, it ran much faster than Flash CS3.

Ditto Photoshop...

[csketch7]

as long as i get a new interface i will upgrade

[happydude]

i wonder what size of a fortune they'll charge for this minor update?

[csketch7]

heh, now i won't feel bad for not upgrading. :)

psssst download a trial when it comes out and download a crack just for a new interface

[csketch7]

Any news on After Effects? That's the only one I really really care about. I really wish they'd make things in it a little easier (free transforms, aspect preserving scaling like in photoshop) etc. I personally think its probably the most powerful tool in the whole set when it comes to content creation. (well obviously comparing apples and oranges but still,) its a great tool.
dude use final cut studio and the adobe design apps thats what i do so much better

[morespce54]

...Looks like Mac OS is starting to come second to windows now in the Adobe world.

Well my friend, it has been this way since a while now... Actually, pretty much since Adobe bought MM... Look how long it was before they released a Mac version of CS...

[morespce54]

...I'd rather wait for them to get it right.

LOL!!!! Now that's ironic...



(Sorry, couldn't resist! :o;))

[Manatee]

I use all the CS3 Design Premium apps, but most of them are overkill for me -- so it's hard for me to think of much I'd even want in the next version. The only app I use a lot is Dreamweaver, and I welcome the new interface. With the use of various plug-ins, it meets my functional needs very well. The only problem I've had with CS3 is flaky server connectivity.

I'll probably get the CS4 Design Premium upgrade just to stay current with the latest versions of the tools, even if I don't really need the added functionality to do my work.

One thing I'd _really_ like to see is a combination of Flex Builder and Dreamweaver, so I could have the best of server and client tools in one IDE.

[eyehop]

Unless they have made big improvements since the beta release, Dreamweaver CS4 is barely usable. The buttons are unresponsive half the time. It won't let go of the server connection, and ties you down from doing further work. I'm very close to moving over to Coda...

[Darkroom]

as a flash developer Im rather excited about Flash CS4.

[swingerofbirch]

I haven't been able to think of anything for my birthday, and I miss making web-sites like I used to in high school (used Photoshop and Golive 4 and 5).

My parents want to get me something, and I thought about telling them about CS 4 Web Premium. I think that the programs have gotten much more powerful and complicated, and so my question is where have you all learned how to use Creative Suite?

I learned Photoshop and GoLive myself, but I didn't do as much as I could have with the programs I'm sure. I'm not sure if the included manual is enough. My community college has a Web Design course, but I don't know what software they use.

[Lesser Evets]

I'll update if it is $100 or less. Sounds like a pale revision. If this is another $299 update they will have to wait until the next version before I buy.

[Sprocket64]

I have been using Photoshop and Illustrator CS4 and they are not minor updates. They also launch very quickly.

[Mr Fusion]

If it's a "minor" update, call is CS3.1 not CS4. Duh. :rolleyes:

[chmilar]

Adobe will get my money when Photoshop is 64-bits on OS X. Until then, I'll stick with CS2.

[jpsimon]

The people saying there are only "minor" updates are idiots. I use the PS CS4 beta and it is a huge update, a huge very WELCOME update. Many of the new features have long been asked for.. i can't wait for the final version!!!

[Brien]

Minor or not, I've seen Flash CS4 and the new things in that alone are worth the update. It's got the AE interface (finally!).

[Raymie]

One of the features that was listed is enough for a lawsuit.

It's an integration feature, I'll tell you that much.

[The Tall One]

I feel like CS3 just came out. Am I just getting old and time is going faster?

[kbmb]

Anybody know if CS4 will fix the mess CS3 has with Spaces?

-Kevin

[dfs]

I can't speak about the other products in the CS line, but I've been using the Dreamweaver CS4 beta for a couple of months, and I have to agree that it only can described as a maintenance upgrade. What bothers me is Adobe's severe ethics problem. CS3 is very buggy, CS4 does manage to squash some (although not all) of these. So it lookslike Adobe has been aware of these problems and has (after eighteen months) taken steps to fix them. As an end user, I assume that the cost of maintenance upgrades is rolled into the purchase price of the software I purchase, so that I have a right to expect the manufacturer to exercise "due diligence" in squashing bugs promptly with one or more maintenance upgrades. But Adobe has never -- repeat, never -- issued any maintenance upgrade for Dreamweaver CS3, essentially they are using the addition of a small number of features of questionable value as a pretext for charging a hefty sum of money for an incredibly belated one. I hope their customer base can collectively let them know that this is an unacceptable business practice.

[riversky]

At least in Beta form it is MUCH faster. UI changes and app flow are drastically improved. I wouldn't call this a minor update, yet I not a radical one either.

[kbmb]

I can't speak about the other products in the CS line, but I've been using the Dreamweaver CS4 beta for a couple of months, and I have to agree that it only can described as a maintenance upgrade. What bothers me is Adobe's severe ethics problem. CS3 is very buggy, CS4 does manage to squash some (although not all) of these. So it lookslike Adobe has been aware of these problems and has (after eighteen months) taken steps to fix them. As an end user, I assume that the cost of maintenance upgrades is rolled into the purchase price of the software I purchase, so that I have a right to expect the manufacturer to exercise "due diligence" in squashing bugs promptly with one or more maintenance upgrades. But Adobe has never -- repeat, never -- issued any maintenance upgrade for Dreamweaver CS3, essentially they are using the addition of a small number of features of questionable value as a pretext for charging a hefty sum of money for an incredibly belated one. I hope their customer base can collectively let them know that this is an unacceptable business practice.

Exactly. I would have expected more patches and fixes in 18 months from Adobe for CS3.

I don't NEED new features, however, I feel I need some bug fixes. Is the only way I'm going to get these is to PAY to upgrade?

-Kevin

[drtyrell]

Gee, hasn't this been the last several updates? I've been using the same features since the late 90s to make all my designs for web and video games. Syd Mead uses Photoshop 7!

[Trajectory]

I'll take the word of those who've actually used beta versions of CS4.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if Adobe tried to pass off CS4 as a major upgrade when it's mostly bug fixes and some new interface doo-dads. They've tried that in the past a few times.

[Anuba]

I can't speak about the other products in the CS line, but I've been using the Dreamweaver CS4 beta for a couple of months, and I have to agree that it only can described as a maintenance upgrade. What bothers me is Adobe's severe ethics problem. CS3 is very buggy, CS4 does manage to squash some (although not all) of these. So it lookslike Adobe has been aware of these problems and has (after eighteen months) taken steps to fix them. As an end user, I assume that the cost of maintenance upgrades is rolled into the purchase price of the software I purchase, so that I have a right to expect the manufacturer to exercise "due diligence" in squashing bugs promptly with one or more maintenance upgrades. But Adobe has never -- repeat, never -- issued any maintenance upgrade for Dreamweaver CS3, essentially they are using the addition of a small number of features of questionable value as a pretext for charging a hefty sum of money for an incredibly belated one. I hope their customer base can collectively let them know that this is an unacceptable business practice.
It seems different from team to team. A few years after the acquisition there's still a lot of Macromedia culture baked into Dreamweaver, Flash and Fireworks, and those guys just never cared about fixing bugs, particularly the Flash and Dreamweaver guys. The Flash guys just keep going from version to version without looking back, as the bugs keep piling up. After each major upgrade, at most you'll get one maintenance update, but only if the initial release is borderline unusable.

[behrmon]

I'd just like to see Acrobat stop bouncing in the dock when it gets lonely.:D

Also, enough web stuff already!:eek: more prepress & Freehand integration in Illustrator please. How about some better support for spot channel DCS 2 files within Illustrator as well.

Oh and release my base object when I set an offset path please, oh & let me choose the default pdf format please, Oh and...... :D

[zim]

Regardless of the update being minor or major, I just got back from a big meeting at my University... the overall feeling was that we are tried of the year to year releases and are now going to skip every other release. The decision was also based on a survey of several studios whom all reported that economically it wasn't smart for them to be doing the year to year either. I am somewhat sad by this since we have managed to be current with everything since the beginning of the program, which is long before my entrance. Adobe needs to slow down.

[Bubba Satori]

Why doesn't Apple just buy Adobe and integrate the Apps into Mac OS X?

Please step away from the bong. Everything will be ok. :D

[SwiftLives]

So. The most important question about whether or not CS4 will be worth it has yet to be asked...

Will we get better app icons?
:D

[Kwill]

Forget about another bloatware release. Adobe needs to let features grow naturally from code optimization and UI homogenization. Below are just a few examples.


Can the Snapshots feature (in Photoshop) be incorporated into ID and AI?
InDesign performs automatic backups of open windows (thankfully) so when it crashes (as is often the case), most changes are restored. Why can't AI do the same? Fortunately, PS is more stable.
Layer options within AI and ID are similar but don't need to differ.
Can New Document dialogs of AI and ID be made more alike?
Why do we have Object Styles in ID but Graphic Styles in AI?
Why are Paragraph Styles MIA from AI?
Adobe dropped the development ball on AI charts long ago. Why can't we control the size of markers? Why must we fight with so many dialog boxes without even a preview to make adjustments?
Shouldn't we be able to make charts within ID or at least edit Illustrator charts w/o Smart Objects?
Why do CS3 applications handle transparency within TIFFs differently?
How come AI swatches are so lame in comparison with ID?
Why didn't AI adopt the superior FH text on a path code, where the actual baseline and serifs follow the path?
Where is the ability to save gradient angles within styles?

Adobe has far too much to do without releasing a token version upgrade with a few features while overlooking the glaring omissions.

[edenwaith]

So. The most important question about whether or not CS4 will be worth it has yet to be asked...

Will we get better app icons?
:D

Heh. I've been wondering that since Adobe CS came out. I was accustomed to the Photoshop and Illustrator icons, and then they started switching the icons, which I feel could have been much better and more representative of what the application does. How does a butterfly signify a page layout application?

I'm not a big fan of the CS3 style of icons, but at least they are a little easier to figure out what they mean. How many people got confused whether Photoshop was one or two feathers, where Image Ready was the other...

[Great Dave]

I'm wondering since CS4 is just for windozzzze users first, what is scott kelby going to use? A Macbook running windozzzze or a PC with vista 64 bit?:eek:

I don't know about Scott Kelby, but I do know about Bert Monroy!

I was at a recent NAPP seminar, when Bert laid the bomb. He admitted to a ton of people that he was doing his newest painting - more insane than Damien - on Windows using CS4. He said that the speed improvements were too great not to switch. And he really emphasized the speed improvements. He said when CS5 comes out he hopes to switch back.

But, I wish you could have been there when he said that he has switched to Windows. Seriously, the place was leveled. He said it and just about the whole audience gasped and then everyone was talking amongst their groups about it.

Crazy!

[dfs]

It seems different from team to team. A few years after the acquisition there's still a lot of Macromedia culture baked into Dreamweaver, Flash and Fireworks, and those guys just never cared about fixing bugs, particularly the Flash and Dreamweaver guys. The Flash guys just keep going from version to version without looking back, as the bugs keep piling up. After each major upgrade, at most you'll get one maintenance update, but only if the initial release is borderline unusable.

Gotta disagree. At least in the case of Dreamweaver, Macromedia did get out maintenance upgrades. Not lots, but some. This no-upgrade thing can't be written off as a holdover from Macromedia's corporate culture, it's a new Adobe thing.

[hawken king]

Why doesn't Apple just buy Adobe and integrate the Apps into Mac OS X?

a dream scenario. If they do it, windows would be busted.

So, user continually complain about bloat and featureless features. What we really want is stability and speed, universal keyboard commands and interface improvements.

Make your voice heard:

http://www.dearadobe.com

[Woien]

As I was talking to some devlopers in Amsterdam in the weekend and got a dome of the new Adobe Premiere Cs4, the most usefull upgrade is for me the improved Adobe Media Encoder as for now its implemented in Adobe, but in CS4 it will be used "outside" the program.
So you can still work in premiere when running media encoder...very nice Adobe

[mum]

You can spot amateurs who use less than 5% of the features of the CS apps from this whining that occurs every time Adobe releases a new version of its Creative Suite. They'd actually be happy if only the UI theme was changed every time.

[toontra]

I thought CS4 was going to be much faster than CS3 because it's supposed to offload most of the processing to the graphics card. This would be a major feature.

Is this a good move? The graphics chip in my rev.2 Macbook can barely cope with viewing a Facebook clip without the fans blasting off!

[macnews]

From what I have heard, Flash is a major improvement (as others have mentioned) but the rest is minor updates. InDesign, Acrobat, Premier, Dreamweaver, Illustrator and Photoshop all get some additions, tweaks, speed but by and large no major reason to switch from CS3 to CS4 considering CS4 isn't 64 bit and there are questions about snow leopard.

Frankly, I'm disappointed Adobe did this update so quickly after CS3 and wonder if they are pushing it out before snow leopard JUST IN CASE there are compatibility issues which would make CS4 come out more than 24 months after CS3. This could be a cash flow move by Adobe rather than a "hey we got some great new features".

*Note* my info is based on people I know who have beta tested CS4 versions, not my own personal use.

[SimonMW]

From the look of things the PS CS$, I mean CS4 upgrade is going to cost $349. Thats an obscene amount of money.

Can this new version of Photoshop even save PNG files at a sensible size? Or save PNG files as indexed 8-bit colour with alpha transparency like Fireworks can?

Adobe are a disgraceful company.

[SwiftLives]

Judging by the screencaps on this site (http://www.adobeegitim.com/dersler/ders.asp?konuid=77&dersno=641), I'm thinking our app icons are going to be the same, just with black letters instead of white.

who effin' hoo.

App icons aside, as a graphic designer, there's not much to compel me to upgrade to CS4. Unless CS4 really catches on in the marketplace, I think I'll wait another 16-18 months for CS5.

Sigh.

I do very much wish Adobe had some competition. It almost makes me miss Quark.

Almost.

[Goldfinger]

Judging by the screencaps on this site (http://www.adobeegitim.com/dersler/ders.asp?konuid=77&dersno=641), I'm thinking our app icons are going to be the same, just with black letters instead of white.

Yikes, brushed metal :D

[aafuss1]

I'd like to see a Flash elements-a cheaper and easy to use version of Flash for home and student users-seeing as there's nothing affordable swishmax on the mac.

Also no following of interface guidelines-strange choice.

[Wash08]

Ok Since adobe bought MM and kill FreeHand, forced all FH user to basically switch to AI they have not implemented any of the superior features FH had compare to AI.:confused:

1. Find and replace graphics FH is 1000% better than AI
2. Text control FH better AI sucks
3. Ability to work in mix mode RGB/CMYK
4. Object control FH is aging 1000% better
5. Star and Polygon control
6. Output area printing
7. Halftone/line screen control for individual objects
8. FH Masking implantation was and still light years ahead of AI
9. The mirror tool in FH

The list goes on...I would not pay for CS4 unless it has these feature.

[Infrared]

You can spot amateurs who use less than 5% of the features of the CS apps from this whining that occurs every time Adobe releases a new version of its Creative Suite. They'd actually be happy if only the UI theme was changed every time.

It's those that would like to think of themselves as pros
that complain about amateurs ;)

[edenwaith]

You can spot amateurs who use less than 5% of the features of the CS apps from this whining that occurs every time Adobe releases a new version of its Creative Suite. They'd actually be happy if only the UI theme was changed every time.

You should see me use MS Paint, then! I can use up to 50% of Paint's features! :)

[CTYankee]

I've used Dreamweaver and Fireworks and they seem pretty minor imo. Good changes, worth getting...but for how much? Standard Adobe pricing? Nope, not me.

[Anuba]

Gotta disagree. At least in the case of Dreamweaver, Macromedia did get out maintenance upgrades. Not lots, but some. This no-upgrade thing can't be written off as a holdover from Macromedia's corporate culture, it's a new Adobe thing.
Well, I've used their respective products forever, in particular Flash (since 1.0) and Photoshop (since 3.0). I've never had any major issues with Photoshop, but Flash was always a bug factory (and dont' get me started on Director...). In the beginning I used cracked versions so I thought I only had myself to blame, then one day I could finally afford to go legit and I thought ahhh, great, stable software and instant access to maintenance updates. Only to find that the legit version was just as unstable and that there were no maintenance updates to speak of. On the rare occasion that they released one, it usually fixed obscure stuff I never noticed, while glossing over the major issues that were staring you in the face.

So in my experience, poor quality control and reluctance to clean up the mess is a Macromedia tradition that carried over to Adobe after the merger -- not a new Adobe thing.

(The exception being Adobe Updater, which Macromedia probably can't be blamed for, it's so buggy it should be illegalized).

[bretm]

I have to disagree.

From what I've seen, this update going to be huge......particularly After Effects and Flash.

And hopefully they've converted Dreamweaver's awful Macromedia interface to Adobe's.

The two are kinda merging as the versions continue. But I'd have to go with all the Macromedia interfaces over Adobe's. Adobe was palette hell. And every app was differnet. Macromedia had the one standard properties pallette at the bottom in nearly every app. Highlight something, and most the things that you could do appeared in the pallette.

Every try GoLive? That was a nightmare. Good thing DW can import GoLive templates.

[bretm]

Well, as I look at all the info and images out there on Flash CS4, I see that they have indeed screwed the properties panel and put it on the right like all the other Adobe panel crap.

That said, they've finally merged AE (LiveMotion) tech into Flash. Some of you may recall that Adobe put out an incredible Flash animation app called LiveMotion years ago. In fact, I still use it on Leopard and it works. Even though they discontinued it 5 years ago!

It is still light years ahead of Flash in drawing and animating. Actionscript, however is another story because LiveMotion is still stuck in 2002.

The big problem back then was that Adobe was always a Flash format version behind. They couldn't reverse engineer the tech until Macromedia came out with the latest version. So by the time LiveMotion 2 was encoding Flash 6 files, Flash (the program) was creating Flash 7 files, etc.

But not a big deal if all you're doing is making animations and interfaces. In fact, you hardly need to know a line of actionscript. I mean, what's up with all the actionscript you need to know to make a freakin button in flash? In LiveMotion, I simply highlight ANYTHING on the screen and go to the web pallette and enter the link address. It can be a full address or relative or absolute or whatever. That's it. The actionscript is of course created by LiveMotion on export. Why the hell should anyone know programming to create a LINK? Let's hope flash CS4 steals from LiveMotion in this way too.

[soulbot]

I have to disagree.

From what I've seen, this update going to be huge......particularly After Effects and Flash.



I saw a preview of AE CS4 at the creativecow.net (I'd point you to it, however, per Adobe's request the article has been removed.) Either way, they were either holding back a lot of stuff OR your version of "huge" is way different than mine.

What I saw was pretty lackluster. New "Find" feature, mini-flow, couple new effects, 3D objects (a la Photoshop - boring.) Individual transformation for X,Y,Z. Camera movement via left, middle, right click. XFL export. Can't remember much more - but that's the point. Not remarkable to me.

What am I missing?

[Anuba]

Well, as I look at all the info and images out there on Flash CS4, I see that they have indeed screwed the properties panel and put it on the right like all the other Adobe panel crap.

The two are kinda merging as the versions continue. But I'd have to go with all the Macromedia interfaces over Adobe's. Adobe was palette hell. And every app was differnet. Macromedia had the one standard properties pallette at the bottom in nearly every app. Highlight something, and most the things that you could do appeared in the pallette.
It's a matter of preference... Back in the old 4:3 days it made sense to have the properties panel at the bottom, but now with widescreen it's become a waste of screen real estate. On my laptop with a 1680x1050 screen, only half of the Properties panel in Flash CS3 has any content, the right half is empty. With the Timeline at the top and the Properties panel hogging the bottom, the Stage area becomes this narrow horizontal strip... and 1680x1050 is pretty high for a laptop, most 15.4" screens are 1440x900 or even 1280x768.

I think the widescreen & laptop revolutions may be part of the reason why Adobe keeps trying to make make the palettes smaller and easier to manage and minimize. Back when all designers were on a dual monitor desktop setup, Adobe and Macromedia could waste all the space they wanted. At my office I have a 4960x1600 3-monitor setup and my only problem with that is trying to fill the space, no matter how many Flash palettes I enable... but I also work a lot on my laptop, and the Properties panel is the one thing I keep having to toggle on/off to enjoy a decent workspace. So I for one am thrilled about getting rid of it in CS4.

[Lornholio]

Anyone have any further info on CS4's utilisation of the machine's GPU? I will be buying a new mac laptop in the coming month and am toying between MB and MBP. I have a good monitor for home use and can figure out spec advantages (and of course cost) for myself, except for the potential use of the GPU in CS4. I'm a photographer so I use Photoshop, Bridge (possibly Lightroom in the future) and Dreamweaver. What advantages may the MBP's GPU offer for these applications, and would the price and portability hit of a MBP over a MB be worth it?

Or Apple could just release a 12" MBP for me...

[Firefly2002]

Most PS versions since PS6 have been minor updates.

[TheConArtist]

Minor or Major Updates aside, I think the real importance of CS4 will be the full integration of the former macromedia applications into the adobe fold. This means consistent UI, keyboard shortcuts, and workflows. This also means further integration and cohesiveness. The aquisition of macromedia was a big deal and it must be difficult to combine staff, ideas, and egos to make the new software (think apple + next when making os X 10.0).

With that said, I think competition is always a good thing, as it tends to lower prices and force developers to make better or more useful software. But unlike microsoft, I am not afraid of Adobe's marketshare dominance (yet). The reason is that I get a sense that the wonderful people at adobe make software because they have a genuine, intrinsic interest in it, where as at microsoft, the only people who care are in R&D (cool ideas, but they rarely get used - surface being the exception to the rule). Anyways, I say this because if you've ever met an Adobe rep, read the Adobe blogs, or read official forum posts by adobe team members, they show that they have a desire to make better tools that they themselves use, and they see themselves as users too. This in no way guarentees consistent or timely innovation, but i do think that it is likely that we wont' be let down anytime soon.

Don't get me wrong though, I wish corel, or Microsoft (with their expression line) would make something better then what Adobe does - it would force Adobe to one up them! I use Adobe products because for me, they are the best creative apps out there. Sure, I use many other companie's software too for creative work, but CS3 is at the core of my software toolset. Sure, I have a bias favoring adobe, but thats only because they have a proven track reccord of making great software! However, I am hardware/software agnostic in that I'll always use the best tool for the job, though I'm more likely to stick with what i know if their aren't signifigantly better options out there. For example, I love after effects timeline / keyframing features, but apple motoins realtime editing/playback/audio features has gotten me to buy and try to learn it. I hope AE gets these features, but until it does, I'll be using motion simply because I think pre-composing / exporting draft versions / RAM previews suck balls. I mean its freaking 2008 and AE can't play audio in real time with the visuals? I mean don't most motion graphics pieces contain audio that needs to be synched with video? WTF mate!

I realize this rant is fairly long, but if you read this far I hope these ideas paint the adobe situation in what i feel is a more realistic light. Rather then looking at CS4 as an upgrade from CS3 (just another software version) The bigger picture is what CS4 will say about the new directions that the revamped Adobe company is going in - and how adobe hasn't steered us wrong yet.

p.s. now that i"m thinking about software, I must add that I miss Fractal Design / Creature house (the origional creators of painter and expression) as I felt like they were some of the most artist/design centric software creators out there. Sure their software had some usability quirks, but many features that have yet to be implamented in current software. Its too bad Corel can't innovate nor do they try to take risks or think indipendantly about their products. I"ve never used MS expression products, so I can't comment on their quality, but I do wish they would make the expression line of software cross platform and push the software more in terms of marketing / advertising that it even exists.

If anything though, I think there is a surge of 3rd party, indipendant graphics apps comming out now, at least on the mac. Apps like acorn and pixelmator show that competition is still around, albiet in a smaller way for the time being. its a shame that on the pc side, software such as dogwaffle and opencavas arnen't updated as much and seem to only be known to a few who are as geeky as I.

So yean, i'm excited to see CS4 because at the end of the day its a new toy to play with. CS4 is used by so many people that it won't please everyone, and may piss off a few, but as long as they don't remove features, increase startup times, or increase stability, I can't really complain. However, that is asking for a lot. Feature bloat alone can kill off good software. So even if CS4 doesn't offer as many new 'features' as you would like, some more spit n' polish is just what the DR. ordered for mission critical software, and to be quite honest, new features are exciting, but 6 months down the line, how many new features will you really be using anyways? New isn't always better, but improved always is. And thats how the cookie crumbles.:)

[Anuba]

Don't get me wrong though, I wish corel, or Microsoft (with their expression line) would make something better then what Adobe does - it would force Adobe to one up them!
Yeah, the worst thing about Adobe's acquisition of Macromedia is that it eliminated the only thing that even resembles competition. Now there's Adobe, nothing, nothing, nothing, and then there's MS and Corel. Anyone who's ever tried highjumping without a crossbar knows that you can't even jump half as high if there's nothing to aim for. When CS3 was released they still had the joint competitive momentum of both companies, but CS4 is the one release that will reveal whether they've gotten complacent at the top.

[a456]

Reminders of tomorrow's webcast have been dispatched: http://mail.adobe-direct.com/v?xJvJJvPEcPHHWvPTv

[Anuba]

Uh... what the hell is up with these upgrade prices?

I used to be a Macromedia Studio 8 owner, and when I upgraded (or perhaps crossgraded is a more appropriate term) from Studio 8 to CS3 Web Premium, I got Photoshop Extended, Illustrator and Acrobat (neither of which I owned before). So, apart from upgrades to Flash, Dreamweaver and Fireworks, I also got brand new licenses for Photoshop, Illustrator and Acrobat. All for a total of 5820 SEK.

But now that I am a full Photoshop + Illustrator + Flash + Acrobat + Fireworks + Dreamweaver licensee, they want 6975 SEK for the underwhelming CS4 upgrade...? Ha! Fat chance. Hey Adobe, call me when the clearance sale starts, I might willing to pick up one of your millions of unsold CS4 upgrades for 1500 SEK. "Might" being the operative word.

[kbmb]

Uh... what the hell is up with these upgrade prices?

I used to be a Macromedia Studio 8 owner, and when I upgraded (or perhaps crossgraded is a more appropriate term) from Studio 8 to CS3 Web Premium, I got Photoshop Extended, Illustrator and Acrobat (neither of which I owned before). So, apart from upgrades to Flash, Dreamweaver and Fireworks, I also got brand new licenses for Photoshop, Illustrator and Acrobat. All for a total of 5820 SEK.

But now that I am a full Photoshop + Illustrator + Flash + Acrobat + Fireworks + Dreamweaver licensee, they want 6975 SEK for the underwhelming CS4 upgrade...? Ha! Fat chance. Hey Adobe, call me when the clearance sale starts, I might willing to pick up one of your millions of unsold CS4 upgrades for 1500 SEK. "Might" being the operative word.

Same here. I upgraded to CS3 Web Premium from Studio 8 for $499.

Now to upgrade to CS4 Web Premium they want $599 ?!?

-Kevin

[Anuba]

Same here. I upgraded to CS3 Web Premium from Studio 8 for $499.

Now to upgrade to CS4 Web Premium they want $599 ?!?

-Kevin
Yeah, I mean... had it been a massive upgrade, it might have warranted this price... but as far as I can tell, Flash is the only application that has changed substantially. Illustrator I barely use, Photoshop - oooh, painting 3D objects, stop the presses! Not.

I think I might skip this one, which is totally unlike me, but robbery is where I draw the line. I'll wait until a special offer for reluctant upgraders comes along, a few months down the line, and if it doesn't, I'll hold off until CS5. Too bad about Flash CS4, but I'd need to buy two upgrades (Mac+PC) and hell will freeze over before I pay 2x6975 SEK (=$2132) for this...

(Yeah, that's right... 6975 SEK isn't $599, it's $1066. The price difference between the US and Europe is mindboggling when it comes to Adobe. No other American goods are THAT much more expensive in Europe, not by a long shot.)

[sangosimo]

windows development is going to be so much faster then osx development.

[dimme]

I love adobe software and upgrade when new versons come out. This time I am sending a message with my wallet. Give me something new, wow me and I will give you my money!

[dfs]

Besides downright peer-to-peer ripoffs, we all know about those "grey market" vendors who sell software at about 80% off list (we get spam from them constantly). The chances that they get their software legally is about zero. I suppose you could say that's their problem, but in general I steer clear of them because I think as an end user I have to maintain some sort of ethical standards. But I must say that when Adobe charges the moon for its upgrades -- and never puts out free maintenance bugsquash upgrades, but rolls these into the next paid-for upgrade -- it is exceedingly tempting to fall into a kind of Robin Hood mentality and think that it's okay to buy their software on the grey market because the bastards have it coming. After all, here I am confronted with the choice of living with buggy CS3 Dreamweaver, paying nearly four hundred bucks for a legit copy of CS4, or picking it up that way for maybe sixty bucks, which, since I doubt I'll ever need or use any new CS4 features, is itself a pretty steep price to squash some bugs. This, i. m. h. o., is a lousy position for a Dreamweaver user to be put in, and Adobe only gets away with it because they enjoy a virtual monopoly on this particular market. Has Adobe turned into little more than a den of thieves?

[SimonMW]

(Yeah, that's right... 6975 SEK isn't $599, it's $1066. The price difference between the US and Europe is mindboggling when it comes to Adobe. No other American goods are THAT much more expensive in Europe, not by a long shot.)

Adobe have never given a good explanation for this. They have never explained either why they charge the Republic of Ireland rate of tax (over 20%) to UK purchasers who order from their website!

It is lack of competition, pure and simple, that has caused this.

[rasmasyean]

I think it's mostly a technology upgrade in the 64-bit sense...

What are the advantages of 64-bit computing?

In early testing of 64-bit support in Photoshop for Windows®, overall performance gains ranged from 8% to 12%. Those who work with extremely large files may realize noticeably greater gains in performance, in some cases as dramatic as ten times the previous speed. This is because 64-bit applications can address larger amounts of memory and thus result in less file swapping — one of the biggest factors that can affect data processing speed.
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/photoshop/faq/?promoid=DRHXB

This is what Windows can do in 64-bit...
...all 64-bit versions of Microsoft operating systems currently impose a 16 TB limit on address space and allow no more than 128 GB of physical memory due to the impracticality of having 16 TB of RAM. Processes created on Windows Vista x64 Edition are allotted 8 TB in virtual memory for user processes and 8 TB for kernel processes to create a virtual memory of 16 TB.
http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/5709

Vista also has SuperFetch (http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/window-on-windows/?p=735) disk caching and maybe that might help with the increase in speed of the computer.

Given that Macs don't have the technology to support 64-bit, I imagine that for some people, it might give a competitive advantage to buy some Vista machines for CS4. Of course, it depends on how sophisticated your application is. If you're application is intense, 8TB of application memory is a pretty big jump from present stuff. They use this kind of power for Mars re-entry simulations and Boeing 787 design and stuff like that.

[tringler]

Ok Since adobe bought MM and kill FreeHand, forced all FH user to basically switch to AI they have not implemented any of the superior features FH had compare to AI.:confused:

1. Find and replace graphics FH is 1000% better than AI
2. Text control FH better AI sucks
3. Ability to work in mix mode RGB/CMYK
4. Object control FH is aging 1000% better
5. Star and Polygon control
6. Output area printing
7. Halftone/line screen control for individual objects
8. FH Masking implantation was and still light years ahead of AI
9. The mirror tool in FH

The list goes on...I would not pay for CS4 unless it has these feature.

You are absolutely correct. FreeHand was a great program. Have been running it since the first version which was on a floppy. I still use FH8 on my older Macs and in Classic since I find it to be more reliable than FH10. AI is and always has been a piece of you know what. I would imagine that Adobe didn't need to pick up any of FHs great features since they now have a monopoly. Another feature in FH was grouping. You got 4 corner handles which you could drag to resize. When AI groups, every handle is highlighted. Very confusing to say the least.