a 13 inch notebook doesn't need firewire

[eye.surgeon]

Not meaning to stir things up but who does serious video editing on a 13 inch notebook? Come on. Video editing is done on a desktop computer with serious processing power and a 24 or 30 inch monitor. Complaining that a little 4 lb notebook with a 13 inch screen isn't equipped to edit your home movies is ridiculous. USB 2.0 does everything 95% of macbook owners need.

[Chase817]

I do video editing on my MacBook white and the screen is just fine.

[shady825]

A lot of video cameras dont even use fire wire any more. (at least i dont think so)

[QuarterSwede]

Great. Another thread about bloody firewire!

[Eidorian]

Target Disk Mode...

[StayAlive]

Not meaning to stir things up but who does serious video editing on a 13 inch notebook? Come on. Video editing is done on a desktop computer with serious processing power and a 24 or 30 inch monitor. Complaining that a little 4 lb notebook with a 13 inch screen isn't equipped to edit your home movies is ridiculous. USB 2.0 does everything 95% of macbook owners need.

Speak for yourself. There are a lot of users who need portability with video editing capabilities.

[angemon89]

But Time Machine works better when you're using firewire.

[juanster]

I think FW is not necessary and truly almost everything FW can do USB can do , I do some video editing on my macbook, and i do lots of huge file transfers from my MB to my externals all the time, and I do not mind using usb for my non-FW externals BUT it is a downgrade from having one b4 and not having one now, you just can't deny that...its kind of like getting power windows in car because it comes with it, next year you get one for the exact same price but you don t get power windows in the new one...

That being said i still love the new MB but mine it's still more than enough for what i use it for, therefore i won't be purchasing one anytime soon.

[Pixellated]

Target Disk Mode...

Intel's (and the new nVidia Chipset) allow you to boot from USB.

[Eidorian]

Intel's (and the new nVidia Chipset) allow you to boot from USB.So I can boot my new Aluminium MacBook into Target Disk Mode and mount it onto a another Mac via USB?

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Is the OP serious? My dad has a Macbook, he is by no means a professional. What's one of his hobbies? He videotapes everything. Does he need firewire? Duh. Do I need firewire? Yeah, I like making short films with friends and for school. Are there a ton of other people out there who don't want/need professional laptops or desktops who use video cameras? No crap, Clifford!

So I can boot my new Aluminium MacBook into Target Disk Mode and mount it onto a another Mac via USB?

No, the previous poster has no idea what Target disk mode is.

[Eidorian]

No, the previous poster has no idea what Target disk mode is.Target Disk Mode has been the utility that has saved me countless times in a pinch. I assure you that there are many Mac IT professionals that have pulled off a few miracles with it as well.

[nomad01]

Is the OP serious? My dad has a Macbook, he is by no means a professional. What's one of his hobbies? He videotapes everything. Does he need firewire? Duh. Do I need firewire? Yeah, I like making short films with friends and for school. Are there a ton of other people out there who don't want/need professional laptops or desktops who use video cameras? No crap, Clifford!


While I think many people will miss firewire in the MB in the short term, my personal take on it is that the pros of the new Macbook outweigh the cons.

Only thing I use firewire for now is to connect my Sony MiniDV camcorder to it maybe twice a year... after holidays usually. The camcorder cost me about £400 a couple of years back. I can replace it with something comparable that uses USB instead for around half that price so that's what I'll do.

In the meantime, my partner still has an old white MB with Firewire so I'll use that and then upgrade the camera when I have to.

Would I rather have Firewire in the MB? Yes, definitely. Is it a dealbreaker without it? No... I can deal with it.

I suspect Apple are relying on this being the case with most users and those that need Firewire will just have to plump for the MB Pro.

[djellison]

Not meaning to stir things up but who does serious video editing on a 13 inch notebook? .

Clearly you don't.

However, other people might want to. After all, iMovie and iDVD are right in there out of the box.

They took FW out to push people onto the MBP.

Doug

[fewture]

You are forgetting audio

Most audio interfaces are firewire (For good reason)

And people who are using audio programs often need to use an external hdd over firewire for samples/recording etc (especially with programs like Logic). In those scenarios, a firewire hdd is much better than USB.

There are lot of people who use Macbooks for those things (and yes Macbook Pros too).

[kubricks]

Not meaning to stir things up but who does serious video editing on a 13 inch notebook? Come on. Video editing is done on a desktop computer with serious processing power and a 24 or 30 inch monitor. Complaining that a little 4 lb notebook with a 13 inch screen isn't equipped to edit your home movies is ridiculous. USB 2.0 does everything 95% of macbook owners need.

Expand your mind to the other realms... particularly audio.

Many here seems to not realize that this user group exists. Everyone saying we don't need firewire argue about file transfers, target disk, video etc...

It's ridiculous to argue against a tiny ****ing port that should be there and completely ****s over the pro audio crowd. You think people are complaining because it takes 4 min to transfer some files vs 2 min? No. This is serious **** if you want a 13" notebook for a portable DAW (and want a Mac). If there were decent alternatives, we wouldn't be bitching about it. There aren't decent alternatives for USB pro audio that I would trust in a mission critical situation.

[Abstract]

(I'm just going to cut and paste my answer (slightly changed) that I wrote just now in another thread.....)


Even if you don't use FW, I'd rather it be included, as it has been included in every Mac for 8 years or so. There are no good excuses for not including it. Apple just wanted some way to differentiate the MB from the MBP. If they were really so concerned with product differentiation, they shouldn't have designed them to be so similar.


FW has huge advantages over USB that not even USB 3 can solve.

1. The constant, sustained throughput of FW. USB only transfers data in bursts.

2. USB uses your CPU, and therefore, slows down your computer. If you're moving a lot of data, or you're using a device plugged into your USB, be prepared for your computer to slow down. Firewire doesn't require the CPU, so you and your computer can continue working at full speed.


That said, only the cheapest, s**ttiest camcorders don't support FW. Just because people buy the lowest end camcorder doesn't mean that $1300 and $1600 laptops shouldn't support FW. Even midrange products that are on the lower end of the scale have FW.

Besides, if USB was so effing hot right now, then why not replace the FW port with a 3rd USB port? Even $350 netbooks have 3 USB ports, and they actually dominate the laptop sales figures at the moment.

[amammad]

That said, only the cheapest, s**ttiest camcorders don't support FW.


Is that really true? From what I've been able to find out, it seems that most consumer hard disc, DVD and SD models seem to have USB. Many just relying on USB with no firewire option.

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I'm not saying this is a cast iron fact. Just saying what I've found from what research I've done since the new MBs came out.

[Abstract]

Well most HDDs don't have Firewire because most people use them to back up MS Word documents and photos, so they don't care. However, external harddisks aren't just so that people can make casual backups of things. They're made to store actual media files that requires real-time data storage, such as saving video or audio files.


USB is just crap for that.

[^squirrel^]

Target Disk Mode has been the utility that has saved me countless times in a pinch. I assure you that there are many Mac IT professionals that have pulled off a few miracles with it as well.

Exactly! I would have order a new Macbook if it had Firewire, but i've had to go for an old Macbook Pro 2.4! I'm an I.T professional and 100% must have the function to use Target Disk Mode.

[amammad]

Well most HDDs don't have Firewire because most people use them to back up MS Word documents and photos, so they don't care. However, external harddisks aren't just so that people can make casual backups of things. They're made to store actual media files that requires real-time data storage, such as saving video or audio files.


USB is just crap for that.

I was talking about Camcorders... not hard discs ???

[Dybbuk]

Not meaning to stir things up but who does serious video editing on a 13 inch notebook? Come on. Video editing is done on a desktop computer with serious processing power and a 24 or 30 inch monitor.

Did it ever occur to you that some people use both a laptop and a desktop for their work?

[TBi]

A 13" notebook doesn't need a lot of things. It doesn't need a big glass trackpad, it doesn't need a backlit keyboard, it doesn't need wireless built in. However some people want these things and buy because the laptop has them. I want firewire but i don't need it (heck when you think about it you don't even need a laptop). I probably won't buy a laptop without it.

[Abstract]

I was talking about Camcorders... not hard discs ???

Sorry if I misinterpreted, but.......


Is that really true? From what I've been able to find out, it seems that most consumer hard disc, DVD and SD models seem to have USB. Many just relying on USB with no firewire option.


I just explained why there are some backup harddisks that don't have FW......because those customers don't need them, and they tend to be cheaper. More expensive HDDs aren't always guaranteed to have FW, but the ones that do are meant for people who transfer large files.

In general, FW is better for transferring large files, so it applies to more than just harddrives.

[OttawaGuy]

Not meaning to stir things up but who does serious video editing on a 13 inch notebook? Come on. Video editing is done on a desktop computer with serious processing power and a 24 or 30 inch monitor. Complaining that a little 4 lb notebook with a 13 inch screen isn't equipped to edit your home movies is ridiculous. USB 2.0 does everything 95% of macbook owners need.

I need/want fw.

USB 2 sucks.

[iSchultzie]

I agree with op that firewire is not a need but I can see how video editors would want to have the fast transers that go with firewire. If you were editing video though you could just get the pro with the hardware more suited for video editing.

[amammad]

I just explained why there are some backup harddisks that don't have FW......because those customers don't need them, and they tend to be cheaper. More expensive HDDs aren't always guaranteed to have FW, but the ones that do are meant for people who transfer large files.

In general, FW is better for transferring large files, so it applies to more than just harddrives.

Oh I wholeheartedly agree. FW is infinitely better.

Not disagreeing about the benefits of FW.

I was just saying that most consumer camcorders now seem to be supporting USB2.0 and not just the cheap ones... some very pricey High Def ones are supporting it.

We all know that "the best" doesn't always translate to most proliferative unfortunately.

[G-Force]

I don't even use FireWire for camera's, I use it because it's a LOT faster than USB for external hard drives. Also, Target Disk Mode is great...

[sushi]

Target Disk Mode has been the utility that has saved me countless times in a pinch. I assure you that there are many Mac IT professionals that have pulled off a few miracles with it as well.
Completely agree with you there.

Target Disk Mode is very handy. :)

I just explained why there are some backup harddisks that don't have FW......because those customers don't need them, and they tend to be cheaper. More expensive HDDs aren't always guaranteed to have FW, but the ones that do are meant for people who transfer large files.

In general, FW is better for transferring large files, so it applies to more than just harddrives.
I've done some simple tests with external HDs that have both FW400 and USB2.0. There is simply no comparison in speeds. FW sustains transfer speeds over time. That makes a big difference when coping a few hundred GB of data. This is especially true if time is money.

[chaosbunny]

A lot of video cameras dont even use fire wire any more. (at least i dont think so)

Cool, let's all throw away our perfectly functional consumer fw cameras we bought 2 years ago and get new ones...

Seriously, I don't understand all the people saying "you don't need firewire anyway" and "you don't need a matte screen anyway" etc. What's wrong with options? I tell you something, I don't need more than 1 hour battery, because the agencies I work for with my laptop have power outlets. What if apple cuts down costs on batteries, would be no problem for me. But I wouldn't go "well there are power outlets everywhere anyway, who needs more than 1 hour battery life?"... There are different people with different needs out there, and especially since apple has basically not more than 4 laptop models (mb, mba, 15" mbp, 17" mbp) they should better make them so that as many people as possible are happy with them, and not limit their functions more and more.

[iGary]

Unbelievably stupid of Apple not to put Firewire on a Mac.

[logicsuggests]

It does.

People that think macbook pros are the only laptops professionals use are idiots.

The macbook is smaller in size, so for things like portable audio editing and recording where a 2ghz-2.4ghz cpu is more than fine, it makes no sense to spend more money on a mac book pro when it’s not needed, and now because of apples decision a large majority of high end audio interfaces are unavailable to be used.


I just love it when apple take away choice, and you people defend it by essentially saying 'spend more for a pro'.

[sushi]

Unbelievably stupid of Apple not to put Firewire on a Mac.
Agree. FW is a Mac standard.

Well, at least it used to be.

[LedCop]

I myself am a bit disappointed that firewire has been dropped in the new MacBooks but I can sorta see Apple's motives behind it.

Video cameras:
A quick look through a video camera catalogue will show that nearly all will support USB2 so Apple doesn't see video camera connectivity as a problem. Yes, some of us have old firewire DV cameras but I guess Apple thinks our next camera upgrade will make it a moot point as time goes on.

Target disk mode:
If IT professionals rely heavily on it for troubleshooting macs, it can easily be done with a portable external usb drive. Just connect it to the problematic mac, boot from it, and the Mac's internal hard disk will show up as a secondary drive. Disconnect the usb drive when done and connect to more Macs.

Firewire audio:
Every person who uses firewire audio and demands nothing less because of latency, fidelity, etc, for their mission-critical super important recording is probably what Apple deems a pro user and therefore has the means to get a MacBook Pro. If you already think that it is the case that not enough people use firewire video cameras for firewire to be greatly missed, then imagine the number of average users who have firewire audio to be even smaller.


Anyway, just my take on how Apple sees things. I'm not saying it's great that Apple chose to make lots of old firewire video cameras obsolete or for them to force the pro audio users to the MacBook Pro, but the situation is not going to get worse for them. The number of USB2 video cameras will rise and firewire only video cameras decrease, cheap portable hard disks provide an alternative to target disk mode and there just aren't that many pro audio users out there who will complain of being unable to use it on a general consumer MacBook; most will begrudgingly get a MacBook Pro and ultimately enjoy their purchase.

[Bwilky]

Crying won't change the macbooks.

[kubricks]

Crying won't change the macbooks.

It changed the iPhone prices.

[LedCop]

Crying won't change the macbooks.

Yup. Voting with your wallet by not buying them might. But we know what the chances of the Mac faithful not caving in are. :rolleyes:

[Clayne]

Voting with your wallet is only slightly less worthless.

[MasterNile]

All these threads about FW, and all these threads about glossy/glassy screens. It's not about if they need them, it's about if they want them. Mac users are crying out for options (and I don't mean options like paying $800 more for a MBP). Just because we like OS X we shouldn't have to buy a computer that either doesn't suit our needs or doesn't suit our budget. I wish there were some kind of stats (I know it's not really possible but...) of how many hackintosh computers were created over the years, I would wager that they have increased in the past couple of years and even more now. Either give us the ability to truly customize our computers to our needs or open OS X to a company that will.

[cube]

- I have 2 FireWire TV tuners with hardware compression (current ones do it in software).
- I have a pro full frame still camera that uses FireWire (for control software, not transfering prictures), for which I didn't pay PRO price, as I got it used as an alternative to the very expensive current offerings.
- I have a cheap and perfectly good miniDV camcorder.
- I have a $100 FireWire/SCSI converter for my LTO tape drive (drive which I also got used, of course)
- I don't want to use USB for my external drives.


- And the only PRO thing in the MBP is the name and the price.

[mcnicks]

I think the big problem that Apple faced with the new Macbook and Macbook Pros was differentiation. In the past, the Macbooks were made with plastic and cheaper components, whereas the Macbook Pros had metal enclosures, better build quality and better components. Now the two of them are very similar in terms of build quality and finish.

The Macbook Pro gives you a bigger screen, better resolution and a better graphics card. But it is also heavier. I bet that a lot of the "pros" were looking lustfully at the new Macbook as a cheaper, lighter option. Contrary to popular belief, pros also like saving money. By removing FireWire from the Macbooks, Apple has drawn a clear dividing line between the two models. I think that it is a slightly cynical move: it will prop up sales of the Macbook Pro at the expense of sales of the Macbook. Personally, I would have liked to see a unified product line of Macbooks: a 13", 15" and 17" with a variety of BTO options. But Apple will have done their homework, and there must be a margin involved with keeping the Macbook and Macbook Pro distinct.

It sucks for me, personally. If the Macbook had FireWire I would have ordered one immediately because my last Macbook died a few weeks ago, but maybe I am not the target demographic? As it stands, I am typing this on a new Acer Aspire One.

[Tosser]

I tend to agree, although I consider this the ultimate catering to the marketeers. I think it's a misnomer to call the "pro" "pro", because it's basically just a firewire-equipped lowest denominator macbook. Nothing else. Oh, yeah, that's right, it has a better graphics-setup. Wooptydoo, gamers can have their fun, but since when did they become "pros"? No, the Glassbook FW is even more a joke than the non-fw Glassbook.

[LedCop]

Voting with your wallet is only slightly less worthless.

I have to disagree. Remember the G4 Cube? That was one of Steve's babies and that got cut due to less than ideal sales.

And I believe the iPhone had the $200 price drop for the same reason.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Unbelievably stupid of Apple not to put Firewire on a Mac.

It's not even stupid. It's mean and manipulative. They're just tugging at my wallet. I guess I'll wait until at least the next revision, hopefully Apple will listen to us and fix it.