New macboook is a winner: yay or nay?

[marklight]

I think it's a homerun. I bought the previous iteration of the macbook pro because the macbook just lacked too much at the time, but if I could choose between the macbook pro and macbook today, I'd go with the macbook. I think it looks great, and the graphics boost it'll receive from the 9400m is great. Not to mention the updated trackpad is nice. Awesome.

[ubercool]

The $1,600 model will become the all-time best-seller. It has *everything* I want. :cool:

[Munitalp]

I think they're great

[NT1440]

1600 to get the backlit:(

Hopefully thats something i can do myself with a simple part order tho;)

[netdog]

I don't want one, but a lot of people are going to love it. A hit for sure.

[timestoby]

so they are still gonna sell the white macbook and the new macbook models are abit more expensive? if so then im abit dissappointed cause i wanted to have the macbook with the nvdia graphics,but will just see at the end.

[mlemonds]

hell of a machine

iWant

what is going to be the fate of the blackbook

[andrewdale]

I think the 1599 will be the next purchase for me. Wife needs a new notebook.

[marklight]

1600 to get the backlit:(

Hopefully thats something i can do myself with a simple part order tho;)

it has the .4ghz speed bump as well which is pretty significant, as well as 100gb more HD space which is also really nice. I think the 1600 model is awesome.

[Elaralas]

I feel like the entry level of the new Macbooks is just great for me. Has everything the Pro has except Pro graphics, but still has better graphics than previous gen. I will be buying my second Apple computer this weekend, the first being 12 years ago,lol. And I just turn 20 yesterday, great b-day gift to my self

[khunsanook]

Finally something that sort of fills that 12" PowerBook gap. I know a lot of people who are going to snap these things up and finally retire they're 12 inchers.

Solid update

[brettinlj]

So I've been waiting months to pay $1300 for a 2.0Ghz processor. Maybe the overall performance gain will be worth it (but I'm not a gamer). I'm canceling my trip to the Apple store Saturday and am going to wait for some real world, non-gaming benchmarks to come out to decide whether I go for this model or the outgoing 2.4Ghz Blackbook on clearance or used.

In this economy and having to pay graduate school tuition, I need to stretch my dollar as much as I can.

[NT1440]

it has the .4ghz speed bump as well which is pretty significant, as well as 100gb more HD space which is also really nice. I think the 1600 model is awesome.

Oh no i meant its gonna cost me 1600 to get a macbook with the backlit (IM GETTING THAT BACKLIGHT DAMMIT! :p ) keyboard. Im not saying that was the only difference.

[marklight]

Oh no i meant its gonna cost me 1600 to get a macbook with the backlit (IM GETTING THAT BACKLIGHT DAMMIT! :p ) keyboard. Im not saying that was the only difference.

hahahaha, I see. Yea it's pretty nuts to not have it in the lower end model.. can't be that expensive to add it.

[DeusInvictus7]

it has the .4ghz speed bump as well which is pretty significant, as well as 100gb more HD space which is also really nice. I think the 1600 model is awesome.

i hear ya...thats the model im getting too...TOMORROW!!! yay!

also, the 1600 model has a backlit keyboard as well...awesome!

[ubercool]

I will be lining up at the San Francisco Apple Store tomorrow! :p

But one thing was *not* mentioned: what about easy upgradability? Nothing said about the MacBook! :confused:

[logicsuggests]

Totally lame that the base aluminum mac book CPU is 2ghz. - it's like they are forcing themselves not to give it a better cpu because people will then see how pathetically overpriced the mac book pros are.

Lack of tactile feedback on the glass track pad button will be annoying too.

[NT1440]

Lack of tactile feedback on the glass track pad button will be annoying too.

Huh?

[ubercool]

Lack of tactile feedback on the glass track pad button will be annoying too.

Don't knock it until you try it! :cool:

[brettinlj]

Jason Chen:
"To be clear, these two models are going to be on top of the white plastic MacBook which comes at $999."

<Google Translation>

"To be clear, we couldn't unload enough of the old ones during the back to school season, and the average consumer can't afford our new 2.0Ghz baseline Macbook in this economy so we are going to have a fire sale."

[marklight]

It appears the lower end macbook has the backlit keyboard as well from the store configuration.

[Blakely028]

The MacBook in the Uk is now £20 more expensive! Wtf? I thought it was supposed to be cheaper!! :(:(

[TheReef]

Sigh at lack of FireWire. Can't believe it actually looks like that. Why the black?
This will take some time to get used to.

FireWire > backlit.

[Deschain]

It's nice, sure, but i'm a little underwhelmed.

The upgraded graphics is nice but i don't game on my macbook (i have a 2.4ghz blackbook) and it still doesn't match my desktop so any heavy lifting is better suited for that anyway.

Backlit keyboard -- looks cool but i don't look at my keys when i type so ultimatley it isn't worth anything to me

Multi touch pad -- nice touch, but, from my experience with the air, i don't really use gestures, being able to scroll with 2 fingers and click with 2 fingers is all i need in my touch pad

Aluminum body -- pretty..that's about it

LED screen -- brightness isn't an issue with my macbook so that isn't an issue, if it improves battery life that is nice (not sure what kind of improvement is expected?)

The new macbook is very nice, it will definitely bring in some new customers but there really isn't much besides a pretty case to make current macbook owners want to switch (except for those who just want the latest and greatest and that is really just an ego thing..)

[marvel2]

I am more impressed with the new MB than I am with the Pro. Apple was able to keep the dimensions similar while still reducing the weight.

[Munitalp]

So whats up with the BACKLIT keyboard? It says both models have it on the order page but in his presentation it said that it was a feature only for the $1599 one...

[illu]

everything i was waiting for in a macbook, so definitely a thumbs up

[Eidorian]

And in the next revision FireWire will be back... :rolleyes:

Remember FireWire 800 on the MacBook Pro?

[mlemonds]

guess when i upgrade i will have to get the pro so i can still use my camcorder

[NT1440]

Im checking out the options on apples site right now, and unless theres an error or something. BACKLIT IS STANDARD on the 1299 macbook. (there was no option to choose non backlit, only backlit)

:)

[BLACK MAC]

Can we upgrade to SSD hard drive over the traditional one? I want to purchase the 320gb now, and add a SSD when they become cheaper with larger drives. Any idea if you can do this upgrade?

[Munitalp]

Im checking out the options on apples site right now, and unless theres an error or something. BACKLIT IS STANDARD on the 1299 macbook. (there was no option to choose non backlit, only backlit)

:)

Yeah I noticed that too, weird though that in the presentation it listed it as a feature of the $1599 one... I hope they didn't screw up

[NT1440]

Yeah I noticed that too, weird though that in the presentation it listed it as a feature of the $1599 one... I hope they didn't screw up

I think they did, im looking at engadgets pics right now and it look like that keyboard isnt backlit.....

will apple be forced to honor those who purchase now under these (presumidly wrong) conditions?

[Tensakun]

Damn straight I'm going for it!:D

Will have to learn to live without FW...notice my videocam (which I never use) also has USB out. Need to replace my small FW external HDs anyway...

Wonder if 3rd party sources will have compatible SD drives for significantly lower than 600 bucks...not likely. And suppose that Apple will of course NOT give you the stock HD to use as a backup when they replace it with the SD.

All in all, I'm jazzed and ready to lighten my bank account!:rolleyes:

[Jpoon]

I'm sad they didn't include a 999 aluminum version, but hey, we can't have everything can we?

[Munitalp]

I think they did, im looking at engadgets pics right now and it look like that keyboard isnt backlit.....

will apple be forced to honor those who purchase now under these (presumidly wrong) conditions?

I hope they fix it soon

[Munitalp]

Their store just went to the "Updating, We'll Be Back Soon" thing again, maybe they are revising the thing about the Backlight

[Mousse]

And in the next revision FireWire will be back... :rolleyes:

Indeed. The lack of FireWire or any real high speed port will makes me ambivalent about this new MacBook.

Likes: Trackpad, Better Graphics, LED Backlight

Dislike: Lack of high speed port:mad:, aluminum case

So it's three to two in favor of liking the new MacBook.:p

[pointandclick]

Too much.:(
I realize that they're trying to make sure they don't kill the MBP, but honestly the only thing the Pro has is graphics and screen size. I didn't buy a MBP for the backlit keyboard, or a metal case, or because an extra 200mhz matters... I bought it for the dedicated graphics. The 9400 is great for this machine, but it's still not truly dedicated. Heck, it's still only half as fast as what's been in the Pro's for a year and a half.

I would consider selling my MBP for one if they were at the current price point. Seems like more of a forced upgrade than a lineup refresh.

[bombboy]

Typing from my BlackBook makes me a bit sad to think that he no longer has family. But I would give him up in a heartbeat to get my hands on the new MB or MBP. Time to save up.

[xstorm101]

glossy only makes macbooks a no no for people who work in graphics... big mistake apple..

[BoingoBongo]

Jason Chen:
"To be clear, these two models are going to be on top of the white plastic MacBook which comes at $999."

<Google Translation>

"To be clear, we couldn't unload enough of the old ones during the back to school season, and the average consumer can't afford our new 2.0Ghz baseline Macbook in this economy so we are going to have a fire sale."

"OH MY GOD, they're having a fire...sale!"

[mlemonds]

glossy only makes macbooks a no no for people who work in graphics... big mistake apple..

i agree, shows that they are choosing style over substance

[Nykwil]

how are ram upgrades going to be like on these new macbooks?

Behind the battery?

[darngooddesign]

...but there really isn't much besides a pretty case to make current macbook owners want to switch (except for those who just want the latest and greatest and that is really just an ego thing..)

Maybe not for you, but for me...
LED screen (its quite likely that the screen is higher quality than the current MB screen, just like the Air has a better quality screen)
Backlit keyboard
Better graphics card

I want those things, and it has nothing to do with ego.


...but honestly the only thing the Pro has is graphics and screen size...
Express Card slot
More ports
Bigger battery (50w vs 45w)

[mlemonds]

how are ram upgrades going to be like on these new macbooks?

Behind the battery?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6412682&postcount=3

looks like it is user replaceable from the diagram on the battery cover

[tehFish]

I like the new style but I'm not sure it's gong to be the functional laptop i wanted...The glossy screen is kind of a turn off and the 2.4ghz version is pretty pricey.. But I love the aluminum casing and the overall style.

Maybe I'll have to go back and compare to a black macbook...

[Moks]

wasn't the base macbook 699 UK pounds before? It's 719 now...
So much for price cuts. And the top-end all-new alu model is 1,149 UK pounds. Bit more than I was expecting. Might as well go for the pro as its only 250 quid more, and has the firewire port which I could really do with anyway. I would prefer 13" size tho.

Bummer.:confused:

[brettinlj]

An interesting article published about 20 minutes ago:

http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/10/14/the-800-rumor-that-spoiled-apples-party/

Pretty much calls out that Apple will not get that extra low-end market share, the share price is reflecting that, and that Apple doesn't care as it will enter that market when it D#$m well pleases and at its own pace.

[Nykwil]

yikes ddr3 notebook ram is pricey

[sangosimo]

I like this new device but I still think apple is going to attract people with such a svelte design.

[Auzburner]

There is absolutely nothing else I want in a Notebook! It's Perfect!!! And more...

[Benedict]

I wont buy it. No FW no deal.

[judgemental]

I think the new MacBooks are impressive.

However, I was really hoping to see apple release something in the Netbook category or an entry level laptop to compete with PC's laptops in pricing. I think apple could really kill if they ever decided to release a lower priced machine.

[Shackler]

Amazing upgrade.
still happy with my Blackbook though not upgrading.
Speakers still suck

[Nykwil]

There is absolutely nothing else I want in a Notebook! It's Perfect!!! And more...

i7 chips?

[NT1440]

yikes ddr3 notebook ram is pricey

bout as much to buy seperatly as it is for apple to just do it for you.

But DDR3 is an impovement (apparantly)

[gan6660]

went through the ordering proccess and the $1299 one comes with backlit keyboard to!

[Nykwil]

bout as much to buy seperatly as it is for apple to just do it for you.

But DDR3 is an impovement (apparantly)

true.

[cthomet]

go refurb store! :D

[krye]

Yay all the way! They look amazing. I can't wait to get my hands on one. Too bad I'll have to wait until I get next years taxes back.

[brettinlj]

go refurb store! :D

Lol, me too. I bet I can guess what you're looking at too. ;) It seems like a bargain now!

[cube]

No FireWire == another garbage netbook like Macbook Air :mad:

[Vulcan]

I think that the update was a horrible one.

First off, Apple fails to make a line between consumer and professional, and I honestly believe Apple should just drop every single notebook line and make on generic MacBook. Make a 12" notebook (thin, no optical drive), a 15", and a 17" with smaller sections in between, you could easily make a complete transition under just one simple name.

Removal of firewire and matte displays was horrible. Home users use firewire as well, not just "pros." Matte, graphic designers need it, and not even in their over priced monitors will they carry the option anymore. Horrible.

But at least we got a cool new design right? Wrong. In my opinion, it looks tacky and cheap, and no where near the beauty of the past MacBook Pro's and PowerBooks. Before, they had an extremely professional style to them, that made them seem like any true business person wouldn't be caught dead without one. Now, it looks tacky and I can't stand the multi-color look of them.

Price cuts, we have to have them if anything, correct? Wrong once again. Student discounts were cut by 50%, and the only discount was on the old White MacBook. The top end MacBook was increased by $100, rest stayed the same.

[localoid]

No Firewire is a deal breaker.

[eGraeme]

i love it
ill be selling my mbp for a mb
woot

did anyone notice them say BACKLIT ON HIGH LEVEL MB ONLY
but... at the store, it says illuminated for the mid level as well
i checked on the MB page, and it says illuminated only for high level
i wonder if there wll be a slew of wanna-sues out there ordering the mid level and not getting the lit up keyboard and bitching
hope they change that!

[eGraeme]

i love that "JUST MACBOOK!" thing
ive been thinking that forever now
however.. they seem to love that 13.3
so id say just add in a 9 or 10"
is 12 - 13.3 enuf of a difference?
i only ask, cause i just dont see them abandoning the mystical 13.3
it must be a magic steve nemesis plot number

firewire isnt a big deal to me personally
as i dont use it
i had that eyeball webcam.. err.. like in 1998? which was firewire
nothing since then
tho i understand digivid cameras could use it, and that seems like something an avg macbook'er might want
could u get a fw-usb adapter? and if so, would it work well enuf to consider it?

i love glossy displays, and one of my hobbies is digital photography
am i a professional photographer... no.
if i were, id want a separate larger monitor to plug into anyways
so removing it as an option doesnt hurt me here either
however! not making a matte option for the lcd panels is... odd.
i understand the benefit of them for color work
i wonder if theyll release some whacky overlay adapter when they update the 30" ?

I think that the update was a horrible one.

First off, Apple fails to make a line between consumer and professional, and I honestly believe Apple should just drop every single notebook line and make on generic MacBook. Make a 12" notebook (thin, no optical drive), a 15", and a 17" with smaller sections in between, you could easily make a complete transition under just one simple name.

Removal of firewire and matte displays was horrible. Home users use firewire as well, not just "pros." Matte, graphic designers need it, and not even in their over priced monitors will they carry the option anymore. Horrible.

But at least we got a cool new design right? Wrong. In my opinion, it looks tacky and cheap, and no where near the beauty of the past MacBook Pro's and PowerBooks. Before, they had an extremely professional style to them, that made them seem like any true business person wouldn't be caught dead without one. Now, it looks tacky and I can't stand the multi-color look of them.

Price cuts, we have to have them if anything, correct? Wrong once again. Student discounts were cut by 50%, and the only discount was on the old White MacBook. The top end MacBook was increased by $100, rest stayed the same.

[Vulcan]

i love it
ill be selling my mbp for a mb
woot

did anyone notice them say BACKLIT ON HIGH LEVEL MB ONLY
but... at the store, it says illuminated for the mid level as well
i checked on the MB page, and it says illuminated only for high level
i wonder if there wll be a slew of wanna-sues out there ordering the mid level and not getting the lit up keyboard and bitching
hope they change that!

Good luck getting enough cash, Apple has refurb MBP's for $1350.

[mosx]

This update is freaking hilarious.

$1299 for a 2GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB of RAM, and INTEGRATED GRAPHICS?

WHY are they still using INTEGRATED GRAPHICS!?

Go to nvidia's page. The 9400M "system on a chip" is based on the 9100M IGP! Which isn't anywhere near as fast as the 8400M GS (neither is the 9300M GS) that Apple should have used.

This is stupid.

Apple's product page for the MacBook is hilarious too. They take 3 games that the Intel IGPs were absolutely terrible at playing just because of the way the games were programmed and they scream "SEE! IT'S 6 TIMES FASTER!"

This update just has me laughing in disbelief. Both at the fact that Apple thinks they can get away with this kind of pricing nonsense and the fact that people will fall victim to it.

I was hoping this event today would bring some common sense into Apple's product line by including standard features, like dedicated GPUs (LMAO@256MB 9600M GT for $1999 in the MBP) but all it has done is driven home the fact that PCs are a much better deal. $1199 at HP for a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 512MB GeForce 9600M GT, 1680x1050 15.4" screen, and similar real world battery life.

[Beric]

The new "high-end" MB is a total rip-off.

Check out what you can get for $1,328.99 from HP (BTO).

dv5t series
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor P8600 (2.4 GHz)
15.4" diagonal WSXGA+ High-Definition Widescreen Display (1680 x 1050)
3GB RAM
250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
Wireless N + Bluetooth.

All for $1328.99

Apple could make the exact same machine and still turn a profit. But they're charging almost $300 more for a machine that has a WAY worse graphics card, and smaller, lower-res screen. For all that, the MB costs at least $500 more than the HP.

[eGraeme]

went through the ordering proccess and the $1299 one comes with backlit keyboard to!

im wondering if thats a mistake
as on the basic macbook page, it lists it seperately for the pricey one

[mlemonds]

The new "high-end" MB is a total rip-off.

Check out what you can get for $1,328.99 from HP (BTO).

dv5t series
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor P8600 (2.4 GHz)
15.4" diagonal WSXGA+ High-Definition Widescreen Display (1680 x 1050)
3GB RAM
250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
Wireless N + Bluetooth.

All for $1328.99

Apple could make the exact same machine and still turn a profit. But they're charging almost $300 more for a machine that has a WAY worse graphics card, and smaller, lower-res screen. For all that, the MB costs at least $500 more than the HP.

if that is what you want, buy the HP

say goodbye to having the glass touchpad, backlit keys, killer OS, and most of all an :apple:

[glenzade]

This update just has me laughing in disbelief. Both at the fact that Apple thinks they can get away with this kind of pricing nonsense and the fact that people will fall victim to it.

I was hoping this event today would bring some common sense into Apple's product line by including standard features, like dedicated GPUs (LMAO@256MB 9600M GT for $1999 in the MBP) but all it has done is driven home the fact that PCs are a much better deal. $1199 at HP for a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 512MB GeForce 9600M GT, 1680x1050 15.4" screen, and similar real world battery life.

I was so set on gettin the new macbook whatever it was but It knocked me into disbelief, WTF its so expensive and it looks crappy compared to the old one, I dont care about its build and how recyclable it is just do something to lower the price for us poor college students, it really slapped college students in the face. In my country the price for the white macbook actually went up! and the price for the old MBP was around 1000, the new MB sells at 999 gbp. Now tell me that is ok! Seriously it seems like they are too good to go below a certain price and want to chance their luck at their sales momentum. Since I had a pc all my life and no viruses (virii?) and never a major crash just a little one that crashes firefox about once a month I think ill stay thank you. Im still in disbelief, thank you apple for f*kin up a great line.

[mosx]

The new "high-end" MB is a total rip-off.

Check out what you can get for $1,328.99 from HP (BTO).

dv5t series
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor P8600 (2.4 GHz)
15.4" diagonal WSXGA+ High-Definition Widescreen Display (1680 x 1050)
3GB RAM
250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
Wireless N + Bluetooth.

All for $1328.99

Apple could make the exact same machine and still turn a profit. But they're charging almost $300 more for a machine that has a WAY worse graphics card, and smaller, lower-res screen. For all that, the MB costs at least $500 more than the HP.

Exactly.

The new MacBook and MacBook Pro updates are just... I don't know, I can't even think of a word for it. Terrible, hilarious, stupid, ridiculous are some words that come to mind.

This is just too funny. Whats even funnier is that people are still going to buy these and think they're getting a good system.

At least they don't have to worry about plastic cracking any more. Now they just have to worry about heat and infertility.

if that is what you want, buy the HP

say goodbye to having the glass touchpad, backlit keys, killer OS, and most of all an :apple:

So somehow a glass trackpad and backlit keys are better than a 400MHz faster CPU, graphics that are faster than those in the MacBook Pro, and other STANDARD features like memory card readers and HDMI output?

OS X is far from killer. Don't even get me started on that. The only thing "killer" about it is how it will kill you from stress with all of the problems it has (I've owned 2 MacBooks with endless problems in OS X but rock solid in Windows).

I'll take a solid HP with hardware thats spec'ed right for the money over any of these new MBs and MBPs any day.

Of Apple's entire notebook line, the ONLY one that should have integrated graphics is the MacBook Air. The $999 MacBook should be about $300 cheaper considering its specs.

[mlemonds]

i agree that the prices are on the high end, i am not buying now but instead waiting to see if they will react to the slowing economy.

[cherry su]

If it can be used while resting on bare legs then Apple's got a winner. However, I won't be retiring my CD MBP until 802.11n is out of draft and USB3 is official

[scienide09]

I've been waiting for the updates to buy a new MacBook. I need a new computer, but the wife have been waiting to see what Apple would release.

I'm not so pleased with the Canadian prices, but expect I'll buy one of these in the next few days.

EDIT: I completely forgot to add the fact that FireWire isn't a concern for me. I don't use it on my MBP, either.

[belunos]

For me, the mac notebooks are all about OS X and the killer trackpads. But to be honest, I'm not married to either. I was thinking about getting rid of my d620 for a macbook, and I still may, but I'm not nearly as convinced as I was. I like the design, and I don't mind a shiny display, but the price premium is more than I expected for what we're getting.

Actually, I think a better compromise would be those nicely priced 15" MBPs over in the refurb store ;)

[MacsBestFriend]

I like the fact that the WhiteBook is still an option. I believe a BlackBook Aluminum will come back sooner or later. I cant believe Apple still has a MBP with nVidia 8600 graphics! Who will seriously buy that? On the Apple website they say the 2.0 Ghz has backlit but others say it doesn't. I don't know what to believe. Also, how could Apple have gone BACKWARDS on speed? That makes no sense! I also expected Centrino 2.

All in all, I love the new MacBook even with its many flaws!:D

I just hate the price!

But I'm still buying one by November!:p

[Jpoon]

bout as much to buy seperatly as it is for apple to just do it for you.

But DDR3 is an impovement (apparantly)
true.

It's a marginal upgrade, and not worth the price hike. (The upgrade from DDR2 to DDR3).

The supposed benefits of upgrading to DDR3 are:

1.) It's faster
2.) Uses less power

However, in real world performance, you'll probably see maybe 15 more minutes of battery life from DDR3 1066...
And you won't notice the difference in speed.

It's pretty much the same reason PC builders are still using DDR2 in comparison with DDR3. The marginal upgrade isn't really worth it. Probably won't be worth it until fourth quarter of next year, when the prices drop on DDR3.

Sure, Apple is attempting to build a premium product here. But the jump to DDR3 really wasn't that big of a deal. Just something to throw in there to make people believe they're getting some great value for their money.

These laptops are luxury.

Winner on the design and materials used.

Lose on the lack of ports and price of components.

You're paying for the engineering of the case.

[oc2pus]

Well, it possibly is a winner...

I have no idea (but perhaps Steve has already) if SnowLeopard might take much more advantage of the hardwae presented tonight than Leopard can right now?

He said, people demanded this upgrade, so they give in to this demand.
I know there is christmas-time and they have to make profits during Q4 2008, but isn't it possible that Apple initially might have wanted to publish the new notebooks in combination with OS X 10.6, because there is a much higher synergy?

Just a thought though...

BTW: Steve didn't make the happiest impression tonight, did he? He didn't seem to be particularly fond of this event.

[Jpoon]

Well, it possibly is a winner...

I have no idea (but perhaps Steve has already) if SnowLeopard might take much more advantage of the hardwae presented tonight than Leopard can right now?

He said, people demanded this upgrade, so they give in to this demand.
I know there is christmas-time and they have to make profits during Q4 2008, but isn't it possible that Apple initially might have wanted to publish the new notebooks in combination with OS X 10.6, because there is a much higher synergy?

Just a thought though...

BTW: Steve didn't make the happiest impression tonight, did he? He didn't seem to be particularly fond of this event.

In my opinion, he wasn't as excited as usual.

[mlemonds]

In my opinion, he wasn't as excited as usual.

he actually seemed kinda cranky, especially when he was passing around the MBP frames.

[mosx]

These laptops are luxury.

Winner on the design and materials used.

Lose on the lack of ports and price of components.

You're paying for the engineering of the case.

Everyone always tries to say that Macs of any kind are luxury or premium items.

But I do not see that.

A "premium" or "luxury" product typically has very high end specifications and features. No Mac has any of these. All in the MacBook and MBP line are spec'ed worse than equivalently priced PCs. $1299 on a MacBook gets you an ugly aluminum case (that will most likely be hotter than the plastic case) with an HP display tacked on (yes the new Cinema Displays and notebook displays look EXACTLY like HP's LCD displays from over a year ago), a 2GHz Core 2 Duo, integrated graphics that still perform worse than almost 2 year old GeForce 8400M GS, and it lacks many things that are considered standard on other PCs, such as HDMI, memory card readers, etc. That same amount at HP is going to get you a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 3GB of RAM, a 512MB GeForce 9600M GT powering a 15.4" 1680x1050 display with similar real world battery life with many standard features like eSATA, HDMI, memory card readers, full size ExpressCard.

Now, which one is the higher end product? The MacBook with fewer features than a $600 Compaq from Walmart or the HP with more power than the MacBook Pro?

Case closed.

I don't care about the engineering of the case. I do NOT want an aluminum case that is going to get so ridiculously hot that I still cannot use it on my lap. I can pick up my current HP after hours of gaming and set it on and use it on my lap without getting warm. My MacBook? 20 minutes of browsing and its too uncomfortable to use. My friends MacBook Pro (Santa Rosa refresh) is even worse than my MacBook.

Apple products are NOT premium products.

Apple products are basically like Bose. They're not nearly as good as those in the same price range, should cost around half as much as they do, and people only think they're good because of the brand name.

Right now Apple only makes 2 good products. The iPod touch and the iPod classic. I would have said the iPhone too, but they don't make the original any more.

[Bubbasteve]

I'm sure I can't speak for everybody but I have a Macbook and I haven't used the Firewire port on it -- it's not a deal breaker for me

I love the design -- I've been spoiled with my iMacs glass screen and it's nothing short of amazing so I'm sure it's appeal will carry over to the notebooks.

I would definitely purchase one if my Macbook wasn't less than a year old

[Jpoon]

To be honest, I wasn't comparing Apple Laptops to PC equivalents. But Apple does definitely consider themselves as a luxury, or else their laptops wouldn't be priced so highly for the components used.

They're also taking the consideration that OS X is a "Superior" operating system than Vista, and that you're getting a premium end user experience after having bought a freaking expensive laptop in comparison to the PC equivalent.

I'm not advocating either side... but that's life. I don't think Apple will ever be economically priced compared to PC equivalents.

[EmptyCalm]

It's nice, sure, but i'm a little underwhelmed.

The upgraded graphics is nice but i don't game on my macbook (i have a 2.4ghz blackbook) and it still doesn't match my desktop so any heavy lifting is better suited for that anyway.

Backlit keyboard -- looks cool but i don't look at my keys when i type so ultimatley it isn't worth anything to me

Multi touch pad -- nice touch, but, from my experience with the air, i don't really use gestures, being able to scroll with 2 fingers and click with 2 fingers is all i need in my touch pad

Aluminum body -- pretty..that's about it

LED screen -- brightness isn't an issue with my macbook so that isn't an issue, if it improves battery life that is nice (not sure what kind of improvement is expected?)

The new macbook is very nice, it will definitely bring in some new customers but there really isn't much besides a pretty case to make current macbook owners want to switch (except for those who just want the latest and greatest and that is really just an ego thing..)

I feel the same way.

[mlemonds]

Everyone always tries to say that Macs of any kind are luxury or premium items.
...

i think that the only thing that really sets the apple products apart from their competition is how they work together in their environment.

Some people like the products and some people do not. I think that the people that use multiple apple products see more value in this environment. i have a macbook and an iphone and i think that their value is much more when you use them together. (even better when mobileme cooperates)

Apples prices are high. If HP or dell could sell at this price, they would. HPs and dells do not sell cheap to be nice to customers, they just do it to stay alive, people do not see a value in the name. If consumers can see a value in an apple product worth paying more money for, then apple would be stupid not to charge more money for it.

[NT1440]

It's a marginal upgrade, and not worth the price hike. (The upgrade from DDR2 to DDR3).

The supposed benefits of upgrading to DDR3 are:

1.) It's faster
2.) Uses less power

However, in real world performance, you'll probably see maybe 15 more minutes of battery life from DDR3 1066...
And you won't notice the difference in speed.

It's pretty much the same reason PC builders are still using DDR2 in comparison with DDR3. The marginal upgrade isn't really worth it. Probably won't be worth it until fourth quarter of next year, when the prices drop on DDR3.

Sure, Apple is attempting to build a premium product here. But the jump to DDR3 really wasn't that big of a deal. Just something to throw in there to make people believe they're getting some great value for their money.

These laptops are luxury.

Winner on the design and materials used.

Lose on the lack of ports and price of components.

You're paying for the engineering of the case.

You realize DDR3 will become the new standard right?

Its called future proofing. I wouldnt be suprised to see if Snow Leopard does something nifty with it either.

[ridesdeepsnow]

I nearly fell off my chair at work while watching the Gizmodo coverage feed. $1300 for backlit keyboard, glass screen with LED, and new graphics? When did macbooks become sweeping gaming notebooks?

I think this price decision is going to haunt Apple badly, where there will be a price drop close to Xmas and leave a large number of early buyers(like the original iPhone pissed for paying the higher price.

Also Apple knows a big % of their customers are students, and price isn't too important when they usually purchase the Macbooks through their college loan program.
I could understand fully if they moved the manufacturing to the USA, then I would be proud to shell out the extra bucks but for a shiny look, and graphics card I can't spend money for those reasons.
I am quite mad since I have been waiting for 7 months to buy a macbook, since it was leaked in April model revamp was coming.
Steve how could you do this to us? :( :mad:

[Dont Hurt Me]

Praise Apple for kicking out integrated crapographics from Intel, what an achilles heal to put something thats so dreadful in a modern computer. Should have never used them in the first place.

Now if Mini will just get this GPU.

[mosx]

They're also taking the consideration that OS X is a "Superior" operating system than Vista, and that you're getting a premium end user experience after having bought a freaking expensive laptop in comparison to the PC equivalent.

Well, Leopard isn't superior to Vista at all. Leopard certainly isn't "the worlds most advanced OS" either, considering it can't even hardware accelerate H.264 video. I've had OS X crash on me more than Windows ever has. My first OS X hard lock was the first time I had an OS lock up like that on me in more than a decade.

i think that the only thing that really sets the apple products apart from their competition is how they work together in their environment.

Some people like the products and some people do not. I think that the people that use multiple apple products see more value in this environment. i have a macbook and an iphone and i think that their value is much more when you use them together. (even better when mobileme cooperates)

Apples prices are high. If HP or dell could sell at this price, they would. HPs and dells do not sell cheap to be nice to customers, they just do it to stay alive, people do not see a value in the name. If consumers can see a value in an apple product worth paying more money for, then apple would be stupid not to charge more money for it.

People don't see value in HP and Dell's name? Is that why those two companies alone make up more than half of all computer sales worldwide? People don't see value in Apple's computers and thats why they still don't sell very well. Apple brags about selling 2 million units in the same time period HP sells 25 million.

I have an iPhone and iPods. They work every bit as well on Windows with iTunes as they do in OS X.

Praise Apple for kicking out integrated crapographics from Intel, what an achilles heal to put something thats so dreadful in a modern computer. Should have never used them in the first place.

Now if Mini will just get this GPU.

Well, the MacBook is still using integrated graphics. It's about the same as the GeForce 9100. So that means its still significantly slower than last generations dedicated GeForce 8400M GS and this generations AMD 3200 IGP.

[milani]

All I can say is I'm glad I waited.

[AndyBob09]

I'm a "nay" myself. It just doesn't hit the mark. Here's to hoping that Apple Stores just have old stock kept ...

[mlemonds]

People don't see value in HP and Dell's name? Is that why those two companies alone make up more than half of all computer sales worldwide? People don't see value in Apple's computers and thats why they still don't sell very well. Apple brags about selling 2 million units in the same time period HP sells 25 million.
IGP.

i spoke poorly. people see a value in the names of both of those companies, but not in the same way as most people view apple. those companies are selling massive amounts of units, not an easy task, but i do not think they could sell as many units if they were all priced the way that apple's lineup is. most people i know wouldnt pay $2000 for a dell, but are holstering a MBP in their bookbag

Neither dell nor hp are bad companies, i just do not expect as much quality out of their computers as i would out of an apple machine

[mosx]

i spoke poorly. people see a value in the names of both of those companies, but not in the same way as most people view apple. those companies are selling massive amounts of units, not an easy task, but i do not think they could sell as many units if they were all priced the way that apple's lineup is. most people i know wouldnt pay $2000 for a dell, but are holstering a MBP in their bookbag

Neither dell nor hp are bad companies, i just do not expect as much quality out of their computers as i would out of an apple machine

Well, based on my experience with both of my MacBooks and the MacBook Pros I have used, as well as all 3 HP notebooks I have owned, I do expect much better quality out of HP for significantly lower price.

Both of my MacBooks have had build quality issues. Cracking and discoloring due to heat, case separation, etc. My HP has none of that. My HP is built out of stronger plastic than my MacBook. I don't have to worry about my system getting ridiculously hot like Macs do, I don't have to worry about the case warping and bending due to heat like aluminum Macs do. I don't have to worry about dents or anything like that.

My HP, which cost several hundred less than my MacBook, is completely fully featured with true dedicated graphics, HDMI, memory card readers, and all kinds of neat things. I expect a lot more out of HP and Dell than I do Apple.

After my experiences with Apple, all I expect out of them is a system that costs about twice as much as it should and has half as many features it should even for that price point.

[drakeshipway]

yes yes yes yes yes totally yes !!!!!

but i think i will go for the 15" pro :)

[robby818]

One of the most popular/loved portables is the old 12" powerbook which provided a nice compact size & decent power. This new macbook pretty much fills the void of that old machine. I like that is has so many of the features of the $2000-2500 Macbook Pro just in a smaller form factor. I think it is going to be very popular.

[Yaboze]

Well, I have a late 2007 MB, with Leopard and it's not a Penryn one. It's 2.2GHZ.

I think these new ones are great, but I'm not a freak that needs Firewire, which seems to be the biggest complaint. I also don't mind the glossy screen, as my MB has it now.

I think the MB got a substantial boost here and it brings it much closer to the MBP. It's basically the same piece of hardware now, the only difference, aside from screen size, is the dedicated GPU in the MBP. The new Nvidia GPU in the MB (and MBP) might be enough for people not to get the MBP.

The MB got these features which only the Pro had:

Aluminum shell (finally)
LED screen (well, mine doesn't have LED)
Backlit keyboard
Better GPU
Better trackpad with multitouch

Instead of the MBP looking all cool in Aluminum and quite a bit different than the MB, which was smaller and all plastic, they look more like true product line, aesthetically, like other manufacturers are doing, like Dell or HP.

I like the black edged screen and keyboard, sure, it looks more like a Windows laptop, but I don't know of any other laptop as slick and refined as these. Also, with all these MB's cracking and chipping where the lid closes, the aluminum is a welcome change. I'm sure Apple is tired of replacing that top shell. As for Firewire, it was only 400 and USB 2.0 is just as fast or faster, the only problem will be if someone has Firewire only devices. Also, the glass touchpad will help with the grease spot these laptops seem to get.

I'm glad the MB and MBP are closer in style and it's just a GPU and bigger screen separating the two. Now they just need to update the 17", my guess is they didn't have the parts in time. It's quite possible they won't do it at all.

I love em and I'd get one in a heartbeat, the 2.4GHZ one for sure. Maybe next yet. The only thing wrong with my MB now is the X3100. :\

[pufftissue]

The $1,600 model will become the all-time best-seller. It has *everything* I want. :cool:

you don't want a card reader for your digital camera?

[BLACK MAC]

you don't want a card reader for your digital camera?

that's why we have usb cables.

[mmark]

the 1600 price for the tech specs is alittle high for me, but thats just imo.
also i can do without the all-gloss screen -- my macbook gets enough dirt on its screen as it is!

[hogfaninga]

It's nice, sure, but i'm a little underwhelmed.

The upgraded graphics is nice but i don't game on my macbook (i have a 2.4ghz blackbook) and it still doesn't match my desktop so any heavy lifting is better suited for that anyway.

Backlit keyboard -- looks cool but i don't look at my keys when i type so ultimatley it isn't worth anything to me

Multi touch pad -- nice touch, but, from my experience with the air, i don't really use gestures, being able to scroll with 2 fingers and click with 2 fingers is all i need in my touch pad

Aluminum body -- pretty..that's about it

LED screen -- brightness isn't an issue with my macbook so that isn't an issue, if it improves battery life that is nice (not sure what kind of improvement is expected?)

The new macbook is very nice, it will definitely bring in some new customers but there really isn't much besides a pretty case to make current macbook owners want to switch (except for those who just want the latest and greatest and that is really just an ego thing..)

Good post. That is exactly how I feel.

[stubeeef]

Very underwhelmed......again.

Still waiting for an ultra portable under 10" screen convertible to a tablet like a Fuji. Guess I'm gonna get very old or past dead before it ever makes it to the people.:o

i think i will spend $399 on a netbook

[orangeillini14]

Apple definitely hit the nail on the head with this new MacBook line, but I'd have to say that the MBP went nowhere in this update. :/

[tofudc5]

hmm maybe for the guys in USA the price point and the spec of the macbook seems ok, but for people in Australia the new range is very very "unattractive"

what i don't quite understand is all that hardware upgrade to make it faster and look better, but at the end of the day it's got a 13" screen for god sake! gaming on a 13" screen...?!? makes me just want to point and laugh

[hogfaninga]

hmm maybe for the guys in USA the price point and the spec of the macbook seems ok, but for people in Australia the new range is very very "unattractive"

what i don't quite understand is all that hardware upgrade to make it faster and look better, but at the end of the day it's got a 13" screen for god sake! gaming on a 13" screen...?!? makes me just want to point and laugh

Even here in the States it was a disappointed. Hitting the nail on the head? Nope.

[ryanwarsaw]

In my opinion, he wasn't as excited as usual.

Did anybody ever applaud either? I didn't hear much applause.

[donga]

yes, the new macbook is a winner, with reservation.

the firewire kills my excitement for it

[SpEnCeR132]

kinda bummed that the 2.0Ghz one isnt backlit.
ohh welll. ill just get the backlit keyobard and swap em

[dougnewman]

I have to say nay, only because of FireWire.

Otherwise, the new MacBooks appear to be an improvement over the old ones in every way.

[Allusion]

From an outsider's perspective (aka a former mac owner):

I was looking forward to today's event, but unfortunately find myself very disappointed.

While my opinions may be biased and ignorant, here goes.

I don't like the idea of the glass touchpad and no button. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something aboud that just seems gimmicky and flawed from the get go.

The design of it is ugly. The black border around the screen and the black keyboard just seem to clash with the silver design.

Lack of Firewire = huge downer.

Price point is the biggest downer for me. I ordered an EEE PC awhile back, and it'll be arriving tomorrow. Today's MacBook release was going to be the determination if I keep the EEE, or immediately relist it on ebay without opening. In a way I kind of wanted the MacBook to work out, I don't know why...but in any case, unless God him/herself comes down from heaven tonight and says BUY A MACBOOK STUPID, I'm probably keeping the EEE.

Maybe I'll look into a secondhand Macbook on ebay.

It's horrible in my mind though when my biggest gripe with buying a used one on ebay is the lack of warranty on them...maybe a testament to my unlucky experiences with Macs before, but still.

[Abstract]

No FireWire == another garbage netbook like Macbook Air :mad:

And pretty much every other laptop out in the market, which are, apparently, all netbooks. I wish it had FW as well, but I won't really miss FW on a MB too much.


I'll take a solid HP with hardware thats spec'ed right for the money over any of these new MBs and MBPs any day.


I guess this is your last post?


This new MB is like the old one, but made of metal, and it has "real" graphics processing....the same one used on many non-integrated (i.e. separate) video cards. These are what people were asking for (and I'm not going by what SJ said during the keynote), as you could tell by many of the posts at MR over the years. No need to upgrade to an MBP just for light gaming.

And yet here we are with a new machine that ticks all the boxes, and is essentially a small form factor MBP, but without FW and ExpressCard34. That's pretty good.

[Chappers]

First thought was nice

[Jethryn Freyman]

Excellent upgrade for the Macbook, apart from the lack of Firewire and the $200 price rise here in Australia.

[Chappers]

I'm not interested in firewire but I think its a mistake to leave it out - I really do. The machines themselves look good - no surprise there. If I was buying - then I'd wait and see how they performed. I guess silver & black is the new white (generally).

I'm neutral at the moment.

[glenzade]

As I said before it was a huge disappointment for me, People are saying oh its like a MBP, well in my country it is the same price as the old macbookpro! And the old mbp looks better than the new line and is faster for the same price. I was set going to the apple store today to buy one but now im going to ask about the old stock. It just doesnt do it for me I think the people who are saying oh im gettin one they are in some sorta trance, take a step back and lot at it xD


Hopefully they redeem themselves next year

[ezekielrage_99]

I saw the Macbooks in the Sydney Apple store tonight, all I can say is that I really like the new cases the images don't do them justice. However the screen is by far too reflective (more so than the good old Macbook displays)....

So although I am very tempted in buying a new Macbook the screen is a serious turn off for me and it looks like I'm getting a refurbished 15" Macbook Pro instead.

[Delta608]

I waited am a bit disappointed lack of FW....Im going to buy a black notebook from Amazon today.....:o

[leekohler]

Nay- too many thing wrong with it to list again.

[Tensakun]

I wish it had FW as well, but I won't really miss FW on a MB too much.

Feel the same way. To be honest, since my work sched is so insane, I haven't used my video camera in years. (Guess I could import digitally taped video into my trusty PB, move to my MB for editing...) Also, my two FW-only external HDs are pretty puny by todays standards...good excuse to buy new ones!

Realize many people feel strongly about FW, but it seems to be a fading standard, life goes on. (Now ready to get trashed!:p)

One little-mentioned feature I did really like (went to Osaka's AppleStore tonight) is how the trackpad/button can be programed like a 'control-click' or Windows 'right-click' at either the right or left bottom corner. I set to left--one subtle little press with the thumb and up comes a contextual menu--cool! ;)

[hogfaninga]

I saw the Macbooks in the Sydney Apple store tonight, all I can say is that I really like the new cases the images don't do them justice. However the screen is by far too reflective (more so than the good old Macbook displays)....

So although I am very tempted in buying a new Macbook the screen is a serious turn off for me and it looks like I'm getting a refurbished 15" Macbook Pro instead.

I just visited one of our Apple Stores for a few minutes just now before I headed to work. I agree with your opinion. The cases are sturdy and look pretty good. I'm not the biggest aluminum fan, but these are pretty nice. As I said before, I didn't think I would like the two-tone of the keyboard and the black around the screen. I still don't care for it. The screen was like you said, way to reflective and that will cause a problem for some. The graphics are better, but that was expected.

Overall I was so-so impressed, but not enough to sell or give away (to my brother) my black Macbook. I was thinking about doing it sense I have plenty of money in the bank to cover the price difference. It isn't worth it to me. Hopefully Apple will make some changes in the near future.

BTW I do use the FW port on my Macbook for a few things and that is a serious drawback IMO. What was Apple thinking?

Congrats to those getting this new lineup of Macbooks. I'm sure they will be good, but like the 2G iPod touch, it wasn't worth it for me to upgrade at this time.

[dougnewman]

However the screen is by far too reflective (more so than the good old Macbook displays)....More reflective? Great! :rolleyes:

[pointandclick]

Maybe not for you, but for me...
LED screen (its quite likely that the screen is higher quality than the current MB screen, just like the Air has a better quality screen)
Backlit keyboard
Better graphics card

I want those things, and it has nothing to do with ego.



Express Card slot Who actually uses these?
More ports Firewire... A non issue for a consumer device, which is why it's on the pro
Bigger battery (50w vs 45w)To compensate for the higher power requirements of the larger screen and discrete graphics. Hardly a selling point considering it doesn't deliver longer use.

I love my MBP and OS X, but IMO this is clearly a case of "It's shinier than the last one and Steve says it's better so I'm going to buy it."
If the aluminum enclosure is costing them an extra $200 bucks, I wish they would've stuck with the plastic.

[jade]

As a new MB owner. Here are some thoughts (upgrading from an ibook G4 and use a Dell 640m at work)

1. The trackpad: pretty cool. Totally intuitive, it works just like t ibook one, without a seam for the button. I LOVE that i can easily right click. Takes a few to get used to, but not longer than a few minutes. Still getting used to the additional key strokes. Slightly weirded out by not having to scroll in the scroll zone. That is the biggest touchpad transition for me. Everything else is business as usual.
2. Screen: shiny and bright, but i didn't find it ridiculously glossy compared with other glossy screens
3. The case: AMAZING. Wow it feels totaly solid and well put together. Not creaky.
4. The heat: haven't done anything crazy, but the metal seems to stay extra cool. Possibly due to the thickness. Anway it was pleasantly cool.
5. Wireless: seems good
6. Form factor: very much like a 12in PB. But well it makes even that cute laptop seem like a clunker.
7. Keyboard: different but easy to get used to. Almost typing like a pro after 2 hours use.

My verdict: great notebook if you are updating from something older like g4 status or a cheaper PC laptop. Much better build quality. If you have a macbook of recent vintage? Wait till rev b. It is much cooler and sleeker but i don't believe in trashing a perfectly serviceable notebook just for something new and shiny. But a good solid (in all senses of the word)notebook. Hope to get 4 years out of it like my ibook!

[themick171]

I agree. I have black macbook, and I have to say the new ones are not as cool as my mac, plus I have firewire. http://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Roba]

It is an improvement in terms of specs.
I would like to see these things implemented next time before i would buy one.

I would ideally like to see it lose a bit more weight i also think that Apple should probably do away with the MBA to allow for this.

Also i would like to see dual graphics to allow for max battery using both the intel chip and dedicated graphics.

I am unsure about the battery life it seems to have taken a little bit of a hit.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2332519,00.asp

Also i would like Apple to add in at least an express card so that you can use mobile broadband if you want. The usb dongles just look plain ugly. I would love it if Apple added in WWAN and i do think that is the way to go but i cannot see that happening.
Maybe they should have just sold this as a pro to allow for the things like an express card slot.

The screen is a bit to glossy for me but i guess i could live with that.

This notebook is close to being what i wanted and Apple is going in the right direction.