Purchase Advice: Mac or PC?

[terin5124]

So, here's my dilemma.

A good friend of mine has asked me for advice on the next notebook they should buy. They told me it's in my hands completely. My first instinct was to recommend the new MacBook, but then I started thinking about how easy this would be for them. Before you assume things, however, it's important to know:

-They are NOT tech-savvy.

-Their #1 purpose for purchasing this laptop is for viewing surveillance cameras at their business while on-the-go. It's a brand new system (I installed) and the security DVR (Speco) uses ActiveX controls. Ugh. There is no way around it except to use Internet Explorer. I am aware that there are ways to get Internet Explorer onto OS X, but keep in mind:

-Another main reason they want to use this computer is to use WinEDT, a program with an archaic serial interface. It is used to edit a digital LED sign outside of their business. You know, the red, scrolling type. It is absolutely proprietary Windows software, as is their Invoice & Estimates software for their business. Additionally, their MICROS cash register interface uses PC software, too. This computer is going to HAVE TO use Windows in one way or another. (Boot Camp, Fusion)

-Also, their past computers have been PCs, and it took them ages to figure out how to use them.

My conclusion is that I'm not going to even introduce them to the Leopard operating system at all, as much as they would benefit from it.

Here's my real dilemma:

1) Recommend a MacBook, install Vista/XP on it with Boot Camp, and just let it boot into that all the time? I feel like this is the right thing because it is such a nice piece of hardware, and they would surely get the new LED display to go along when it comes out. (Simplicity!)

OR

2) Just recommend a Sony VAIO or something comparable and let it be?

Hope this makes sense. Thanks in advance.

[Dybbuk]

What do you think the members here are going to say? :rolleyes:

Edit: Just read the full post, getting a MacBook for this person would be a ridiculous waste of money. They clearly don't need it. There's no point in buying a Mac if you're not going to use OS X.

[arthursiew]

Go with the MacBook with Vista. You get to enjoy the wonderful world of Leopard and use your programs you need. You get the best of both worlds.

[petermcphee]

What do you think the members here are going to say? :rolleyes:

I was thinking the same thing.

[terin5124]

I see what you mean. But honestly, I don't know!

Using a MacBook as ONLY a PC seems kind of pointless. I love my mac because of Leopard more than anything! :]

[Dybbuk]

I see what you mean. But honestly, I don't know!

Using a MacBook as ONLY a PC seems kind of pointless. I love my mac because of Leopard more than anything! :]

Don't force your preferences on someone else.

[terin5124]

What do you think the members here are going to say? :rolleyes:

Edit: Just read the full post, getting a MacBook for this person would be a ridiculous waste of money. They clearly don't need it. There's no point in buying a Mac if you're not going to use OS X.

My thoughts, too. I just don't know. Honestly, spec-for-spec, the hardware premium isn't terribly high. Maybe the MacBook is the best Vista PC, too.

[iParis]

I would just get a Mac in case you ever needed to use OS X.
You don't want to get a PC and have it crap out on you after 6 months (which happened with me).

And do you know what the name of this site is?
MacRumors Forums.

[terin5124]

Don't force your preferences on someone else.

True. Now I'm just clueless as to what PC to recommend. I was probably a bad person to ask for advice. :/

[iParis]

In addition to my last post...

I finally read all of the first post.
Now if he has the money plus some he should get a MacBook.
But if that's all he needs it for then maybe he would be better off with a PC, just make sure it has good specs.

[zer0tails]

Get a mac. OS X is a dream to use, no more worrying about viruses, adware etc.

Also, macs keep their value very well, so it's a good investment. Not to mention, it'll last you a lot longer than a pc without constant upgrades.

[zer0tails]

Get a mac. OS X is a dream to use, no more worrying about viruses, adware etc.

Also, macs keep their value very well, so it's a good investment. Not to mention, it'll last you a lot longer than a pc without constant upgrades.

Just a note of caution: macs are very addictive. It's difficult, and for me personally, impossible to return to windows.

[GadgetCollector]

If they don't need a Mac, then PC is the next alternative.

But wait!

Get a mac. OS X is a dream to use, no more worrying about viruses, adware etc.

Also, macs keep their value very well, so it's a good investment. Not to mention, it'll last you a lot longer than a pc without constant upgrades.

Just a note of caution: macs are very addictive. It's difficult, and for me personally, impossible to return to windows.

This is completely true. Mac is a bit expensive, but you can save money by not buying more Windows computers and upgrades. If you can take care of your Mac properly, this baby will last for years. Now that's a great deal.

[milani]

It sounds like you answered your own question. You want to suggest the MacBook, but it's pointless to pay the premium if the user isn't going to use Leopard. I can only imagine that the gestures on the new MBs are going to further confuse your friend, especially the triple-finger right click in Windows. I'd say you should recommend a PC notebook. As to what kind of PC notebook - I don't really know, but I have used VAIOs and they're pretty high quality (although the premium is close to the MacBook...).

[Dybbuk]

Did the respondents actually read the OP? This person won't be using OS X.

[cristo]

If your friend only needs to use his laptop to watch surveillance footage, then he hardly needs a high quality pc, let alone a mac!

[justind.clark]

Well if it took them that long to learn to use a PC then I wouldn't switch hardware on them. Macs have different keys and no right click button so learning their way around could be a problem.

Just get them an HP. Not a Sony as they are unnecessarily overpriced. I know people who are very happy with their HP's.

[rhkamra]

It sounds like this person has very simple needs which only involve PC oriented work. I see no practicality in buying a mac for this, mainly due to the additional cost of a windows xp or vista license.

I would just get them a Dell Latitude. It's their business class so they are more robust and less likely to break when traveling and that sort of work. If they get a refurbished D630 through Dell's outlet store, they can probably get one for around $600.

[richard.mac]

get the VAIO. only booting Windows on a Mac makes baby Steve cry :'(.

[mac man 007]

Buy the MacBook. Sony computers are very slow and not the best to use. The mac will be worth every cent. you can run Leopard and XP/Vista and still have all of the great styling of an apple :apple:

[ted.kaminski]

I'll tell you what you should do from a business perspective. Tell them to get a Toshiba A200 or something of that kind. It's a cheap and fairly decent business computer. Mac is at least two times more expensive and doesn't really offer them anything a Toshiba wouldn't (from their perspective).

We would all like to show people how great Macs are but believe me not everyone appreciates apple goodness. Specifically businesses - it's pointless.

[pol0001]

Get a PC. If their only using Windows programs, why buy a Mac. Windows is in most situations better suited for work needs.

Oh .... and to the "in case you need OS X" argument: If you follow that logic you will have to install Linux, too. In case you need it. ;)

[altair7]

I would say that since they are going to be using windows, don't get the macbook. I'd go with a Lenovo Thinkpad X61, X200, or even the Dell 12" laptop in the small businesses section. You would end up paying way more for the macbook.

[Beric]

Let me suggest that anyone in this thread who recommended a Mac to the OP is an extreme Mac fanboy.

To the OP: Get an HP. Look around on the HP shopping site and decide on a model based on your friend's needs. If he doesn't need much power, you can get a low-end model that is 1/3 the cost of a Macbook.

[The Samurai]

OP

From what you've said, you do not require a Mac system. Dell have pretty good systems, they will just work fine. I've still got my Dell and its sweet. There is no point in getting a Macbook and then using Windows on it solely, its pointless.

My 2 cents.

[cherry su]

Lenovo ThinkPad. They're still built like tanks. Their keyboards are wonderful. They're inexpensive, too. (find some coupon code on the internet to reduce the price even more)

[iParis]

Gateway is also an option.

Let me suggest that anyone in this thread who recommended a Mac to the OP is an extreme Mac fanboy.

To the OP: Get an HP. Look around on the HP shopping site and decide on a model based on your friend's needs. If he doesn't need much power, you can get a low-end model that is 1/3 the cost of a Macbook.

HP's aren't bad at all.
They're not too expensive and they last.

OP

From what you've said, you do not require a Mac system. Dell have pretty good systems, they will just work fine. I've still got my Dell and its sweet. There is no point in getting a Macbook and then using Windows on it solely, its pointless.

My 2 cents.

I know it's just you input, but Dells aren't the way to go.

I've heard bad stories and they have really bad customer service.

[Sesshi]

My thoughts, too. I just don't know. Honestly, spec-for-spec, the hardware premium isn't terribly high. Maybe the MacBook is the best Vista PC, too.

Peals of laughter issues from the direction of Sesshi...

I think the main problem in this case might be that the OP's friend is putting his eggs in an otherwise empty basket - that the guy he's roped in to recommend has equally little clue what to get. Perhaps the OP is better off professing his ignorance - as hard as it is for many dedicated Apple users to do that - and directing him to seek some professional help.

[themoonisdown09]

I really think it would be pointless to tell them to get a Macbook. If they are not tech-savvy, then they most likely don't want to mess with dual-booting. Also, everything they already have learned has been with PC's, so why make it even more complicated by showing them something else... when the software they will be using is in Windows.

I love my Macs and I would never buy another PC, but for some people it just doesn't make sense.

[The Samurai]

I know it's just you input, but Dells aren't the way to go.

I've heard bad stories and they have really bad customer service.

Not every company has 100% success rate in terms of quality customer service. The few times I have used Dell's CS, they have actually been pretty pronto. They were friendly, understood my issue and dealt with it accordingly. Then again, there are people who have had issues with them.

I am saying Dell because of their good pricing and quality service.

[themoonisdown09]

Get a mac. OS X is a dream to use, no more worrying about viruses, adware etc.

Also, macs keep their value very well, so it's a good investment. Not to mention, it'll last you a lot longer than a pc without constant upgrades.

Just a note of caution: macs are very addictive. It's difficult, and for me personally, impossible to return to windows.

You don't have to worry about viruses and adware in Mac OS X, yes... but if they are going to be using Windows on the Macbook, then it will be like any other PC.

[guzzlamiamor]

I have been considering a similar dilemma. I am an accountant, so I ran the numbers:

1220 (low end Macbook with corporate discount)
70 (tax)
220 (full copy of vista)

That brought the total to 1510 for a basic Macbook setup. I have to have Vista for Rhapsody, a few games, and some work related apps.

I decided to go with a Dell Studio 15. For 920 (with corporate discount, 999 retail), I was able to get the following:

2.2 GHZ Centrino 2
4 GB RAM
15.4 WLED Panel
320 GB SATA 5400 HD
256 MB ATI Video
Integrated Audigy Sound

Dell beats the Mac in processing and hard drive. Dell has more RAM, but Mac has better RAM. Bigger panel is better for me as mobility is not a factor. Mac has better video, and Dell should have better sound but it is almost negligible. Dell also comes with 2 year in home service and phone support beating the Mac hands down. Mac beats the Dell in style and design, but these factors are less important to me. I wanted substance over style, and I also wanted to have an extra 500 bucks in my pocket. At the end of the day I got a laptop, digital camera, some extra software, and had a nice dinner for the price I would have paid for the Mac.

I also considered that I would spend a half day formatting and reinstalling Vista to get rid of all the bloatware, and configuring the system for optimal performance. I am an advanced user so this was a minor issue. Additionally, now I have the ability to dual boot the Dell with Ubuntu and run it natively. With the Mac I would have needed to triple-boot, which is not an easy task, or run Ubuntu virtually which was not really something I wanted to do. My advice is, do a thorough assessment of your needs and the costs associated. In my case the Mac costs 50% more and I don't have the need for a great deal of mobility. Don't just buy the Mac because it is a nice looking machine and "everyone else is doing it".

[subq]

you post this in a mac forum and expect an unbiased response?

your problem doesn't seem like a problem at all, get them a PC

the premium on mac hardware is not worth it in your particular case

paying the premium for mac hardware just to run windows is ridiculous imo

if I could run osx legally on hardware that I put together myself I would do it, however, I am stuck paying apple's premium on hardware (unless they change their licensing) so that's what I do and I don't have a problem doing it

I still have plenty of PCs in use though

I use just about every OS under the sun :)

everything has its pros and cons

[subq]

Additionally, now I have the ability to dual boot the Dell with Ubuntu and run it natively. With the Mac I would have needed to triple-boot, which is not an easy task, or run Ubuntu virtually which was not really something I wanted to do.

No, you just run vmware fusion and run as many OSs as you like. Some people use parallels but I prefer vmware.

[guzzlamiamor]

I said I didn't want to run it virtually.

[themoonisdown09]

you post this in a mac forum and expect an unbiased response?

So I guess posting this in a PC forum wouldn't get a biased response?

[NSK123]

I don't get it.... Why do people insist on calling it Mac vs. PC? isn't an apple laptop/computer a personal computer(PC)??? Or is there something magical inside apples computers that suddenly make them turn into macs and not a pc.

Dude there is no difference if your friends buy an apple laptop or another brand... Take any laptop in the WhiteBook price range and compair it to other laptops with the same price..

They all basically do the same, they can type, surf, watch video and run WINDOWS ME, XP, VISTA, Many Linux distros or just Leopard on an apple laptop if you want that.

Just tell them to buy the WhiteBook as it's really cheap now and coveres their needs plus you can Run bootcamp on it and install Windows XP/Vista.. won't take more than an hour to install and load all the drivers onto it..

Hell I dont even have leopard on my blackbook just windows XP and it runs perfectly.. Just like on any other PC

Bootcamp is SOOO Easy.. just install windows XP/Vista. and they will be happy.

Or better.. Just get them an Asus Wind with XP..

[fxstb2002]

A low-end Dell Vostro or even Latitude would more than suffice for this guys needs. No reason to spend more than about $800 for his uses.

[themoonisdown09]

Hell I dont even have leopard on my blackbook just windows XP and it runs perfectly.. Just like on any other PC

Why?

[subq]

So I guess posting this in a PC forum wouldn't get a biased response?

Why would you guess that?

You post in a mac forum, expect the majority of the answers to say mac, you post in a pc forum, expect the majority of the answers to say pc.

[subq]

I said I didn't want to run it virtually.

oops sorry about that, I saw "needed" in your post and just wanted to make sure he was aware that you don't NEED to triple boot to run more than one OS on a Mac

[nick9191]

Dell also comes with 2 year in home service and phone support beating the Mac hands down.
Yeah good luck with that.

If you're buying a Dell buy a Dell business machine.

Dell Inspiron - Wouldn't piss on if on fire
Dell Latitude, Vostro etc - Nice machines

[chrisjarmstrong]

I would go Mac all the way I would never use anything else.

[Heavenkittykat]

I would say just get them a cheap PC and help them save money. They sound like they don't need more than that. If they buy a macbook, even entry level, they will spend much more than they have to. Buying the vista separately can surely add to the cost. If they are not going to use OSX and if they are not tech savvy or they don't care much about specs and value of computer, just get them a cheap toshiba or dell laptop.

[Heavenkittykat]

I don't get it.... Why do people insist on calling it Mac vs. PC? isn't an apple laptop/computer a personal computer(PC)??? Or is there something magical inside apples computers that suddenly make them turn into macs and not a pc.

Dude there is no difference if your friends buy an apple laptop or another brand... Take any laptop in the WhiteBook price range and compair it to other laptops with the same price..

They all basically do the same, they can type, surf, watch video and run WINDOWS ME, XP, VISTA, Many Linux distros or just Leopard on an apple laptop if you want that.

Just tell them to buy the WhiteBook as it's really cheap now and coveres their needs plus you can Run bootcamp on it and install Windows XP/Vista.. won't take more than an hour to install and load all the drivers onto it..

Hell I dont even have leopard on my blackbook just windows XP and it runs perfectly.. Just like on any other PC

Bootcamp is SOOO Easy.. just install windows XP/Vista. and they will be happy.

Or better.. Just get them an Asus Wind with XP..

just a quick question, why are you not using leopard?

[subq]

Yeah good luck with that.

If you're buying a Dell buy a Dell business machine.

Dell Inspiron - Wouldn't piss on if on fire
Dell Latitude, Vostro etc - Nice machines

I buy and support lots of Dell machines and I can tell you that the support side of things has Apple beat hands down (especially Gold support).

Let me know when you can call Apple and they will show up at your place of business the very next day and replace hardware on the spot.

[polaris20]

Did the respondents actually read the OP? This person won't be using OS X.

this thread is pretty funny. The guy will never be using OSX, but everyone's recommending a Mac as if there's no such thing as a good Windows PC.

To the OP: just get a T400 Thinkpad with the XP downgrade. Case closed.

[ProwlingTiger]

"Mac or PC?"

And you're asking this on Macrumors....?

I say go Linux! (joking)

[Heavenkittykat]

this thread is pretty funny. The guy will never be using OSX, but everyone's recommending a Mac as if there's no such thing as a good Windows PC.

To the OP: just get a T400 Thinkpad with the XP downgrade. Case closed.

well it is macrumors forum. It seems that some people in this forum are traumatized with PC's that they will never consider using nor recommending it to anyone.

[ProwlingTiger]

well it is macrumors forum. It seems that some people in this forum are traumatized with PC's that they will never consider using nor recommending it to anyone.
Well, most of us use Macs for a reason. I for one use Macs because they are superior in every way in which I use a computer. And if I need Windows, well I can dual-boot. Now why would I recommend a PC?

Well perhaps to someone on a budget, I'd recommend a PC, as Macs are generally more expensive. But that is most likely the only scenario to warrant my recommendation of a PC. I'm not "traumatized" by PC's; I merely am overwhelmed by the benefits of a Mac.

[Chappers]

HP's aren't bad at all.
They're not too expensive and they last.
I know it's just you input, but Dells aren't the way to go.

I've heard bad stories and they have really bad customer service.

Sadly a little research proves HP lovers wrong - they are going down on the whole user satisfaction chart. Apple have been top for the last 5 years.

Dell are second and improving HP are falling quite badly - check out:-

http://www.theacsi.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26

They record customer satisfaction, build quality etc

I would suggest a Dell. Love my MB but does seem a little pointless in this case.

[GadgetCollector]

Riiiiiiiiiiiight, go for the PC, buy a Dell, and be happy with it. :)

Seriously, after careful consideration, I think a PC would be great for you than a Mac... since you don't really need a Mac... :)

[iParis]

Ok, I think the majority of us have suggested a PC.
So now we're arguing over which PC he should get?

"Mac or PC?"

And you're asking this on Macrumors....?

Nice input, except for the fact that I already said exactly that. :rolleyes:

[Chappers]

Ok, I think the majority of us have suggested a PC.
So now we're arguing over which PC he should get?:

I just think its good to research and not go on what people have heard.

After all you did say
HP's aren't bad at all.
They're not too expensive and they last.
I know it's just you input, but Dells aren't the way to go.

I've heard bad stories and they have really bad customer service.

Trying not to sound childish here but - You started it. :p

[Zoticus]

I just think its good to research and not go on what people have heard.

After all you did say


Trying not to sound childish here but - You started it. :p

I have to agree with Chappers. My work uses Dell Laptops, and the support from Dell is descent. Just make sure your friend gets "Gold Support". Which allows them to speak to someone who is a little more technicaly qualified and provides a general better customer service experience.

Dell's get the job done, and is one of the reasons why many companies use them. Is it a macbook? Not by any means, but on the PC end I think its a good deal for a business user.

To The OP, getting a Sony laptop for a business owner is not a smart idea. Get him what he needs. If he is a small business owner, he'll appreciate the value of the price.

[iParis]

I just think its good to research and not go on what people have heard.

After all you did say


Trying not to sound childish here but - You started it. :p

I think you got what I said all wrong.
I was just clarifing to make sure that is what we were talking about.
Mainly so people don't keep suggesting to "Get a Mac" or "Get a PC" but instead suggest what kind of a PC he shoud advise his friend to get.

I have to agree with Chappers. My work uses Dell Laptops, and the support from Dell is descent. Just make sure your friend gets "Gold Support". Which allows them to speak to someone who is a little more technicaly qualified and provides a general better customer service experience.

Dell's get the job done, and is one of the reasons why many companies use them. Is it a macbook? Not by any means, but on the PC end I think its a good deal for a business user.

To The OP, getting a Sony laptop for a business owner is not a smart idea. Get him what he needs. If he is a small business owner, he'll appreciate the value of the price.

Ya, if it's a work laptop then Dell might just be the way to go.
You're right, Dells are mainly used for companies and usually work well for work use.

Sony laptops are mostly good for home and personal use.

[Chappers]

I think you got what I said all wrong.
I was just clarifing to make sure that is what we were talking about.
Mainly so people don't keep suggesting to "Get a Mac" or "Get a PC" but instead suggest what kind of a PC he shoud advise his friend to get.

Fair enough - I wasn't looking to argue but your post sounded a bit contradictory......sorry :)

[ProwlingTiger]

Ok, I think the majority of us have suggested a PC.
So now we're arguing over which PC he should get?



Nice input, except for the fact that I already said exactly that. :rolleyes:

Oh, I meant to add more to that post. Musta forgot before I submitted lol. :D Doubly worth noting, nonetheless though.

[themoonisdown09]

Why would you guess that?

You post in a mac forum, expect the majority of the answers to say mac, you post in a pc forum, expect the majority of the answers to say pc.

That was exactly my point. I read your original response and didn't realize you were being sarcastic.

[themoonisdown09]

Well, most of us use Macs for a reason. I for one use Macs because they are superior in every way in which I use a computer. And if I need Windows, well I can dual-boot. Now why would I recommend a PC?

Well perhaps to someone on a budget, I'd recommend a PC, as Macs are generally more expensive. But that is most likely the only scenario to warrant my recommendation of a PC. I'm not "traumatized" by PC's; I merely am overwhelmed by the benefits of a Mac.

I'm still guessing you're not reading the original post. These people will not be using OS X, only Windows. Why would you buy a Mac and then never use it for the operating system. The thing that makes Macs "more superior" is their operating system. A Macbook with only the Windows operating system installed is going to have just as many problems as a PC (I do realize that you will have all the Mac hardware, but that's not going to make the Windows experience any better).

[ProwlingTiger]

I'm still guessing you're not reading the original post. These people will not be using OS X, only Windows. Why would you buy a Mac and then never use it for the operating system. The thing that makes Macs "more superior" is their operating system. A Macbook with only the Windows operating system installed is going to have just as many problems as a PC (I do realize that you will have all the Mac hardware, but that's not going to make the Windows experience any better).

Actually, I read it. But still worth recommending a Mac. Even if he won't be using OS X immediately, the capability is still there.

And if he wasn't going to give this an option, then perhaps he should have titled it "Which PC to buy?" and posted the thread in a more appropriate forum.

[nick9191]

I buy and support lots of Dell machines and I can tell you that the support side of things has Apple beat hands down (especially Gold support).

Let me know when you can call Apple and they will show up at your place of business the very next day and replace hardware on the spot.
And I can tell you thats because your a business customer. Back in the consumer world Dell's tech support is terrible, and AppleCare scores far higher in customer satisfaction polls.