Who's read the DaVinci Code? :spoilers:

[Thanatoast]

Hey, I just got finished with the Davinci Code, and holy crap. Of course, the first thing I did was go on the net and look at a picture of the last supper, and as far as I'm concerned, Mary Magdeline is on Jesus's right. Although one site did have her labeled as John.

So anyway, I thought to myself, if any of this has any basis in reality, as in, the systematic destruction of alternative religions, how can anyone take the church seriously?

I didn't agree with the church before reading the book because I found too many inconsistencies on my own. But after having read it, and hearing about the mixing/co-opting of symbols, the demonification of the "sacred feminine", I couldn't believe the entire modern religion of Christianity was built on lies, deceipt, misinformation and brutal repression. What a great way to start a religion.

Certainly makes me want to go out and learn more about the acient religions this book speaks of.

I also found the thought intriguing that somewhere out there is a direct descendecnt of Jesus. I figure even with proof (written records) if that person came forward they would be dead within a month. Can you imagine someone at this point in history coming forward and claiming to be king/queen of the Jews, with the evidence to back it up? Hello WWIII.

Anyways, I just thought it was a real page-turner, and spoke of subjects not often heard about. Anyone else read it? Like it?

What do you think of the veracity of its claims? Obviously the story is fictional, but I mean the Priory of Scion, Da Vinci, all the symoboly, etc.

[iMeowbot]

Surely enough there is a shred of truth to it; it was common enough for missionaries all along to explain their way of thinking in terms the local people were familiar with, so some mixing would be inevitable.

And of course, there have been religious scholars spending centuries upon centuries trying to make sense of old writings, recording their own interpretations, and trying to extrapolate conclusions from it all. That's what scholars do, after all.

The alternative explanation to a great whitewashing conspiracy is that there is a continual process of revelation going on, that the drift reflects an improvement in understanding. Just how much of this drift came from good intentions, and how much may have had less than noble political leanings behind it, is likely to be way too complicated to sort out at this late date. It doesn't help much that in most cases the source documents have been lost or destroyed over time, and that quite a lot of it relied on oral traditions that passed through a succession of languages and cultures.

In summary: duh, i dunno.

[lduncan]

I haven't read the book, but here's my take on religion in general:

I think people who resort to religion for understanding are insecure and are unable to accept that we as humans don't know everything. But there is no reason to go making up stories pretending that we do, it just leads to confusion and bitterness. Why can people not accept that we don't know everything about the universe, and do something more constructive about finding out more, rather than make up stories to save face.

I'm also not saying that the bible, or any other religious book is rubbish. It, for the most part, contains common sense, which begs the question. What sort of people needs a book to tell them not to steal or murder? Generally this is ingrained in a persons upbringing, and not by reading a book.

Of course there are always execption to the rules, there will always be murders, and the fact that "Jesus loves them" will not stop them from murdering.

I just think that it is unheathly that people look to religion to answer questions that we don't know the answers to.

Layton

[crenz]

lduncan, I totally agree that we should not be making up stuff when we don't understand things. Unfortunately, a lot of religious people aren't honest with themselves and decide to conform to what someone has told them to be true, rather than admit that they don't understand everything.

Myself, I like to distinguish between religion and faith. Religion is what you are told you have to do. Religion does not need understanding, it just needs willingness to comply. You don't even need God, because religion is about making you feel good because you are doing the right thing. Faith is what I know to be true. For example, I have experienced Jesus Christ to be alive and working in my live. So of course I believe in him. If I wouldn't have experienced that, why should I believe Christianity? Out of this knowledge and relationship with him flows what I am doing in my life. Unfortunately, that still mixes with (religious) expectations that people have towards me, but I'm working on that :). But again, I strongly discourage people from making things up where there's nothing.

Thanatoast, I encourage you to read other sources as well to gain a more complete picture. With religious works, everyone is mixing in what they want to believe, not only what they found to be true. The DaVinci Code ignores historical evidence that has been accumulated throughout the centuries, even evidence found by secular historians.

[krimson]

im about half way thru the audio book version, and it seems interesting, but it is fiction, and im sure the author did alot of research on it. But i have heard some of the things i've heard (on the audio book) in other books already, mostly ones dealing with the lost books, catholic church forcing it's will on everyone, with lasting results.

Ill reserve final judgement til i finish listening, but so far it's a very well written book, very much like a Tom Clancy novel, but with religion instead of the military.

[cpjakes]

I have read both The DaVinci Code and Angels & Demons. A&D came first and is written about the same character, Robert Langdon. It also deals with major Catholic church conflicts, mostly with science.

These books are based much in truth, with A LOT of research done by the author. While I am not an incredibly religious person (and now I think I know why...) I believe that these books are based on the theory of written history being the winner's version.

While I won't spend a lot of time researching the backgrounds and checking references, both of these books make you think and take you for a wild ride.

cpjakes

[Mr. Anderson]

The book was fantastic! And I'm reading his earlier book, which is in paper back, which has the same main character.

For me it all made sense, even if it wasn't historically correct. Religion was used to control the masses - the church had power and wanted to make sure it kept the power. So what better way to solidify your position than to say God made the rules and we're just enforcing them.

I believe in God, yet the historical record shows that the church has taken many extremes over the ages that are less than 'Holy' in action. Why? Because its all a socio-political power struggle. Why not *edit* the truth to keep the status quo? If there is only one gospel, then there can't really be any arguments. During the initial history of the church there were so many heresies and heretics - basically anyone who disagreed with the church - were put down by force, just so the 'true' word of God could be spread forth.

I'm not condemning the Bible, so don't flame me, please. People are selfish, period. And by controlling others, they gain some sense of power and self esteem - its human nature. This was just a means to an end - and the Da Vinci Code was a nice little story that made most people who look at things a little differently and possibly question what they've been told for ages. Great stuff - I wonder if they'll do a movie?

D

[question fear]

da vinci code has already been optioned for movie rights, i forget who bought them.
its been the #1 bestseller for months and months, probably the bestseller of 2003.
i am a little torn on the book though...i thought the intellectual and art history/religion stuff was fascinating, but his story left something to be desired...
i want to see how the movie turns out, if they can maintain langdon as a passive character, which he needs to be for sophie's true purpose to come through...but knowing hollywood who knows.
-carly

[hacking_4_b33r]

Man i guess im gonna have to check out this book, some people i know were telling me about it but never really got into the direct content of it.

but nonetheless, sounds like a must-read.

[ksz]

It's amazing that The Da Vinci Code is still #1 on Amazon's bestseller list. Here's another Community Discussion thread on this subject:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52230

[SiliconAddict]

Read it. Wasn't all that impressed. The book itself was average at best. At least in terms of the plot and writing. I was guessing what was going to happen well in advance of the progression of the plot.
I think the author is playing with fire in that his depiction of Christianity. The fact is that he's mixing fiction with fact and not bothering to tell what is what. I know more then a few devout Christians that stopped reading the book about 1/2 way though. The writer is presenting plot lines as fact. In such instances a writers forward or afterward should be clear, he had a forward that was somewhat ambiguous when it came to informing the reader what was fact.
*shrugs* I'm a Christian and even I thought that some of the things presented in there was somewhat ridiculous. I guess if you don't really know your religion well there are a number of points in the book that could make you scratch your head and question if this is legit or not. Frankly I don't care. The book can make all the accusations it wants because at the end of the day what difference does it make if I believe that Jesus was the son of God? If it turns out to be a false belief in the end what difference does it make? At least I don't have to go around life believing that in the end its nothing but oblivion. At least I have hope and I think that is the coolest thing about any religion. It gives a person hope that in the end he/she isn't screwed by death.
Jesus is one thing. I have zero doubt in my mind that there is a God simply because of the nature of the world and the universe. Things fit together way to perfectly. Work out way too well to be just a chance happenstance. It would be like me throwing the components of a computer in a pile and expecting a computer to appear. How about atoms? What keeps an atom together and what about subatomic particles? What makes a graviton, quark, etc do what it does, and how about what makes that do what it does and on and on and on.

[cpjakes]

SiliconAddict -

If you can manage to read another one of his, try Angels & Demons, only because it looks at more of what you're questioning, the science/religion of the universe. The DaVinci Code seemed to be more of a social context and A&D is scientific. I'm not trying to pursuade you to read another book of his, but judging by your questions, it would be another ineteresting read.

cpjakes

[lduncan]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
The book can make all the accusations it wants because at the end of the day what difference does it make if I believe that Jesus was the son of God? If it turns out to be a false belief in the end what difference does it make? At least I don't have to go around life believing that in the end its nothing but oblivion. At least I have hope and I think that is the coolest thing about any religion. It gives a person hope that in the end he/she isn't screwed by death.

This is my point. Are you that insecure that you need to gain hope in your life from something that may or may not exist? Just be content in the fact that no one really knows for sure what happens to us when we die. I for one don't go around everyday hoping that I "aren't screwed by death", if anything, this thinking is promoted by the Church with Heaven and Hell.

How about atoms? What keeps an atom together and what about subatomic particles? What makes a graviton, quark, etc do what it does, and how about what makes that do what it does and on and on and on.

As far as I know, no one knows the answers to these questions, but there are surely people trying to find out. What they don't do is say, "I don't know how this works, it must be God doing it". Here are some more questions to think about, What's beyond the edge of the universe? What is God? Who created he/she/it? Does God exist?

Layton

[ksz]

lduncan makes a good point. Throughout history we have searched for answers to fundamental questions about our purpose, our birth, our death, our crops, our planet, our universe, etc. Ancient civilizations made up elaborate beliefs and rituals to answer these questions for themselves. Each civilization applied its own unique twist and devised a set of answers that made sense for them. Today we are realizing where mysticism and fabrication end by replacing ancient answers with scientific answers. Even questions such as "who made God", which is also known as the Paradox of First Existence, are being addressed by cosmologists. The 2nd page of the thread I mentioned above provides a handful of references to works by physicists and cosmologists that you might find interesting. Here's a snippet from one reference:

From "Before the Big Bang" by Gregg Easterbrook, "US News and World Report"
...
There is, however, a way in which purely chance-based physical processes might have resulted in the present user-friendly firmament -- if universes are created all the time, greatly improving the statistical outlook of a firmament such as ours being born. This is the idea of the "multiverse," gaining backing within the scientific community.

The multiverse notion arises like this: Suppose it's true that, say, black holes are what came before the big bang. Since our universe has black holes, wouldn't some of them be busily spawning new firmaments in other dimensions? The result might be an overarching cosmic structure far larger than anything we can see -- a multiverse.

Physicist Lee Smolin uses multiverse theory to propose how life-favoring physical laws might have arisen without guidance. Smolin supposes that deep in the past, some unknowable event triggered the first foundations of a multiverse. Chance reigned, and many heavens were born with physical laws adverse to life: They collapsed back on themselves or diffused into vapor and were never heard from again. But those universes that were born with physical laws familiar to us were also the ones able to make black holes: That allowed them to trigger "daughter" universes. Over time, a fantastically large and complex multiverse resulted, with most parts of the cosmos having physical laws that allow life -- natural selection functioning on the cosmic scale.

[krimson]

i know im probably nit picking, but in chap 62 (iirc), it says "he switched off the safety" on his pistol. Glocks dont have "switchable" safetys, they're intergrated into the triggers.

[kettle]

Originally posted by krimson

i know im probably nit picking, but in chap 62 (iirc), it says "he switched off the safety" on his pistol. Glocks dont have "switchable" safetys, they're intergrated into the triggers.


I'm with you on that point, even though I take your word for it, my pet hate is TV/Films that have "empty cup syndrome", they spend thousands of dollars/pounds making the stuff, why couldn't they go the last 16th of an inch. I know when an actor is holding/drinking from an empty cup. If I knew more about guns I would rant aboutb that too.:)

[question fear]

i dont have the book in front of me, but if you want to nit pick theres a scene where the servant (remi) speaks ill of his boss who is...well, if youve read the book you'll know.
it made me think maybe there was some poor editing.
-carly

[nark]

Hey, I just got finished with the Davinci Code, and holy crap. Of course, the first thing I did was go on the net and look at a picture of the last supper, and as far as I'm concerned, Mary Magdeline is on Jesus's right. Although one site did have her labeled as John.

So anyway, I thought to myself, if any of this has any basis in reality, as in, the systematic destruction of alternative religions, how can anyone take the church seriously?

I didn't agree with the church before reading the book because I found too many inconsistencies on my own. But after having read it, and hearing about the mixing/co-opting of symbols, the demonification of the "sacred feminine", I couldn't believe the entire modern religion of Christianity was built on lies, deceipt, misinformation and brutal repression. What a great way to start a religion.

Certainly makes me want to go out and learn more about the acient religions this book speaks of.

I also found the thought intriguing that somewhere out there is a direct descendecnt of Jesus. I figure even with proof (written records) if that person came forward they would be dead within a month. Can you imagine someone at this point in history coming forward and claiming to be king/queen of the Jews, with the evidence to back it up? Hello WWIII.

Anyways, I just thought it was a real page-turner, and spoke of subjects not often heard about. Anyone else read it? Like it?

What do you think of the veracity of its claims? Obviously the story is fictional, but I mean the Priory of Scion, Da Vinci, all the symoboly, etc.
You know there are members of royalty that claim decadency from the divine blood line eg Prince Charles, the whole notion of being king or queen comes from the fact that they are meant to be representatives or gods themselves to rule over man kind the divine right to rule that’s why the have arranged marriages to keep to strengthen their blood line, Diana had a much stronger connection to merovigian <(or something like that) bloodline than the Windsor who have actually replaced the true royal family of Britain, a surviving member being Prince Michael of Albany. Some people believe that Prince Charles is the anti Christ his heraldic symbol having the symbols that represent images that coincide with those of the beast in the bible and Charles translates to man. I haven't read the Da Vinci book I picked all this stuff up all over the place so I’m not sure exactly what direction it tries to point you in but a final note the cross depicts the 4 seasons with the sun in the middle and the a king or queens crown well... Ill let you figure it out for yourself.