Irony is a Wonderful Thing

[bobber205]

Gallup has Obama up by 8.

Obama has rebounded from the "palin" bounce and came out pretty far ahead.

IMO, all this is because of the economy going down the crapper.

Thank you Republicans for making the laws in such a way that lead to this disaster. :D It's too bad people have to suffer financially before they'll elect a Democrat. ;)

I am curious: what do you guys think McCain will do next?

[NT1440]

whoa whoa whoa, everyone knows its the dems who have been in control almost 2 years. Its there fault. Surely no laws that were passed before then are still in effect and lead us to this mess. Surely not.

[rdowns]

I am curious: what do you guys think McCain will do next?

Marry off the Palin kid. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4837644.ece)

[Gray-Wolf]

The WaMu fiscal, and other economics has NOTHING to do with the republicans. Tell me, which republican gave the newly picked WaMu exect, who was only on the job 3 weeks, the $20 million separation package???

Which republican senator or House, caused the banks to offer variable rate mortgages? Which republican made those same banks to fail? Which republican said "Lets raise the price of oil till no one can afford it?"

Give me names please!

Please get the facts straight before casting blame.

:mad:

[skunk]

Which republican senator or House, caused the banks to offer variable rate mortgages? Which republican made those same banks to fail? Which republican said "Lets raise the price of oil till no one can afford it?"

Give me names please!Since the Republicans have been in charge of everything for six of the last eight years, I'd say that they should really take the rap for all those regulatory failings.

[bobber205]

whoa whoa whoa, everyone knows its the dems who have been in control almost 2 years. Its there fault. Surely no laws that were passed before then are still in effect and lead us to this mess. Surely not.

Yeah. With an extremely slim majority. This mess was caused my deregulation. That's obvious. And who wants more deregulation? Republicans.

It takes a sizeable majority to do anything in congress. If the GOP keeps blocking every bill the Dems try to pass, you can't put the blame on them for trying.

Maybe they should have threatened the GOP members to vote with them? :confused:

[mkrishnan]

I don't really understand how any of this is ironic. :confused:

[bobber205]

I don't really understand how any of this is ironic. :confused:

I guess I meant to use the word that means the total opposite of irony? I'm not sure. Maybe this is to be expected.

[Gray-Wolf]

Since the Republicans have been in charge of everything for six of the last eight years, I'd say that they should really take the rap for all those regulatory failings.

Then please give me the evidence. Show me where they voted/approved/ratified anything that caused this.

Clinton started the crap, with the NAFTA crap and letting jobs go south of the border, taking money from US suppliers. Let the Dems clean house if they want a scape goat.

[skunk]

I don't really understand how any of this is ironic. :confused:"Ironic" probably means something different in US English.

[skunk]

Then please give me the evidence. Show me where they voted/approved/ratified anything that caused this.

Clinton started the crap, when the NAFTA crap and letting jobs go south of the boarder, taking money from US suppliers. Let the Dems clean house if they want a scape goat.The words "clutching", "at" and "straws" spring to mind.

[mkrishnan]

"Ironic" probably means something different in US English.

Hey, first of all, that's "American" to you. :p And second of all, if King James English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for you. :D Actually we only know the word from that Alanis song, and she's Canadian. :o

[dukebound85]

Gallup has Obama up by 8.

Obama has rebounded from the "palin" bounce and came out pretty far ahead.

IMO, all this is because of the economy going down the crapper.

Thank you Republicans for making the laws in such a way that lead to this disaster. :D It's too bad people have to suffer financially before they'll elect a Democrat. ;)

I am curious: what do you guys think McCain will do next?

alot of the troubles we are seeing now are from the policies back in the 90's.... when you know clinton and greenspan were running the show. its not just the republicans fault......

[avigalante]

whoa whoa whoa, everyone knows its the dems who have been in control almost 2 years. Its there fault. Surely no laws that were passed before then are still in effect and lead us to this mess. Surely not.

The Republicans have had control of nearly all parts of Government for the past 6-8 years. Couple this with the Republican mantra of 'government deregulation' and voila you've arrived at this deep-hole.

I absolutely fault Henry Paulson, Ben Bernanke and the entire Bush administration for not having the foresight to allude or alleviate these economic pressures; they have been far too reactionary.

alot of the troubles we are seeing now are from the policies back in the 90's.... when you know clinton and greenspan were running the show

I agree, but this problem has exacerbated under the current administration for the reasons explained above.

[skunk]

alot of the troubles we are seeing now are from the policies back in the 90's.... when you know clinton and greenspan were running the showJust how many years does a party have to be in power to accept responsibility for something? :confused:

[Ugg]

Marry off the Palin kid. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4837644.ece)

I wonder how much money they're going to pay him for a sham marriage. Maybe they're promising him a cushy government job?

[NT1440]

The Republicans have had control of nearly all parts of Government for the past 6-8 years. Couple this with the Republican mantra of 'government deregulation' and voila you've arrived at this deep-hole.

I absolutely fault Henry Paulson, Ben Bernanke and the entire Bush administration for not having the foresight to allude or alleviate these economic pressures; they have been far too reactionary.

my post was supposed to be entirely sarcastic. Anyone that thinks a completely free market would work without being abused as it has been is an idiot. Has Mccain said anything since this mess about if he still wants to put our healthcare on the markets?

[dukebound85]

Just how many years does a party have to be in power to accept responsibility for something? :confused:

because of course these issues arose overnight lol

[skunk]

because of course these issues arose overnight lolShabby argument. Eight years is long enough to sort it out.

[bobber205]

@ duke.

You can at least admit the GOP did nothing for the mess "caused" by the Dems in the 90s during their 6 years in total power.

[Peace]

@ duke.

You can at least admit the GOP did nothing for the mess "caused" by the Dems in the 90s during their 6 years in total power.


I'm guessing you are referring to the balanced budget ?

[Cleverboy]

Then please give me the evidence. Show me where they voted/approved/ratified anything that caused this.First, Google "phil gramm crisis". Then... read this...
The Uptick Rule: In July 2007, the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) eliminated the “uptick rule (http://www.thestockbandit.net/2007/07/03/short-selling-uptick-rule-ends/),” which “made it hard for speculators to push the price of a stock down after betting it would fall.” As the Wonk Room noted yesterday, “since then, legions of short sellers have progressively hammered Wall Street (http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/09/18/sec-short-selling/), contributing greatly to the current stock market crisis.”

The Net Capital Rule: In 2004, the SEC loosened the “net capital” rule, which required “that broker dealers limit their debt-to-net capital ratio (http://www.nysun.com/business/ex-sec-official-blames-agency-for-blow-up/86130/) to 12-to-1.” The five investment banks that qualified for an alternative rule - Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley - were allowed “to increase their debt-to-net capital ratios, sometimes, as in the case of Merrill Lynch, to as high as 40-to-1 (http://www.nysun.com/business/ex-sec-official-blames-agency-for-blow-up/86130/).”

State Laws Against Predatory Lending: In 2003, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) issued regulations that exempted national banks from state laws against predatory lending (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9904E2DA153EF932A3575BC0A9659C8B63). As Slate reported, “with the state laws nullified, national banks were free to engage in the sharp practices (http://www.slate.com/id/2182709/pagenum/2/) the states were hoping to stamp out.”The Bush administration eliminated these “specific regulations,” contributing to the specific mess that the financial system is in today.
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/09/19/perino-challenge/

Hope that helps,
~ CB

[avigalante]

my post was supposed to be entirely sarcastic. Anyone that thinks a completely free market would work without being abused as it has been is an idiot. Has Mccain said anything since this mess about if he still wants to put our healthcare on the markets?

Well, my fault in not recognizing the sarcasm!

It's fairly clear that McCain wants to avoid the the financial crisis (and economics) at all costs. I reckon that he wanted to suspend the debate because of 'taking the higher ground' and 'helping out America at a time in need'; which in my book is AKA - 'I don't know what to say because it doesn't really affect me'.

I'm guessing you are referring to the balanced budget ?

Or the plentiful surplus left at the end of Clinton's administration... :p

[bobber205]

I'm guessing you are referring to the balanced budget ?

Shoot. Forgot about that! ;)

[NT1440]

Well, my fault in not recognizing the sarcasm!

It's fairly clear that McCain wants to avoid the the financial crisis (and economics) at all costs. I reckon that he wanted to suspend the debate because of 'taking the higher ground' and 'helping out America at a time in need'; which in my book is AKA - 'I don't know what to say because it doesn't really affect me'.

srry it was my fault. My post was dripping in so much sarcasm that it actually sounded like a Republican excuse. The internet sucks at sarcasm.

As for Mccain, it really appalls me that i see republican commentators avoiding the fact that hes doing literally nothing by side stepping and saying "at least hes showing leadership". So PR stunts are now a qualifyer for president.

What the hell happened to this country?

[Sun Baked]

It is all Alan Greenspan's fault, so I blame President Reagan :p

And all those darn Presidents since that rubber stamped him, and helped make bubble chasing a national pastime.

He told people to take out ARMs, then raised rates quite a bit, didn't get the housing bubble was as bad as he was expecting ... finally speaks about it and tanks the market by 3.3%

[avigalante]

srry it was my fault. My post was dripping in so much sarcasm that it actually sounded like a Republican excuse. The internet sucks at sarcasm.

As for Mccain, it really appalls me that i see republican commentators avoiding the fact that hes doing literally nothing by side stepping and saying "at least hes showing leadership". So PR stunts are now a qualifyer for president.

What the hell happened to this country?

I know; it's difficult to convey correct emotions on the Internet - I feel your pain.

I agree - it's incredibly pathetic that somehow PR-stunts/media-attention are immediate precursors for qualifications. I also don't seem to understand the GOP's main argument of "Obama doesn't get it" - what is it that Obama doesn't seem to get?

Is that the best the Republicans can do? Seriously?

[NT1440]

I know; it's difficult to convey correct emotions on the Internet - I feel your pain.

I agree - it's incredibly pathetic that somehow PR-stunts/media-attention are immediate precursors for qualifications. I also don't seem to understand the GOP's main argument of "Obama doesn't get it" - what is it that Obama doesn't seem to get?

Is that the best the Republicans can do? Seriously?

Whats sad is thats all they need to do. look at the polls. Roughly half of americans either buy that crap, wont vote for obama for superficial reasons, or the scariest of the three: They honestly beleive that mccains plans are good for the country.

[skunk]

Whats sad is thats all they need to do. look at the polls. Roughly half of americans either buy that crap, wont vote for obama for superficial reasons, or the scariest of the three: They honestly beleive that mccains plans are good for the country.By "superficial", do you mean "skin deep"?

[rdowns]

Whats sad is thats all they need to do. look at the polls. Roughly half of americans either buy that crap, wont vote for obama for superficial reasons, or the scariest of the three: They honestly beleive that mccains plans are good for the country.

Polls show Americans trust Obama with the economy over McCain by a large margin.

So why isn't Obama running away with this?

Americans think McCain would be a better CiC and Bushco has scared the ***** out of so many people since 9/11 that they will vote this issue.

Then there's the race thing.

[NT1440]

By "superficial", do you mean "skin deep"?

skin could be a reason, but other things with no importance as well like religion.

[Iscariot]

Just how many years does a party have to be in power to accept responsibility for something? :confused:

This can be solved via one of two mathematical equations. Let "x" represent how many years a party needs to accept responsibility for something, and "y" represents the length of time the party has been in power:

If the party in power is the Republican party:

x = y + 1

If the party in power is the Democratic party:

x = y

[NT1440]

Polls show Americans trust Obama with the economy over McCain by a large margin.

So why isn't Obama running away with this?

Americans think McCain would be a better CiC and Bushco has scared the ***** out of so many people since 9/11 that they will vote this issue.

Then there's the race thing.

Id like to think that its the state of fear mongering we live in that is the reason (is it sad when thats the BETTER option?)

the race thing may be it sadly. I'd like to think better of people as here in New England that doesnt matter much, but the rest of the country im not so sure about. Didnt something like 13% of West Virginian voters interviewed during the primaries say Obamas race or religion were why they didnt vote for him?

[avigalante]

Whats sad is thats all they need to do. look at the polls. Roughly half of americans either buy that crap, wont vote for obama for superficial reasons, or the scariest of the three: They honestly beleive that mccains plans are good for the country.

Yep - welcome to racism/bigot-ism in the 21st Century.

What's far worse is that people (mostly from 'the-middle') don't realize that inflation is at a 17-year-high; cutting taxes from the top-down are not going to alleviate these pressures.

[mactastic]

Conservative or liberal, Democrat or Republican, that's not the issue. This is the fault of politicians who subscribe to the theory that markets will do the right thing when freed from regulatory oversight. Regulations on these kinds of transactions were weakened over the last 10 years, and a new investment vehicle was created that well exceeded total GDP with no tangible backing. We allowed corporations to get "too big to fail", then we're surprised when the poop hits the centrifugal accelerator when they do fail.

We've been down this road before in the late '80s. For which McCain got a censure in the Senate of course. But we didn't learn those lessons.

And now we're about to test the "trickle down" BS again by bailing out the richest among us and hope that they don't pocket it all before it trickles down to the little guy with a mortgage s/he can't afford.

I have yet to see a market that has been improved by deregulation. There may be one or two, but in my experience when a market is deregulated the people at the top get rich(er) and the consumer doesn't get anything except higher bills.

[NT1440]

Yep - welcome to racism/bigot-ism in the 21st Century.

What's far worse is that people (mostly from 'the-middle') don't realize that inflation is at a 17-year-high; cutting taxes from the top-down are not going to alleviate these pressures.

:eek:WHAT!? your saying that cutting taxes solve every problem in the country!?!?! I wont stand for this rubbish!:mad:



:rolleyes:

[NT1440]

snip

Mactastic, you always make so much sense. Your sig says it all really.

[avigalante]

:eek:WHAT!? your saying that cutting taxes solve every problem in the country!?!?! I wont stand for this rubbish!:mad:



:rolleyes:

Heh, you never know - with the way some people think, anything is possible.

I seriously believe that the intellects that once presided in this nation have now moved afar. I mean, to be honest, what did giving back $600+ (part of the economic stimulus package) to each family really do (other than waste ~$25bn)?

[mactastic]

I mean, to be honest, what did giving back $600+ (part of the economic stimulus package) to each family really do (other than waste ~$25bn)?
I believe the reason conservative legialators and the President went along with that stimulus package was so that a recession could not be declared prior to the elections. If you distribute checks in the first and second quarters, and their effect is felt in the second and third quarters, it is possible to deny that a recession is under way until well into 2009; since a recession is technically not able to be declared until at least 6 months after it has started.

From their perspective, it was a kick-the-can-down-the-road maneuver.

And of course the Democrats were more than happy to go along with the plan because they got to be seen as doing something to help regular folks.

But really all it did was forestall the inevitable. Unfortunately for the GOP, it didn't forestall it quite long enough, and here we are today...

[freeny]

the democrats are hardly guiltless in this. Policies created many years ago by both reps and dems got this ball rolling. You can put the blame on the current republican majority for letting it fester and getting this bad.

[atszyman]

Just how many years does a party have to be in power to accept responsibility for something? :confused:

This can be solved via one of two mathematical equations. Let "x" represent how many years a party needs to accept responsibility for something, and "y" represents the length of time the party has been in power:

If the party in power is the Republican party:

x = y + 1

If the party in power is the Democratic party:

x = y

That's about right, of course everything good that happens in an administration is because of what happened in the last opposition administration.

In 1980 it was all Carter's fault for his 4 years. Through all 8 years of Clinton everything good was because of Reagan and Bush I. Everything over the last 8 years was Clinton's fault, and if Obama wins and things are better in 4-8 years it will all be because of Bush II. If things get worse it will somehow be the current congress and the new administration's fault.

When the hell did it become a sign of weakness to admit a mistake and try to correct actions/thoughts that led to the mistake?

[Rodimus Prime]

That's about right, of course everything good that happens in an administration is because of what happened in the last opposition administration.

In 1980 it was all Carter's fault for his 4 years. Through all 8 years of Clinton everything good was because of Reagan and Bush I. Everything over the last 8 years was Clinton's fault, and if Obama wins and things are better in 4-8 years it will all be because of Bush II. If things get worse it will somehow be the current congress and the new administration's fault.

When the hell did it become a sign of weakness to admit a mistake and try to correct actions/thoughts that led to the mistake?


LOL you are crazy if you think that formula is true.

It will always be
X=y+1 no matter who is in power. Politician care only about ONE THING and ONE THING ONLY. Power. All they want is power. Ever since the beginning it been degrading every year since then and now every person we have in congress is unfit to lead. Presidents crossed that line a long time ago.

[ntrigue]

whoa whoa whoa, everyone knows its the dems who have been in control almost 2 years. Its there fault. Surely no laws that were passed before then are still in effect and lead us to this mess. Surely not.

Bush's HUD law that gave 0% interest mortgages to the poor?!

[ZiggyPastorius]

My only concern is: How is this irony?

[NT1440]

Bush's HUD law that gave 0% interest mortgages to the poor?!

who the hell was talking about bush?

[atszyman]

LOL you are crazy if you think that formula is true.

It will always be
X=y+1 no matter who is in power. Politician care only about ONE THING and ONE THING ONLY. Power. All they want is power. Ever since the beginning it been degrading every year since then and now every person we have in congress is unfit to lead. Presidents crossed that line a long time ago.

Re-read what I wrote, nowhere did I assign the formula to a particular party.

I said that all bad will go back to the last time the opposition had power. All good when the opposition is in power is the result of the last time your party had power.

I never claimed it was purely a GOP tactic, although they seem to take it to new levels every couple years.

[LumbermanSVO]

alot of the troubles we are seeing now are from the policies back in the 90's.... when you know clinton and greenspan were running the show. its not just the republicans fault......

FYI, Greenspan is a republican ;)

When the hell did it become a sign of weakness to admit a mistake and try to correct actions/thoughts that led to the mistake?

Nobody in this country seems to want to take responsibility for anything, it isn't just the politicians. So sad...

[yg17]

Sarah Palin is amazing. My dad talked to my grandfather this afternoon, and learned that my racist grandfather, who has said such horrible things like "I don't want to see any goddamn n*****s in the White House" and was obviously voting for McCain, is now undecided. Guess what's making him change his mind? Yup, Sarah Palin. He's not yet on the Obama side, and frankly, I don't think he'd ever admit that he was, but the fact he is now undecided is just amazing. Thanks Sarah!

[NT1440]

Sarah Palin is amazing. My dad talked to my grandfather this afternoon, and learned that my racist grandfather, who has said such horrible things like "I don't want to see any goddamn n*****s in the White House" and was obviously voting for McCain, is now undecided. Guess what's making him change his mind? Yup, Sarah Palin. He's not yet on the Obama side, and frankly, I don't think he'd ever admit that he was, but the fact he is now undecided is just amazing. Thanks Sarah!

Sarah Palin: The Obama campaigns secret weapon

[bobber205]

Sarah Palin: The Obama campaigns secret weapon

Wow. I've never thought of it like that. Trust me. That person's grandfather definitely isn't the first person. I'm sure there's a large percentage of bigots that would vote for a "Black" man than some "woman". Can you imagine if Michelle was running?! :eek:

[atszyman]

Wow. I've never thought of it like that. Trust me. That person's grandfather definitely isn't the first person. I'm sure there's a large percentage of bigots that would vote for a "Black" man than some "woman". Can you imagine if Michelle was running?! :eek:

I always figured the McCain ticket was more palatable to the racist/misogynist overlap crowd since on the McCain ticket the white man is still in the top spot.

But I guess the inexperience, and the age factor could lead to the assumption that McCain/Palin could very well end up as the Palin administration in which case you have to figure out which of you're bigotries has dominance...

I really need to give up trying to understand other people, it only makes my head hurt.

[iShater]

I really need to give up trying to understand other people, it only makes my head hurt.

A very wise choice unfortunately. :o

[solvs]

Then please give me the evidence.
alot of the troubles we are seeing now are from the policies back in the 90's.... when you know clinton and greenspan were running the show. its not just the republicans fault......
the democrats are hardly guiltless in this. Policies created many years ago by both reps and dems got this ball rolling. You can put the blame on the current republican majority for letting it fester and getting this bad.
I pointed out in another thread on this a bunch of links that broke down exactly what has happened and why. I also linked to it in several other similar threads. I can again if you want, but at this point I wonder if I should even bother. Deregulation caused this. Plain and simple. Sure, there's plenty of blame to go around, but we all know who not only didn't stop it when they were warned it was coming, but actually made things worse.

It's not irony, but it is obvious to most of us what isn't going to work, and the polls reflect that.