Is this the October surprise? [Archive]

DakotaGuy

Oct 23, 2008, 11:12 PM

atszyman

Oct 23, 2008, 11:22 PM

Now I have been planning on voting for Obama, however this has me very concerned. I want to know the truth. If he was really born in Hawaii like he says then release all the documents.

Rest easy (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html).

Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.

BTW, McCain was born in Panama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain#Formative_years_and_education).

NT1440

Oct 23, 2008, 11:23 PM

BTW, McCain was born in Panama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain#Formative_years_and_education).

Has Mccain thought about using Van Halens song at rallies? mayb that would pump up the crowds instead of relying on smears.

3rdpath

Oct 23, 2008, 11:25 PM

well the WND pretty much discredits the whole issue on another earlier published page linked within the piece....

here tis (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214)

so why would the WND publish an accusation that they already reported in august to be bogus? i have my opinion...

mactastic

Oct 23, 2008, 11:31 PM

Has Mccain thought about using Van Halens song at rallies? mayb that would pump up the crowds instead of relying on smears.
Van Halen is already pissed (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/the_big_picture/2008/10/maybe-john-mcca.html) at McCain for using their song "Right Now" without permission. I'm guessing they wouldn't be any happier to hear him appropriate "Panama".

And they're not the only artists either. McCain apparently only believes in capitalism when it benefits him. Otherwise he feels that everyone else's labor is his for the taking. What's that called again? Oh yeah... communism. ;)

Oh, and to the OP... when you see an Obama smear on WorldNutDaily, don't take it too seriously.

Macaddicttt

Oct 23, 2008, 11:31 PM

Now I have been planning on voting for Obama, however this has me very concerned. I want to know the truth. If he was really born in Hawaii like he says then release all the documents.

Um, all the documents? You mean the one document that says where someone is born? Obama's already released his birth certificate. What's the issue? :confused:

Ugg

Oct 23, 2008, 11:33 PM

DakotaGuy

Oct 23, 2008, 11:33 PM

Rest easy (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html).

BTW, McCain was born in Panama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain#Formative_years_and_education).

Yeah I have already read all of that and it does look like a valid copy plus an official from Hawaii did confirm it is valid. Questions will remain however and I think if somehow this blows wide open before the 4th, it will cause a lot of people to rethink their decision. I was committed to voting for Obama, but I will be watching the legal developments in this case before I blacken in that oval.

Just do a Google search for Obama Birth Certificate there is a whole lot of new activity on this in the past 24 hours. There is even a person claiming now that the reason he won't release the actual long copy from the state is because Barack Obama, Sr. is not really his father. Frank Marshall Davis, Jr. is.

http://www.pr-inside.com/barack-obama-is-not-barack-obama-r875991.htm

All the Conservative Radio hosts are now picking up on this and saying the real reason he is going to visit his sick grandma in Hawaii is because he is trying to fix this issue.

Don't you think that the CIA or FBI or other official or unofficial government entity hasn't looked into this?

wnd is so incredibly biased it's not even funny. If you take them seriously, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in buying...

This is a non-starter.

Oh I would agree with that and I would add the NSA would also be all over it, however this could fuel a fire very close to an election.

NT1440

Oct 23, 2008, 11:36 PM

Yeah I have already read all of that and it does look like a valid copy plus an official from Hawaii did confirm it is valid. Questions will remain however and I think if somehow this blows wide open before the 4th, it will cause a lot of people to rethink their decision. I was committed to voting for Obama, but I will be watching the legal developments in this case before I blacken in that oval.

Just do a Google search for Obama Birth Certificate there is a whole lot of new activity on this in the past 24 hours. There is even a person claiming now that the reason he won't release the actual long copy from the state is because Barack Obama, Sr. is not really his father. Frank Marshall Davis, Jr. is.

http://www.pr-inside.com/barack-obama-is-not-barack-obama-r875991.htm

All the Conservative Radio hosts are now picking up on this and saying the real reason he is going to visit his sick grandma in Hawaii is because he is trying to fix this issue.

If this is true then i belive this belongs in the "republicans new low" thread.

Seriously, no one gets even remotely this far into a presidential race without the government making 100% sure they meet the requirements in the constitution.

ucfgrad93

Oct 23, 2008, 11:38 PM

I don't think there is any merit to this at all. If he really wasn't eligible to run for President, it would have come out a long time ago. I really doubt Hillary and the rest of the Democrats that ran in the primary would have just let that slide.

DakotaGuy

Oct 23, 2008, 11:44 PM

Here is a link to all the Conservative radio people that have picked up on it over the past 24 hours. I know these people are "blow hards" however I think this is what they are going to use as the "Ultimate Smear" If you can make people question their choice you can turn an election. I NEVER listen to these people, but this time they do have me questioning things a little bit. Now my state is going to go for McCain anyhow, so my vote doesn't mean much, however I just want to make sure I am actually voting for someone who is qualified to be our POTUS. I also agree that there is no way that the FBI, CIA and NSA would have ever let him get this far if he was a fraud. So I don't know.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810230020

atszyman

Oct 23, 2008, 11:46 PM

Yeah I have already read all of that and it does look like a valid copy plus an official from Hawaii did confirm it is valid. Questions will remain however and I think if somehow this blows wide open before the 4th, it will cause a lot of people to rethink their decision. I was committed to voting for Obama, but I will be watching the legal developments in this case before I blacken in that oval.

Just do a Google search for Obama Birth Certificate there is a whole lot of new activity on this in the past 24 hours. There is even a person claiming now that the reason he won't release the actual long copy from the state is because Barack Obama, Sr. is not really his father. Frank Marshall Davis, Jr. is.

http://www.pr-inside.com/barack-obama-is-not-barack-obama-r875991.htm

All the Conservative Radio hosts are now picking up on this and saying the real reason he is going to visit his sick grandma in Hawaii is because he is trying to fix this issue.

He's released more documentation on this than Palin did when the vicious rumor that Trig was Bristol's baby was started. Should we restart that rumor?

There is no way Obama could get this far without meeting the Constitutional requirements for President. Do you remember the end of the primaries and how nasty things got there? Clinton would have been all over this if there were even an ounce of truth in any of the claims.

This is pure desperation and fear mongering.

I also agree that there is no way that the FBI, CIA and NSA would have ever let him get this far if he was a fraud. So I don't know.

If you agree that there's no way Obama could have gotten this far as a fraud then you know, there shouldn't even be a question.

jplan2008

Oct 23, 2008, 11:48 PM

http://www.pr-inside.com/barack-obama-is-not-barack-obama-r875991.htm

All the Conservative Radio hosts are now picking up on this and saying the real reason he is going to visit his sick grandma in Hawaii is because he is trying to fix this issue.

Oh I would agree with that and I would add the NSA would also be all over it, however this could fuel a fire very close to an election.

Are you waiting to fill in the oval, or do you agree the NSA would be all over this?

I have never heard of a "vault" birth certificate that this guy you linked refers to. If someone asks me for my birth certificate, I give them a certified copy from whatever year, with a raised seal. If the certified copy isn't a forgery, is he trying to imply it's a conspiracy with officials in HAwaii, that's been going on for decades? And he even says Obama feels ambivalence towards his mother and grandmother because they deprived him of his real father (I'm sorry I gave this idiot a hit). I've never seen any evidence of ambivalence. I've never heard anything but respect, gratitude and love when he's talked about his grandmother, for example.

Yes, there's a lot of activity about this. McCain is down by double digits nationally in some polls. That's not just an electoral college landslide, that's a popular vote landslide (I don't believe it will end at double digits ahead, but it looks grave for McCain)

DakotaGuy

Oct 23, 2008, 11:58 PM

Are you waiting to fill in the oval, or do you agree the NSA would be all over this?

I have never heard of a "vault" birth certificate that this guy you linked refers to. If someone asks me for my birth certificate, I give them a certified copy from whatever year, with a raised seal. If the certified copy isn't a forgery, is he trying to imply it's a conspiracy with officials in HAwaii, that's been going on for decades? And he even says Obama feels ambivalence towards his mother and grandmother because they deprived him of his real father (I'm sorry I gave this idiot a hit). I've never seen any evidence of ambivalence. I've never heard anything but respect, gratitude and love when he's talked about his grandmother, for example.

Yes, there's a lot of activity about this. McCain is down by double digits nationally in some polls. That's not just an electoral college landslide, that's a popular vote landslide (I don't believe it will end at double digits ahead, but it looks grave for McCain)

Well I believe most states do have a long copy of your birth certificate. I know I have one that is in Pierre, SD, however whenever I have needed one I just get a certified copy from my county at the courthouse. Like I said, in SD as a Democrat my vote isn't going to make a difference, however I vote for our statewide and local races which do. I am just going to be watching this case with some interest. I am still planning on voting for Obama, however these questions don't give me a warm fuzzy.

The logical common sense side of me says there is no way that a person would ever get this far without being vetted 100%, however there is always that "what if" side of me too. Maybe I am the only person in the world like that, but I guess that is how I am.

Ugg

Oct 23, 2008, 11:59 PM

Are you waiting to fill in the oval, or do you agree the NSA would be all over this?

Yes, there's a lot of activity about this. McCain is down by double digits nationally in some polls. That's not just an electoral college landslide, that's a popular vote landslide (I don't believe it will end at double digits ahead, but it looks grave for McCain)

I think abercrombieboy is looking for an excuse not to vote for Obama.

There's nothing new about 11th hour smear campaigns and I'd love to see whose fingerprints this one is smeared with.

DakotaGuy

Oct 24, 2008, 12:04 AM

I think abercrombieboy is looking for an excuse not to vote for Obama.

I guess I did not realize that you have to be 100% behind Obama to be able to voice your opinion around here. In fact I probably would have voted for McCain if he would have picked someone decent for VP. I WILL NOT support him because I cannot stand Palin and do not want her ending up as President. If I don't vote for Obama I will find someone else down the ballot even though it will be a throw away vote.

My main motivation in going to the polls this year is to see that Senator Johnson and Rep. Herseth Sandlin are re-elected.

NT1440

Oct 24, 2008, 12:07 AM

I guess I did not realize that you have to be 100% behind Obama to be able to voice your opinion around here. In fact I probably would have voted for McCain if he would have picked someone decent for VP. I WILL NOT support him because I cannot stand Palin and do not want her ending up as President. If I don't vote for Obama I will find someone else down the ballot even though it will be a throw away vote.

I just dont understand how something so baseless (that youve admitted you know has no truth to it) can have you making second thoughts? This is what the GOP does, outrageous and simply stupid allegations. How they sway anyone with this crap is beyond me.

jplan2008

Oct 24, 2008, 12:11 AM

I am just going to be watching this case with some interest. I am still planning on voting for Obama, however these questions don't give me a warm fuzzy.

The logical common sense side of me says there is no way that a person would ever get this far without being vetted 100%, however there is always that "what if" side of me too. Maybe I am the only person in the world like that, but I guess that is how I am.

Yeah, I don't feel a warm fuzzy either, that people are still making these outrageous claims, and using his trip to visit his dying grandmother as the excuse for it.

Like factcheck.org says:

"Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A."

DakotaGuy

Oct 24, 2008, 12:14 AM

I just dont understand how something so baseless (that youve admitted you know has no truth to it) can have you making second thoughts? This is what the GOP does, outrageous and simply stupid allegations. How they sway anyone with this crap is beyond me.

Well I guess it has given me some second thoughts and maybe I am the only person that ever has those. I like knowing exactly who I am voting for. Like I said before when I cast my vote for Sen. Johnson or Rep. Herseth Sandlin I know exactly where those people came from. I can vote for McCain and know exactly where he came from, but I won't because I am not sure what planet Palin came from.

The first Presidential election I voted in was 1996. I voted for Clinton, 2000 voted for Gore, 2004 voted for Kerry, so yes I have been committed to the Democratic tickets. I voted for Obama over Clinton in the SD primary this year as well.

I have voted for Republicans for Governor over the years and a few local races, however I think you can see by my record I am not a person just saying I support Democrats to change other people opinions.

Ugg

Oct 24, 2008, 12:14 AM

Well I believe most states do have a long copy of your birth certificate. I know I have one that is in Pierre, SD, however whenever I have needed one I just get a certified copy from my county at the courthouse. Like I said, in SD as a Democrat my vote isn't going to make a difference, however I vote for our statewide and local races which do. I am just going to be watching this case with some interest. I am still planning on voting for Obama, however these questions don't give me a warm fuzzy.

The logical common sense side of me says there is no way that a person would ever get this far without being vetted 100%, however there is always that "what if" side of me too. Maybe I am the only person in the world like that, but I guess that is how I am.

I've done enough genealogical research in the past few years to be able to say with some certainty, that there's no way he would be able to get away with this.

Let's look at this scenario.

Whatever airline they flew from Kenya, back to the US has records of who was on board. There are of course no direct flights from Kenya to the US, they would have had to transit Europe, probably London. It's very possible that Obama's father would have needed a visa. Not only could they not fly direct from Kenya to the US, they also had to fly to Hawaii. In 1961 that trip would have taken probably three or four or five days. Who would do that with a newborn?

By the 1960s, the paper trail for such events was pretty solid. The state department would have all records pertaining to such a trip as well as the airlines and any countries that they transited en route. It's not unconceivable that there are people still alive who were friends, neighbors or coworkers of the Dunhams. A black baby born to a white mother was still somewhat of a rarity in 1961 and even ILLEGAL in some US states. This is something that people simply don't forget.

Did Obama's mother somehow know that her son would someday run for POTUS and race back so that her son's birth would be registered in the USA? I doubt it.

Look beyond the character attacks and into the cold hard facts.

gauchogolfer

Oct 24, 2008, 12:17 AM

MacHipster

Oct 24, 2008, 12:18 AM

Peace

Oct 24, 2008, 12:20 AM

Just another fear-based discussion..

more on the way I'm sure.

Just VOTE

DakotaGuy

Oct 24, 2008, 12:20 AM

I've done enough genealogical research in the past few years to be able to say with some certainty, that there's no way he would be able to get away with this.

Let's look at this scenario.

Whatever airline they flew from Kenya, back to the US has records of who was on board. There are of course no direct flights from Kenya to the US, they would have had to transit Europe, probably London. It's very possible that Obama's father would have needed a visa. Not only could they not fly direct from Kenya to the US, they also had to fly to Hawaii. In 1961 that trip would have taken probably three or four or five days. Who would do that with a newborn?

By the 1960s, the paper trail for such events was pretty solid. The state department would have all records pertaining to such a trip as well as the airlines and any countries that they transited en route. It's not unconceivable that there are people still alive who were friends, neighbors or coworkers of the Dunhams. A black baby born to a white mother was still somewhat of a rarity in 1961 and even ILLEGAL in some US states. This is something that people simply don't forget.

Did Obama's mother somehow know that her son would someday run for POTUS and race back so that her son's birth would be registered in the USA? I doubt it.

Look beyond the character attacks and into the cold hard facts.

I guess you do have some pretty good points. I think it will be interesting how far this goes in the last 10+ days though. I think they are going to try and open it up as the biggest smear ever in the history of politics. Time will tell.

NT1440

Oct 24, 2008, 12:20 AM

Well I guess it has given me some second thoughts and maybe I am the only person that ever has those. I like knowing exactly who I am voting for. Like I said before when I cast my vote for Sen. Johnson or Rep. Herseth Sandlin I know exactly where those people came from. I can vote for McCain and know exactly where he came from, but I won't because I am not sure what planet Palin came from.

The first Presidential election I voted in was 1996. I voted for Clinton, 2000 voted for Gore, 2004 voted for Kerry, so yes I have been committed to the Democratic tickets. I voted for Obama over Clinton in the SD primary this year as well.

I have voted for Republicans for Governor over the years and a few local races, however I think you can see by my record I am not a person just saying I support Democrats to change other people opinions.

Why does where they came from play a role in your decision in any way, shape, or form?

Am i wrong to assume voters vote on policy?!

DakotaGuy

Oct 24, 2008, 12:23 AM

You do realize that even if he was born in Kenya he could still be President, right? His mother is an American, and so he is too. He could have been born anywhere in the world and it wouldn't matter one whit.

This argument is silly.

http://genealogy.about.com/b/2008/08/30/is-barack-obama-really-a-us-citizen.htm

That article explains the law today and what the law was when Obama was born. It's pretty confusing and you would need a law degree to sort it all out.

NT1440

Oct 24, 2008, 12:27 AM

http://genealogy.about.com/b/2008/08/30/is-barack-obama-really-a-us-citizen.htm

That article explains the law today and what the law was when Obama was born. It's pretty confusing and you would need a law degree to sort it all out.

That all relied on him not being born in hawaii, he has the birth certificate, therefor all is moot.

jplan2008

Oct 24, 2008, 12:41 AM

http://genealogy.about.com/b/2008/08/30/is-barack-obama-really-a-us-citizen.htm

That article explains the law today and what the law was when Obama was born. It's pretty confusing and you would need a law degree to sort it all out.

You're taking a blog by a non-lawyer explaining the law, who only gave a partial quote of the law.
(g) changes the law retroactively as if it had been true at the time for anyone born after 1952-- that the citizen PARENT only needed to have lived in the U.S. for two years after age 14, instead of the five years that had been true previously.

(h) is for a MOTHER only, she only had to have lived in the U.S. for any period of time at any age, for kids born between 1934 and 1941.

(h) is moot. He would have been a natural-born citizen under (g).

It's all moot, because he was born in Hawaii.

Of course it's possible that there was a 47-year conspiracy because his grandparents and mother and Hawaiian officials and others have always known he'd want to run for president.

It's also possible aliens will invade on November 4 and take over the elections and elect Ron Paul.

Agathon

Oct 24, 2008, 01:44 AM

Otherwise he feels that everyone else's labor is his for the taking. What's that called again? Oh yeah... communism. ;)

Ahem.... Labour theory of value... ahem...

CorvusCamenarum

Oct 24, 2008, 02:24 AM

The Pennsylvania Democrat who has sued Sen. Barack Obama demanding he prove his American citizenship – and therefore qualifications to run for the office of president – has confirmed he has a recording of a telephone call from the senator's paternal grandmother confirming his birth in Kenya.

The issue of Obama's birthplace, which he states is Honolulu in 1961, has been raised enough times that his campaign website has posted an image purporting to be of his "Certification of Live Birth" from Hawaii.

Read entire article at link and comment...

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78931

Now I have been planning on voting for Obama, however this has me very concerned. I want to know the truth. If he was really born in Hawaii like he says then release all the documents.

Actually it's not just one lawsuit, it's three:
Berg vs. Obama et al in Pennsylvania. The stitch here is that Berg is now claiming that according to federal rules of procedure, since Obama failed to respond to the allegations within the time limit, he has in effect admitted the allegations are in fact true.
http://www.obamacrimes.com/
*Before you start lambasting me, yes that is Berg's site, yes I am fully aware it's biased, but everything else covering this has the same stuff to it. In no way do I support or endorse this guy, this is Berg's side of the argument, not mine, etc etc etc.*

Andy Martin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Martin_(U.S._politician)) has filed suit in Hawaii asking for access to Obama's complete birth certificate. From what I understand it's still pending. Yes, I am fully aware he's seems to be a first-class nutjob.

The third action was filed in Washington State. link here (http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20081014/BLOG13/810149964)

What I do find interesting is that these suits were all filed in heavy blue states, all filed in a fairly short window, and that apparently the mainstream media isn't going anywhere near this. It's also somewhat interesting that Obama decided to go back to Hawaii for a bit to visit his ill grandmother right when he would need to be in court dealing with this, maybe hoping to handle it quietly.

Peace

Oct 24, 2008, 02:34 AM

May I ask why there aren't people demanding McCain prove his citizenship ?

gregdrummeraz

Oct 24, 2008, 02:58 AM

If the my dream comes true about this.... What will happen if Obama is removed from the ballot, yet elected?

What would happen to Obama as a person?

gregdrummeraz

Oct 24, 2008, 03:00 AM

May I ask why there aren't people demanding McCain prove his citizenship ?

He already did didn't he considering Panama was US property when he was born, and he showed his birth certificate. If I am not mistaken, that is all that is necessary? :confused:

Ugg

Oct 24, 2008, 03:17 AM

If the my dream comes true about this.... What will happen if Obama is removed from the ballot, yet elected?

What would happen to Obama as a person?

Are you sure you don't mean unhealthy fantasy?

Even if it were found that he was born in Kenya, it won't affect his eligibility to be president. Should the Supreme Court step into the fray and rule against him, nothing would happen. He's a legitimate US citizen by whatever measure you choose.

Proving the circumstances of one's birth is impossible for any individual. While we were present, we had no control over the adults who were there to record the birth. All that Obama can do is present the evidence that he was given by his family. If they lied to him, what then?

Can you prove beyond a doubt where you were born?

gregdrummeraz

Oct 24, 2008, 04:54 AM

Are you sure you don't mean unhealthy fantasy?

Even if it were found that he was born in Kenya, it won't affect his eligibility to be president. Should the Supreme Court step into the fray and rule against him, nothing would happen. He's a legitimate US citizen by whatever measure you choose.

Proving the circumstances of one's birth is impossible for any individual. While we were present, we had no control over the adults who were there to record the birth. All that Obama can do is present the evidence that he was given by his family. If they lied to him, what then?

Can you prove beyond a doubt where you were born?

I personally can prove where I was birthed: Video! :cool:

There are a lot of others that can prove there birth. I personally want to believe he isn't a citizen. You know my opinion! I am not looking for fights, just posting my thoughts peacefully as you are. :)

I would like to know what would happen though, not your opinion on his citizenship.

rdowns

Oct 24, 2008, 05:37 AM

I personally can prove where I was birthed: Video! :cool:

There are a lot of others that can prove there birth. I personally want to believe he isn't a citizen. You know my opinion! I am not looking for fights, just posting my thoughts peacefully as you are. :)

I would like to know what would happen though, not your opinion on his citizenship.

No matter how hard I try, any response I have tried to write would result in a time-out or ban.

yg17

Oct 24, 2008, 06:48 AM

I personally can prove where I was birthed: Video! :cool:

There are a lot of others that can prove there birth. I personally want to believe he isn't a citizen. You know my opinion! I am not looking for fights, just posting my thoughts peacefully as you are. :)

I would like to know what would happen though, not your opinion on his citizenship.

And I personally want to believe McCain is a flesh eating alien from Venus :rolleyes:

Motley

Oct 24, 2008, 07:05 AM

And I personally want to believe McCain is a flesh eating alien from Venus :rolleyes:

Don't you dare try to lump him in with us! Even we have standards.

northy124

Oct 24, 2008, 07:21 AM

This thread is silly (To put it nicely), his mum is a US Citizen yes? Hence making him a US Citizen no matter where he was born and so eligible to run for presidency if he wants to.

@Motley LoL very funny;)

Cleverboy

Oct 24, 2008, 07:36 AM

This thread is silly (To put it nicely), his mum is a US Citizen yes? Hence making him a US Citizen no matter where he was born and so eligible to run for presidency if he wants to. Unfortunately, comments like yours only set these people off (those making the accusations). Most people don't realize that in order to be President, you MUST be a "natural born" citizen... meaning, you need to be born on U.S. soil (whether in a U.S. state, a foreign military base, or U.N. plot of land). This is actually a point of contention. So... don't get duped into thinking his parentage helps the question. The truth is, it doesn't NEED to. He was born here.

PolitiFact did a great article on this:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
And there’s the rub. It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible.

But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over.

There is not one shred of evidence to disprove PolitiFact’s conclusion that the candidate’s name is Barack Hussein Obama, or to support allegations that the birth certificate he released isn’t authentic.

And that’s true no matter how many people cling to some hint of doubt and use the Internet to fuel their innate sense of distrust. People are just hateful and conspiracy theorists are very ardent in their beliefs, because of the one abiding flaw that reality IS relative... and you can find things to keep questioning as long as you truly wish to. This fact escapes some people. You can question if the person next to you is actually human. You can question if something that appears green is ACTUALLY green. You can question whether the sun is the sun. Whether atoms exists. It goes on and on. That's why we have flat earthers. Why some people believe in a 6,000 year old earth, and why this election cycle is even competitive.

~ CB

leekohler

Oct 24, 2008, 07:55 AM

Now I have been planning on voting for Obama, however this has me very concerned. I want to know the truth. If he was really born in Hawaii like he says then release all the documents.

Doesn't sound like you've been planing to vote for Obama. Sounds like you're looking for an excuse not to. This has been debunked already. McCain supporters will do anything to make Obama seem foreign and "anti-American". Many of them are so racist it's ridiculous.

leekohler

Oct 24, 2008, 08:03 AM

I personally can prove where I was birthed: Video! :cool:

There are a lot of others that can prove there birth. I personally want to believe he isn't a citizen. You know my opinion! I am not looking for fights, just posting my thoughts peacefully as you are. :)

I would like to know what would happen though, not your opinion on his citizenship.

Please grow up- or at least stop posting here until you do. This is so ridiculous. You guys are so desperate. You can't believe a brown person might get elected.

atszyman

Oct 24, 2008, 09:59 AM

Unfortunately, comments like yours only set these people off (those making the accusations). Most people don't realize that in order to be President, you MUST be a "natural born" citizen... meaning, you need to be born on U.S. soil (whether in a U.S. state, a foreign military base, or U.N. plot of land). This is actually a point of contention. So... don't get duped into thinking his parentage helps the question. The truth is, it doesn't NEED to. He was born here.

Of course if you're going to start on that path McCain was born in Panama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain#Formative_years_and_education). Technically the Panama Canal Zone which has been subject to some of it's own Citizenship debates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_Zone#Citizenship)

Almost from the inception of the Canal Zone, questions arose as to whether the Zone was considered part of the United States for constitutional purposes, or, in the phrase of the day, whether the Constitution followed the flag. On July 28, 1904, Controller of the Treasury Robert Tracewell stated, "While the general spirit and purpose of the Constitution is applicable to the zone, that domain is not a part of the United States within the full meaning of the Constitution and laws of the country.[4]
In 1953, Congress passed legislation to specify the status of Americans born in the Canal Zone--and to exclude non-Americans born there from citizenship. Title 8, Section 1403 of the United States Code grants citizenship to those born in the Canal Zone with at least one parent who is a United States citizen. This differs from the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment which grants citizenship to all born in the United States, regardless of parental nationality.

Given that non-citizens born there are not given citizenship, and that it was not part of the United States within the "full meaning of the Constitution" any parsing of "Natural born citizen" to try and exclude Obama (which is pointless since he was born on US soil based on all of the evidence any claims to the contrary are no better than the rumors about Trig Palin) would also have implications for McCain.

Cleverboy

Oct 24, 2008, 10:26 AM

Of course if you're going to start on that path McCain was born in Panama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain#Formative_years_and_education). Technically the Panama Canal Zone which has been subject to some of it's own Citizenship debates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_Zone#Citizenship) None of that actually matters. Obama backs a law that would settle the murkiness of that issue as detailed in the original NY Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html?_r=1&oref=slogin).

Obama Backs Law Helping McCain
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/02/29/obama_backs_law_to_ensure_mcca.html
The McCaskill bill, submitted immediately after she scrawled it onto a notepad on the Senate floor in response to the Times story, would establish the eligibility of anyone born to a U.S. citizen who is serving overseas as an active or reserve member of the U.S. armed forces. The Arizona senator's father was a Navy officer serving in the Canal Zone when McCain was born there in 1936.

"Senator McCain has earned the right to be his party's nominee, and no loophole should prevent him from competing in this campaign," Obama said. People sitting around inventing facts are sad, sad little people.

~ CB

atszyman

Oct 24, 2008, 10:37 AM

None of that actually matters. Obama backs a law that would settle the murkiness of that issue as detailed in the original NY Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html?_r=1&oref=slogin).

Obama Backs Law Helping McCain
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/02/29/obama_backs_law_to_ensure_mcca.html
People sitting around inventing facts are sad, sad little people.

~ CB

It's all completely ludicrous anyway. We have an official birth certificate vouched for by a government official. Regardless, his mother was a citizen at the time of his birth. Why should the location of the physical act of his birth be of any consequence? He was a U.S. citizen at birth and has been his entire life.

I realize that "Natural born citizen" has been up for some debate and some claim that it means you have to be born on American soil. But really, in this day and age, why should the physical location of your birth matter? Based on this logic, a baby born to a veteran family while on a vacation in Europe would be ineligible to run for president, while a couple who sneaks across the border and gives birth in TX would have a child who is eligible to run for president?

gregdrummeraz

Oct 24, 2008, 11:31 AM

Please grow up- or at least stop posting here until you do. This is so ridiculous. You guys are so desperate. You can't believe a brown person might get elected.

What make's you so sure I'm white? You need to realize how immature your posts are by calling people offensive things like racists. I don't call you racist because McCain is close.

You have de-railed to many threads.... WAY too many threads!