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eclipse525
Jan 20, 2004, 10:10 PM
I read an article on wired about this organization called "NORMAL" that's backing up Tommy Chong. Anyway, do you feel that this country need to Reform the Laws on Marijauna? I think the industial applications alone justify it.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm


~e

themadchemist
Jan 20, 2004, 10:40 PM
I agree. After all, it's probably a less dangerous thing to smoke in and of itself than a cigarette.

It's the gateway drug thing, though, that's the problem.

dave1234
Jan 20, 2004, 10:53 PM
I agree it should be made legal. The only real problem is the gateway thing.

jelloshotsrule
Jan 20, 2004, 10:56 PM
i think pot should be legalized. i have never done drugs and don't plan to.

there are many reasons why it should be legalized in my opinion, but i'll let that go right now

as for it being a gateway drug. i think that alcohol is just as much of one...

also, i think that the only reason pot might be more of a gateway drug is that it exposes folks to drug dealers... in other words, once you make the jump from buying cigs/booze in a store, to getting pot from a dealer... then why not see if the dealer has something else to offer? whereas if you get pot at a store or wherever they'd sell it (i have no idea on that one..) then you have to take that big step from store to dealer to move up the ladder.. which doesn't mean some people won't do it, but i think that it's that gap between store/dealer moreso than the drug itself which makes pot a "gateway drug"... just my thoughts

scem0
Jan 20, 2004, 10:58 PM
Well I see you both think that marijuana being a gateway drug is a problem... So doesn't that mean that if it is legalized then more of more dangerous drugs will end up being consumed?

I think that but only to a small degree. It isn't hard to get weed (at least where I live) and anyone who wants it has it.

Personally, I think it should be illegal. I see too many people at school who act 10 years younger than their age because of marijuana.

But marijuana is like alcohol in the way that, yes, it can be very dangerous, and many people who can legally drink shouldn't drink. On the other hand, many people who aren't of legal age, are mature and responsible enough to drink appropriate amounts.

If there was some 'responsiblity meter' I'd say make weed legal, but only let responsible people use it. Unfortunately this meter doesn't exist and legalization would lead to abuse, and thats why I say do not legalize it.

scem0

eclipse525
Jan 21, 2004, 12:03 AM
i think that Alcohol is way more addicting than Pot. Here's the REAL reason why it hasn't been legalized. "SELF-INTEREST groups". Marijuana is alot more durable than Cotton. It can grow practically anywhere. Not to mention it grows quickly. Unlike Cotton or other natural fibers. It's properties are well known in throughout the medical community as being very beneficial. I'm sure there are many others, BUT the whole addicting thing is BullS**t. HagenDaaz Ice cream is addicting, McDonlds is addicting, Coffee is addicting BUT you don't see any attacks on these products.


PS--> did I mention Krispy Kreme donuts. :D

~e

jrv3034
Jan 21, 2004, 10:34 AM
I feel marijuana should be 100% legal. Explain to me how it's ok to drink alchohol but it's "immoral" or "wrong" to smoke pot. If a person want's to get high, they should be able to get high, just like they're able to get drunk.

Yes, there would be people stupid enough to smoke pot and drive, and potentially kill someone. But the answer isn't making it illegal. Look how well that worked during the prohibition! Spend all the money the government is using fighting marijuana on education, and watch as the number of people in prisons declines, the number of drug-related crimes drops, and the drug cartels fall.

PS- I've never smoked pot, or cigarettes, and don't intend to, either, because I don't want to get lung cancer.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 21, 2004, 11:34 AM
laws need to be changed, its a lot easier to tax and control weed then to leave it like it is. Legalize it and kids will have a tougher time getting it. let cops go chase real crime instead of who is burning one. Free up the cops,lawyers,judges and courts so they can focus on what they should be working on. use that tax money for education. hows that burn one for education;)

jayscheuerle
Jan 21, 2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by themadchemist
I agree. After all, it's probably a less dangerous thing to smoke in and of itself than a cigarette.

It's the gateway drug thing, though, that's the problem.

It's actually a lot worse for you (in terms of tar) than a cigarette, but that could be because cigs have filters on them, in general.

The only reason it's a gateway drug is that you have to deal with illegal channels to obtain it. You're mixing with the element, you know, "bad guys".

Marijuana, used responsibly, is no worse than drinking alcohol if you compare levels of impairment. The biggest problem is that regular use can affect memory and reaction time for days after you smoke it, if not longer. Smoking weed can "make you dumb".

Legalize it already.

idkew
Jan 21, 2004, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by scem0
But marijuana is like alcohol in the way that, yes, it can be very dangerous, and many people who can legally drink shouldn't drink.

scem0

Let me guess, you have never smoked pot?

Please explain to me how pot is anywhere near as dangerous as alcohol. Remember, those commercials against pot that you see, they are propaganda, not scientific evidence.

jayscheuerle
Jan 21, 2004, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by idkew
Please explain to me how pot is anywhere near as dangerous as alcohol.

Let's just say they both can be dangerous if abused, but nobody has ever decided to kick someone's ass when they're high.

I've seen my brother in law become a mumbling wreck from smoking dope all the time.

My other brother in law drinks a 6 pack every night (smokes too).

Moderation is the key.

K4NN4B15
Jan 21, 2004, 12:17 PM
economics. its a FLOWER. everyone would just grow thier own. "Industry"(trying to keep this from getting off topic and moved) can "produce" 99% of alcohol.

think about all of the jobs that would be lost. billions of *well spent* tax dollars on commercials, police and district courts would actually have to go after REAL crime instead of just harassing kids for easy fines. and as for industry.. oh no hemp is decomposable. what about all the garbage men? and plastic/nylon/ect manufactuers? or the lumberjacks who cut the forests thinner than j-lo's thong for printer paper? and what about all of our buddies whos GNP depends on our dependance on petrolium? Or the *great* lab manufactured chemicals you can get a perscription for to solve all of your problems? Or how about our fine upstanding lawyers.... lol ok i cant even finish that one without laughing.

you get the point.

jayscheuerle
Jan 21, 2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by K4NN4B15
economics. its a FLOWER. everyone would just grow thier own.

Sounds like someone who isn't experiencing 17 degrees F and negative wind chills right now, along with a sun that sets at 5:00. :D

I've brewed my own beer before. Others do it better. I'd rather buy weed from a Micro-farmer, pay a little more and get a little better, than to buy it from Bud...

K4NN4B15
Jan 21, 2004, 12:26 PM
a 1lb flowerpot in your window is a little different than a few gallons of home made beer

K4NN4B15
Jan 21, 2004, 12:28 PM
dont even get me started on how cheap grow lights and a hydro tank is... le sigh.... lol

rainman::|:|
Jan 21, 2004, 12:41 PM
a system where the government can tell you what you can and cannot do with your own body-- sounds "free" to me...

drugs, prostitution and euthanasia are three things that we've seen can be legalized in a country with no negative effects. the government has no right to ban them.

gateway drug theory is kind of a wash, think of it this way: you're on a road that goes through 5 towns. Anyone that wants to go to town 2-5 will have to go through town 1 first. some people want to actually go to town 1 and stay there. does all this mean that going to town 1 makes you want to go to town 5? obviously not. but that's the way the facts are being skewed. if someone wants to really **** themself up, they're not going to wake up one day and do heroin, they're going to work their way there. people seek different things from drugs. i can't stand this idea that we're all victims of drugs, that we have no self control.

i'd smoke pot whether or not it's legal. and i'm sticking with pot. if pot was such a gateway, there'd be no lifelong stoners like me.

paul

jayscheuerle
Jan 21, 2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by K4NN4B15
dont even get me started on how cheap grow lights and a hydro tank is... le sigh.... lol

Hey, I went to Art School in L.A. in the late 80's, I KNOW about that stuff! But whatever we were able to grow would never have landed us on the cover of High Times... :p

crazytom
Jan 21, 2004, 01:27 PM
Yes, I think it should be legalized...and all drugs for that matter. Tax the hell out of them and use that money for free health care for all!

All the propaganda has really warped peoples minds. The benefits of the drug far outweigh the detriments.

It's REALLY stupid that hemp, marijuana's cousin that has little to no 'mind altering' effect, is illegal and the potential uses are staggering! The laws criminalizing marijuana are around 50 years old and originally used to keep minorities under the thumb of 'The Man'.

Politicians are very reluctant to support such a thing: it would be political suicide. That's why the only pro-marijuana laws that were passed were on a California referendum that all voters decided on (and the resulting "Marijuana clinics" deemed illegal by the feds). The government has WAY TOO MUCH money tied up in the 'war' (which, is just a war by the American government against Americans.) and it won't go away easy because it's an integrated part of 'the old boys network'.

Free the weed!

dynamicd
Jan 21, 2004, 01:35 PM
I also think it should be made legal. At first, I believe, it would be overly abused and perhaps be a lot of cases of people going into work stoned or see a lot of people high during everyday activities like going to mall and what not. But after a year or so things would calm down and we'd only see benefits from it in terms of money grossed from taxing. I think someone commented on how law enforcement would lose money but you could just adjust some of the tax money to go into law enforcement.

Sun Baked
Jan 21, 2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by eclipse525
HagenDaaz Ice cream is addicting, McDonlds is addicting, Coffee is addicting BUT you don't see any attacks on these products.


PS--> did I mention Krispy Kreme donuts. :D

~e Funny I keep seeing attacks on these things all the time.

That fat kids mother that sued McDonald for making her son fat, that whole coffee thing at McDonalds.

Ice Cream having too much fat...

Krisy Kreme being plain evil...

etc.

of course if you attack all these evil addicting substances making the US fat, what are people going to eat for comfort when they getting off cigs, drugs, alcohol, etc.?

kuyu
Jan 21, 2004, 01:47 PM
Cannibis was outlawed not because of the drug, but because of the rest of the plant. The term "Marijuana" was invented by an American, Henry Anslinger, who wanted it to sound like a mexican word (It's jota in mexico, i think).

Anslinger, the CEO of GM, Mr. DuPont, and one of the big petro chemical companies were all in cahootz to increase profits. Ford developed a car made from hemp that ran on hemp, and it had the first dent resistant body ever made. GM was about 6 years behind in the R & D process, and it would be cheaper to outlaw cannibis than hire a bunch of engineers.

Anslinger was appointed as a kind of "drug czar", and put out tons of propaganda about how weed makes people crazy. They also insisted that "marijuana" was more dangerous than cocaine and heroine. See the film "Reefer Madness" for a taste of the propaganda.

Our grandparents were raised in this anti-canibus environment, that was based of corporate profits, not a real danger to society. It snowballed until the present, and now a guy with few joints is a hardened criminal in the laws eyes.

Think illegal cannibus is stupid, stop buying anything made by GM or DuPont. Who knew that your cavalier is the reason 1/4 of all federal prisoners are serving non-violent, drug related sentences. ;)

krimson
Jan 21, 2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by K4NN4B15
dont even get me started on how cheap grow lights and a hydro tank is... le sigh.... lol

My friend ran a $1000+ electricity bill with his 500w HPS, granted he also has a reef tank (it's a great cover, btw) that uses it as well.



I'd rather have a road full of stoners than a road full of drunks... it's as simple as that, i dont know anyone that gets bigger "balls" because of smoking. Most people do have slower reactions, but just as with driving, you shouldn't do it, there could be laws to regulate, 21+, no driving, etc. It's not an impossible thing, just no one really has the clout to get it thru the conservative congress.

As far as being a gateway, all illegal drugs are gateway drugs, because they put you in contact with a illegal drug deal, because it's more profitable to sell a gram of coke than it is to sell a gram of weed, most dealers do sell other stuff. Just the mere fact of smoking doesn't cause you to want to try harder drugs more than alchohol would make you want to start abusing prescription painkillers.

As the saying goes, marijuana is only a gateway to the snack drawer.

virividox
Jan 21, 2004, 03:14 PM
WAHOOOooo drugs hehe, amazing how many ppl replied to this thread in a short time.

i dont really hav a preference, legal or not it doesnt matter, if u wanna use it just dont be selling it to kids

jayscheuerle
Jan 21, 2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by krimson
As the saying goes, marijuana is only a gateway to the snack drawer.

I like that!

When in my wood shop, I can work on projects while sipping a beer (spraypaint lid on bottle to block dust), but even the smallest toke makes me screw up measurements, worry about cutting my fingers off, etc...

denjeff
Jan 21, 2004, 03:41 PM
In Holland it is sold legally in so called "coffee-shops"... In Holland, there are less adicts to drugs then across the border in Belgium. I mean, legalise it, and it will get out of the illegal circuit. Buying a coke in a bar exposes people to alcohol and makes them want to buy it some day, buying your pod from a more-than-pod dealer is a gateway, a legal shop isn't...

krimson
Jan 21, 2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
I like that!

When in my wood shop, I can work on projects while sipping a beer (spraypaint lid on bottle to block dust), but even the smallest toke makes me screw up measurements, worry about cutting my fingers off, etc...

wow, you must be sensitive. :D
Everyone has different reactions to different things.. that's why there's DWI laws and such.

my ex-gf would pass out after ONE beer... seriously. But damn, she had crazy vacuum lungs, and would write her essay's shortly after.

jayscheuerle
Jan 21, 2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by krimson
wow, you must be sensitive. :D
Everyone has different reactions to different things.. that's why there's DWI laws and such.

my ex-gf would pass out after ONE beer... seriously. But damn, she had crazy vacuum lungs, and would write her essay's shortly after.

Writing's fine high. So is painting or drawing or playing music.

Fine angles, compound cuts and even simple math are not the friend of THC.

Some things benefit from mild hallucinogens. They can accept the curves that are thrown in there, even groove on them. Unforgiving woodwork is not one of them...

krimson
Jan 21, 2004, 04:10 PM
Hmm... yeah, the whole math thing + THC isn't good at all, you're right. Nor is dangerous power tools... :D

though gardening (legal) is really nice with THC. ;)

scem0
Jan 21, 2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by idkew
Let me guess, you have never smoked pot?

Please explain to me how pot is anywhere near as dangerous as alcohol. Remember, those commercials against pot that you see, they are propaganda, not scientific evidence.

Have I ever smoked pot? Hell no.

Why is it dangerous? Its dangerous only for people who can't moderate their consumption of it. I bet the average GPA at my school would go up .5 points if nobody at my school drank or smoked. People end up skipping classes, not doing homework, and being disruptive because of pot... One good example is a guy named Charlie, he just sits in the back of the class saying stupid things as loud as he can, unless he is asleep. He is the epitemy of a 'pothead'. Has the accent going and everything. He acts like a frikin' 7 year old and he is 17! It is because of the pot. I see it happening in my friend Andrew. He started smoking pot last year, and now he has started skipping school, and failing easy classes. He is trying to quit, but he can't.

But on the other hand, there are bunches of people who smoke who can handle it, and who don't abuse it. This is okay in my book, but this isn't always the case, and there is no way to keep the irresponsible people from it.

Does all of this apply for alcohol? Yes. Should Alcohol be illegal? I think drinking too much should be illegal, and drinking at all and then driving should be illegal.

Alcohol just like pot is a drug, they are both abused. I'd say make them both fully legal to responsible people, but that is not an option, unfortunately.

scem0

idkew
Jan 21, 2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by scem0
Why is it dangerous? Its dangerous only for people who can't moderate their consumption of it. I bet the average GPA at my school would go up .5 points if nobody at my school drank or smoked. People end up skipping classes, not doing homework, and being disruptive because of pot... One good example is a guy named Charlie, he just sits in the back of the class saying stupid things as loud as he can, unless he is asleep. He is the epitemy of a 'pothead'. Has the accent going and everything. He acts like a frikin' 7 year old and he is 17! It is because of the pot. I see it happening in my friend Andrew. He started smoking pot last year, and now he has started skipping school, and failing easy classes. He is trying to quit, but he can't.

scem0

the reason i ask, is that your beliefs of pot are quite obviously formed from your schooling and watching anti-drug propaganda.

your charlie is not this way only due to pot. he would not be a 4.0, ap class only student if he chose not smoke. he obviously *wants* to act like a pothead, as he thinks this is cool. smoking pot gives you no accent.

pot also does not 100% of the time make you less intelligent. many of the smartest people i know smoke/d a heck of a lot of pot, and they still did much better than most in class. yes, pot has a "hangover", but this is neither permanent, nor acute. yes, pot is bad for the lungs, just as almost any inhaled substance. yes, pot can reduce reaction time, but this make no difference unless you are driving under the influence.

as for andrew, i find it hard to believe he is addicted to pot so strongly he can not quit. while pot is somewhat mentally addictive, (just as anything that feels good is; including sex, eating, and running) it is by no means physically addictive. once again, pot does not make you skip class, only you, yourself does.

marijuana, or thc remains one of the safest psychotropic substances out there. while staying off drugs is safer than doing drugs, if you are going to do a drug, pot is one of the safest. you can not overdose on pot. you do not believe you can fly and hurt yourself. you do not want to fight. it does not get you pregnant. it does act as a short term birth control substance for men. it does induce deep thought and peaceful actions. overall, GO POT!

bryanc
Jan 22, 2004, 12:44 AM
While I'm completely in favour of legalizing it (and, it looks like we will be up here in Canada), I actually agree with the 'gateway drug' argument. Not that I think people who start smoking pot are likely to take up heroine or other 'hard' drugs, but I do know lots of people who started smoking tobacco after they started smoking pot. And tobacco is a *very* scary drug.

These folks are now in the position of having a recreational interest in marijuana, and a physiological addiction to nicotine :-(

I'd much rather see tobacco illegal than marijuana, but I don't think criminalizing either drug makes sense.

Cheers

bwawn
Jan 22, 2004, 01:32 AM
scem0's views on marijuana are acceptable, but flawed. As idkew pointed out, the people in scem0's anecdotes act the way they do because they want to. "Charlie" would be failing as much as he does whether or not he smoked. Maybe smoking adds to the image and mindset he wants, but he is bringing it on himself. Your friend Andrew is not addicted to pot because it is not physiologically addictive -- it, like idkew pointed out, is as addictive as sex or eating foods you highly enjoy. You want to do it, but you can stop yourself with no problem. Of course, I don't know these people so I can't be 100% certain in what I've said, but the above applies to most people as far as I know.

As for my own anecdotes: a friend of mine who is doing very well in her second year at Stanford also graduated #2 in my high school class. She smoked/smokes marijuana regularly. Same goes for another friend of mine who just graduated at #1 in her high school class last year and currently is pulling her own weight at the University of Michigan. I have numerous other examples similar to these. Like I said, scem0's anecdotes and examples are acceptable, but flawed because the people portrayed would have similar studying/behavioral characteristics whether or not they smoked. Simply put, scem0 is much like I was about three to five years ago: buying into the propoganda the government is putting out against drugs. This makes sense, since he appears to be about three years younger than me. (Well, doesn't really make sense, but lines up with my attitudes at a specific age pretty well.)

I, for one, do not smoke and don't plan to simply because I don't have the interest. I am the same way with alcohol. However, I strongly feel that marijuana should be legalized. We are wasting too much money on a near-pointless "war" on drugs. A harmless drug offender can get more jail time than a rapist, and that is ridiculous. The spending we put toward jailing drug offenders, busting drug offenders, and the lost revenues (in taxing and more) in underground drug cartelling seriously hurt the USA.

I am a health nut -- I am all about eating right and working out regularly. Hemp oil is one of the best oils around to consume for good health. It contains omega 3, 6, and 9 fats in the exact proportion recommended for heart and general health by national health organizations. However, it contains hardly traceable levels of THC since it is made from hemp seeds. The end result? It is very difficult to get access to in the USA, and was illegal at one point (and may still be in many regions). I found a place in New Jersey that will ship it out, but because of our ridiculous anti-drug (and, specifically, anti-marijuana) laws, products like this that can make our country healthier are difficult to get a hold of. There are numerous rumors surrounding hemp oil, like that the THC in it will cause you to fail a drug test, which are total BS and also propoganda. For more information on hemp oil, just go to Google and search for information on it. If you like what you read (it is a fantastic oil), you can purchase it in the USA at a good price at http://www.proteinfactory.com .

Sorry for the long message. This is a very serious subject to me -- the "war on drugs" is just another example of the USA making ridiculous and stupid decisions that only harm us, not help. For another major issue that most big politicians -- party affiliations aside -- are completely ignoring in public, do a Google search for "peak oil." Scary stuff.

scem0
Jan 22, 2004, 09:02 AM
Y'all are totally right that he brings that image upon himself. Why he would want to do that is beyond me, but the truth is that he is actually stupid.

As for Andrew. He started smoking. Then he decided he would rather smoke than study. Then when he came to school and didn't know a thing that was on the test he would just skip the class and go home and guess what? Smoke... :rolleyes:.

I'm really afraid that he won't go to college. But whatever.

Yeah, he brought all of this upon himself. But if he hadn't of had access to pot then this wouldn't have happened.

I don't think he can quit 1) because all of his friends (Except for me) smoke, so he has to see it all the time. 2) He is addicted. Agreed, it is not physical, but it is a strong mental addiction none-the-less. 3) He doesn't want to. He is happy with himself, but he doesn't realize that he is ruining any chances he has at a successful future.

By the way, his parents know, but can't get him to stop.

scem0

krimson
Jan 22, 2004, 09:06 AM
hey schem0, sounds to me like your classmate Charlie is huffing "canned air" more than smokin pot. You might want to do some intervention.

Like idkew said, there is no accent except those that are forced by people who watched too much "half baked".. slurring... yeah, there is some slowing in speech usually, maybe that's what you meant by accent? It really does sound like Charlie is just exageratting his behavior for attention possibly ... I mean really, what stoner acts louder to draw attention to himself, especially in school? I mean, if i were stoned, i wouldn't walk around the UPS store or the post office, or even my office yelling and screaming, "hey look at me, im stoned!" Or maybe he's just immature... *shrug*


Grades dropping? Only if you let it do that to you, i can give you numerous examples of "smart" (Cal Tech students, J*L employees, exectuives, designers, musicians) people smoking pot and being able to jobs effectively.

idea_hamster
Jan 22, 2004, 09:35 AM
Well, we should get to see how the experiment in the UK goes -- their downgrade of cannibis from Class B to Class C is set to go into effect on January 29th.

Here's the link to the details.... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3103416.stm)

G4scott
Jan 22, 2004, 12:06 PM
Yeah, ok... Lets legalize even more mind altering drugs... College would be so much more fun with so many more potheads... As if the drunks weren't enough... :rolleyes:

While scem0's view of the effects of pot smoking may appear to be flawed, and perpetuated by the anti-pot propaganda out there, I think he does have a point there. If his friend had never tried pot, he might have never started skipping classes, or doing bad in school. If pot wasn't the 'cool' thing to do, then this 17 year old acting like a 7 year old might start to act more like someone his age.

At my high school, people did pot just to be 'cool', and they thought that the more they did, the 'cooler' they'd be... If they went to college at all, they're going to an el cheapo community college. I think the majority of them now work at gas stations, or are staying home, living off their parents, smoking pot with the high school kids... And while pot may not make everyone stupid, anyone who smokes it to be 'cool' seems to get dumber by the second. That's the way it was in my high school, and that seems like it's the way it is in scem0's high school. These people didn't become stupid overnight. It was because of drug abuse that they got so f*cked up.

And I'm not saying everyone who smokes pot is stupid. There are those who smoke pot because it's relaxing, or for whatever reasons, but not because of peer pressure, or to be cool. I'm sure some of you guys have your reasons... But too many uneducated people go out and smoke a joint, and like it. Then, they want to drop a tab of acid, or take some crystal meth, then some coke, then some heroin... And then they're going to want heroin more than anything else, and they're going to suck a dick for a dollar, just to get their heroin. They become addicted, and when pot doesn't do it for them, they will get into worse and worse drugs, until they OD, or get screwed up trying to get their fix. All because they thought pot smoking was cool.

I mean really, if pot wasn't all that bad for people, or society, then why wouldn't it be more popular? There are other ways to relax, or relieve the pressure in our lives that are much safer and legal... I've never been so desperate to escape from the reality of my life that I've decided to smoke a joint, and I can say that no matter how crappy my life is, I won't smoke pot, because I know that it can ***** up my life even more. The same goes with smoking cigarettes and alcohol. They're temporary fixes for our problems, and if all that you can do to get away from your problems is drugs, or alcohol, then you seriously need to work things in your life out... Quoting a comedian: "we all go through bad times... I feel bad about myself too every once in a while, but then I jerk off, and it's ok..."

As for the pot vs. alcohol thing, I can't vouch for the effect of pot, but I can say that I haven't ever had so much alcohol to the point that I was no longer able to control myself. I'm also pretty sure that some people can handle certain amounts of pot without losing control, but there will always be people that get screwed up with alcohol or drugs. I'll just say that with alcohol, if the hangovers don't convince you to stop getting wasted, and the cost of it doesn't control your moderation, then there's not much further for one to go. Asides from hard liquors such as moonshine and everclear, they stick to their addiction to alcohol. And while that may be no healthier than an addiction to drugs, they are only addicted to alcohol. Drug addicts may start with pot if it were legal, but when that doesn't do it for them anymore, where are they to go? Acid? Cocaine? Heroin? I believe that these drugs will do much more damage than alcohol. I know a girl who is into heroin or something like that... She is pale white now, and looks like a toothpick... She was smart, but now has wasted her life away. I can't say I've ever seen anyone do that with alcohol, except for maybe that rich homeless guy, but I don't think this girl will make it to be as old as him if she keeps up her drug use...

Either way, I'd say it's not really pot that's the big problem. I think it's the things that pot can lead to that we're trying to avoid. Sure, it works in some countries, but in a country where everyone wants all they can get, I don't think legalizing pot is such a good idea... When they stop selling triple meat burgers at fast food places, I think we can think about it, but this country does not know moderation, and therefore, cannot handle marijuana as a country. Remember, a person is smart, but people are stupid.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 22, 2004, 12:12 PM
do people bring beer to class? treat weed same as alcohol. there is no reason to treat smokers like 2nd class citizens. the Law is obsolete. tax it, and tax it some more. there is nothing wrong after a days work and coming home to a few beers. there is nothing wrong after a days work and coming home and burning one except the fact that alcohol will make you much sloppier. Its time to get rid of this law and a few others. is this a country of Freedom or are we a country of Law after Law after Law?

Counterfit
Jan 22, 2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by G4scott
Remember, a person is smart, but people are stupid. I wish I could agree more than 100% there.

rainman::|:|
Jan 22, 2004, 12:29 PM
I'm really surprised by this keep-it-illegal attitude. Guys, irresponsible people can kill themselves with household bleach, cars result in a lot of deaths, as do tablesaws. Should we ban any of these? No, if you're stupid enough to get hurt or killed, it's your own fault (in the case of cars, it may not be)... We cannot legislate responsibility, these people have to face the consequences of their own actions. Until people start taking responsibility, a lot of the world's problems will continue-- it's this everyone-shoulders-the-blame crap that makes everyone a "victim". Well, no one is a victim of drugs, they make their own choices. We cannot make those choices for them, legally or morally.

I smoke quite a bit, yet I hold down a very good job, and maintain a good social life, pay my bills, etc. I'm one of the responsible ones. but my "pursuit of happiness" disappears because some other people are self-destructive idiots? No, we can't start making things illegal because they're "bad for you". There's no way to draw the line, where do we stop? Should McDonalds be illegal because it's a health risk on society, sure some people eat responsibly, but some get hugely obese, so the government now says that food sold must contain no fats? No. People abuse or misuse marijuana the same way they misuse everything on earth. Again, time to slap people and tell them to take RESPONSIBILITY for their actions and lives, because we as a society will not bear the blame for it anymore. If we as a society make something like this illegal, we do just that.

paul

Dros
Jan 22, 2004, 12:33 PM
There have been numerous anecdotes so far. Pot makes someone stupid, pot is used by the brightest people, pot is a gateway drug, pot is not a gateway drug.

The reality is this: pot WILL make some people stupid and ruin their lives, but not most people. Pot WILL act as a gateway drug for some people, but not most people. Folks who are arguing it is one or the other are just basing their arguments on personal observations... a bad way to set public policy.

Then it comes down to how much collateral damage is acceptable to balance out the cost and ruined lives of the war on pot? Pro-pot people have to accept that despite any wonderful experiences by themselves or their friends, pot can be a harmful experience for some users. And anti-pot people have to accept that many people have no degradation of life due to pot use.

I personally think our money is better spent not going after pot users.

Although, I don't think hemp is going to revolutionize our industrial society as NORML likes to claim. That is just an example of how pot makes people stupid! So Henry Ford built a car made of hemp-derived plastic and it was "stronger than steel". If it was that great every third world country would be making everything out of hemp. It only takes technology from 100 years ago, and they don't have the same anti-pot phobia of the US... and yet they aren't doing it. That should tell you something. There are lots of ways to get energy and materials from biomass that is not hemp, and yet it accounts for only a small fraction of modern industrial output. I do eat hemp seed granola, and it is pretty good (although I feel hungrier after I eat it! :D)