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MacRumors
Jan 26, 2004, 08:24 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2004/01/26/airport-software-3-3/)


Apple released Airport Software 3.3 today:This software update provides improved AirPort wireless networking software, and is recommended for all users with an AirPort Extreme and AirPort enabled computer or an AirPort Extreme base station.
The update provides Wi-Fi Protected Access (WPA) specification support for the AirPort Extreme base station and AirPort Extreme and AirPort clients.

Article Link: AirPort Software 3.3 (http://www.macrumors.com/2004/01/26/airport-software-3-3/)

mangis
Jan 26, 2004, 08:26 PM
Trying to be first for once.

Yes I will update my wireless network.

pbooktebo
Jan 26, 2004, 08:26 PM
When I went to install the Security Update, this was there and I just re-booted.

No problems, and I am on a wireless network.

mxpiazza
Jan 26, 2004, 08:32 PM
i have an airport extreme base station, i upgraded the firmware, went into the admin utility, upgraded the base station, but nothing is changed in the interface or options, so it must just be a technical thing.

sebaz
Jan 26, 2004, 08:36 PM
Whats with these updates..hmm could it be that something coming out soon already has these updates built-in, and they just want to get up on the same page...hmmm...

Trekkie
Jan 26, 2004, 08:37 PM
i hope it fixes my random 'have to go down into the garage and power cycle it because the whole network disappears' feature.

mangoman
Jan 26, 2004, 08:38 PM
I'm gonna jump in here for a little while: I'm debating whether to dump this piece o' crap Belkin hard-wired router and go with Airport Extreme to use for my two macs. Just not convinced yet. I'm sure it'll be great for grabbing the laptop and walkin' around, but I don't want to lose my hyper-fast hard-wired cable modem connection if Airport Extreme is finicky.

Anyone doing a similar setup currently? Willing to endorse Airport Extreme?

Sabenth
Jan 26, 2004, 08:39 PM
whoa another update this is impressive ....:D

whats next hardware:)

SilentPanda
Jan 26, 2004, 08:42 PM
I haven't had a smidge of trouble with my Airport Extreme Base Station. Reliable connection, I've never had to cycle my station, and covers my whole apartment and more.

I've got mac address filtering, wep, and closed network turned on. Granted I've only had it a month. Hopefully still good things post update. :) Here goes nothing!

Alte22a
Jan 26, 2004, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by mangoman
I'm gonna jump in here for a little while: I'm debating whether to dump this piece o' crap Belkin hard-wired router and go with Airport Extreme to use for my two macs. Just not convinced yet. I'm sure it'll be great for grabbing the laptop and walkin' around, but I don't want to lose my hyper-fast hard-wired cable modem connection if Airport Extreme is finicky.

Anyone doing a similar setup currently? Willing to endorse Airport Extreme?

I'd say go for a mixed wireless/lan combo, like me... I'm using a linksys mix router which is cool. Can make a little home network and home share itunes and iphoto files. wonder around the house. My parents live next door. I've fitted a wireless extension thingy (please excuse my technical babble). Dad can put his iMac anywhere he wants.

mxpiazza
Jan 26, 2004, 08:47 PM
i had the d-link di-624, and i like the airport extreme base station a ton more. it's well worth it, if only for the direct integration to the os with the admin utility, and firmware downloads directly through software updates.

the only downside is the fact that the base station only has 1 available lan port, so if you have more than 1 system that you need hardwired, you're going to have to buy a routher on top of the base station.

if you can live with that, i'd definitley go with the apple base station, i love it.

peterjhill
Jan 26, 2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by mangoman
I'm sure it'll be great for grabbing the laptop and walkin' around, but I don't want to lose my hyper-fast hard-wired cable modem connection if Airport Extreme is finicky.

Anyone doing a similar setup currently? Willing to endorse Airport Extreme?

Okay, so a good cable modem connection (like mine) can give you 3 megabits per second (mbps). The original Airport (802.11b) is capable of about 5.5 real world mbps. Airport extreme, 30-40 mbps. They say 11 and 55, but wireless is a shared medium. Transmit and receive all share the same collision domain. For this reason it is called a shared network medium. Even so, it is faster than you cable modem. I seriously doubt that you will average higher throughput with a wired connection over your broadband link.

The wired connection would be great for high speed transfers between your computers. Honestly though, you would be much better off using your iPod (if you have one) or firewire target disk mode (start up your computer with the T key held down) to transfer multi-gigabit files from one computer to another. For example, I will copy a bunch of tv episodes into my iPod then connect it to my G5 to store on its larger hard disk.

Your argument has its merits, with large file transfers, but using it to say you don't want to slow down your broadband connection is not very good.

peterjhill
Jan 26, 2004, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by mxpiazza
i have an airport extreme base station, i upgraded the firmware, went into the admin utility, upgraded the base station, but nothing is changed in the interface or options, so it must just be a technical thing.

WPA usually requires a RADIUS server to function. I am betting that you are not using that option. WPA fixes all the insecurities that the NSA put into the standard.

yoman
Jan 26, 2004, 08:53 PM
well this was definitely the day of updates. just not the kind we wanted. only software fixes not hardware. Happy anniversery apple.

SilentPanda
Jan 26, 2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by peterjhill

The wired connection would be great for high speed transfers between your computers. Honestly though, you would be much better off using your iPod (if you have one) or firewire target disk mode (start up your computer with the T key held down) to transfer multi-gigabit files from one computer to another. For example, I will copy a bunch of tv episodes into my iPod then connect it to my G5 to store on its larger hard disk.

You can also use ip over firewire... I did it the other day and it was tasty... no need to mess up my precious uptime.. .:)

gorkonapple
Jan 26, 2004, 09:02 PM
I ran into issues with the Airport Extreme in my 12" PB when running the BEFW11S4 AP at the maximum speed. I am wondering if anyones else has tried this update + increasing the speed of the AP. With the current settings, I can surf, but moving a large file from my PC to power book was a major pain. If I think about trying it, AND it works, I will post it.

dho
Jan 26, 2004, 09:03 PM
New wireless, <conspiracy> this MUST mean that tomorow new device will have some brand new airport involved functionality.</conspiracy>

just for curiosities sake, anyone wanna check the chongleog or whatever to see if any flags come up? I wouldnt know where to look.

backdrifter
Jan 26, 2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by peterjhill
Your argument has its merits, with large file transfers, but using it to say you don't want to slow down your broadband connection is not very good.

I don't think he was trying to argue the bandwidth side of things. He just doesn't want his Internet connection to be unavailable due to the AirPort Extreme not working, due to interference, etc. I think he was wondering how reliable the connection is, in terms of staying on.

I personally have a LinkSys AP here, and I have noticed intermittent drop outs due to interference among other devices. Never too big of issue for me, but it does happen. I've never tried an AirPort. In any case, it probably has more to do with you location and situation than hardware issues.

fraeone
Jan 26, 2004, 09:22 PM
FYI for owners of the Netgear WGR614:

If you have the Netgear WGR614v1 they have finally added WPA supported beta firmware as of yesterday. I have my 12" PB hooked up with WPA as I type.

Good stuff.

mangoman
Jan 26, 2004, 09:23 PM
Thanks, all. This is good info to weigh in the coming days... If anyone else wants to weigh in on the reliability of using Airport Extreme over a hard-wired router, please do so. Again, thanks.

bpd115
Jan 26, 2004, 09:24 PM
I've noticed that apple's sites (dowloading the iTunes setup, the music store, and the Software updates) have been SLOOOWWW......my bandwith is fine otherwise ....anyone else?

pb1212580
Jan 26, 2004, 09:47 PM
Do you have 2.4ghz phone in the house?

I have the same problem and Apple insisted that it's my 2.4ghz phone. I can't really get rid of the phone for a day to test if that's true...

I hope this update would help SOMEHOW?
Updating...in progress...

Originally posted by Trekkie
i hope it fixes my random 'have to go down into the garage and power cycle it because the whole network disappears' feature.

WM.
Jan 26, 2004, 09:50 PM
WOOHOO, I'M ON THE FRONT PAGE!!!! I'm goin' to California, and North Dakota, and South Dakota, and Oregon, and Washington, and then--oh wait...

So yeah, HUGE props to arn for honoring my request to be credited for the submission. :) First time with my name in lights (at least on a Mac rumors site).

Anyway, I'd like to emphasize that this update enables WPA on all AirPort cards, old and new. Unfortunately, it doesn't remove AirPort's other WPA limitation--namely that you can't use it on a network with WDS. Like our network. :( I'm sure this isn't Apple's fault, and we've never had a problem with people breaking into the network anyway, so for now we'll be sticking with 128-bit WEP.

As for people asking about AirPort issues...well, the wireless part of our graphite (original) ABS crapped out about 18 months ago, so we were without AirPort until we finally bought an AEBS and then another one (connected via WDS, like I said) about four months ago. The graphite ABS is currently in several pieces, so I'm not positive it's still working, but last time I checked it made a nice, compact, Ethernet-equipped modem (and DHCP server), which will come in handy at some point.

No problems at all with the AEBS's until I tried to install this 5.3 firmware update today: with the main base station, the Admin Utility would immediately quit (with no error messages or anything) as soon as the progress bar for uploading the firmware appeared. With the other one, it would stay on that progress bar indefinitely (until I force-quit it). But after restarting both base stations the update went without a hitch on both of them. Haven't noticed any differences with the new firmware yet...

BTW, I was extremely impressed with how easy it was to set up WDS. I was expecting to have to type each base station's MAC address into the other, and fiddle with all kinds of other stuff, but when you've got the ABS's within range of each other the Admin Utility will ask you if you want to "select and configure this base station as a remote one", or something like that, and it automagically does it for you. I did double-check the settings on the remote (auto-configured) one and I don't think it had gotten some of the minor settings exactly right (like whether to set a closed network). But other than that it was very, very slick.

FWIW
The Famous ;) WM

gorkonapple
Jan 26, 2004, 09:55 PM
Raised the speed of the network and my PB dropped off the network. Anyone else have better luck connecting to a BEFW11S4 at higher then 1-2MBps? Otherwise, it's time to start shopping for a new AP.

WM.
Jan 26, 2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by pb1212580
Do you have 2.4ghz phone in the house?

I have the same problem and Apple insisted that it's my 2.4ghz phone. I can't really get rid of the phone for a day to test if that's true...

I hope this update would help SOMEHOW?
Updating...in progress...
Do you have Interference Robustness turned on? If you're using one of the lower-numbered channels on your AEBS, have you tried switching to the highest channel (which varies by region)? Or vice versa?

If so, well, it really is kind of your fault for expecting two 2.4 GHz appliances to co-exist. :) My understanding is that 2.4 GHz phones are often poorly designed and really stomp on other 2.4 GHz appliances (like 802.11b/g networking gear). Whereas 802.11 networks' signals will mostly stick within one or two channels of the one you selected, some 2.4 GHz phones take up all 11/12/13!! The effects of other 2.4 GHz appliances on wireless networks may vary depending on whether you're trying to use 802.11b or g, and I think b is usually more robust. So maybe try switching your base station over to b-only, and take the bandwidth hit?

WM

WM.
Jan 26, 2004, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by gorkonapple
Raised the speed of the network and my PB dropped off the network. Anyone else have better luck connecting to a BEFW11S4 at higher then 1-2MBps? Otherwise, it's time to start shopping for a new AP.
Are you talking about the multicast rate? And do you mean MBps (megabytes), or Mbps (megabits), which is how networking stuff is usually specified?

WM

hey, my 200th post...

BaDBoY
Jan 26, 2004, 10:03 PM
its the same situation for me. i have an AE network at my home, but the bitchy thing is we also have a 2.4 ghz phone. boy that thing cuts me off like crazy. there is only a few things to bypass this situation.

1. Buy a new phone, perferably a 900 mhz, or 5.2 ghz phone.

2. (Not really gonna solve the problems) Keep changing the channel on the phone to find a channel that wont interfere with the wireless network.

Those are the only 2 options for wireless users. If you noticed, the wireless networks run on a 2.4 ghz based system, not to mention have several different choices of channels. having a 2.4ghz phone will definately interfere with the connections, EVEN WITH interference robustness. If you cant just buy a new phone, then keep changing the channels on the phone, even thought its a major pain in the ass. you gotta keep pressin that button on the phone till youre able to access youre wireless network. unless you have your network as the perfered network and password in yoru preferences, youre gonna have to type in the network name and password each time to check if the channel on the phone will not interfere with the channel of the wireless network.

I still have to deal with this. Id like to get a new phone but i jsut recently bought a new FW800 hard drive so im flat broke. I think those 5.2ghz phones are about $50, but you can easily get a cheap 900 mhz for $30 or less.

I know some of you are thinking, "so why sometimes when i find a channel that the phone doesnt interfere with the network, then later it does again?" well, simple answer. Every time you put the phone down the receiver, it resets the channels. when you pick it up again, it changes and sets itself. as for the wireless base station, it also changes with each power cycle.

I just recommend buying a new phone.

pb1212580
Jan 26, 2004, 10:07 PM
Ya, I didn't know the AEBS runs on 2.4ghz... dumb me.

well, I turned on the robustness from Airport Utility. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks!

pb1212580
Jan 26, 2004, 10:09 PM
One more question:
When the AEBS gets cut off by the 2.4ghz (supposedly that's why), do you USUALLY have to restart the computer?

I almost always have to.


Originally posted by BaDBoY
its the same situation for me. i have an AE network at my home, but the bitchy thing is we also have a 2.4 ghz phone. boy that thing cuts me off like crazy. there is only a few things to bypass this situation.

1. Buy a new phone, perferably a 900 mhz, or 5.2 ghz phone.

2. (Not really gonna solve the problems) Keep changing the channel on the phone to find a channel that wont interfere with the wireless network.

Those are the only 2 options for wireless users. If you noticed, the wireless networks run on a 2.4 ghz based system, not to mention have several different choices of channels. having a 2.4ghz phone will definately interfere with the connections, EVEN WITH interference robustness. If you cant just buy a new phone, then keep changing the channels on the phone, even thought its a major pain in the ass. you gotta keep pressin that button on the phone till youre able to access youre wireless network. unless you have your network as the perfered network and password in yoru preferences, youre gonna have to type in the network name and password each time to check if the channel on the phone will not interfere with the channel of the wireless network.

I still have to deal with this. Id like to get a new phone but i jsut recently bought a new FW800 hard drive so im flat broke. I think those 5.2ghz phones are about $50, but you can easily get a cheap 900 mhz for $30 or less.

I know some of you are thinking, "so why sometimes when i find a channel that the phone doesnt interfere with the network, then later it does again?" well, simple answer. Every time you put the phone down the receiver, it resets the channels. when you pick it up again, it changes and sets itself. as for the wireless base station, it also changes with each power cycle.

I just recommend buying a new phone.

Trowaman
Jan 26, 2004, 10:42 PM
2 in a day. 12 hors until we know whether anything will come true. However, I will say these 2 minor updates are better than none, so . . .:rolleyes:

mainstreetmark
Jan 26, 2004, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by mangoman
I'm gonna jump in here for a little while: I'm debating whether to dump this piece o' crap Belkin hard-wired router and go with Airport Extreme to use for my two macs. Just not convinced yet. I'm sure it'll be great for grabbing the laptop and walkin' around, but I don't want to lose my hyper-fast hard-wired cable modem connection if Airport Extreme is finicky.



You'd rather connect to your 1.5MBps cable modem connection with a 100MBps ethernet cable over a 54MBps AirportExtreme?

-- edit:
you guys already covered this. nevermind.

crees!
Jan 27, 2004, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by mangoman
I'm gonna jump in here for a little while: I'm debating whether to dump this piece o' crap Belkin hard-wired router and go with Airport Extreme to use for my two macs. Just not convinced yet. I'm sure it'll be great for grabbing the laptop and walkin' around, but I don't want to lose my hyper-fast hard-wired cable modem connection if Airport Extreme is finicky.

Anyone doing a similar setup currently? Willing to endorse Airport Extreme?

I'm running AE off a wireless Belkin router.. works like a charm. I plugged in the router and bam, AE found it and I was on the net.. no configuration needed.

crees!
Jan 27, 2004, 12:45 AM
I didn't know that about 2.4Ghz phones.. very interesting. Let me see what I can Google up on that for myself.

iBot
Jan 27, 2004, 12:51 AM
I have the older, pre-Extreme Airport base station and cards installed in my computers.

Does this software update apply to me? Is there any reason for me to install it? Or will it cause problems?

BaDBoY
Jan 27, 2004, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by pb1212580
One more question:
When the AEBS gets cut off by the 2.4ghz (supposedly that's why), do you USUALLY have to restart the computer?

I almost always have to.

ehh?? you have to restart? why? i never have to. if i need to reset my airport card i jsut turn it on and off. it usually works. if turning it on and off wont work, and you tried changing channels on the phone, and other things, then someone next door to you is using a phone or you have some huge interference in your area.

woolfgang
Jan 27, 2004, 01:15 AM
Big Airport Extreme fan. It's like high speed internet, once I tried it, there was no going back. I have a desk top and a PB 15" and everything is wireless to a cable modem. I print from another room using the Base Station and it's amazing. With my card, if I'm out side, half the time I can get on wi-fi just sitting on a bench. Imagine getting faster internet speed on a bench in the park then I used to on dial up at home.

robotrenegade
Jan 27, 2004, 01:34 AM
I also enjoy extreme airport. I hope this make my card in my PB better.

MacBandit
Jan 27, 2004, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by BaDBoY
its the same situation for me. i have an AE network at my home, but the bitchy thing is we also have a 2.4 ghz phone. boy that thing cuts me off like crazy. there is only a few things to bypass this situation.

1. Buy a new phone, perferably a 900 mhz, or 5.2 ghz phone.

2. (Not really gonna solve the problems) Keep changing the channel on the phone to find a channel that wont interfere with the wireless network.

Those are the only 2 options for wireless users. If you noticed, the wireless networks run on a 2.4 ghz based system, not to mention have several different choices of channels. having a 2.4ghz phone will definately interfere with the connections, EVEN WITH interference robustness. If you cant just buy a new phone, then keep changing the channels on the phone, even thought its a major pain in the ass. you gotta keep pressin that button on the phone till youre able to access youre wireless network. unless you have your network as the perfered network and password in yoru preferences, youre gonna have to type in the network name and password each time to check if the channel on the phone will not interfere with the channel of the wireless network.

I still have to deal with this. Id like to get a new phone but i jsut recently bought a new FW800 hard drive so im flat broke. I think those 5.2ghz phones are about $50, but you can easily get a cheap 900 mhz for $30 or less.

I know some of you are thinking, "so why sometimes when i find a channel that the phone doesnt interfere with the network, then later it does again?" well, simple answer. Every time you put the phone down the receiver, it resets the channels. when you pick it up again, it changes and sets itself. as for the wireless base station, it also changes with each power cycle.

I just recommend buying a new phone.


900MHz phones have better range any how. They went to 2.4GHz because at the time the frequency was open and mostly unoccupied. Also at the same time they went to digital encryption. You can now buy a 900MHz phone that's also digital though. Remember the higher the frequency the tighter the wave length and the less capable it is of penetrating solid objects therefore a reduced range inside a building.

michael_aos
Jan 27, 2004, 01:53 AM
Linksys WRT54G - firmware 1.42.3.
PowerMac G4 2x1.25GHz, Airport extreme card
iMac G4 800Mhz, airport card

I've enabled WPA Pre-shared key and selected TKIP from the pull-down. I've typed an 8-character WPA shared-key, and tried a "Group Key renewal" of both "0" and "300" seconds.

No joy whatsoever. The Mac's keep telling me there was a problem / incorrect key / can't join network.

Anyone have a similar setup that actually works? I'm beginning to suspect an incompatability between the LinkSys AP and the Airport cards.

Mike

MacBandit
Jan 27, 2004, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by michael_aos
Linksys WRT54G - firmware 1.42.3.
PowerMac G4 2x1.25GHz, Airport extreme card
iMac G4 800Mhz, airport card

I've enabled WPA Pre-shared key and selected TKIP from the pull-down. I've typed an 8-character WPA shared-key, and tried a "Group Key renewal" of both "0" and "300" seconds.

No joy whatsoever. The Mac's keep telling me there was a problem / incorrect key / can't join network.

Anyone have a similar setup that actually works? I'm beginning to suspect an incompatability between the LinkSys AP and the Airport cards.

Mike

You need to create the key on the Mac with Airport then type the code given into the blank in the Linksys setup page. It should be a lot more than 8 characters by the way. WAP created something like 18 characters.

Peej
Jan 27, 2004, 02:24 AM
I'm running a 12" 1GHz PB with an airport extreme card and a Netgear wireless 802.11g router and it's very fast and reliable. Very easy to set up for 128-bit as well. I've loaded the updates and found nothing changed. I've also used a linksys router in my lab and had dropout issues, but Netgear's been trouble-free.

:D

Santaduck
Jan 27, 2004, 02:24 AM
wpa is nice, but I wonder if this fixes the problem that many AEBS users have been having which is that the net connection simply dies. Mine dies about once per week (as opposed to 0 times in several years for my graphite ABS, ditto for netgear wireless routers), whereas others have experienced 3 drops per day.

This is not some silly configuration issue, and not a range/signal strength issue, these are power users who know their stuff and are reduced to either restarting the AEBS via the admin util if lucky, or in the majority of cases having to literally unplug the power, and plugging it back in.


There are quite a few posts & threads in apple discussion forums:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?14@186.e4sLa6QAcmT.2@.599f1876
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?14@186.e4sLa6QAcmT.2@.688d6ef3

Hopefully 5.3 will fix this, but time will tell.

michael_aos
Jan 27, 2004, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
You need to create the key on the Mac with Airport then type the code given into the blank in the Linksys setup page. It should be a lot more than 8 characters by the way. WAP created something like 18 characters.

Could I get you to elaborate a little bit? I'm not quite following you...

I tried "create an airport network" on the PowerMac, but it only has an option of 40-bit WEP.

I don't have an Airport base-station.

How do I create the initial key?

Thanks a bunch,

Mike

MacBandit
Jan 27, 2004, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by michael_aos
Could I get you to elaborate a little bit? I'm not quite following you...

I tried "create an airport network" on the PowerMac, but it only has an option of 40-bit WEP.

I don't have an Airport base-station.

How do I create the initial key?

Thanks a bunch,

Mike

What computer are you trying to access the airport network from? Do you connect the PowerMac wirelessly?

In any case you need to create the key on the system running Airport whatever that system may be. Once it generates the key you then write the key down and manually enter it into the security encryption area of the Linksys router setup.

tdhurst
Jan 27, 2004, 02:36 AM
[i]I have the same problem and Apple insisted that it's my 2.4ghz phone. I can't really get rid of the phone for a day to test if that's true...[/B]

Or you could just unplug your phone for a few minutes....

michael_aos
Jan 27, 2004, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
What computer are you trying to access the airport network from? Do you connect the PowerMac wirelessly?

In any case you need to create the key on the system running Airport whatever that system may be. Once it generates the key you then write the key down and manually enter it into the security encryption area of the Linksys router setup.

It must be because it is late...

I'm trying to access the airport (802.11b / 802.11g mixed) network from a PowerMac G4 (airport extreme) and / or iMac G4 (original 11Mbit airport). I've just installed the latest airport client (v3.3) updates that provide WPA support (in Panther) for legacy airport cards.

My stumbling block appears to be in creating the shared-key. Could I get you to explain EXACTLY how that is accomplished on the Mac? I'm not familiar with that mechanism. What do I click?

Remember -- no airport base-station.

Thank you,

Mike

MacBandit
Jan 27, 2004, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by michael_aos
It must be because it is late...

I'm trying to access the airport (802.11b / 802.11g mixed) network from a PowerMac G4 (airport extreme) and / or iMac G4 (original 11Mbit airport). I've just installed the latest airport client (v3.3) updates that provide WPA support (in Panther) for legacy airport cards.

My stumbling block appears to be in creating the shared-key. Could I get you to explain EXACTLY how that is accomplished on the Mac? I'm not familiar with that mechanism. What do I click?

Remember -- no airport base-station.

Thank you,

Mike

Well I don't have my laptop in front of me at the moment but it seems to me you need to open the Internet Connect app on either of the Airport machines. In Internet Connect you should be able to chose Airport and then there should be an option for encryption. From there you should be able to type in a few words or numbers or whatever and then have it generate an encryption key. Once you have that key you need to go to your other machine and type that key into it's Airport setup and then you need to open your Linksys routers setup page and enter it there. By the way if your Linksys router does not have WPA encryption then this will not work and you will need to continue using WEP.

michael_aos
Jan 27, 2004, 02:54 AM
OK, I think we're on the same page.

When I go into "Create network", I have the option of "Channel", and then a check-box for WEP, and a pull-down for 40-bit or 128-bit.

No mention of WPA.

And yes, with the newer firmware, the Linksys supports WPA.

I was hoping there was some "trick", like a "$" in front of the shared-key or something.

:(

The Linksys will generate a shared-key, based on an 8-63 character ASCII phrase. When I attempt to join the airport network, it appears to accept my shared-key (8-characters), but then says it is unable to join the network.

Mike

MacBandit
Jan 27, 2004, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by michael_aos
OK, I think we're on the same page.

When I go into "Create network", I have the option of "Channel", and then a check-box for WEP, and a pull-down for 40-bit or 128-bit.

No mention of WPA.

And yes, with the newer firmware, the Linksys supports WPA.

I was hoping there was some "trick", like a "$" in front of the shared-key or something.

:(

The Linksys will generate a shared-key, based on an 8-63 character ASCII phrase. When I attempt to join the airport network, it appears to accept my shared-key (8-characters), but then says it is unable to join the network.

Mike

You can't use the Linksys to generate a key. You need to generate a key on the Airport system and then type the end resulting generated key into the Linksys settings. Like I said it will be about 18 characters long if you use the 128bit WEP encryption.

iHack
Jan 27, 2004, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by mangoman
Thanks, all. This is good info to weigh in the coming days... If anyone else wants to weigh in on the reliability of using Airport Extreme over a hard-wired router, please do so. Again, thanks.

In my SoHo setup I've hard wired iMacs and a server, combined with a AE PB 12" and a cheap noname 801.11b card in my wifes Dell latitude LS. This setup is connected to my DSL through a Alcatel router/modem. I've set it up so that the Alcatel does DHCP, not the AEBS.
Always works. Never any trouble what so ever. Even though we have 2 2.4 GHz phones in the house (one for the family one for business) and use the microwave a lot (also in the 2.4 GHz band).

edit: we have European DECT phones. Apparently these differ from US phones (DCT?)

I love AE, can recommend it to anyone.
Someone here said that local circumstances may vary, however, and he is very right (what kind of equipment does your neighbor use?)

M.

PS. my wife has my old 12" notebook - same size as the PB, but without the optcal drive. She got it when I switched. At first she was happy to have her own computer, now she is bummed out she is the one without an Apple...)

iHack
Jan 27, 2004, 04:02 AM
Is this a panther-only update? I'm not seeing it in my jaguar softwareupdate. I would expect it to be version independent (at least partially) as my base station is not running any of the two big cats.

If this update adds a feature, I want it too!!

M.

displaced
Jan 27, 2004, 04:32 AM
Hi

I've googled this subject before -- in the U.S., digital cordless phones use the DCT standard and so really hurt 802.11b/g

Is it possible to use UK/European DECT phones over there, which do not cause interference? Or will they plain not work/lead to a visit from FCC stormtroopers? :)

big duane
Jan 27, 2004, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Trekkie
i hope it fixes my random 'have to go down into the garage and power cycle it because the whole network disappears' feature.

that's definitely my least favorite feature.

yoman
Jan 27, 2004, 11:09 AM
The only problem was my MAC address changed on me. So i had to play around with the router to allow my new MAC address to work.

Note: I have a netgear router

mrsebastian
Jan 27, 2004, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by big duane
that's definitely my least favorite feature.

same here, it's been very frustrating.

JeffTL
Jan 27, 2004, 11:23 AM
For those curious about network configs:

I am using, for a Windows/Linux/OS X network for a cable modem, a Netgear RP614 wired router for a Dell and a Gateway, a Netgear HE102 802.11a WAP for a Gateway laptop and another disused Gateway, and a no-modem Airport Extreme for two iBook G3s, two Palm Tungsten C's, and all future devices. It all works quite well

Quixcube
Jan 27, 2004, 11:24 AM
When I first got a batch of Airport Extreme base stations, I tried running them at the compatible setting that lets the client decide on the speed of connection. I got lousy performance, even though connections were being made with 802.11g. I tried forcing 802.11g thinking that maybe the auto negotiate feature was slowing me up. No improvement. I ended up forcing everything to fall back to 802.11b and got about twice the performance.

I hope my case is atypical. After that disappointment I stopped tinkering with them and just left them to work as 802.11b WAPs. I don't think it is due to interference, the signal strength is always high and it never cuts out.

Anyone else seen something like this? Firmware update fix it?

This is kinda in reply to questions about AEBS reliablilty at higher speeds...

Grimace
Jan 27, 2004, 11:58 AM
go with the linksys W54RTG or whatever their G-standard wirless router is. Plug in 4 hardwired computers and have G-standard wireless.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384663529&skuId=5250774&type=product&cmp=%20%20

$79 (rebate) at Bestbuy.

pb1212580
Jan 27, 2004, 12:29 PM
I think I have a slightly different problem.
I think most of you just turn the airport card off and on to reset it, but I have to always restart to get the airport card to work.

I have a couple of 12" powerbook G4s here and have just tried them under non-2.4ghz environment.
One of them definitly has some problem with the airport card. it cut off while the other one stayed on. I've tried logging off and closing programs... and of course turned the card off and on... and waited. Nothing. Because I've done lots of troubleshooting with Apple, they are just going to send me a new card to see if that'll work for me.
I've also tried changing channels.

Does anyone know, if it's simply the 2.4ghz phone/devices interrupting, I can just turn off and on the airport card to reset it and everything would work again, right? I shouldn't need to restat?

thanks!

pb1212580
Jan 27, 2004, 12:38 PM
I also LOVe the airport extreme station!
Not only does it look good... ;) it works so well.

Also use it for wireless printing with a HP USB all in one printer (only printing works for now...) It was working before Apple listed this particular model in their compatible list. had to do a little "advanced" setup, but all is worth it. I found tips at macosxhints.com

I think it's cheaper and less hassle than other options so far...

just my thoughts!
Go Apple!

MacBandit
Jan 27, 2004, 12:59 PM
My Netgear WGR614 has been completely painless and simple as well. Took me all of 2 minutes to get it setup. As for wireless printing. I turned on USB printer sharing in OSX on my desktop computer and our laptop doesn't have any problems connecting through the Netgear router to the desktop and then to the printer.

Also a huge benefit of 3rd party wireless routers is many as my Netgear has a built in ethernet router. I can connect 3 more hardwired computers to it if I wish.

michael_aos
Jan 27, 2004, 01:12 PM
I don't suppose you got a chance to peek at that config from your Mac?

As near as I can tell, there's no way to generate the WPA shared-key on the Mac.

I can create it on the router, but for some reason I can't connect.

http://homepage.mac.com/michael_aos/.Pictures/wpa.tiff

http://homepage.mac.com/michael_aos/.Pictures/wpa-2.tiff

http://homepage.mac.com/michael_aos/.Pictures/wpa-3.tiff

kanker
Jan 27, 2004, 01:47 PM
Just a bit of shopping advice for all of you near Apple retail stores. I got a 12" PB recently, and knew I was going that route for a couple of months, so I started thinking about getting an AEBS to use my broadband on both my iMac and my PB. I was looking at either Ed. prices or refurbs for a base and Airport card for the iMac. I happened to walk into my local Apple store on a day that they were clearing some stuff out, apparently they do this one weekend a month, can't remember which one, but I'm sure the store can tell you. Anyhow, I got the AEBS for $130 and the regular AP card for $50, about $20 cheaper than a new AEBS, with the full standard warranty. They also had computers and other periphs out at pretty good discounts. Call your local Apple stores to see when they do this, it's like an Apple garage sale.

MrMacMan
Jan 27, 2004, 02:50 PM
How... Didn't I get the credit for this article...

I posted it HOURS before on MacBytes.

What gives.

:(

:wwhhaattisstthaatt:

Bah.

eddyg
Jan 27, 2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by michael_aos
[B]I don't suppose you got a chance to peek at that config from your Mac?

As near as I can tell, there's no way to generate the WPA shared-key on the Mac.

I can create it on the router, but for some reason I can't connect.


My setup:

Linksys WAP54G
TiBook 1Ghz w/ Airport

To make this work with WPA I did the following:

1) Connected to Linksys via http, selected WPA from the security options.
2) Entered a 9chr passphrase
3) Saved settings, and the AP reset (good)
4) On the Mac I went to Network Settings
5) Selected the network
6) In the password box I entered the same pass phrase as I entered in the Linksys.
7) The network came up, and all was good.

Cheers,

Edward.

michael_aos
Jan 27, 2004, 04:20 PM
That is pretty straight-forward.

What could I POSSIBLY be doing wrong?

Are you in a MIXED envirement, or G-only?

This shouldn't be this difficult...

Mike

zync
Jan 27, 2004, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
900MHz phones have better range any how. They went to 2.4GHz because at the time the frequency was open and mostly unoccupied. Also at the same time they went to digital encryption. You can now buy a 900MHz phone that's also digital though. Remember the higher the frequency the tighter the wave length and the less capable it is of penetrating solid objects therefore a reduced range inside a building.

Definitely, not to mention everything interferes with 2.4GHz phones....my girlfirend's microwave makes her phone unuseable when heating something up :D

zync
Jan 27, 2004, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by appleretailguy
Or you could just unplug your phone for a few minutes....

agreed...lol

zync
Jan 27, 2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by carletonmusic
go with the linksys W54RTG or whatever their G-standard wirless router is. Plug in 4 hardwired computers and have G-standard wireless.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384663529&skuId=5250774&type=product&cmp=%20%20

$79 (rebate) at Bestbuy.

I'd much rather go with a netgear or possibly D-link...I've heard a lot (and have had personal experience) that linksys equipmet is terrible...

MacBandit
Jan 27, 2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by zync
I'd much rather go with a netgear or possibly D-link...I've heard a lot (and have had personal experience) that linksys equipmet is terrible...

I did a lot of research before buying my router and all the private reviews and magazine reviews seem to agree that the Netgear is the best wireless router on the market. It's the most compatible and least problem prone.

JeffTL
Jan 27, 2004, 06:12 PM
Netgear's hardware is pretty good...I went Apple on the 802.11b/g, but that was as much for convenience as anything; we were ordering a clearance-priced iBook and an Airport card for it, so the logical thing to do was to just stick on the modemless AEBS at academic rate. Perhaps Netgear would have sold something comparable for less, but the Apple one is particularly easy to configure.

michael_aos
Jan 27, 2004, 06:12 PM
I've tried changing my SSID (just in case something is cached), and disabling firewall on the AP as well is disabling software firewall on each of the Mac's.

Still nothing. Refuses to join.

I guess I'll try it once with my Win2K Laptop (and a trial-version WPA client).

Mike

MacBandit
Jan 27, 2004, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by JeffTL
Netgear's hardware is pretty good...I went Apple on the 802.11b/g, but that was as much for convenience as anything; we were ordering a clearance-priced iBook and an Airport card for it, so the logical thing to do was to just stick on the modemless AEBS at academic rate. Perhaps Netgear would have sold something comparable for less, but the Apple one is particularly easy to configure.

I don't think the anything could be easier to setup then the Netgear unless there was no setup at all. It literally took me about 3 mins including physically hooking it up.

michael_aos
Jan 27, 2004, 08:29 PM
Not sure what happened.

I power-cycled the Linksys -- I hadn't done that since the firmware-update a while back.

I updated the driver on my Win2K laptop -- thought I'd try that. Didn't want to work either.

Changed "authentication" from "Shared Key" to "open" (which was the default) and viola! Suddenly everything works.

Mike

MacBandit
Jan 27, 2004, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by michael_aos
Not sure what happened.

I power-cycled the Linksys -- I hadn't done that since the firmware-update a while back.

I updated the driver on my Win2K laptop -- thought I'd try that. Didn't want to work either.

Changed "authentication" from "Shared Key" to "open" (which was the default) and viola! Suddenly everything works.

Mike

Good to hear. I think it's a good thing to always power cycle a device after a firmware update. Most devices do this on their own but it doesn't hurt to do this again on your own.

peterjhill
Jan 28, 2004, 07:05 AM
The Airport Setup Assistant is also version 3.3. Has anyone tried to use it to setup WPA on an extreme basestation?

If you are having problems, that could be your issue.

Also, the WPA password will probably be available from a menu item, not from something that you click on in the airport admin utility window. It will be a long string of hex like this:
Hex equivalent password (WEP key): BC6AFB89373FE55C513D5DDDE8

(I have changed it, but that is the length of a 128 bit wep key)

In all seriousness, who do you all think are going to spend the effort to crack your wireless encryption? If you really care, use an IPSec vpn.

WPA will not make a difference when accessing https ssl secured web pages. Okay, Apple is stupid on .mac mail and does not support encrypted imap sessions. That is just cheap. AIM and iChat need to start using SSL. I would like to see easy creations of personal certificates on MacOS. These are SSL certificates that can be used to identify a person. It could be used for Mail and iChat.

Just a rant.

michael_aos
Jan 28, 2004, 08:46 AM
Actually, based on a recent "sales pitch" from TruSecure -- there has never been a single case of credit-card fraud that could be traced to "sniffing".

Https / ssl has little benefit in that area -- your credit-card info (for example) is far more likely to be gathered some other way.

That said -- if there WERE sniffing to happen, I think it would be more likely on my local LAN than at Amazon.com, for example (the other end of the pipe).

I can "see" two other 802.11[bg] networks from my house -- set up with no access controls, and no admin passwords.

I'm pretty excited about WPA!

:D

Mike

wordmunger
Jan 28, 2004, 09:10 AM
I just wanted to say that my AEBS hasn't dropped a connection since I installed the update yesterday--that's a record for me. Let's hope this update solves the problem for a lot of folks that have been experiencing it.

RBR2
Jan 28, 2004, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by peterjhill
WPA usually requires a RADIUS server to function. I am betting that you are not using that option. WPA fixes all the insecurities that the NSA put into the standard.

WPA Pre-Shared Key (or Personal Key as Apple calls it) is what is being implemented, not WPA Radius (which does require a server). Depending upon the manufacturer of the hardware involved the TKIP Encryption algorithm may be the only one presently supported. The AES algorithm is being implemented as part of the 802.1x development and should be available before too long by firmware upgrade for at least some hardware.

With my Linksys hardware the Apple software does not yet describe the password as WPA (it only leaves a WEP name), but accepts a WPA length password and under some circumstances when rejoining the network will ask for a WPA personal key to join the network until you save it in keychain.

Engagebot
Jan 28, 2004, 12:07 PM
if the wifi is just in your house, why use wpa keys anyway? just set up a mac filter for the machines you know will be on it. then nobody else can even see your SSID.

MacBandit
Jan 28, 2004, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Engagebot
if the wifi is just in your house, why use wpa keys anyway? just set up a mac filter for the machines you know will be on it. then nobody else can even see your SSID.

Just because it can't be seen doesn't mean it can't be detected. Simply detection is all thats needed to start sniffing. If you don't have encryption then there will really be nothing to sniff and they can nearly instantly know everything that's being transfered wirelessly.

dstorey
Jan 28, 2004, 12:43 PM
Is anyone having this problem: before i updated everything was fine. now when i restart, it complains saying there is no network, and do you want to create a new default one. i keep the remember me box checked and click yes, but alas everythime i restart I have to allow it to recreate the network settings.

MacBandit
Jan 28, 2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by dstorey
Is anyone having this problem: before i updated everything was fine. now when i restart, it complains saying there is no network, and do you want to create a new default one. i keep the remember me box checked and click yes, but alas everythime i restart I have to allow it to recreate the network settings.

Go to your network control pane in system preferences and delete the airport network recreate it and reset it up. That should fix it.

mkrishnan
Jan 28, 2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by dstorey
Is anyone having this problem: before i updated everything was fine. now when i restart, it complains saying there is no network, and do you want to create a new default one. i keep the remember me box checked and click yes, but alas everythime i restart I have to allow it to recreate the network settings.

On my iBook G4 / AE / AEBS, I did not have any problems. Which protection setting are you using? I'm using WPA. The only time I've ever had to do this was when I left for a couple of days and turned off the power block the AEBS was running off of, and then opened my iBook up without turning it back on. It automatically logged into the network of someone else in my building, and then when I turned on the AEBS I had to log in again.

Separate question: as a newbie...I installed the update, rebooted, and then ran the admin utility to upload the new software to the AEBS. Am I done or are there more steps? It's too bad that the updater software doesn't automatically check the rev level on the AEBS and tell you to update it (I wouldn't have done it, except for having read the thread).

Also separate annoyance...the AEBS admin utility is pretty easy to use, but it's too bad it isn't integrated into sys preferences....

wordmunger
Jan 28, 2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by mkrishnan

Separate question: as a newbie...I installed the update, rebooted, and then ran the admin utility to upload the new software to the AEBS. Am I done or are there more steps? It's too bad that the updater software doesn't automatically check the rev level on the AEBS and tell you to update it (I wouldn't have done it, except for having read the thread).


Yep, that's it. That's a good point about the updater. It would be better if it was automatic, as long as there was a way to manually override (in case the older version gives some people better performance).



Also separate annoyance...the AEBS admin utility is pretty easy to use, but it's too bad it isn't integrated into sys preferences....

Funny you mention that--as an Airport veteran, I find the newest version of the admin utility incredibly easy to use--but you're exactly right, integration into sys preferences would be even better. It should also be accessible from the signal strength icon in the menu bar. I hate hunting for it in the Utilities folder every time.

I guess the idea behind hiding is is that newbies shouldn't have to worry about it--all the options are intimidating. But how about having the basic options in sys preferences, with an "advanced options" button for uber-geek stuff?

EDIT: I just realized why they don't have it there: it would mean anyone on an airport network could update the firmware. What if the new version of firmware messed up the airport connection for others on the network? This really is an advanced option, and so should probably be hidden somehow. It's definitely a tough problem.

gregorypierce
Jan 28, 2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by zync
I'd much rather go with a netgear or possibly D-link...I've heard a lot (and have had personal experience) that linksys equipmet is terrible...

I will ditto this. Went through a WEP-11 and a Linksys G router before getting a Netgear which has had absolutely no problems and greater range.

gregorypierce
Jan 28, 2004, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by wordmunger
EDIT: I just realized why they don't have it there: it would mean anyone on an airport network could update the firmware. What if the new version of firmware messed up the airport connection for others on the network? This really is an advanced option, and so should probably be hidden somehow. It's definitely a tough problem.

Protection through obscurity isn't really protection. A user still has the ability to launch that utility, so if they don't want you to use it - they should just remove it altogether or require administrator rights on the hardware being updated (the wireless router). A lot of those things in the utilities folder are too well hidden and unless you know that they're there you'll get frustrated looking for the functionality.

I remember the first time I was deploying a Java WebStart application to OSX and looking around for where the OS was keeping that and the Java plugin settings. Same thing when dealing with Bluetooth configurations.

WM.
Jan 28, 2004, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by gregorypierce
Protection through obscurity isn't really protection. A user still has the ability to launch that utility, so if they don't want you to use it - they should just remove it altogether or require administrator rights on the hardware being updated (the wireless router).
Which is exactly what Apple does. You need to know the base station password in order to update the firmware. So only the person who set up the base station (and whomever they give the base station password to) can update it.
A lot of those things in the utilities folder are too well hidden and unless you know that they're there you'll get frustrated looking for the functionality.

I remember the first time I was deploying a Java WebStart application to OSX and looking around for where the OS was keeping that and the Java plugin settings. Same thing when dealing with Bluetooth configurations.
I think it makes quite a bit of sense to do it this way--with fairly mundane configuration available in System Preferences and more advanced stuff done via stand-alone apps in a Utilities folder. What would you prefer instead--do you really want all these options cluttering up your System Preferences?

WM

Engagebot
Jan 28, 2004, 07:20 PM
LinkSys stuff is great... except when an Airport Extreme device comes into the mix.

linksys wifi stations generally work great with pc gear, and even with the original airport, but there are a lot of problems with linksys/AE combinations. especially the befw11s4 routers (the 'Wireless-B' router commonly available at bestbuy, ect.

Engagebot
Jan 28, 2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by carletonmusic
go with the linksys W54RTG or whatever their G-standard wirless router is. Plug in 4 hardwired computers and have G-standard wireless.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384663529&skuId=5250774&type=product&cmp=%20%20

$79 (rebate) at Bestbuy.

please dont do this. linksys and AE cards dont play nicely together.

MacBandit
Jan 28, 2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Engagebot
please dont do this. linksys and AE cards dont play nicely together.

I agree as I've said I did a lot of research and the Magazines and personal review sites agree the Netgear WGR614 is hard to beat if you want a 802.11G wireless router with a true and excellent built in firewall that takes no time or skill to setup.

You can pick them up at Amazon.com right now for $56.99 after rebate.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008SCFL/qid=1075345355//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl147/103-0098434-6132666?v=glance&s=pc&n=507846

nydoofus
Jan 28, 2004, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Engagebot
please dont do this. linksys and AE cards dont play nicely together.

Mine combo (WRT54G + 2.00Firmware + Al15) plays together just fine.

Engagebot
Jan 28, 2004, 10:01 PM
i used to work for the computing services department here at LSU (basically student worker IT). We have a campus-wide network that includes a blanket of wi-fi access all over campus. linksys access points not only in every building, but sometimes more than one per floor, not to mention the parade grounds, the union, the cafeterias, and the dorms.

Granted, the majority of our access points are 802.11b, so i cant speak as well for the G routers, take my word for it: AE and linksys B equipment aren't friends.

chumsferd
Jan 29, 2004, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by dstorey
Is anyone having this problem: before i updated everything was fine. now when i restart, it complains saying there is no network, and do you want to create a new default one. i keep the remember me box checked and click yes, but alas everythime i restart I have to allow it to recreate the network settings.

I am having this problem as well. It's weird, I have my g4 iBook and a g5 dual networked together. I ibook is fine, but the g5 can't connect to the network. In fact, it can't even recognize the base station. When I open up the airport admin utility my basestation doesn't even show up!

this is really annoying.

Any suggestions?

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by chumsferd
I am having this problem as well. It's weird, I have my g4 iBook and a g5 dual networked together. I ibook is fine, but the g5 can't connect to the network. In fact, it can't even recognize the base station. When I open up the airport admin utility my basestation doesn't even show up!

this is really annoying.

Any suggestions?

Unplug your AEBS for while and then repower it and try again.

army_guy
Jan 29, 2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by mangoman
I'm gonna jump in here for a little while: I'm debating whether to dump this piece o' crap Belkin hard-wired router and go with Airport Extreme to use for my two macs. Just not convinced yet. I'm sure it'll be great for grabbing the laptop and walkin' around, but I don't want to lose my hyper-fast hard-wired cable modem connection if Airport Extreme is finicky.

Anyone doing a similar setup currently? Willing to endorse Airport Extreme?

I have the airport extreme for my dads 17" powerbook, its fine for internet including 2Mbit/s connections. However be aware the max data rate is approx 25Mbit/s not the 55Mbits Apple claims, half of the rate is overhead. For networking even 100Mbit/s is 4x as fast and Gigabit is 40x as fast so for networking bin it and hardwire it.

sjk
Jan 29, 2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
You can't use the Linksys to generate a key. You need to generate a key on the Airport system and then type the end resulting generated key into the Linksys settings.The WEP Key Maker (http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/networking_security/wepkeymaker.html) utility can be used to generate WEP keys.

michael_aos
Jan 29, 2004, 03:05 PM
Actually you just type your WEP phrase into the Linksys, and it generates the 40-bit / 128-bit HEX for use on the Mac.

Mike

sjk
Jan 29, 2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by peterjhill
Okay, Apple is stupid on .mac mail and does not support encrypted imap sessions.Unless I've misread tcpdump output my imaps (port 993) sessions to mail.mac.com with Mulberry are encrypted.

I wish it were possible to use different passwords for different services with a single .Mac account. I dislike sharing a mail and iDisk password, for example.

sjk
Jan 29, 2004, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
I agree as I've said I did a lot of research and the Magazines and personal review sites agree the Netgear WGR614 is hard to beat if you want a 802.11G wireless router with a true and excellent built in firewall that takes no time or skill to setup. Anyone know the maximum number of ports that can be forwarded with the WGR614 and whether TCP and UDP can be handled separately?

I've started doing a bit of wireless network product research since I'll probably have a couple new AE-capable Mac systems within a few months. For now I'm stuck using 802.11b with my iBook 600 Airport card so there's been no reason to upgrade my Linksys BEFSR41 (>5-year-old rev1 model) + Orinoco RG-1100 hardware, which has been very reliable with decent WLAN reception (better than I'd expected for a cement & chicken wire walled environment).

eddyg
Jan 29, 2004, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by michael_aos
Actually you just type your WEP phrase into the Linksys, and it generates the 40-bit / 128-bit HEX for use on the Mac.

Mike

Note that to actually see the generated WEP key I had to save the Security settings (thus closing the window) and then open them again, this time the WEP key in Hex was on display.

Cheers, Edward.

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by sjk
Anyone know the maximum number of ports that can be forwarded with the WGR614 and whether TCP and UDP can be handled separately?

I've started doing a bit of wireless network product research since I'll probably have a couple new AE-capable Mac systems within a few months. For now I'm stuck using 802.11b with my iBook 600 Airport card so there's been no reason to upgrade my Linksys BEFSR41 (>5-year-old rev1 model) + Orinoco RG-1100 hardware, which has been very reliable with decent WLAN reception (better than I'd expected for a cement & chicken wire walled environment).

I know of no limit to the number of forwarded ports. I've had several dozen at once at times.

mkrishnan
Jan 30, 2004, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by wordmunger
EDIT: I just realized why they don't have it there: it would mean anyone on an airport network could update the firmware. What if the new version of firmware messed up the airport connection for others on the network? This really is an advanced option, and so should probably be hidden somehow. It's definitely a tough problem.

I guess this does make sense...although it could be fixed in a variety of ways, like having an admin password for the AEBS (which home users could default to match their own password) or only letting admin accounts on the macs edit the AEBS settings. But it probably makes sense.

And I should say that the AEBS software is somewhat more intuitive than the web-based settings editing on the Linksys stuff I've used. Overall, the AEBS was pretty easy to use and I didn't really need to read any manuals to get anything working, including wireless printing.

Another newbie question. I set up the WPA personal just cuz it was there -- I don't use a particularly strong PW or anything. I guess from reading around a lot of PC users, esp, don't use any kind of security on their home wireless network. In fact, as I mentioned before, once I came home after having been gone for several days, and I turned my iBook on when my AEBS and cable modem etc were all turned off (I turned off the power strip), and it automatically logged me into someone else's 802.11 network.

So, is it quite common for people to run home 802.11, in apartments for instance, without any kind of security (WPA or WEP or even a basic password request)?

Engagebot
Jan 30, 2004, 11:26 AM
So, is it quite common for people to run home 802.11, in apartments for instance, without any kind of security (WPA or WEP or even a basic password request)?

Quite common in fact. In my college apartment here, i get 4 other wifi networks besides mine. 3 are complete default routers with 'admin' as the password, and the 4th one is my girlfriends wifi which i set up with MAC filtering.

even coffee shops and whatnot dont even change the admin password a lot of the time.

MacBandit
Jan 30, 2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Engagebot
Quite common in fact. In my college apartment here, i get 4 other wifi networks besides mine. 3 are complete default routers with 'admin' as the password, and the 4th one is my girlfriends wifi which i set up with MAC filtering.

even coffee shops and whatnot dont even change the admin password a lot of the time.

Just remember MAC filtering alone will not keep people from viewing your transmissions and getting personal information. It just keeps people from logging on to you network.

Mason
Jan 30, 2004, 01:49 PM
I was having troubles with my wireless this morning (no signal) and then updated to 3.3 - however, now I can't get any signal at all from the base station. When I go to airport setup it says no networks found. I've reset the base station and I've turned it off for a while and then turned it back on, but nothing seems to work. I'm at a loss as to how to proceed next. Anyone have any ideas?



P.S. I don't have a 2.4ghz phone or anything else that would seem to interfere with the signal.

sjk
Jan 30, 2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
I know of no limit to the number of forwarded ports. I've had several dozen at once at times. Sounds good, tho' the manual doesn't show it having the capability of forwarding TCP and UDP separately (like on my Linksys router)... only for outgoing port filtering.

mkrishnan
Jan 30, 2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Just remember MAC filtering alone will not keep people from viewing your transmissions and getting personal information. It just keeps people from logging on to you network.

Stupid newbie admission: at first, until I read a website about it, I thought MAC filtering meant you set the base station to only work with Apple computers. :( Right along with someone here on Macrumors who has a tagline to the effect that virii do not target Macs and so no antivirus s/w is required.....

From what it is, it doesn't sound terribly secure....but I guess I still need to read more on what the difference between WEP, WPA, MAC, etc are.

MacBandit
Jan 30, 2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by mkrishnan
Stupid newbie admission: at first, until I read a website about it, I thought MAC filtering meant you set the base station to only work with Apple computers. :( Right along with someone here on Macrumors who has a tagline to the effect that virii do not target Macs and so no antivirus s/w is required.....

From what it is, it doesn't sound terribly secure....but I guess I still need to read more on what the difference between WEP, WPA, MAC, etc are.

Nearly ever networking device has a MAC address (Media Access Control) it's like a serial number for that device. It's a unique finger print that's very hard to impersonate. When you register a wireless network to a known MAC address what it means is you locked in the serial number for that device or devices and no other device can access the network unless you specifically add their MAC address. This however has nothing to do with encrypting data traffic.

If you want to know the bassic definitions of terms like WEP, MAC, WPA, TCP, IP, etc.. This is a great tech dictionary sight.

http://www.webopedia.com

About anti-virus. Unless transfer data back and forth from Macs to PCs theirs really no need for an anti-virus program on a Mac running OSX at this point. There may be need in the future but at this point there really isn't any viruses. The reason I mention PCs is you can still carry the virus on your computer and spread it to the PCs even though you are not yourself affected by it. Also you can get Word macro viruses but they really don't have any real affect on Macs as well.

teetoo
Jan 31, 2004, 03:08 AM
I'm now experiencing connection problems (since upgrading to 3.3). My TiBook connects to a DreyTek 2600, now either after waking up from a sleep or if I haven't used the network for a while it just doesn't connect to various webservices even though the airport menu icon appears to be connected to my home nextwork??

Switching to an ethernet only network and then back again in the Location dropdown fixes the problem - needless to say it's a right pain in the arse.

Anyone know if it's possible to downgrade back to the previous version?

MacBandit
Jan 31, 2004, 03:43 AM
Originally posted by teetoo
I'm now experiencing connection problems (since upgrading to 3.3). My TiBook connects to a DreyTek 2600, now either after waking up from a sleep or if I haven't used the network for a while it just doesn't connect to various webservices even though the airport menu icon appears to be connected to my home nextwork??

Switching to an ethernet only network and then back again in the Location dropdown fixes the problem - needless to say it's a right pain in the arse.

Anyone know if it's possible to downgrade back to the previous version?

Try deleting you config and then readding it. I've had this problem with the old airport software before.

mkrishnan
Jan 31, 2004, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
[B]If you want to know the bassic definitions of terms like WEP, MAC, WPA, TCP, IP, etc.. This is a great tech dictionary sight.

http://www.webopedia.com

I'm checking this out right now -- thanks!

Regarding virii, I do use Symantec, but only because my University offers it for free. It's been five years since I got a *PC* virus, so it's mostly a precaution.

But then again, back in the Amiga days, I got burnt by those stupid boot block virii...lame...can't believe this..."SOMETHING WONDERFUL IS HAPPENING" my butt.... :D Then again, back then people who wrote virii would put in cool 3D graphics displays to make up for ruining your software!

MacRAND
Jan 31, 2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Trekkie
i hope it fixes my random 'have to go down into the garage and power cycle it because the whole network disappears' feature. Thanks, now I don't feel alone having to recycle power to AirPort.

AirPortExtreme with a Dr.Bott Omni Antenna has worked flawlessly with my MacSense xRouter MIH-130 tied into SprintBroadband microwave, until this AirPort update came along.

I dutifully downloaded and installed the update in 1st my G3 iBook with non-extreme AirPort card, and later in my G4 (no AP card) which is tied by Ethernet cable to the AirPort Extreme Base Station, (and then the xRouter spreads Ethernet to various Printers and such).

Well, I wanted to wait to upload the new Firmware 5.3 until I was on the G4 and thus hardwired to the AirPort base station ...but I forgot, until last night when the "disappearing network" problem started.

Couldn't figure out why my iBook kept loosing internet access with a strong AP wireless signal indicated, while on the G4 it showed access was up and doing fine hardwired to the Broadband modem. The AirPort Base Station had to be the problem? Unplugged the AP and plugged it back in, and that resolved the problem...until the next episode, and the next... :mad:
Then I remembered the yet to be installed firmware and update on the G4. :(

First the AP update Install, then into the Utilities folder, run AirPort Admin Utility, and the firmware update was typically easy. :)
No more AP problems since! :D

However, while I got used to running Permissions with Disk Utility regularly in Jaguar, since Panther I've become, well ...neglectful. Oops! :eek:

This time when I ran it on the iBook, Permissions had to handle an iTunes update, and a bunch of new installs that did not get taken care of at the time. Good grief, there was a steady stream of thousands upon thousands of corrections...on and on and on. At least I could see some progress as the blue bar crept across my screen. I noticed a lot of localization files (languages) being corrected, so when Permissions were done I ran DeLocalizer, which removed several hundred MB of useless language files.

All clean! :D Works fine!

Xapplimatic
Jan 31, 2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by mangoman
Thanks, all. This is good info to weigh in the coming days... If anyone else wants to weigh in on the reliability of using Airport Extreme over a hard-wired router, please do so. Again, thanks.

I have ran Airport networks in my house of varying configurations including by cable or dialup modems... Here is my suggestion:

I have one iMac designated as a network server for my house (which just means that its never to be turned off or everyone else loses their internet until its back on). Running 10.3.2, it works flawlessly and full-time in this capacity. The iMac has an 802.11b card and is connected directly to the cable modem via 10/100 Ethernet only. The cable modem is pulling speeds of up to 3 Mbps, and this does not even come close to the theoretical limits of 802.11b. All other computers in the house recieve hi-speed through 802.11b. There is NO Airport Base Station because the server uses its own AirPort card as a base station to share the Internet connection with the other Macs. I don't notice any speed difference between the Mac directly connected to the net and the Airport connected Macs.. however, there is one difference I will note that does not matter to anyone except online gamers. The Macs connected by Airport will have a slightly higher ping time because of the extra time added by routing the signal over wireless.. so if ping-time is an issue for a gamer in your house, make sure their computer is the server connected directly to the cable.. The overall throughput is the same however.

The truth is, in many cases--if not most--users don't need a dedicated Airport Base Station when all they need to do is put one of their existing Mac's Airport cards into full-time use. Just open the System Preferences Sharing panel and click on the last tab "Internet". This is where you can choose to setup the Airport Card as a base station. Simply select Airport in the list, click the setup tab to name the network and set a password for it (hint: Use an 11 char password for effective 128-bit security), and then back in the Internet panel, click the start button. The AP signal strength indicator icon in the menu bar (if shown) will change to show an upward arrow symbolic of the fact that your iMac's Airport is now being used as an uplink.

OS 9 users have an option in their Airport controls called Software Base Station which if fairly equivalent. OS 10-10.2 has a bug where System Preferences does not remember the state of Internet Sharing after a reboot, so I do not recomment them. OS 9 is OK for full time dedicated internet serving by software base station, as is OS 10.3 (ideal).

Save the hundreds of dollars you would spend on the extraneous base station, and donate half of it to me for the excellent advice! ;)