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MacRumors
Jan 29, 2004, 11:44 AM
Apple has seeded a new version of Mac OS X to developers. Seed 7F24 has been posted with major changes to "Graphics, OpenGL games, USB devices, printing, browsing networks, Cocoa applications".

Of most interest is the inclusion of Safari 1.2 (current released version is 1.1.1).

The newest version of Safari includes a number of significant improvements:

- Ability to "tab" to form elements (buttons, checkboxes, submit buttons)
- The option (on/off) to "tab" to hyperlinks
- Improved download manager with resume
- View dimensions of an image
- Custom cursor support
- Option to open links from applications "in a new tab in the current window"
- Improved performance

Pseudonym
Jan 29, 2004, 11:46 AM
This sounds good, especially the improved download manager. Now I am on DSL it is less than an issue, but I had to but Spped Download pretty soon after I got my Mac as I was only on dial up at the time. Really annoying as at the time there was no resume available on Software Update and Apple didn't put updates on Magazine CDs.

Keith Purfield
Jan 29, 2004, 11:46 AM
I hope that Safari 1.2 fixes its memory issues. It's currently using 114MB of my RAM, and all I have is this reply window and the Rumors forum open in a tabbed window.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2004, 11:50 AM
Sounds promising. Now if Safari can open links like what I found here on that SOB (can I say that?) that abused his parents and his Xmas G5?

Peej
Jan 29, 2004, 11:52 AM
The tabbing feature upgrades will be great, it's my most-used feature in Safari now.

FlamDrag
Jan 29, 2004, 11:54 AM
It's good to hear of improvements that are tangible to the average user.

I'm sure that most other updates are good, but they often are in semi-technobabble (improves the subroutine function of KersFeff and other enhancements) with nothing "visible."

Image dimensions will be a welcome addition to safari as well as "resume" in the DL manager. Heck, if I can just tab to a drop down box I'd be pretty happy.

sabbath999
Jan 29, 2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Chip NoVaMac
Sounds promising. Now if Safari can open links like what I found here on that SOB (can I say that?) that abused his parents and his Xmas G5?

what on earth are you talking about ? :)

sparkleytone
Jan 29, 2004, 11:54 AM
Finally a Safari update that is coming to the peanut gallery (us). The tabbing to all elements is important. I hope 'Improved Performance' includes the DOGSLOW https issues.

Counterfit
Jan 29, 2004, 11:55 AM
Chip: yeah you can say SOB, but I don't see anything to cry about :p

jvaska
Jan 29, 2004, 11:55 AM
how long does it generallly take a "seed" before it released to the public?

v

Macmaniac
Jan 29, 2004, 11:55 AM
YAY finally, I was worried about Safari!!

Stike
Jan 29, 2004, 11:56 AM
"Graphics, OpenGL games, USB devices, printing, browsing networks, Cocoa applications".
Very good. I have some terrible printing issues with my old Epson 740i (randomly stops while printing, making the page unusable) and I wasn´t able to browse Windows/SMB Networks up to now as it was advertized for Panther. Not even another Mac appeared in the "Network" shortcut... I hope this will be fixed now.

jaredbbauer
Jan 29, 2004, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Chip NoVaMac
Sounds promising. Now if Safari can open links like what I found here on that SOB (can I say that?) that abused his parents and his Xmas G5?

DUDE are you OK? What in the world are you talking about?

Gymnut
Jan 29, 2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by sabbath999
what on earth are you talking about ? :)

He means that guy that posted pics of his Dual G5 that he received from his parents for Christmas that he gutted to put PC parts in.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57719

bousozoku
Jan 29, 2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by sabbath999
what on earth are you talking about ? :)

The dude who gutted the G5 and installed an Athlon motherboard, I think, because he wanted a Dell.

Glad to see Apple is progressing. Maybe by the end of the year, everything will work. ;)

jaredbbauer
Jan 29, 2004, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Gymnut
He means that guy that posted pics of his Dual G5 that he received from his parents for Christmas that he gutted to put PC parts in.

Do you have pics? I would like to see that...

nevermind i see them now thanks for the link

mkjellman
Jan 29, 2004, 12:01 PM
just checked the seed note...there are quite a few problems. This will be the first seed since the Panther seeds came out that I am going to skip. I am not going to be specific so i don't violate the ADC rules but it seems to go backwards....many of the problems were in the first builds of Panther if i remember correctly.

sethypoo
Jan 29, 2004, 12:02 PM
Personal cursors, sounds like fun!

So how soon untill we might get it?

Photorun
Jan 29, 2004, 12:02 PM
I'd love a feature on MacRumors where if someone votes a story as negative they'd need to explain WHY they voted negative. Excepting peecee trolls I can't see why someone voted negative on this story.

beg_ne
Jan 29, 2004, 12:02 PM
Awesome! Lots of great stuff coming for Safari.

Nice to see 10.3.3 coming along also, hopefully it will clear up the last of the minor annoyances currently in Panther. Then we can start looking forward to 10.3.5 which sounds like it will start giving us some more goodies and not so much just fixes.

daveL
Jan 29, 2004, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by jaredbbauer
DUDE are you OK? What in the world are you talking about?
He's talking about a Hardware thread posted a couple days ago about some m oron kid that gutted a brand new G5 so he could put an AMD MB in it. His parents bought the G5 for him.

TimDaddy
Jan 29, 2004, 12:04 PM
2 issues for me that I hope are fixed.

1. Back button doesn't always work. Many times I'll hit back, and it will just reload the current page.

2. Safari has unexpectedly quit. This happens WAY too much whem I am on eBay or Fidelity's websites.

We'll see.

mkjellman
Jan 29, 2004, 12:08 PM
Also of note...the updates are 75.5 MB in total. This is the biggest update I can ever remember from Apple except for the 1.2.5 cumulative update that was like 100 MB..

mrwheet
Jan 29, 2004, 12:09 PM
I'm a little curious as to whether these "major" changes have anything to do with the new IBM XL compilers... That could make for some exciting speed bumps. Maybe yes, maybe no.

pascalpp
Jan 29, 2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by beg_ne
Then we can start looking forward to 10.3.5 which sounds like it will start giving us some more goodies and not so much just fixes.

what did you hear about 10.3.5 and where did you hear it from?

-p

PDubNYC
Jan 29, 2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Stike
I wasn´t able to browse Windows/SMB Networks up to now as it was advertized for Panther. Not even another Mac appeared in the "Network" shortcut... I hope this will be fixed now.


I'd have to believe that there is something wrong with your setup as I use this functionality every day. Might want to check your Directory Access to make sure you are using Appletalk and SMB. But I've had great luck with these features.

jettredmont
Jan 29, 2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Stike
Very good. I have some terrible printing issues with my old Epson 740i (randomly stops while printing, making the page unusable) and I wasn´t able to browse Windows/SMB Networks up to now as it was advertized for Panther. Not even another Mac appeared in the "Network" shortcut... I hope this will be fixed now.

I'm hoping the update fixes my SMB issues as well. My Mac has a VPN setup for work, and ever since I set that up (ie, not just when the VPN is connected; 100% of the time since I first connected a month or so ago) SMB browsing has become incredibly slow to update, and my Windows machines can't print to the printer connected to my Mac ... Which is a shame, to say the least. SMB never had any problems until I threw the VPN in there (and it has no problems at work where VPN isn't an issue either ... in fact, it works better than the Windows XP and 2000 boxes!)

Then again, each of the updates since Panther has said they address SMB issues, so there's a pretty good chance the SMB/VPN conflicts aren't addressed this time either :( ...

Spades
Jan 29, 2004, 12:13 PM
I'm looking forward to the improvements to the download manager. The image dimensions thing will be a nice touch. I've never used tabbing in browsers that support it, so the fact that Safari doesn't have it is news to me. A nice addition anyways. The only thing that confuses me is this:

Option to open links from applications "in a new tab in the current window"

I thought Safari already had that. I mean...I already use this feature every day. Is my imagination just a little too overactive? :confused:

Does anybody have any specifics on the changes in 10.3.3? Any sexy new features to look forward to? :)

gopher
Jan 29, 2004, 12:15 PM
No mention of fixing the firewire drivers to be what they were like before 10.3 was released? I find that extremely disappointing.

http://www.macmaps.com/firewirebug.html

Apple needs to admit that it overdid their specification requirements for Firewire under Panther, and is going to be more
flexible on drives that haven't updated. I can name several Firewire 400 drive manufacturers who haven't made version 3.8 of the firmware available for their drives, and probably never will:

Western Digital
LaCie - I thought had done so, only to be corrected later on that they had not.
Maxtor
ADS
AIC Micro
Acomdata

If you know of an Oxford 911 chip drive maker that doesn't have a 3.8 version of the firmware, please submit feedback to their site, that MacAlly has made it available for their drives, and you think others should as well.

dwsolberg
Jan 29, 2004, 12:17 PM
I'm most excited about the network browsing. Hopefully, they change it back to the way it was in 10.2.x.

(In 10.3.x you need to browse through the Finder to load a server. Then you CAN'T disconnect easily except by shutting off the computer. That's bad for us 'book users. The only current way around this is knowing the direct IP address of the server.)

mkjellman
Jan 29, 2004, 12:19 PM
i think he was just speculating about 10.3.5...i don't think even the developers at Apple know what they are going to do in 10.3.5...they probably just want to fix the bugs first before they even think of adding anything new

virividox
Jan 29, 2004, 12:20 PM
if 10.3.3 comes by march then we are sure to see a new OS come december, thats if they continue at this rate :D

jettredmont
Jan 29, 2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Spades
The only thing that confuses me is this:

Option to open links from applications "in a new tab in the current window"

I thought Safari already had that. I mean...I already use this feature every day. Is my imagination just a little too overactive? :confused:


You have always been able to middle-click on a link to have it open in a new tab (or right-click, select open in a new tab, or option-click I think).

However, is another application, like, say, Mail, tells Safari to open a link (ie, you click on a link in Mail), it always opens in a new window, never in a tab off the current window.

The latest build apparently allows the user to set a preference so that all requests from other apps go into a new tab on the current window instead.

IMHO, this still isn't the best solution, but it'll have to do. Personally, I'd like to see a right-click option on things like Mail which allow me to choose which window of Safari I should add a new tab to, or to create a new window with this link ... For now, though, dragging the link to a Safari window will do (although it would be nice to be able to drag it to the tab bar and have Safari create a new tab like Firebird does ...)

macrumors12345
Jan 29, 2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
Seed 7F24 has been posted with major changes to "....browsing networks....".



Hopefully this will finally fix Panther's problems browsing Windows (SMB) networks. Just encountered those yesterday...it's pretty annoying. Disabling Appletalk seems to fix the problem for me though (knock on wood).

PDubNYC
Jan 29, 2004, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
You have always been able to middle-click on a link to have it open in a new tab (or right-click, select open in a new tab, or option-click I think).


how about just command+click? I'm not a fan of having to use menus for simple things. Watch in the status bar as you threaten a link with various key+click actions and it tells you waht will happen.

DGFan
Jan 29, 2004, 12:28 PM
I hope the form fields you can tab to include drop-lists (select boxes with size = 1). I hate filling in an address on Safari. On most other browsers I can type my name, hit tab, type my address, hit tab, type my city, hit tab, hit M, scroll a few times to find MI, hit tab, type my zip. That doesn't work on Safari because the state list doesn't take the focus with tab. And that's like so last century!!!

chickengrease16
Jan 29, 2004, 12:28 PM
i am like many users out there that have appreciated the mac and its culture but had to be a PC user for financial reasons until i could afford a mac. and one of the biggest upsets of switching to mac was the lack of support for many keys THAT COME ON THE KEYBOARD! like tab (you cant tab to elements in safari or many other programs with aqua interface), home/end (in ichat especially it bothers me that you cant home/end), and del (flaky in terminal). but this is great news, although they should have had tab-to-elements from the beginning.

gwuMACaddict
Jan 29, 2004, 12:30 PM
hooray for updates... i was gettin a little worried about safari... i wish they would just include all the plug in things so i could play all those online games when i'm trying to waste time ;)

Stella
Jan 29, 2004, 12:30 PM
<CYNICAL>
I wonder how much Apple is going to charge for Safari 1.2?
</CYNICAL>

Hope WebFrame supports 'pretty' format for XML display

pascalpp
Jan 29, 2004, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
However, is another application, like, say, Mail, tells Safari to open a link (ie, you click on a link in Mail), it always opens in a new window, never in a tab off the current window.


you can in fact do this now, but the preferences don't make it very clear.

1. enable tabbed browsing in safari prefs

2. at the bottom of the general pane in safari prefs, set it to open links from other applications in the current window.

for me, with those settings, it creates a new tab in the current window whenever i click a link in mail or netnewswire or what have you...

dashiel
Jan 29, 2004, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by mrwheet
I'm a little curious as to whether these "major" changes have anything to do with the new IBM XL compilers... That could make for some exciting speed bumps. Maybe yes, maybe no.

i wouldn't think so. i could be wrong, but there are two issues here that lead me to believe this won't happen. first OS X updates (major not minor) have the very marketable fact that they increase in performance. if ibm's new compilers even deliver half of what has been claimed, OS 10.4 could be an order of magnitude faster than 10.3. apple couldn't pass up on the marketing spin they'd get from that. secondly, it seems rather precarious to update your OS with a new compiler so soon after their official release.

coolsoldier
Jan 29, 2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
However, is another application, like, say, Mail, tells Safari to open a link (ie, you click on a link in Mail), it always opens in a new window, never in a tab off the current window.

OK, that's weird, because in Safari 1.1.1, when I set it to open links from other applications "in the current window", they always come up in a new tab (Just verified this with Mail links). I always thought that was the default behavior...

[edit: It seems that this is a leftover setting from when I had SAFT installed under 10.2]

j33pd0g
Jan 29, 2004, 12:37 PM
Networking! :) Maybe I won't get panics while trying to use our home network. I can connect... but shortly after... bamn... KP!

arrowoods
Jan 29, 2004, 12:41 PM
I use to love Safari because it was much faster than explorer and just generally cooler. Then I found Mozilla Firebird and it blows Safari out of the water as far as speed. Much better Java support especially on Yahoo games. and it kills Safari on Banking sites for speed. My Safari just hangs and goes like a slug on Bank of America site. I will try out the new version but the last 3 revisions have done nothing to fix it. Apple call Mozilla and get it right!!!

Doozer
Jan 29, 2004, 12:43 PM
2 reasons I'm still hanging on to Explorer and not using Safari:

1. Compatibility with my bank's website (can't access the site using Safari)
2. Mousing-over links in Safari does not give you a way to see where you will be taken (i.e., in Explorer, when you mouse-over a link, the URL or mailto link is displayed at the bottom of the window so you know if you're going to leave the site you're viewing or just go to another section).

...or am I missing something in Safari that solves those issues?

mj_1903
Jan 29, 2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by dashiel
i wouldn't think so. i could be wrong, but there are two issues here that lead me to believe this won't happen. first OS X updates (major not minor) have the very marketable fact that they increase in performance. if ibm's new compilers even deliver half of what has been claimed, OS 10.4 could be an order of magnitude faster than 10.3. apple couldn't pass up on the marketing spin they'd get from that. secondly, it seems rather precarious to update your OS with a new compiler so soon after their official release.

I agree with your first point, although we do not know what type of speed differences we will get with the new compilers and obj-c.

The second point though is not truly correct. IBM simply rewrote their compilers that they have been developing for PPC for years to support some Apple libraries and some changes (aka Altivec) to the chip. I'm sure Apple would use them if they thought it was a good idea, but chances are they won't because they have so much invested in GCC.

pascalpp
Jan 29, 2004, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Doozer
2 reasons I'm still hanging on to Explorer and not using Safari:

1. Compatibility with my bank's website (can't access the site using Safari)
2. Mousing-over links in Safari does not give you a way to see where you will be taken (i.e., in Explorer, when you mouse-over a link, the URL or mailto link is displayed at the bottom of the window so you know if you're going to leave the site you're viewing or just go to another section).

...or am I missing something in Safari that solves those issues?

can't help you with the first one. contact your bank and complain. (yeah, i know.)

but regarding the second: choose View > Show Status Bar. then you can see the URL of links before you click on them.

-p

ITR 81
Jan 29, 2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by arrowoods
I use to love Safari because it was much faster than explorer and just generally cooler. Then I found Mozilla Firebird and it blows Safari out of the water as far as speed. Much better Java support especially on Yahoo games. and it kills Safari on Banking sites for speed. My Safari just hangs and goes like a slug on Bank of America site. I will try out the new version but the last 3 revisions have done nothing to fix it. Apple call Mozilla and get it right!!!

3 revisions?

I only remember two except for that security update.

Safari only crashes on me or freezes is during some Java events..
Never had a slow down or memory issue.

But I do welcome all updates.

If you want to read up on the details Safari updates go here:
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/index.html

PDubNYC
Jan 29, 2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Doozer
2. Mousing-over links in Safari does not give you a way to see where you will be taken (i.e., in Explorer, when you mouse-over a link, the URL or mailto link is displayed at the bottom of the window so you know if you're going to leave the site you're viewing or just go to another section).

...or am I missing something in Safari that solves those issues?

Go to View, click Status Bar, and Voila!


oh, and to someone upset about home/end keys on a laptop, use Command+Up Arrow or Down Arrow. Or maybe just program the function keys to do the same thing.

sparkleytone
Jan 29, 2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by dwsolberg
I'm most excited about the network browsing. Hopefully, they change it back to the way it was in 10.2.x.

(In 10.3.x you need to browse through the Finder to load a server. Then you CAN'T disconnect easily except by shutting off the computer. That's bad for us 'book users. The only current way around this is knowing the direct IP address of the server.)

This isn't true. You can eject any Server just as you would a disk image. When you are going to change networks or just don't want it to be connected anymore, drag the machine name to the trash.

garybooberry
Jan 29, 2004, 12:52 PM
My only concerns with Safari:

1. Java problems.

2. Tabbing with forms.

3. Memory Issues.

Hope this fixes them.

I don't touch a Microsoft product unless I have to.

junior
Jan 29, 2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by dwsolberg
I'm most excited about the network browsing. Hopefully, they change it back to the way it was in 10.2.x.

(In 10.3.x you need to browse through the Finder to load a server. Then you CAN'T disconnect easily except by shutting off the computer. That's bad for us 'book users. The only current way around this is knowing the direct IP address of the server.)

You can disconect simply by dragging the network name into the trash.

Some_Big_Spoon
Jan 29, 2004, 12:54 PM
Yes! seems like Apple was trying to emulate windows networking (ugh) in Panther.. Now we have to know the server address, password, etc, and can't save that info.. so each time we must log the info in manually. Annoying and time consuming, where as in Jag, all the info was stored and we could browse easily.


Originally posted by dwsolberg
I'm most excited about the network browsing. Hopefully, they change it back to the way it was in 10.2.x.

(In 10.3.x you need to browse through the Finder to load a server. Then you CAN'T disconnect easily except by shutting off the computer. That's bad for us 'book users. The only current way around this is knowing the direct IP address of the server.)

gwaereth
Jan 29, 2004, 12:54 PM
Thank God, the only real thing that I miss about Win IE is the tabing to form elements. This really made my day!

:D

dukemeiser
Jan 29, 2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Doozer
2 reasons I'm still hanging on to Explorer and not using Safari:

1. Compatibility with my bank's website (can't access the site using Safari)


Enable the Debug menu and change the User Agent to MS IE. This emulates explorer and should allow you to access your bank site, because the site will think you're using IE.

Some_Big_Spoon
Jan 29, 2004, 01:01 PM
Safari crashes for me every 2-3 days, and I send the bug report like a good user.. From what I get in the code in the report, it's not actually Safari's "fault" for the crash, it's the code on the site I was visiting.

Site's in question have bad, or malformed code (see Hyatt's blog).. It's like Safari is speaking the Queen's English and these sites (coded in windows) are speaking Jive.. So when the two meet, Safari is utterly confused.

David (Hyatt) is completely right about this.. So he's got to teach safari Jive, which he doesn't want to do (and why should he obviously) until there's a better solution (i.e. XML - the non-M$ version ;-) )


Originally posted by ITR 81
3 revisions?

I only remember two except for that security update.

Safari only crashes on me or freezes is during some Java events..
Never had a slow down or memory issue.

But I do welcome all updates.

If you want to read up on the details Safari updates go here:
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/index.html

Rincewind42
Jan 29, 2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by jvaska
how long does it generallly take a "seed" before it released to the public?

That depends entirely on the seed. There really are very few 'typical' times from first seed to release, so I don't think anyone even wants to hazard a guess...

tacomancini
Jan 29, 2004, 01:04 PM
Any word on when this feature will make it into Panther.

Some_Big_Spoon
Jan 29, 2004, 01:04 PM
To easily enable the debug menu, use Safari Enhancer: Safari Enhancer (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/17776)

After installation there will be a new drop down menu on the far right in safari.. from there, you can bastardize to M$IE ;-)

Originally posted by dukemeiser
Enable the Debug menu and change the User Agent to MS IE. This emulates explorer and should allow you to access your bank site, because the site will think you're using IE.

gwaereth
Jan 29, 2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by dukemeiser
Enable the Debug menu and change the User Agent to MS IE. This emulates explorer and should allow you to access your bank site, because the site will think you're using IE.

This would rock, how though do I "Enable the debug menu"

Thanks in advance

mainemike
Jan 29, 2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by garybooberry
My only concerns with Safari:

1. Java problems.

2. Tabbing with forms.

3. Memory Issues.

Hope this fixes them.

I don't touch a Microsoft product unless I have to.

Would be curious to see if others have the same problem I am having with Safari (1.1).

Go to U2's website (www.U2.com) and choose the flash version of their site. Does all of the navigation and info fully load in Safari for you? I can never get this to work and have to switch back to IE, where it does work with no probs.

Anyway.....

Codemonkey
Jan 29, 2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by sethypoo
Personal cursors, sounds like fun!

So how soon untill we might get it?

I don't think that is the meaning of custom cursors. In CSS, you can specify cursor: default (for the pointer), move, help, text, and a few others. Currently Safari doesn't support these, which is a total PITA for certain applications.

gwaereth
Jan 29, 2004, 01:09 PM
Sorry, it craps out for me in Safari as well. I looked at it in IE too just to be sure I understood what you were talking about...

Originally posted by mainemike
Would be curious to see if others have the same problem I am having with Safari (1.1).

Go to U2's website (www.U2.com) and choose the flash version of their site. Does all of the navigation and info fully load in Safari for you? I can never get this to work and have to switch back to IE, where it does work with no probs.

Anyway.....

DrGruv1
Jan 29, 2004, 01:10 PM
Can all of this work be ported over to a 64bit OSX?

When will we have a true 64bit OS?

(I am buying the (g6) in June with the 3ghz chip)

I would guess, every product would have to use the g5 or better... (next June 1.5 years from now???)

But anyhow... is apple building a 64bit os independent of the work they do now, or is there some way they can port over the current panther, tiger etc?

thanx
-mike

MacVault
Jan 29, 2004, 01:11 PM
I'd like to see the faxing feature fixed. I've heard a lot of bugs about that, and I've experienced a few bugs myself, such as when I try to send it does seem to fax the document but it won't hang up the line until it times out five or ten minutes later.

Some additional fax "features" would be nice, like the ability to save copies of outgoing faxes, fax logging, alert of incoming faxes, etc.

gorman
Jan 29, 2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by mainemike
Would be curious to see if others have the same problem I am having with Safari (1.1).

Go to U2's website (www.U2.com) and choose the flash version of their site. Does all of the navigation and info fully load in Safari for you? I can never get this to work and have to switch back to IE, where it does work with no probs.

Anyway.....

Actually, their site doesn't work well in anything aside from IE. I find that sort of amusing, since they use Macs and all. Hopefully they'll have a new site soon that won't have the problem, but the current problems really aren't Safari's fault.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by sabbath999
what on earth are you talking about ? :)

There were threads here that were evidently incomplete. They did not connect until i took the the link to IE Mac. I would assume that if there is a link her in the forums that it would be Safari compatible.

My apologies if I though wrong.

ds9er16
Jan 29, 2004, 01:16 PM
We've all been awaiting the long anticipated speed bumps to the PowerMac G5s, well, here's my theory on it all.

My guess is that, along with the mentioned additions to 10.3.3, there may very well be the addition of 8x DVD burning support. Pioneer, the makers of the SuperDrive, have just recently released a new 8x DVD+R/-R/+RW/-RW Drive. If Apple really wanted to make a speed bumped G5 appealing to people with current PowerMac G5s, the thought of 8x DVD Burning would definitely do so (for me, at least).

My thoughts would be that Apple may finally release updated PowerMacs once Panther 10.3.3 and Safari 1.2 have come out. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple did include a new "8x SuperDrive" with the PowerMac update, since they usually like to be on top of all the new technologies.

After reading an article concerning new AGP cards from ATI, it also seems likely that newer video cards could be making appearances. For example, Mac Editions of the new Radeon 9600 and 9800 XT graphics cards. Bringing high quality, 8x AGP cards with up to 256mb of video memory would also be a factor that could make current G5 users consider updating their machines to a newer G5. Better graphics capabilities would also start to draw gamers to Macs, since Apple computers have been rather lacking in that area compared to some of the high-end PC graphics cards.

In general, I wouldn't be surprised if any of these may be reasons for the delay in updates. The addition of 8x DVD Burning would be a welcomed addition to new G5s. Newer video cards would also draw people to the machines.

Whatever Apple is planning, the speed bumps need to come soon so people like myself can stop going insane waiting for the updates so we can replace our G4s.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Counterfit
Chip: yeah you can say SOB, but I don't see anything to cry about :p

Like I said in the previous post, if there is a link her in the forums i expect it to work. As a OS X newbie if I am missing something PLEASE let me know. I last used Mac under 8.x.

El Tritoma
Jan 29, 2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by dwsolberg
I'm most excited about the network browsing. Hopefully, they change it back to the way it was in 10.2.x.

(In 10.3.x you need to browse through the Finder to load a server. Then you CAN'T disconnect easily except by shutting off the computer. That's bad for us 'book users. The only current way around this is knowing the direct IP address of the server.)
I agree! Sometimes when I get home and wake my TiBook up it seems to freeze up for a while (not completely, but within a couple of degrees of freezing!) until it figures out I am not connected to work computers any more. I know the IP addresses because I also use Red Hat on another computer, but I shouldn't have to know these things using a Mac.

Phazer80s
Jan 29, 2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Doozer
2 reasons I'm still hanging on to Explorer and not using Safari:

1. Compatibility with my bank's website (can't access the site using Safari)
2. Mousing-over links in Safari does not give you a way to see where you will be taken (i.e., in Explorer, when you mouse-over a link, the URL or mailto link is displayed at the bottom of the window so you know if you're going to leave the site you're viewing or just go to another section).

...or am I missing something in Safari that solves those issues?

I think you're missing something about number 2. Hover over a link and look at the bottom of Safari's window. The URL should be there beside "Go to."

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by jaredbbauer
DUDE are you OK? What in the world are you talking about?

There have been multiple threads here about a kid that got a G5 for Xmas and ripped the guts out to put an AMD motherboard in (didn't do a search for the threads for reference, but they are there.

Some of the threads had links that when i clicked on them said that the server was not found or some sort of garbage like that.

To be honest as a newbie if i am missing something in my Safaris setting please let me know. i really hate starting up IE Mac to view sites.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Gymnut
He means that guy that posted pics of his Dual G5 that he received from his parents for Christmas that he gutted to put PC parts in.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57719

Thanks,

Some of the threads did not allow me to visit. I don't remember if i just gave up and used IE Mac or or i got lucky in fining a link that worked IE Mac.

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
You have always been able to middle-click on a link to have it open in a new tab (or right-click, select open in a new tab, or option-click I think).

However, is another application, like, say, Mail, tells Safari to open a link (ie, you click on a link in Mail), it always opens in a new window, never in a tab off the current window.

The latest build apparently allows the user to set a preference so that all requests from other apps go into a new tab on the current window instead.............

Actually the current version does open a link from a different application in the same window in a new tab if.... You have tabbed browsing turned on and you select open links from applications in the current window.

I have it set this way and it always opens a new tab in the same window when clicking links in Mail or any other app.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Doozer
2 reasons I'm still hanging on to Explorer and not using Safari:

1. Compatibility with my bank's website (can't access the site using Safari)
2. Mousing-over links in Safari does not give you a way to see where you will be taken (i.e., in Explorer, when you mouse-over a link, the URL or mailto link is displayed at the bottom of the window so you know if you're going to leave the site you're viewing or just go to another section).

...or am I missing something in Safari that solves those issues?

Amen to that!

i work in advertising. The paer is moving towards E-Tearsheets. Guess what? Their system won't recognize my Safari browser!

Like i told them what happens now that M$ has stopped further development of the IE Mac browser? Do i have to maintain a Windows machine?

Sabenth
Jan 29, 2004, 01:31 PM
ooO so when can we exspect to see this update any time soon i could do with a download resume..
:)

d_p
Jan 29, 2004, 01:31 PM
I can't believe Apple is charging $49 for an update that shoudl be free!!!


;)

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by dukemeiser
Enable the Debug menu and change the User Agent to MS IE. This emulates explorer and should allow you to access your bank site, because the site will think you're using IE.

Thanks for the tip. Can you provide more info on this. I admit that I dislike the Help system. I am an old fart that is used to manuals. Hopefully there will be one soon for OS X 10.3x.

eazyway
Jan 29, 2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Stike
Very good. I have some terrible printing issues with my old Epson 740i (randomly stops while printing, making the page unusable) and I wasn´t able to browse Windows/SMB Networks up to now as it was advertized for Panther. Not even another Mac appeared in the "Network" shortcut... I hope this will be fixed now.

Download the latest drivers from Epson. they will help

El Capitano
Jan 29, 2004, 01:37 PM
Photorun wrote:
I'd love a feature on MacRumors where if someone votes a story as negative they'd need to explain WHY they voted negative. Excepting peecee trolls I can't see why someone voted negative on this story.

I voted negative because
a) I don't like the "Ability to 'tab' to form elements (buttons, checkboxes, submit buttons)" and am disappointed this isn't an option;
b) this looks like another Safari upgrade that won't be available for Jaguar.

That do you?

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by d_p
I can't believe Apple is charging $49 for an update that shoudl be free!!!


;)


What? Did i miss something?

DGFan
Jan 29, 2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Safari crashes for me every 2-3 days, and I send the bug report like a good user.. From what I get in the code in the report, it's not actually Safari's "fault" for the crash, it's the code on the site I was visiting.

Site's in question have bad, or malformed code (see Hyatt's blog).. It's like Safari is speaking the Queen's English and these sites (coded in windows) are speaking Jive.. So when the two meet, Safari is utterly confused.

David (Hyatt) is completely right about this.. So he's got to teach safari Jive, which he doesn't want to do (and why should he obviously) until there's a better solution (i.e. XML - the non-M$ version ;-) )

I don't buy that. One could take that same logic and say that when your computer crashes it's not the OSes fault but the fault of a bad program. But I disagree. A good OS should handle a bad program gracefully and a good browser should handle a bad site gracefully.

Krizoitz
Jan 29, 2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by d_p
I can't believe Apple is charging $49 for an update that shoudl be free!!!


;)
What are you talking about?

fabsgwu
Jan 29, 2004, 01:50 PM
I have my debug menu enabled, and I like it because it gives you the option to "open page with" and then a choice of your other browsers. I did a google search for "enable debug menu safari" and i got instructions on how to do this in terminal. I'm an extreme novice in terminal, but I was able to do it...

ITR 81
Jan 29, 2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Rincewind42
That depends entirely on the seed. There really are very few 'typical' times from first seed to release, so I don't think anyone even wants to hazard a guess...

I figure the Safari release will be here by mid-Feb..not sure on the 10.3.3 update.

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Doozer
...............
2. Mousing-over links in Safari does not give you a way to see where you will be taken (i.e., in Explorer, when you mouse-over a link, the URL or mailto link is displayed at the bottom of the window so you know if you're going to leave the site you're viewing or just go to another section).

...or am I missing something in Safari that solves those issues?

In Safari go to the view menu and select status bar.

nagromme
Jan 29, 2004, 01:59 PM
I wish a pref let you turn "in new window" links into "new tab" links. I know you can command-click, but only AFTER you know a new window was going to pop open. Rather than watch the status bar and manually decide when to hit command, I'd just like all "new window" links to go automatically into a new tab.

Anyway, the new stuff sounds good! Especially resuming downloads. That's all I still use IE for.

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by DGFan
I don't buy that. One could take that same logic and say that when your computer crashes it's not the OSes fault but the fault of a bad program. But I disagree. A good OS should handle a bad program gracefully and a good browser should handle a bad site gracefully.

The OS does handle a bad program gracefully it allows the program to crash and quit without affecting any other running programs.

bdkennedy1
Jan 29, 2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by El Capitano
Photorun wrote:


I voted negative because
a) I don't like the "Ability to 'tab' to form elements (buttons, checkboxes, submit buttons)" and am disappointed this isn't an option;
b) this looks like another Safari upgrade that won't be available for Jaguar.

That do you?

So everyone is supposed to read your mind when you vote negative about the story and don't leave a comment?

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Chip NoVaMac
What? Did i miss something?

$49

It's called a joke man look at the winky.

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by El Capitano
Photorun wrote:


I voted negative because
a) I don't like the "Ability to 'tab' to form elements (buttons, checkboxes, submit buttons)" and am disappointed this isn't an option;
b) this looks like another Safari upgrade that won't be available for Jaguar.

That do you?

Your voting negative on tabbing to form elements because you don't have the option to turn it off?

The feature isn't even released yet how do you know that you won't have an option to turn it on or off?

If you want new features then you should update. Apple shouldn't have to put resources into adding features to old systems. The system still works fine and they still release security updates for it. I don't expect Toyota to add a new updated stereo to my Corolla when they come out with a new updated model. When was the last time Microsoft added features to Windows 98?

greenstork
Jan 29, 2004, 02:06 PM
Yay, finally a good rumor.

It's been a long drought :D

Safari improvements look cool. I am especially excited about opening links from other apps in current window, in new tab. I have a big monitor and every window in its place. When a new safari window opens, it messes with my mojo. Tabs are great, good stuff!

beg_ne
Jan 29, 2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by DrGruv1
Can all of this work be ported over to a 64bit OSX?

When will we have a true 64bit OS?

(I am buying the (g6) in June with the 3ghz chip)

I would guess, every product would have to use the g5 or better... (next June 1.5 years from now???)

But anyhow... is apple building a 64bit os independent of the work they do now, or is there some way they can port over the current panther, tiger etc?

thanx
-mike

I wouldn't count on a 64-bit OS for atleast 5 years IMO. Apple needs to purge all non-64-bit(sub-G5) hardware from their product lineup first, and then probably a few more years of support for people who don't upgrade often.

AFAIK there really isn't any need for the whole OS to be 64-bit as most of what the OS does doesn't come close to needing it, there are currently not very many apps at all(any?) that even need it.

And I wouldn't expect a G6 for a while still either. :)

greenstork
Jan 29, 2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
To easily enable the debug menu, use Safari Enhancer: Safari Enhancer (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/17776)

After installation there will be a new drop down menu on the far right in safari.. from there, you can bastardize to M$IE ;-) ]

Maintain also has the debug menu too, plus maintain is a kick-ass free app to keep you Mac fresh.

coolsoldier
Jan 29, 2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
If you want new features then you should update. Apple shouldn't have to put resources into adding features to old systems. The system still works fine and they still release security updates for it. I don't expect Toyota to add a new updated stereo to my Corolla when they come out with a new updated model. When was the last time Microsoft added features to Windows 98?

Windows 98 users were getting updates to Internet Explorer for quite some time after Windows ME was released. I think it is perfectly reasonable to be able to update the web browser independently of the OS. The web browser is NOT a special feature of the system, it is a program, and if Apple expects users to actually use their browser for anything other than downloading a different one, they need to keep it up to date.

DGFan
Jan 29, 2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
The OS does handle a bad program gracefully it allows the program to crash and quit without affecting any other running programs.

The point was that one could use the same logic to argue that Windows is stable because it's only bad programs that cause it to crash. But a good OS should handle bad programs....just like a good browser should not crash and close my 10 perfectly fine windows just because one site has bad Flash code or something.

greenstork
Jan 29, 2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Phazer80s
I think you're missing something about number 2. Hover over a link and look at the bottom of Safari's window. The URL should be there beside "Go to."

You have to display the status bar. Although I am on an OS 9 machine now I think the statuys bar is under the view options in Safari. Once diplayed, you can mouse over links and it will appear on the bottom.

Wonder Boy
Jan 29, 2004, 02:17 PM
my biggest problem with safari is that the tabs "x" doesnt always work. i have to click the "x" 5 or 6 times just to close a tab.

Edot
Jan 29, 2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by beg_ne
I wouldn't count on a 64-bit OS for atleast 5 years IMO. Apple needs to purge all non-64-bit(sub-G5) hardware from their product lineup first, and then probably a few more years of support for people who don't upgrade often.

AFAIK there really isn't any need for the whole OS to be 64-bit as most of what the OS does doesn't come close to needing it, there are currently not very many apps at all(any?) that even need it.

And I wouldn't expect a G6 for a while still either. :)

In 5 years we should be closing in on OS 11 or whatever it is called. Currently Aqua stresses some systems. 64-bit will be a requirement for more complex applications, and those complex applications will soon become the operating system. Expand your imagination because the power of applications is far behind the power of the hardware it runs on. Apple is trying to create software that leaves your processor maxed out. I think this is the way to go with software. There is currently too much hardware power going to waste, and 64-bit processors create an even bigger margin. I certainly hope that when the MacOS goes to 64-bit that it will go 64-bit for a reason. I believe they have had to tone down OS X's graphic system because of slower hardware. This is a good thing! Who wants to play atari all the time when we can have GameCubes?

Bear
Jan 29, 2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by DrGruv1
Can all of this work be ported over to a 64bit OSX?

When will we have a true 64bit OS?

(I am buying the (g6) in June with the 3ghz chip)

I would guess, every product would have to use the g5 or better... (next June 1.5 years from now???)

But anyhow... is apple building a 64bit os independent of the work they do now, or is there some way they can port over the current panther, tiger etc?

thanx
-mike First of all, the 3GHz proc will most likely still be called a G5 by Apple.

Second, if you read other threads about Mac OS X and 64 bits you would find out the OS doesn't need to be 64 bit, it just needs to be able to handle the larger memory space (Panther already does that) and handle programs that are 64bit.

Not all applications benefit from being recompiled as a 64bit application.

Fuchal
Jan 29, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Chip NoVaMac
Sounds promising. Now if Safari can open links like what I found here on that SOB (can I say that?) that abused his parents and his Xmas G5?

Heh, I don't care if he did that... just one more sale for Apple on a dual g5. :P What he does with it after I don't care.

RBR2
Jan 29, 2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by sabbath999
what on earth are you talking about ? :)

There was some kid who gutted a G5 tower and put a PC in it. Yawn!

El Capitano
Jan 29, 2004, 02:37 PM
bdkennedy1 wrote:
So everyone is supposed to read your mind when you vote negative about the story and don't leave a comment?

Er, no?

The whole point about the positive/negative votes is that it's just a snapshot of people's reactions. Not a complete dissection of what/where/why/how. I'm not aware I'm under any obligation to post all my innermost thoughts to MacRumors forums.

MacBandit wrote:

The feature isn't even released yet how do you know that you won't have an option to turn it on or off?

I don't know what's in the release. I'm voting on the story. The story says explicitly that there's an on/off option for hyperlinks but doesn't say this for the form elements.

If you want new features then you should update. Apple shouldn't have to put resources into adding features to old systems. The system still works fine and they still release security updates for it. I don't expect Toyota to add a new updated stereo to my Corolla when they come out with a new updated model. When was the last time Microsoft added features to Windows 98?

Bad analogy. You can use the latest version of IE (6.0) with Windows 98, or with NT 4: see this link (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/critical/ie6sp1/default.asp). Yet you can't use the latest version of Safari with an Apple OS released just the other year. That sucks.

Sure, Apple don't have to put resources into maintaining backward compatibility with what was the standard platform until a few months ago. It's up to them: it's a commercial decision. The flip-side of that decision is that they're pissing a lot of their users off. I'm not refusing to upgrade out of spite or poverty: it's because 10.3 doesn't support my CD burner. Simple.

Some people on this board get hyper-sensitive any time you express a reaction to new Apple developments which isn't 100% positive. It was exactly the same with the GarageBand thread... any suggestion that an extra feature would be useful was met with "HEY! This is FREE! Quit moaning, ok?". Come on. Just because it's free doesn't mean it's perfect.

DrGruv1
Jan 29, 2004, 02:40 PM
First of all, the 3GHz proc will most likely still be called a G5 by Apple.

Second, if you read other threads about Mac OS X and 64 bits you would find out the OS doesn't need to be 64 bit, it just needs to be able to handle the larger memory space (Panther already does that) and handle programs that are 64bit.

Not all applications benefit from being recompiled as a 64bit application.

________

I would like the fastest possible os, especially with emagic and tons of virtual synths and altiverb channels...

I've sold off my 9 synths and have gone the virtual route (my g4 is dying, trying to get everything going... and for those that know, I'm freezing the heck out of the tracks to make it work)

P.S. Logic upgrade prices are available on the apple site. NEW ED version Logic 6 Pro $499 WOW

I've paid thousands as have many...

now $499 and the shipping date says 14-15 days.

-mike

Delta-9
Jan 29, 2004, 02:43 PM
I hope the guy who writes the code for PithHelmet gets on the ball and gets an advance copy of the latest Safari. I hate getting new safari from Apple, then waiting ~a month~ for PithHelmet to be updated.

stingerman
Jan 29, 2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by beg_ne
I wouldn't count on a 64-bit OS for atleast 5 years IMO. Apple needs to purge all non-64-bit(sub-G5) hardware from their product lineup first, and then probably a few more years of support for people who don't upgrade often.

AFAIK there really isn't any need for the whole OS to be 64-bit as most of what the OS does doesn't come close to needing it, there are currently not very many apps at all(any?) that even need it.

And I wouldn't expect a G6 for a while still either. :)

Apple does not need to re-write OS. They primarily need to make sure that the frameworks are 64-bit safe. Development of OS X started before C99 was released thus Apple can not assure that the various frameworks will handle 64-bit integers safely. Thus Apple needs to re-test every line of code. It is not as big as it seems. From now on, as Apple releases updates and new frameworks they test it now. In addition, they have a team that is checking and testing everything else.

So it will not take 5 years, I hope to see it by January 2005 in 10.4.

As far as 10.3.5, the rumors are that Apple will add more cinematic type GUI elements to the OS. Similar to the genie effect, the animated lock, the cube, Expose',etc. I understand that they were planned for the initial release but for some reason, pulled out. Maybe, debugging reasons, maybe they wanted to release them along with the rumored new iMac G5.

Aqua OS X
Jan 29, 2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Chip NoVaMac
Sounds promising. Now if Safari can open links like what I found here on that SOB (can I say that?) that abused his parents and his Xmas G5?

please, say "son of a bitch."

We'll all much much happier :D

ionas
Jan 29, 2004, 02:46 PM
imho are:

changes to graphics and
changes for opengl games

hope we can see more gfx speed

ionas
Jan 29, 2004, 03:01 PM
1. must be the day they also carge for the use of the safari html module other apps can use - else you can code your own browser unter mac os x very fast.

2. must be a day 95%+ of all apple users use safari.

3. must be the day where apple is sure that most of the 95%+ users wont switch back to things like firebird 1.x (which will be out then for sure) (which might be name different then - who knows)

4. cause of reason 2 and 3 must be the day where apple has 10% market share to have a total big dominance of as well more stupid ppl who will play the stupid game with them.

apple will only release commercial apps if there are either no existing onces or the existing onces can be categorized by following criteria or criterias:

1. the app is bad, is old, needs replacement => lack of the supporter

2. the app is mostly polished under windows, and used there much, this is bad for apple

3. the company (apple) or sj got a "personal" problem with the software and they/he want/s to get rid of the dedendencies.

example for 1. = Quark; but Adobe brought an better alternative, so its not a problem apple has to care about

example for 2. = adobe premiere, so they brought us finalcut pro

example for 3. = microsoft office; apple will push into the office market at one time they feel ready to do it, i am VERY sure about that.

the digital Hub is not only a "funny life" thing but also something they want to be for soho and professional use.

things like garageband extend the digital hub system and there is no good alternatives so they can get money for it while they connect apps with each other well (iTunes, iTMS, iPod, Garageband)

just me thoughts...

ionas
Jan 29, 2004, 03:07 PM
i think we will see partial support in 10.4 in q1/q2 2005.

i think we will see full support in 10.5 in q2/q3 2006.

(just my estimates)

partial support can either be tested but not official marketed frameworks that can be used for 64bit stuff, or can be the kernel itself that is recoded for 64bit in areas where it makes sense.

i think they wont make a big announcement about partial 64bit os integration because of following two reasons:

1. they like the big bang
2. they want to keep the customers think not about 64bit at all - they got a 64bit MAC so its 64bit - what the heck? my os isnt 64bit? my machine isnt 64bit? so my impression is just wrong?
they cant do that.

so they will go for a big bang, and they will only go for it if there are also mayor performance increases (either really by the usage of 64bit, or by the usage of ibm's compiler for critical components at least, or by a new cpu revision, as long as it is marketed as ONE thing, it isnt important where the speedbumps come from)

greetings :-]

Rower_CPU
Jan 29, 2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Wonder Boy
my biggest problem with safari is that the tabs "x" doesnt always work. i have to click the "x" 5 or 6 times just to close a tab.

Sorry, but I think that's just you. No problems here in my lab with that at all.

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by greenstork
Yay, finally a good rumor.

It's been a long drought :D

Safari improvements look cool. I am especially excited about opening links from other apps in current window, in new tab. I have a big monitor and every window in its place. When a new safari window opens, it messes with my mojo. Tabs are great, good stuff!

You can do this currently as stated several times whithin this thread.

What you need to do is...............

a) have tabbed browsing turned on

b) go to Safari prefs and general option chose open links in the current window.

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Sorry, but I think that's just you. No problems here in my lab with that at all.

Agreed I've never had that problem.

El Tritoma
Jan 29, 2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Fuchal
Heh, I don't care if he did that... just one more sale for Apple on a dual g5. :P What he does with it after I don't care.
You know, I'll bet Enderle and the others like him will try to count this as a Wintel sale!:D When you buy a CD that has both Windows and Mac versions on it, then it usually gets counted as a Windows s/w sale (read this a couple of places last year, can't remember where). This is only one reason why I don't pay attention to market share numbers.

mattroberts
Jan 29, 2004, 03:22 PM
pascalpp and others

I may have missed a previous post for this but You don't need to install safari inhancer to get the debug menu

1- gointo terminal
2- TYPE: defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

Now, if anyone knows a way to cycle through all my tabs, without the mouse, I'd appreciate that. Kind of an Alt-Tab for just Safari tabs? :-)


cheers
m

Stike
Jan 29, 2004, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by eazyway
Download the latest drivers from Epson. they will help
Haha, good one ;)
I already tried, and on epson.com all it says there is that the drivers for my printer are in OS X included! ;) So I am back where I started.

PDubNYC
Jan 29, 2004, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by mattroberts


Now, if anyone knows a way to cycle through all my tabs, without the mouse, I'd appreciate that. Kind of an Alt-Tab for just Safari tabs? :-)


cheers
m

command+shift+arrows for tabs, command+` to go between windows

applekid
Jan 29, 2004, 03:25 PM
I hope the speed improvements in Safari are major. Reading Korean news sites is a pain.

mattroberts
Jan 29, 2004, 03:28 PM
PDubNYC Thanks!

:)

The Ancients
Jan 29, 2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by dukemeiser
Enable the Debug menu and change the User Agent to MS IE. This emulates explorer and should allow you to access your bank site, because the site will think you're using IE.

This does not emulate IE. It sets the user-agent string to IE, which means the browser is identifying itself as IE (or whichever browser is selected). This will garner different results if the issue is caused by the site only allowing certain browsers access (usually due to security concerns). However, if it is due to the site using proprietary calls or code which the browser used does not understand, the user is still stranded.

yoonsik99
Jan 29, 2004, 03:33 PM
I hope the speed improvements in Safari are major. Reading Korean news sites is a pain.

I totally agree with you. But keep in mind that the Korean news sites are only optimised for IE 6.0

Surely it is no wonder why the sites are very slow on Mac and other minor OS based browsers as well.

Anyhow, good to see there is a person who actually knows how to read Korean. (Or maybe you are a Korean. Who knows?
;) )

Fukui
Jan 29, 2004, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by The Ancients
This does not emulate IE. It sets the user-agent string to IE, which means the browser is identifying itself as IE (or whichever browser is selected). This will garner different results if the issue is caused by the site only allowing certain browsers access (usually due to security concerns).

Or MSNBC blocking non-ie browsers for no reason at all....well maybe there IS a reason...he he he...

gekko513
Jan 29, 2004, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by DrGruv1
Can all of this work be ported over to a 64bit OSX?

When will we have a true 64bit OS?

(I am buying the (g6) in June with the 3ghz chip)

I would guess, every product would have to use the g5 or better... (next June 1.5 years from now???)

But anyhow... is apple building a 64bit os independent of the work they do now, or is there some way they can port over the current panther, tiger etc?

thanx
-mike

Why do you want a true 64 bit OS? What do you think it will do you good.

It will not double the speed or anything of all programs if that's what you think. Most programs will run exactly the same whether they are calculating with 32 bit integers or with 64 bit integers.

64 bit computing is good for some tasks, and Apple has rebuilt the modules of OS X in Panther where it makes a difference. I'm sure there are still some left, but I'm also sure they have changed the most important ones (that will allow larger memory space for processes for example).

And 3rd party programs are free to do as much 64 bit computing as they want, so you're really not missing out on anything.

applekid
Jan 29, 2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by yoonsik99
I totally agree with you. But keep in mind that the Korean news sites are only optimised for IE 6.0

Surely it is no wonder why the sites are very slow on Mac and other minor OS based browsers as well.

Anyhow, good to see there is a person who actually knows how to read Korean. (Or maybe you are a Korean. Who knows?
;) )

Perhaps. :D

Yeah, I'm Korean. But my parents read the Korean news more than me. So for their sake, Safari needs a good speed boost.

Makosuke
Jan 29, 2004, 04:08 PM
Fixes are always good, but I'm forced to agree with the complaint that Safari isn't being updated for 10.2 (or heck, even earlier).

There are lots of browsers out there, and the Mac compatible ones but Safari run under 10.2. On one hand, this means that there are certainly plenty of viable alternatives (and I might add Camino runs extremely well under Jaguar), so it's not like 10.2 users are left out in the cold when it comes to the web. Heck, Apple didn't even make a browser until last year, so you could even pretend they never did.

On the other hand, it's sort of embarassing when the only browser not being updated for 10.2 is the one made by Apple. Furthermore, the more indespensible Safari becomes to the Mac user (due to Hyatt's hard work making it cool), the more it hurts to be stuck at an earlier version just because you're not ready for an OS upgrade yet.

And yes, there are logical reasons for it--Apple is using a bunch of features that are new in Panther to make Safari run smoother, but really, shouldn't they be making it a light, transparent tool that runs almost anywhere, rather than going the MS route (even more so now that MS isn't updating the non-MSN version of IE except with major OS upgrades, either?).

All that said, really I just hope Hyatt figures a way to work around not being able to italicize text in fonts that don't have an explicit italic version. That and some fixes for the kludge that is network browsing under 10.3.

pcharles
Jan 29, 2004, 04:11 PM
Hmmm, mine is using 46MB or real memory with 4 tabs active. Am I looking at the right thing - the activity monitor?



Originally posted by Keith Purfield
I hope that Safari 1.2 fixes its memory issues. It's currently using 114MB of my RAM, and all I have is this reply window and the Rumors forum open in a tabbed window.

sdf
Jan 29, 2004, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by El Capitano
Photorun wrote:

a) I don't like the "Ability to 'tab' to form elements (buttons, checkboxes, submit buttons)" and am disappointed this isn't an option;

Of course not. It's in the Keyboard & Mouse preference pane.

mclosers
Jan 29, 2004, 04:16 PM
I hope apple reads this....
anyways how about an option in safari to alway open all links in a new tab rather than having to right click(or control click for you fools without a logitech mx700[best mouse ever made in my opinion]) anyways there should be multiple variations on the same concept like clicking a link opens it in a new window(instead of new tab) and maybe a key to hold down while clicking to open the link in a new tab instead of the same window, thus allowing people with tons of mice buttons(not sure about tense of mouse there) to click one button to open a link in a tab. This is a minor thing but would put safari light years(ok maybe .00001 light years) ahead of the competition and would help out lazy people all over the world

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2004, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
$49

It's called a joke man look at the winky.

Given the change in how iLife is handled you can understand how some of us look at you comment...

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by coolsoldier
Windows 98 users were getting updates to Internet Explorer for quite some time after Windows ME was released. I think it is perfectly reasonable to be able to update the web browser independently of the OS. The web browser is NOT a special feature of the system, it is a program, and if Apple expects users to actually use their browser for anything other than downloading a different one, they need to keep it up to date.

Here here!

tiktokfx
Jan 29, 2004, 04:27 PM
Nowhere does it actually say "SAFARI 1.2 WILL ONLY BE AVAILABLE FOR 10.3," now does it?

Calm down people.

travishill
Jan 29, 2004, 04:29 PM
Actually, to quote AppleInsider:

Safari 1.2 amounts to a brief 4MB download, but reportedly requires a machine running Mac OS X 10.3.3.

tiktokfx
Jan 29, 2004, 04:31 PM
Yes, it probably requires 10.3.3 BECAUSE IT'S A BETA.

Let's all make sure we assume the worst based on whatever rumors we hear.

tiktokfx
Jan 29, 2004, 04:33 PM
Simple thought:

Apple doesn't want random people sneaking copies of a beta version because it's, SURRISE, a beta version. So the BETA VERSION is limited to work with a BETA VERSION OS upgrade, because they're fairly confident that far fewer people are willing to risk loading a beta version of an OS on their normal machines.

cyberrob
Jan 29, 2004, 04:34 PM
wow... sounds great... maybe i can finally see all neighbours in my network... and MAYBE FINALLY:

Serial Port Profile (short SPP) SUPPORT

PLEASE APPLE!!!

i will use my d-link dbt 120 bluetooth adapter to link to my hp laserjet printer (with usb bluetooth-module for shure!)

thx, thx, thx, bros!!!

/-) cyberrob

travishill
Jan 29, 2004, 04:42 PM
I tend to believe that as Dave Hyatt runs into problems with Safari that are actually issues in the OS or their APIs that he gets them changed/updated/fixed- and of course that would prevent backporting to an OS that does not have those changes.

So it makes sense to me that Safari updates follow with OS updates as has been the pattern thus far.

I'd love to be wrong, but my gut tells me this is the case...

El Capitano
Jan 29, 2004, 04:58 PM
tiktokfx wrote:Apple doesn't want random people sneaking copies of a beta version because it's, SURRISE, a beta version. So the BETA VERSION is limited to work with a BETA VERSION OS upgrade, because they're fairly confident that far fewer people are willing to risk loading a beta version of an OS on their normal machines.
Sure. But 1.1 isn't a beta and that requires 10.3.

jesuscandle
Jan 29, 2004, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by mattroberts
pascalpp and others

I may have missed a previous post for this but You don't need to install safari inhancer to get the debug menu

1- gointo terminal
2- TYPE: defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

Now, if anyone knows a way to cycle through all my tabs, without the mouse, I'd appreciate that. Kind of an Alt-Tab for just Safari tabs? :-)


cheers
m

I'm at work (read: windows) so I'm not certain I have the key combo right. But I think it's <shift>+<apple>+<right arrow>

One cool added feature: left arrow works too. You can just go right down the line in either direction.

One question, though - I'm a relatively recent switcher to full time ibook at home, but I've used macs forever. Heck, my typing class in middle school even had IIc's. But I didn't get the memo about changing the "apple" key to the "command" key.

When did that happen? Is there a specific reason?

I still say "apple" because I like it. Sometimes, I even catch myself saying "open apple." That makes me smile.

todd

ginoledesma
Jan 29, 2004, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by sparkleytone
This isn't true. You can eject any Server just as you would a disk image. When you are going to change networks or just don't want it to be connected anymore, drag the machine name to the trash.

ginoledesma
Jan 29, 2004, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by sparkleytone
This isn't true. You can eject any Server just as you would a disk image. When you are going to change networks or just don't want it to be connected anymore, drag the machine name to the trash.

In Panther, there are two ways to connect/mount an SMB server: using Connect to Server (Command-K) or using the Finder's network browser. In the latter, there is an issue of "connectnig" to a computer but not being able to disconnect from it as opposed to just mounting/unmounting a volume. Computers are considered active/connected when their icons in the network browser list are not grayed out (colored).

Panther has been a bane for SMB networking (http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184825) for a lot of people -- not just a few. Most of the time it doesn't bother regular users, but those who use it extensively feel the "backwardness" Panther seemed to take from Jaguar's improvements.

sickracer2015
Jan 29, 2004, 05:35 PM
this is a good update.. but dont try to find it and install it.. I wont even install it on my test drive just check out these issues:

- On some machines with BlueTooth support, menu bar items may not appear (e.g. clock, airport status, bluetooth status, etc.) - On some machines with BlueTooth support, peripherals may fail to mount. If this happens, try removing the BlueTooth status icon in the menu bar (hold down Command key, click and drag off menu bar.) - Power Mac G4 500 MHz Dual Processor machines may fail to wake up from sleep - Slower bootup time may occur - Installer read me currently only has placeholder text - Some relocated applications may not get upd- Timezone may be reset to Pacific Time Zone

Photorun
Jan 29, 2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by El Capitano
Photorun wrote:


I voted negative because
a) I don't like the "Ability to 'tab' to form elements (buttons, checkboxes, submit buttons)" and am disappointed this isn't an option;
b) this looks like another Safari upgrade that won't be available for Jaguar.

That do you?

Actually thanks El Capitano, I appreciate seeing the negative explained, it sorta makes sense. Don't jump the gun too fast, it may be available for Jaguar as well, we won't know yet. Safari isn't, from my only general understanding, linked to the OS as much as some of the other iLife apps or especially something like FontBook. It's very conceivable in fact it should work with Panther. Maybe find out from someone it was seeded to. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya. Though I upgrade OS X and the pro apps like Adobe CS and Macromedia MX stuff all the time I do realize this isn't an option for everyone.

jettredmont
Jan 29, 2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Doozer
2 reasons I'm still hanging on to Explorer and not using Safari:

1. Compatibility with my bank's website (can't access the site using Safari)


90% of the time, a bank's site "not working" in Safari is usually because they either:

A) Went all-out in Internet Explorer customizations and don't work in anything but IE6.0/Win

B) Are using a browser-detect script which doesn't recognize Safari and decides that if it doesn't know your browser it just plain istn' going to talk to you.

Short of licensing IE 6.0/Win and porting it directly to OS X, I don't see how Safari could fix either of these. In other words, Safari ain't broke; your bank is!


2. Mousing-over links in Safari does not give you a way to see where you will be taken (i.e., in Explorer, when you mouse-over a link, the URL or mailto link is displayed at the bottom of the window so you know if you're going to leave the site you're viewing or just go to another section).


That's because IE has the status bar on by default, while Safari has it off. You can turn it back on under View.
.

Photorun
Jan 29, 2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by mclosers
I hope apple reads this....
anyways how about an option in safari to alway open all links in a new tab rather than having to right click(or control click for you fools without a logitech mx700[best mouse ever made in my opinion]) anyways there should be multiple variations on the same concept like clicking a link opens it in a new window(instead of new tab) and maybe a key to hold down while clicking to open the link in a new tab instead of the same window, thus allowing people with tons of mice buttons(not sure about tense of mouse there) to click one button to open a link in a tab. This is a minor thing but would put safari light years(ok maybe .00001 light years) ahead of the competition and would help out lazy people all over the world

Huh? You can do this under the Preferences? Check it out. Logitech 700 was pretty good, seems like mice quality goes downhill. I like the Apple mouse but that one button is completely worthless.

El Capitano
Jan 29, 2004, 06:03 PM
Photorun - thanx for friendly reply... will keep my fingers crossed for a 10.2 version.

WM.
Jan 29, 2004, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by ginoledesma
In Panther, there are two ways to connect/mount an SMB server: using Connect to Server (Command-K) or using the Finder's network browser. In the latter, there is an issue of "connectnig" to a computer but not being able to disconnect from it as opposed to just mounting/unmounting a volume. Computers are considered active/connected when their icons in the network browser list are not grayed out (colored).
You can drag those computer names to the Trash, and they'll gray out, and you'll have to type the password back in to re-connect. That's what you want, right?

Now, I'm not sure if this works for SMB connections, but it definitely does work for AFP.

HTH
WM

Agathon
Jan 29, 2004, 06:16 PM
Can anyone say whether they've added an option to open the download manager in a new tab instead of a separate window?

If so, then my email to Apple about this must have worked and I will be a happy camper.

WM.
Jan 29, 2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
For now, though, dragging the link to a Safari window will do (although it would be nice to be able to drag it to the tab bar and have Safari create a new tab like Firebird does ...)
This already works. There's always a space to the right of the rightmost tab, into which you can drag a link to create a new tab with that link. Once you get enough tabs that the >> overflow menu appears, you can drag links onto that and you'll also get a new tab. At least, that works with links from Safari windows--maybe it doesn't work with links from other apps...?

HTH
WM

Kiwi-Todd
Jan 29, 2004, 06:28 PM
I'd have to believe that there is something wrong with your setup as I use this functionality every day. Might want to check your Directory Access to make sure you are using Appletalk and SMB. But I've had great luck with these features.

I have had the same problems as Stike - browsing the network is totally flaky - even mac to mac has become a lottery for me in Panther let alone mac-win.

My network was purrfect in Jaguar - so I see no reason why I should expect it to pack-up due to an upgrade.

My Mac reseller has had heaps of similar problems with other customers and to date they can't nail the problem down to one thing.

I am also hoping for a return to the functionality and stability of Jaguar's networking.

Kiwi-Todd
Jan 29, 2004, 06:32 PM
Panther has been a bane for SMB networking for a lot of people -- not just a few. Most of the time it doesn't bother regular users, but those who use it extensively feel the "backwardness" Panther seemed to take from Jaguar's improvements.

I couldn't agree more. I just want easy networking back as I am no techno guru just a plain old user!

Indiana Mac
Jan 29, 2004, 06:34 PM
This looks like a nice bit of progress for Safari, might even bring me back to using it again if this is true.

WM.
Jan 29, 2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by arrowoods
I use to love Safari because it was much faster than explorer and just generally cooler. Then I found Mozilla Firebird and it blows Safari out of the water as far as speed. Much better Java support especially on Yahoo games. and it kills Safari on Banking sites for speed. My Safari just hangs and goes like a slug on Bank of America site. I will try out the new version but the last 3 revisions have done nothing to fix it. Apple call Mozilla and get it right!!!
That banking site slowness is probably the HTTPS issue that someone mentioned previously. Safari has a bug/design issue/something where it will open a new HTTPS connection for each element on a page...or something like that--I don't know the exact details. Whatever it is, it makes HTTPS way slow, and I'm pretty sure Dave Hyatt has kind of acknowledged it, so it should be fixed at some point (hopefully in 1.2).

WM

WM.
Jan 29, 2004, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by nagromme
I wish a pref let you turn "in new window" links into "new tab" links. I know you can command-click, but only AFTER you know a new window was going to pop open. Rather than watch the status bar and manually decide when to hit command, I'd just like all "new window" links to go automatically into a new tab.

Anyway, the new stuff sounds good! Especially resuming downloads. That's all I still use IE for.
Yeah, I agree 100%. I don't like it when site designers dictate (using JavaScript) that I really need a new window for something. I'm not sure how Safari would want to deal with JavaScript commands to make a window a certain size, have scroll bars or not, make it resizable or not, etc.--obviously you can't dictate any of those things in a tab.

WM

WM.
Jan 29, 2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by mclosers
I hope apple reads this....
anyways how about an option in safari to alway open all links in a new tab rather than having to right click(or control click for you fools without a logitech mx700[best mouse ever made in my opinion]) anyways there should be multiple variations on the same concept like clicking a link opens it in a new window(instead of new tab) and maybe a key to hold down while clicking to open the link in a new tab instead of the same window, thus allowing people with tons of mice buttons(not sure about tense of mouse there) to click one button to open a link in a tab.
At least with the default settings, you can command-click to open a link in a new tab and command-shift-click to open in a new tab behind the current one. Program a mouse button for one of the key combos and you're in business...

HTH
WM

fluidinclusion
Jan 29, 2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
$49

It's called a joke man look at the winky.


Hey, Stop lookin' at my winky.

zoozx
Jan 29, 2004, 07:13 PM
Well Hopefully printing improvements will bring OSX up to Mac levels instead of being the ridiculous Quagmire Windows like Mess it is now with multiple windows sloppy interface repetitive tasks required and the inability to save settings. A Major waste of time and confusion for any serious artist making high end museum quality prints!:mad:

Makosuke
Jan 29, 2004, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Kiwi-Todd
My network was purrfect in Jaguar - so I see no reason why I should expect it to pack-up due to an upgrade.

...

I am also hoping for a return to the functionality and stability of Jaguar's networking. To be fair to Panther, it took a big step forward in terms of smooth networking--it works better with the SMB shares on my network than Jaguar did, windows shares actually display with their sharename (a HUGE improvement), and the Connect To Server dialog isn't modal anymore. All things I've been desperately wishing for.

Unfortunately, it also took a couple of significant steps back, which is what eveybody (or almost everybody--I certainly am) is hoping Apple will get right with a .3.x update along the line here eventually.

Flaky connections, difficulty in identifying whether you're connected to a server or not (what WM. suggested is correct, but even the display is a bit inconsistant, and I still have to navigate to the share to see if I'm connected to it--not trivial on a large network), reduced usefulness in the Connect to Sever dialog, and the bloody thing STILL won't connect to a SMB share via an IP address if it's outside the local domain (at least no kernel panic now).

Why can't they just add SMB networking to the OS9 Network Browser? Is that too much to ask?

macmax
Jan 29, 2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Gymnut
He means that guy that posted pics of his Dual G5 that he received from his parents for Christmas that he gutted to put PC parts in.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57719

I FEEL SICK, i am going to bed now, i emailed that sucker

i just said , oh my God, stupidity is among subhumans too.

sweetaction
Jan 29, 2004, 07:33 PM
now I can log into bank of america and not have it relocate and stop leaving my socail security number and account number in the URL!

and the form frop down lists and buttons respond to text size adjustments.

go apple

fabsgwu
Jan 29, 2004, 07:57 PM
Just to throw something else on the pile of negatives for Panther, Jag too for that matter; iPod management.

It may not be that big of an issue, but when an iPod is connected to the Mac, when the computer goes to sleep, the ipod stays connected and "awake," only now it's not being charged--so you're left with a drained battery, not to mention unnecessary charge-drain cycles. Also, sometimes when the ipod is connected, it doesn't show up as a connected drive (even though I have it set as a firewire hard disk).

I HOPE they address this issue, as well as the many networking issues discussed in this thread. I know a lot of the problems come from Windows complications (windows networking isn't a savior by any means), Apple really needs to pin down these basic OS issues before moving on to the more sexy updates.

OS X is great to use and work with, but it has it's own quarks. I suppose it is a young OS, relatively speaking, but I hope the Apple developers really polish Panther before charging another buck fifty for an upgrade. :rolleyes:

joemama
Jan 29, 2004, 08:07 PM
The only feature Safari needed was the ability to type letters in a pulldown menu and have it jump down...instead of having to click and scroll down! (so annoying)

WM.
Jan 29, 2004, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Makosuke
To be fair to Panther, it took a big step forward in terms of smooth networking--it works better with the SMB shares on my network than Jaguar did, windows shares actually display with their sharename (a HUGE improvement), and the Connect To Server dialog isn't modal anymore. All things I've been desperately wishing for.

Unfortunately, it also took a couple of significant steps back, which is what eveybody (or almost everybody--I certainly am) is hoping Apple will get right with a .3.x update along the line here eventually.

Flaky connections, difficulty in identifying whether you're connected to a server or not (what WM. suggested is correct, but even the display is a bit inconsistant, and I still have to navigate to the share to see if I'm connected to it--not trivial on a large network), reduced usefulness in the Connect to Sever dialog,
Absolutely, the interface sucks (relatively) and they need to change it.* I just didn't want people to think that Apple had removed more functionality than they actually did. :)
and the bloody thing STILL won't connect to a SMB share via an IP address if it's outside the local domain (at least no kernel panic now).

Why can't they just add SMB networking to the OS9 Network Browser? Is that too much to ask?
I never used the Network Browser in OS 9, so I wouldn't know what to think about that, but it seems like people were pretty happy about the Jaguar UI, and they just wanted it to actually work better (which Panther apparently does under some conditions). Which is basically what you said. :)

WM

*Hmm, not the best sentence: "The interface absolutely relatively sucks." :eek: Maybe I need a semicolon there instead. What I mean is, Makosuke is absolutely right and the interface sucks relative to Jaguar.

Just a friendly announcement from your self-editing grammar stickler. :)

WM.
Jan 29, 2004, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by joemama
The only feature Safari needed was the ability to type letters in a pulldown menu and have it jump down...instead of having to click and scroll down! (so annoying)
Not sure if you know this already, but this is a new, system-wide feature in Panther.

WM

New Guy
Jan 29, 2004, 08:21 PM
I'm still holding out for the ability to drag tabs around a window (to reorder them), out of a window (to spawn a new window) or between windows. It just seems a logical extension of the Tabbed interface metaphor.

Craig

Glial
Jan 29, 2004, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Your voting negative on tabbing to form elements because you don't have the option to turn it off?

The feature isn't even released yet how do you know that you won't have an option to turn it on or off?

If you want new features then you should update. Apple shouldn't have to put resources into adding features to old systems. The system still works fine and they still release security updates for it. I don't expect Toyota to add a new updated stereo to my Corolla when they come out with a new updated model. When was the last time Microsoft added features to Windows 98?

Jaquar is an "old system"?

But you do expect Toyota to manufacture parts for your Corolla right?

"Sorry sir but we no long offer parts for you "old" 2003 Corolla. You should just consider purchasing a new one........every year."

Is there a current browser that won't run on Windows 98? MS just extended support until 2006.

kingtj
Jan 29, 2004, 08:29 PM
I'm personally very curious to know if Apple is making any attempts to resolve issues with the windowmanager daemon freezing up on G5 systems?

I've been having random problems for quite a while now with my dual 2.0Ghz G5 system where the GUI will suddenly freeze up, but the mouse pointer is still moveable. (Depending on where you move it, it may change to the spinning beach ball.) The dock doesn't respond and you can't click on anything. The only way out seems to be holding down the power button and powering it off.

Here's where it gets interesting though: When this occurs, the machine isn't really crashed. You can still ssh into it from another PC on the LAN and use the command prompt. Any files or printers it was sharing are still accessible from other systems too. At least, that is, until it decides it's time to switch to the screen saver. At that point, the screen goes black and the machine totally crashes.

Alternately (but far less often), I get a situation where the screen just suddenly goes blank and the system is completely non-responsive. If you let it sit this way instead of powering it off and back on right away - you hear the fans steadily increase in speed until they're all running full speed. (One time, it did this when all I did was click to open up a folder on my desktop. No other apps were running!)

I know I'm not the only one with this issue either. There's a big thread on the Apple forums about this - and a number of us have identical problems. One guy ssh'd into his G5 when the GUI froze like this and discovered the "windowmanager" process was displayed as stuck. He tried to kill and restart it, but killing it just crashed the system completely, requiring a hard power off to reset it.

Calls in to Apple on this issue haven't resulted in any real solutions, so far. (One guy is getting a replacement video card, but we all doubt that's the issue. If the card was bad, why would the display change upon killing the window manager process? Also, if that turns out to be the culprit, ATI must have a LOT of defective cards out there. Some of us have Radeon 9800 Pro's and others have the 9600 Pro's and we're all getting the same issue.)

At the risk of this getting too far off topic, has anyone else here experienced any of this? I never remember noticing it on my G5 until after I did things like upgrade to 10.3.2 - but I can't say for certain when it started. I'm almost positive it got worse right after I installed the Adobe Creative Suite one evening - but it's hard to understand why that would have made a difference.


Originally posted by mkjellman
just checked the seed note...there are quite a few problems. This will be the first seed since the Panther seeds came out that I am going to skip. I am not going to be specific so i don't violate the ADC rules but it seems to go backwards....many of the problems were in the first builds of Panther if i remember correctly.

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Glial
Jaquar is an "old system"?

But you do expect Toyota to manufacture parts for your Corolla right?

"Sorry sir but we no long offer parts for you "old" 2003 Corolla. You should just consider purchasing a new one........every year."

Is there a current browser that won't run on Windows 98? MS just extended support until 2006.

Toyota and Apple continue to make the parts but they don't make automatically provide parts anymore to improve the vehicle at no extra cost.

Safari still works in 10.2 just not the new one. It's the age old envy of the new product.

WM.
Jan 29, 2004, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by kingtj
I'm personally very curious to know if Apple is making any attempts to resolve issues with the windowmanager daemon freezing up on G5 systems?
Firmware Update 5.1.4 (the only one that's been released for download) doesn't help at all?

Other than that, I *shrug*...

WM

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by WM.
Not sure if you know this already, but this is a new, system-wide feature in Panther.

WM

Actually what you are referring to is typing the name of a file in list view. The person you are quoted is referring to a pop down menu which Safari does not let you type into like IE has for what seems like a decade. If Apple is adding the ability to tab to buttons and drop down menus I would think they would also add the ability to type to find the selection in a drop down menu.

jcshas
Jan 29, 2004, 09:12 PM
Safari 1.2? I have but one wish...I just want a bookmarks column, a drawer, or something, that will allow me to view all of my bookmarks while I'm surfing. Sort of like they did with the new movable window drawer in iCal...I know, you can open up a separate tab and see all of your bookmarks on one page, but it's a pain in the arse having to switch back to it every time I want to select one of my bookmarks. Please Apple, are you listening?

MacBandit
Jan 29, 2004, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by jcshas
Safari 1.2? I have but one wish...I just want a bookmarks column, a drawer, or something, that will allow me to view all of my bookmarks while I'm surfing. Sort of like they did with the new movable window drawer in iCal...I know, you can open up a separate tab and see all of your bookmarks on one page, but it's a pain in the arse having to switch back to it every time I want to select one of my bookmarks. Please Apple, are you listening?

Do you have .Mac? If you do you can do this.

I just have all my bookmarks in the bookmarks menu like I would any other browser.

Messiatosh
Jan 29, 2004, 09:36 PM
Maybe I am being simplistic about this, in my quest to pose a solution to a problem-which it really is.

Share (In this case market share in the PC industry)

1. The part (usually an iron or steel plate) of a plow which
cuts the ground at the bottom of a furrow; a plowshare.

2. The part which opens the ground for the reception of the
seed, in a machine for sowing seed. --Knight.

Ok, I just got finished reading the business week cover article about Steve Jobs and the iPod. The article frames this digital media craze as Steve's quest for Mac market share redemption, the iPod being his second chance to do things the right way.

I still think he could succede on his first one, the Mac's marketshare is not at a total loss. The article says it hovers around 3% or less but is made up of a rabidly loyal base (us) that keep on coming back for more innovation. They see Apple's only potential threat to this market (us again) would be a lack of innovation. I agree, however I also think that there really is a simple way to solve the freaking market share "crisis" in the media's mind-Once and for all.

The ****FACE Macintosh! A complete piece of ****, **** job. Something so terribly ill equipped to even be called a Macintosh by our standards, something so cheap it would possibly ship with the same components Dell uses! Why not? More people would buy it, because it would cost 500 dollars!

Here's what it could be:

A G4 at 800 Mhz
iLife
Apple Suite (Office)
Safari
The usual software bla bla...

Here's what it wont be: A digital hub
One firewire port
No wireless
No LCD
No R&D on design (who needs that right? Certainly not PC people)
Nothing more than a CD-RW drive

Price her at $499 and have it come in beige and black-Bingo

One crap ass **** face piece of ****-but it would sell by the truckloads, and it wouldnt matter if Best Buy, Circuit City, or any of those places sold it. Oh, you say, "but people would get a bad impression of Apple!" Not a problem, they have years of media bashing and ignorant sales people/next door neighbors that have already done that. It would look like crap and get broken in the stores? So does everyone else's computers and hardware though. Make it a tough machine, no frills, but maybe just bare bones enough to give Apple the same profit it makes on an iPod-say $50 bucks.

Market share would go up, no doubt.

"But this is a stupid idea, its not a good one or Apple would have done it already." Heres the catch buddy! Outsource it to be produced and shipped by HP or someone...call it the HCrap or HPac or something.

CLONE THE OS X OS ON A SINGLE TYPE OF PC CLONE!

Do I hear 10% knocking at our door, 10% never felt so dirty...So good.

People want ****, give them **** but dont let them know its Apple----Until they start it up.....Honestly, how many PC losers actually TRY out their machine before they buy it anyway? "Hey honey, this one can get on the internet for just under 500 bucks."

"Ok, I like it too honey, and it looks like the Johnson's one too."

"Yup, sure does, and also the Guererro's...and the.....my office has one just like this and it does everything I need...."

Ahh, all while Apple takes this market share money and dumps it into R&D to make the real, productive, and creative users more products that are actually worthy of being sold directly from Apple..

Nermal
Jan 29, 2004, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Actually what you are referring to is typing the name of a file in list view. The person you are quoted is referring to a pop down menu which Safari does not let you type into like IE has for what seems like a decade. If Apple is adding the ability to tab to buttons and drop down menus I would think they would also add the ability to type to find the selection in a drop down menu.

I'd like to be able to type into a dropdown too. Especially on the XE.com currency converter, in IE I could press N five times to get to New Zealand, but in Safari I have to manually scroll down and find it.

doogle
Jan 29, 2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by New Guy
I'm still holding out for the ability to drag tabs around a window (to reorder them), out of a window (to spawn a new window) or between windows. It just seems a logical extension of the Tabbed interface metaphor.

Craig


...absolutely New Guy i have quite dumbly tried to drag tabs out of windows because it feels like they should!


--
...bring Home folder to ipod!

Engagebot
Jan 29, 2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
The OS does handle a bad program gracefully it allows the program to crash and quit without affecting any other running programs.

I agree.

Apple doesnt have any control over crappy code that other people write. But crashing apps rarely ever mess with OSX or other apps.

sdf
Jan 29, 2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Actually what you are referring to is typing the name of a file in list view. The person you are quoted is referring to a pop down menu which Safari does not let you type into like IE has for what seems like a decade. If Apple is adding the ability to tab to buttons and drop down menus I would think they would also add the ability to type to find the selection in a drop down menu.

No, he's right. In Panther, you can start typing into any menu including drop down system menus and popup menus.

You really shouldn't correct people before checking your facts.

I do agree that being able to tab to tabs and menus would be good, but typing into a popup menu is already available.

beatle888
Jan 29, 2004, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by mainemike
Would be curious to see if others have the same problem I am having with Safari (1.1).

Go to U2's website (www.U2.com) and choose the flash version of their site. Does all of the navigation and info fully load in Safari for you? I can never get this to work and have to switch back to IE, where it does work with no probs.

Anyway.....

didnt work for me either...i submitted a report.

Engagebot
Jan 29, 2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by mclosers
I hope apple reads this....
anyways how about an option in safari to alway open all links in a new tab rather than having to right click(or control click for you fools without a logitech mx700[best mouse ever made in my opinion]) anyways there should be multiple variations on the same concept like clicking a link opens it in a new window(instead of new tab) and maybe a key to hold down while clicking to open the link in a new tab instead of the same window, thus allowing people with tons of mice buttons(not sure about tense of mouse there) to click one button to open a link in a tab. This is a minor thing but would put safari light years(ok maybe .00001 light years) ahead of the competition and would help out lazy people all over the world

I got that mouse/keyboard combo at the end of the summer. The scroll wheel stopped working last week... Not like its been dragged around in my PB bag or anything, it just sits on my desk with my PC. Kind of sucky for a $100 mouse/keyboard.

beatle888
Jan 29, 2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Do you have .Mac? If you do you can do this.

I just have all my bookmarks in the bookmarks menu like I would any other browser.

actually you dont need a .mac account. just open the bookmark window and select all your folders and drop them into the bookmark menu folder at the top of the list...it should be the second listing down under the collections column.

WM.
Jan 29, 2004, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by sdf
No, he's right. In Panther, you can start typing into any menu including drop down system menus and popup menus.

You really shouldn't correct people before checking your facts.

I do agree that being able to tab to tabs and menus would be good, but typing into a popup menu is already available.
:) Yes, and I suspect that this was added as a result of the Safari team pestering the Cocoa/Aqua/whatever people to get it added. Judging by Dave Hyatt's blog, he's recognized that people want better forms navigation, so a while before Panther was released he mentioned something about wanting to make pop-up menus more easily navigable (a la IE). I remember that in the comments on that blog entry quite a few people mentioned combo boxes, like you see all over the place in Watson, but he didn't seem too hot on those, so I think he must've used the weight of the Safari team to get this added to the OS. Oh, and later he publicly announced that there would be tabbing to form elements, IIRC.

I think there have been a fair number of technologies already that the Safari team developed that have since been integrated into the core OS, or that have been developed for system-wide use as a result of the Safari team not wanting to do them on their own. (Progressive image loading, perhaps? I'm not a developer--maybe someone who is can chime in here.) And the Safari people wouldn't want to re-implement them for Jaguar--where those features/APIs aren't available--so I think that may be a major reason why Safari seems to be locked to a specific OS version. What's more, I don't think WebKit is actually included in the application package anymore--I think Safari just links to it, and the only Safari-specific features are things like preferences, the download features, bookmarks, the UI, etc. WebKit probably requires some features in Panther, so I don't think it's entirely reasonable to ask for an important system framework--which it is--to be made available for use on the older OS version. Safari is not just a browser, whatever competitive consequences that may imply...

FWIW
WM

dguisinger
Jan 29, 2004, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Photorun
I'd love a feature on MacRumors where if someone votes a story as negative they'd need to explain WHY they voted negative. Excepting peecee trolls I can't see why someone voted negative on this story.

Sometimes I have hit negative thinking I'm going to view negative comments. If they are like me thats why positive stories get negatives....

razorme
Jan 29, 2004, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by dguisinger
Sometimes I have hit negative thinking I'm going to view negative comments. If they are like me thats why positive stories get negatives....

I don't understand the point of the positive/negative thing. All it does is generate irrelevant posts on "why did someone vote negative?" (and irrelevant replies like the one you are reading!)

Can someone clue me in on the point?

Swift
Jan 30, 2004, 12:07 AM
Doesn't anybody else want alphabetization of URLs, by clicking on the bar above the window -- like iTunes and the other iApps? I'd also like to be able to sort a folder's full.

pjamescowie
Jan 30, 2004, 12:27 AM
Although Safari is definitely the browser around for Mac in my opinion, there are still one or two vital additions I'd like to see:

1. The ability to browse from cache once offline - this would be fantastic!

2. The ability to save web pages properly - at the moment, when I save a web page, all I get is a stripped down version of the page

Any seconders?

MacBandit
Jan 30, 2004, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by sdf
No, he's right. In Panther, you can start typing into any menu including drop down system menus and popup menus.

You really shouldn't correct people before checking your facts.

I do agree that being able to tab to tabs and menus would be good, but typing into a popup menu is already available.

No I'm still correct. I know what you are referring to but it can't be done in Safari.

MacBandit
Jan 30, 2004, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by beatle888
actually you dont need a .mac account. just open the bookmark window and select all your folders and drop them into the bookmark menu folder at the top of the list...it should be the second listing down under the collections column.

Uh, yeah that's what I said I do, but it's not what the user was asking for.

MacBandit
Jan 30, 2004, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by pjamescowie
Although Safari is definitely the browser around for Mac in my opinion, there are still one or two vital additions I'd like to see:

1. The ability to browse from cache once offline - this would be fantastic!

2. The ability to save web pages properly - at the moment, when I save a web page, all I get is a stripped down version of the page

Any seconders?

I agree but I just use Pagesucker. Works great.

springerj
Jan 30, 2004, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by Doozer

2. Mousing-over links in Safari does not give you a way to see where you will be taken

Turn on View>Status Bar. you'll get what you're asking for.

Matrix9180
Jan 30, 2004, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by mattroberts
pascalpp and others

I may have missed a previous post for this but You don't need to install safari inhancer to get the debug menu

1- gointo terminal
2- TYPE: defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

Now, if anyone knows a way to cycle through all my tabs, without the mouse, I'd appreciate that. Kind of an Alt-Tab for just Safari tabs? :-)


cheers
m

Due to my NDA I won't officially say whether it's there or not, but...
"I do believe you will probably be able to tab through your tabs in 10.3.3"

Remove I do believe and probably and there's your answer.

Craiger77
Jan 30, 2004, 01:20 AM
2. The ability to save web pages properly - at the moment, when I save a web page, all I get is a stripped down version of the page


Safari really does need to have IE's Save as web archive option, but a work around is to go to Print and then choose Save as PDF instead of printing. This will save the page along with all the graphics.

Matrix9180
Jan 30, 2004, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Agathon
Can anyone say whether they've added an option to open the download manager in a new tab instead of a separate window?

If so, then my email to Apple about this must have worked and I will be a happy camper.
yep, it's there

kingtj
Jan 30, 2004, 01:40 AM
I'm glad you mention this one!
I didn't own my iPod until after I already loaded Panther, and I was rather shocked to find my iPod kept running its battery down while sitting in its charger/dock, just because my G5 went to sleep. That really is poor integration when you consider both devices come from the same company and are supposed to integrate real tightly with each other!

I wondered if this behavior was the same in Jaguar, but I guess from what you're saying - it was.... Can't believe they didn't fix this aleady.


Originally posted by fabsgwu
Just to throw something else on the pile of negatives for Panther, Jag too for that matter; iPod management.

It may not be that big of an issue, but when an iPod is connected to the Mac, when the computer goes to sleep, the ipod stays connected and "awake," only now it's not being charged--so you're left with a drained battery, not to mention unnecessary charge-drain cycles. Also, sometimes when the ipod is connected, it doesn't show up as a connected drive (even though I have it set as a firewire hard disk).

I HOPE they address this issue, as well as the many networking issues discussed in this thread. I know a lot of the problems come from Windows complications (windows networking isn't a savior by any means), Apple really needs to pin down these basic OS issues before moving on to the more sexy updates.

OS X is great to use and work with, but it has it's own quarks. I suppose it is a young OS, relatively speaking, but I hope the Apple developers really polish Panther before charging another buck fifty for an upgrade. :rolleyes:

Matrix9180
Jan 30, 2004, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by sdf
No, he's right. In Panther, you can start typing into any menu including drop down system menus and popup menus.

You really shouldn't correct people before checking your facts.

I do agree that being able to tab to tabs and menus would be good, but typing into a popup menu is already available.

But NOT for popup menus in SAFARI on WEBSITES. Which is what the person was talking about. Funny you would gripe about checking facts before correcting someone and you yourself should have checked your facts.

beatle888
Jan 30, 2004, 01:51 AM
i just did it....i selected a pop up menu here at macrumors then typed the popup menu selection i wanted to select.

MacBandit
Jan 30, 2004, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by beatle888
i just did it....i selected a pop up menu here at macrumors then typed the popup menu selection i wanted to select.

Seems to work but not every where. Though it is handy now that I know it is working in Safari. Now I just need to be able to tab to the pop up so that I don't have to use the mouse to select it.

zync
Jan 30, 2004, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by dwsolberg
I'm most excited about the network browsing. Hopefully, they change it back to the way it was in 10.2.x.

(In 10.3.x you need to browse through the Finder to load a server. Then you CAN'T disconnect easily except by shutting off the computer. That's bad for us 'book users. The only current way around this is knowing the direct IP address of the server.)

Yes, that is incredibly annoying! I also hope that in Safari they've finally made it able to save images from it's temp instead of having to redownload them in order to save them...that's a major pain in the ass when you download a lot of images and you can only get dialup because you live outside the city against your will! Anyway, does this annoy anyone else? I love everything else about Safari, especially it's ability to handle ICC profiles, etc. but for me it's pretty much unuseable because of this problem....IE always has problems when it's loading pages especially how it'll blank out if there's a lot of "space" that the pages take up, i.e. (no pun intended) macrumors forums...if it hasn't fully downloaded, scrolling the page may make some parts of it disappear....it's altogether crappy...especially how it'll freeze from time to time while going to certain sites...and the one thing I miss from windows would fix the problem (i.e. each window being a separate task and therefore you can close only the problematic window, however it doesn't always work on windows so Apple could probably rip them off and make it better, like the Alt-Tab functionality in Panther :))...sorry...this was my early morning rant :)

MacBandit
Jan 30, 2004, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by zync
Yes, that is incredibly annoying! I also hope that in Safari they've finally made it able to save images from it's temp instead of having to redownload them in order to save them...that's a major pain in the ass when you download a lot of images and you can only get dialup because you live outside the city against your will! Anyway, does this annoy anyone else? I love everything else about Safari, especially it's ability to handle ICC profiles, etc. but for me it's pretty much unuseable because of this problem....IE always has problems when it's loading pages especially how it'll blank out if there's a lot of "space" that the pages take up, i.e. (no pun intended) macrumors forums...if it hasn't fully downloaded, scrolling the page may make some parts of it disappear....it's altogether crappy...especially how it'll freeze from time to time while going to certain sites...and the one thing I miss from windows would fix the problem (i.e. each window being a separate task and therefore you can close only the problematic window, however it doesn't always work on windows so Apple could probably rip them off and make it better, like the Alt-Tab functionality in Panther :))...sorry...this was my early morning rant :)

Why don't you use Camino or one of the other great 3rd party browser rather than IE if Safari doesn't work for you?

MrSugar
Jan 30, 2004, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by mattroberts
pascalpp and others

I may have missed a previous post for this but You don't need to install safari inhancer to get the debug menu

1- gointo terminal
2- TYPE: defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

Now, if anyone knows a way to cycle through all my tabs, without the mouse, I'd appreciate that. Kind of an Alt-Tab for just Safari tabs? :-)


cheers
m

Cmd + Shift + left and right arrows

=)

-oops sorry, already been answered a few times

superfula
Jan 30, 2004, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by Matrix9180
yep, it's there

No it's not. Download manager is still a separate window

Due to my NDA I won't officially say whether it's there or not, but...
"I do believe you will probably be able to tab through your tabs in 10.3.3"

Remove I do believe and probably and there's your answer.

It's the same key combo as it was in 1.1.1. No need to talk about NDA

deedas
Jan 30, 2004, 04:31 AM
I just hope Safari's speed is fixed soon. Web browsing on Safari has become unbearably slow. I've been using Camino and Firebird for most of my browsing in the past month or so.

sdf
Jan 30, 2004, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by WM.
I remember that in the comments on that blog entry quite a few people mentioned combo boxes, like you see all over the place in Watson, but he didn't seem too hot on those, so I think he must've used the weight of the Safari team to get this added to the OS. Oh, and later he publicly announced that there would be tabbing to form elements, IIRC.


Well, I *am* a developer. :) Mac OS X all the way back to 10.1 (or possibly 10.0) has supported tabbing to buttons and other window elements. Why Safari doesn't support it is a mystery to me.

WebKit is built into 10.3 now. I'm not sure if the APIs for it have been released or not, though. I know at least some other companies have access to them but they might still be under NDA.

Progressive loading of images has been built into the Mac OS since at least 7.6. It's part of QuickTime.

sdf
Jan 30, 2004, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
No I'm still correct. I know what you are referring to but it can't be done in Safari.

Oh, really? I just did it. This is not a difficult thing to check.

[mod. edit - Insult]

superfula
Jan 30, 2004, 04:48 AM
My one complaint from using 1.2 is you can't tab TO combo boxes and continue using the keyboard arrows or letters to select what you want. You have to click on them. For example...best buy's website. You type your zip code in, your address, but the state is in a combo box, which safari won't tab to.

Scottgfx
Jan 30, 2004, 05:02 AM
Originally posted by springerj
Turn on View>Status Bar. you'll get what you're asking for.

Holy Crap!!! I didn't know that!!!

zync
Jan 30, 2004, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by El Capitano
Photorun wrote:


I voted negative because
a) I don't like the "Ability to 'tab' to form elements (buttons, checkboxes, submit buttons)" and am disappointed this isn't an option;
b) this looks like another Safari upgrade that won't be available for Jaguar.

That do you?

First of all How can you not like tabbing to things? Secondly, what does it matter if it's on or off? If you don't use it you won't notice it, unless you like to randomly hit the Tab button or something :)

mac15
Jan 30, 2004, 06:04 AM
nuff said, got Safari working in 10.3.2 :)


http://mac15.ambitiouslemon.com/safari.jpg

ginoledesma
Jan 30, 2004, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by WM.
This already works. There's always a space to the right of the rightmost tab, into which you can drag a link to create a new tab with that link. Once you get enough tabs that the >> overflow menu appears, you can drag links onto that and you'll also get a new tab. At least, that works with links from Safari windows--maybe it doesn't work with links from other apps...?

HTH
WM

The thing is, there's some inconsistency. The computer isn't "mounted" on the desktop per se. Its in the network browser list, so you can't drag it to the trash to disconnect from it, nor is there an option to disconnect through the contextual menu. This is specific to SMB networking I believe, which has led me to get a copy of DAVE instead.

In my wish list is for Mac OS 10.3 to have the option to mount hidden SMB shares. Right now, if a share is hidden, there is absolutely no way to access it from the Finder. Hidden SMB shares are made by appending the $ symbol at the end of the name (e.g. Hidden$ causes it to be hidden from view). The only way to access this is through the command line using smbclient, which, by the way, works 100% for me. Unfortunately, I don't expect everyone, switchers especially who are used to Windows file sharing, to use the smbclient tool to get files from Windows servers.

Yet another is to TOTALLY REVAMP the way we access SMB shares. As it is, Windows has a far superior, and far easier way of sharing/accessing files. It just works "smoothly" and most of the time. I'm sure Apple could think of something easier/better. The Mac OS 9.2 Network Browser was promising, but it didn't feel as "integrated."

Of course, I don't expect all these in the next update, but I'm hoping. :)

hob
Jan 30, 2004, 06:39 AM
so, is this available anywhere to download?? Specifically the 10.3.3 update, or am I going to have to wait for the full release??

mac15
Jan 30, 2004, 07:12 AM
its only avaliable via the SW update which isn't avalaible yet it only just went into beta for ADC members

nexuk
Jan 30, 2004, 08:18 AM
Anyone notice that file searching in the finder seems to be broken in the 10.3.3 seed?

sparkleytone
Jan 30, 2004, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by ginoledesma
In my wish list is for Mac OS 10.3 to have the option to mount hidden SMB shares. Right now, if a share is hidden, there is absolutely no way to access it from the Finder. Hidden SMB shares are made by appending the $ symbol at the end of the name (e.g. Hidden$ causes it to be hidden from view). The only way to access this is through the command line using smbclient, which, by the way, works 100% for me. Unfortunately, I don't expect everyone, switchers especially who are used to Windows file sharing, to use the smbclient tool to get files from Windows servers.

Hidden shares are meant to be hidden, so hopefully you aren't expecting to see them in the Network browser. You do NOT have to use the command line. All you have to do is use the cmd-k Connect To... function like everyone used to do. Then its smb://ip.add.re.ss/share$

encro
Jan 30, 2004, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Stike
Haha, good one ;)
I already tried, and on epson.com all it says there is that the drivers for my printer are in OS X included! ;) So I am back where I started.

This is what you really need. (http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/MacOSX.php3) Improved since the Panther include.

encro
Jan 30, 2004, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by chickengrease16
i am like many users out there that have appreciated the mac and its culture but had to be a PC user for financial reasons until i could afford a mac. and one of the biggest upsets of switching to mac was the lack of support for many keys THAT COME ON THE KEYBOARD! like tab (you cant tab to elements in safari or many other programs with aqua interface), home/end (in ichat especially it bothers me that you cant home/end), and del (flaky in terminal). but this is great news, although they should have had tab-to-elements from the beginning.

home: command-leftarrow
end: command-rightarrow

encro
Jan 30, 2004, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by tacomancini
Any word on when this feature will make it into Panther.

The rumor mill currently states this as a part of 10.3.4

fartheststar
Jan 30, 2004, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by virividox
if 10.3.3 comes by march then we are sure to see a new OS come december, thats if they continue at this rate :D

Well, I'm running 10.2.8 at this time and it's stable. Watching how fast these updates are coming out, I think I'll stay where I am for a while. Some of the programs that Jaguar "Broke" that I have haven't even been fixed yet.

Matrix9180
Jan 30, 2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by superfula
No it's not. Download manager is still a separate window
Misread the question, sorry...



It's the same key combo as it was in 1.1.1. No need to talk about NDA
Actually I was referring to the fact that in Safari1.2 (125) you can actually just hit the tab key to go through your tabs...

Poff
Jan 30, 2004, 10:19 AM
One should be able to double-click on the files right in the download manager, instead of first clicking the magnifying glass to open it´s folder, and then double-clicking the file.

BackInTheSaddle
Jan 30, 2004, 10:53 AM
I hope the new version is less buggy than 1.1.1. I like the overall interface of Safari, but I've had two major problems:

1. A number of sites will not display properly in Safari (even though they do in IE and Netscape).

2. Safari seems to crash regularly on my Macs, and I find myself waiting with the spinning beachball even after a page loads. Just trying to move my cursor to a form field, can take forever with no apparent reason.

Does anyone see the beachball repeatedly while working in Safari? I get this all the time and it gets really frustrating.

billyboy
Jan 30, 2004, 11:25 AM
I would like to see some voice activated functions, like "Load page faster, you ******* just like Camino does."

Rocketman
Jan 30, 2004, 11:27 AM
I just want to ask why this thread had a question mark instead of a newspaper since it is clearly "hard news" and not rumor.

Rocketman

robotrenegade
Jan 30, 2004, 11:45 AM
Bring it on baby!

Tulse
Jan 30, 2004, 11:50 AM
Hey, mac15, do you have a theme running, or is Safari's brushed metal much lighter than before?

JJTiger1
Jan 30, 2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by mac15
nuff said, got Safari working in 10.3.2 :)

{snipped screenshot}

Nice PhotoShop job.

You didn't really expect anyone to fall for that, did you?
=-=
New Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (stretch-wheelbase) released today.
http://www.jeep.com/wrangler/index.html
=-=
JJ

superfula
Jan 30, 2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Matrix9180
Misread the question, sorry...



Actually I was referring to the fact that in Safari1.2 (125) you can actually just hit the tab key to go through your tabs...

I haven't figured out how to just hit the tab key to go through the tabs.

fjleon
Jan 30, 2004, 12:26 PM
Hi i just switched to a powerbook because my pc laptop was getting slow.

I mainly got it because i wanted to play with OSX and i love linux and open source in general.

I would like to know if this new 10.3.3 version has a way to auto arrange files/folders by name just like windows does. It is annoying to keep doing a manual arrange each time i want to find a file.

Another question, is that if there is an improved way to navigate files in Finder?. I would LOVE to be able to type the folder name with auto complete, just like windows and desktops environments in linux do.

I HATE having files and if i type the first letter of one it goes there but it doesn't work right or works with all files all the time.

MacBandit
Jan 30, 2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by fjleon
Hi i just switched to a powerbook because my pc laptop was getting slow.

I mainly got it because i wanted to play with OSX and i love linux and open source in general.

I would like to know if this new 10.3.3 version has a way to auto arrange files/folders by name just like windows does. It is annoying to keep doing a manual arrange each time i want to find a file.

Another question, is that if there is an improved way to navigate files in Finder?. I would LOVE to be able to type the folder name with auto complete, just like windows and desktops environments in linux do.

I HATE having files and if i type the first letter of one it goes there but it doesn't work right or works with all files all the time.

There are folder view option in the view menu. You can also get them by typing command-J.

The dynamic search box at the top right works specifically the way you choose it to. The magnifying glass has a drop down menu with a few choices on where you are searching. Also you can type command-f to get a find box and do a search from there. I've never seen a windows system that was as easy to find files on as the Mac OS so I hope we can work your problems out. I think it must just be because it's new to you.

MongoTheGeek
Jan 30, 2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by fjleon
Hi i just switched to a powerbook because my pc laptop was getting slow.

I mainly got it because i wanted to play with OSX and i love linux and open source in general.

I would like to know if this new 10.3.3 version has a way to auto arrange files/folders by name just like windows does. It is annoying to keep doing a manual arrange each time i want to find a file.

Another question, is that if there is an improved way to navigate files in Finder?. I would LOVE to be able to type the folder name with auto complete, just like windows and desktops environments in linux do.

I HATE having files and if i type the first letter of one it goes there but it doesn't work right or works with all files all the time.

That has been an option for a long long time. Every version of X I remember Perhaps OS9.

Apple-J for view options. click on the "Keep arranged by" and then select how you want it arranged. it is also at the bottom of the view menu

MacBandit
Jan 30, 2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by BackInTheSaddle
I hope the new version is less buggy than 1.1.1. I like the overall interface of Safari, but I've had two major problems:

1. A number of sites will not display properly in Safari (even though they do in IE and Netscape).

2. Safari seems to crash regularly on my Macs, and I find myself waiting with the spinning beachball even after a page loads. Just trying to move my cursor to a form field, can take forever with no apparent reason.

Does anyone see the beachball repeatedly while working in Safari? I get this all the time and it gets really frustrating.

There are still some incompatibilities with some sites but at this point it's more of a matter of bad code on the site or browser specific code. I expect compatibility with this will probably improve in future versions of Safari.

I don't have any instability problems or spinning beachballs with Safari. I regularly have 30 or 40 tabs opened at once as well and have never seen a slow down with it. You may have a loaded cache or some temp files that need clearing. Also permissions could cause it as well.

gregorypierce
Jan 30, 2004, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by mkjellman
just checked the seed note...there are quite a few problems. This will be the first seed since the Panther seeds came out that I am going to skip. I am not going to be specific so i don't violate the ADC rules but it seems to go backwards....many of the problems were in the first builds of Panther if i remember correctly.

I'm in that boat as well. There are just too many issues for me at the moment.

mac15
Jan 30, 2004, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by JJTiger1
Nice PhotoShop job.

You didn't really expect anyone to fall for that, did you?
=-=
New Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (stretch-wheelbase) released today.
http://www.jeep.com/wrangler/index.html
=-=
JJ


hardly, its real http://funmac.com/showthread.php?threadid=4992

AppleMatt
Jan 30, 2004, 04:55 PM
I agree with the poster who mentioned about how important the updates to graphics, OpenGL and games are.

Currently there are a number of ongoing bugs (such as solid screen colour on resolution switching and slow nVidia texture purging) that desperately need to be improved, along with general improvements which will help give all games the boost they need.

It's (OpenGL implementation) a major weakness, IMO, of Mac OS X currently. Also nVidia could do with getting in gear driver wise.

Some people vote negative because they do not like the ADC NDA being broken with information like this. I'm not too bothered, makes for interesting reading/speculation. I don't see why they should have to explain themselves in a post, everyone has an opinion.

AppleMatt

jacg
Jan 30, 2004, 05:50 PM
I hope Apple fixes printing with this update. I have problems with a usb-Parallel adapter and an airport linked inkjet. Have tried every possible fix but the USB cables need to be plugged out and in and inkjet printing often just stops half way (through a nice piece of photo paper).

I agree with a previous poster; printing is a mess. Why can't they reduce the number of anoying windows that open and close. And if you've more than one printer, why not combine them into one big status window/app, combined with the print utility as well?

BTW my HP 1220c has stopped twice while I have typed this. If they must release buggy, poorly tested upgrades, at least make it possible to downgrade back to, say, 10.3.1 which worked fine.

El Capitano
Jan 30, 2004, 06:13 PM
Zync wrote:
First of all How can you not like tabbing to things? Secondly, what does it matter if it's on or off? If you don't use it you won't notice it, unless you like to randomly hit the Tab button or something
I like tabbing to things... but my definition of "things" may vary from yours.
I complete text boxes using the keyboard. Therefore I expect to be able to tab between them using the keyboard.
I complete checkboxes using the mouse. Therefore a keyboard control is irrelevant to me.
That's just how I see it. You don't have to agree with me.

WM.
Jan 30, 2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by ginoledesma
The thing is, there's some inconsistency. The computer isn't "mounted" on the desktop per se. Its in the network browser list, so you can't drag it to the trash to disconnect from it, nor is there an option to disconnect through the contextual menu.
You can't drag the server name--not the volume name--to the trash? This works for AFP, but:
This is specific to SMB networking I believe,
I'm perfectly willing to believe that, but do me a favor and try dragging the server name to the trash first. :)
which has led me to get a copy of DAVE instead.

In my wish list is for Mac OS 10.3 to have the option to mount hidden SMB shares. Right now, if a share is hidden, there is absolutely no way to access it from the Finder. Hidden SMB shares are made by appending the $ symbol at the end of the name (e.g. Hidden$ causes it to be hidden from view). The only way to access this is through the command line using smbclient, which, by the way, works 100% for me. Unfortunately, I don't expect everyone, switchers especially who are used to Windows file sharing, to use the smbclient tool to get files from Windows servers.

Yet another is to TOTALLY REVAMP the way we access SMB shares. As it is, Windows has a far superior, and far easier way of sharing/accessing files. It just works "smoothly" and most of the time. I'm sure Apple could think of something easier/better. The Mac OS 9.2 Network Browser was promising, but it didn't feel as "integrated."

Of course, I don't expect all these in the next update, but I'm hoping. :)
Yeah, I feel for you, even though I haven't even used SMB yet. Certainly things have gotten better since 10.0/10.1, though, and I think we have to expect that they'll continue to do so. Plus, at least for SMB, Apple is highly dependent on the development of Samba, which they have little-to-no control over (although I'm sure they could have some developers contribute to it if they wanted). OTOH, Panther with its newer version of Samba is, at least in some cases, worse than Jaguar with its older version, so something else must be up...

WM

coolsoldier
Jan 30, 2004, 06:29 PM
I would like to see things like tabbing to checkboxes work the same way in Safari that they work in every other OS X program. That is, if you turn on "full keyboard access" you can tab to anything, otherwise you only tab to fields where you can type.

splashman
Jan 30, 2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by macmax
I FEEL SICK, i am going to bed now, i emailed that sucker

i just said , oh my God, stupidity is among subhumans too.

For those who don't know, the guy who supposedly gutted his G5 to put in PC components eventually admitted it was a hoax, using an empty case. He only did it to get a rise out of a friend of his; had no idea it would be publicized. Poor kid got hundreds of nasty notes.

Personally, I think this hoax and the response to it is the funniest darn thing I've seen in a long, long time. The way people were whining, you'd think their own pets had been tortured to death.

splashman
Jan 30, 2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Aqua OS X
please, say "son of a bitch."

We'll all much much happier :D

I and the moderators would be much happier if you actually complied with the forum rules (http://forums.macrumors.com/announcement.php?s=&forumid=4). Keep the profanity to yourself, please.

Thank you.

vrapan
Jan 30, 2004, 08:33 PM
It seems to not work with anything else except if you choose to search in the Home folder. But Safari seems much more responsive and I love the resume functionality.

jero
Jan 30, 2004, 09:13 PM
hooray for safari update.

~Shard~
Jan 30, 2004, 11:08 PM
Can't wait for the Safari update - I love using it and an update will be great!

zync
Jan 31, 2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by mattroberts
pascalpp and others

I may have missed a previous post for this but You don't need to install safari inhancer to get the debug menu

1- gointo terminal
2- TYPE: defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

Now, if anyone knows a way to cycle through all my tabs, without the mouse, I'd appreciate that. Kind of an Alt-Tab for just Safari tabs? :-)


cheers
m

Yeah, you know what'd be really nice? If exposé actually worked with Safari! :D

Originally posted by mclosers
not sure about tense of mouse there

You don't have to be sure, nouns don't have a tense :) I think you meant that you weren't sure of the plural form of mouse...yes, it's mice...

ultimind
Jan 31, 2004, 12:10 AM
Can any people who have installed the newly seeded 10.3.3 tell us if it truely is any better? (No specifics cuz i know you're not allowed) but just in general...is this a positive update or a not-so-positive update ala 10.2.8 (original) release?

zync
Jan 31, 2004, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Why don't you use Camino or one of the other great 3rd party browser rather than IE if Safari doesn't work for you?

Cause IE works well enough for me :) I was always an IE fan actually, I prefer it on windows however (sadly)...but if Safari would just add a few things then IE would probably be deleted, or at least off my dock :)

zync
Jan 31, 2004, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by MongoTheGeek
That has been an option for a long long time. Every version of X I remember Perhaps OS9.

Apple-J for view options. click on the "Keep arranged by" and then select how you want it arranged. it is also at the bottom of the view menu

Yes, even OS9....probably 7&8 too....actually I can't see any GUI not having this....

Originally posted by El Capitano
Zync wrote:

I like tabbing to things... but my definition of "things" may vary from yours.
I complete text boxes using the keyboard. Therefore I expect to be able to tab between them using the keyboard.
I complete checkboxes using the mouse. Therefore a keyboard control is irrelevant to me.
That's just how I see it. You don't have to agree with me.

No, I agree...that's pretty much how I tab to things...My point, however, was that you can still use the mouse to check checkboxes or you can tab and hit space (usually anyway)....either way it's pretty much seamless (i.e. it does it's job without you noticing). I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was asking a question :)


One other thing that would be nice: having a choice between 1. saving all things in the same folder (desktop is a folder BTW) and 2. prompting where to save each file like IE...

MacBandit
Jan 31, 2004, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by zync
Yeah, you know what'd be really nice? If exposé actually worked with Safari! :D
..................

What do you mean by this? I don't know how that persons question or the answer has anything to do with Exposé which works fine with Safari for me anyway.

dekator
Jan 31, 2004, 04:17 AM
I'm still looking for a decent cookie management in Safari. Why, far from being able to filter cookies you can't even tell it to ask you before accepting a cookie. In that respect, Safari is way behind everything else in the market, even IE and by a long shot. It's again Apple to decreeing 'what is needed' and what not. Choice!

Rower_CPU
Jan 31, 2004, 04:35 AM
Originally posted by zync
Yeah, you know what'd be really nice? If exposé actually worked with Safari! :D

Whaa?!?

As for cycling through tabs: Command + shift + left/right arrow

AppleMatt
Jan 31, 2004, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
What do you mean by this? I don't know how that persons question or the answer has anything to do with Exposé which works fine with Safari for me anyway.

Type in an address you've previously visited such as macrumors.com and wait for the drop-down of all macrumors.com addresses you've visited. Now activate Expose.

It's an Apple confirmed bug and they are working on a fix.

AppleMatt

Matrix9180
Jan 31, 2004, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by superfula
I haven't figured out how to just hit the tab key to go through the tabs.

Go into System Preferences, and under Keyboard & Mouse, Keyboard Shortcuts tab, make sure turn on full keyboard access is checked... and this is only on Safari 1.2, which AFAIK only works on 10.3.3...

As for the guy posting the pic of Safari 1.2 on 10.3.2, it's not very hard to right click Safari, select View Package Contents and edit the version strings in info.plist ;)

fjleon
Jan 31, 2004, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
There are folder view option in the view menu. You can also get them by typing command-J.

The dynamic search box at the top right works specifically the way you choose it to. The magnifying glass has a drop down menu with a few choices on where you are searching. Also you can type command-f to get a find box and do a search from there. I've never seen a windows system that was as easy to find files on as the Mac OS so I hope we can work your problems out. I think it must just be because it's new to you.

Ok i am happy to see that arranging works as expected. I am still not happy about the lack of a bar i can type and autocomplete folders and files (perhaps some extension available to do this?) and the file selecting bug which happens when typing the first letter of a file, for example i have 3 files, Desktop, DFD.ppt, and Default.htm, hitting d or shift-d takes me to the first one but doesn't cycle between them