I think Windows on the Mac and virtualization is worthless for a home comp.

[nando2323]

I am a system admin at a 600+ employees company with all windows and some linux (VMWare ESX 3.x). I am in charge of all our SQL servers (6 MS SQL 2005) and Backup servers running Windows.

I converted to Apple last August when I purchased my 24" iMac. I find no need what so ever to run bootcamp or fusion or any other virtualization software on my mac. I even went as far as configuring bootcamp on my iMac just to erase it after 2 hours.

OS X either has everything built in or there are windows equivalent programs that are IMO better then their windows counterparts. Remember now I am speaking from a home computing perspective not hardcore gaming/business point of view. For home computing I think the virtualization software is a waste of resources. OS X is such a powerful OS and there are hundreds of thousands of programs out there that will pretty much satisfy your every need.

[a456]

Yes, but it is very useful for testing websites on IE for the small start-up.

[Eidorian]

I'll keep trying to get OS X to run those .exe files then. :rolleyes:

[nando2323]

I'll keep trying to get OS X to run those .exe files then. :rolleyes:

What exe files do you need to run?

[mgridgaway]

Often, there are many programs you'll only use once or twice that are Windows exclusive. I keep a partition around to update my phone's firmware, or play the occasional game, but that's about it.

[Eidorian]

What exe files do you need to run?I'm not going to go as far as to list all the games I've acquired over the years.

For the most part its Handbrake and Office. chobimaru is quite nice at 3.0 GHz when I need it.

[nando2323]

I'm not going to go as far as to list all the games I've acquired over the years.

For the most part its Handbrake and Office.

Handbrake and Office EXE's?

[mkrishnan]

What exe files do you need to run?

I think antiretroviral medications are useless because I don't have HIV. :confused:

Seriously... I love that you're trying to help other people see how much they can get done on OS X, but... if people want to virtualize and/or have a use for virtualization at home, is it really necessary to start a thread to criticize them?

[Eidorian]

Handbrake and Office EXE's?Do you really, really want me to list all the games for Windows that I have. :eek:

I'm not going to pick MacHomeworld if I want to relive the 1999 Game of the Year.

[a456]

Remember the point of Bootcamp is to let Windows user switch gradually and make them brave enough to make the leap while maintaining a safety net. If they find after the switch that they don't need Windows, like you, then great.

[yippy]

I think there are people with different needs, wants, desires and abilities in this world. Not your, nor anyone, can be representative of everyone.

And two counterpoints: games, quicken

[Shagrat]

What exe files do you need to run?

Well, i needed to upgrade the firmware on my girlfriend's Parrot Blutooth hands-free car phone kit, and on her 8310 Blackberry, cause there was a problem with one or the other, meaning they wouldn't pair.

Rim don't offer a Mac desktop manager to allow re-install of the BBcod files,
and PArrot don't offer a Mac version of their Btooth updater.

Answer, run XP in VMWare, and now have updated both...

I'm sure thater are other examples.

I DO notice, that RIM are talking about providing a preoper Mac tool for the above, but we can't wait for another 3 months.

[Macloven]

I strongly doubt that anyone would go to the trouble of loading bootcamp/Windows etc if they didn't find a need for it. Sure there are people that like to tinker, but for the most part, people acquire things when they need them.

Great that the OP can do without, but there are so many reasons why home users might need windows, even if just to transition their core needs. The line between home and business use has become pretty blurry for many people and it's doubtful many machines don't do double duty.

No way I can live without Windows until the business programs switch over, but for basic "home" use I'm usually in OS X mainly because the battery lasts longer v. in boot camp. My son (14 y/o)uses my MBP quite a bit, and he bounces between both os's depending on his needs too.

Having the choice is great...ymmv.

Mark

[sushi]

Running Windows via VMWare or Parallels allows me to run Office 2003 or 2007 which is need for instructing others on the use of these office suites. Unfortunately, the Mac versions don't look or work the same.

I also run some other programs that are not available for the Mac.

Additionally, there are some exe apps out there that are pure fun that won't run under the Mac OS.

However, for the most part, most everything one needs is available on the Mac. I like the flexibility of being able to choose. And now, instead of carrying two laptops (PC and Mac), with the Intel based MBPs I can carry just one laptop which is very nice for me.

[nando2323]

Do you really, really want me to list all the games for Windows that I have. :eek:

I'm not going to pick MacHomeworld if I want to relive the 1999 Game of the Year.

You said Handbrake and Office and I use both of those programs in their OS X versions everyday.

[Eidorian]

You said Handbrake and Office and I use both of those programs in their OS X versions everyday.Why would I run HandBrake on my Macbook and fry it when I have my quad core desktop?

I'd love to run Office 2008 solely but it doesn't handle all the documents that I get.

Do you really want me to list all the games I have? Not to mention the wonderful EMR software I need to run.

[nando2323]

I don't know but I guess it's just me. I think that by putting windows on my mac I will taint it some how. To me the whole mac experience is a learning one. If I am going to buy a mac just to get home and throw Windows on it then just why not just buy a Windows PC then. Virtualization for businesses is a great thing I just think that for regular everyday home use it is just a waste of money and resources again this is my personal feel about it that's all. I just think as being a power user like I am OS X has plenty of options, that I feel Windows is not necessary.

[Eidorian]

I don't know but I guess it's just me. I think that by putting windows on my mac I will taint it some how. To me the whole mac experience is a learning one. If I am going to buy a mac just to get home and throw Windows on it then just why not just buy a Windows PC then. Virtualization for businesses is a great thing I just think that for regular everyday home use it is just a waste of money and resources again this is my personal feel about it that's all. I just think as being a power user like I am OS X has plenty of options, that I feel Windows is not necessary.It's just an operating system. I use OS X and Windows because they let me run the applications that I need to run. Sadly I can't just pick one operating system since I'd miss out on being able to get my work done and relaxing with some games or nostalgia.

I'd be out of a job if I didn't maintain my application knowledge and problem solving skills on the Windows side. Keep in mind it's very good to maintain problem solving skills in general.

[nando2323]

Why would I run HandBrake on my Macbook and fry it when I have my quad core desktop?

I'd love to run Office 2008 solely but it doesn't handle all the documents that I get.

Do you really want me to list all the games I have? Not to mention the wonderful EMR software I need to run.

You would be obviously exempt from this since you have multiple desktops not everyone does and I am willing to bet that it's a very small minority that do. Also I stated in my original post that games and business stuff were the only other things I would leave out.

[Eidorian]

You would be obviously exempt from this since you have multiple desktops not everyone does and I am willing to bet that it's a very small minority that do. Also I stated in my original post that games and business stuff were the only other things I would leave out.I was only willing to give Apple another $1,000 on my Macbook after discounts.

My desktop came in around $600 last year. I wasn't going to spend $2,000 on a MacBook Pro to have OS X and "game" on a laptop.

I don't see any budget quad core laptops on the market either. I spent my money on leveraging the hardware that I could get for the price on the Windows side. My processor was only $179 for a quad core. I have an adequate cooling system as well that lets me hit 3.0 GHz as well.

[nando2323]

I was only willing to give Apple another $1,000 on my Macbook after discounts.

My desktop came in around $600 last year. I wasn't going to spend $2,000 on a MacBook Pro to have OS X and "game" on a laptop.

I don't see any budget quad core laptops on the market either. I spent my money on leveraging the hardware that I could get for the price on the Windows side. My processor was only $179 for a quad core. I have an adequate cooling system as well that lets me hit 3.0 GHz as well.

Again you are not in the norm. Regular Joe Shmo that goes to Best Buy to buy computers, they are most likely 90% of computer shoppers out there are not custom building their PC's. Of course I or a lot of people can custom build a PC that will be cheaper then any Apple or Dell or what ever. But that is not the norm we are a minority believe it or not.

[Eidorian]

Again you are not in the norm. Regular Joe Shmo that goes to Best Buy to buy computers, they are most likely 90% of computer shoppers out there are not custom building their PC's. Of course I or a lot of people can custom build a PC that will be cheaper then any Apple or Dell or what ever. But that is not the norm we are a minority believe it or not.What's wrong with Joe Schmo using virtualization then?

[xlii]

When Apple came out with bootcamp... they hit a homerun. Now a windows user couldn't say... "if I switch to a mac, I won't be able to run all the windows software I bought over the years." It is a big selling point to the switchers... most of whom don't know as much as you do... being in the IT profession.

[nando2323]

When Apple came out with bootcamp... they hit a homerun. Now a windows user couldn't say... "if I switch to a mac, I won't be able to run all the windows software I bought over the years." It is a big selling point to the switchers... most of whom don't know as much as you do... being in the IT profession.

Very true because that was the same thing I thought when I first switched over I am not arguing that at all. But after switching and seeing how everything just worked and greatly at that, I have not looked back since. Obviously I still have my Dell at work only because I have to have it as a company policy of all Dell crap.

[GimmeSlack12]

I agree with the OP that OS X is a powerful OS that really does have anything and everything you could want (gaming is not included in this cause Macs don't do games, cause there aren't any, unless you want to play Maelstrom in which I will destroy anyone at. Still).

Though I cannot endorse Office for Mac, it really sucks. I mean, really isn't good. What I'm trying to say is its terrible.

[Keleko]

Joe Schmo wants to watch a Netflix streaming movie. Joe finds out it works only in Windows. Joe sees he can get a program to virtualize Windows on his Mac so he doesn't have to reboot to Windows or use a separate computer just for Netflix. Joe is now happy he can watch his streamed movie from while still running OS X.

That's my main reason for Windows virtualization. It isn't gaming or office work. I use Bootcamp for games that I can't run in OS X in some way (Crossover or natively). I used to use virtualization more, but I did away with all but the netflix part by getting Mac native versions of the programs I needed in Windows (Quickbooks being the main one).

I can't say how many people watch Netflix streaming, but Netflix is pretty popular even with the non-techie crowd, and streaming from them is pretty easy.

[nando2323]

Joe Schmo wants to watch a Netflix streaming movie. Joe finds out it works only in Windows. Joe sees he can get a program to virtualize Windows on his Mac so he doesn't have to reboot to Windows or use a separate computer just for Netflix. Joe is now happy he can watch his streamed movie from while still running OS X.

That's my main reason for Windows virtualization. It isn't gaming or office work. I use Bootcamp for games that I can't run in OS X in some way (Crossover or natively). I used to use virtualization more, but I did away with all but the netflix part by getting Mac native versions of the programs I needed in Windows (Quickbooks being the main one).

I can't say how many people watch Netflix streaming, but Netflix is pretty popular even with the non-techie crowd, and streaming from them is pretty easy.

That is one issue with OS X I agree but I at least don't see many people watching a movie on a computer, the screen is too small and it's just not practical I would rather watch it on a TV, and I can still use my comp to do other things at the same time. But to each his own, I do understand that there are people out there that do watch movies on their computers but I think they are a minority. Plus you won't need that service anymore at least I won't since I own an XBOX360 and I will be watching those on my 42" anyhow come November.

[dXTC]

I use XP via Boot Camp for two things:


My workplace hasn't updated to pcAnywhere version 12 (the first one that has a OS X client) yet so I can VPN in when on-call. I'm working on this though...
I have considerable money and creative work invested in Cakewalk SONAR, a Windows-only pro audio app. So I can't just drop it for Logic Studio or Pro Tools.


If Twelve Tone Systems ever ports Cakewalk to the Mac, I'd get rid of my Boot Camp partition in short order. Until then, it's something of a necessary evil for me.

[maccompaq]

I use Leopard on a Mac and XP on a PC. All my computers have MS Office and Photoshop in their respective versions. For me, it does not make much difference which OS I am using. They both get the job done, although it works a little better on the Mac. I must admit that burning CDs and DVDs works better on a Mac.

[nanofrog]

I use software that doesn't have an OS X equivalent, so windows is mandatory. Not only is the Mac Pro less expensive for an equivalent PC, if one considers the expense of a separate Mac and PC, particularly of similar specs, it's not financially viable.

[ppnkg]

And two counterpoints: games, quicken


quite true, I got bootcamp/windows for the occasional game.

Btw, the macbook is also an excellent windows laptop :D

[Macmonter]

I think Windows on the mac and virtualization is worthless on a home comp.

Well, nando2323, you sure made me think back on why I spent $240 extra to put Parallels and XP on my $3,000 Mac Pro! Gee! I even spent another $130 later to put Home Office on the XP side. That's 350 bucks! Was I crazy! I'm sure you think I was!

Initially, I made the choice to go X10 and XP because I was too timid to make a cold-turkey switch to Mac after 8 years of using Windows exclusively at work and at home. Besides, I felt that it was a Windows' world, and I wasn't confident (as you apparently are) that the Mac would meet all my computer needs now or in the future. I'm semi-retired and now perform some work for my employer at home. Much of the work is updating heavily formatted MS Word documents that were intended for mass printing. When I first opened one of these documents in Pages which I expected would retain the original's appearance, I was very disappointed. Not wanting to trust these important documents to a Mac version of Office, I bought the Windows version which displays the documents in their native format making my updating task much more efficient. Would the Mac Office version have been as effective? I don't know or care now, because the $130 Windows Home Office bought me peace of mind.

Oh, and then there is the problem I described in a digital photography thread in Mac Forum about iPhoto not being able to display b/w images scanned with a gray scale profile. It seems iPhoto will only display images having a color profile even if its b/w. Windows Image Viewer has no problem displaying b/w profiled images. Since I have no desire to spend the time to rescan dozens of my old b/w negatives that displayed nicely on my old PC, I now have them filed in an XP folder on my Mac. I would be happier if my b/w could be filed with my color images in iPhoto, but iPhoto can't do it!

I am by no means sorry about buying a Mac. I consider X10 much better than any Windows OS, Safari better than IE, Mail better than Outlook Express and iPhoto better at image archiving than what Windows has to offer.

Was I crazy to run Windows on my Mac? I don't think so! Having the best of both OS has given me the flexibility in doing my computer tasks and the assurance that I'm using the best tools available for those tasks. $350 well spent!

[dimme]

I have boot camp on my computer and use it once a month or so when I am board. For a home computer it is too much work to keep 2 OS up to date.

[ayeying]

the OP's opinion is that OSX has similar/better applications for the same uses as those of the windows counterparts.

However, they're not ALL similar or better.

My dad's iMac runs both OSX and Windows because he uses programs in windows that even though has a counterpart in OSX, he still prefers to use them in Windows. Thats his choice, he uses it for as a Home Computer, the iMac is his sole system and there's nothing wrong with it.

if you can use OSX solely and not use any windows or virtualization, thats great, but everyone has their own methods of using their system.

[DoFoT9]

well for me personally i NEED virtualisation...

my uni FORCES us to use programs that are winblows only, last semester i had an assignment that made virtual 6800 code, we had to develop it yada yada, this semester we have to use MS project and a few other crappy MS programs to make DFD's etcetc.

so yea i kinda need it, i would rather not because it chews my HD space but u know...

[Phil A.]

I sort of agree with the OP, but think it could have been worded better to avoid implying people who use virtualization are idiots ;)
My wife and daughter don't have virtualization on their Macs and don't need windows at all. I do have Fusion on my iMac and MBA, but use it solely for running Visual Studio. I also have Fusion on my Mac Pro but there it's running a Subversion Appliance under Linux ('cos I was too lazy to set it up natively in OSX :) )
A lot of people can use OS X exclusively and a lot of people can't. The great thing with Bootcamp and Virtualization is you have the choice :D

[drummerlondonw3]

Why would I run HandBrake on my Macbook and fry it when I have my quad core desktop?

I'd love to run Office 2008 solely but it doesn't handle all the documents that I get.
.

Personally I run Excel at work intensively. I am giving up my thinkpad now and I will run excel in bootcamp and/or parallels

For me not having to relearn the nuisances of an excel version and a drop in speed is not worth it for me. it might seem silly but that could in real terms represent a 10% drop in productivity
Oh and also if you find a good version of Access for Mac please let me know:rolleyes::rolleyes:

No windows is not the superior OS but it is the most popular and as long as that's the case Windows will be getting versions of software that wont be released on mac os x

d:apple:

[odinsride]

I use VMware for Google Chrome, and the old version of AIM for windows, which supports photo and audio sharing through Direct IM

[nando2323]

I use VMware for Google Chrome

Chrome on OS X maybe give it a try Chrome (http://www.codeweavers.com/services/ports/chromium/)

...and the old version of AIM for windows, which supports photo and audio sharing through Direct IM

Adium doesn't do this in OS X?

[nando2323]

I have boot camp on my computer and use it once a month or so when I am board. For a home computer it is too much work to keep 2 OS up to date.

This is what I am talking about I think for the basic home user it is not necessary and should not even be a selling point. To me it would confuse them even more to have to load another OS onto their Macs and have to deal with that. It is just not practical.

[odinsride]

Chrome on OS X maybe give it a try Chrome (http://www.codeweavers.com/services/ports/chromium/)


My sources tell me Google Chrome for OS X should be coming 'soon'. I'll just wait until then :)

Adium doesn't do this in OS X?

Not in the same way that AIM 5.9 does. Adium only supports images from my experiences (not sounds), and establishing a direct connection with people is often very hit or miss.

[dimme]

The hassle I have with running more that one OS is that you spend more time keeping the OS's up to date and less time using the computer. I have a MBP with boot camp with I boot into every few weeks I usall have to update windows AVS and so on before I use the computer.