Biden Lied 14 Times

[Aranince]

http://www.johnmccain.com/McCainReport/Read.aspx?guid=343ba934-6417-4b65-ac9e-92348acb5e97


1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

And here:
http://townhall.com/columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/10/03/biden_tells_14_lies_during_vp_debate

[dual64bit]

Kind of looks like smoke and mirrors, at least Biden didn't look like a fish out of water like.. geesh, whatever her name is, I can't seem to remember now....

[balamw]

Don't get your fact checks from the candidates. They were both misleading on a large number of issues from a non-partisan point of view.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

Biden and Palin debated, and both mangled some facts.

* Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.

* Biden incorrectly said “John McCain voted the exact same way” as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides.

* Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.

* Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level.

* Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.

* Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the government of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.

* Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.

For full details on these misstatements, and on additional factual disputes and dubious claims, please read on to the Analysis section.

EDIT: Another view from the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7649833.stm

B

[rdowns]

The least the McCain campaign could have done was to provide a link or 2. :rolleyes:

[Aranince]

The least the McCain campaign could have done was to provide a link or 2. :rolleyes:

Yea...I said the same.

[RacerX]

Of course the point of this topic was to push the thread title rather than to have an honest discussion about the debates. I mean I could start a thread titled "McCain loses temper and strikes a voter", and no matter what comes of the thread itself, the title would have the same desired response that this one does... That some people will not double check the facts and believe the title.

Aranince has no understanding of anything outside of the right wing talking points he has been fed. Which is fine (for him), everyone has the right to choose how informed (or ill informed) they are. But until he is capable of independent thought, maybe his ability to create threads should be limited (or moderated).

If the McCain campaign wishes to post their stuff here, great... because at least then we could make them stand behind what they are saying. But this mindless parroting is getting old.

[skunk]

Yea...I said the same.If it was not substantiated, why post it? :confused:

[mactastic]

I can't believe McCain actually HIT a voter. What an ass!




;)

[yrsonicdeath]

EDIT: Another view from the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7649833.stm

Thanks for posting this, I'd been looking for something similar.

[bobber205]

"Citing" the candidate's website is about as valid as "citing" yourself. :rolleyes:

[dukebound85]

I can't believe McCain actually HIT a voter. What an ass!




;)

ass as in democrat? baadaabing lol

haha jk

[leekohler]

Should we count how many times Palin lied or simply dodged the question?

[gotzero]

At least Biden competently answered the questions. I was so disappointed that he did not take any of the 100+ opportunities to intellectually destroy that debutante.

It is simply embarrassing that a candidate can announce that they will not answer challenges and questions in a debate. Biden had obviously been coached not to tear her apart, and it was really too bad.

Every candidate lies/messes up nuances each time they speak, but there is a huge difference between that expected behavior, and the continuation of the Cheney doctrine of simply not talking to the public they "serve". I am disgusted.

I was not a fan of Biden before, but I am now turning into a donor.

[freeny]

Should we count how many times Palin lied or simply dodged the question?

yes

[Thanatoast]

Okay, I'm gonna call you out on 10, 11 and 14.

10 - One of the centerpieces of McCain's (and the Republicans in general) campaign is "getting government out of the way". He didn't just start this slogan, it's been around forever. Not to mention that Palin used it almost seconds after saying Wall Street needed more regulation

11 - The surge has not worked. It has reduced violence but it has not brought the Iraqi government closer to reconciliation nor has it gotten us any closer to leaving. We're now spending even more money and we're still no closer to whatever amorphous definition of victory is in vogue this week.

14 - BS. Marginal tax rates will be lower under Obama than Regan. Get over it.

[kainjow]

Palin winked too many times.

[freeny]

Palin winked too many times.

Sassy B*tch :mad:

[Aranince]

"Citing" the candidate's website is about as valid as "citing" yourself. :rolleyes:

How are you suppose to know what a candidate stand for then?

[rdowns]

How are you suppose to know what a candidate stand for then?

A candidate can publish all the promises they want.

When they claim an opponent lied, they should cite evidence otherwise it's campaign BS. Sorry, but it smells of the desperation of his campaign which all started with his faux campaign suspension. Voters saw right through it and the resulting meltdown.

Even Sarah holding her own couldn't save him. Looking very ominous for them.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUpg/SOVAgI3HrhI/AAAAAAAAALs/7h_bNIQH_aA/S1600-R/1002_mainchart.png

[TheAnswer]

How are you suppose to know what a candidate stand for then?

There are tons of fact check sites or new orgs doing fact checks in this instance.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to base your personal opinion of a candidate on a combination of their agenda as put forward on their site, your assessment of their character and an analysis of their record, etc.

However, going to an opponent's site to check the accuracy of a candidate isn't the best opinion (to put it lightly).

[freeny]

Even Sarah holding her own couldn't save him. Looking very ominous for them.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUpg/SOVAgI3HrhI/AAAAAAAAALs/7h_bNIQH_aA/S1600-R/1002_mainchart.png

how current are those numbers?

[rdowns]

how current are those numbers?

Took it right off www.fivethirtyeight.com

[Aranince]

Ok, did some research. Not all were lies.


1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.


http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

"Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level."


2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/05/19/three-prominent-democrats-rejected-sen-barack-obamas-position-of-meeting-unconditionally-with-iran/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/22/AR2008052203016.html


3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/03/biden-changes-tune-opposes-offshore-drilling/

"Barack Obama didn’t take running mate Joe Biden to the woodshed for his remarks Monday on offshore drilling, which broke from Obama’s strong reservations to it. But Biden on Wednesday nonetheless offered a different opinion: “I’m against it.”"


4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810030010?f=h_latest

"Summary: In reports on the vice presidential debate, CBSNews.com, MSNBC.com, and FactCheck.org all falsely claimed that Sen. Joe Biden's statement that Sen. John McCain "voted against funding the troops" in a 2007 appropriations bill was wrong. In fact, while McCain did not vote on a later version of the appropriations bill, he voted against the measure on March 29, 2007, and said at the time that he was opposing it, in part, because it "would establish a timeline" for U.S. withdrawal from Iraq."


5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/01/fact-check-do-obama-and-biden-oppose-clean-coal/

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Biden_No_coal_plants_here_in_America.html


6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/Issues/17671aa4-2fe8-4008-859f-0ef1468e96f4.htm

http://www.alternativeenergy.com/group/politics/forum/topic/show?id=1066929%3ATopic%3A36973


7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/us/politics/01mccain.html

"To do so he is proposing a major tax change that he hopes will make the insurance marketplace more competitive and less expensive in part by encouraging more people to buy health insurance on their own instead of receiving it from their employers."


8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

She did support windfall profits tax: http://www.mccainfactcheck.com/facts/11/palin_windfall_profits_tax_344511.shtml


9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

Biden was right: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081002/news_1n2afghan.html


10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

For it after he was against it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/16/AR2008091603732.html?hpid=topnews


11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/5492

"Most significantly, however, Biden, who chaired the Senate Foreign Relations Committee during the lead-up to the Iraq War during the latter half of 2002, was perhaps the single most important congressional backer of the Bush administration’s decision to invade that oil-rich country."


12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

http://origin.barackobama.com/taxes/

"Obama’s plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP). The Obama tax plan is a net tax cut – his tax relief for middle class families is larger than the revenue raised by his tax changes for families over $250,000. Coupled with his commitment to cut unnecessary spending, Obama will pay for this tax relief while bringing down the budget deficit."


13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”



14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/2/12/is-obama-really-the-liberal-reagan.html

[RacerX]

How are you suppose to know what a candidate stand for then?Well, you went to the McCain site to find out about Biden... did you also go to the Obama site to find out about Palin?

I've never been to Obama's site or McCain's site (and haven't been to Biden's site since December of last year). And I surely wouldn't get my information about who they are running against from those sites.

The scary thing is that you were unable to realize this on your own.

... And even though you did some research, it hasn't changed the title of this thread, has it? :eek: You've got a long way to go in my book before you pull yourself out of the mindless sheep category thanks to this thread's title.

[Aranince]

You want me to change it to say he lied 11 times instead? That makes a huge difference. Even I posted links to about the lies, I'm still a mindless sheep? Wow.

Just like republicans blindly follow their republican candidates, democrats blindly follow their candidates.

[leekohler]

You want me to change it to say he lied 11 times instead? That makes a huge difference. Even I posted links to about the lies, I'm still a mindless sheep? Wow.

Just like republicans blindly follow their republican candidates, democrats blindly follow their candidates.

Perhaps- but I see a lot more Democrats acknowledge the flaws in their candidates than I see Republicans. And trust me- if Obama gets elected, you won't see a forum more critical of him than this one. If you take some time and look through this forum, you'll find tons of us have slammed Obama repeatedly, including me. Sorry, but I don't see the same thing going on across the aisle very often.

[Aranince]

Perhaps- but I see a lot more Democrats acknowledge the flaws in their candidates than I see Republicans. And trust me- if Obama gets elected, you won't see a forum more critical of him than this one. If you take some time and look through this forum, you'll find tons of us have slammed Obama repeatedly, including me. Sorry, but I don't see the same thing going on across the aisle very often.

I have NEVER seen any critical posts on this board about Obama. As for reaching across the aisle...I'm not too thrilled with McCain. His flip flopping and lies are making me dizzy.

[leekohler]

I have NEVER seen any critical posts on this board about Obama. As for reaching across the aisle...I'm not too thrilled with McCain. His flip flopping and lies are making me dizzy.

You haven't looked very hard then, or you're new. During the months leading up to the nomination, there were tons of nasty threads about Obama AND Hillary. I slammed him right after it became apparent he'd gotten the nomination for doing some very questionable flip-flops. But I'll tell you something- I don't want Palin anywhere near the White House. She is terrifying. So, Obama looks pretty good in contrast.

[bobber205]

You want me to change it to say he lied 11 times instead? That makes a huge difference. Even I posted links to about the lies, I'm still a mindless sheep? Wow.

Just like republicans blindly follow their republican candidates, democrats blindly follow their candidates.

It's nice you did more research, but it's still pretty bad to go to a campaign known for their outright lies to see how the other side lied. Watch Keith Olbermann today. Nearly every "fact" Palin claimed was off. The McCain campaign had to do some correcting this morning.

[Aranince]

It's nice you did more research, but it's still pretty bad to go to a campaign known for their outright lies to see how the other side lied. Watch Keith Olbermann today. Nearly every "fact" Palin claimed was off. The McCain campaign had to do some correcting this morning.

Then I guess both camps have problems. The problem is I don't like Obama's policies.

[SMM]

http://www.johnmccain.com/McCainReport/Read.aspx?guid=343ba934-6417-4b65-ac9e-92348acb5e97



And here:
http://townhall.com/columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/10/03/biden_tells_14_lies_during_vp_debate

:p - John McCain.Com? You must be joking. I have given up thinking he is a liar. He lacks enough intellect and integrity for him to even know what honesty means.

[nanofrog]

Thanks for posting this, I'd been looking for something similar.
+1 :)
Perhaps- but I see a lot more Democrats acknowledge the flaws in their candidates than I see Republicans. And trust me- if Obama gets elected, you won't see a forum more critical of him than this one. If you take some time and look through this forum, you'll find tons of us have slammed Obama repeatedly, including me. Sorry, but I don't see the same thing going on across the aisle very often.
FISA comes to mind. :rolleyes:
I didn't like the fact that he voted for it, and IIRC, you also made similar statements.
Then I guess both camps have problems.
Ah...The nature of politics. :p

Though I may not agree with everything Obama has done, I have to admit McCain/Palin terrifies me. I seriously question his ability, and even if he'd be able to complete the term if elected. Palin being that close to the Presidency really scares the hell out of me.

[RacerX]

Just like republicans blindly follow their republican candidates, democrats blindly follow their candidates.Then maybe you should reconsider your allegiances to any party. I realized long ago that people within these parties put their parties before the country.

But while both parties are bad... the Republicans have been venturing past ethically questionable and into the area of illegal activities. Sure, the Democrats (as a party) have the potential to do the same, but they haven't. At least the Democrats realize that that type of activity turns off it's base (where as it seems to energize the Republicans base).

But that is why I'm registered as an independent.

But a good question would be why do you stomach the hypocrisy of your party?

For example, the McCain ads attempting to link Obama to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Because you are a Republican you most likely never questioned that ad or if McCain had any links to the two failed institutions. But from what I can tell, at least 7 of McCain's top advisor had affiliations with the two institutions *... Mark Buse (chief of staff for Sentor McCain) lobbied for Freddie Mac from 2003 to 2005
Rick Davis (campaign manager) lobbied for Freddie Mac to 2006, firm (Davis Manafort) received payments until August 2008
Charlie Black (chief political adviser) lobbied for Freddie Mac from 1999 to 2004
Wayne Berman (national finance co-chairman) lobbied for Fannie Mae from 2004 to 2008 and for Freddie Mac in 2004
John Green (congressional liaison) lobbied for Fannie Mae from 2004 to 2007 and for Freddie Mac in 2003
Arthur Culvahouse (vice-presidential search team) lobbied for Fannie Mae in 1999, 2003, and 2004
William E. Timmons Sr. (Presidential Transition) lobbied for Freddie Mac from 2000 to 2008So why would the McCain campaign run an ad attacking Obama's links when people like these are working for McCain?

Frankly, you should be looking at all this stuff critically.

But you won't. You've made your choice long ago and are now looking for anything (even lies) that will support your choice.

You want me to change it to say he lied 11 times instead? That makes a huge difference. Even I posted links to about the lies, I'm still a mindless sheep? Wow.Yes you are.

Why not change it to something like McCain Campaign propagates lies about Biden... after all (by your own research), if they weren't correct in their corrections of Biden, then they must be just as guilty of lying as Biden.



* Most of this information can be found in Senate Office of Public Records' Lobbying Disclosure Act Database (http://soprweb.senate.gov/index.cfm?event=choosefields)

[Aranince]

:p - John McCain.Com? You must be joking. I have given up thinking he is a liar. He lacks enough intellect and integrity for him to even know what honesty means.

I posted the bottom of the first page with sources for each claim.


The whole Freddie Mac issue is that they donated HUGE sums of money to the Obama campaign.

EDIT: And most of the lies they claim are correct, which is why I posted supporting links. If I found a majority of them were false, I would have stated that I did my research and found these lies are false.

The reason why I stomach that crap is because of what the candidates stand for. I want offshore drilling, I want AWNR drilling, I want us to pull out of iraq slowly, I do not want a 50% death tax that will take 50% of my inheritance, and I don't want Obama raising taxes which will make life worse.

[RacerX]

The whole Freddie Mac issue is that they donated HUGE sums of money to the Obama campaign.The ad was about who was "advising" Obama on economics. The person (Franklin Raines) shown in one ad as an Obama advisor was nothing of the sort. He stated that he had no affiliation what so ever with the campaign and that his only connection was a couple phone calls from Obama staffers.

Both campaigns got huge sums of money.

The reason why I stomach that crap is because of what the candidates stand for. I want offshore drilling, I want AWNR drilling, I want us to pull out of iraq slowly, I do not want a 50% death tax that will take 50% of my inheritance, and I don't want Obama raising taxes which will make life worse.Silver spoon... I get it. It is in your best interest to post disinformation here.

You don't need to say another word, you have a strong motivation for your stance... you have a future windfall to protect (though I think this also shows motive for the death of the person you plan on getting all that money from :eek: ).

[mgguy]

It's nice you did more research, but it's still pretty bad to go to a campaign known for their outright lies to see how the other side lied. Watch Keith Olbermann today.

Yeah, Olbermann/MSNBC is a really impartial source to go to get the skinny on lying by democrats. :rolleyes:

[balamw]

EDIT: And most of the lies they claim are correct, which is why I posted supporting links. If I found a majority of them were false, I would have stated that I did my research and found these lies are false.

Unfortunately, many of the links you provided seem to be commentary by those who are already pre-disposed to confirm your position. Or in other cases have little or nothing to do with the actual accusation.

For example: On Alternative Energy, Biden's claim is that John MccCain's voting records does not indicate strong support of alternative fuels regardless of what the candidate says now.

You provide two links. One from Candidate McCain which I will not even deign to read and one from alternativeenergy.com that does not say anything about McCain's voting record.

So what is the value in your links to demonstrate that Biden "lied" about this?

Here's what an independent source sounds like:

Biden said four times that McCain had voted 20 times against funding alternative energy. However, in analyzing the Obama campaign's list of votes after the first presidential debate, we found the number was actually 11. In the other instances the Obama-Biden campaign cites, McCain voted not against alternative energy but against mandatory use of alternative energy, or he voted in favor of allowing exemptions from these mandates.

So essentially, the number of votes was stretched a bit, but McCain still has no record of supporting alternative energy legislation. So the point remains. Yet, somehow you count this as a Biden lie. :rolleyes:

B

[bobber205]

Yeah, Olbermann/MSNBC is a really impartial source to go to get the skinny on lying by democrats. :rolleyes:

Yeah.. the sources andfacts they presented are REALLY in the tank for Obama. Did you watch on what you critisize?

[bobber205]

I posted the bottom of the first page with sources for each claim.


The whole Freddie Mac issue is that they donated HUGE sums of money to the Obama campaign.

EDIT: And most of the lies they claim are correct, which is why I posted supporting links. If I found a majority of them were false, I would have stated that I did my research and found these lies are false.

The reason why I stomach that crap is because of what the candidates stand for. I want offshore drilling, I want AWNR drilling, I want us to pull out of iraq slowly, I do not want a 50% death tax that will take 50% of my inheritance, and I don't want Obama raising taxes which will make life worse.

This is one the dumbest things you could ever have said. You do realize it would make about a 1% difference in available oil in about 10 years? Ooooh. That sounds great! :rolleyes:

[Prof.]

I really love ur (John McCain) source.

[mactastic]

I have NEVER seen any critical posts on this board about Obama. As for reaching across the aisle...I'm not too thrilled with McCain. His flip flopping and lies are making me dizzy.
Read the FISA thread. For one example.

Then I guess both camps have problems. The problem is I don't like Obama's policies.And which policies of his do you find distasteful?

The whole Freddie Mac issue is that they donated HUGE sums of money to the Obama campaign.
Employees, mostly lower level ones who are not in a position of influence within the company, donated to Obama.

And of course, in true Republican fashion, you neglect to mention that not only did executives at F&F (who are in a position of influence within the company) also donate HUGE sums of money to the McCain campaign, they were paying McCain's top strategist millions of dollars for "access" to McCain.

That crashing sound you here is another one of your talking points coming down in a heap.

The reason why I stomach that crap is because of what the candidates stand for. I want offshore drilling, I want AWNR drilling, I want us to pull out of iraq slowly, I do not want a 50% death tax that will take 50% of my inheritance, and I don't want Obama raising taxes which will make life worse.
Drill baby drill won't solve anything. It will, at best, slow the decline in the rate of domestic oil production. And it won't do anything for the prices at the pump for 7-10 years.

How slow is slowly? is 14 months slow enough? Or do you need a full 100 years to complete the pullout?

Unless your parents are worth several millions of dollars, you're not going to be touched by the so-called "death tax".

[kabunaru]

ass as in democrat?

I am independent so I do not care what you said.

[macfan881]

the Op Topic Fails..

[solvs]

An opposing viewpoint:

Friday Talking Points [50] -- Can I Call You Joe? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-weigant/friday-talking-points-50_b_131800.html)

They both stretched the truth a couple of times, but this is almost exactly what Rove said on Fox News after the debate (I believe he said 16 times, but I've also heard 11).

[SRSound]

I just came here to say...

What if John Adams, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington (et al) had been a bunch of "Joe six-pack" ordinary folks? What if they decided to just complain about lack of representation at a pub in Boston instead of meeting in Philadelphia to form the Congressional Congress? Had they been anything less than extraordinary, anything less than brilliantly passionate intellectuals, we'd likely not be having any election come November.

As Americans we owe it to them, and to ourselves, to make the best decision we can when the time comes to elect our future leaders. A decision based not on who we relate to best, but who we truly believe will guide our country towards the brightest future, who will inspire us to change for the better, and who will restore the values on which this country was founded. Make no mistake: "Folksy" and "average" are not qualities of a world leader. Have you not learned what happens when you elect the guy who you'd rather have a beer with? Do you really want more of the same? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GMww19uz4Y)

We can't risk anything less than extraordinary; please vote OBAMA/BIDEN '08 (http://maps.google.com/vote)