Adobe Could Release Flash for iPhone if Apple Approves

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Flash Magazine reports (http://www.flashmagazine.com/news/detail/flash_for_the_iphone_confirmed_at_fotb/) on comments made by Adobe's Sr. Director of Engineering Paul Betlem during a Town Hall meeting at the Flash on the Beach Conference (http://www.flashonthebeach.com/).

Betlem provides some followup for comments made by Adobe's Chief Executive Shantanu Narayen in March (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/03/18/adobe-bringing-flash-to-the-iphone/). Narayen claimed that Adobe would develop an iPhone Flash player themselves and release it through the App Store. There was some debate about the feasibility of this given the restrictions of the iPhone SDK.

Betlem now confirms that an Adobe Flash player for iPhone depends on Apple's approval, but claims that a player could be made available "in a very short time" if they are given the go ahead. "My team is working on Flash on the iPhone, but it's a closed platform." He noted that Apple makes all the decisions, so in other words, the ball is in Apple's yard at this time.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/30/adobe-could-release-flash-for-iphone-if-apple-approves/)

[thevofl]

It's about time!!!!!!!

[guzhogi]

I hope they release it. A lot of websites use Flash, especially Youtube

[dirkdirk80]

this would be freaking awesome!!!

[yrsonicdeath]

Wow, this would be great. It would mean I could finally stream from NPR.org!

[ThinkBrilliant]

Not going to happen. Sorry to rain on the parade.

It's just speculation.

[Small White Car]

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari.

That said, I really DO hope that Apple allows a flash application that works the same as the YouTube application. It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it.

I can get behind that plan.

[arn]

ya, I think the chance of Apple saying it's ok is pretty small.

arn

[Yvan256]

I hope they release it. A lot of websites use Flash, especially Youtube

The iPhone/iPod touch has a YouTube application.


Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. [...] It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it. I can get behind that plan.

I also don't want to see Flash integrated into Safari for my iPod touch. I also don't see Apple adding it to Safari either, which seriously limits Adobe's plan, even as an external program (Safari would still need to be modified to open up Adobe's Flash player when a user clicks on the "Flash zone" in Safari).

Also, if more people could serve HTML5 video for Safari (both desktop and iPhone/iPod touch) and a regular video-in-a-Flash-player for all the other browsers, I'm sure a lot less people would be asking for Flash support.

[Plymouthbreezer]

I agree that a dedicated Flash application would be more advantageous than building in the support to Safari...

[decimortis]

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari.

They solve that easily with a toggle switch to turn Flash on/off at will.
I'm just tired of visiting sites and seeing the damn little Lego block staring at me.

I do see your point though, this is not a disagreement.

[ebow]

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari.

That said, I really DO hope that Apple allows a flash application that works the same as the YouTube application. It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it.

I can get behind that plan.

I would be very happy with that. Then I could watch full episodes of, e.g., The Daily Show, from comedycentral.com and not have to purchase them from iTunes. But I wouldn't get inundated with flash ads on sites.

[DaveTheGrey]

It's not that I'm missing flash on the iphone but I can understand that many people do.

[guzhogi]

The iPhone/iPod touch has a YouTube application.

True, but it doesn't have all of YouTube's content

[Kilamite]

They should.

Give users the option to enable and disable Flash for the sake of the battery life. Maybe Apple will be able to re-release that banned (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7582197.stm) advert in the UK if they will support Flash.

Java is next on the list then.

[gnasher729]

People here on MacRumors can be for or against Flash on the iPhone as much as they want, but it is Apple who decides this. And I don't think it is in Apple's best interest to have Flash on the iPhone. So Apple will politely decline Adobe's friendly offer.

[BergerFan]

...I really DO hope that Apple allows a flash application that works the same as the YouTube application. It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it.

I can get behind that plan.That's exactly how I'd like to see it and I suspect, the only way Apple ever would consider implementing it. But wouldn't it need Apple to add the plugin code to Safari first(even for just a video player), so that Safari links would work?

[poorbusker]

the only thing that apple will do that "compromises" their original idea of the iphone is they will eventually put a keyboard on it. Because apple knows that it doesn't matter how good their virtual keyboard is...business people will not seriously look at the iphone until there is a physical keyboard attached to the phone.

[gmeddles]

I don't see this getting in easily. I'd love for somebody the size of Adobe to play hardball with Apple to get the platform opened up a bit.

[fastbite]

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari.

That said, I really DO hope that Apple allows a flash application that works the same as the YouTube application. It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it.

I can get behind that plan.

I'm with you.

[Niiro13]

They solve that easily with a toggle switch to turn Flash on/off at will.
I'm just tired of visiting sites and seeing the damn little Lego block staring at me.

I do see your point though, this is not a disagreement.

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari.

That said, I really DO hope that Apple allows a flash application that works the same as the YouTube application. It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it.

I can get behind that plan.

The problem is that if it's up to Apple, then the Flash doesn't need to be a separate application. YouTube is separate even though you can play YouTube videos in Safari, because you can use it separately. Flash, you can't.

My guess is that it's gonna be just like YouTube in Safari, where it's a still screenshot of the Flash. Tap that, and the Flash player comes up like YouTube does. No need to exit Safari and no performance issues.

[3G4N]

How would they know, for sure, in advance, that the flash player wouldn't run well? Sure they could calculate, but Adobe can optimize. "One experiment is worth a thousand guesses."

I too am tired of seeing the blue-lego icon.

Why is it so unlikely? How is it contrary to Apple's view/strategy/interests of the iPhone?

[Small White Car]

But wouldn't it need Apple to add the plugin code to Safari first(even for just a video player), so that Safari links would work?

Yep. This makes my wish more of a dream than anything, but hey, I can dream, right?


They solve that easily with a toggle switch to turn Flash on/off at will.

The reason I don't like this switch idea is that I'd constantly be turning it off so I don't have to download animated banner ads and then turning it on for what I do want to see. The switch would be used constantly, which would be annoying.

The "click on what you want to see" method avoids that.

[solipsism]

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari.
Logic and rational thought have no business on these forums.

That said, I really DO hope that Apple allows a flash application that works the same as the YouTube application. It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it.
Many people would be remiss by this as they would then complain that they want embedded Flash. There is no reason, that i can see according to the SDK, that Adobe using the built-in WebKit, Google, MS and/or Mozilla can't make a standalone browser app that has Flash,Java and/or Silverlight built into the browser app. The SDK says that no plug-ins are allowed, but if you include it within the app itself then it is part of the browser, it gets launched when the browser launches, and quits when the browser closes.

It should be noted that Adobes +18 months work on Flash for the iPhone, the crappy versions of flash for cellphones and MIDs, the resource eating Flash for Mac OS X and the very noticeable delay in page rendering all point to Flash not being included as Adobe's fault. If Mac OS X still can't get a decent version of Flash why should we expect that the iPhone will?

[Hooka]

I love how everyone gets so excited for something that should have been released with the original iPhone....

[Terrador]

the only thing that apple will do that "compromises" their original idea of the iphone is they will eventually put a keyboard on it. Because apple knows that it doesn't matter how good their virtual keyboard is...business people will not seriously look at the iphone until there is a physical keyboard attached to the phone.

I imagine with the lead market share within their grasp, they don't care too much. And honestly, if they put a physical keyboard on it I would not buy it or even contemplate it. You can't make a physical keyboard as efficient and dynamic as Apple's virtual keyboard. If business people decline such an offer of efficiency and productivity, they deserve to fail with the rest of wall-street for being complete idiots.

I want flash on the iPhone, but NOT in safari.....


I WANT IT ON FIREFOX!!! FireFox 3.0 for iPhone FTW.

[Small White Car]

There is no reason, that i can see according to the SDK, that Adobe using the built-in WebKit, Google, MS and/or Mozilla can't make a standalone browser app that has Flash,Java and/or Silverlight built into the browser app.

Except, remember that Apple is rejecting things for being "similar to Apple programs." So I can easily see them rejecting a browser and saying "it's just like Safari, so no."

No matter how you slice it, the whole plan would need Apple's approval and, no matter what I want, I also agree that it ain't gonna happen.

[solipsism]

How would they know, for sure, in advance, that the flash player wouldn't run well?
If Mac OS X, which Adobe is much more intimately with and whose HW is vastly more powerful than the iPhone will get prollnged 100% peaking in all cores with Flash in all known versions, why should we jump to the conclusion that Aodbe will 'fix' it for the iPhone.

Why is it so unlikely?
See above.

[nagromme]

Mobile Safari does not allow plug-ins for a reason--and considering how much Flash crashes on desktops (and the heat/battery-drain/fan-blasts I observe) I'm skeptical of how good Adobe's creation will be. But I'd love it if it were a stable addition to Safari, with the blessing of both Adobe and Apple. A few sites need Flash for navigation, and some Flash games are fun!

But looking beyond the browser, what I'd REALLY like is to see Adobe release Flash tools to iPhone SDK app developers. This would not let 3rd-party apps read random Flash files (that would violate the terms, as its own separate app environment). It would let developers build Flash content INTO their apps, which would then be compiled and not use a browser at all. It would also let apps stream Flash video. And since it wouldn't add third-party bugs to the browser, I see Apple being perfectly willing to accept this.

This would allow things that are equivalent to the YouTube app, Pandora, etc.: standalone apps that provide a mobile alternative to a web site.

The one I most want: a Hulu app for watching TV.

No Flash plugin needed, no need for Apple to let Adobe mess with Safari. Just build the Flash-based functionality of hulu.com into an iPhone app, allowing it deliver the same content the site does.

[WhySoSerious]

100% against flash on my phone...whether it be an iphone or something else.

[jkdsteve]

Although I don't get 'all of the web' .. I love the fact that there's no flash in Mobile Safari, flash is:

1. Ugly (yeah, I know..that's down to the coders/designers)
2. A resource hog (imagine how quickly your battery would die)
3. A SPAM vector for unwanted ads and general net garbage

Horribly 'optimized' on OSX even after all this time..I dread the quality and speed of the code on the poor little iPhone CPU.

[solipsism]

Except, remember that Apple is rejecting things for being "similar to Apple programs." So I can easily see them rejecting a browser and saying "it's just like Safari, so no."

Podcaster is a completely different entity and rejected for very different reasons. There are plenty of App Store apps that are similar to the iPhone's default apps.

[mrkitty]

All this article seems to say is that Adobe wants Flash on every web platform, blames Apple for it not being allowed on the iPhone. This is not news.

We *know* that the SDK allows developers to transgress the rules with special written permission from Apple.

We also know that Macromedia and Adobe have turned "small web files" into anything but. For every site that utilizes flash video optimization well there are ten that use it to animate their menus. It's that kind of stupidity that won't work in a standalone app.

Is Adobe going to make their own browser, embedding safari with flash support? Does anyone at Adobe even remember how to code for the mac?

[hayesk]

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari.

That said, I really DO hope that Apple allows a flash application that works the same as the YouTube application. It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it.

I can get behind that plan.

I agree. That's a good compromise - then people will realize what a pig flash really is.

[Small White Car]

Podcaster is a completely different entity and rejected for very different reasons. There are plenty of App Store apps that are similar to the iPhone's default apps.

They also rejected a program that connects to g-mail for being "too much like Mail."

The point is that they're free to reject nearly anything using this argument, so if Apple doesn't want an Adobe browser on the iPhone this is a very simple way for them to stop it.

[solipsism]

But looking beyond the browser, what I'd REALLY like is to see Adobe release Flash tools to iPhone SDK app developers. This would not let 3rd-party apps read random Flash files (that would violate the terms, as its own separate app environment). It would let developers build Flash content INTO their apps, which would then be compiled and not use a browser at all. It would also let apps stream Flash video. And since it wouldn't add third-party bugs to the browser, I see Apple being perfectly willing to accept this.

That's what I'm talkin' about!

PS: I'd like to see Skyfire get an app for the iPhone. It has the potential of being the best way for a battery-dependent device to view Flash video on the web.

[gifford]

I hope not.

Flash is gash.

[ilfn143]

online class uses flash for animation, and java for test & quiz

[DonSqueak]

...Flash is a crock. A stinking pile. And Apple is very much in the right in not putting any leverage behind it.

Here's what's the problem: Adobe is trying to install Flash as an ubiquitous standard for annoying webpage behaviour. It is a resource hog and a nuisance. The same idiotic webdesigners that make websites incompatible with anything but IE and post everything in WMV are the same (or similar) ones that force Flash down our throats. Google realised this, hence the move to have H.264 as an option in YouTube.
Now, on Apple's part: Why get in bed with a whore when all you get from it is short term pleasure at the cost of VD?

Let's hope that the web is healthy enough to rid itself of Flash before it's too late.

My opinion.

Cheers, dsq.

[Farplaner]

Apple: We have the most powerful gaming handheld in the market!

Sony: Well, our PSP supports flash just fine, how about the iphone? (Flash 6 only, but still full Flash)

Apple: Oh no! Flash would never run well for the iphone!

So.... which is it?

[kayno]

the only thing that apple will do that "compromises" their original idea of the iphone is they will eventually put a keyboard on it. Because apple knows that it doesn't matter how good their virtual keyboard is...business people will not seriously look at the iphone until there is a physical keyboard attached to the phone.

Uh! I'm a business person.. I work in Corporate America.. and I say the iPhone keyboard is the best thing thats happened to keyboards.. I think the problem is people are not using the side of their brain that deals with addaptation and learning.. once they start.. they would see how convinient a virtual keyboard is... Business people are not a type of person.. they are made up by different individuals with different tastes and prefferences.. of all the iphone owners in my company only one has a problem with the keyboard and i just think its cause he's a retard!

By the Way... business people are seriously looking at the iphone do you think that the massive iphone 3G sales were primarily from regular consumers.. I went to a Lounge the other day that already have the bottle service ordering system on the iphone and are totally paperless. yes waitresses/hostesses running around with iphones... Business people are too busy to worry about keyboards.. they are looking at the functionality.. (all the updates you saw in 2.0)

Just my $1.05

[Toe]

Instead of telling this board how much you want it, why not tell Apple directly?

iPhone Feedback:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

iPod Touch feedback:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipodtouch.html

Let 'em know.

[satty]

the only thing that apple will do that "compromises" their original idea of the iphone is they will eventually put a keyboard on it. Because apple knows that it doesn't matter how good their virtual keyboard is...business people will not seriously look at the iphone until there is a physical keyboard attached to the phone.

I work for one of the top-five global consulting companies. You would be surprised how many of senior people got an iPhone... even the ones I thought are a bit more conservative.

I am pretty happy without a "real" keyboard. Th advantages to have a smaller/lighter device with maximum possible screen size is certainly preferable.

[8CoreWhore]

There must be ZERO diplomacy between Adobe and Apple! ZERO!!! Don't they speak to each other? STOP BEING CHILDISH, JOBS! You owe it to your customers and share holders to communicate with Adobe!!!

[joeconvert]

I hope they release it. A lot of websites use Flash, especially Youtube

Yea, because there is no other way to watch Youtube on the iPhone!

[Whiternoise]

This is the problem of a closed platform i guess.

Adobe could just release it as an application without Apple's say so, but it would get pulled and NDA slapped.

However, Jobsy has a point. If they put flash on there, it should be able to cope with ALL flash really - otherwise people are going to complain that it's not "proper".

[.Chris]

I hope they release it. A lot of websites use Flash, especially Youtube

theres the you tube app.

but again it would be nice to log in, rate and comment videos to.... may be youtube can develop a you tube app to do the same thing

[kironin]

They solve that easily with a toggle switch to turn Flash on/off at will.
I'm just tired of visiting sites and seeing the damn little Lego block staring at me.



Excellent point! They could have it set off by default so you would have to turn it on.

honestly this one of things that keeps me from taking the iPhone seriously as a mobile computer! :mad: I need flash!

JOBS GET THIS DONE YESTERDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NiroNavro]

Sign me up!!! I use my iPod Touch as a laptop so having Flash would make things so much easier for me.

[satty]

I would not consider Flash until there's an official Ad-Block for Safari!

I like the idea to have Flash application-specific, so the user can decide on a case-to-case basis to get an application or not.

[travishill]

Apple views Flash as a proprietary technology that is not an open web standard. You can replicate Flash functionality with a native JavaScript engine (SquirrelFish/V8/TraceMonkey/etc), SVG, and HTML5 standard Audio / Video tags. Apple believes that by investing heavily in these things (as they're obviously doing if you track WebKit closely) they can unlock the Web from Flash's proprietary grip. I, personally, hope they and Mozilla succeed in that endeavor.

Now the real debate is whether Apple should "temporarily" support Flash since there is no common alternative presently- but they view such support as opposite to their end goal of promoting the open web standards. You can make the argument both sides there, but there's no question the web will be a better place without being locked into Adobe's Flash...

[.Chris]

Apple: We have the most powerful gaming handheld in the market!

Sony: Well, our PSP supports flash just fine, how about the iphone? (Flash 6 only, but still full Flash)

Apple: Oh no! Flash would never run well for the iphone!

So.... which is it?

I hate it that apple is maming the touch sound like a gaming device this year. Why cant they just do it like they do the iphone. Make it like a portable hand held computer, mail, music, movies tv shows, appls etc

Except, remember that Apple is rejecting things for being "similar to Apple programs." So I can easily see them rejecting a browser and saying "it's just like Safari, so no."

No matter how you slice it, the whole plan would need Apple's approval and, no matter what I want, I also agree that it ain't gonna happen.

Can anyone say Firefox on the iphone :p

[Bonte]

It would make Apple extremely dependent on Adobe, if Flash screws up then Apple has to wait for Adobe to solve the problem if ever. Plus its to hard on the hardware, flash on a 600mhz PPC Mac is dog slow.

[o0samotech0o]

I reckon that releasing flash on the iPhone/iPod Touch platform could be dangerous, and thats why Jobs may not be too sure about it. Flash could be a possibility to open up A new kind of jailbreaking, but through flash instead.:rolleyes:

It could easily be done...

-Sam

[baleensavage]

Can anyone say Firefox on the iphone :p
Let's get them to improve it on the desktop before they start going mobile ;) Don't get me wrong, I love Firefox, it's just the current version is buggy.
EDIT: Besides, wouldn't that be "duplicating functionality already found on the iPhone" :p

As for Flash on the iPhone, why doesn't Adobe work on Adobe Reader first. I could use a PDF reader on my iPod touch that reads and syncs encrypted PDFs and eBooks, that doesn't require me to upload them to some Web site or buy them from some store. Forget Flash player, let's get adequate PDF support first.

And besides isn't Flash dead now that Silverlight is out :p

[FakeWozniak]

Iraq, Oil Prices, Wallstreet Crashing, and now Flash ads on my iPhone! Nooooo!!!!!

[.Chris]

I reckon that releasing flash on the iPhone/iPod Touch platform could be dangerous, and thats why Jobs may not be too sure about it. Flash could be a possibility to open up A new kind of jailbreaking, but through flash instead.:rolleyes:

It could easily be done...

-Sam
I'm sure they had done internal testing...

Let's get them to improve it on the desktop before they start going mobile ;) Don't get me wrong, I love Firefox, it's just the current version is buggy.
EDIT: Besides, wouldn't that be "duplicating functionality already found on the iPhone" :p

As for Flash on the iPhone, why doesn't Adobe work on Adobe Reader first. I could use a PDF reader on my iPod touch that reads and syncs encrypted PDFs and eBooks, that doesn't require me to upload them to some Web site or buy them from some store. Forget Flash player, let's get adequate PDF support first.

And besides isn't Flash dead now that Silverlight is out :p

Firfox on vista works fine. its internet explrer thats buggy. and this is verson 7...

sliverlight is a huge joke..... half of their websites dont even support it!

[baleensavage]

Firfox on vista works fine. its internet explrer thats buggy. and this is verson 7...
sliverlight is a huge joke..... half of their websites dont even support it!

Yeah, but you have to put up with Vista ;) The Mac version of Firefox 3 needs some work.

And yeah, Silverlight is a big joke. You hear all this talk about it being the Flash-killer and yet where are the Silverlight Web sites?

[.Chris]

Yeah, but you have to put up with Vista ;) The Mac version of Firefox 3 needs some work.

And yeah, Silverlight is a big joke. You hear all this talk about it being the Flash-killer and yet where are the Silverlight Web sites?

yep. and half of microsofts websites dont even support it and they made the player!

Though on some they are "forcing" us to download it even if we have flash installed. To me, thats just them. focing us what we want and dont want. just like in the live services beta whitch I'm in on a privite beta program

[ThirteenXIII]

im curious, if flash was already implemented into the iphone without it being this big of an issue would people have still griped about it?

if not flash, perhaps some "translator" with less bugs?
(ie; firefox w/ flash, video and content stop after short amount of time)

[Bonte]

That said, I really DO hope that Apple allows a flash application that works the same as the YouTube application. It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it.

That would still be a half solution, imagine clicking a banner ad that opens in the Flash application transferring you to the advert page in Safari that is half Flash, half HTML. Imagine that page with multiple Flash adds and games spread over the page, it can't work without some sort of preview and for that Safari needs to download the Flash movie to render the preview.

It would also be to slow for games and movies, only advertisements.

[alphaod]

Full flash won't run on the phone? No kidding! That's what Flash Lite is for!

[andreab35]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

This will be great if Flash comes to the iPhone!
But I was just thinking- would we have an overheating iPhone with Flash dedicated to the phone? I know for myself that my Gateway laptop likes to heat up when Flash is being used.
Hey I could be wrong... but just a thought :)

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

Another item on many people's check list of "things they wish the iphone had" can be checked off if this is true.

[AlmostThere]

Flex is the reason I want to see Flash on the iPhone.

From a business perspective, flash (via flex) is fairly widely used for providing interactive online reporting and analysis. This is not something easily replaced by Javascript technologies; even Google have spurned js in favour of flash for their interactive charts (e.g. google finance, for example) or introduced parallel js and flash versions (e.g. maps).

I hope Adobe will eventually open up flash entirely, it is pretty much everywhere already. If Jobs can give them a swift kick in that direction, all the better. Google's use of flash is both a testament to it's effectiveness - there is no better tool in some cases - but has also been limited by the lack of 'openness'.

[jdwingnut]

sign me up. I'll take 1

[Trajectory]

I hope this isn't forced on everyone, because I am perfectly happy to have all those Flash ads turned off on the websites I visit. Sites that rely on Flash are badly designed to begin with if they don't degrade gracefully.

No Flash on my iPhone!

[Mr. Zorg]

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari. ...

They solve that easily with a toggle switch to turn Flash on/off at will.
I'm just tired of visiting sites and seeing the damn little Lego block staring at me.

Odd that it shows the "missing plugin" icon. Also notice how when you go the the safari section of the settings app there's a toggle to turn plugins on or off? What plugins? Hmm.....

People here on MacRumors can be for or against Flash on the iPhone as much as they want, but it is Apple who decides this. And I don't think it is in Apple's best interest to have Flash on the iPhone. So Apple will politely decline Adobe's friendly offer.
You could be right. They'd probably rather have you build a native app. But it does seem *awfully* short sighted to not support something that is such a huge part (like it or not) of the web experience...

[emulator]

I reckon that releasing flash on the iPhone/iPod Touch platform could be dangerous, and thats why Jobs may not be too sure about it. Flash could be a possibility to open up A new kind of jailbreaking, but through flash instead.:rolleyes:

who needs a "new kind of jailbreaking" when the current one works flawlessy?

[bikemonkey]

Forget the iPhone. I want Adobe to optimise Flash for OS X (and Photoshop et. al whilst they're at it).

[Rybold]

EXCELLENT !!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D

There are MANY, MANY, MANY websites that I have tried to view on my phone that were not possible because of a lack of Flash support. In effect, the iPhone does not have the full internet yet. I sure hope we get Flash support! :)

[asleitz]

release it for my jailbroke iPhone. Then let me decide if I want it or not.

[Michael CM1]

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari.

That said, I really DO hope that Apple allows a flash application that works the same as the YouTube application. It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it.

I can get behind that plan.

I was about to scream, "Hey, stupid! Flash is worthless without integrating with Safari!" until I saw your second paragraph. I had never thought of that idea before. That's quite awesome if it's not too difficult for developers. The only problem is there is still a LOT of content that uses flash that isn't YouTube movies. Perhaps just let certain people do stuff like embed Flash within Safari and then have an on/off toggle in settings. Either that or tell Adboe that bloatware won't float on the iPhone. :)

[Eleonardo]

I can see the arguments for both side of this, but I'd at least still like the option in some form or another, whether by toggle or separate browser, etc.

However, while Mobile Safari is probably the premier and most capable browser out there for smart phones (I think the Nokia N800 browser blows the iPhone's away, but alas the N800 is not exactly a phone) but anyway...while Mobile Safari is probably the best out there, if this is as good as it gets at the moment for mobile browsers, then we have a long way to go.

This browser runs fairly poorly for any practical use. Sure, it's great for a quick 5-10 minute viewing of a single site, but when you start opening multiple tabs you're asking for trouble. Not only are you looking at having to reload entire pages constantly when switching between tabs, but not long after that expect a few crashes. (Yes, even after routine reboots and clearing of cache). The browser is not perfect, and far from being used with any practicality, but that isn't necessarily any fault of Apple's it is definitely still leaps and bounds ahead of most everything else out there.

Regarding Steve's comment, I can easily see how Flash would just add to the mess and how Safari would perform probably exponentially more horribly considering that the browser itself is not even stable.

However, like I first stated, with how widely-used flash is, and it being a requirement for some sites, it would still be nice to at least just have the option. People would just have to have some common sense and expect even more frequent crashes, battery drain, lag, etc when flash is turned on.

[Ironduke]

lol check out the fanboys....clowns

If its released as an app store program and u dont want it then dont download it ffs:rolleyes:

[nagromme]

lol check out the fanboys....clowns

If its released as an app store program and u dont want it then dont download it ffs:rolleyes:

Name calling is both fun and useful, but you misunderstand the situation: If it's a browser plugin, which is what people expect from Flash, then it would NOT be an app store program, it would be an update to the iPhone's own software, delivered from Apple.

(I agree with those who think that's unlikely--UNLESS Adobe has actually pulled of a higher-quality product than I expect. I'd just as soon skip the plugin and have Adobe working with various 3rd-parties on specific single-function non-browser apps.)

[Digital Skunk]

I hear that Flash barely works on some Macs (Air) so I couldn't imagine it working that much better on the iPhone.

I do hope that they do something to improve the web browsing on mobile safari and keep the iPhone a cut above the rest. Now that Opera Mobile is out, many users can get full (effective) HTML browsing from their buggy Windows Mobile Smartphones.

[Ironduke]

Name calling is both fun and useful, but you misunderstand the situation: If it's a browser plugin, which is what people expect from Flash, then it would NOT be an app store program, it would be an update to the iPhone's own software, delivered from Apple.

(I agree with those who think that's unlikely--UNLESS Adobe has actually pulled of a higher-quality product than I expect. I'd just as soon skip the plugin and have Adobe working with various 3rd-parties on specific single-function non-browser apps.)

and if it had drawbacks apple would give you an off switch ffs:rolleyes:

[dizzy13]

I doubt they would allow flash because you can create more "app like" stuff with flash vs just a webpage with fancy javascript and that could cut into apple's profits from the app store.

Although the flash based apps wouldn't be connected to the accelerator and GPS so who knows.

[jameskatt]

I would NOT approve of Flash on the iPhone.

Flash itself runs against the SDK.

Flash would make Apple dependent on Adobe to create the software. Adobe prefers to cripple the Apple versions of its products compared to the Windows versions. Adobe is often late in updating the Apple versions compared to Windows.

Flash is NOT an OPEN SOURCE STANDARD on the web. It changes at Adobe's whim.

Flash abhoridly is inefficient, contributes to crashes, uses too many resources, is not friendly to disabled persons (such as the blind).

Flash should DIE - unless Adobe gives up control, makes Flash an open-source standard.

[Eleonardo]

and if it had drawbacks apple would give you an off switch ffs:rolleyes:

This.

An off switch guys. Pretty simple concept, and if you're too lazy to switch it off/on, then just leave it off - business as usual. Again, simple concept.

[xavierserranoa]

they say is a close platform and that is for the iphoen not specifically mobile safari although it might be implied its for it maybe adobe realized the problems of releasing it as an add-on maybe they'll release it like some said as an app that lunches when needed that is secure and bugless and can be updated through the appstore

[Kilamite]

[flash] is not friendly to disabled persons (such as the blind).

Uhh - for a blind person browsing the web, what is friendly to them?

[joeshell383]

How does hovering (mouse hover) work on a phone, especially a button-less phone like the iPhone?

[jellomizer]

Apple is really moving themselfs to a fine line here. I like the idea for a review to insure the app doesn't break the phone... However it needs to get a bit more laid back on the idea that a competitor may make a competing products for it, that some people will like.

A lot of web pages uses flash. Being able to use it is an important feature, that most will like. Heck allow Microsoft put in an app that can play Microsoft Music stuff. I don't care if it a bad idea. but give them the option.

[Eleonardo]

Uhh - for a blind person browsing the web, what is friendly to them?

While I understand your view, it is a valid point. There are text-to-speech programs that do enable the blind to navigate the web. I'm sure you knew this, and when it comes to flash content, those programs are pretty useless.

[deepakhj]

Basically Flash is already done for the iPhone and it's on Apple to allow them to add it.

[sonnyjames]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

Myself as a deaf person need flash to view my "voice mail" from Hands On Video Relay Services.

[Ironduke]

This.

An off switch guys. Pretty simple concept, and if you're too lazy to switch it off/on, then just leave it off - business as usual. Again, simple concept.

problem is too many apple cherubs want apple to wipe their bums for them:D

[Pikemann Urge]

...Flash is a crock. A stinking pile. And Apple is very much in the right in not putting any leverage behind it.[...]

Let's hope that the web is healthy enough to rid itself of Flash before it's too late.
QFT. I hope developers (and their clients) move to AJAX and away from Flash very soon.

[MacFly123]

I hope they release it. A lot of websites use Flash, especially Youtube

Perhaps you have never notcied that YouTube app on your iPhone or iPod Touch that is MUCH better than YouTube's site??? :rolleyes:

Flash sucks, I haven't missed it at all on my iPhone and I don't think there is a chance for Apple to approve it. I have a much better solution... RID THE ENTIRE WEB OF THAT MONSTROSITY CALLED FLASH! :)

[nagromme]

and if it had drawbacks apple would give you an off switch ffs:rolleyes:

Apple already HAS given plugins an off switch, as noted above.

How does hovering (mouse hover) work on a phone, especially a button-less phone like the iPhone?

With Flash, where sometimes you HAVE to distinguish a rollover from a click or drag? Just to do basic things like navigate a site? Pretty poorly, I would imagine! Certainly not as well as the non-Flash alternative navigation that sites (should) bring up automatically when needed.

But here's how hover works with JavaScript, where the code is exposed to the browser's understanding--and it has worked well for JS sites on iPhone:

http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2008/08/iphone_events.html

Adobe might have to offer a couple different modes or gestures--additional complexity that a site won't help you understand--in order to make existing Flash sites useable on a pointerless platform. It would be ugly. Like two-finger tap to pop up a hover menu, one-finger to select, three fingers to drag-lock so the menu doesn't snap shut while you move your fingers away to read the text... and you're on your own to figure out that it IS a hover menu in the first place :o Or Adobe could overlay additional imagery onto each site, indicating hover areas? I can think of workarounds, but not nice ones.

And I'd still like to have it, if it's efficient and stable! (I just wouldn't want site developers to get lazy about making touch-friendly navigation, knowing that "at least the new plugin lets you have SOME access.")

[mdriftmeyer]

Really? You can create a 64 bit version of Flash for the upcoming version of the OS on iPhone? Yet you can't pull this out of your rears for Linux 64 bit?

Give me a break.

[NT1440]

I can only speak from personal experience but I have NEVER needed flash on my ipod. I havnt run across one site I go on that not having flash has ever caused a problem with. Not once.

That being said, porn is for a laptop. Im not a gamer.

Maybe flash just isn't for me?

[mdriftmeyer]

Perhaps you have never notcied that YouTube app on your iPhone or iPod Touch that is MUCH better than YouTube's site??? :rolleyes:

Flash sucks, I haven't missed it at all on my iPhone and I don't think there is a chance for Apple to approve it. I have a much better solution... RID THE ENTIRE WEB OF THAT MONSTROSITY CALLED FLASH! :)

People seem to not grasp the fact that the Flash is a wrapper and custom view around H.264.

[nagromme]

I can only speak from personal experience but I have NEVER needed flash on my ipod. I havnt run across one site I go on that not having flash has ever caused a problem with. Not once.

That being said, porn is for a laptop. Im not a gamer.

Maybe flash just isn't for me?

Flash is certainly not needed by everyone, but it is used by MANY.

My needs:

* Flash-based video--especially hulu.com but others too.

* Flash games (there a few favorites I keep coming back to).

* Looking at my clients' Flash-based sites.

* Showing my own Flash work to others.

The first two could be solved by non-browser apps with built-in Flash elements, but if a GOOD solution can give me all four, I won't complain.

(My workaround for now: look at Flash sites on my iPhone--slowly--through Jaadu, via my iMac and VNC.)

[Michael CM1]

I can only speak from personal experience but I have NEVER needed flash on my ipod. I havnt run across one site I go on that not having flash has ever caused a problem with. Not once.

That being said, porn is for a laptop. Im not a gamer.

Maybe flash just isn't for me?

My newspaper's Web site has embedded videos that you can play just like a YouTube video. It uses...Flash. So I can't watch the videos on my phone.

Like it or not, Flash is pretty much a Web "standard." When there's a site built with a heavy amount of shiny, pretty objects, Adobe is more than likely behind it. Unless someone has a better idea (that people have actually heard of and wouldn't think is a soap or soccer team), it's gonna stay there.

For the poster who said Adobe strips their products down for Mac: Have you ever used Creative Suite? That's like THE software for Macs. That's one set of apps that is the reason so many creative studios have Macs.

[lifeinhd]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F138 Safari/525.20)

ooh, they better. Ah, the things I could do with flash...

[Toe]

This thread is moving quickly, so I think it's worthwhile to repost this:

Instead of telling this board how much you want it, why not tell Apple directly?

iPhone Feedback:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

iPod Touch feedback:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipodtouch.html

Let 'em know.

[NT1440]

anyone else think flash is actually going to die out relatively soon? (3-5 years)


seems like the two major players in the OS game dont really like it that much.

Apple just doesn't play nice with flash

Microsoft has its own little projects (i believe its called silverlight?)

[randomusername]

Sure, Flash would cause crashes and battery problems but many people want it. That and Apple admitting to developing copy/paste and constant software updates shows that Apple is trying to improve it's image after the iPhone 3G problems and criticisms. Seeing what they did with 3G, something that might cause problems and not everyone wants, you'll probably be able to turn flash off if you don't want it.

[NT1440]

Sure, Flash would cause crashes and battery problems but many people want it. That and Apple admitting to developing copy/paste and constant software updates shows that Apple is trying to improve it's image after the iPhone 3G problems and criticisms. Seeing what they did with 3G, something that might cause problems and not everyone wants, you'll probably be able to turn flash off if you don't want it.

:confused:when did apple say they made copy/paste?

Did i miss something?

[Digital Skunk]

:confused:when did apple say they made copy/paste?

Did i miss something?

Nope, the iPhone still doesn't have copy paste.

[NT1440]

Nope, the iPhone still doesn't have copy paste.

k, just making sure (i dont care really, tho i think apple should implement it for those who want it)

[michaelvoigt]

Most flash websites, banners and video are going to run much, much slower on a iPhone. I would imagine that flash video might not even run at all....

Flash players for mobile devices have never worked well, they are very limited and most advanced sites will not function.

-michael

[michaelvoigt]

Take a look at your activity monitor the next time you are playing a flash game, you will probably notice your macbook at full CPU usage.

Flash games are CPU intensive because they cannot directly use video hardware. The iphone is not going to play anything but a very simple flash game....unless Adobe re-engineers the flash player to use the iphone video hardware...

[solipsism]

Apple just doesn't play nice with flash)

Correction: Adobe has never offered a decent version of Flash for OS X.

[FightTheFuture]

i welcome flash on the iPhone. who doesn't love playing those flash banner ads.

in all honesty, i haven't missed flash at all. but if it'll quell all of the 'no copy/paste - no mms - no flash' complaints by a third then why not. in fact, give the iPhone Flash Lite so everyone gets to see what they've been missing out on on the nokia n95.

[Drag'nGT]

this would be freaking awesome!!!


I can't think of a better word than awesome but if I could I would make one up because that's how wonderful this news could be.

[soundsgoodtome]

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari.

That said, I really DO hope that Apple allows a flash application that works the same as the YouTube application. It would be its own program, and when you click a flash video in safari it takes you to the Flash program if you have it.

I can get behind that plan.

Um, you've contradicted yourself.

Having Flash as a separate iPhone app would be no more efficient or battery-friendly than having it inside Safari. Your comment would make sense if you said you don't want Flash on the iPhone at all. But saying it would be OK as a separate app is illogical -- and would be inconvenient, to boot:

You'd rather be taken to a separate app, each time there's Flash content to be viewed? Then when you're done, you have to close that app, re-launch mobile Safari, then wait for it to reload the page you were viewing previously? No thanks.

A better idea: Flash is built into mobile Safari, and the user can specify via preferences whether he/she wants it enabled. If you opt for it to be disabled, you could also opt to be notified whenever you navigate to a web page that has Flash. If you choose to be notified, a bubble would pop up, asking if you want to enable Flash for just that one page. You tap "yes" (or "no"), and move on. Having to go back and forth between separate apps for Flash content is a ridiculous idea.

[RonMexico]

I love how everyone gets so excited for something that should have been released with the original iPhone....

Uh, ya

Since it should of been released with the original, users are excited that finally something they have wanted since launch could be coming.


makes sense doesnt it?

[tarkeybear]

It seems reasonable to let the consumer make the decision if Flash is that important that they will let Flash load or not.

When I go overseas, I turn off data roaming so I don't lose my shirt to data charges when I come back. Every time I need to use data (maps, stock, weather, mail, etc) I get prompted that I need to turn on data roaming. After I am done, I turn it off again, so that mail doesn't keep grabbing mail and the overseas carrier charges me per KB.

Same should go for Flash. By default a flash player should be turned off. When you enter a page that requires flash, a warning should come up asking "Would you like to turn on flash for the page you are entering? Use of Flash may dramatically reduce your battery performance."
You choose yes or no (you're a big kid now).
Meanwhile, the iPhone could display a flashing battery icon reminding you that you are in a high consumptive mode.
As soon as you move out of the page (or minimize safari) the flash player stops (and battery consumption drops to normal).
If you move to a second flash page, the same message comes up, this way you don't leave the iPhone in a high energry burn state. Maybe acknowledging these per-page warnings would be a nuisance, but I would prefer to only activate Flash when needed, and not be shut out of Flash-only web sites.

I'm not a programmer, so it sounds like a simple solution.

[randomusername]

Nope, the iPhone still doesn't have copy paste.

I didn't say it had copy/paste. I said that they were working on it. I remember reading something from THIS site when someone from Apple announced that they were working on it, it just wasn't a priority for the 2.0 launch.

[NT1440]

I didn't say it had copy/paste. I said that they were working on it. I remember reading something from THIS site when someone from Apple announced that they were working on it, it just wasn't a priority for the 2.0 launch.

that announcement wasnt an announcement and in no way said they were even working on it. It stated it wasnt that high on the priorities at the time.

[milatchi]

I still hate Flash.

[Stella]

Like it or not, Flash is a large element of the WWW.

Apple should accept Flash on iPhone and let the user decide if they want to install it.

[kjs862]

You know Apple isn't going to approve this.

[Trajectory]

Um, you've contradicted yourself.

Having Flash as a separate iPhone app would be no more efficient or battery-friendly than having it inside Safari. Your comment would make sense if you said you don't want Flash on the iPhone at all. But saying it would be OK as a separate app is illogical -- and would be inconvenient, to boot:

You're missing the point. It would allow those of us who don't want Flash sites running on our iPhones to choose which Flash items we want to view without being forced to view all Flash items on a web page. I don't see the contradiction.

[nagromme]

anyone else think flash is actually going to die out relatively soon? (3-5 years)


seems like the two major players in the OS game dont really like it that much.

Apple just doesn't play nice with flash

Microsoft has its own little projects (i believe its called silverlight?)

I think it's more that Flash itself doesn't play nice!

Either way, I don't think Flash will die out soon. It has a HUGE developer community (with SWF authoring that goes beyond just Flash itself) and a near-universal installed user base among PCs and Macs. And it really does do some exciting and useful things that cannot be done any other way--not without spending vastly more time (and therefore money).

Like it or not, Flash is a large element of the WWW.

Apple should accept Flash on iPhone and let the user decide if they want to install it.

Hopefully so. Thus far, Apple has not denied us access to Flash on iPhone--Flash on iPhone still doesn't even exist for Apple to reject! This Adobe announcement is still about the future. What Apple HAS rejected, on concept alone (and with good reason) is Flash that runs as poorly as it does on other platforms (mobile platforms included).

[Adjei]

I want flash but I want it to be reliable, Safari already crashes a lot already when I have a lot of windows open. Don't need any more headaches.

[namdnalsiroj]

I'm missing an important argument from this discussion:
One of the main reasons for Apple not to allow full Flash, is that it will give Apple less control over media content on the iPhone.
With Flash, users could potentially play music, stream audio and video, play games, etcetera.
This would mean new "derivative" markets, that Apple would have no control over, and that potentially compete with their AppStore and some of their business relations (YouTube, Google).
This would especially be true if Flash could somehow be used as a standalone "framework" for iPhone Flash-Apps, because it would then allow developers to completely circumvent the tightly controlled AppStore infrastructure.

I don't care for Flash so much, and would rather that DHTML and the such be used and developed instead.
BTW, I'm very curious to see how mouseover is solved in Flash for the iPhone.
The iPhone needs a mouseover state in Safari too, IMHO.

[hiimamac]

I don't see this getting in easily. I'd love for somebody the size of Adobe to play hardball with Apple to get the platform opened up a bit.

Amen, that's why I am rooting for Android and smaller, sleeker, open source iPhones and all the developers that got turned away to go to google.

iPhone pretty cool, not so good 3G, no flash (hello, its the back bone of media streaming, not quick time), and they sell it like the internet in your pocket. NOT. A lot of compeitition is great. I hope it comes on HARD and HEAVY and forces Apple's hand.

Tired of this closed platform.
One way street for music, podcasts, not being able to bring back to computer (unless authorized), not being able to wipe music on the device, non dedicated GPU on all the lower end Apple models.

Let's go ANDROID, let's go windows 7. (shock) :eek: But seriously, time to make it happen Apple.

[G4scott]

Flash does open up security, performance, and battery life issues, but at the same time, it's not just for ads or online video.

Ever heard of Flex? It allows developers to quickly build rich internet applications that do have use in business environments. Sure, you could develop an app specifically for the iPhone, but why do that if you could just build a Flex app that runs on anything that runs flash?

Apple shouldn't just automatically rule out flash. It could be useful to some people, and with the option to turn it on or off, it wouldn't be a pain to people who don't want it.

[ou lumberjack]

...and why now and not 2 years ago...

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Let me be clear that I DO NOT want flash within the Safari browser. Too many problems will come from it in terms of download times, battery life, and program stability when you just want to browse the web. Apple is right to keep flash out of MobileSafari.

Not to sound rude, but who cares what you or any other single person wants? I say make it available and let the PEOPLE decide for themselves whether to ADD it via the app store themselves. You know some of us would like to access sites that only support flash not think that those sites are going to change because Apple says they don't like it.

[nagromme]

...and why now and not 2 years ago...

To be fair to Adobe, even Apple's PRIVATE tools--and the iPhone OS itself--were brand new and nowhere near complete two years ago. It's a young and rapidly-changing platform, and it's clear that Apple pushed hard to deliver the SDK even a year later, and still had things (push, copy-paste, GPS heading) that weren't ready on launching the SDK.

So Adobe didn't have the tools to do this 2 years ago. Nor would it have made any sense for Apple to wait and not launch the iPhone until Adobe finished Flash. It was a chicken and egg situation, and last year--a fast growing iPhone user base but no official SDK yet--was the chicken! We only just recently got the egg.

[salvatorereda]

like this is really going to happen, ever.

sal

[happydude]

would be nice, but would be great if they give the option to turn it off when not needed.

[nagromme]

I'm missing an important argument from this discussion:
One of the main reasons for Apple not to allow full Flash, is that it will give Apple less control over media content on the iPhone.
With Flash, users could potentially play music, stream audio and video, play games, etcetera.
This would mean new "derivative" markets, that Apple would have no control over, and that potentially compete with their AppStore and some of their business relations (YouTube, Google).

Apple already allows streaming media--Pandora, Last.FM, PangeaVR, numerous photo-sharing apps, etc.--and Apple will also let you offer a free app as a front-end for a paid online service that Apple gets no cut of. (They allowed that even before there was an App Store of course, but now I'm pretty sure they allow it within apps too. For one thing, some of the free services also have a premium paid version.)

Games, however, would indeed violate Apple's terms. Apple will let you access web services or stream media, but they won't let you run apps by means other than the official SDK:

"No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple’s Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s)."

That Apple quote from Daring Fireball...
http://daringfireball.net/2008/09/adobe_speaks_of_flash_player_for_iphone
...who is sure Flash is not coming. But (although I find the site very intelligent on the whole) I feel he has overlooked two important things:

1. The possibility of Flash content BUILT IN to app store apps, courtesy of tools supplied by Adobe to developers.

and

2. You already CAN write games and other software without Apple's own SDK. They can be done in JavaScript! Flash would work the same way--it's still a Web app and not an app installed on the phone.

Think about it: If there were a Flash player for the iPhone, you could write games and other software in Flash rather than in Cocoa Touch.

But of course, Apple's own SDK has huge advantages: it supports the multitouch screen and other features, it installs apps that don't require the Internet and start right up with no Web-loading wait, and it allows sales and promotion through the App Store.

[bki122689]

hold on, let me see if i understand this.

First and i will pray that thy do release flash for iphone.

but

if adobe said that it will be an app released through app store how would it run. doesnt apps quite when you press the home button?

[bki122689]

ok let me see it understand this.

first i hope flash does come out for iphone cause i will be ********** awsome.

but

if adobe said they would release it through app store, which will make it an app. then how would flash run if every time you press a home button the app quits. Unless it is released through an update.

[Pikemann Urge]

So Adobe didn't have the tools to do this 2 years ago. Nor would it have made any sense for Apple to wait and not launch the iPhone until Adobe finished Flash.
Don't make me laugh, mate. You really think Apple is going to allow Flash on the iPhone? You really think Apple regretted Flash not being ready? If anything, Java would likely be first - not that it matters either way.

[thelordnyax]

When I first got the first iPhone...i really wanted Flash Player, and thought i needed it...but now...i can live without it, though i would certainly welcome it...

and yes, i think it'd have to be a separate application that launches from a link in safari like youtube does...

If it does function that way, i see no reason why Apple would turn it down...unless they're worried that being able to watch flash-based videos will reduce their iTunes TV show sales

[thelordnyax]

but

if adobe said they would release it through app store, which will make it an app. then how would flash run if every time you press a home button the app quits.

hmm, i'm guessing you didn't read any of the above posts saying it'd be run as a separate application like YouTube does? 'cause that'd be the only way that i think Apple would allow it, if they do...

[Pikemann Urge]

Amen, that's why I am rooting for Android and smaller, sleeker, open source iPhones and all the developers that got turned away to go to google.
I think you're making too much of the fact that some devs got rejected (fair or not, I don't know yet). It seems ATM that 90%+ of devs are happy. Let time tell on that one, though.

not being able to wipe music on the device,
I think you can, actually.

non dedicated GPU on all the lower end Apple models.
They are dedicated. Just not as powerful as we'd like.

Some folks say it's inevitable that Flash needs to come to the iPhone. I say it's inevitable that it won't. :cool:

[BergerFan]

I may have interpreted this wrong, but I'm sure Adobe only want to release a Flash video player, not to enable Flash in web pages, mirroring how You Tube works.
All that'll take on Apple's part, is just to put the code into Safari to activate the links. It shouldn't take up any more resources than the current You Tube app does.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Adobe hasn't commented on how well that version runs, but if Flash's persistently dreadful performance on Mac OS X is any indication, my personal money is on a performance rating of "Martha, get mah shotgun."

I'm with ars (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/09/30/adobe-begs-apple-to-allow-flash-on-iphone-again) on this one...

[Chortos-2]

I may have interpreted this wrong, but I'm sure Adobe only want to release a Flash video player, not to enable Flash in web pages, mirroring how You Tube works.Now this is something I would not mind. :) However isn’t a piece of ‘Flash video’ still a ‘Flash application that downloads and shows video’? :confused:

Personally, I am against Flash at all. On any platform. But, I believe, I am in the minority— As for if they do bring Flash to iPhone OS, I would, as many before me, most like it to be similar to what the YouTube plug-in for Safari is now, launching when I tap a Flash object in Safari. As for having a plug-in to use in other applications, I would be upset if developers started abusing it, creating applications that in fact do nothing but launch the plug-in to run their Flash version of the same application. Luckily, there is this ban on interpretable code, but they would sure somehow find a way around it. :)

All that'll take on Apple's part, is just to put the code into Safari to activate the links. It shouldn't take up any more resources than the current You Tube app does.It should, because the YouTube application plays H.264 video that is supported natively by the OS or the MediaPlayer application.

P.S. Adobe really isn’t the evil that has made Flash be a performance disaster, it’s Macromedia that has been developing Flash until Adobe bought them. Hopefully Adobe manages to fix Flash sometime (or better yet, people give up using Flash). Regarding ‘people in Adobe being able to program for Mac’, take a look at Photoshop.

[The Phazer]

Those who think Flash is going anywhere are wrong. Flash is doing a lot of work to build in DRM into Flash which broadcasters need to prevent capture of all that streaming content to make their business models work. It's easily a hundred billion dollar market, and the lack of DRM will mean the HTML5 tag will do nothing to replace Flash because it's too easy to capture.

The only alternative to Flash is Silverlight gaining a foothold instead, again, because it has DRM and DRM in streaming is the next big thing.

There are plenty of sites I try and struggle though on a daily basis that miss Flash. I hope it comes soon, integrated into Safari.

For a start, given the absence of any improvements in the YouTube app's navigation being beyond useless, it'd mean I could actually bother with YouTube again.

EDIT: Oh, and for UK people Flash is the only forseeable way that we're going to see downloads for the iPhone from the BBC iPlayer - Apple refuse to licence Fairplay to the BBC, so the Mac version will use Adobe AIR for the timed expiry DRM.

Phazer

[Aurial]

While I understand your view, it is a valid point. There are text-to-speech programs that do enable the blind to navigate the web. I'm sure you knew this, and when it comes to flash content, those programs are pretty useless.

What use is an iPhone to a blind person anyway, regardless of whether it has flash or not?

If you're put off Adobe because they don't cater to blind people then I'm sure you'll find many a flaw in the iPhone's design.

[twoodcc]

i really hope this gets released. i would like to see it, and i'm sure there are others as well

[jalcide]

if adobe really gets a non-flash-lite version, say 8 or above, ported and performing even somewhat reasonably, not only will i be totally blown away, but i think they should seriously consider re-porting the optimized iphone version back to the desktop. ;-)

(sorry, i'm a flash proponent and that was highly cynical of me.)

now for my real prediction...

aside from a few recent hardware accelerated overtures, the core vector/anti-aliasing/alpha-blending/compositing display engine for flash was developed almost a decade ago, with display hardware almost as low-powered as current (as of this writing) iphone display hardware. so maybe it is possible. another way of saying this, it's amazing how "flat" flash performance has been over the years with ballooning cpu power (i.e. floating point and specialized math processors) and the almost exponential performance we've enjoyed in dedicated video/gpu processing. in some alternate "slider world" the flash side of the web might have performed and scaled on the order of a "3d (or 2d) video game experience" by this time (and at fullscreen resolutions). oddly, it may be just this unfortunate resistance to perform well (the arbitrary bottlenecks) that allows flash to "magically" work on a mobile arm processor. if so, cool, but for a very back-handed reason. the flash we should have had, shouldn't have.

- jalcide

[boomchip]

Doesn't anyone realize that if they did release this as an option, you probably could turn it off if it were within Safari. Not to mention they said the plan is to release it within the App Store, meaning you wouldn't be required to download it or use it if you didn't want to.

Quit whining about battery usage... deal with it. If you want to be able to use anything Flash-driven, you'll get over it pretty quick. The iPhone/iTouch isn't meant to replace the computer, it's just an accessory to life and a convenience while not near a real computer. That being said, Flash usage on the iPhone wouldn't be as heavy as it is on the computer, and it never will be IMO.

I also love how Steve is saying that the Flash product wouldn't "run well" on the iPhone... as if he were the one developing it. Just come out and say it as you have in the past: Flash is not welcome on our platform. How about let Adobe take care of it and decide if it can be run or not?

[Pierremaison]

the only thing that apple will do that "compromises" their original idea of the iphone is they will eventually put a keyboard on it. Because apple knows that it doesn't matter how good their virtual keyboard is...business people will not seriously look at the iphone until there is a physical keyboard attached to the phone.

Absolute rubbish, I run 50 of them within my company. It is a fantastic business tool, better than any alternative I have seen.

[Nick D]

Can I haz plugins?

This would be amazing if Apple actually accepted it into mobilesafari. However, if they won't even let podcaster into the app store I highly doubt that they would let adobe make a mobilesafari plugin, esspecially since it would set a precedent for a TON of other (mostly useless) plugins.

However, a man can hope can't he? If the do accept it, they wont have to censure their ads in the EU :)

I have my fingers crossed for you adobe!!!!!

[iPhoneJoe]

while this would be a great thing, I am not counting on it

[Chwisch87]

Honestly, i don't really care about flash. Non of the sites i go to are flash sites sooo just one less thing to take up the battery. Hell its probably a good thing it doesn't since youtube switched over most of their videos to something that might take up less processor power. MORE BATTERY.

[Pooshka]

I do not want Flash.

Feedback sent.

[iEdd]

Nearly time to jailbreak?

Things like flash, Podcaster app, tethering, emulators, even VoIP over 3G and I'm sure many more great things are possible on the iPhone, but I think once something reaches about 8/10 on the awesome scale, it's not allowed by Apple. :(

Damn, I really don't want to have to jailbreak. I'll give it another few months.

Edit: I agree that flash implementation is almost always awful on websites, and I kinda wish the format would die, but seeing as it exists, having it would increase compatibility with so many more sites.

Edit 2: People that don't want flash, move along. This would be optional if implemented with enable/disable. The 3 reasons I'd like flash are:
• More compatibility with websites
• www.youtube.com [The problem with the youtube app is it doesn't support basic features, like, I dunno, actually being able to read the title of a video if it's more than about 3 words long]
• Google streetview, anywhere, anytime. :cool:

[acvball92]

please bring flash to the iphone Apple, web browsing would be so much better.

[Rybold]

Any new info on this?
When is the expected release date?

[dam0dred]

Ugh, it amazes me how Apple are so forward thinking in some ways and so stubborn and behind the times in others. Copy/paste and flash, long overdue.

Browsing on my iPhone feels so gimped without flash. So much for the "internet in your pocket."

[Nick D]

Ugh, it amazes me how Apple are so forward thinking in some ways and so stubborn and behind the times in others. Copy/paste and flash, long overdue.

Browsing on my iPhone feels so gimped without flash. So much for the "internet in your pocket."

I feel you... I need copy/paste so badly it hurts. My boss might even make me switch to a different smartphone because of it (which is kinda overkill if you ask me)

[dam0dred]

I feel you... I need copy/paste so badly it hurts. My boss might even make me switch to a different smartphone because of it (which is kinda overkill if you ask me)

Copy/paste is one of the reasons I still have to lug around a BlackBerry for work. :mad:

[gilbert1020]

It has been over a year since the 2g iphone was released,
and it does'nt seem like the Iphone will be getting Flash soon.:sad:.