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arn
May 29, 2002, 04:24 PM
CDRinfo (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.asp?RelatedID=2351) reports on an upcoming "Super Combo Drive" from Sanyo Japan this summer:

The drive will support both CD and DVD formats, becoming an alternative solution to existing DVD writers. In addition would offer the faster DVD recording speed (4x) among with a new technology that adds 650MB to normal CD-R media reaching 1.3GB with 650MB and 1.4GB with 700MB discs!

This drive will reportedly support the DVD-R/RW standard which Apple has adopted. The non-standard 1.3-1.4GB formats are not readable in standard CD drives without firmware updates.

Royal Pineapple
May 29, 2002, 04:35 PM
Will this drive be cheeper than Apple's existing superdrive?

Backtothemac
May 29, 2002, 04:53 PM
OMG. I don't care how much it costs, I have to have one of those. That would be just unreal if they have really found a way to get that much data onto a normal CDR.

Unreal, oh, and to answer your question, no they will not be cheaper than the current drives. That will probably take a while, but this may bring the current SuperDrive to the massess :)

sedarby
May 29, 2002, 04:54 PM
What would really be interesting would be if they can get this in a slim form factor for laptops. :)

TyleRomeo
May 29, 2002, 04:57 PM
i hope we see this as the "new super drive for this summer's powermacs

Royal Pineapple
May 29, 2002, 05:14 PM
thats too bad, for a guy on a summer salary of $2000 theres no way i can get one of these as well as the other things i have planed:( :( :(

Royal Pineapple
May 29, 2002, 05:22 PM
i want one in my iBook

s10
May 29, 2002, 05:36 PM
I want one on my mobile phone.

Matt_d
May 29, 2002, 05:38 PM
:cool: Wow cool! I want one!

barkmonster
May 29, 2002, 06:05 PM
To double the amount of data storage on something with a fixed number of recordable sectors is impossible physically, If it was audio data it was compressing, maybe it might have an onboard DSP to turn it into a shorten document while burning.

Shorten is great, it's free and you can squeeze a 60 minute sample CD down to about 200Mb, plus it restores the files back to the original and even verifies them. It's true lossless compression. Unfortunately it only works with audio.

I also think it could be some kind of common compression scheme, huffman, LZH, LZW, TAR, ZIP, ICE! or any of the other one's that appear to be open source or at least free to use.

Whatever it uses, it does pose an instant problem in that only people with the same drive could read the CD, unless of course it puts an auto running application on it so you can browse the CD and copy files from it. That being the case, I'd bet the windows users are cattered for first.

lets face it, it's a mystery. I'd love to get one when they're out though, it'd be great for backing up large projects onto 1 CD instead of spanning them over several.

kenkooler
May 29, 2002, 06:10 PM
Sony has been creating CD-R drives that support the 1.3 Gb standard but they use special cds. I wonder if it has something to do with this...

firewire2001
May 29, 2002, 06:34 PM
i believe that its possible because it puts more data onto a given sector..

it does this using a more precise laser.

SPG
May 29, 2002, 06:35 PM
I wonder if 1.3gb will become the standard for CDR in the near future? There wa a note that other drives would be able to read these 1.3 gb Cd's with a firmware update...cool.

idkew
May 29, 2002, 06:52 PM
this wold NOT use compression. It would just pack more info into the same space; smaller laser as someone just said.

My guess is that IF it does work on other CD-ROMs, it will be dog slow and that chances are even in the sony cd/dvd-rw it will be slower than a regular cd-rom.

britboy
May 29, 2002, 07:00 PM
My guess is that there is more to it than simply using a smaller laser. Could current cd drives meet the standard, just with a new firmware update? I doubt it. It's probably got more to do with changes to the address format and error-correction scheme.

Choppaface
May 29, 2002, 08:10 PM
so exactly what kinds of older drives can read these things? like old DVD-ROMs? cuz ya it would seem that older CD-ROMs would need more than a firmware update

AnarchistMan
May 29, 2002, 09:50 PM
Well if this drive can do this its because of the laser. It must be a shorter wavelength to get all that data in a normal cd-r which seems pretty likely. What im waiting for is the new blue laser cds which hold up to 40 gb per side! Oh yeah and the little thing being developed right now called holographic cubes or discs which can hold terabytes of date in a few inches of disk and has transfer rates up to 1gb/sec! This will make dvds, cds, and any other data storing device obsolete when it comes into production in a few years. :cool:

teabgs
May 29, 2002, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by AnarchistMan
Well if this drive can do this its because of the laser. It must be a shorter wavelength to get all that data in a normal cd-r which seems pretty likely. What im waiting for is the new blue laser cds which hold up to 40 gb per side! Oh yeah and the little thing being developed right now called holographic cubes or discs which can hold terabytes of date in a few inches of disk and has transfer rates up to 1gb/sec! This will make dvds, cds, and any other data storing device obsolete when it comes into production in a few years. :cool:


nice first post. Gotta give credit where credit's due

AnarchistMan
May 29, 2002, 10:04 PM
Thanks :D

macfreek57
May 29, 2002, 11:53 PM
yeah if it has to do with the laser presicion then you need a new drive: i.e. not an old firware-updated drive. it's not physically possible to change the way the laser mechanism works (in the ways this technology needs).
either this article is a load of BS, or it uses compression.

macfreek57
May 29, 2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by AnarchistMan
Thanks :D

nice second post

AmbitiousLemon
May 30, 2002, 01:07 AM
since you guys dont seem to be capable of clicking the link i thought id quote it for you.

-Product Specs-

- CD Format
Writing speeds: 4x, 8x, 12x, 16x, 20x (CLV), 24x (Zone-CLV) [CD], 12x (CLV) [1.3GB]
Re-writing Speeds: 4x, 10x, 12x (CLV)
Reading speed: 40x (CAV)
4MB Buffer
Burn-Proof technology
FlexSS-BP technology
Shock-BP technology
Safe-BP technology

Now you can fit 1.3GB by using special writers and media, according to Sony's DDCD format. Sanyo's proposal uses new technique that can fit 1.3GB in normal CD-R/RW media (650/700MB). This way you store more data without changing media and drive's design. Current readers wouldn't be able to recognize Sanyo's 1.3GB format without a firmware upgrade, but Sanyo says its would easy to accomplish. There is no information if this technology would be available to other manufacturers for implementation in their drive designs. More information will be published from Sanyo in the near future...Stay tuned!

britboy
May 30, 2002, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
since you guys dont seem to be capable of clicking the link i thought id quote it for you.




You don't really expect people to be able to use their brains and check out a link when one's provided now, do you? I thought you were a realist!

As it says clearly in the link Current readers wouldn't be able to recognize Sanyo's 1.3GB format without a firmware upgrade, but Sanyo says its would easy to accomplish. Which is why i believe it has more to with the CIRC and ATIP than a more precise laser.

SPG
May 30, 2002, 11:38 AM
4x DVD burn speed. That's nice. I have to get off the boards and start burning 30 DVDR's today for a client...damn, why couldn't they have strted shipping these last week!

Hey Lemon, I thought the isle of Waponi Woo sank when the volcano erupted. How can you still be there? Enjoy your orange soda!

SPG
May 30, 2002, 01:17 PM
Perhaps similar technology to this...

DVD-compatible optical disk hits 100 Gbytes


By Mike Clendenin

EE Times
May 24, 2002 (12:30 p.m. EST)


TAIPEI, Taiwan Forget about 100-gigabyte portable hard drives too bulky.
A physics professor at a leading Taiwanese university has led a group of
researchers in developing a recordable optical disk capable of packing in
100 Gbytes of data and slipping into a pants pocket.

That's about 30,000 of your favorite songs, or enough tunes to toe-tap to
for a few months.




The disk is compatible with today's CD and DVD technology, running off the
same red laser pick-up heads used in a typical disk player. "That's the most
attractive part of this technology," said Wang Shyh-Yeu, director of
research at Ritek Corp., a disk maker that co-funded the study and will
likely commercialize the disk in 2005 or 2006.

To achieve the 100-Gbyte density target, the research team at National
Taiwan University, led by professor Tsai Din Ping, used near-field optics
where the distance used for the interaction of the laser and media is
shorter than the wavelength of light used to make the recording marks on the
disk.

Two layers were added to the disk to achieve the near-field effect. The
first is a transparent dielectric spacing layer, about 20 nanometers to 40
nanometers thick, which keeps the distance constant in the near field. The
other layer is an active layer, which will interact with the focus point of
the laser beam, generate the near-field effect and then transfer the mark to
the recording layer.

Smaller mark


Using a standard sized disk, 12 centimeters in diameter, the researchers
drew down the mark size to about 100 nm, less than about 400 nm for today's
DVDs and 900 nm for CDs. "Even with such a small mark size, we can still
have about 35 dB on the readout signal," Tsai said. "If you check your DVD
disk today, the readout range is about the same, from 30 dB to 40 dB. So
that's a very good result because the mark size is much smaller than 400 nm
but the carrier-to-noise ratio is still very good. That's not easy."

Japanese companies and university researchers have also been developing
high-density prototypes. Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. developed a
dual-layer rewritable optical disk last year that could store 50 Gbytes per
side, enough for four hours of high-definition movies. It used violet
lasers, however, not red lasers.

Tsai said his prototype is ready to hit the market today, but Wang doubts
the market is ready. The disk may be capable of recording dozens of Star
Trek episodes, but there aren't any drives available to utilize it and no
one is working on one. Such systems would also require a new chip set.
"Today's technology still has a ways to go before this is needed," Wang
said.

In the meantime, Wang said Ritek should work on polishing the
signal-to-noise characteristics on disks in the 40-Gbyte to 60-Gbyte range,
which would still far outstrip today's 9.4-Gbyte maximum capacity for a
dual-sided, dual-layer DVDs. Even next-generation proposals, such as Blu-ray
DVDs, top out at about 27 Gbytes. Besides, they use pricier technology
they are based on blue lasers that is not backward compatible with today's
red laser standard. "The next two years will be very important for this
technology," Wang said. "If we can get through the big breakthroughs we
need, this will be a threat to Blu-ray."

During that time, however, Tsai will be prodding his team to push the limits
of density even further. Ritek and Taiwan's National Science Council are
funding the research until February 2003 with $660,000 the project started
in March 2000. "Our goal is to make an even smaller mark size that will
still be stable within the near field. To do this, we will have to find a
nanostructure to make this happen in a much easier way," Tsai said.

"One hundred gigabytes is not the limit; it is just the beginning. Our goal
is terabit," he said.

cryptochrome
May 30, 2002, 02:16 PM
Seems like there's a lot of competition in the race to put massive storage on a disk. C-3d (http://www.c-3d.net/) has an interesting alternative technology based on flourescent dyes and incoherent light (Flourescent Multilayer Disks and Cards). They've even demonstrated a movie-length HDTV format disk. (For various reasons though, I think the card format has significant advantages over the disk format which I wish the powers-that-be would appreciate, namely that they are easier to handle, easier to store and transport, more durable, and simpler to use than disks, i.e. kid/idiot/klutz friendly). Assuming they don't have problems with dye bleaching, I think their technology could beat the others in cost of media and readers.

2112
May 31, 2002, 06:17 PM
This Technology somehow exists for mac for at least 5 Years ...

www.optimatech.com

Sarc