Doggone it, if Obama ain't a terr'rist. You betcha!

[BoyBach]

Palin makes Obama terrorist claim

US Republican vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin has accused the Democratic presidential candidate, Barack Obama, of associating with terrorists.

She said he had been "palling around" with an ex-member of US-based militant group Weather Underground, which opposed the Vietnam War in the 1960s.

Mr Obama once served on a charity board with a member of the group, but he has denounced its activities.
A Democratic spokesman accused the Republicans of gutter politics.

"What's clear is that John McCain and Sarah Palin would rather spend their time tearing down Barack Obama than laying out a plan to build up our economy," Hari Sevugan said.

Commentators say Mrs Palin's attack forms part of a broader Republican strategy to attack Mr Obama's character.

Denunciation

Speaking to supporters in Colorado and later in a Los Angeles suburb, Alaska Governor Palin said the time had come to take the gloves off.

Quoting a New York Times article, she attacked Senator Obama over his link to Bill Ayers, a founder of the Weather Underground, which waged a violent campaign against the Vietnam War.

The group was blamed for a number of bombings in the US in the 1960s.

Mrs Palin described Mr Obama as someone who saw the US "as being so imperfect... he is palling around with terrorists who would target their own country".

Mr Obama served on a charity board several years ago with Mr Ayers, who is now a professor at the University of Illinois.

The White House hopeful, who was a child when Weather Underground was active, has denounced Mr Ayers' radical past.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7653132.stm


The pathetic US election campaign of 2008 continues apace in it's race to the bottom.

[és:]

They are straight out of the gutter.

[Thomas Veil]

They are straight out of the gutter.Been there, done that. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=574636) ;)

[IJ Reilly]

How do you spell desperation? This kind of attack only appeals to blood-and-guts right wingers. Everybody else sees it for what it is.

[Eric Piercey]

How tacky.

[Marble]

Is "palling around" a verb specific to Palin, like "to obamanate"?

[Dont Hurt Me]

How tacky.True its so fake and smells of draft dodger Karl Rove. Its like saying John McCain is a communist because he spent so much time associating with his captors?
Just a boatload of crap but what else can the republicans do? Its not like they can point to anything they have done except spend,spend and spend.

[atszyman]

Wait, is this the same Palin that kept knocking Biden for looking at the past in their debate?

If this election is supposed to be about the future, why is she looking at Obama's past?

[Delta608]

Bwahhh...Libs just love to play victims....Bwaaaaaaaaa :D:D:D:D

[EricNau]

Its like saying John McCain is a communist because he spent so much time associating with his captors?
During the preliminary nominations, I heard nearly those exact words from a republican.

Just sayin'.

[mgguy]

How do you spell desperation? This kind of attack only appeals to blood-and-guts right wingers. Everybody else sees it for what it is.

Really? I believe it was George Steponallofus who first raised the issue in one of the debates between Hillary and Obama. Seems he thought it was something that voters, not just the blood and guts type, might be interested in. I do recall that Hillary herself raised Ayers as an issue (no Republican she). If the Ayers issue is without substance, then I would think the Obama fans would be happy to have it aired so they could knock it down and then say how unfair McCain was in raising it.

[RacerX]

Bwahhh...Libs just love to play victims....Bwaaaaaaaaa :D:D:D:DWell, at least this smear is coming from someone who knows how smears work.

Rick Davis (McCain Campaign Manager) outlined exactly how such a smear works and why it is effective in an article called: The anatomy of a smear campaign (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/). Of course in that article he is writing from the position of the injured party (discussing the 2000 Bush campaign's attacks on McCain in South Carolina).

:rolleyes:

So Delta608, does that mean that they are Libs too... having played the victims in the same type of attack? :eek:

[Iscariot]

Bwahhh...Libs just love to play victims....Bwaaaaaaaaa :D:D:D:D

What kind of sound is "Bwahhh," or "Bwaaaaaaaaa" for that matter? Shouldn't it be bwah ha ha ha or something? You ought to at least use an onomatopoeia that makes some kind of sense.

Screeeeeeegggggg Conservatives just love to play victims, wllllggggfffppptttt ;) ;) ;) ;)

[freeny]

Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel :rolleyes:
$20 this totally backfires on them...
People who live in glass houses ;)

[RacerX]

Its like saying John McCain is a communist because he spent so much time associating with his captors?

During the preliminary nominations, I heard nearly those exact words from a republican. And maybe it is a valid point now. McCain was subjected to Manchurian torture techniques. And for a long time I believed that those techniques were ineffective... until our own government started using them on people.

It made for an interesting movie (the 1962 Manchurian Candidate), but I doubt that enough people even know of that movie for it to play any part in the campaign.

What one has to wonder now is that if "The heels are on, the gloves are off" does this mean that Palin is ready for a closer look at her life now? :rolleyes:

[obeygiant]

What kind of sound is "Bwahhh," or "Bwaaaaaaaaa" for that matter? Shouldn't it be bwah ha ha ha or something? You ought to at least use an onomatopoeia that makes some kind of sense.

Screeeeeeegggggg Conservatives just love to play victims, wllllggggfffppptttt ;) ;) ;) ;)

"bwaaa" or variations of it are the internet version of crying. crying like baby.

[rdowns]

"bwaaa" or variations of it are the internet version of crying. crying like baby.

Why use a word when a picture will do?

http://www.gamejonez.com/baby-crying.jpg/baby-crying-full.jpg

[mgguy]

Loe Leiberman also raised the Ayers issue on a news program a few hours ago. He's not a Republican. If my memory serves me well, he was the Democrat vice presidential nominee 4 years ago. It hard to make the case that he is a "blood and guts politician." And those who do try to make that case may need to question the judgement of Al Gore for selecting him as his running mate.

[3rdpath]

according to the AP:
But while Ayers and Obama are acquainted, the charge that they "pal around" is a stretch of any reading of the public record. And it's simply wrong to suggest that they were associated while Ayers was committing terrorist acts. Obama was 8 years old at the time the Weather Underground claimed credit for numerous bombings and was blamed for a pipe bomb that killed a San Francisco policeman.

During her stop in California, Palin was asked about an Associated Press analysis that said her charge about Ayers was unsubstantiated, a point made by other news organizations, and the criticism carried a "racially tinged subtext that McCain may come to regret."

palin replied "the associated press is wrong".

i'm sure she 'knows' this because she can see the associated press from alaska...

[IJ Reilly]

Really? I believe it was George Steponallofus who first raised the issue in one of the debates between Hillary and Obama. Seems he thought it was something that voters, not just the blood and guts type, might be interested in. I do recall that Hillary herself raised Ayers as an issue (no Republican she). If the Ayers issue is without substance, then I would think the Obama fans would be happy to have it aired so they could knock it down and then say how unfair McCain was in raising it.

It did come up months ago, and the substance (or lack thereof) at the time was the same as now: none. It's only coming up again now because the McCain-Palin ticket is slipping so they need to throw some red meat on the floor, even if it's just the old wormy kind. Translation: desperation.

[mgguy]

according to the AP:
[B]But while Ayers and Obama are acquainted, the charge that they "pal around" is a stretch of any reading of the public record.

What is troubling is the accusation that Ayers hosted a campaign contribution event for Obama some years ago at his (Ayers') home and Obama attended. At that time, Obama would have known of Ayers' involvement with the Weathermen and his terrorist activities. If this accusation is true, it raises legitimate concerns that should be debated about Obama's judgement as an adult.

[RacerX]

Loe Leiberman... He's not a Republican...I'm sure you are out of the political loop, but if McCain had gotten his first choice for VP, it would have been Leiberman. The only reason he didn't pick him was because the evangelicals threaten to make a stink at the convention if he did (as Leiberman is non-Christian and pro-choice).

Assuming that the Democrats keep (and make gains) in the Senate, Leiberman will lose his chairmanship position of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs when they reconvene next year.

Hope that clears up his current political affiliations for you. I'm sure you would be equally surprised to find out that Reagan was a Democrat once too.

[3rdpath]

What is troubling is the accusation that Ayers hosted a campaign contribution event for Obama some years ago at his (Ayers') home and Obama attended. At that time, Obama would have known of Ayers' involvement with the Weathermen and his terrorist activities. If this accusation is true, it raises legitimate concerns that should be debated about Obama's judgement as an adult.

concerns about what?

ayers now holds the title of Distinguished professor at the University of Illinois in Chicago.

obama was 8 years old at the time the weather underground was active.


fear-mongering is the cheapest room in the house...

[Ugg]

What is troubling is the accusation that Ayers hosted a campaign contribution event for Obama some years ago at his (Ayers') home and Obama attended. At that time, Obama would have known of Ayers' involvement with the Weathermen and his terrorist activities. If this accusation is true, it raises legitimate concerns that should be debated about Obama's judgement as an adult.

Can you substantiate that? If not, then why are you posting such bs?

[RacerX]

At that time, Obama would have known of Ayers' involvement with the Weathermen and his terrorist activities.Would he?

This guy is a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, so unless we all do background searches on everyone we meet, you can't make that link. For all we know, to Obama he was just a neighbor named Bill.

If you have a pedophile for a neighbor, and you've had dinner at his house, but you didn't know what he was... are you guilty by association?

Guilt by association is a dangerous thing that you should be afraid of because it can be used just as easily against you as it can against someone you don't like.

[Iscariot]

"bwaaa" or variations of it are the internet version of crying. crying like baby.

I know the intent, but consider that particular onomatopoeia to have been used poorly. "Waah" is a a sound with considerably more euphony.

[SMM]

The weather underground may have been a lot of things, but they were not terrorists. To understand them requires a solid knowledge if the anti-war movement, between 1968-1973. But, the radical movements died out in the 1970's, long before Barack became acquainted with Bill Ayers. Palin is clearly a little neocon liar

Jesus is watching, Sarah! :mad:

[mgguy]

Can you substantiate that? If not, then why are you posting such bs?

Peter Sleven alleged in an article he wrote in the Washington Post on April 18, 2008 that in 1995 Ayers and his wife hosted in their home a "meet and greet" political coming out party for Obama. This issue was considered important to Hillary and George Steponallofus, and was raised again today by Al Gore's 2004 running mate Joe Lieberman. I guess they were throwing around bs, too.

[mgguy]

The weather underground may have been a lot of things, but they were not terrorists.

Really? You don't consider setting off bombs in US citizens' homes when their families are inside for political purposes to be terrorism? Would you consider it to be attempted murder? I guess that's OK to you:rolleyes:.

[zap2]

If my memory serves me well, he was the Democrat vice presidential nominee 4 years ago.

It doesn't....that was 8 years ago.


And that man is far cry from what he was 8 years ago

[TheAnswer]

Al Gore's 2004 running mate Joe Lieberman.

It would be better if mgguy's talking points were factually correct as well. Just sub-par for the course, as candidates seem to have the same problem.

For the record: Joe Lieberman was Al Gore's running mate in 2000. 8 years ago.

Edit: D'oh zap2 beat me to it.

[yg17]

Bwahhh...Libs just love to play victims....Bwaaaaaaaaa :D:D:D:D

So when McPalin were whining about such difficult, "gotcha" questions like "What newspapers do you read?" and "Can you name a Supreme Court case other than Roe v Wade?" they weren't playing victim? Because that's what it sounded like to me. They were whining and playing victim. Bwahhhh

[IJ Reilly]

Well I don't know, I'd like at least one of them to be, you know, like really perky and cute.

[NT1440]

Well I don't know, I'd like at least one of them to be, you know, like really perky and cute.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/obama-superman.jpg

aw he thinks hes super man:p

[Peace]

What is troubling is the accusation that Ayers hosted a campaign contribution event for Obama some years ago at his (Ayers') home and Obama attended. At that time, Obama would have known of Ayers' involvement with the Weathermen and his terrorist activities. If this accusation is true, it raises legitimate concerns that should be debated about Obama's judgement as an adult.

The Republican party. The party of the screw you rich corporate fat cats would have people believe any liberal is a terrorist.. Afterall. That's what George Bush said.


The Rove smear begins.

If the American people are dumb enough to believe it they deserve the real terrorists John McCain and Sarah Palin.
That's what God wants right ?

[mgguy]

If the American people are dumb enough to believe it they deserve the real terrorists John McCain and Sarah Palin.
That's what God wants right ?

Can you provide any citations that give evidence that McCain and Palin are terrorists?

[NT1440]

Can you provide any citations that give evidence that McCain and Palin are terrorists?

well... those fear mongering adds are technically made to invoke fear in (stupid) people. Thats technically terrorism.....

[yg17]

Can you provide any citations that give evidence that McCain and Palin are terrorists?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmt0rLtgmK0

If guilty by association works on Obama, it works on Palin

[Peace]

Can you provide any citations that give evidence that McCain and Palin are terrorists?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmt0rLtgmK0

If guilty by association works on Obama, it works on Palin


There ya go.

That's just part.

If you believe in the Patriot Act. If you believe in the erosion of the Constitution. If you believe fear is the only way to communicate than you ( republicans in general) are the real terrorist.

Ben Franklin's been quoted here many times so you should know.

[solvs]

Libs just love to play victims
Yeah. I'm sure that's it. :rolleyes: How dare Obama fight back against yet another misleading slam from the McCain camp, who had said they would run a clean campaign, but started not winning and immediately went back on that. This is a disgusting act, and they should be ashamed of themselves.

And please, like the GOP never cries about anything or tries to play victim.

(And in case you really don't see it, maybe you're forgetting a few days ago when they claimed the bailout bill didn't go through because of something that wasn't even that partisan in a Pelosi speech that even Rush slammed them over)

If the Ayers issue is without substance, then I would think the Obama fans would be happy to have it aired so they could knock it down and then say how unfair McCain was in raising it.
This was actually raised by people like Sean Hannity long ago. And we have been over it. This, and other such things, many a time. Over and over and over. You guys go out of your way to make these tenuous ties to anything that even sounds like "radical" or "terrorism". You know you can't go calling him a Muslim terrorist, so you find the closest way to try (http://www.mercurynews.com/presidentelect/ci_10641099?nclick_check=1&forced=true).

But hey, he kinda sat on a board with and went to a party thrown by a guy who was cleared of charges of something that allegedly happened when Obama was 8, who's now a Professor. I know I'm scared. Yeah, couldn't possibly be the McCain campaign desperately trying to find anything to smear him or link him to because on actual policy and facts, they have nothing and they know it.

Fact Check: Is Obama 'palling around with terrorists'? (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/05/fact-check-is-obama-palling-around-with-terrorists/)

And yes, it is backfiring (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081005/ap_on_el_pr/palin_s_words_analysis;_ylt=AmYGLLmhiTl_QXho9c6N_Tas0NUE).

And those who do try to make that case may need to question the judgement of Al Gore for selecting him as his running mate.
Been there, done that, Liebermann is no longer considered a Dem (especially after he spoke at the Republican National Convention).

Peter Sleven alleged in an article he wrote in the Washington Post on April 18, 2008 that in 1995 Ayers and his wife hosted in their home a "meet and greet" political coming out party for Obama. This issue was considered important to Hillary and George Steponallofus, and was raised again today by Al Gore's 2004 running mate Joe Lieberman. I guess they were throwing around bs, too.
Well, yeah.

Really? You don't consider setting off bombs in US citizens' homes when their families are inside for political purposes to be terrorism? Would you consider it to be attempted murder? I guess that's OK to you:rolleyes:.
Link?

Can you provide any citations that give evidence that McCain and Palin are terrorists?
Can you provide any for yours? Preferably not from some right wing rumor mill. Nor the McCain campaign. I believe that was an attempt to prove a rhetorical point, that you are so quick to label Obama a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer or whatever because he kinda knows a guy, who even if he is a terrorist (which, again, he's been cleared of all charges for) doesn't actually prove anything.

This is sad. So sad. To think I actually used to respect McCain, and yet I see him sink so low all in an effort to "win". So, so desperately sad.

[freeny]

I finally saw the actual clip of Palin saying this quote and I have to tell ya, she didn't look all that comfortable saying it. It looks forced. She seems to be trying to say it all matter of factly with her usual joe sixpack folkyness, but it's coming off very stiff and uneasy. I think McCAin thinks she's stupid too and is throwing HER under the train IMO.

What a dick.

Also, Obama has released a web ad showcasing McCains involvement with the "Keating 5".
The McCain camp has been asked if Obamas ex pastor is off the table and the response was "no comment"...

[TheAnswer]

I finally saw the actual clip of Palin saying this quote and I have to tell ya, she didn't look all that comfortable saying it. It looks forced. She seems to be trying to say it all matter of factly with her usual joe sixpack folkyness, but it's coming off very stiff and uneasy. I think McCAin thinks she's stupid too and is throwing HER under the train IMO.

What a dick.

Also, Obama has released a web ad showcasing McCains involvement with the "Keating 5".
The McCain camp has been asked if Obamas ex pastor is off the table and the response was "no comment"...

Strange to hear a "no comment" coming from "Songbird" McCain, it certainly wasn't his modus operandi during his stay in Vietnam.

The "running an honorable campaign", a dubious claim made by McCain on NPR October 1st, is now the latest of his flip-flops.

[doctor pangloss]

But hey, he kinda sat on a board with and went to a party thrown by a guy who was cleared of charges of something that allegedly happened when Obama was 8, who's now a Professor. .

Sadly you and many others are missing the point.
The point is: Obama's trying to pass his relationship with Ayers off as just a guy he knew in the neighborhood. While in fact they knew each other quite well.
Also the fact that Barry was only 8 years old while Ayers was acting as a domestic terrorist is irrelevant due to the unrepentant demeanor Ayers maintains to this day.
If you probe a little deeper you'll see that the associations with Ayers are consistent with other radical associations Obama has maintained throughout his career.

BTW, how does someone "kinda" sit on a board?:rolleyes:

[BoyBach]

Sadly you and many others are missing the point.


Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin are being advised on foreign policy by Dr. Kissinger, yet the Right are getting in a tizzy because Sen. Obama used to work with someone who opposed the Vietnam War?

To paraphrase, satire ended when they gave Kissinger the Nobel Peace Prize.

[IJ Reilly]

It turns out McCain's Naval flying career was hardly unblemished. If the fact that Obama knows a guy who was once a member of the Weather Underground reflects on his "judgement," what does McCain's military record say about his?

Mishaps mark John McCain's record as naval aviator

Three crashes early in his career led Navy officials to question or fault his judgment.

John McCain was training in his AD-6 Skyraider on an overcast Texas morning in 1960 when he slammed into Corpus Christi Bay and sheared the skin off his plane's wings.

McCain recounted the accident decades later in his autobiography. "The engine quit while I was practicing landings," he wrote. But an investigation board at the Naval Aviation Safety Center found no evidence of engine failure.

The 23-year-old junior lieutenant wasn't paying attention and erred in using "a power setting too low to maintain level flight in a turn," investigators concluded.

The crash was one of three early in McCain's aviation career in which his flying skills and judgment were faulted or questioned by Navy officials.

In his most serious lapse, McCain was "clowning" around in a Skyraider over southern Spain about December 1961 and flew into electrical wires, causing a blackout, according to McCain's own account as well as those of naval officers and enlistees aboard the carrier Intrepid. In another incident, in 1965, McCain crashed a T-2 trainer jet in Virginia.

...

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-aviator6-2008oct06,0,7633315.story

[MacNut]

Lets just say for arguments sake that all the things about Obama are found true after he becomes president, what happens then. Im asking in general terms. I'll throw it out if McCain gets elected too and some horrible dirty is uncovered. Is there a recall process that could happen or are we stuck?

[IJ Reilly]

Lets just say for arguments sake that all the things about Obama are found true after he becomes president, what happens then. Im asking in general terms. Is there a recall process that could happen or are we stuck?

I am puzzled by this question. What things?

Also, the only way to remove a sitting president is through the impeachment process.

[Ugg]

Lets just say for arguments sake that all the things about Obama are found true after he becomes president, what happens then. Im asking in general terms. I'll throw it out if McCain gets elected too and some horrible dirty is uncovered. Is there a recall process that could happen or are we stuck?

What things?

[BoyBach]

Also, the only way to remove a sitting president is through the impeachment process.


Does this mean that the Republican Party should be scouring Sen. Obama's past for an illicit blowjob? ;)

[MacNut]

What things?I saying anything, and it goes for any elected official that might be sworn into office and then a shady past is discovered.Does this mean that the Republican Party should be scouring Sen. Obama's past for an illicit blowjob? ;)They didn't get Clinton for getting a BJ, he was caught on lying about getting a BJ.

[Ugg]

I saying anything, and it goes for any elected official that might be sworn into office and then a shady past is discovered.

Were you as interested in w's shady past? Reagan's? McCain's?

Sounds like a witch hunt to me

[MacNut]

Were you as interested in w's shady past? Reagan's? McCain's?

Sounds like a witch hunt to meWell when somebody makes a thread about it and it is discussed I will throw the same theory in. Did Bush have ulterior motives when he became president? Or was he just towing the line.

[IJ Reilly]

Asking again, all of what things?

[MacNut]

Asking again, all of what things?And I said hypothetically, Im not saying there is or isn't anything. Im going off what others are saying and asking what if.

[IJ Reilly]

And I said hypothetically, Im not saying there is or isn't anything. Im going off what others are saying and asking what if.

Actually, you did say if "all the things about Obama are found true." Doesn't sound very hypothetical to me, especially when the current accusation is that he "palled around with terrorists," which is factually not operative.

Again though, impeachment is the only method available under the Constitution for removing a sitting president.

[wordmunger]

Sadly you and many others are missing the point.
The point is: Obama's trying to pass his relationship with Ayers off as just a guy he knew in the neighborhood. While in fact they knew each other quite well.

Oooh! They knew each other! Therefore they are "pals"? Therefore Obama is a terrorist? That's utter baloney.

Also the fact that Barry was only 8 years old while Ayers was acting as a domestic terrorist is irrelevant due to the unrepentant demeanor Ayers maintains to this day.

...which says a lot about Ayers, but nothing at all about Obama. Remember, these guys haven't even exchanged an email since 2005.

If you probe a little deeper you'll see that the associations with Ayers are consistent with other radical associations Obama has maintained throughout his career.

...but apparently, the "association" with Ayers is the best the McCain/Palin campaign can come up with. Do you honestly believe they're holding back on some other, more damning connection?

[Ugg]

And I said hypothetically, Im not saying there is or isn't anything. Im going off what others are saying and asking what if.

So, you're essentially basing your question on unsubstantiated gossip. Maybe you should start asking yourself why you allow yourself to be so heavily influenced by propaganda.

[freeny]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/06/palin-raises-rev-wright/

Palin brings up pastor Wright
desperate people do desperate things.

cue the witch craft Palin ad...;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4kVck4gRUI&feature=related

if the smear campaign works i believe the democratic process is flawed and this country truly is lost.

[SMM]

Really? You don't consider setting off bombs in US citizens' homes when their families are inside for political purposes to be terrorism? Would you consider it to be attempted murder? I guess that's OK to you:rolleyes:.

You will need to source that. Unlike insurgents, and/or terrorists, the direct action component, of the Weather Underground was to draw public attention, and support for the anti-war movement. Remember, this was 35-40 years ago. There was no established Internet for the masses. "The blogosphere" was in the form of The Village Voice, LAFP, DFP, The Helix, Tuesday's Child, and other free presses around the country. There was almost no cable, and no cable news. Back then the MSM actually wrote, and broadcast the news. So, there was tactical reasons for carrying out acts of radical defiance.

The goal of terrorism is to do what the name implies - create a sense of fear and terror within a targeted military and civilian population. That was not the intent of the WU. However, many splinter groups decided their own agenda. Soon, The WU ceased to be recognizable political entity. Original members were incarcerated, fled the country, and many were killed. My purpose in writing this is neither to condemn, nor endorse. It is just a very condensed reason why I say, the WU did not share the same nexus of classic terrorism.

[skunk]

Can you provide any citations that give evidence that McCain and Palin are terrorists?McCain admitted to being a War Criminal and bombing hospitals and schools in North Vietnam in several propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Hanoi government. Will that do?

[doctor pangloss]

Oooh! They knew each other! Therefore they are "pals"? Therefore Obama is a terrorist? That's utter baloney.




No one said Barry's a terrorist!
They worked with each other for 5 years. Just a passing acquaintance I suppose.:rolleyes:

But a review of just the publicly known highlights of the Ayers-Obama relationship suggests a twenty year pattern of connections between the two.
At the heart of this “Top Ten” list is the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which Ayers founded and Obama and Ayers co-chaired for five years, raising and spending at least $110 million in an effort to bolster a “radical” (Ayers’ word) reform program in the Chicago Public Schools from 1994 to 2001.

[doctor pangloss]

The goal of terrorism is to do what the name implies - create a sense of fear and terror within a targeted military and civilian population. That was not the intent of the WU. However, many splinter groups decided their own agenda. Soon, The WU ceased to be recognizable political entity. Original members were incarcerated, fled the country, and many were killed. My purpose in writing this is neither to condemn, nor endorse. It is just a very condensed reason why I say, the WU did not share the same nexus of classic terrorism.


And felatio isn't sex.:confused:

[Veldek]

What I wonder is as everybody seemed to know he was a terrorist, why was he still allowed to become a professor which put him in a position to spread his views? If they had nothing against him, why is it a bad thing Obama knows him?

I have to compare this scenario to Joschka Fischer, former foreign minister of Germany, who was a member of a radical left group in his youth, fighting with the police etc. He later changed his mind, left his violent views behind and became a respected member of the government.

So, is it out of bounds that Ayers evolved and working with the man he became isn't anything to be condemned for?

[RacerX]

They worked with each other for 5 years. Just a passing acquaintance I suppose.:rolleyes:Interesting... I've worked with lots of people over the years, but until now it had never occurred to me that I should subject everyone (even those with the most tenuous connections to me) to extensive background checks. :eek:

[doctor pangloss]

Interesting... I've worked with lots of people over the years, but until now it had never occurred to me that I should subject everyone (even those with the most tenuous connections to me) to extensive background checks. :eek:

You aren't running for President are you?

Ayers and Obama co-chaired the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. They handed out 100 million to Chicago schools. Ayers/Obama connection is much deeper than Obama would like you know.

BTW the Chicago Annenberg Challenge with all their money failed to elevate the educational achievement standards.:eek:

[skunk]

No one said Barry's a terrorist!
They worked with each other for 5 years. Just a passing acquaintance I suppose.:rolleyes:If he's accepted onto the teaching staff of a major university, clearly his past is considered pretty irrelevant now, except perhaps by people for whom the very use of the word "radical" in any context triggers mortal fear. You'll have to do better than that.

Incidentally, while we're on the subject, McCain should be disbarred from standing for election at all, according to the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, Section 3, on the grounds that his 32 propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Hanoi government could fairly be construed as giving aid and comfort to an enemy, don't you think?

[djellison]

'Shock and Awe'
'Mission accomplished'

A terrorist has been in the whitehouse for 8 years.

[és:]

McCain admitted to being a War Criminal and bombing hospitals and schools in North Vietnam in several propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Hanoi government. Will that do?

He said it on 60 minutes (1997), too.

[doctor pangloss]

If he's accepted onto the teaching staff of a major university, clearly his past is considered pretty irrelevant now, except perhaps by people for whom the very use of the word "radical" in any context triggers mortal fear. You'll have to do better than that.

Missing the point:
Obama said he hardly knew Ayers, that they were only acquaintances from his neighborhood.
Obama seems to have a pattern of misleading regarding the nature of certain acquaintances: Ayers, Wright, Rezko.
There are others as well, why the mystery?

[és:]

[QUOTE=doctor pangloss;6364078]Missing the point:
Obama said he hardly knew Ayers/QUOTE]

And? Do you think people that serve on a board know each other well? They meet rarely to do business matters. Obama was 8 when Ayres was 'active' - far too much is being made of this.

It's dirty politics.

[freeny]

He said it on 60 minutes (1997), too.

it is well documented that McCain is a war criminal that actually killed innocent civilians, weather he knew it or not and by his own admission. This had been for the most part, put to the sideline so we could talk about the issues of fixing this country. But since he feels it necessary to point out that his opponent has had a passing aquaintance with a known anti war extremist, I think it needs to be more widely discussed... ;)

I've got to admire the Republicans loyalty. They'll take it in the ass for eight years, look over their shoulder, say thank you and ask for eight more.

[wordmunger]

Ayers and Obama co-chaired the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. They handed out 100 million to Chicago schools. Ayers/Obama connection is much deeper than Obama would like you know.:

No they did not "co-chair" the CAC. Obama was Chair and Patricia Graham was vice-chair. Ayers and Obama apparently attended (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?bl&ex=1223352000&en=97a61d8ecb16e341&ei=5087%0A) about six meetings together:

Archives of the Chicago Annenberg project, which funneled the money to networks of schools from 1995 to 2000, show both men attended six board meetings early in the project — Mr. Obama as chairman, Mr. Ayers to brief members on school issues.

[doctor pangloss]

In March 1995, Mr. Obama became chairman of the six-member
I guess they knew each other fairly well.

It was later in 1995 that Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn hosted the gathering, in their town house three blocks from Mr. Obama’s home, at which State Senator Alice J. Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced Mr. Obama to a few Democratic friends as her chosen successor.
Friendly folks, by golly, u betcha!:D

[skunk]

I wonder if GHWBush was friendly with his own father, or GW with his grandfather? Wouldn't that have been terribly unAmerican, considering all his trading with the enemy?

[RacerX]

You aren't running for President are you?I might one day... but now I'm realizing that because I didn't investigate the backgrounds of every person whom I've had any connection with in the last 25 years or so, I may have really hurt my chances. :eek:

Was Obama running for President during the period of these events?

Ayers/Obama connection is much deeper than Obama would like you know.And you know this how? Are you privy to some inside info? Were you there?

Conspiracy theories aside, do you actually have anything intelligent to add to the dialog in this forum? Because so far you haven't been showing it. All I see is that you can repeat right wing talking points. Is this the full extent of your abilities in this area? :eek:

[Thomas Veil]

Not really related to the topic at hand, but when I opened this thread, this was the ad that I saw at the bottom of it.

These poll sites are getting really low. :mad:

[iShater]

Not really related to the topic at hand, but when I opened this thread, this was the ad that I saw at the bottom of it.

These poll sites are getting really low. :mad:

Cheat at what?

[freeny]

Ayers and Obama co-chaired the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. They handed out 100 million to Chicago schools. Ayers/Obama connection is much deeper than Obama would like you know.

Sounds sinister... :rolleyes:

Read that quote out loud to yourself...

[diamond.g]

If he's accepted onto the teaching staff of a major university, clearly his past is considered pretty irrelevant now, except perhaps by people for whom the very use of the word "radical" in any context triggers mortal fear. You'll have to do better than that.

Incidentally, while we're on the subject, McCain should be disbarred from standing for election at all, according to the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, Section 3, on the grounds that his 32 propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Hanoi government could fairly be construed as giving aid and comfort to an enemy, don't you think?
I think that Section only applies to people already in the government (Congress). It doesn't seem to be about folks in the Military, or at least Wiki doesn't make it seem like it applies.
Cheat at what?
On their spouse.

[iShater]

On their spouse.

Well I guess McCain already won that round. :D

[mactastic]

It doesn't....that was 8 years ago.


And that man is far cry from what he was 8 years ago
As is John McCain.

Can you provide any citations that give evidence that McCain and Palin are terrorists?
He's admitted as much himself.

Sadly you and many others are missing the point.
The point is: Obama's trying to pass his relationship with Ayers off as just a guy he knew in the neighborhood. While in fact they knew each other quite well.
Also the fact that Barry was only 8 years old while Ayers was acting as a domestic terrorist is irrelevant due to the unrepentant demeanor Ayers maintains to this day.
If you probe a little deeper you'll see that the associations with Ayers are consistent with other radical associations Obama has maintained throughout his career.

BTW, how does someone "kinda" sit on a board?:rolleyes:
Like this (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jzQtw1kATj1xCqPcAmwgCKDtNpDQD93LJ79O0):
GOP presidential nominee John McCain has past connections to a private group that supplied aid to guerrillas seeking to overthrow the leftist government of Nicaragua in the Iran-Contra affair.
McCain's ties are facing renewed scrutiny after his campaign criticized Barack Obama for his link to a former radical who engaged in violent acts 40 years ago.
The U.S. Council for World Freedom was part of an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America. The group was dedicated to stamping out communism around the globe.
The council's founder, retired Army Maj. Gen. John Singlaub, said McCain became associated with the organization in the early 1980s as McCain was launching his political career in Arizona. Singlaub said McCain was a supporter but not an active member in the group.
"McCain was a new guy on the block learning the ropes," Singlaub told The Associated Press in an interview. "I think I met him in the Washington area when he was just a new congressman. We had McCain on the board to make him feel like he wasn't left out. It looks good to have names on a letterhead who are well-known and appreciated.
"I don't recall talking to McCain at all on the work of the group," Singlaub said.
The renewed attention over McCain's association with Singlaub's group comes as McCain's campaign steps up criticism of Obama's dealings with William Ayers, a college professor who co-founded the Weather Underground and years later worked on education reform in Chicago alongside Obama. Ayers held a meet-the-candidate event at his home when Obama first ran for public office in the mid-1990s.
Obama was roughly 8 years old when Ayers, now at the University of Illinois at Chicago, was working with the Weather Underground, which took responsibility for bombings that included nonfatal blasts at the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol. McCain's vice presidential nominee, Sarah Palin, has said that Obama "pals around with terrorists."
In McCain's case, Singlaub knew McCain's father, a Navy admiral who had sought Singlaub's counsel when McCain, a Navy pilot, became a prisoner of war and spent 5 1/2 years in North Vietnamese hands.
"John's father asked me for advice about what he ought to do now that his son had been shot down and captured," Singlaub recalled in one of two recent interviews. "I said, 'As long as you don't give any impression that you care more about him than you care about any of the other prisoners, he won't be treated any differently.'"
Covert arms shipments to the rebels called Contras, financed in part by secret arms sales to Iran, became known as the Iran-Contra affair. They proved to be the undoing of Singlaub's council.
In 1987, the Internal Revenue Service withdrew the tax-exempt status of Singlaub's group because of its activities on behalf of the Contras.
Elected to the House in 1982 and at a time when he was on the board of Singlaub's council, McCain was among Republicans on Capitol Hill expressing support for the Contras, a CIA-organized guerrilla force in Central America. In 1984, Congress cut off CIA funds for the Contras.
Months before the cutoff, top Reagan administration officials ramped up a secret White House-directed supply network and put National Security Council aide Oliver North in charge of running it. The goal was to keep the Contras operational until Congress could be persuaded to resume CIA funding.
Singlaub's private group became the public cover for the White House operation.
Secretly, Singlaub worked with North in an effort to raise millions of dollars from foreign governments.
McCain has said previously he resigned from the council in 1984 and asked in 1986 to have his name removed from the group's letterhead.
"I didn't know whether (the group's activity) was legal or illegal, but I didn't think I wanted to be associated with them," McCain said in a newspaper interview in 1986.
Singlaub does not recall any McCain resignation in 1984 or May 1986. Nor does Joyce Downey, who oversaw the group's day-to-day activities.
"That's a surprise to me," Singlaub said. "This is the first time I've ever heard that. There may have been someone in his office communicating with our office."
"I don't ever remember hearing about his resigning, but I really wasn't worried about that part of our activities, a housekeeping thing," said Singlaub. "If he didn't want to be on the board that's OK. It wasn't as if he had been active participant and we were going to miss his help. He had no active interest. He certainly supported us."
McCain was on the board of a group that sold weapons to Iran. Obviously be being on the board, he personally knows the background of everyone else in that organization. Therefore, he's every bit the traitor to his country that Oliver North and John Singlaub are.

And you want to whine about Obama's tenuous ties to terrorism? If that's the standard, McCain is responsible for the work of Nicaraguan death squads.

Not to mention that John McCain "pals around" with convicted felons who planned terrorist attacks. See Liddy, Gordon G. if you need any further proof of the scum of the earth that McCain has associated with.

Oh and McCain also once sent a Happy Birthday card to a Mafia don. Of course he had to know about the man's background. Wouldn't you be suspicious if you got an invitation to a party thrown by a guy with the last name "Bonanno"?

McCain also associates with a known drug addict who stole money and drugs from a charitable organization. Not only does he "pal around" with someone like that, he also provided assistance for her legal defense because the news could be damaging to his career.

This is going to backfire horribly on Sidney Jr. Desperation makes for poor judgement, and McCain has shown it in spades throughout his career.

[SMM]

Missing the point:
Obama said he hardly knew Ayers, that they were only acquaintances from his neighborhood.
Obama seems to have a pattern of misleading regarding the nature of certain acquaintances: Ayers, Wright, Rezko.
There are others as well, why the mystery?

Not only are you missing the point, but also the facts. I watched the entire, unedited interview (where he discussed his relationship with Ayers). Your version of the 'facts' are incorrect, which is not allowed.

[doctor pangloss]

Not only are you missing the point, but also the facts. I watched the entire, unedited interview (where he discussed his relationship with Ayers). Your version of the 'facts' are incorrect, which is not allowed.

Could you provide a link to "the" acceptable facts?

I'm afraid I only have the NYT and a clip I saw from from a debate.
And the exposé by Sean Hannity (http://www.foxnews.com/hannitysamerica/)

[abijnk]

Could you provide a link to "the" acceptable facts?

I'm afraid I only have the NYT and a clip I saw from from a debate.
And the exposé by Sean Hannity (http://www.foxnews.com/hannitysamerica/)

Oh, Sean Hannity, well, thank goodness for unbiased sources. :rolleyes:

[mactastic]

Could you provide a link to "the" acceptable facts?

I'm afraid I only have the NYT and a clip I saw from from a debate.
And the exposé by Sean Hannity (http://www.foxnews.com/hannitysamerica/)

LOL... weren't you the one who was just rolling your eyes at an article from Rolling Stone?

Oh you cons... you're so precious. :p

[it5five]

You will need to source that. Unlike insurgents, and/or terrorists, the direct action component, of the Weather Underground was to draw public attention, and support for the anti-war movement. Remember, this was 35-40 years ago. There was no established Internet for the masses. "The blogosphere" was in the form of The Village Voice, LAFP, DFP, The Helix, Tuesday's Child, and other free presses around the country. There was almost no cable, and no cable news. Back then the MSM actually wrote, and broadcast the news. So, there was tactical reasons for carrying out acts of radical defiance.

The goal of terrorism is to do what the name implies - create a sense of fear and terror within a targeted military and civilian population. That was not the intent of the WU. However, many splinter groups decided their own agenda. Soon, The WU ceased to be recognizable political entity. Original members were incarcerated, fled the country, and many were killed. My purpose in writing this is neither to condemn, nor endorse. It is just a very condensed reason why I say, the WU did not share the same nexus of classic terrorism.

Agreed.

For those interested in learning about the history of the anti-war movement during the Vietnam War, I'd recommend this book (http://www.amazon.com/Antiwarriors-Vietnam-Battle-Americas-America/dp/084202896X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223407907&sr=8-1), which I read for one of my classes a few semesters back. For a textbook, it's an easy read and very interesting.

[doctor pangloss]

LOL... weren't you the one who was just rolling your eyes at an article from Rolling Stone?

Oh you cons... you're so precious. :p

Hannity makes a better case than Dickenson's (former Mother Jones editor) verbose editorializing.

[mactastic]

Hannity makes a better case than Dickenson's (former Mother Jones editor) verbose editorializing.
It is a mistake to conflate opinion with facts.

[Peace]

Agreed.

For those interested in learning about the history of the anti-war movement during the Vietnam War, I'd recommend this book (http://www.amazon.com/Antiwarriors-Vietnam-Battle-Americas-America/dp/084202896X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223407907&sr=8-1), which I read for one of my classes a few semesters back. For a textbook, it's an easy read and very interesting.

Anybody need to know about the WU, SDS, the anti-war movement as a whole ?

Ask me. I was there. I had friends that were in the WU and the SDS. I participated in many anti-war protests in 1967 ,1968, 1969 and 1970.

My high school friends father was one of the main people involved in all that in Seattle.

The Weather Underground like the Black Panther Party were NOT terrorists.

They were radicals and any person that wasn't there doesn't "get it".

[solvs]

Sadly you and many others are missing the point.
No, we get it. You have nothing. McCain is getting desperate. Not being able to win on fact, losing thanks to the economy and a ton of other factors, he's desperately trying to find anything he can to attempt to make Obama look bad. So he looks at tenuous ties to people he's been involved with, and plays guilt by association because he has nothing on Obama himself. And you're falling for it, even though you don't seem to be sure why.

You have yet to show why this matters. At all. He knew a person labeled as a "terrorist", cleared of all charges BTW, who's now a Professor. So? Even if he did know him better, so? He's lying? Is that the implication? Or are you saying Ayers is a terrorist, and therefor Obama is too? Obviously you don't think so (I would hope), so then why is this a big deal? We have real problems to deal with here. This is such a non-story, why should we care? :confused:

No one said Barry's a terrorist!
You kinda are. And a "radical". Even if they were best friends, what's the point? Obama wasn't involved with any of this, even if Ayers hadn't been cleared. So he knows someone. Again, so? You, and the McCain campaign seem to be aligning him to "terrorism" and "radicalism" to make people not vote for him out of fear. Fear that he's somehow involved to related to these things. He isn't. So what is the point then? What are you trying to say?

And the exposé by Sean Hannity (http://www.foxnews.com/hannitysamerica/)
Hannity Quotes Anti-Semite On Obama's "Radicalism" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06/hannity-quotes-anti-semit_n_132236.html)

Yeah, real reliable sources there. :rolleyes:

Maybe you need to read the NY Times again:

Obama and ’60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?bl&ex=1223352000&en=97a61d8ecb16e341&ei=5087%0A)


You want to play this game, let's play:

Why is the NY Times continuing to ignore McCain's "own Bill Ayers"? (http://mediamatters.org/items/200810040004)
McCain Voted To Protect Domestic Terrorists Who Carry Out Violence At Abortion Clinics (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/06/mccain-abotion-bombers/)
The Strange Friends of John McCain (http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2008/10/strange-friends-of-john-mccain.html)
John McCain, The U.S. Council for World Freedom, the World Anti-Communist League, and Sun Myung Moon (http://scoobiedavis.blogspot.com/2008/10/john-mccain-u.html)
McCain Said U.S. Troops Kill Civilians (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/mccain-said-us-troops-kil_n_132689.html)
Why McCain's Time With Council Of World Freedom Matters (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06/why-mccains-time-with-cou_n_132470.html)

You have nothing.


And a funny one for ya':

Obama's Associations (http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2008/10/obamas-associations.html)
My new group, "Swiftboaters for McCain," just released this video taking Obama to task for the people he knows.
Not what you think.

[NT1440]

<snip>

Solvs, not to fan out, but you are one of my favorite members here. Your dedication to dissproving lies, smears, and more lies is admirable. If I could I'd shake your hand. Your posts are always so informative while still never having to stoop to the level of others here. You truly understand that facts are vital when it comes to things like this election, which will have an enormous impact on the world. On behalf of other fans who value facts over things such as "character" and "patriotism" I would like to thank you.

[solvs]

Solvs, not to fan out, but you are one of my favorite members here. Your dedication to dissproving lies, smears, and more lies is admirable. If I could I'd shake your hand. Your posts are always so informative while still never having to stoop to the level of others here. You truly understand that facts are vital when it comes to things like this election, which will have an enormous impact on the world. On behalf of other fans who value facts over things such as "character" and "patriotism" I would like to thank you.

Aw, shucks. Yer gonna make a fella blush and whatever. :o Thanks though, makes it all worth it.

And to think, I was gonna go to bed early.

[Thomas Veil]

Cheat at what?
Well, their wives are depicted with them. You draw the inference. I ain't clickin' on that thing to find out for sure.