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MacRumors
Jan 23, 2004, 01:47 PM
ThinkSecret provides (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/bostonexpo.html) an update to the MacWorld Boston IDG-Apple showdown.

In mid 2002, reports began emerging (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/07/20020731184531.shtml) that IDG was considering moving the summer MacWorld back to Boston from New York City, citing rising costs. The move was met with resistance from Apple (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/10/20021017120834.shtml), who announced they would not be attending the Boston expo.

The ThinkSecret report indicates things have not changed much in either side's position... and without Apple's presence, there IDG appears to be facing significant hurdles in recruiting vendors to exhibit at the Expo.

Two exhibitors told Think Secret that they were told by IDG World Expo that for the show to happen it would need at least 100 exhibitors to sign up. IDG World Expo is refusing to say how many companies have signed up to exhibit in Boston, but one independent source with access to data told Think Secret the number at present was "less than 30."


According to the site, Apple may further revamp the World Wide Developers Conference (WWDC) with a more of a consumer focus -- possibly providing live web coverage for the developer's conference which is scheduled in late July.

jimjiminyjim
Jan 23, 2004, 01:57 PM
I imagine no one has posted on this article yet as there is nothing good to say about Apple on this one. Admittedly, the report is biased, and we can't be sure whether Apple really did indicate it would be good to go ahead, but it all seems rather silly. Does apple finance the show, or just attend it? If they simply attend, what's the big deal? Oh well. Why people must do business this way is something I don't understand.

Mord
Jan 23, 2004, 02:02 PM
fingers crossed steve will turn up for a suprise annoncement of a g5 cube


wake up from dream


why is apple so god damn stubbern?

Mudbug
Jan 23, 2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by jimjiminyjim
Does apple finance the show, or just attend it? If they simply attend, what's the big deal?

They simply attend. But they represent the major draw to such a show, that the other vendors take advantage of as a kind of free publicity to their own booths. Apparently IDG did something (probably other than just announce it would go to Boston) that ticked certain people off at Apple, and the cutting off of the nose to spite the face is the lack of an Apple presence at the show. The question now is - will this show happen at all?

mklos
Jan 23, 2004, 02:16 PM
Well its my understanding that IDG runs the whole show and pays the fees for the whole week for the building its in. Apparently the fees got to be too high in NYC so they moved to Boston which Apple said they didn't want to do. Well they went ahead and did it anyways. NYC is a much larger market for Apple and you have to believe thats why Apple wanted to stay in NYC.

Another thing I've heard is that Apple is kinda sick and tired of IDG telling Apple what they are going to do and when they are going to do it. Apple is kinda like the host of the whole show and I guess they don't get treated very well by IDG.

In a way I think Apple IS being a little anal about it, but on the other hand I see why Apple is being so stubborn.

If Apple does in fact not attend this summer then it will be a loss for everyone in the Mac community. Like someone else said, it will give ignorant DOSheads another reason to say that the Mac is dying and their going out of business. It will kinda be Apple's loss too. People come from all over the world to see the MacWorld Expo on the east coast and if Apple only does the World Wide Developers Conference (WWDC) then that will be a blow to the public as they aren't allowed to come to the WWDC unless they are a developer that has been invited by Apple. I guess Apple's solution to that is to stream the keynote on QuickTime and via Satellite broadcast in their Apple Stores. Well thats very nice of them, but no where near as good as actually being there to see the new stuff first hand and actually get to use it.

I don't know... I hope Apple does both, but its very unlikely. You got to believe thats why Apple moved the WWDC from May to late June(1 month before MacWorld Boston). If they do not attend the east coast show there may never be an east coast show for quite a while...

usarioclave
Jan 23, 2004, 02:20 PM
I've gone to AppleFests back in the 80s and Macworlds in the 90s, and I'm glad that Apple doesn't want MacWorld dragged up to Boston.

Macworld went to NY because NY was a better showcase - it's easier to get media attention, large numbers of Mac users are in NY, and you don't have to fly into Logan to get there.

Remember, Macworld is, first and foremost, an opportunity for Apple to sway the press...and that's much, much easier to do from a show in NY. Boston is a nice town, but when it comes to media splash NY is better.

MrMacMan
Jan 23, 2004, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Mudbug
They simply attend. But they represent the major draw to such a show, that the other vendors take advantage of as a kind of free publicity to their own booths. Apparently IDG did something (probably other than just announce it would go to Boston) that ticked certain people off at Apple, and the cutting off of the nose to spite the face is the lack of an Apple presence at the show. The question now is - will this show happen at all?

I just think Moving back to Boston probably pissed them off enough.

Greater User Base == New York
Center of Commerce == New York


WWDC might make up for it?

Maybe, if MacWorld Boston dies... Apple can just run a AppleWorld event.

:D

usarioclave
Jan 23, 2004, 02:25 PM
This is from an interview with the Macworld guy I read when this all went down.

Basically, the head guy was a Bostonian who basically got sick and tired of everyone in town asking him "when is Macworld coming back to Boston?"

The new convention center up there was hard-up for tenants (and giving out deals), the guy wanted to move Macworld back to Boston, and suddenly they had a plan. Except they kind of forgot to ask someone at Apple about it...or at least someone with real authority.

Doh!

Awimoway
Jan 23, 2004, 02:30 PM
So basically, WWDC will become the new MWNY. It won't happen in the East, but it will be the summer event for everyone.

tny
Jan 23, 2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by usarioclave
Macworld went to NY because NY was a better showcase - it's easier to get media attention, large numbers of Mac users are in NY, and you don't have to fly into Logan to get there.


Then don't fly into Logan. Fly in to Manchester or Providence. Both are less than an hour away from Boston, and are much better airports than the semi-demolished labyrinth that is Logan.

mkaake
Jan 23, 2004, 02:33 PM
if i recall, i remember hearing a bunch about this before - not only was apple a little upset with some behind the scenes stuff, but they didn't want to be forced into a large keynote event where people would expect a major product release - and by attending only MWSF, they've opened up their release schedule to whenever/wherever they want to release products...

matt

Krizoitz
Jan 23, 2004, 02:33 PM
I think one of the reasons that Apple is moving away from this conference focus is to give them a little more flexibilty. It used to be major product updates were ONLY released to coincide with one of the two conferences. Why? Because if they didn't have something big to show people would be dissapointed. Well things started changing, products needed to be updated at different times so they started moving away from only expo related launches. Problem is now people are dissapointed anytime Apple doesn't do something groundbreaking. Seriously, people expect Steve to come out with something magical every six months? This way they can get products to us faster (they don't have to wait). Or we won't feel like we are waiting (i.e. they announce the product, but it doesn't ship for awhile cause it still isnt' ready). I think they are better off with just attending one conference a year. Its kind of like a State of the Mac/ChristMacs rolled into one.

d00d
Jan 23, 2004, 02:36 PM
MrMacMan,

You left one little thing out. Boston is a much larger center for tech companies and technical universities. While a large thrust for Apple is creative, wooing tech companies and centers for academic computing is essential for the livelihood of the company. But hey, if you want to make it completely simplistic because you like New York, good for you.

QCassidy352
Jan 23, 2004, 02:55 PM
doh! why is apple being a bastard about this? :(

thepickledegg
Jan 23, 2004, 03:03 PM
"Boston isn't a college town" - Spinal Tap
Yea there is no substantial, young, impressionable, consumer market there.
Nothin good, except for the Patriots! Woo Hooo 20-14 superbowl Patriots

fooker
Jan 23, 2004, 03:05 PM
Apple doesn't really care about the location. Apple wants to get away from Macworld. People expect them to come out with groundbreaking products twice a year. I was bummed out when I didn't see anything innovative during the last macworld.
Apple fans would go anywhere in the country for Macworld.

Apple is a media darling and gets a ton of publicity. Moving from NY to Boston isn't going to change that. I don't blame IDG for trying to move Macworld out of Overpriced NY.

El Tritoma
Jan 23, 2004, 03:19 PM
IDG should not have moved back to Boston just because they are located there and politicians put pressure on them. Apple should not have backed out. What's done is done and none of it is good. Apple has to consider the P.R. aspect of this and not be so stubborn. The world is not perfect; sometimes screws fall out.

greenstork
Jan 23, 2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by jimjiminyjim
I imagine no one has posted on this article yet as there is nothing good to say about Apple on this one. Admittedly, the report is biased, and we can't be sure whether Apple really did indicate it would be good to go ahead, but it all seems rather silly. Does apple finance the show, or just attend it? If they simply attend, what's the big deal? Oh well. Why people must do business this way is something I don't understand.

Your post indicates that you have absolutely no idea how much it costs Apple to attend one of these shows. As the main exhibitor and focus of the show, there is a great deal of planning and expense for them to attend. I'd rather have them sink that into innovation, if it was a choice between the two.

Although, I am sure that there are other reasons for not attending, like the fact that they already have two major expos every year and that about covers all the product releases that they are capable of, besides of course, minor speed bumps and minor software updates.

rdowns
Jan 23, 2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by fooker
Apple doesn't really care about the location. Apple wants to get away from Macworld. People expect them to come out with groundbreaking products twice a year. I was bummed out when I didn't see anything innovative during the last macworld.
Apple fans would go anywhere in the country for Macworld.

Apple is a media darling and gets a ton of publicity. Moving from NY to Boston isn't going to change that. I don't blame IDG for trying to move Macworld out of Overpriced NY.

Apple a media darling?

Apparently you missed the past decade of Apple doom and gloom stroies in the media.

rdowns
Jan 23, 2004, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by greenstork
Your post indicates that you have absolutely no idea how much it costs Apple to attend one of these shows. As the main exhibitor and focus of the show, there is a great deal of planning and expense for them to attend. I'd rather have them sink that into innovation, if it was a choice between the two.

Although, I am sure that there are other reasons for not attending, like the fact that they already have two major expos every year and that about covers all the product releases that they are capable of, besides of course, minor speed bumps and minor software updates.

How much could attending cost Apple? Few hundred thousand? Half a million? Not much innovation at that price. A drop in the bucket of theor barrell of cash.

greenstork
Jan 23, 2004, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
How much could attending cost Apple? Few hundred thousand? Half a million? Not much innovation at that price. A drop in the bucket of theor barrell of cash.

I'd have to believe that it's into the millions but we're both just speculating, who knows.

pbooktebo
Jan 23, 2004, 03:46 PM
MacWorld is a great event for consumers, and it's too bad that both companies let this become a showdown, where one potentially has to back down or lose face.

I went to MWSF, just to check out the iPod mini and see the exhibitor booths, and I had a great time. Bought a couple of O'Rielley books, saw some friends, looked at games, and talked to a few Apple employees about Garage Band. Nothing world-changing, but it is a nice mac-community event.

They should find a way to fix this, even if the fix is a minimal Apple presence that helps keep the MacWorld afloat.

Here's to hoping... :(

latergator116
Jan 23, 2004, 03:56 PM
I sure hope it happens... I was looking forward to attending.:( I wish apple wouldn't be so stubborn.

ITR 81
Jan 23, 2004, 04:00 PM
Basically, IDG is saying "screw you guys I don't need you anyway."

They went did their own thing and lost the interest and market area Apple was aiming for.

SilvorX
Jan 23, 2004, 04:04 PM
didnt the 97 MWBo have billy g on screen for the keynote? *shudders*

NP3
Jan 23, 2004, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors


According to the site, Apple may further revamp the World Wide Developers Conference (WWDC) with a more of a consumer focus -- possibly providing live web coverage for the developer's conference which is scheduled in late July.


Late July??? uh...checked at apple's site which says June 28-July 2

apple developer site (http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/)

bensisko
Jan 23, 2004, 04:29 PM
I'll bet that Apple sunk a ton of money into the "The Big Apple event in the Big Apple" posters and now they can't use them which just makes them mad!

Seriously though, without Apple, Macworld just isn't the same (where would MACworld be without the Mac??). I think that Apple is probably upset about the move from New York for several reasons, not the least of which is IDG seems to have this 'we don't need Apple' attitude. I also wouldn't be suprised if Apple was putting pressure on some of the vendors too.

That being said, I think that a Macworld on both coasts with each a half a year apart is a good thing and something that needs to be there, especially now that we have a taste for it. As for the excuse of needing to have something for a Macworld, Apple comes out with plenty of things during the year they could save for expos should they not have anything.

If this Macworld doesn't work out, I think IDG needs to refocus the Macworld events to have several "mini" Macworld events at cities around the country (perhaps world?). A two-day event at some of the major cities could give them almost as much as they would get from a Macworld.

Lepton
Jan 23, 2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by mklos
Well its my understanding that IDG runs the whole show and pays the fees for the whole week for the building its in. Apparently the fees got to be too high in NYC so they moved to Boston which Apple said they didn't want to do. Well they went ahead and did it anyways. NYC is a much larger market for Apple and you have to believe thats why Apple wanted to stay in NYC.
Yeah, and now Apple has NOTHING on the East coast. I'm a longtime user and Apple Developer and I can't go to California for ALL the stuff! Apple needs some sort of East Coast presence.

mhouse
Jan 23, 2004, 05:29 PM
Like someone alluded to earlier...I really don't think Boston is as much of an issue as its being made out to be.

Apple has stated publicly that they want to get away from Macworlds dictating their product launches. And who can blame them for that? It makes perfect sense...let them launch products on their own schedule.

Doesn't everyone remember all of the moaning and groaning about this past Macworld? After all Apple *only* introduced a new gadget (ipod mini), a awesome new app (garageband), an upgrade to iLife, and a G5 XServe!

Further, how many times have you or someone you know said this or something like it, "God, Man! Why isn't the (insert cool new Apple goodie here) out yet?? Thay announced it a month ago!!"

Well, when your product announcements are tied to a specific set of tradeshows and your stock is going to take a hit if you don't chuck something awesome out there, then product delays are a natural byproduct as you heave out everything in the product pipeline to be gawked at.

I think its completely resonable for Apple to duck out of one of these...regardless of where its held. Obviously, the east coast one would be the likely one to go given Apple's ties to the west coast.

I love Macworld to death but if its going to harm Apple's bottom line, then thanks but no thanks.

steveh
Jan 23, 2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
How much could attending cost Apple? Few hundred thousand? Half a million? Not much innovation at that price. A drop in the bucket of theor barrell of cash.

Figure at least $2M, more if they do anything beyond their basic presence.

A million here, million there, pretty soon you're talking real money, etc.

steveh
Jan 23, 2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by mklos
Well its my understanding that IDG runs the whole show and pays the fees for the whole week for the building its in.

If you don't think that IDG doesn't get back those fees, and more, in what they charge exhibitors, you're missing the boat.

IDG expects to make a profit on the show, and given the economic conditions of the past couple of years, they need everything they can get, too.

mccoma
Jan 23, 2004, 06:27 PM
isn't the timing of the event a little late in the year for the education market. Doesn't Apple need to start announcing stuff earlier so students can purchase at the start of the school year.

fooker
Jan 23, 2004, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
Apple a media darling?

Apparently you missed the past decade of Apple doom and gloom stroies in the media.

Media Darling

1. Apple products are always in Time and Newsweek. Not to mention getting on the cover every few years

2. PC based magazines like PC World, PC Magazine and Smart Computing are always reviewing and introducing Apple's latest products

3. Wired and CNET love to write about apple

4. Forbes usually runs an article every few months on how Steve Jobs turned around Apple.

5. Apple spends a ton of money on product placement but lots of set decorators and idiot celebrities go with Apple products because of their fashionable look

Fukui
Jan 23, 2004, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Lepton
Yeah, and now Apple has NOTHING on the East coast. I'm a longtime user and Apple Developer and I can't go to California for ALL the stuff! Apple needs some sort of East Coast presence.
I don't think most people are thinking about what is going on here.

Remember when steve talked about how many times more people visit the apple stores a week? Something like ten macworlds worth! So...when apple has a product that they want to show, who do you think they wanna show it to, the diehards that will always like apple and visit macworld, or the "millions" that would never attend, but always stroll by thier LOCAL apple store in thier mall?

See the difference?

They can both save money, show many times more people, and launch a product when its perfectly ready, and show it to people that never gave apple a second thought. Think of 100 smaller macworlds at any time of the year, showing off stuff to 100 times more people.

Don't make them come to macworld, make macworld come to them.

P.S You ever notice that whenever a big apple show comes up and MS starts its PR machine to counter apple? With no idea of when apple will release thier big stuff, they become a moving target; harder to counter when you don't know when or where something will happen.

avus
Jan 23, 2004, 07:45 PM
This discussion reminds me of MacWorld Tokyo, which was cancelled last year, and not likely to be revived for a foreseeable future. It is not that Apple abandoned that market - quite the contrary, it opened its first oversea store in Ginza, will open a second one, and iTMS will be soon available for them. They understood that Apple simply shifted the focus from attending one splashy 3-day event (mind you, this was the venue they chose to announce the Flower Power and Blue Dalmatian iMacs :) ) to more concrete marketing efforts, and it is paying off. I don't think the event is missed there at all. For Apple, the Ginza store was a much, much better investment for various reasons, even if only breaks even.

For everyone involved, Jobs' keynote is MacWorld Expo, and all the speculation and expectation leading up to each keynote must be burdening for him and Apple. I can't blame them for cutting back. One expo in the US, another one in the EU, and WWDC, and that's enough. Yet they are now accused of "being stubborn." They can't win any support, can they?

BTW, for those who firmly believe the cancellation will feed the Apple pundits crying the death of Mac, I think those people will keep saying what they've been saying even if Apple will magically recapture 100% of computer market share, so let them keep saying it.

Moonlight
Jan 23, 2004, 07:45 PM
Does the size of the market really matter ? If it did Macworld would be in LA instead of San Fran. But it isn't, that is because Apple just wants to do what it wants to do...

Sportty
Jan 23, 2004, 07:52 PM
WWDC will not become more consumer oriented. Apple is well aware that they need a conference devouted to developers/enterprise customers/content creators. Last year's show proved this direction works and will only be expanded upon. The last thing WWDC needs is sessions on how to use iTunes and fun with iPhoto.

Lets not forget, the age of general computer conferences seems to have already past. My bet is the conferences will become even more focused . MWSF will be the home/general users/creative pro conference. WWDC will be application/enterprise/high-level pros.

wichard
Jan 23, 2004, 07:55 PM
does anyone know what is up with apple not going to boston??

rdowns
Jan 23, 2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by steveh
Figure at least $2M, more if they do anything beyond their basic presence.

A million here, million there, pretty soon you're talking real money, etc.

Sounds like an awful lot of money for a week long show. Where do you think $2 million would go towards?

jaw04005
Jan 23, 2004, 11:58 PM
I think IDG just needs to give in to Steve Jobs. He wants it in New York, and he won't show if it isn't. Just move it back to NY.

Krizoitz
Jan 24, 2004, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by wichard
does anyone know what is up with apple not going to boston??

I don't meant to sound rude or anything but seriously. Thats what this whole topic is about, the very first message gives background into why. Read THEN post.

wdlove
Jan 24, 2004, 12:44 PM
This is very sad news indeed, since I live in Boston. I am still looking forward to the show this July. For now I will try to remain optimistic, until a definitive announcement is made there is still a possibility.

If Steve doesn't really want to attend MacWorld period, the cancel both the East and West Expos. It does sound like the WWDC is important.

Nostromo1965
Jan 24, 2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by fooker
Media Darling

3. Wired and CNET love to write about apple


You've GOT to be kidding me. WTF are you smoking?

CNET *HATES* Apple! They're notorious for posting biased, one-sided crap on how people shouldn't consider Apple and go with "more established" Windoze technology. They're the Fox News of the computing world.

Have a look at these:

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4194

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4215

...then tell me that CNET considers Apple a "darling".

suzerain
Jan 24, 2004, 01:41 PM
(1)
boston is a second-tier city. having an expo there says "we can't play with the big boys".

(2)
the IDG guy was hell-bent on moving the expo there for personal reasons. he is the one who has made this a dick-measuring contest, not apple. apple was initially never consented about IDGs plans, and when they were, they said no, and IDG went ahead and tried to move it there anyway.

(3)
the Internet makes biz expos obsolete. everyone here seems to be missing this point. even attendance at macworld SF (apple's backyard) is DOWN. it makes no sense to fly across the country to hear steve jobs say "we have new powerbooks" when you can watch a satellite broadcast, and you can email all of your colleagues anyway. the people bitching about this are the people who want to get free travel, and free meals.

(4)
apple has almost 70 stores (that is their goal by year end). they reach about 10x the people an expo in any city (even NY or LA) would reach. apple can stream the keynotes there, and have 70 expos at once.

so, why even bother with this crap anymore?

personally, i think that is apple's real motivation. i think they want out of NY, too. i think they are keeping the SF one (for now) because it is like their hometown event, but i'd not be surprised to see that gone within 5 years.

IONLYUSEOSX
Jan 25, 2004, 11:41 AM
Even if Apple does not like Boston they should not ignore the vast number of Mac customers on the East coast. MacWorld Boston is a great low cost venue to showcase Panther, Xserve and XRAID to education, publishing, biotech and video customers. If Apple is not there it will send a negative message to the industry that the Macintosh market is weak and getting even smaller. Customers will wonder if Apple is turning into an entertainment only company and bailing out of the computer industry. Apple has great products for the enterprise and it would be very sad for the Mac community if they are not showcased to the right people at an East coast show. IT departments (Mac and PC) are taking a hard look at the Xserve solution right now and Apple would be foolish not to market the product any chance they get. If Donald Trump was CEO of Apple he would not ignore Boston. =)

The Applestore is comsumer level. Expos are for pros.
http://www.webscience.com/dc/images/mwpics/brobin1.jpg

rdowns
Jan 25, 2004, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by IONLYUSEOSX
Even if Apple does not like Boston they should not ignore the vast number of Mac customers on the East coast. MacWorld Boston is a great low cost venue to showcase Panther, Xserve and XRAID to education, publishing, biotech and video customers. If Apple is not there it will send a negative message to the industry that the Macintosh market is weak and getting even smaller. Customers will wonder if Apple is turning into an entertainment only company and bailing out of the computer industry. Apple has great products for the enterprise and it would be very sad for the Mac community if they are not showcased to the right people at an East coast show. IT departments (Mac and PC) are taking a hard look at the Xserve solution right now and Apple would be foolish not to market the product any chance they get. If Donald Trump was CEO of Apple he would not ignore Boston. =)

The Applestore is comsumer level. Expos are for pros.
http://www.webscience.com/dc/images/mwpics/brobin1.jpg

If Donald Trump were CEO of Apple, we'd be running Intel and Windows.

yamabushi
Jan 25, 2004, 12:56 PM
I would like to see a transition to smaller and more specialized one or two day conferences for professional Mac users in specific fields. I envision hundreds of small conferences in many cities worldwide. How many are there now I wonder?

Use just a hotel instead of a convention center. Apple stores are okay for viewing a streamed presentation but are not adequate as a meeting place. A tiny presence by Apple could record parts of the conference and later stream it to the Apple stores from an Apple server. That way huge bandwidth wouldn't be needed at the conference hall in the hotel.

Of course Steve Jobs could make a surprise appearance at any one of these and be welcomed. He might even decide to make an announcement of some kind.
:)

wdlove
Jan 25, 2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by suzerain
(1)
boston is a second-tier city. having an expo there says "we can't play with the big boys".

The DNC certainly doesn't consider Boston to be a second tier city. Just think if Steve came for MacWorld, then he could also attend the convention.

I agree that he needs to make a appearance on the East Coast. The media coverage is priceless. This will be the first group to open the new convention center. truly a once in a life time opportunity for this historic opportunity.

cubist
Jan 25, 2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
Sounds like an awful lot of money for a week long show. Where do you think $2 million would go towards?

And the $2 million may be a low figure - considering all the people, hotel bills, transportation, union graft, etc.

Twenty years ago, I wanted to get a copy of BSD2 for a PDP-11. The BSD folks refused to sell it to me since I didn't have a Unix source license, which cost $20,000. They said, "you have a business, that's not a lot of money."

People, before you EVER use phrases like 'that's not a lot of money for a business', try being self-employed for a while. It will radically change your perspective. It certainly changed mine.

For one thing, I'd never, ever say "that's not a lot of money for Apple" or anyone else.

Businesses cannot throw around money like it was water, no matter how much they have.

pdrayton
Jan 26, 2004, 08:30 AM
The DNC certainly doesn't consider Boston to be a second tier city. Just think if Steve came for MacWorld, then he could also attend the convention.


Well, I live in Boston, and it's a second-tier city. Boston's selection as the host city for the DNC doesn't have anything to do with Boston being "first-tier". Also, if Steve Jobs came to the Mac expo in Boston, I doubt he'd hang around for a month just to see the Democrats at their convention.

If Steve Jobs is going to attend an expo on the East Coast then he's also going to want easy access to live network news interviews where he can tout Apple's new stuff without his competitors butting in. CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, etc all provide the opportunity to pop-in for live interviews that will directly reach consumers who are the target market for those products.

Boston is second-tier, and that's a hard pilll for many aloof Bostonians to swallow.

wdlove
Jan 26, 2004, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by pdrayton
Well, I live in Boston, and it's a second-tier city. Boston's selection as the host city for the DNC doesn't have anything to do with Boston being "first-tier". Also, if Steve Jobs came to the Mac expo in Boston, I doubt he'd hang around for a month just to see the Democrats at their convention.

If Steve Jobs is going to attend an expo on the East Coast then he's also going to want easy access to live network news interviews where he can tout Apple's new stuff without his competitors butting in. CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, etc all provide the opportunity to pop-in for live interviews that will directly reach consumers who are the target market for those products.

Boston is second-tier, and that's a hard pill for many aloof Bostonians to swallow.

I don't consider myself to be aloof. Just trying to be a booster in a city that I have lived in for 20 years as on this coming July. Hopefully the DNC convention will show us as a truly world class city. I think that if you live in a city you should try to be positive.

My real hope is that there will still be a MacWorld Boston. I will have hope until Steve & IDG have a press release saying that it has been cancelled.

pdrayton
Jan 26, 2004, 04:53 PM
I don't consider myself to be aloof. Just trying to be a booster in a city that I have lived in for 20 years as on this coming July. Hopefully the DNC convention will show us as a truly world class city. I think that if you live in a city you should try to be positive.

And I wasn't commenting about you. I stated that Boston was a "second-tier" city and that it was "a hard pill for many aloof Bostonians to swallow". I wasn't refering to you specifically, nor to everyone in Boston.

Being proud of one's city and wanting to be a booster is a good thing. But, the population facts are indisputable: Boston ranks below cities such as Houston, Phoenix, San Diego, Detroit, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Columbus Ohio, Memphis and even Milwaukee. Plus, Boston lacks national media opportunities available in Manhattan.

I just think that regardless of Boston's merits as a host city, Steve Jobs has needs that Boston can't fill... being able to bounce from studio to studio doing live nationally broadcast interviews. Companies constantly need to evaluate the value of attending trade shows, and Apple may have discovered that an Expo in Boston, or any other city, just doesn't cut it for them anymore.

I think a Mac Expo in Boston could be a success without Jobs here. But, If IDG feels an expo in Boston needs Apple's presence, they should have run it by Apple prior to making the move.

redeye
Jul 11, 2004, 05:42 PM
When Macworld hits NYC again, check out the
River Project.
It looks like the Santa Monica pier all over again,
people jogging and rollerskating on the water
with sailboats and small cruiseliners going by.
PLUS you can get a 2 bedroom down there for a mere 2.5 million !