Jewish ridiculousness (Australia)

[.Andy]

Just so you Americans and Brits don't think you've got a monopoly on religious nutters, we've got our fair share in Australia. And they're Jewish too which should be fun :).

Jews seek religious freedom with a ring around St Ives

A JEWISH group plans to overcome an ancient and restrictive religious commandment by creating a virtual wall around an entire North Shore suburb.

But its push for greater freedom has caused angst among some St Ives residents, who say it will block their views and create a "Jewish ghetto".

Under Jewish law it is forbidden to push or carry objects beyond the private home on the Sabbath and during holy festivals such as the Jewish new year, Rosh Hashanah, which began at sunset on Monday.

That means parents are often unable to take babies and young children to synagogues or parks because they cannot push them there in prams. Likewise, the elderly and disabled cannot be pushed in wheelchairs.

But the creation of a part-symbolic, part-physical zone known as an eruv allows Jews to carry out such activities within its boundaries.

"Really the ultimate aim is to basically help families, liberating people from their homes, such as young mums with kids in their prams," said David Guth, 32, of St Ives.

The married father of three children, including a five-month-old baby, is a member of Northern Eruv, a group seeking Ku-ring-gai Council's approval to create an eruv around St Ives.

An eruv already exists in the Waverley area, including along the promenade at Bondi Beach, but is so inconspicuous few people know it is there.

Most of the 20-kilometre boundary of the St Ives eruv would be demarcated using wires, cables and power poles owned by Optus, Foxtel and EnergyAustralia. But about 20 per cent would be formed by erecting 26 aluminium poles six metres high in 14 locations across St Ives. The poles would then be linked by a wire.

The development application drew 21 public submissions. Four, including one from the NSW Opposition Leader, Barry O'Farrell, were supportive.

Most objectors were concerned about the impact the poles would have on views but some went further, claiming an eruv would benefit one religious group at the expense of others.

The chief executive of the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies, Vic Alhadeff, dismissed the concerns, saying the plan would have little effect on the environment because it was "in the form of existing poles and wire".

lnk (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/jews-seek-religious-freedom-with-a-ring-around-st-ives/2008/09/30/1222651083064.html)

God apparently is cool with you pushing or carrying as long as you're surrounded by wires six meters off the ground. A perfect example of how religion can make you believe absurdities.



And a great reply in the letters section today;

We should protest against a wire perimeter around St Ives because it is an absurd use of time and resources. A zone that permits you to carry car keys and push prams on a Saturday without enraging your god makes as much sense as covering your head in aluminum foil to deflect thought rays from CIA satellites.

[MBX]

Looking forward to see the documentary film "Religulous"

[Scarlet Fever]

So they are requesting to be effectively put in a Jewish sanctuary?

[Anuba]

There needs to be a law that forces Jews to stop exploiting Holocaust-guilt for extorting special treatment from the rest of the world, no later than 2020, 75 years after the end of WWII. This should hopefully put an end to these ridiculous demands. Sorry folks, no more VIP line.

Anyone catch the documentary Where in the World is Osama Bin Laden? Pretty much every muslim that Spurlock met exhibited courtesy and hospitality, then he tried to talk to some orthodox Jews and they punched him in the face.

[Agathon]

I've heard of the eruv issue happening elsewhere. I guess it's stupid, but the rest of Australia has a holiday where you eat chocolate eggs to celebrate some dude's supposed rise from the dead, so it's all insane really.

To be fair, the ultra religious Jews give a really bad name to all the other Jews. A lot of them are really racist too. Come to think of it, Likudnik fanatics also give a bad name to all the other Jews by claiming to speak for them or represent their interests.

They can't win. :(

[Anuba]

I've heard of the eruv issue happening elsewhere. I guess it's stupid, but the rest of Australia has a holiday where you eat chocolate eggs to celebrate some dude's supposed rise from the dead, so it's all insane really.
Yeah, but eating chocolate is something that people, religious or not, do in the privacy of their own homes. It's not invading on anyone else's privacy, view or real estate.

These guys are talking about putting up a giant "virtual wall" around an entire suburb, using aluminium poles 6 feet high. All this because they think they've found a loophope in the Old Testament? Deeply religious people looking for a way to fool God by drawing a symbolic boundary and pretending the outdoors is an extension of their homes? Mmmkay... now I see where their propensity for law wrangling comes from.

[Sdashiki]

There needs to be a law that forces Jews to stop exploiting Holocaust-guilt for extorting special treatment from the rest of the world...

Wow, anti-semitic much?

How about the past 4000+ years of basically being God's chosen to be crapped on people...which you prove by your obviously biased nature towards the Jewish faith vs any other religion and their even weirder ways.

[TheAnswer]

Yeah, but eating chocolate is something that people, religious or not, do in the privacy of their own homes. It's not invading on anyone else's privacy, view or real estate.

I don't know about how Easter is celebrated in the rest of the world, but there are definitely the egg hunts in public parks and the Easter Bunny installed in the mall like Santa Claus.

Mmmkay... now I see where their propensity for law wrangling comes from.

Wow, anti-semitic much?

+1

[Dagless]

I had no idea they weren't allowed to push or lift objects during holidays. What a terribly odd rule :confused:

[Sdashiki]

What a terribly odd rule :confused:

I say that about every religion.

[Anuba]

Wow, anti-semitic much?
Nope. I'm just anti-anyone who plays The Card as soon as someone questions why the rest of the world should bend over backwards to comply with some minority's every whim and ridiculous demand for special privileges.

[BoyBach]

Maybe I've misunderstood this, but the community wants to create their own Jewish Ghetto? Have they got particularly short memories?

[Sdashiki]

Nope. I'm just anti-anyone who plays The Card as soon as someone questions why the rest of the world should bend over backwards to comply with some minority's every whim and ridiculous demand for special privileges.

No idea where thats coming from.

This aint the rest of the world, its a small community in Australia.

You are singling out Jews as playing "the card", what card?

Special privileges? What?

[Anuba]

Maybe I've misunderstood this, but the community wants to create their own Jewish Ghetto? Have they got particularly short memories?
Yeah, let's see... a wired fence, 6 meters high, now where did I see that before...? Hmmmmmm.

[Anuba]

No idea where thats coming from.

This aint the rest of the world, its a small community in Australia.

You are singling out Jews as playing "the card", what card?

Special privileges? What?
No, you played the card. I questioned why on earth an Australian suburb would allow itself to be enclosed by a wall just because some religious nuts can't push or carry stuff otherwise over fear of retribution from the flying spaghetti monster, and it didn't take long before someone was there with the "anti-semite!" card. I'm all for everyone having equal rights, but I'm vehemently against anyone being granted special rights on the basis of representing some ethnic or religious minority, and I'm even more against the nasty habit of exploiting collective guilt as negotiation leverage. I don't care if they're Jewish, gay, Muslim or tin foil hats, the audacity of asking that a WALL be put up around an entire SUBURB is just sickening.

[TheAnswer]

Nope. I'm just anti-anyone who plays The Card as soon as someone questions why the rest of the world should bend over backwards to comply with some minority's every whim and ridiculous demand for special privileges.

Yet your posts went straight to "the Jews" and the Holocaust. You didn't attack the fact that these are wacko fundamentalist Jews with a crazy idea, but approached as "the Jews" trying to get away with something.

Then you made that generalization about their propensity for law wrangling.

I think the issue is more about the fact that they are fundamentalists who just happen to be Jews, and the fact that their behavior is akin to those of other fundamentalists groups.

I'm even more against the nasty habit of exploiting collective guilt as negotiation leverage

The article didn't mention the Holocaust. You were the first to bring it up. You appear to have assumed to know their negotiation tactics.

[joepunk]

Seems like a weird and complicated way of getting around the it is forbidden to push or carry objects law/rule.

[kixsand]

I'm all for everyone having equal rights, but I'm vehemently against anyone being granted special rights on the basis of representing some ethnic or religious minority, and I'm even more against the nasty habit of exploiting collective guilt as negotiation leverage. I don't care if they're Jewish, gay, Muslim or tin foil hats, the audacity of asking that a WALL be put up around an entire SUBURB is just sickening.

This would have been a good place to start and end. Several of your comments made in this thread seem to be coming from a different place.

JMO

darren

[toothpaste]

No idea where thats coming from.

This aint the rest of the world, its a small community in Australia.

You are singling out Jews as playing "the card", what card?

Special privileges? What?

For example, some black people in the US think white people "owe" them 40 acres and a mule because of slavery as well as equal rights.

Jews think that things are "owed" them because of the Holocaust or because they were forced to build the Pyramids. So while I'm not crapping on anyone's religion or beliefs, demanding special treatment because of religion makes you a ridicule target of mainstream society. Jews separate themselves from all over groups, instead of living in peace with everyone.

This is an example of the separation I speak of;

random stranger "where are you from? I hear an accent"
me "I was born in Europe and learned English in South Africa, hence the accent"
A Jew "I'm Jewish"

Nobody asked about your religion, just where you were from. These are the kind of Jews that live in New York City so that's my experience and my $.02, which by the financial failure in the US is not worth much.

[Sdashiki]

For example, some black people in the US think white people "owe" them 40 acres and a mule because of slavery as well as equal rights.

Jews think that things are "owed" them because of the Holocaust or because they were forced to build the Pyramids.

I love how you say "SOME black people", but then say THE "jews" implying everything you know about them can be applied to every single one, everywhere.

And how is that not racist/anti-semitic?

Jews separate themselves from all over groups, instead of living in peace with everyone.


Nope, thats your opinion.

I dont know where, other than generation after generation of stereotypical racism, people get this idea that every single Jew on the planet thinks they deserve anything but the basic freedom afforded to all human beings.

Thats your opinion or your interpretation of what youve seen.

Just dont go complaining when someone says "thats anti-semitic" when it clearly is. Just because Jews have their own term, or whatever, for racism against them, doesnt make them special.

David Cross once said, and im paraphrasing here: "No baby pops out the womb saying 'The jews have all the money', you're taught that."

[Anuba]

I think the issue is more about the fact that they are fundamentalists who just happen to be Jews, and the fact that their behavior is akin to those of other fundamentalists groups.
Yes, that was my primary assumption as well, but then again most religious kooks don't even bother to put forth such demands. I very much doubt that Australia's buddhists ever requested infrastructural remodeling that catered to them. It also takes a pretty hefty sense of entitlement. And more often than not, that perceived entitlement is used as leverage. Last year a group of African immigrants in Sweden demanded that Sweden should apologize for slavery. There is zero rationale for this, since Sweden was never ever in its history a part of that business -- heck, I doubt any black people even set foot in Sweden before the 1930's, and this group probably knew that. They just wanted to power trip on seeing white people crawl in the dust, that's all. Swedes, Americans, who cares, all white people are the same, right?

Then you made that generalization about their propensity for law wrangling.
How is that a generalization? When 12% of all New Yorkers are Jews, but 65% of all lawyers in NY are Jews, is that a pattern or a coincidence? Seen a lot of Asian lawyers on the news lately?

[Sdashiki]

How is that a generalization? When 12% of all New Yorkers are Jews, but 65% of all lawyers in NY are Jews, is that a pattern or a coincidence? Seen a lot of Asian lawyers on the news lately?

Jewish people like practicing law? Wtf are you even trying to say here?


Im done posting in this thread. People will have their opinions, as racist as they are, and they can not be changed.

In closing, Id just like to say that most football and basketball players are black. So its not a generalization when I say that every black person must be athletic. They MUST be, just look at basketball and football!

:(

[yg17]

Yes, because a few Jews in Australia are making some demands, and a bunch of Jews in New York are lawyers, all Jews are kooks who are going to use the Holocaust and their vast legal knowledge that every Jew baby receives in exchange for its foreskin to make ridiculous demands that are a burden to the rest of society :rolleyes:

Or maybe, these Jews in Australia are just nuts and not representative of the entire religion. Just like Bin Laden doesn't represent all Muslims and Falwell doesn't represent all Christians. Hell, I'm Jewish, i've never demanded a thing due to the Holocaust, and I'm a complete idiot when it comes to the law.

[xy14]

to the comment regarding 12% of people in NYC are jewish and 65% of lawyers in NYC are Jewish..

That just means they are more successful and know how to invest in their future. Christians get four continents (N.A., S.A. Aussie, and Europe) and they are ridiculed but when Jews want a town that means they are evil? As long as they use it to the same extent as anyone else would, who cares? They still pay taxes and obey the laws like everyone else. Given that in NYC they are 5x as likely to be lawyers as everyone else, I'm sure they could do that town pretty good.

[Anuba]

Yes, because a few Jews in Australia are making some demands, and a bunch of Jews in New York are lawyers, all Jews are kooks who are going to use the Holocaust and their vast legal knowledge that every Jew baby receives in exchange for its foreskin to make ridiculous demands that are a burden to the rest of society :rolleyes:
Yes, isn't stereotyping fun? As for myself, I'm a Swede. I talk like the Swedish chef, my name is Inga and I'm a 6'4" blonde with braided hair. I'm sexually promiscuous beyond belief, and I wear a viking helmet when I drive my Wolwo down to Ikea where I eat my daily meatball and lingonberry jam breakfast. Bork bork bork, jaa!
Christians get four continents (N.A., S.A. Aussie, and Europe)
They "get" four continents? No, they lived in Europe long before Christianity reared its ugly head. As for NA and Aussie, they took those whether the natives liked it or not. Jews are the only ones who were literally given a country. Here in Sweden we're predominantly atheists and agnostics, and if any Christians plan on taking our land we're gonna put up a good fight.

[iJohnHenry]

Les Nessman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Nessman) has the answer.

From Wiki:

Les works in the WKRP bullpen, a big room with desks for several of the employees. Les believes that as the news director, he should have his own private office, so he puts masking tape on the floor around his desk indicating where walls would be if he had his own office. He insists that anyone who approaches his desk must knock at an imaginary door and wait for permission to come in. He mimes opening and closing a door whenever he sits down at or leaves his desk; once he even took out a set of keys to lock the nonexistent door.

All of his colleagues respect his insistence on maintaining his own private space, and play along with his "walls" charade. Mr. Carlson even "knocks" by clicking his heels together. (Andy Travis once tapped his foot against the floor for the sound effect.)

In the second episode of "Filthy Pictures", Andy is shown with a credit card, trying to open Les' imaginary door with it.

:p

[thejadedmonkey]

My (jewish) summer camp did that. They just used a string though...

[NSNick]

If the Jews really do control the law and the media and the banks, is it really wise to provoke them?

[iJohnHenry]

I understand their desire for "no work" on the Sabbath, what I don't understand is their definition of "work".

Looking after family is not work, IMO. Going to Synagogue is certainly not work, surely.

They can't cook, but they actually have stoves for Orthodox Jews, that are set and forget. Not even a light comes on when you open the door on the Sabbath to serve dinner. But, the oven still cooks the dinner placed inside the night before. :rolleyes:

[toothpaste]

I love how you say "SOME black people", but then say THE "jews" implying everything you know about them can be applied to every single one, everywhere.

I didn't say "The Jews" nor did I imply about all Jews everywhere, just my experience in New York City. Please re-read what I wrote.

And how is that not racist/anti-semitic?

I did not use any racist terms at all, and I'm not anti-semtic at all. I had family sent to Oświęcim for hiding Jews during the war. Since I believe you are Jewish because my remarks upset you greatly, you should know what and where Oświęcim was/is. I don't harbor any hatred towards those actions, just learned that sometimes you have to look beyond yourself to notice other people. Maybe you should do the same.

I dont know where, other than generation after generation of stereotypical racism, people get this idea that every single Jew on the planet thinks they deserve anything but the basic freedom afforded to all human beings.

So you make a generalization about me making a generalization? I based my opinion on what I have seen here in New York City.

Thats your opinion or your interpretation of what youve seen.

Yes it is my opinion, not fact nor did I say "all Jews are that way". Please re-read what I wrote because you are getting upset at a point of view.

Just dont go complaining when someone says "thats anti-semitic" when it clearly is. Just because Jews have their own term, or whatever, for racism against them, doesnt make them special.

David Cross once said, and im paraphrasing here: "No baby pops out the womb saying 'The jews have all the money', you're taught that."

Not sure who David Cross is, honestly I don't care either. My upbringing seems to be in question here, so let me be brief. I didn't learn anything bad about people from my parents or grandparents. People showed me bad things about themselves, I judge a person by their actions towards me not by skin color or religious affiliations.

Hope this clears up any questions that you may have had.

[OutThere]

I find that even questioning the rationale or actions (whether or not faith related) of Jewish people can provoke accusations of anti-semitism, both from Jews and non-Jews alike. To me that is absurd, political correctness gone way overboard.

Not being 100% supportive of the state of Israel is a recipe for being called a anti-semitic bigot, as well. If a colony of n-th generation Native Americans took back Delaware by guile and force, and then proceeded to shell parts of the US that tried to fight back, would it be reasonable for everyone to be expected to be supportive of the new Native American statehood, and to insult and demean un-supportive people as anti-Native and racist?

I'm not anti-semitic in the slightest...several of my best friends are Jewish, I've dated Jewish girls...but at the same time I dislike the sense of entitlement that is behind the state of Israel and the feeling that the rest of the world shouldn't be able to comment or criticize the actions therein.

[ntrigue]

Yeah, let's see... a wired fence, 6 meters high, now where did I see that before...? Hmmmmmm.

The irony! My favorite part about religious observance is there will always be some elaborate scheme to remain subservient while breaking the laws.

[iShater]

I think this is a violation of the spirit if not the letter of the law. However, this is taking "work" to a whole new level.

[Peterkro]

Since when was stringing wires at a height of six metres been considered a wall and how does it effect anyone else in the area,there is one in North London for example.As a example of religious nuts in action, sure it is but I don't believe it has much effect in the real world.

[Anuba]

Since when was stringing wires at a height of six metres been considered a wall and how does it effect anyone else in the area,there is one in North London for example.As a example of religious nuts in action, sure it is but I don't believe it has much effect in the real world.
I don't think it's the idea of the actual wire that bugs people, it's just that the whole thing sounds so hypocritical and stupid. So they're all in awe of this omnipotent God of theirs, right, and this God has supposedly dictated that they should rest on certain days and not perform any activities that even resemble labor. I think it's safe to say that the gist of his command is that he wants them to rest, period. But at the same time they think that this God is so mindbogglingly daft, that if they put up this symbolic boundary and call it a wall, he'll go "oh, a WALL, well in that case you're free to do whatever you want on Sabbath". I mean, the original rules for an eruv clearly specify that it must be a chatzer, i.e. a walled courtyard. When this became impractical they just updated the rules and allowed for a "symbolic" wall?! In that case why not go all the way and have an entirely imaginary wall?

What assurance do they have from their God that whatever arbitrary boundary they've put up is OK with him, anyway? What if someone builds a new house in the outskirts of the town, do they just extend the wire and call it Eruv 2.0, but before the house was built, it wasn't OK to push baby carriages and wheelchairs in that area? If you're near the edge of the eruv and grandpa in the wheelchair accidentally slips from your hands and starts rolling down the hill, do you run and catch him and then wait until the Sabbath is over before you can wheel him back into town, or do you have to freeze and watch as he rolls out on the freeway?

I wonder what they'll say if I open a restaurant in their town and serve them meals that are actually just outlines of meals that I've drawn on paper?

It all reminds me of a scene in an 80's Swedish comedy where these army guys are holding this big field exercise. The protagonist and his buddies are in an army truck and are about to drive over a bridge, when they're stopped by a couple of guys guarding the bridge, who say...

- Halt! Sorry, the bridge has been blown up. You can't drive here.
- What do you mean, "blown up"? The bridge is right there!
- Well yeah, but it's an exercise, buddy. We're pretending that it's been blown up. You'll have to turn back and find another way.

So they reluctantly turn back, then a few minutes later the truck comes back again at full speed toward the bridge, this time with the word "HELICOPTER" painted on the side.

[iShater]

That skit sounds hilarious :D

[skunk]

There is actually a large eruv in NW London, too.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2182994.stm

[Anuba]

That skit sounds hilarious :D
It's 7 minutes 51 seconds into this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liDb9jvwGaw). You won't understand a word but the pictures speak for themselves I guess.