Funny thing abt PC Laptops

[spacepower]

hello all

I am not sure if i am the only one that noticed?
Why do many PC laptops have an offset trackpad? The trackpad is offset to the left rather than in the center. Ironicaly it is offset to the left and not right, when the majority of the population is right-handed. Besides making their laptops ugly for not being symmetrical, it just plain seems odd to me.

I guess they have amazing marketing departments that either say that all the rich laptop buyers are lefties or they know something i have no clue abt.

Nothing against South-paws, but since i am a rightie, putting the track pad left of center will only cause finger strain for me ;)

what do you think?

[MoparShaha]

Yeah, I've seen this too. It does strike me as odd. I would be interested to know the reasoning behind it.

[virividox]

now that iv read this post i want to know. i have noticed it before but it never occured to me or bothered me. NOW IT BOTHERS ME!!!

[johnnyjibbs]

Yes, it is very strange. I have to say, although I like 2 button mice, I can't cope with more than one trackpad button! Apple's trackpads are nice and central and make no preference for left or right handers! You can't accidentally press the wrong button either!

[Dunepilot]

I've got a feeling it's something to do with the processor size/ location of the optical drive. It is bloody wierd though.

But then, why should we be surprised by this, when you look at the absence of design virtue in many Wintel-compatible hardware products in general?

[sonofslim]

i believe that it's because this position puts the trackpad in range of your right index finger when, if your right hand is in the 'home' position on the keyboard (ever take a typing class?), you rotate it at the wrist -- think of a clock hand going backwards from 12 to about 9:30, with the origin of that arc being your wrist and the radius being along your index finger.

if the pad were offset to the right, it would end up obscured by your right palm and there's no way you'd be able to get a finger on it without moving your hand from its rest position -- ergonomically, an inefficient and wasteful movement.

[johnnowak]

Originally posted by sonofslim
i believe that it's because this position puts the trackpad in range of your right index finger when, if your right hand is in the 'home' position on the keyboard (ever take a typing class?), you rotate it at the wrist -- think of a clock hand going backwards from 12 to about 9:30, with the origin of that arc being your wrist and the radius being along your index finger.

if the pad were offset to the right, it would end up obscured by your right palm and there's no way you'd be able to get a finger on it without moving your hand from its rest position -- ergonomically, an inefficient and wasteful movement.

Its better than cranking your wrist 90 degrees left all the time. You'll have RSI issues in about a week.

[jxyama]

i *think* it's because most right handed people use the right thumb to hit the space key. so it would make more sense to let the left thumb do the tracking?

[takao]

hm i never noticed that hm ...but now im looking everytime iff its offset lol

the best ergonomical solution . im my opinion ist the red IBM trackpoint ...if your typing you dont have to raise your hand so workflow is much faster (if your used to it of course)

i would love a trackpoint in my desktop keyboard...

[amnesiac1984]

I think sonofslim is sort of right. It makes sense to have it left so you have space to rest your right hand on the big space on the right. Middle is better especially as not everyone is a rightie (moi!)

And jxyama, who uses their thumbs for the track pad anyway?

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by jxyama
i *think* it's because most right handed people use the right thumb to hit the space key. so it would make more sense to let the left thumb do the tracking?

Except I don't know of anyone that can use the trackpad with their thumb! Regardless it seems to me that in general PC uses regard the trackpad badly and will do anything to plug a mouse into their laptop asap.

[sparks9]

I have a trackpoint on my ibm. I think it's to the left so you can rest your hand on the computer while using the trackpad.

[Mr Maui]

Originally posted by spacepower
hello all

I am not sure if i am the only one that noticed?
Why do many PC laptops have an offset trackpad? The trackpad is offset to the left rather than in the center. Ironicaly it is offset to the left and not right, when the majority of the population is right-handed. Besides making their laptops ugly for not being symmetrical, it just plain seems odd to me.

I guess they have amazing marketing departments that either say that all the rich laptop buyers are lefties or they know something i have no clue abt.

Nothing against South-paws, but since i am a rightie, putting the track pad left of center will only cause finger strain for me ;)

what do you think?


Simple answer is ... PEE CEE

[stoid]

Originally posted by amnesiac1984
And jxyama, who uses their thumbs for the track pad anyway?

For quick tracking (for short quick navigations when I'm typing or web browsing), I do tend to use my thumb to do the tracking. However, for all other applications I use other fingers. Since a typical PC is used for typing, internet and games (gamers don't really use the trackpad anyway) and relatively nothing else, it would just make sense to make thumb-padding convenient.

[jxyama]

right... my point was not so much to exclusively use the left thumb on the trackpad. if you are typing, left thumb is *usually* the only free finger, so if one didn't want to disturb the typing but still wanted a quick and short access to the trackpad, i thought it would make sense to flush the trackpad to the left, closer to the left thumb.

[Hodapp]

The track pad is centered to the center of the space bar! So blame the whole keyboard for being off-set. Here's a particuarly bad one: http://notebookforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96

Ahh well, I'd never buy a computer that isn't made by Apple anyway.

[airborne]

Originally posted by io_burn
Ahh well, I'd never buy a computer that isn't made by Apple anyway.
WHAT?! You wouldn't?! Not even a... Oh, yeah, I see what you're saying. PREACH IT, BROTHER, FROM THE MOUNTAIN TOP!!

http://www.thebailiwick.com/misc/appl4evr.jpg

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by io_burn
The track pad is centered to the center of the space bar!

Nice try, but that doesn't lend consistency either :( . The Hell Despiron on my desk (for work, ugh) has it's trackpad almost left justified with the spacebar.

And another thing I've noticed is that WinXP doesn't seem to have any preference for turning off click-on-trackpad functionality, yet seems to detect almost any movement on the damn thing as a click. I hate PCs...

[Hodapp]

Yeah, you've got to install the Synaptics touchpad driver to disable that, very irritating.

[Makosuke]

I've always wondered about that myself, and haven't come up with a satisfactory answer. I'm sure that the guess about it giving you room to rest your right hand on the computer while using the trackpad is correct, but that doesn't make it any less uncomfortable to use a trackpad with your wrist at that angle (certainly not how I hold my hand when using one), and it obviously discriminates against lefties if that's the case.

I'd like to weigh in on those IBM mid-keyboard pointers, though--yes, they're certainly efficient in that you don't have to move your hands to use them (cool for quick motions), but they're tremendously uncomfortable, slow, and generally annoying to use under any other circumstances at all.

Man, I hate those things.

Say, I'm curious--I seem to remember at the time Apple first put trackpads on their laptops PC laptops all seemed to have either the joystick thing or a trackball. Am I remembering wrong, or is this another Apple first they don't get credit for?

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by Makosuke
I've always wondered about that myself, and haven't come up with a satisfactory answer. I'm sure that the guess about it giving you room to rest your right hand on the computer while using the trackpad is correct, but that doesn't make it any less uncomfortable to use a trackpad with your wrist at that angle (certainly not how I hold my hand when using one), and it obviously discriminates against lefties if that's the case.

M$ makes mice that only fit righties, why shouldn't PC makers follow that trend :p .

I'd like to weigh in on those IBM mid-keyboard pointers, though--yes, they're certainly efficient in that you don't have to move your hands to use them (cool for quick motions), but they're tremendously uncomfortable, slow, and generally annoying to use under any other circumstances at all.

Man, I hate those things.

Me and my friends have a nickname for those things, but I don't think it would be very appropriate for these forums :D .

Say, I'm curious--I seem to remember at the time Apple first put trackpads on their laptops PC laptops all seemed to have either the joystick thing or a trackball. Am I remembering wrong, or is this another Apple first they don't get credit for?

Yes, Apple was the first to use the Trackpad, and at the time the PC press basically dismissed it. And then PC makers started using them. And then the PC press loved them. Figures :confused: .

[7on]

lol,I was helping this guy with his wireless connection on his PC laptop and kept accidentally clicking the left and right buttons at the same time (by clicking between them).

[Powerbook G5]

I fixed my girlfriend's roommate's laptop today and now that you mention it, the trackpad was off centered to the left, too. I really hated the thing because if you touch the right side, it scrolls when you don't want to, and if you touch the trackpad too hard it thinks you meant to click something and it kept moving icons and clicking back in My computer and closing the start menu when I didn't want to when all I wanted to do was move the cursor around to navigate.

[mkrishnan]

Originally posted by sparks9
I have a trackpoint on my ibm. I think it's to the left so you can rest your hand on the computer while using the trackpad.

The trackpoint *is* in the middle of the keyboard, in the sense that's exactly between your fingers in the "home" position....

My first laptop (Compaq Pentium/150) had a trackball, and although I didn't like that it gunked up, I still don't think anything came closer to a mouse. On my work laptop, I have a trackpoint and I use the mouse primarily, but every once in a while I use the trackpoint because it's right there.

On my iBook, I was assuming I wouldn't like the trackpad and bought a wireless mouse, but actually I hardly ever use it and mostly use the trackpad. But that may be because I've been working on the sofa lately.... :)

[patrick0brien]

-spacepower

Thank you.

You have the entire team up here in Montreal thinking about it - staring at our laptops in wonderment

[GroundLoop]

I don't have a laptop here in front of me, but the trackpad should be centered directly between the "g" and "h" keys of the keyboard. So, if the trackpad is to the left, you can blame oversized enter/return/shift/arrow keys and the fact that there are just more keys (one column) on the "right" side of the keyboard.

Hickman

[revenuee]

i like asymmetry

i'm a mac fanboy, zealot, or any other term you wanna call it ... but i think that you guys are just being anal retentive and actually looking for something to pick at.

[Macophile]

Originally posted by revenuee
i'm a mac fanboy, zealot, or any other term you wanna call it ... but i think that you guys are just being anal retentive and actually looking for something to pick at.

I second that. There are plenty of reasons to prefer Macs over PCs, but "Apple centers its trackpads" seems pretty...inconsequential. It's perfectly valid to ask why PC trackpads are off-center -- I certainly wondered the same thing the first time I noticed it -- but I don't understand why centered versus not is an integral part to what makes one better or worse than the other.

I also think that sonofslim is pretty close to right. For right-handers, they just have to rotate their wrists down to use the trackpads rather than shifting their whole arms or twisting their wrists to an uncomfortable angle to do so. It made sense at one time (for 90% of the population, anyway), but my guess is that most manufacturers are just copying the design without thinking about why it's like that. I don't know if Apple's way is better, but the symmetry helps maintain the clean, simple, straightforward design of their portables. (And keeps my left-handed girlfriend from cursing their good name.) If they did start to shift the pads to the left (or the right, for that matter), we'd probably all fall over ourselves to compliment them for their attention to detail and user-friendliness.

[Powerbook G5]

Yeah, Apple's trackpads aren't in the center of the home keys, but I find that it is exactly where I want it and it's dead center of the laptop itself. I personally rather have that since I am really anal about things being symmetrical in the first place.

[revenuee]

well here is a twist on things ...

the majority of the population may be right handed ... but macs being favored more by artists ... and it is suggested by physiologists that left handed people are more creative ... should that macs be more geared toward the good ole south paws?

[Powerbook G5]

I personally don't mind Apple being geared towards both ends since I am left handed and it's both rare and nice to have something that isn't right handed biased.

[mateft]

Also have you noticed that when a PC user uses a mac track pad they automatically think the track-pad click works. I hate it and all my mac friends never use this function.

I think its funny. They sit there and tap the pad to make it click and it does not. I laugh to myself and then say i have it disabled. They make a mac hating remark and move on with whatever they were working on.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by mateft
Also have you noticed that when a PC user uses a mac track pad they automatically think the track-pad click works. I hate it and all my mac friends never use this function.

I think its funny. They sit there and tap the pad to make it click and it does not. I laugh to myself and then say i have it disabled. They make a mac hating remark and move on with whatever they were working on.

wait ... so you just turned it off? when i get my laptop i will have that tap option?

[mateft]

i believe it is off by default. If you want to turn it on its under the mouse and keyboard pref pane.

[GroundLoop]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Yeah, Apple's trackpads aren't in the center of the home keys, but I find that it is exactly where I want it and it's dead center of the laptop itself. I personally rather have that since I am really anal about things being symmetrical in the first place.

This is definitely an isntance of Apple's form over function mentality. We have performed quite a few usability tests on trackpads and there are far fewer accidental track actions when the trackpad is centered with the home keys. I guess since Apple has the track click disabled by default, most users won't experience it. But, it is very annoying to me because I use the track click. When I am typing there have been many occasions that I have rested my right hand on the trackpad and accidentally moved my cursor. It is one of the few things that I find really bothersome about my PowerBook

Hickman

[jxyama]

Originally posted by mateft
i believe it is off by default. If you want to turn it on its under the mouse and keyboard pref pane.

yep, it's off by default. i know because i get pretty frustrated when i visit an apple store - all the trackpads don't respond to the tapping.

even if you turn tap-for-click on for all the accounts on your mac, it will still be off for the login screen. rather annoying, i must say, always takes me a while to realize that i need to actually click. and afaik, there's no way to change those settings for the login screen... is there? :confused:

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by Brian Hickman
When I am typing there have been many occasions that I have rested my right hand on the trackpad and accidentally moved my cursor.

I've always just used Mac OS X's ignore trackpad while typing to keep that away. But then, I also tend to have more issues with accidentally having two fingers on the trackpad than hitting it while typing (and I do have big clumsy hands :p ).

[Powerbook G5]

I'm left handed, so perhaps these issues with "resting their hand on the trackpad" if were centered wouldn't apply to me, which is why it has never been an issue. I do find using the trackpad on many PC laptops annoying, since I do accidentally hit the right button instead of the left one and now it makes sense since the trackpad is too close to my hand that where the left button should be, the right one is instead. This is just another example of the world being right handed biased, which really pisses me off at times.

[amnesiac1984]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I'm left handed, so perhaps these issues with "resting their hand on the trackpad" if were centered wouldn't apply to me, which is why it has never been an issue. I do find using the trackpad on many PC laptops annoying, since I do accidentally hit the right button instead of the left one and now it makes sense since the trackpad is too close to my hand that where the left button should be, the right one is instead. This is just another example of the world being right handed biased, which really pisses me off at times.

Do you have your mouse set up for leftie like me? It's hilarious when all my friends try to u se my powermac and every click they do, no matter how many times I warn them they try with the wrong mouse button and get really annoyed. On another note, why is it that all the nicest mice are designed for righties?

[spacepower]

"I second that. There are plenty of reasons to prefer Macs over PCs, but "Apple centers its trackpads" seems pretty...inconsequential. It's perfectly valid to ask why PC trackpads are off-center -- I certainly wondered the same thing the first time I noticed it -- but I don't understand why centered versus not is an integral part to what makes one better or worse than the other."

coming back to the start of the thread.

I stated that i didn't understand why one way was better than the other, off-centered vs centered. I was just curious that after so many years of all manufactures having centered track pads, now some, just on specific models, have off-centered the track pads.

I was wondering if they did eregomic(sp?) or marketing studies that suggested that left of center trackpads offer an advantage. I am curious if anyone has their corporate research studies available?

this thread was started as a curiousity, not a complaint.

so if any one has any insider info, please share with the rest of us :)

[GroundLoop]

Originally posted by spacepower
I was wondering if they did eregomic(sp?) or marketing studies that suggested that left of center trackpads offer an advantage. I am curious if anyone has their corporate research studies available?


It is ergonomically correct to have the trackpad centered with the home row (trackpad's vertical axis should run directly between the "g" and "h" keys). We have documented research proving this statement. Unfortunately, I work for a defense contractor so there are releasability issues. But, I would also be interested in published findings on this topic to see how congruent our research efforts have been.

Hickman

[KC9AIC]

At least the laptops don't have those awful keyboard belly button/eraser head tracking devices. I can't stand those!