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MacBytes
Oct 16, 2008, 10:01 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Apple Hardware
Link: The MacBook That Apple Got So, So Right (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20081016230108)
Description:: We donít write much about Macs at iLounge, but I wanted to make an exception today to pat Apple on the back for doing something very right: the new aluminum MacBook.

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

mkoval11
Oct 16, 2008, 10:30 PM
Look, say what you want about Apple but I just stopped by my local retail Apple store and took a look at these. Personally I use the spring 2008 version of the MBP. These new machines are absolutely gorgeous. Anyone who complains about glossy or matte is nuts and if you say a word about the display port, again your nuts although Apple, it should be in the box. The MacBook for $1,200 is ridiculous. Fast, meticulous and professional. While the Air is cool, this is the one Exec's will want. There is no more low end. For $1,200 you get a fantastic machine. Yes, you can spend $399 on an Asus POS, but if you want something thats going to last more than 12 months than you have to get this. I was immediately convinced and bought both the MacBook, for travel and the MacBook Pro as a replacement. I have a large IT staff so I have 50 people in line drooling for my 4 month of MBP. Get one of these things in you hand and thats it. Who care that the economy is falling apart and your 401 is worth nothing, invest in one of thee and it will put a smile on your face every time you turn it on.

Peabody
Oct 16, 2008, 10:34 PM
I second the article. Apple is on a good track here.

I remember the constant blathering about when Apple ditched the ADB ports and Floppy Drive with the original iMac.

The background noise will slow down soon enough. :)

mathcolo
Oct 16, 2008, 10:42 PM
The background noise will slow down soon enough. :)

Hopefully:rolleyes:

altautah
Oct 16, 2008, 10:53 PM
I got the 2.4GHz with 4GB of RAM....waiting for it to be shipped to me.... I waited a long time for this machine to come out. I am replacing my 2nd generation 12" Powermac G4...it is 4 years old and hurting...and it has a lot of white spots on the screen. I cannot wait for my new macbook!!

topcash
Oct 16, 2008, 10:54 PM
yes, yes, been waiting a while for the new macbooks. http://lazylook.com/img/260/a08a1012nfeh/smile.gif

Jona7
Oct 16, 2008, 11:17 PM
no firewire.

11800506
Oct 16, 2008, 11:44 PM
Finally an article that I agree with completely! I really love the look of the new Macbooks and it astounding how much newer they look when compared to the old ones! Persoally it is really tempting to sell my current laptop and get when when that was something that I had never really thought about before. Sure it was stupid of Apple to not include a Firewire port but if you overlook that one flaw which isn't that big of one for many prospective consumer buyers the new Macbook is a really good machine.

PCMacUser
Oct 16, 2008, 11:50 PM
Finally an article that I agree with completely! I really love the look of the new Macbooks and it astounding how much newer they look when compared to the old ones! Persoally it is really tempting to sell my current laptop and get when when that was something that I had never really thought about before. Sure it was stupid of Apple to not include a Firewire port but if you overlook that one flaw which isn't that big of one for many prospective consumer buyers the new Macbook is a really good machine.

I'd be more than happy to sacrifice the Firewire port for the new aluminium casing of the Macbook. But unfortunately it is prohibitively expensive now that Apple have increased the price by US$300 here in NZ. I will have to keep using my 3 year old iBook for a while longer.

jaduffy108
Oct 16, 2008, 11:50 PM
While I think there are things to praise about the new MBs...

First mkoval11, it's $1300 (1299), not $1200. Firewire is not only a big deal for many in terms of external drives they've purchased...you give up target disk mode. When you have a diagnostic issue arise, you will QUICKLY see the enormous benefit of TDM. This isn't possible over usb.

No express card slot for installing a FW or eSata card.

The price goes up $200 ($1099 vs 1299), but the cpu speed is slower. 2.1 vs 2.0. How does *that* make sense?

As usual, Apple focuses on looks over substance. The new MBs are much better looking and thinner. Whoop-di-do-da.

I think this is overall a very poor update to the line. Judging from various forums, I think sales (the lack thereof) will confirm this conclusion.

This article and POLL is very "enlightening" as to how many view the FW issue:

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/10/16/firewire-feedback-from-readers-and-apple/

QuarterSwede
Oct 16, 2008, 11:55 PM
I went from a 2.4GHz MacBook Pro to a 2.4GHz MacBook. I haven’t run benchmark tests, but the new machine feels at least as fast as the old one
The price goes up $200 ($1099 vs 1299), but the cpu speed is slower. 2.1 vs 2.0. How does *that* make sense?
The new one has faster memory and FSB, DDR3 (1066MHz) compared to DDR2 (800MHz). That may not be a huge bump in the CPU field but it's quite a jump for RAM and FSB.

I think this is overall a very poor update to the line. Judging from various forums, I think sales (the lack thereof) will confirm this conclusion.
So far they've been selling out. We'll see how things end up of course.

I'm not a fan of FireWire being excluded and think they should just end up merging the two lines. The MB and MBP are almost the same machine as it is now.

jaduffy108
Oct 17, 2008, 12:17 AM
The new one has faster memory and FSB, DDR3 (1066MHz) compared to DDR2 (800MHz). That may not be a huge bump in the CPU field but it's quite a jump for RAM and FSB.


So far they've been selling out. We'll see how things end up of course.


Selling out...Really? They seem to be available everywhere I look....online and Apple Stores. I was at two Apple stores here in LA today.

QuarterSwede
Oct 17, 2008, 12:19 AM
Selling out...Really? They seem to be available everywhere I look....online and Apple Stores. I was at two Apple stores here in LA today.
The only place they hadn't been selling out that I have heard was in LA ironically.

jaduffy108
Oct 17, 2008, 12:23 AM
The only place they hadn't been selling out that I have heard was in LA ironically.


right :rolleyes:

jimN
Oct 17, 2008, 02:24 AM
This article and POLL is very "enlightening" as to how many view the FW issue:

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/10/16/firewire-feedback-from-readers-and-apple/

No it isn't. The readers of TUAW are a self-selecting population who are well aware of what Firewire is. The largest addressable market for Apple at the moment are Switchers and these people aren't used to Firewire. They use USB and have USB peripherals with their PCs and will likely not even notice the absence.

It might not be what people want to hear but it's the truth.

proc
Oct 17, 2008, 02:52 AM
no firewire.

While I agree that the new MacBook are indeed very good they simply lack Firewire which is needed to connect Firewire videocameras, connect fast external HDD (USB external HDD are sloooooww on OS X),etc.

If Firewire returns on the new MacBook (revision B hopefully) I will probably buy one and maybe even two new MacBooks.

Elloise
Oct 17, 2008, 03:10 AM
While I agree that the new MacBook are indeed very good they simply lack Firewire which is needed to connect Firewire videocameras, connect fast external HDD (USB external HDD are sloooooww on OS X),etc.

If Firewire returns on the new MacBook (revision B hopefully) I will probably buy one and maybe even two new MacBooks.

You could probably afford a MBP in that case. Fixed.

Anybody see that production line video for the MB body production? I can't really see them changing this because people want pro connectivity on their consumer machine.

lamina
Oct 17, 2008, 04:24 AM
The lack of firewire really just kinda hit home for me. I'm by no means a professional, but I have an older video camera which only uses firewire. I use it maybe 4 times per year, but with a new MacBook, I wouldn't be able to use it at all! I can't justify the extra $700 or so to upgrade to a MacBook so that I can use my video camera 4 times per year.

I wonder what the justification was for leaving out FW400. FW400 on the MacBook (consumer) and FW800 on the MacBook Pro (professional) just makes sense.

Elloise
Oct 17, 2008, 04:32 AM
I also have one of those video cameras and I agree it's annoying, but bearing in mind the current Macbook doesn't really run pro video editing software why would you want to upgrade anyway?

Not casting wild accusations here, but people who pay for pro software to run a pro operation will probably not be running these apps on a Macbook.

Voodoophone
Oct 17, 2008, 06:29 AM
I can't really see them changing this because people want pro connectivity on their consumer machine.

Wow, I never knew that firewire was a 'pro' connection. Now I see all those 'pro' laptops from dell and acer are so so cheap.
:p

Elloise
Oct 17, 2008, 06:39 AM
Wow, I never knew that firewire was a 'pro' connection. Now I see all those 'pro' laptops from dell and acer are so so cheap.
:p

Yeah, you can connect your FW floppy drive.

Look into the apps that would still benefit from this connectivity moving forward and try again.

Voodoophone
Oct 17, 2008, 06:57 AM
Yeah, you can connect your FW floppy drive.

Look into the apps that would still benefit from this connectivity moving forward and try again.

floopy drive - genius. try again yourself and look at imovie's documents that talk about fw connection. look at small scale recording mixers for amateur artists that can't afford the extra £400 for a macbook pro.

I work with freelance art and music workers that work with kids at risk and other community groups who use firewire for their work.

FW is still moving forward. USB is still a crappy connection for sustained connection speeds.

Voodoophone
Oct 17, 2008, 07:05 AM
I also have one of those video cameras and I agree it's annoying, but bearing in mind the current Macbook doesn't really run pro video editing software why would you want to upgrade anyway?

Not casting wild accusations here, but people who pay for pro software to run a pro operation will probably not be running these apps on a Macbook.

While we're on the subject, Final Cut express and Logic Studio Express are both bto options on the new macbook. Smaller versions, but still 'pro' apps, and both also require a FW port to utilise to maximum effect (FCE cannot log and capture over USB - thereby uttely pointless to anyone except people who don't really need to edit in the first place)

Voodoophone
Oct 17, 2008, 07:07 AM
But, like most people say, the new macbooks are for switchers.

In my opinion, apple only removed the FW port to differentiate, and that motive is pure greed.

lucasgladding
Oct 17, 2008, 08:08 AM
For anyone who thinks FireWire was removed without good reason:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/Mac/MacBook-Unibody/Page-6#s2970

To me, it simply looks like a space issue. It has been years since I last used FireWire, so I'm in the "won't miss" camp.

I definitely agree that the loss is unfortunate from an audio perspective, but Apple is trying to push users to AVCHD for video (as mention in other posts in this thread). Apple has always forced users in the direction the company wants to move.

Regarding differentiation equals greed: Apple is a publicly traded company who needs to keep making money in order to have access to investment markets. There is nothing wrong with differentiating their product line. If users speak up and show that FW is needed even in consumer portables, it will be added.

Kind regards

Elloise
Oct 17, 2008, 08:42 AM
Avatar +3
October 14th didn't kill your macbook. Your software still runs, your port is still there.

When your software changes/upgrades and you want to adopt the new features your hardware requirements may also change. At that point you need to make the decision to go pro, refurb/second hand, or to just not upgrade software.

I'm a big fan of FW400 on my macbook, but this really isn't the end of the world. Let's be friends just incase though.

davidgrimm
Oct 17, 2008, 11:14 AM
I think this is overall a very poor update to the line. Judging from various forums, I think sales (the lack thereof) will confirm this conclusion.

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/10/16/firewire-feedback-from-readers-and-apple/

Sales have been very good at my local north Texas Apple store. They have almost sold out of the MBs and new MBP. I know someone that thinks the shift to glossy screens is a mistake due to the difficulty of calibrating them. I don't know if this is true, but thats the first real issue I have heard about the new machines.

davidgrimm
Oct 17, 2008, 11:30 AM
I don't know why so many people have a problem with this. If you're doing video or music editing and have "high-end" equipment that requires FW, why are you even considering the consumer-end machine? The Macbook is targeted for college students to take notes, manage their digital music and tv shows, do some word processing, spreadsheets, and presentations. If you're a power user and will be photoshopping hundreds of photos, making that 60 documentary, or recording and manipulating music tracks, maybe you should be checking out the MBPs.

RedTomato
Oct 17, 2008, 11:49 AM
I second the article. Apple is on a good track here.

I remember the constant blathering about when Apple ditched the ADB ports and Floppy Drive with the original iMac.

The background noise will slow down soon enough. :)

I remember that too. Thing was, there are workarounds available for floppy / ADB (i.e. external floppies, ADB convertors).

There's NO workaround for lack of FW on the alu MB. None. That's what upsets people.

The whitebook MB is end of line, and people are reluctant to buy it.

Also the alu MB is still a high end computer. It's one of the most powerful laptops you can buy in 2008, and to suggest it's not suitable for video editing is ridiculous. People have been editing video on far slower laptops for nearly a decade now.

229dan229
Oct 17, 2008, 11:50 AM
no firewire.

get a macbook pro.

kabunaru
Oct 17, 2008, 11:56 AM
The new MacBook is just fine in my opinion.

synth3tik
Oct 17, 2008, 11:56 AM
If Apple was to send me a review model I might give the MB a decent review sans the firewire. MBP would get a poor review because of glossy only screens.

However having looked at the price tags, no. I will not pay more for less thank you.

kabunaru
Oct 17, 2008, 11:57 AM
However having looked at the price tags, no. I will not pay more for less thank you.

Wait and see what Revision B brings then.

cube
Oct 17, 2008, 12:00 PM
For anyone who thinks FireWire was removed without good reason:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/Mac/MacBook-Unibody/Page-6#s2970

To me, it simply looks like a space issue. It has been years since I last used FireWire, so I'm in the "won't miss" camp.

I definitely agree that the loss is unfortunate from an audio perspective, but Apple is trying to push users to AVCHD for video (as mention in other posts in this thread). Apple has always forced users in the direction the company wants to move.

Regarding differentiation equals greed: Apple is a publicly traded company who needs to keep making money in order to have access to investment markets. There is nothing wrong with differentiating their product line. If users speak up and show that FW is needed even in consumer portables, it will be added.

Kind regards

There is NO good reason. The port could easily have gone in the back, instead of being removed altogether.

As usual, Apple forces on people fancy impractical design. They are the ANTITHESIS of a good design company.

And MacBytes linking to fanboy articles, no surprises there.

nplima
Oct 17, 2008, 12:23 PM
get a macbook pro.

or use 1/4 of the money to build a hackintosh with 4 PCI->Firewire cards.
The Apple product line up has never been about choice, right?

opava5
Oct 17, 2008, 12:25 PM
I recently became a mac user - recently meaning August 2008, having used a PC based computer over the last ten years or so - I love the switch. Yesterday I went into the local Apple store, played around with the new macbooks, and immediately purchased one. In a word - beautiful. The best laptop I've ever owned (having used Dells, IBMs, HP, and Compaqs).
The new trackpad is awesome. It does more than we were told...

danny_w
Oct 17, 2008, 12:30 PM
No it isn't. The readers of TUAW are a self-selecting population who are well aware of what Firewire is. The largest addressable market for Apple at the moment are Switchers and these people aren't used to Firewire. They use USB and have USB peripherals with their PCs and will likely not even notice the absence.

It might not be what people want to hear but it's the truth.
A quick search of Newegg shows that almost every Windows laptop over $649 has Firewire, so why wouldn't switchers be used to it, or at least know about it?

Mackilroy
Oct 17, 2008, 01:10 PM
I find it highly ironic that for years people whined about Apple putting in high CPU speeds at the expense of other hardware, and now that they've bumped the GPU, RAM, FSB, and designed a very nice (in my opinion) new case, and basically left the processor the same, people are whining about that.

Get over yourselves. :p

whooleytoo
Oct 17, 2008, 02:22 PM
I don't know why so many people have a problem with this. If you're doing video or music editing and have "high-end" equipment that requires FW, why are you even considering the consumer-end machine? The Macbook is targeted for college students to take notes, manage their digital music and tv shows, do some word processing, spreadsheets, and presentations. If you're a power user and will be photoshopping hundreds of photos, making that 60 documentary, or recording and manipulating music tracks, maybe you should be checking out the MBPs.

Because not everyone who has a Firewire camera, or hard drive, is a high-end user. We're using the video camera standard which Apple itself was championing not long ago, and now they want to drop it for an inferior standard which eliminates the attractiveness of these machines for anyone about to replace an old Mac.

Maximillian
Oct 17, 2008, 03:19 PM
I don't know why so many people have a problem with this. If you're doing video or music editing and have "high-end" equipment that requires FW, why are you even considering the consumer-end machine? The Macbook is targeted for college students to take notes, manage their digital music and tv shows, do some word processing, spreadsheets, and presentations. If you're a power user and will be photoshopping hundreds of photos, making that 60 documentary, or recording and manipulating music tracks, maybe you should be checking out the MBPs.

What if you're a video major and you aren't sure if you want to drop $2k+ on a new laptop but you need to capture some video off your school's nice HD camera. Or maybe you just want all your firewire drives to still be useful. Sometimes it's just nice to have the ability to use a device even if you don't have a pro-grade machine.

And since I'm technically in the "Pro" category, I'll chime in with this: I use an eight-core Mac Pro to do my FCP and After Effects editing, but my '06 MacBook was great for when I was on-the-road or doing smaller projects. Without firewire, I'd have been forced to get a machine that was more powerful and expensive for 1 port. Since they dropped FW, I was forced to get a new MBP and while I like it, the smaller MB would have been my choice if only it had FW.

synth3tik
Oct 17, 2008, 03:22 PM
isn't iLounge all about iPods?

As stated in the article "we usually don't review Macs" yeah, it's because you guys are all about iPods and other media players.

WAIT!! what will I do with my first gen iPod.

Beric
Oct 17, 2008, 03:25 PM
I'm totally bummed about the price. I've pretty much decided Macs aren't for people who aren't rich and can't afford to blow a bunch of money on a poorly-specced machine purely for its OS.

econoline06
Oct 17, 2008, 05:59 PM
Man I thought I was the only one who really REALLY liked the new Macbooks!

econoline06
Oct 17, 2008, 06:02 PM
or use 1/4 of the money to build a hackintosh with 4 PCI->Firewire cards.
The Apple product line up has never been about choice, right?

Gahhh, not the hackintosh crowd again. Hackintoshes are shoddy half-blooded wanna-bee Apple machines that do NOT function at the same level.

gmecca2
Oct 17, 2008, 06:14 PM
The upgrades are nice but not enough to get me to switch from my 12" PB G4. Still wanting and waiting

mkoval11
Oct 17, 2008, 11:53 PM
While I think there are things to praise about the new MBs...

First mkoval11, it's $1300 (1299), not $1200. Firewire is not only a big deal for many in terms of external drives they've purchased...you give up target disk mode. When you have a diagnostic issue arise, you will QUICKLY see the enormous benefit of TDM. This isn't possible over usb.

No express card slot for installing a FW or eSata card.

The price goes up $200 ($1099 vs 1299), but the cpu speed is slower. 2.1 vs 2.0. How does *that* make sense?

As usual, Apple focuses on looks over substance. The new MBs are much better looking and thinner. Whoop-di-do-da.

I think this is overall a very poor update to the line. Judging from various forums, I think sales (the lack thereof) will confirm this conclusion.

This article and POLL is very "enlightening" as to how many view the FW issue:

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/10/16/firewire-feedback-from-readers-and-apple/

Buy a Dell...

And one more thing. Sorry you pay list price. I don't...

Quillz
Oct 18, 2008, 01:18 AM
It only took about three minutes at the Apple Store to convince myself that I needed this new MacBook. Frankly, it's the notebook computer I've been waiting for since buying my first notebook (a Dell Inspiron E1405) in 2006. Do I really need one? No, of course not. Do I really want one? Yes, absolutely. And, well... That's what I did. I ordered the new MacBook last night, and I really looking forward to using it once it arrives in a few days.

I am now selling my old MacBook and Dell XPS on eBay. I was thinking of hanging onto the Dell so that I have a reliable Windows machine, but then I realized that Boot Camp has been much improved in the past few months.

Quillz
Oct 18, 2008, 01:29 AM
Man I thought I was the only one who really REALLY liked the new Macbooks!Nope, I really like the new MacBook and MacBook Pro, too. I've also never used the FireWire port on my MacBook. All my peripherals use USB 2, which is fine with me. The lack of a FireWire port on the new MacBook means nothing to me at all.

nplima
Oct 18, 2008, 02:50 AM
Gahhh, not the hackintosh crowd again. Hackintoshes are shoddy half-blooded wanna-bee Apple machines that do NOT function at the same level.

true, but for transferring files through firewire and then to your network they'll do just fine.

Mal67
Oct 18, 2008, 08:02 AM
I think the new Macbooks are great. :) I do wish they could have made room for an extra usb port though. Hopefully the price will come down after the revisions come out because the prices here in Australia certainly shot up with this release.

dollydolman
Oct 18, 2008, 09:07 AM
I'd love one as well, but cash issues means I will probably have to look at a base spec iMac rather than a new Macbook.