970FX - Confirmed?

[MacRumors]

Appleinsider posts (http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=349) that according to some documents, the upcoming PowerPC revision (90nm?) is indeed called the 970FX as previously claimed (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031205132410.shtml).

The "Momentum Computer Maple Evaluation System and board" document notes that it utilizes PowerPC 970FX processors that can operate at up to 2.4GHz.

Any further details are unclear though.

[johnnyjibbs]

So dual 2.4GHz G5 towers here we come then?

[Laslo Panaflex]

Well aren't the .90 chips already confirmed? They are in the G5 Xserves Who care what the official chip name is, maybe thats just me, but I don't care what the official chip name is as long as it is faster.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Well, Steve said something along the line of 3GHz by the end of next year, so they've got almost 12 months to meet that goal. 2.4GHz (a real 2,4, not the overclocked mess of the "1.42GHz" G4) would be a logical step.

If the 65nm sampling of the 9X0 cips are true, then Apple may announce 3GHz in 11 months or so, then ship a few months after that..

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by Laslo Panaflex
Well aren't the .90 chips already confirmed? They are in the G5 Xserves Who care what the official chip name is, maybe thats just me, but I don't care what the official chip name is as long as it is faster.
Yep if this is the chip that is in the Xserve, and therefore the chip in the Xserve is theoretically capable of going up to 2.4GHz, then we should see updates. This would mean that the chip is here and now.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Arn,

If the 90nm 970's are being used in the Xserve, why hasn't Apple made a bigger deal of it? You'd think they'd want everyone to know..

And have there been any comparisions of heat dissipation and power consumption between the 130 & 90nm?

[Sun Baked]

:confused:

Cool the AI pic...

http://www.appleinsider.com/images/momentum90.gif

Looks a lot like a HACKED version of the Momentum PPC 970 Eval Board pic that was posted before on this site.

http://www.970eval.com/BlockDiagram_970.html

[maradong]

those 2.4 ghz remember me of the 2.3 ghz thingy on the apple site. regarding the xserve g5, where the alt text of the images says 2.3 ghz.
Perhaps 2.4 ghz is the theoretical limit, and therefore they are only running them @_2.3 ? :p

[mkaake]

Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Well, Steve said something along the line of 3GHz by the end of next year, so they've got almost 12 months to meet that goal. 2.4GHz (a real 2,4, not the overclocked mess of the "1.42GHz" G4) would be a logical step.

If the 65nm sampling of the 9X0 cips are true, then Apple may announce 3GHz in 11 months or so, then ship a few months after that..

could have sworn he said in one year, not by the end of next year.... so you're looking for 3 ghz around june/july/august/september, depending on when things start shipping ;)

matt

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Pretty sure he said by the end of next year.. I'm sure someone can pull up the exact quote though..

Originally posted by mkaake
could have sworn he said in one year, not by the end of next year.... so you're looking for 3 ghz around june/july/august/september, depending on when things start shipping ;)

matt

[jholzner]

Originally posted by mkaake
could have sworn he said in one year, not by the end of next year.... so you're looking for 3 ghz around june/july/august/september, depending on when things start shipping ;)

matt

Yep, one year from the date of the WWDC...where they were introduced.

[Henriok]

Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Well, Steve said something along the line of 3GHz by the end of next year No he said "3 GHz this time next year" and that was in june at WWDC.

Apple Will reach 3 GHz on 90 nm, but probably not with 970FX but the next generation (Steve also said "next generation"), aka 975 (or 980 for those of you who prefer that). 975 will probably come late this summer, or early fall.. I think.

Momentum seems to be using 2.4 GHz parts, and I see no reason why Apple shouldn't get the best processors available, ie 2.6 GHz or more. And.. Apple have these parts NOW. I'm just waiting for them to announce them.

But I wouldn't bet any money on 970 reaching 3 GHz, not until the 90 nm fab matures and they have built up some kind of stock of high end parts. That will be after 975 have broken trough the barrier though.

Remember that IBM have publicly stated that the 970 family would go +2.5 GHz. That's the same type of number as the 1.8 GHz they had as top speed for the 970-part. It goes, as we all know, up to at least 2 GHz. 970FX will at least reach 2.5 GHz when it's properly introduced, I'm certain.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Apparently, you're all right! Steve's Statement (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=6904)

Well, then they've got 6 months (or 12 if you take into when it actually ships)
:p

Originally posted by Henriok
No he said "3 GHz this time next year" and that was in june at WWDC.

Apple Will reach 3 GHz on 90 nm, but probably not with 970FX but the next generation (Steve also said "next generation"), aka 975 (or 980 for those of you who prefer that). 975 will probably come late this summer, or early fall.. I think.

Momentum seems to be using 2.4 GHz parts, and I see no reason why Apple shouldn't get the best processors available, ie 2.6 GHz or more. And.. Apple have these parts NOW. I'm just waiting for them to announce them.

But I wouldn't bet any money on 970 reaching 3 GHz, not until the 90 nm fab matures and they have built up some kind of stock of high end parts. That will be after 975 have broken trough the barrier though.

Remember that IBM have publicly stated that the 970 family would go +2.5 GHz. That's the same type of number as the 1.8 GHz they had as top speed for the 970-part. It goes, as we all know, up to at least 2 GHz. 970FX will at least reach 2.5 GHz when it's properly introduced, I'm certain.

[iriejedi]

Yes.... it is another rumor site - but www.MacOSrumors.com states, reports, writes, dreams, believes, feels.... that the 970FX can run at 2.6gig.

I'm an optimist so I'm chosing to hold on to the hope that the new G5 will top out there and not stop with a small 0.4 upgrade!

Iriejedi

Tuesday, January 20 Next Update: 1.21

New PowerMac G5s still a few days away? The countdown has begun for the long-awaited second generation PowerMac G5s employing the 90nm PowerPC 970FX at up to 2.6GHz, but the grapevine is deeply divided over predictions of how soon it will come.

[Henriok]

Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Well, then they've got 6 months (or 12 if you take into when it actually ships)
:p I think that we all should remember ont thing:

975 will not be an upgraded 970FX, in that sence that IBM must complete the 970FX before they can start to really producing the 975. Not like they do with the G3 series where they fist made 750, then evolved it to 750CX, then 750CXe, then 750FX, then 750GX.. each a upgraded, more refined and powerful version than its predecessor.

970 was developed from Power4, after Power4 was finished and the development of Power5 had became the number one priority for IBM.
975 is beeing developed in parallell with its heavier brother the Power5, so 975 and 970 is brothers of sorts, with parallell development too. 975 will be off to a running start, so we don't have to wait the usual one year cycle beween updates. 970 is probably somewhat of a rush job, a stop gap, an experiment.. 975 is not, so it shouldn't come as a surprise when IBM seems to be making huge strides in performance right now.

970 was developed late on 130 nm process, it was just about to be upgraded to 90 nm. That upgrade came fast, just 9 months after we first saw 970. Then comes 975 which is developed for 90 nm all along..

It was not long ago that Intel lead the MHz war by 100% or more. At the end of this year, they will probably only lead by 33% or less.

[Sun Baked]

Now that www.MacOSrumors.com has confirmed it, it must be true. :p

Momentum has stuff all over the map that's related to the PPC 970 eval board, but most of it's named after cats -- don't know what type of cat a Maple is though.

With the XServe we know the 90nm is coming quick anyways.

[arn]

Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Arn,

If the 90nm 970's are being used in the Xserve, why hasn't Apple made a bigger deal of it? You'd think they'd want everyone to know..

And have there been any comparisions of heat dissipation and power consumption between the 130 & 90nm?

90nm PowerPCs are being used in the Xserves... I don't think there's much doubt about it

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/01/20040106170203.shtml

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/01/20040108050130.shtml

[arn]

Originally posted by iriejedi
Yes.... it is another rumor site - but www.MacOSrumors.com states, reports, writes, dreams, believes, feels.... that the 970FX can run at 2.6gig.


It's clear that MacOSRumors fabricates rumors.... which is why they aren't ever referenced.

arn

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by iriejedi
...www.MacOSrumors.com states, reports, writes, dreams, believes, feels.... that the 970FX can run at 2.6gig....


Just a word of warning, MacOSRumors.com has a very poor track record of accuracy and even of veracity. Take what's written there with a rather substantial grain of salt...

[Photorun]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Just a word of warning, MacOSRumors.com has a very poor track record of accuracy and even of veracity. Take what's written there with a rather substantial grain of salt...

Yep, used to be the go-to site, now it's the go-to get a laugh site.

[yoman]

Originally posted by Laslo Panaflex
Well aren't the .90 chips already confirmed? They are in the G5 Xserves Who care what the official chip name is, maybe thats just me, but I don't care what the official chip name is as long as it is faster.

I couldn't agree more.

[Lanbrown]

Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Arn,

If the 90nm 970's are being used in the Xserve, why hasn't Apple made a bigger deal of it? You'd think they'd want everyone to know..

And have there been any comparisions of heat dissipation and power consumption between the 130 & 90nm?

Because you can't buy a G5 Xserve today, you can order one but the estimated ship time is 6 to 8 weeks. If Apple touted it (90-nm), then the PM crowd would be saying what about us? Where's the faster clock speed? Very soon you will see Apple announce faster G5’s.

[makkystyle]

Originally posted by iriejedi
I'm an optimist so I'm chosing to hold on to the hope that the new G5 will top out there and not stop with a small 0.4 upgrade!

Yeah, what's with this 20% increase in power crap!!! ;)

[isgoed]

Originally posted by Laslo Panaflex
Well aren't the .90 chips already confirmed? They are in the G5 Xserves Who care what the official chip name is, maybe thats just me, but I don't care what the official chip name is as long as it is faster.
the 90nm chips in the XServe don't have to be the same chip as the 970FX. The XServe chip is just a scale down of the first 970. The 970FX may have all new features like busspeed stepping, better heat dissapation, more L2 cache, DDR533 support, integrated memory controller and higher FBS support.

Originally posted by Sun Baked
Cool the AI pic...

http://www.appleinsider.com/images/momentum90.gif

Looks a lot like a HACKED version of the Momentum PPC 970 Eval Board pic that was posted before on this site.

http://www.970eval.com/BlockDiagram_970.html

What are you saying?

That it is a fake?

Please explain what you mean.

Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Well, Steve said something along the line of 3GHz by the end of next year, so they've got almost 12 months to meet that goal. 2.4GHz (a real 2,4, not the overclocked mess of the "1.42GHz" G4) would be a logical step.

If the 65nm sampling of the 9X0 cips are true, then Apple may announce 3GHz in 11 months or so, then ship a few months after that..
I Don't think we'll see 65nm in macs for at least 2 years. I guess that that is the average time between scaledows. The Power5 by itself has a design that can reach high clockspeeds. I think that the 980 which incorporates that design will reach the 3Ghz with ease on 90nm.

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by mkaake
could have sworn he said in one year, not by the end of next year.... so you're looking for 3 ghz around june/july/august/september, depending on when things start shipping ;)

matt

You are correct, sir! Yes! (insert voice of Ed McMahon)

[csubear]

Here is what i think steve will anouce new G5 at the end of this month or feb. I think that they have them right now, or very soon. Maybe they are trying to sell there current powermac stock out first? I also think that when people get there Xserve G5 it will be faster than 2 Ghz. Well maybe not... but it depends on heat issues. Well my 2 cents

[Rustus Maximus]

Apple will announce speed bumped g5's with Superbowl Ad. The Panthers, driven into a frenzy by the surprise announcement will win the Superbowl 970 - 0.

:cool:

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by isgoed
What are you saying?

That it is a fake?

Please explain what you mean. That they look like the same picture, nothing else has changed in the block diagram but to add 970FX.

Plus if you click and go to Momentums home page, the products are named after cats -- while the eval board is not named on the eval board site.

---

There is breakdown of a dual G5 on the site -- www.970eval.com -- down at the bottom pics 1 to 13

[McMike]

Originally posted by Lanbrown
Because you can't buy a G5 Xserve today, you can order one but the estimated ship time is 6 to 8 weeks. If Apple touted it (90-nm), then the PM crowd would be saying what about us? Where's the faster clock speed? Very soon you will see Apple announce faster G5’s.

Yeah, but hasn't the delay the same cause as the G5 towers had? Meaning the upgrade of the 'Big Mac' to xserves. I could swear there were rumors about it.

Just a thought

[wordmunger]

Originally posted by Rustus Maximus
The Panthers, driven into a frenzy by the surprise announcement will win the Superbowl 970 - 0.



Heck, I'd settle for 97-0. Or even 9-7. Any of the above would send all of Charlotte into a frenzy.

However, it will take a G5 powerbook to set me personally into a frenzy, backed by a credit card :)

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Arn,

If the 90nm 970's are being used in the Xserve, why hasn't Apple made a bigger deal of it? You'd think they'd want everyone to know..

And have there been any comparisions of heat dissipation and power consumption between the 130 & 90nm?

The people who are looking at the XServe will see it is using 90nm process 970's. Generally, this is a secondary number. Primary numbers, which are more prominently advertised, are processor speed/efficiency (as shown in benchmarks like SPEC) and heat dissipation.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Apparently, you're all right! Steve's Statement (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=6904)

Well, then they've got 6 months (or 12 if you take into when it actually ships)
:p

Wasn't there some comment made last late-Summer about the end of August being the "ship-before" date on 3GHz?

Regardless, Steve would love more than anything to beat his "within a year" comment by a couple of months ... kind of like that little smile he got talking about how iTMS beat the 6-month goal in the first week and the 1-year goal in six months.

[BenRoethig]

Anyone else notice the use of 500mhz PC-4000 memory in that diagram?

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by BenRoethig
Anyone else notice the use of 500mhz PC-4000 memory in that diagram? I only see DDR400 Memory, which does not show in the AI pic.

That 500MHz (1GHz DDR) is the elastic bus (FSB) -- which would indicate a 2.0GHz processor at 2x multiplier.

So it's not a diagram of a 2.4GHz PPC970 -- even a 3x multiplier would mean a slower bus -- and they're integers not .5 increments on the multiplier (i think).

[MongoTheGeek]

Originally posted by Photorun
Yep, used to be the go-to site, now it's the go-to get a laugh site.
No
The goto get a laugh site is and was As the Apple Turns.

[MongoTheGeek]

Originally posted by maradong
those 2.4 ghz remember me of the 2.3 ghz thingy on the apple site. regarding the xserve g5, where the alt text of the images says 2.3 ghz.
Perhaps 2.4 ghz is the theoretical limit, and therefore they are only running them @_2.3 ? :p

The alt text for the XServe on the bottom of www.apple.com says 2.3 GHz.

[deepkid]

Originally posted by MongoTheGeek
The alt text for the XServe on the bottom of www.apple.com says 2.3 GHz.

Right you are!

http://chrisgraydeep.com/2.3Ghz.gif

[ThomasJefferson]

Originally posted by wordmunger
Heck, I'd settle for 97-0. Or even 9-7. Any of the above would send all of Charlotte into a frenzy.


We are already in a frenzy. I live 15 miles south of Charlotte. The town has gone bonkers.

[ThomasJefferson]

Originally posted by MongoTheGeek
No
The goto get a laugh site is and was As the Apple Turns.

Far worse than macosrumors was the short and spastic history of MacWhispers. MW was in a class all by itself.

Now ... let me just adjust my MacDesk here and get some work done ...

[invaLPsion]

I hope the new G5s come out soon because I just ordered a new LCD in the expectation of them coming out in a week or less.

[dho]

Steve stated at wwdc it would be one year from then that they reached 3 GHZ. But a few months later he retracted and said 12 months after the g5s were actually shipping.

just to clarify

[brentski]

http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54/$file/PPC_QRG_01-21-04.pdf


I am sure all of you macheads have already seen this document from IBM nothing too exciting other than the official word on the 970FX with a bus speed of 1.1.

Other interesting note is the 2.0 ghz and beyond statement.

This pdf was released 1/21/04

[Gyroscope]

Some people make fun of macosrumors.com site but they all forget that those guys were first to report about G5 not coming from Motorola and being stripped down version of Power4.

These guys are no better/worse than other rumors sites.


Here's link on this site.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/07/20020713205609.shtml

[Sun Baked]

This should help, since the Momentum pic was a little thin on info.

Still not much more help, besides saying the 90nm is the 970FX.

And don't get too excited about PowerBooks yet, while the typical Power is down Max is still high -- along with the higher temp spec -- at 2.0GHz.

Does Open the door a bit more for the low clocked iMac or PowerBook though.

If you want the whole pdf -- IBM PPC Quick Reference Guide 1-21-04 (http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54/$file/PPC_QRG_01-21-04.pdf)

[MacWhispers]

Originally posted by ThomasJefferson
... history of MacWhispers. MW was in a class all by itself.

Thank you! :)

[arn]

Originally posted by Gyroscope
Some people make fun of macosrumors.com site but they all forget that those guys were first to report about G5 not coming from Motorola and being stripped down version of Power4.


There's no question that they used to be a "real" rumor site.

But recently, they have been known to simply make up interesting-sounding rumors based on circulating gossip... which brings their credibility down to below zero.

arn

[lind0834]

Originally posted by MongoTheGeek
No
The goto get a laugh site is and was As the Apple Turns.

What about The Crazy Apple Rumors Site?
I find it's more laughable material, while AppleTurns is more uncontrollable grinning material.

[seelab]

"The 970FX, meanwhile, consumes a mere 12.3W at 1.4GHz, paving the way for PowerBook G5s. That figure is comparable to the 7.5W a 1GHz consumption of the G4-class Motorola MPC7447 that drives the current PowerBook G4s. The 970FX's SpeedStep-style PowerTune technology will help too."
http://theregister.co.uk/content/39/35057.html


YES ! :)

[j_maddison]

I hate to point out the obvious but most of the rumors on this site never come to fruition. I'm of the opinion that macosrumors is as accurate as any other site. I'm pretty sure that alot of the rumors on this site are there just to keep our interest going until something juicy comes along.

Regardless, i quite like the forums on this rumor site and im just sure that we all wish that more of the rumors on any site turned ou to be accurate.

jason

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by j_maddison
I hate to point out the obvious but most of the rumors on this site never come to fruition. I'm of the opinion that macosrumors is as accurate as any other site. I'm pretty sure that alot of the rumors on this site are there just to keep our interest going until something juicy comes along.


well, one thing about MacRumors is that there is a rumors round up after big events/end of year. This site might get some rumors that others don't, but in general think of it as a clearing house for all rumors found on all the sites.

Much of it can be speculation and in some cases intentional falsehood - without setting probabilities to any one rumor - many times its left the reader to decide whether or not to believe them.

D

[stockscalper]

The 970FX does draw only 12.3 watts of power, but what hasn't been mentioned is that it has automatic speed cycle reduction processing which means the cpu automatically lowers the mhz if nothing heavy is being run thereby reducing the wattage being drawn even further. This chip is ideal for use in a Powerbook. I've been saying all along that the .90 micron chip would be the first in a PB. BTW, Intel's new .90 chip draws 100 watts! :confused: You just thought the G5 ran hot; any computer running Prescott will take 200 fans to cool it and be a big as the QEII :D

[johnnyjibbs]

What quantities are we looking at here?

Do they have enough of these chips to supply 2.4GHz ones in the PowerMacs and 1.4 or 1.6GHz ones in the PowerBooks?

I'd have thought the PowerMacs would be updated before the PowerBooks. Apple may have to pick and choose due to supply issues.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by stockscalper
I've been saying all along that the .90 micron chip would be the first in a PB.

Not to be too nit-picky, but I don't think you mean .90 micron. The 970 is on a .13 micron process. In other words, a 130 nanometer (nm) process. A .90 micron process would be a 900 nm process, a factor of 10 larger than the 90 nm process that the 970FX is on. ;)

[PPCTech]

If you read the PPC Product Brochure, there is no indication that 2.4GHz will be available anytime soon, that is pure speculation. What is not speculation is the fact that this brochure confirms 2.2GHz PPC 970FX being available NOW. Read page nine:

http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54/$file/PPC_QRG_01-21-04.pdf

You will notice that the BUS speed listed is 1.1GHz, and since the PPC 970 line works on a 2:1 ratio, that signifies that the 2.2GHz is ready to go now.

Yes, the 2.4GHz+ are probably sampling, but don't be holding your breath for them until March/April.

-PPCTech

[Henriok]

Originally posted by PPCTech
If you read the PPC Product Brochure, there is no indication that 2.4GHz will be available anytime soon, that is pure speculation. Notice also that IBM didn't recognize the 2 GHz part of regular 970 until waaay after Apple introduced them.

[stockscalper]

The 970FX is currently being used in the G5 XServe is it not? If so then they are already in the manufacturing process. I still believe it will be some time before they make themselves into a Powerbook - maybe 4th QTR or later (MacBidouille says Mar o5). Look for dual 1.25 G4's in the meantime.

[PPCTech]

True to a point,

But since the PPC 970 was a brand new CPU line from IBM, very little was known in general, and most of the information coming out was saying 1.4-1.8 was max you would see, which probably totally depended on IBM bin rate of the new CPU itself.

Remember, we were also supposed to see the .13um versions of the PPC 970 all the way up to 2.6 before the 90nm process CPU's even became available, suggesting that there could have been trouble ramping up the CPU higher than expected, and the quick fix of transitioning to 90nm was their fix to get the PPC 970 line moving up again, but then again it could have just all been about economics.

Now that the PPC 970 isn't a "new" product, and more OEM's are picking up the CPU for various applications, you would think if there were significantly higher clocked PPC 970FX's floating around, you would have heard something by now about them. I am guessing that it will be a few more months until IBM will start pushing 2.4+ out the door, simply because the move to 90nm process is obviously a difficult one.

Intel for example having problem pushing the Prescott out on time, along with massive leakage resulting in a massive 103 watts of heat.

AMD has yet to move to 90nm, as TheInquirer has reported that they have been having trouble transitioning to 90nm as well (and is the same process that IBM is using because they are in a Cross Licensing agreement.)

I firmly believe 2.2GHz PPC 970FX are out now and limited supply of 2.4+ are even in Apple's hands.

And even if Apple did announce a 2.4+ PowerMac G5 revision in the next few days, you still won't see them ship until March/April... much as they did with the initial batch of G5's which were supposed to ship in August.

I ordered my Dual G5 shortly after their announcement, and didn't receive it until 2 1/2 months later.

-PPCTech

[PPCTech]

Yes stockscalper,

The PPC 970FX (90nm version of the PPC 970) is currently in the Xserve at 2.0GHz.

My question is, if Steve wants to hit the 3GHz marker by mid-summer, they need to put a revision out fast. If Apple was ready now to put out a new revision, why would they totally miss the MacWorld SF to announce such a huge product? Is waiting for the 20 year of the Mac really that big of a deal?

I don't believe so.... I believe that IBM being the first producer of 90nm parts, made a successful change to the new process, but has not totally refined it to super high clock speeds yet, and it will be a few more months before they make a new batch that truly shine and hit the 2.4GHz+ mark.

-PPCTech

[Henriok]

Originally posted by PPCTech
Remember, we were also supposed to see the .13um versions of the PPC 970 all the way up to 2.6 before the 90nm process CPU's even became available
No, I have seen no documents stating that. All I have seen it that IBM have stated that the 970 processors would reach 2.5+ GHz, with no mentioning of any fabrication process. I have always interpreted that they'd reach the higher clocks at a later point on a new fab.. ie 90 nm.

Originally posted by PPCTech
Now that the PPC 970 isn't a "new" product, and more OEM's are picking up the CPU for various applications, you would think if there were significantly higher clocked PPC 970FX's floating around, you would have heard something by now about them.
I don't know about that. Lot of information of this type is covered by heavy NDAs, which probably have been lifted now. If you look at Apple's relationship with Motorola, Apple have always been able to get procesosrs clocked way higher than what Motorola have had available to ordinairy customers. Apple getting 1.42 GHz parts when Moto them selves only says 1 GHz.

Originally posted by PPCTech
the move to 90nm process is obviously a difficult one.

Intel for example having problem pushing the Prescott out on time, along with massive leakage resulting in a massive 103 watts of heat.

AMD has yet to move to 90nm, as TheInquirer has reported that they have been having trouble transitioning to 90nm as well (and is the same process that IBM is using because they are in a Cross Licensing agreement.)The troubles Intel are facing are completely different from what IBM and Moto are facing. IBM and AMD are using mature SOI technology to counteract the very thing Intel is struggling with, and the numbers that we've now seen with 970 concerning wattage suggest's that IBM's 90 nm fab is in VERY good health.

IBM's new facility in East Fishkill is very good, and built for making 90 nm parts and beyond. AMD's 130 nm fab was co-developed with Motorola and.. well.. it was developed with Motorola, nuff said. Even if they now have a licenced stuff from IBM they most certainly will lag IBM in deployment. And.. pushing for 90 nm in the summer isn't bad at all. AMD is in great shape AFAIK. Intel on the other hand must get their act together quickly. +100 W for a Prescott ain't cool at all.

Originally posted by PPCTech
I ordered my Dual G5 shortly after their announcement, and didn't receive it until 2 1/2 months later. I ordered my 2x2 the morning after the keynote and i received mine 3.5 months later.. you guys in the US are prioritized, don't we know it? :)

[Henriok]

Originally posted by PPCTech
My question is, if Steve wants to hit the 3GHz marker by mid-summer, they need to put a revision out fast. IBM won't reach 3 GHz with 970FX. Steve talked about "the next generation processor" and FX isn't next generation, its almost exactly the same, fabbed on a new process.

The "next generation" will be 975, and it is targeted at +3 GHz.

[PPCTech]

Henriok,
No, I have seen no documents stating that. All I have seen it that IBM have stated that the 970 processors would reach 2.5+ GHz, with no mentioning of any fabrication process. I have always interpreted that they'd reach the higher clocks at a later point on a new fab.. ie 90 nm.

In a press release from IBM themselves, which ArsTechnica posted, it said this:

http://www.arstechnica.com/news/posts/1046380113.html

The new IBM PowerPC 970 is the heart of the PowerPC Blade. It is based on the 64-Bit Power 4 architecture which is also used in the processors of the IBM eServer pSeries. The 64-bit microprozessor

Offers full symmetrical multi-processing

Has a high reliability (with parity L1, ECC L2 and parity checked system bus)

Is manufactured in the latest 0,13 micrometer Copper/SOI CMOS technology

Runs at frequences ranging from 1.8 GHz - 2.5 Ghz


By IBM claiming that the PPC on a .13um process hitting 2.5GHz, I mistyped and put 2.6GHz in my other post, I took it that they are infact transitioning quicker, or problems with the .13um process.


I don't know about that. Lot of information of this type is covered by heavy NDAs, which probably have been lifted now. If you look at Apple's relationship with Motorola, Apple have always been able to get procesosrs clocked way higher than what Motorola have had available to ordinairy customers. Apple getting 1.42 GHz parts when Moto them selves only says 1 GHz.

Moto themselves never targeted their CPU's beyond smaller embedded applications, and high end networking equipment OEM's. IBM on the other hand, are pushing their processors for various high end applications in computing. In their own workstations, servers, blades. As well as targeting outside smaller technology companies actively pushing Linux. Navigate through the IBM Microelectronics website to the December 2003 Journal, and see the long list of companies actively using PPC CPU's. With IBM, Apple, and lots of other small companies trying to push PPC, someone is gonna leak something somewhere, or new products were start surfacing right away if the were on the market.


The troubles Intel are facing are completely different from what IBM and Moto are facing. IBM and AMD are using mature SOI technology to counteract the very thing Intel is struggling with, and the numbers that we've now seen with 970 concerning wattage suggest's that IBM's 90 nm fab is in VERY good health.

IBM's new facility in East Fishkill is very good, and built for making 90 nm parts and beyond. AMD's 130 nm fab was co-developed with Motorola and.. well.. it was developed with Motorola, nuff said. Even if they now have a licenced stuff from IBM they most certainly will lag IBM in deployment. And.. pushing for 90 nm in the summer isn't bad at all. AMD is in great shape AFAIK. Intel on the other hand must get their act together quickly. +100 W for a Prescott ain't cool at all.


Yes, SOI is a proven concept that both AMD and IBM have used in their latest processor designs, but it doesn't matter how mature the process is, once you transition to a new smaller process, it takes time to perfect the design. Case and point, AMD released "Hammer" samples at .13um 8 months or so before it launched, and the highest speed they could demo was 800MHz, later they launched at 1.4, 1.6, and few weeks later 1.8 rolled out, at that time .13um was still new to AMD, and they had to pay IBM $45M to bail them out to fix their process problems with it. By the way, the .13um was not co-developed with Moto as you said, their .18 copper interconnect was co-developed with Moto.

With IBM moving to 90nm and being so successful with .13um, does not mean instantly they will be able to crank up the MHz, it will take time before the process is refined enough for them to push the clock rate much higher.

I guess I am just worried as to the reason IBM made such a quick transition to 90nm, and that worried me that the .13um process for the 970 was leading to major problems.


The "next generation" will be 975, and it is targeted at +3 GHz.

Again, the naming scheme is still unconfirmed, and speculation at this part.

-PPCTech

[wms121]

....macosrumors had a list ..that went up to the PowerPC 990 and the POWER 8.

This still validates my earlier rumor that DoD has a POWER 12 and it's a optical chip.

The POWER 8 was said to be at 32nm and 15 GHz.

POWER 12 optical with SSOI substrate was in the 20-25 GHz range, but not clear on the wafer scale.

12.5 nm?

Maybe that's why my "a51 buddy" called it a ..ahem.."P12".

<---meet me at www.treknology.org where I can answer those "warp drive questions" you guys have..and no one will laugh.

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by wms121
....macosrumors had a list ..that went up to the PowerPC 990 and the POWER 8.

This still validates my earlier rumor that DoD has a POWER 12 and it's a optical chip. One more time MacOSrumors is a slightly more reliable site for you Mac Rumor dollar than Mad Magazine.

So how does it validate the POWER 12?

[Ge4-ce]

If Apple would announce G5's at 2.2 Ghz, it would be a disaster! That's only a 10% speed increase!! If you save the money to buy a middle system and spend it to extra RAM you gain more speed!!!

No, they will have to release a 2.4 GHz at LEAST! This device also has to last until June or July before they announce the 3 Ghz! Nobody will buy a 2.2 Ghz when you can buy a 3 Ghz only half a year later.. (ok, they will sell it, but...) the jump is too big!

and Apple has never updated PowerMacs that soon... always at least 3 or 4 months, and mostly... half a year between updates!

I'm still hoping for a 2.6 though... (I've decided to buy the next powermac.. whatever it is...) Unless it's a 2.2 Ghz.. Then I'll wait!

And I would be angry.. but hell.. I'll live..

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by PPCTech
If you read the PPC Product Brochure, there is no indication that 2.4GHz will be available anytime soon, that is pure speculation. What is not speculation is the fact that this brochure confirms 2.2GHz PPC 970FX being available NOW. Read page nine:

http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54/$file/PPC_QRG_01-21-04.pdf

You will notice that the BUS speed listed is 1.1GHz, and since the PPC 970 line works on a 2:1 ratio, that signifies that the 2.2GHz is ready to go now.

Yes, the 2.4GHz+ are probably sampling, but don't be holding your breath for them until March/April.

-PPCTech

Agreed. Supportedby theimagepostedtothisthread of PowerPC 970 & 970FX Processors specpage.

Chip name 970-1.8 970FX-2.0 970FX-2.2
SPECint2000 828 890 979
Dhrystone 2.1 7584 5800 6380
Typ Power 51W 24.5W 27W

Rocketman

Deliver my Powerbook G5 please.

[yamabushi]

2.4 won't have nearly the same impact in March or April as it would have today. If they have to wait that long for 2.4 then the 2.2 better start shipping soon. The 2.0 is old news.

[wms121]

..this was from a "old associate of mine"..who worked for a "EMP/TEMPEST" vendor "'in the desert...'"..ahem..

They needed power convertors that might see megajoule pulse behavior over a interconnected grid. Their "EMP signature" was..
(ahem)..very nonstandard..and fragile.

He mentioned that the IBM rep he (sort of) knew..had carried "POWER6 opti-prototypes" at very high clock speeds. That
IBM was considering using the "architecture" for the "POWER 12" and beyond..in that the binding process had unique thermal qualities (for low-temp chips that is).

I checked to see what type of "optical chip" IBM might be using and found references to a Japanese plant doing Si-Nitride and
fabric opti-switch network processors. I could post the URL's again..but the macosrumors article was the first I had heard of working 32nm geometries..and companion devices.

It's the architecture that is significant...these "desert people" needed "quantum-computing" capable interfaces...256-bit codes and possible 1024 bit emulators in the support ware.

They must have had "something" they needed to talk to real bad.

<<<-hiding under the bed with a flashlight