Mac Pro CPU Upgrade Question Need Help

[iGrant]

Hey Guys,

I trying to help my Dad out. He has a Mac Pro with 2 x 2Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon processor. I know an upgrade is possible on this machine, but what I want to know is can I upgrade the machine with two 54XX series Intel Xeon Processors and make his Mac Pro a 8-Core Mac. Here are the ones I am looking into ordering for my Dad and installing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117151

Or we might getting one that is even faster, but still apart of the 54XX series.

Thanks
iGrant

[Umbongo]

The original (1,1) Mac Pros do not support 5400 or 5200 series processors according to those who have tried it. Selling and buying a faster system will likely be the best option.

[iGrant]

The original (1,1) Mac Pros do not support 5400 or 5200 series processors according to those who have tried it. Selling and buying a faster system will likely be the best option.

What do you mean by (1,1)???


Thanks
iGrant

[grue]

What do you mean by (1,1)???


Thanks
iGrant

First generation, first revision.

[bearcatrp]

You can upgrade the processors. I have the same system and been looking at doing this. Here is a link... http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6 . You have to use clovertown processors. The 3ghz are 1200 per processor at newegg. You can grab a refurb octo for almost the same price as buying 2 quad processors. The 2.66 is a bit cheaper though. You might want to wait and see if the new mac pro's coming out with the i7 processors are worth it. From what I have read, it should be an enormous speed bump. Not sure of the cost though. At least the older pro's should drop in price. I'm waiting until the new one's come out before deciding myself.

[Sun Baked]

(1,1) is the value of the computer model machine identifier string, when you drill down to -- About this Mac > More Info > Hardware > Model Identifier > MacPro1,1

[tobyg]

Basically 5100 and 5300 series chips are compatible, and 5200 and 5400 are compatible as far as chipsets go. That's the easy way to remember it. The old Mac Pro (1,1 and 2,1) versions were based on 5100 and 5300 CPU's. The newest Mac Pro which already has quad core chips (3,1 I believe) are based on the 5400 chips.

I just upgraded my old (1,1) Quad 2.66 (Dual-Dual is what I would rather call it) to Dual Quad chips. I went the route of 5320's and did the BSEL mod to mod them from 1.86ghz and 1066mhz fsb to 2.33ghz chips at 1333mhz fsb. When using single threaded apps I am losing a bit of performance, but comparing things like Handbrake I'm seeing a 1.6-1.7x improvement, which would make sense. I went from 10.64ghz to 18.64ghz. I happened to find a deal and picked up two matched chips (same SL spec number SL9MV and same stepping) for $150 each. Seemed like a pretty cheap upgrade to quad core CPU's.

I hope this helps.

[fiatlux]

Are any 53xx CPU compatible? In particular, I see that there are E5310/5320/5330 and 5335/5345 models out there.

I am looking at a used Map Pro (original model, everything stock apart from RAM @ 4GB) and would not mind upgrading the CPU if can be done at a reasonable cost. I know about Apple's refurb store but halas that's not an option where I live.

[tobyg]

All of the E53xx series should be compatible. I'm not sure about the L53xx series. But the E5310/5320 will run at 1066mhz FSB unless you do the BSEL mod. The E5335/5345/5355/5365 should run at the native 1333mhz fsb by default without the BSEL mod.

[tonyl]

I'm also thinking to upgrade my Dual 2.0 Mac Pro with 5300s. Someone at insanelymac got 2.4ghz engineering samples with 1066FSB and BSEL mod to 3.0ghz.

[chipchen]

First generations Mac Pro's still sell for crazy high prices... a bit of an anomaly in the computer world. This is mainly due to the fact that the 2nd generation came out with more features, but at a higher price...

The second the 3rd generation Mac Pro's come out, the first generation prices will plummet, like the DOW did today (yesterday I guess).

MY guess, you can probably sell your Mac Pro 4-core 2GHz for about $1700-$1800. Sell it in december.. then... hopefully new Mac Pro's come in January with a price drop back to the $2500 mark or less.

[sangosimo]

socket 771 iirc. Just use any chip that is apple uses in their boxes and you shouldn't have a problem

[nightfly13]

As my sig says, I have an first gen. Mac Pro with 2x2.66ghz for 4 cores total. It's extremely difficult for me to bring my equipment over here to India, so I really want to maximize the life of the box.

Checking eBay I see 2x2.33ghz Clovertown (quad core instead of my present dual core) for $400 shipped - maybe cheaper if I win auctions. Cheap upgrade to double my number of cores, but at a slight loss of clock speed. I'm not hitting any kind of bottle neck, I'm thinking more for when Snow Leopard comes out and having 8 cores will be better - and I'm concerned that if I wait 2 years to upgrade I won't be able to find any 'ancient' Clovertown processors to upgrade to at that point in time.

I know nobody knows much about Grand Central and Snow Leopard, but do you think it's a worth-while upgrade?

Also, just to sneak in a second question, do you have to have matched pairs for processors? Say I find a deal on just one 3.0ghz Clovertown, can I stick one of those in? Do both processors have to be identical?

Thanks guys!

[Umbongo]

The processors have to be identical. If you aren't utilizing all 4 cores most of the time then don't bother doing anything. Grand Central isn't going to automatically make more cores useful. It has to be taken advantage of by developers so it would be wiser to wait and see what the developers of the software you intend want 8 cores for do with it. Right now, for most things, more MHz are better than more cores so stick with what you have. 2.33GHz Clovertowns are going to be on the used market for a long time to come yet so I wouldn't worry about not being able to find them in the future.

[nightfly13]

Interesting feedback. I think I'll do as you suggest: wait and see if Snow Leopard will bring real life benefits. Wish faster Clovertowns weren't insanely expensive. I'll keep watching on eBay.

As for Grand Central's benefit, here's a pasted excerpt - I'm not disputing your claim - just parroting the marketing hype in ignorance :)

It talks about how the industry is moving from faster clock speed to more cores... "Grand Central takes full advantage by making all of Mac OS X multicore aware and optimizing it for allocating tasks across multiple cores and processors."

I do wonder if that means, like it sounds, that all bundled Apple Apps (Mail, Safari, iTunes etc.) will be multicore aware, unlike now where only Plex and Visualhub (among the apps I use) are multicore aware.

8 cores processing 3kb emails will be awesome :D

[yaysprinkledirt]

I'm thinking of upgrading my two dual-core 2.00GHz Woodcrests (5130) to two quad-core 2.33GHz Clovertowns (E5345). My only concern is that the power consumption of my Woodcrests is 65W each, while the Clovertowns consume 80W each. I'm wondering whether I'd need to upgrade my heatsinks as well.

Thanks.

[Umbongo]

I'm thinking of upgrading my two dual-core 2.00GHz Woodcrests (5130) to two quad-core 2.33GHz Clovertowns (E5345). My only concern is that the power consumption of my Woodcrests is 65W each, while the Clovertowns consume 80W each. I'm wondering whether I'd need to upgrade my heatsinks as well.

Thanks.

No you don't need to.

[Ronchande]

Basically 5100 and 5300 series chips are compatible, and 5200 and 5400 are compatible as far as chipsets go. That's the easy way to remember it. The old Mac Pro (1,1 and 2,1) versions were based on 5100 and 5300 CPU's. The newest Mac Pro which already has quad core chips (3,1 I believe) are based on the 5400 chips.

I just upgraded my old (1,1) Quad 2.66 (Dual-Dual is what I would rather call it) to Dual Quad chips. I went the route of 5320's and did the BSEL mod to mod them from 1.86ghz and 1066mhz fsb to 2.33ghz chips at 1333mhz fsb. When using single threaded apps I am losing a bit of performance, but comparing things like Handbrake I'm seeing a 1.6-1.7x improvement, which would make sense. I went from 10.64ghz to 18.64ghz. I happened to find a deal and picked up two matched chips (same SL spec number SL9MV and same stepping) for $150 each. Seemed like a pretty cheap upgrade to quad core CPU's.

I hope this helps.

Hi,

can you show me a URL where this BSEL mod is exactly shown?

Thanks!

Ron

[sunnyvalejohn]

I'm thinking of upgrading my two dual-core 2.00GHz Woodcrests (5130) to two quad-core 2.33GHz Clovertowns (E5345). My only concern is that the power consumption of my Woodcrests is 65W each, while the Clovertowns consume 80W each. I'm wondering whether I'd need to upgrade my heatsinks as well.

Thanks.

I am thinking of doing the same thing. Looks like a good idea if you can pick up the E5345's for a cheap price. The higher speed CPus ramp up exponentially in price.

[grue]

First generations Mac Pro's still sell for crazy high prices... a bit of an anomaly in the computer world. This is mainly due to the fact that the 2nd generation came out with more features, but at a higher price...

The second the 3rd generation Mac Pro's come out, the first generation prices will plummet, like the DOW did today (yesterday I guess).

MY guess, you can probably sell your Mac Pro 4-core 2GHz for about $1700-$1800. Sell it in december.. then... hopefully new Mac Pro's come in January with a price drop back to the $2500 mark or less.

1. Anything with an Apple logo retains value better than it should.

2. The first gen prices will not likely "plummet", simply drop a little.

3. Notwithstanding the fact that that time has already passed due to the age of this thread, anyone who expects the Mac Pro to get CHEAPER is delusional.

[sibruk]

I am also looking into the costs of upgrading my Mac Pro 1,1 (2 x Dual 2.66GHz processors - Intel model 5150).

I've been looking at all of the following 1333MHz FSB processors:
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9RU - Existing 5150 (Woodcrest Dual 2.66GHz, 65nm)
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLAED - X5365 (Clovertown Quad 3.0GHz, 65nm)
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLASB - X5450 (Harpertown Quad 3.0GHz, 45nm)
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLANP - X5460 (Harpertown Quad 3.16GHz, 45nm)
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLBBF - X5470 (Harpertown Quad 3.33GHz, 45nm)

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/xeon5000/specifications.htm - comparison matrix

I don't understand the earlier comment about 51xx/53xx not being compatible with 54xx. Everything I have read about the introduction of Harpertown (54xx) suggests the 45nm models are interchangeable with the 65nm models. Why would this not be the case for Mac Pros?

Has anybody here done an upgrade to one of the above processors, and if so, could they confirm whether it is working?

[bozz2006]

the harpertown (54xx) processors are NOT compatible with the 1,1 mac pro. if you have a woodcrest (51xx) mac pro and wish to upgrade to 8 cores, you must use clovertown (53xx) processors

[sibruk]

the harpertown (54xx) processors are NOT compatible with the 1,1 mac pro. if you have a woodcrest (51xx) mac pro and wish to upgrade to 8 cores, you must use clovertown (53xx) processors
Do you know why, and also for sure, bozz2006? As I say, I have read that all the 1333MHz FSB 54xx chips are normally interchangeable with the 1333MHz 51xx/53xx range. This would mean that the Mac Pros are unique in this respect.

[Umbongo]

Do you know why, and also for sure, bozz2006? As I say, I have read that all the 1333MHz FSB 54xx chips are normally interchangeable with the 1333MHz 51xx/53xx range. This would mean that the Mac Pros are unique in this respect.

They have been tested by others. There is (or was) a long thread on the insanelymac forums about building your own Mac Pro and people in there tested them.

It's a firmware thing I guess and Apple have no interest in making them work. It certainly wouldn't be the first time firmware/bios updates were needed to get compatible processors working, it happens all the time on the PC side.

[sibruk]

They have been tested by others. There is (or was) a long thread on the insanelymac forums about building your own Mac Pro and people in there tested them...
OK, thank you for confirming. So it looks like the fastest processor I can put in my Mac Pro 1,1 is going to be a 5365 then... I'd better get saving!

[Umbongo]

OK, thank you for confirming. So it looks like the fastest processor I can put in my Mac Pro 1,1 is going to be a 5365 then... I'd better get saving!

You can get 5355s for under $300 each on eBay if you check often :)

[Ronchande]

You can get 5355s for under $300 each on eBay if you check often :)

Yep. Got 2 5355 Engineering samples for 450,- Euros, which was fair IMO. Sold the old ones for 150,- , so just 300,- for the upgrade. :D

[bozz2006]

got my two ES QVQF 5355's for $155 each on ebay. I'm awaiting them now. UPS should deliver them tomorrow!

[Ronchande]

got my two ES QVQF 5355's for $155 each on ebay. I'm awaiting them now. UPS should deliver them tomorrow!

Wow, great price! :)

[bozz2006]

Yeah I could hardly believe the price. Now I'm trying to find a screwdriver suitable for removing the CPU heatsinks, and not having much luck:mad:

[nanofrog]

Yeah I could hardly believe the price. Now I'm trying to find a screwdriver suitable for removing the CPU heatsinks, and not having much luck:mad:
Can you post a close-up of the screw?

It might help. :)

[bozz2006]

It's a torx T15. The bit isn't the problem. The problem is finding a screwdriver with a long enough shaft to reach it.

I made a thread about it, lol. Hope I can figure it out. I think I may have found a suitable screwdriver HERE (http://www.tecratools.com/product933.html) but I'm not thrilled about the $17 shipping charge.

[nanofrog]

It's a torx T15. The bit isn't the problem. The problem is finding a screwdriver with a long enough shaft to reach it.

I made a thread about it, lol. Hope I can figure it out. I think I may have found a suitable screwdriver HERE (http://www.tecratools.com/product933.html) but I'm not thrilled about the $17 shipping charge.
Must it be 16.5"?

Somehow, I don't think you'd find it cheaper. You could try Sears, home improvement stores, or auto parts stores to find one locally, but I wouldn't expect less expensive. Only convenience.

FleaBay on a long shot. :p

[bozz2006]

swing and a miss on ALL of those.

[Makindosh]

I am going to buy the new Mac Pro with 2.66GHz and was wondering if I will be able to upgrade to 2.93GHz if I need to? If yes, is it easy to upgrade it in this new machines?

Thanks!

[bestthereis27]

So the 5100 Woodcrest Processors can be upgraded to the 5300 Clovertown processors. Same heat syncs? Is it just a straight forward swap? Do i need to do anything in OSX to enable anything?

Thanks.

[bozz2006]

I am going to buy the new Mac Pro with 2.66GHz and was wondering if I will be able to upgrade to 2.93GHz if I need to? If yes, is it easy to upgrade it in this new machines?

Thanks!

You can probably upgrade it, but why would you? that's a ton of money thrown away for a pretty meager upgrade. we don't know how easy it will be since nobody actually has one yet.

[bozz2006]

So the 5100 Woodcrest Processors can be upgraded to the 5300 Clovertown processors. Same heat syncs? Is it just a straight forward swap? Do i need to do anything in OSX to enable anything?

Thanks.

straight up.

[gugucom]

up again, because the issue is still ongoing. the question is:

can a pair of 5355 or 5365 fitted to the MacPro1,1 without any other mods particularly considering the higher power consumption?

[nanofrog]

up again, because the issue is still ongoing. the question is:

can a pair of 5355 or 5365 fitted to the MacPro1,1 without any other mods particularly considering the higher power consumption?
Yes, it can be done. :D

Here's an blog article (http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6663792.html) where the 5355's were installed. ;)

[gugucom]

Thanks nanofrog. Gould article this one. It talks about not doing this at home but I have exchanged CPUs on G5s and would think it is not such a daunting task once you have the special torx screw drivers and manage to remove the bloody fan unit they designed for the MacPro1,1. My concern realy was the thermal design power that goes up considerably. You get 110 W more on the two CPUs. If Apple have factored the higher thermal power in at the design point I'm pretty impressed with their foresight. If they didn't you will pay with shorter life. I also would expect the fans to work harder at full load.

[bozz2006]

It can be done at home. You just have to know what you're doing (no problem thanks to several very good walk-throughs that can be easily found online), and steady hands. and the extra heat is absolutely not an issue. the factory 53XX mac pro is the exact same machine as the original 4 core machine. exactly. my cores idle at around 90-95 degrees farenheit and they get up to about 130 degrees when encoding movies with handbrake, all cores fully maxed out.

[gugucom]

It can be done at home. You just have to know what you're doing (no problem thanks to several very good walk-throughs that can be easily found online), and steady hands.

Excellent news, bozz2006. Can I bother you to give me a hint to the walk-throughs? I have wasted many days to find a AASP manual for PM G5s and have no desire to repeat this exercise with the Mac Pro. If you know where it is please drop a link or the google search words.

[Tesselator]

I used this guys: http://www.o0o.it/pro/ in combination with this one: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=3 and here are the steps I took without in-line images:

Materials needed: 1 Flat screwdriver,
1 Philips (+) screwdriver,
One Torx driver or an Alan-wrench,
About 50 ML of acetone,
A clean cotton or linen rag,
Thermal paste,
Aluminum foil,
Some workspace, :p
Of course the new CPUs you're about to install, :D
2 static-guard wrist bands,
And cotton gloves,
(CPUs are actually not supposed to be handled without fine-weave cotton gloves but if you don't mind a little risk factor you don't absolutely NEED them). I did mine without the gloves or anti-static wrist-bands. :eek:


Procedure: Lay down about a 2 or 3 foot strip of aluminum foil flat on your workspace - to one side and out of the way.


Unplug your Mac Pro and depress power button for several seconds.


Unlock and remove the case' side panel.


Lay the machine down flat on your workspace.


Remove both RAM trays and set them onto the aluminum foil strip.


Remove all HDDs and sleds and set them on the aluminum strip.


Remove any PCIe cards that are installed and place them on the aluminum foil strip.


Locate and remove the CPU shroud (http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/mac/MacPro/heatsinkshroud.jpg). Here is where the flat screwdriver comes in. Pry it gently so that the shroud slides left toward the rear fans and then rotate the right edge up toward the drive bays and slightly up out of the machine at the same time.


Locate the single (+) screw than holds the rear fans in place and remove it. It's at the top right of the Rear Fan module near drive bay one.


Lift the rear fan module (http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/mac/MacPro/OnWindows/cpufan_sm.jpg) straight up and out of the machine. Take a second at this time to notice the plastic guide-locks that it slides on so that you can reassemble it correctly.


Next remove the left plastic guide partition (http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/mac/MacPro/OnWindows/plasticguard3_sm.jpg) that your RAM trays slide on.


Locate and unplug the two (1 (http://www.o0o.it/img/mp/06.jpg) and 2 (http://www.o0o.it/img/mp/07.jpg)) cpu thermal sensor connectors. Grab them by the headers and pull straight up - gently.


Use the torx driver or the allen-wrench to unscrew the four torx bolts holding the heat-sinks in place one heat-sink at a time so that one doesn't topple over while you're removing the other. If you chose an allen-wrench be careful not to bend any heat-sink fins. If you do tho don't worry it won't hurt anything - you'll just have a bent fin. :)


Rotate slightly to break any bonds that the now dry thermal paste formed, lift and remove the heat-sinks (again one at a time).


Remove the old CPUs and set them on the aluminum foil.


Clean all 6 surfaces with the acetone and the rag. Dip a small portion of the rag into the acetone. Clean the two new CPUs first, then the copper bottom of the two heat-sinks, then the old CPUs so you can store or sell them. You want absolutely no finger oil or particulate matter on any of the surfaces!!!


Put the new CPUs in place. They're notched so they only go in one way. :)


Apply a THIN layer of thermal paste to the tops of the CPU heat spreader. About like this (http://www.o0o.it/img/mp/13.jpg) but without the sloppiness. Spread it around with a thin piece of cardboard like from a cigarette carton or cereal box. Do NOT use your fingers and make sure that the cardboard edge is cleanly cut and not frayed. Remember, no finger oil or particulate matter. We're not overclocking and these are xeons so it's not hyper-critical but it's still very important to achieve the coolest running system possible.


That's it, we're done. Now just place the heat-sinks back in place (straight down and rotate very slightly back and forth to mush the thermal paste onto every part of the contact surface), tighten the torx bolts, and work backwards to reassemble the system.


My x5355 CPUs idle at 25c ~ 30c depending on the air-temperature BTW. This is exactly the same as the x5150's they replaced.


.

[bozz2006]

Tesselator has some good stuff there. Here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=661839) is a link to the thread that kind of chronicles my 8 core upgrade. A little long, but lots of stuff is covered in there. Here are three websites that I found particularly useful. I think Tesselator linked to a couple of these in his previous post.


Number One (http://www.hardmac.com/articles/70/page1/)

Number Two (http://www.o0o.it/pro/)

Number Three (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=3)

Hope this helps, and I'm glad to try answering any questions that may come up.

[gugucom]

Thanks to both of you Tesselator and Bozz2006 for the excellent documentation. I am confident that I can do the job once I have found a pair of affordable 53xx Xeons.

[bozz2006]

just wait, and keep checking ebay. i got mine for $155 apiece.

[gugucom]

yes, but I would love to get the x5365s. They are not available under 600$ at the moment. That is a bit steep and I will wait and see what comes along.