New laptops are a bust; PC alternatives?

[mason.kramer]

Ok, well I was waiting on this product refresh to pull the trigger on a portable device to complement my mac pro at home. I think the new offerings are so weak - and the price so high - that I'm looking at alternatives in the PC world. Obviously, I'd never use Vista - instead I'll install Ubuntu or one of the newer user-friendly Linux distros. I've been using Debian on a file server for years now and I just installed Ubuntu on a second partition of this machine to get used to the desktop environment (Kubuntu, in fact). Now, I mainly need the laptop for when I travel to conferences, to take notes during presentations or to give presentations, and for google maps while I'm out of town. I'll keep the laptop synced with my home computer using a homebrew "cloud" that consists of a series of rsync acron/cron jobs to my personal webserver.

I'm thinking something in the 700-1000 range would be more than enough juice, and please, please do not link me to the MacBook "White". (What a ****ing insult.)

Has anyone been doing research on cheaper PC alternatives? Portable, battery life, heat, noise, option not to buy a bundled Microsoft product are my main concerns now.

Cheers in advance :)

[Dybbuk]

Check out the Sony SR. A bit out of your budget, but IMO the best MacBook alternative:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644570898&parentCategoryId=16154

[Peabody]

Might I suggest you go to an appropriate forum to ask such questions?

Dissing the new Mac offerings, then asking for PC alternatives at MacRumors might not be your best choice for getting solid, unbiased advice.

Oh, and I don't have a clue as to what to buy. Sorry, but I don't own any PC notebooks...

:)

[Pedromiguel20]

You are only punishing yourself

[fuzzycuffs]

HP dv3500t if you're looking for a competitor for the new Macbook.

In fact you can get a faster proc (with more 6MB L2 cache), more ram (3gb is a free upgrade right now), 9300M GS 512mb dedicated graphics card, and a firewire port and fingerprint reader.

All for the same price.

It's a little thicker, but actually a little lighter than the Macbook.

These are the two machines I'm cross shopping now. I too am not an OS adherent; I can do what I need to in any operating system.

[iShater]

Either give the guy appropriate advice or look elsewhere for God's sake.

Sony seems to be on top of the ultra-portable laptops design wise, but most likely will not be in the price range your are looking for.

[Eluzion]

There are no alternatives to the new MacBooks. ;)

Seriously though, I wish PC manufacturers would design some better looking notebooks. The only one that I think looks decent is the Voodoo Envy, but that's in the mid $2,000 range.

[NT1440]

hey, if your happy with windows, more power to ya.

Mayb a nice dell? (is that an oxymoron? i kid i kid)

[mason.kramer]

Check out the Sony SR. A bit out of your budget, but IMO the best MacBook alternative:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644570898&parentCategoryId=16154

Thanks Dybbuk, but yes, that is out of the price range. If I were going to spend that much, I'd get a MB instead. Also, it's bundled with Vista.

To Peabody: From my point of view, this is the perfect place. I still appreciate the sensibilities of the mac community, why would I take the advice of someone who has bad enough taste to own a PC? :D.

To Pedromiguel: Honestly, there is not much difference between a kunbutu distribution and a mac. Both are POSIX certified UNIX-like operating systems. Both operate the hardware. Both respond to the same terminal commands. Both have firefox. The only things I'll miss in the switch are Xcode and the Mail.app/iCal/Address Book stuff. Oh, and Quicksilver. Damn. Maybe I will be punishing myself....But the price spread between a PC and a comparably-specced Mac has just gotten too big for me to stomach.

[j26]

An MSI wind/Advent 4211 (http://www.msimobile.com/nblist.aspx?series=White)?

A few simple mods will make it a damned good machine, and they're cheap and very portable. Not a performance machine, but it works very well.


have a look at http://forums.msiwind.net for some advice on mods



P.S.(there's an interesting section on OSX;))

[iShater]

Check out the Sony SR. A bit out of your budget, but IMO the best MacBook alternative:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644570898&parentCategoryId=16154

Hey look, this has FireWire and it has an express card. :eek:

[NT1440]

Hey look, this has FireWire and it has an express card. :eek:

better yet, VISTA! woo hoo!

scathing sarcasm works both ways man.

[iShater]

better yet, VISTA! woo hoo!

scathing sarcasm works both ways man.

I am sure you can downgrade to XP or get Ubuntu on it :p

[NT1440]

I am sure you can downgrade to XP or get Ubuntu on it :p

lol yes an upgrade to xp will do nicely:p ;)





(note: before I recieve anymore of those stupid fanboy comments, im joking here, im no vista fan at all as im running it right now, but I can see that some people might not have a problem with it.)

[iShater]

lol yes an upgrade to xp will do nicely:p ;)





(note: before I recieve anymore of those stupid fanboy comments, im joking here, im no vista fan at all as im running it right now, but I can see that some people might not have a problem with it.)

:eek: moi?






Disclaimer: I use systems of all kinds, fanboy of nobody. I just like my systems to work. :D

[mkrishnan]

I'm thinking something in the 700-1000 range would be more than enough juice, and please, please do not link me to the MacBook "White". (What a ****ing insult.)

Besides price, what are your priorities in terms of... CPU horsepower, video capabilities, size, weight, aesthetics, storage space, optical drive, quality / durability, etc?

All that would really help to know what to look at.

[NT1440]

:eek: moi?






Disclaimer: I use systems of all kinds, fanboy of nobody. I just like my systems to work. :D

no you havent called me a fanboy, ppl like wild bill (the dude with the "mobile fail" avatar and other super sarcastic comments towards apple in his sig :rolleyes:) and mosx. Both of whom seem to be incredibly anti apple for some reason.

To each his own tho.


TS, have you thought of a toshiba satelite? im using one now and I can say other than being plastic and running vista, its a good machine. This one cost me $450 (note it has turion processors)

[mason.kramer]

Besides price, what are your priorities in terms of... CPU horsepower, video capabilities, size, weight, aesthetics, storage space, optical drive, quality / durability, etc?


From my original post,

Portable, battery life, heat, noise, option not to buy a bundled Microsoft product are my main concerns now.

I thought that these concerns, plus the price range that I mention, would have served to narrow the field. But adding to that, weight and a smaller form factor would be important factors (in my opinion, when it comes to laptops, less is more). More specifically,
*13.3" or smaller
*At least a DVD burning drive
*I'd be willing to spend a little more for a computer with a bluray drive that can connect to a HDCP TV
*At least 3 hours of battery life; 5 hours would be better
*I really, really don't want to buy something with a bundled MS product, if at all possible
*2.0ghz+
*2GB RAM+

[mason.kramer]

An MSI wind/Advent 4211 (http://www.msimobile.com/nblist.aspx?series=White)?

A few simple mods will make it a damned good machine, and they're cheap and very portable. Not a performance machine, but it works very well.


have a look at http://forums.msiwind.net for some advice on mods



P.S.(there's an interesting section on OSX;))

j26 - YES!! This looks really interesting! Thanks for the link. Bookmarked…I'll let you know if I get one. Do you have one?

[Beric]

BTO tx2500z series (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&series_name=tx2500z_series&a1=Category&v1=Mobility)
• Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
• AMD Turion(TM) X2 Dual-Core Mobile Processor RM-70 (2.0GHz) (more if you want - to 2.4 Ghz.)
• 12.1" diagonal WXGA High-Definition HP BrightView Widescreen (1280 x 800) w/Integrated Touch-screen
• FREE Upgrade to 3GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm) from 1GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• ATI Radeon(TM) HD 3200 Graphics
• $50 OFF upgrade to 320GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive from 250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
• HP Imprint Finish (Echo) + Microphone + Webcam
• Wireless-N Card with Bluetooth
• SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
$1,078.99

BTO dv3500t series (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=Mobility&series_name=dv3500t_series)
• Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
• Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor P7350 (2.0GHz) (more powerful available)
• 13.3" diagonal WXGA High-Definition HP BrightView Widescreen Display (1280 x 800)
• FREE Upgrade to 3GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm) from 2GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9300M GS
• $50 OFF 320GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
• HP Imprint Finish (Intersect) + Microphone + Webcam + Fingerprint Reader
• HP Color Matching Keyboard
• Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
• Integrated 56K Modem
• SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
• 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
$1,103.99

Seems like some pretty solid and well-priced choices to me. Myself, I'm looking at a $1299 HP 15" MBP killer, but I have more patience, and will wait until at least the next Apple notebook revision before deciding to buy a PC.

[j26]

j26 - YES!! This looks really interesting! Thanks for the link. Bookmarked…I'll let you know if I get one. Do you have one?

Yes, I got one recently and find it ideal for moving about. It can run a (wide) variety of OS's with no hassle, and the while the keyboard is not full size, tbh I find it better than my Macbook one. I've upgraded to a 320 gig HD and 2 gigs ram for feck all.

It works really well with the mods I've implemented so far (cough!), although I still need to sort out the wifi (cheap mod) and audio (to be sorted soon apparently).

[RedTomato]

Well, seems like MSI Wind is the one for you. (Plus OSX on it maybe?)

I know you don't want to buy a new whitebook, but have you considered a refurb SR macbook?

I love mine, and at 2.2 ghz with 4GB ram (very cheap at the moment) and a 320GB HD, it's faster than the new whitebook (and cheap alu MB too) , with more RAM and more diskspace than all of the alu MB and MBPs, and cheaper than all of them. And it has FW goodness.

If you're lucky and get a good price on a 2.4 ghz whitebook (or blackbook for super rarity value) then with extra RAM and HD, it will be just as fast as any of the new MB or even MBPs.

x redTomato

[mason.kramer]

I'm also looking at http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=76, but it really doesn't seem like a lot of bang for the buck, considering that there's no windows tax. It really seems like they're missing out on the buying power discount of a Dell-sized company.

Re: RedTomato, you're right about the refurb deals, they're better than anything available new.

Regarding OSX on my new PC, i certainly wouldn't think of doing that, because that would be illegal! :eek:

j26, thanks for your advice about the mods. That's really good to hear ;)

[macbooker15]

no you havent called me a fanboy, ppl like wild bill (the dude with the "mobile fail" avatar and other super sarcastic comments towards apple in his sig :rolleyes:) and mosx. Both of whom seem to be incredibly anti apple for some reason.

To each his own tho.


TS, have you thought of a toshiba satelite? im using one now and I can say other than being plastic and running vista, its a good machine. This one cost me $450 (note it has turion processors)

Hmmm.....mosx should be here by now! Meh...we have Beric, but its still not quite the same:D. I miss the constant;)

[NT1440]

Hmmm.....mosx should be here by now! Meh...we have Beric, but its still not quite the same:D. I miss the constant;)

lol beric is no where near the level of mosx

beric is a good guy, just a little too money oriented for me (but as a student, he is in the right to consider pricing as heavily as he does)

[Andrew K.]

New laptops are a BUST?

haha okaay but yeah most people on MACRUMORS forums are looking for Mac related products, why don't you go to the PC Forums I'm sure they can help out a lot better, hope you find what ur looking for, I already have and its the new busted macbook! :D

[Ryuukumori]

I'm not sure what kind of PC you might need. Go for an HP. They have some great deals with the same specs and smaller price range (using online coupons).

And are there any PC laptops with backlit keyboards?

[shoulin333]

... get something OSx86 compatible or you will regret it :cool:

[Beric]

lol beric is no where near the level of mosx

beric is a good guy, just a little too money oriented for me (but as a student, he is in the right to consider pricing as heavily as he does)

mosx actually dislikes OS X. I like OS X but dislike both the laptops Apple makes and their prices. mosx also has more years of experience (being alive ;)).

I'm a moderate gamer who also uses a computer for homework/papers ect., and of course web browsing. Because I'm a student, I have limited time I can spend working, and therefore money vs. specs is everything. I don't have the money to pay for design, which is Apple's strength. As such, my ideal Apple is one that focuses on the OS X it makes, not the machines it runs on.

[isaacc7]

I'm following this thread eagerly, I'm not buying any of the new laptops from Apple. Apple has made computers that I won't buy, and that's something... I can't believe it, but I need a windows machine now.

And as someone else said, I've never seen this kind of negativity about a new release from Apple. There have always been complainers, but I've never seen this level of acrimony and refusal to buy the new products. It's safe to say that Apple has screwed up.

Isaac

[heatmiser]

If you're not considering a refurb, I'd get a Thinkpad. You can knock a few hundred dollars off via an ecode through dealigg.com. You'll get a much better value for your money, and a far more professional laptop.

[hogfaninga]

Most people I have talked to (Apple fans) are very disappointed. I think most people (who are honest) were expecting much more and rightfully so considering the price and other factors. I'm sure the ones who just purchased it or about to will make the new Macbook seem like the greatest thing since slice bread, but deep down they know it should of been more at that price point. As far as the looks, I hate the 2-tone, but I can see why some like it. I just feel it makes it look cheap and PC. I thought Apple designers dropped the ball big time with this one. Hopefully they will revisit this sooner rather than later.

[flipperanubi]

a

[NT1440]

Remember, the thing about going with Apple stuff is that Steve Jobs has told you what you want.

He's not offering anything cheaper because you don't want to spend that little.

Spend.. Be happy. Spend more. Be happier. Spend. Buy.

yes, all apple buyers are drooling idiots, we dont buy (or will buy in my case) because of things that apple does better at all. OSX isnt a part of why people buy macs at all either :rolleyes:

[reclusivemonkey]

To Pedromiguel: Honestly, there is not much difference between a kunbutu distribution and a mac.

Meh, depends what you are doing. Trying to do simple video editing and DVD authoring on Ubuntu was what drove me to Mac. That and Quicksilver =]

[mac jones]

Ok Balmer stop it with the shenanigans.

[polaris20]

If you're not considering a refurb, I'd get a Thinkpad. You can knock a few hundred dollars off via an ecode through dealigg.com. You'll get a much better value for your money, and a far more professional laptop.

+1

If you go windows, there's no better laptop in my opinion than a Thinkpad. I'm typing on one now!

[polaris20]

To Pedromiguel: Honestly, there is not much difference between a kunbutu distribution and a mac. Both are POSIX certified UNIX-like operating systems. Both operate the hardware. Both respond to the same terminal commands. Both have firefox. The only things I'll miss in the switch are Xcode and the Mail.app/iCal/Address Book stuff. Oh, and Quicksilver. Damn. Maybe I will be punishing myself....But the price spread between a PC and a comparably-specced Mac has just gotten too big for me to stomach.

Actually, there's a huge difference. I've been using Ubuntu for awhile, and I love it. See my sig. Before that, SuSe, and before that, Fedora (1 through 7).

As good as Linux is, it just doesn't have the software support that Mac and Windows does. No, Gimp isn't as good as Photoshop. No, Ardour isn't as good as Pro Tools or Logic. No, OpenOffice isn't as good as MS Office. No, Cinelerra isn't as good as FCP or Premiere.

That's the real problem, and in my opinion the reason why Linux hasn't seen wider adoption.

If I could get real MS Office, Photoshop, Logic, Reason, FCP, etc. on Linux, I probably wouldn't be here right now talking about Macs.

[mkrishnan]

+1

If you go windows, there's no better laptop in my opinion than a Thinkpad. I'm typing on one now!

+2... as long as you don't need a lot of GPU horsepower, I totally agree. Outside of netbook sized devices, in the world of full size notebooks, Thinkpad would be my one-stop shopping place.

[mason.kramer]

Sorry to necro this but I thought someone would be interested. I ended up getting a blackbook 2ghz from craiglist for $800. I realized that the guy on the first page was right, and buying a Windows was going to hurt me more than Apple. The new laptops are a ripoff is only hardware specs are compared, but I realized that I'm willing to pay for an OS that I like. :apple:

[Queen of Spades]

Sorry to necro this but I thought someone would be interested. I ended up getting a blackbook 2ghz from craiglist for $800. I realized that the guy on the first page was right, and buying a Windows was going to hurt me more than Apple. The new laptops are a ripoff is only hardware specs are compared, but I realized that I'm willing to pay for an OS that I like. :apple:

Cool, and good price. I've been trying to snag another BlackBook off of CL for my sister, but the prices haven't been as cheap as I expected with the new MacBooks. I could get her an el cheap-o windows laptop, but she's had enough of those. I'm going to keep trying.

[silverblack]

I ended up getting a blackbook 2ghz from craiglist for $800.

Bummer! I just sold my 2.16G blackbook for $800, Canadian!

[Queen of Spades]

Bummer! I just sold my 2.16G blackbook for $800, Canadian!

Drool! I would have snapped that up. I'm rarely seeing anything listed under $1000, and when they are, the trackpads look like someone was eating KFC on it. That's a pet peeve.

[mason.kramer]

There's always a better deal - thanks for pissing on my cornflakes :). No - just kidding. I'm happy with it

[PeterQVenkman]

Holy smokes, following the links from you guys to HP, I priced this out;

• Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor P8600 (2.4 GHz)
• 18.4" diagonal High Definition HP Ultra BrightView Infinity Display (1920x1080p)
• 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
• 250GB 5400RPM SATA
• Webcam + Fingerprint Reader
• Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card
• Lightscribe Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
• HP Integrated HDTV Hybrid Tuner
• 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery

$1,614.99

Wow. That's cheaper than the fastest MacBook with 4 GB of ram in it.

[Chase R]

Holy smokes, following the links from you guys to HP, I priced this out;

• Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor P8600 (2.4 GHz)
• 18.4" diagonal High Definition HP Ultra BrightView Infinity Display (1920x1080p)
• 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
• 250GB 5400RPM SATA
• Webcam + Fingerprint Reader
• Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card
• Lightscribe Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
• HP Integrated HDTV Hybrid Tuner
• 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery

$1,614.99

Wow. That's cheaper than the fastest MacBook with 4 GB of ram in it.

18.4 inches! That thing is a freakin' tank. Laptops are suppose to be PORTABLE. I get people asking me all the time if my new MacBook is the MB Air... This thing is almost as portable as it gets. And after using Windoze my whole life I don't think I'll ever go back... OS X is far superior in just about every way compared to Windoze.

[PeterQVenkman]

18.4 inches! That thing is a freakin' tank. Laptops are suppose to be PORTABLE. .

How about this one? Same specs, but a 16 inch monitor:

• Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor P8600 (2.4 GHz)
• 16.0" diagonal High Definition HP Ultra BrightView Infinity Display (1920x1080p)
• 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
• 250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
• Webcam + Fingerprint Reader with HP Imprint Finish (Fluid)
• Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card
• Lightscribe Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
• HP Integrated HDTV Hybrid Tuner

$1,764.99.


Gah, now that I'm really looking at work options, the HPs are going for ridiculously low prices.


Comparing to MacBook Pro:

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 256MB
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
250GB Serial ATA @ 5400
Built in iSight
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
- No Blu ray
- No lightscribe drive (for $15 extra on the HP, I'll take it)
- No HDTV tuner
- Half the VRAM
- lower res monitor

$2,034.00

Whew, I can't believe I'm considering jumping ship.

[darngooddesign]

That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[J&JPolangin]

...if you like the MSI wind, check out the ASUS eee PC offerings - the 1000H is what this is being typed on right now.

Battery life is better although slightly heavier than the MSI.

"N" wifi and bluetooth are also a plus.

Here's a comparo with an XP and a Linux version for a good price...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2030260772%201721545051&bop=And&CompareItemList=N82E16834220431%2CN82E16834220369

[dbdynsty25]

The two BlueLabel units at Best Buy, although being Windows Vista Machines, looks pretty nice and are around 1000 USD. I much prefer the Toshiba over the HP BTW.