agp g4 350mhz revival. will it work?

[the next reviva]

hey everyone! i was thinking of maybe gettin an old agp powermac, and kinda gearin it up for some minor graphics work and ilife 04 apps. goin through ebay (sucker heaven) i think i could make a nice lil system for pretty cheap. but maybe im ignorant.

powermac agp 350 - $300
Sonnet encore 800mhz g4 processor upgrade- $275
northwestern raptor 10k rpm 36gb hard drive - $130
radeon 7000 (if i find i need it) - $50?

so there we have my thoughts on a new system. would it work? any compatabities issues?would this system rum jaguar, panther, or X?i dont really mind usb 1.1 or pc100 ram (i already have a gig of ram) any thoughts on why this might be a bad idea. thanks for takin a look.

[MacsRgr8]

Sure!

Just one thing: it has AGP?
Maybe getting a better (Radeon 8500 / 9000) grfx card would suite you better?

I haven't heard of any compatibility issues with the Sonnet upgrade cards. Haven't had much experience: just one 1.2 GHz upgrade for a Cube, which works perfectly!

Have fun!

[crazzyeddie]

IIRC, the first APG Mac was 450mhz. Also, if you do get an AGP (G4) Desktop, then make sure you get a Geforce4MX or Radeon 9000 (or better), those cards will give you Quartz Extreme, which makes the OS much much faster.

You can expect to pay somewhere around $400 for a rock-gut AGP Powermac. If you want to burn DVDs, look at www.xlr8yourmac.com to see which DVD-R/W drives will work with iDVD/iTunes/Finder or else you will regret it later.

[the next reviva]

Originally posted by crazzyeddie
IIRC, the first APG Mac was 450mhz. Also, if you do get an AGP (G4) Desktop, then make sure you get a Geforce4MX or Radeon 9000 (or better), those cards will give you Quartz Extreme, which makes the OS much much faster.

You can expect to pay somewhere around $400 for a rock-gut AGP Powermac. If you want to burn DVDs, look at www.xlr8yourmac.com to see which DVD-R/W drives will work with iDVD/iTunes/Finder or else you will regret it later.

hey yeah they make 350's http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2784510535&category=14912

also, i cant take advantage of quartz extreme with a 8500?

and yeah, ill prolly get an aftermarket pioneer superdrive (the one in the emacs) for a hundred bucks or so.

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by the next reviva
hey yeah they make 350's http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2784510535&category=14912

also, i cant take advantage of quartz extreme with a 8500?

and yeah, ill prolly get an aftermarket pioneer superdrive (the one in the emacs) for a hundred bucks or so.

(Yes, the 350 and 400 MHz also had AGP configs)
Every AGP grfx card with ATi's Radeon chip, or nVidia's GeForce 2 or better will give you Quartz Extreme.
The Radeon 8500 and 9000 perform about the same. Both have 64 MB VRAM, both GPU clock about the same speed. But the 8500 also has TV out, which can come in handy. The 9000 supports ADC, but your G4 doesn't.
So I would go for the 8500! Gr8 card.

[crazzyeddie]

The 8500 will do Quartz Extreme, but costs as much or more than the 9000, and is no longer made, so whatever you buy is not under any sort of ATI warranty. The 9000 is the current card being sold in the place of the 8500.

Also, there was never a 350mhz G4 processor made. So either this is an after-market processor card installed in this machine or the seller is trying to pull something funny.

[the next reviva]

http://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/stats/powermac_g4_350.html

this is a bit more definite on the 350mhz issue:p

[crazzyeddie]

More: you might want to look at a machine like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2783641984&category=51034. Its not much more, and already includes the processor upgrade.

You might also consider this, as it appears to be a very good value for the money, and its a newer model, so everything in the machine is faster: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2783651008&category=51034.

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by crazzyeddie

Also, there was never a 350mhz G4 processor made. So either this is an after-market processor card installed in this machine or the seller is trying to pull something funny.

Watch out....

See this (http://www.apple-history.com/frames/?) to see for yourself.

The first G4's were 400, 450 and 500 MHz. But after a couple of months Motorola couldn't deliver the 500 MHz anymore (times were heading for the worst)... so Apple lowered the G4's to: 350 , 400 and 450 MHz.
The 350 (also the first 400) were both AGP and PCI grfx (actually the same as the B&W G3 config) configured.
Only about 18 months later was Moto finally able to deliver 500 MHz + G4's.... oef, we are glad with IBM

[crazzyeddie]

Actually, the 350mhz was ONLY PCI graphics, because it was, as you said, based on the B&W G3 motherboard. DO NOT buy a computer without an AGP slot!!!! This includes a 350mhz G4, also called Yikes!. Make SURE that the machine you buy has AGP, or else you are really setting yourself up for a disaster.

[the next reviva]

excellent excellent excellent:D

btw, anyone have any experience with the raptor, or a like drive? does the 10k rpm make a ton of difference? is it loud??

[the next reviva]

hmm it says in my link, that the 350 has an apg slot?

[MacsRgr8]

The 350 was based on both the "Yikes!" (G3 B&W, PCI grfx) as "Sawtooth" (AGP) model....

Both are possible!

Read this (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/stats/powermac_g4_350.html)

But I agree! Only buy if you are certain about the AGP grfx.

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by the next reviva
hmm it says in my link, that the 350 has an apg slot?

So yes! That could be perfectly true.
And if it does, it'll be good!

[crazzyeddie]

Since youre talking about a Raptor, im assuming youre going to add SATA to this machine? IMO, SATA is NOT worth it. They are louder, and they dont help that much. You would be better off spending that money on a 120GB+ ATA drive.

[MacsRgr8]

A 10k RPM SCSI disk is very fast... (eh.. SCSI 2 or 3) and can make alot of difference.
And don't forget that 128 GB is max volume on this IDE connector.
Maybe getting a ATA 100 (or 133) PCI card, with large (128 + GB) 7200 RPM disk is a good idea?

[the next reviva]

im rlly lookin for a fast drive? anyone know of a good 10k ata drive?

[crazzyeddie]

Why do you need this really fast drive? You said you were mainly going to be using iApps... more info would allow me to make a better recommendation.

[the next reviva]

hehe looks like im always one step behind

[ebow]

Originally posted by the next reviva
hey everyone! i was thinking of maybe gettin an old agp powermac, and kinda gearin it up for some minor graphics work and ilife 04 apps. goin through ebay (sucker heaven) i think i could make a nice lil system for pretty cheap. but maybe im ignorant.

powermac agp 350 - $300
Sonnet encore 800mhz g4 processor upgrade- $275
northwestern raptor 10k rpm 36gb hard drive - $130
radeon 7000 (if i find i need it) - $50?

so there we have my thoughts on a new system. would it work? any compatabities issues?would this system rum jaguar, panther, or X?i dont really mind usb 1.1 or pc100 ram (i already have a gig of ram) any thoughts on why this might be a bad idea. thanks for takin a look.

I totally understand the appeal of putting together a system yourself, but that all totals up to $755, right? I apologize if you already know this, but for around that price, you can get a refurbished eMac from the Apple Store. And for not much more, you can get a new one. Granted, the hard drive won't be as fast as the Raptor 10k RPM, and you won't have anywhere near the internal expandability. I believe your PC100 RAM will work, but PC133 might be required. Anyway, just throwing that thought out there.

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by crazzyeddie
Why do you need this really fast drive? You said you were mainly going to be using iApps... more info would allow me to make a better recommendation.

Yeah.

For normal use a 10k RPM disk is a bit overkill... ;)
And you are not looking for an exceptional fast Mac, :)

So why not stick to a modest 60 GB orso 7200 rpm ATA disk, connected to the internal IDE controller. You can always "upgrade" it even more with a SCSI 3 card, or ATA 133 with a faster disk.

[crazzyeddie]

The main advantage to getting a desktop machine is you can add alot to it, and swap things in and out. You can also add a dual processor upgrade later, if you feel like it, add more PCI cards, upgrade the graphics, etc.

eMacs are fine machines, dont get me wrong, and perhaps this might be a good starter machine for just the iApps?

[teeb]

hi all,

I have the 350 agp in question, and have upgraded with a sonnet 1ghz processor. This sytem works well for me with 10.2, garageband, photoshop etc. Runs dreary Halo well.

You will need a 64mb graphics card though as I found performance suffered with only 32mb.

Fear not though it will all work! Do look at the quicksilvers' as a possible without the upgrade costs might be worth a thought.

Written this on a pc, it pains me to say 1.7ghz amd not a patch on the above system^.

Good luck with your impending purchase.

[the next reviva]

haha you guys are prolly right. i suppose i dont rlly need the 10k, it jus sounds nice;) as for the emac, i really dun wanna be limited to expansion. as fast as new systems are coming out, i want this next system to linger a while b4 it goes to the heap

[MacsRgr8]

OK, the next reviva. Here is what I recommend:

(your config):
powermac agp 350 - $300
Sonnet encore 800mhz g4 processor upgrade- $275
___________________________

(I wouldn't do this):
northwestern raptor 10k rpm 36gb hard drive - $130
radeon 7000 (if i find i need it) - $50?

(my advice):
60 GB 7200 rpm ATA HD
ATi Radeon 8500 (make sure it has an AGP grfx slot)

(and install that 1 GB RAM!)

And have alot of fun with it!

[the next reviva]

thanx man! lookin forward to a new system

[crazzyeddie]

Something the poster might want to consider is an eMac. You can get them fully equipped with SuperDrive for $999. The eMac would be faster than an upgraded Powermac, unless you add a 1.2ghz or faster upgrade since the RAM and bus speeds of the eMac are faster.

If the poster is looking for a long-term solution in the desktop G4, he might be asking too much from it :) :) You need to remember that the Powermac would only have a 100mhz bus and 2x AGP, while the eMac has a 133mhz bus and 4x AGP, and the new G5's have 10 times the bus speed of that Powermac with 1000mhz and 8x AGP, plus SATA built in.

If I was planning on buying a machine just for iApps, and didnt need HEAVY processing power (G5-grade), I would definitely get an eMac. They are Apple's best current value. Later on, when the eMac becomes too slow for iLife '06 or the user outgrows the machine, G5 desktops will be alot less expensive and will be more current that an old G4 desktop is now, seeing as how PCs were much ahead of the Mac at the time with CPU, RAM, AGP and bus speeds.

However, I completely agree with the above post concerning the do's and don'ts of upgrading an old G4 tower.

[MacsRgr8]

Just let us know what you think of it. :)

[MacsRgr8]

True about the eMac.
Just two things:
1) the eMac has a built-in display. This can be an advantage or a disadvantage. Really depending on the the needs, i.e. got an LCD display already?
2) VRAM = max 32 MB, Radeon 7500.... Not all that gr8, I'm afraid. But this also depends on the needs of the poster.

So, have no display, couldn't care about gaming, no need for LCD?
Get the eMac

Got an LCD, want TV-out, like games?
Do the G4 + upgrades....

Tough one.

PS. Don't forget: The G4 350 is 4 (at least) years old. So is the motherboard, the IDE controller, USB ports, etc...

[MoparShaha]

I'm going to have to chime in here and say don't get an old Power Mac. An eMac would be a much better value. If you really want the tower configuration, cough up a little more for a single 1.25 GHz G4 Power Mac from Apple. This would blow away both the Sawtooth and the eMac, for only a little more money.

[MacsRgr8]

500 bucks is alot of money... (difference between eMac and Single G4 1.25)

Quickly summed up:

G4 350 + all "advised" updates: $ 750,- (included 1 GB RAM?)
eMac Combo: $ 799,- (128 MB RAM)
G4 1.25: $ 1299,- (256 MB RAM)

Edit: I do agree on the fact that the 1.25 Ghz will blow the "old" G4 away. And the fact that the 350 still is a 4 (and-a-half?) year old machine, may make you reconsider.

[the next reviva]

hmm very mixed opinions. monitors arent a problem ive got a few. lol. the problem with the extra money macs are that im lookin to get a mac straight from the money i make sellin my pc (prolly round 700) so i dunno if 1250 is in the cards right now. but as it turns out, i may be in the position to inherit an dp 1.25ghz g4:D :D

[cablemel]

Way off key maybe.... just so funny watching people post and trying to explain that the 350 was not a G4 nor did it have AGP when the links to apple and other things available proved this point. Just good humorous reading late at night :D

[blue&whiteman]

Originally posted by crazzyeddie
Actually, the 350mhz was ONLY PCI graphics, because it was, as you said, based on the B&W G3 motherboard. DO NOT buy a computer without an AGP slot!!!! This includes a 350mhz G4, also called Yikes!. Make SURE that the machine you buy has AGP, or else you are really setting yourself up for a disaster.

complete ignorance. I have a blue and white G3 upgraded to a G4. also, I have a radeon 7000 32mb pci video card in the 66mhz pci slot with a quartz extreme pci hack. for 2d its perfect, snappy, expose works well and I run my desktop at 1920x1440. saying pci would be disaster is a very wrong assumption and also gives very misguided information.

[mkaake]

Originally posted by crazzyeddie
Actually, the 350mhz was ONLY PCI graphics, because it was, as you said, based on the B&W G3 motherboard. DO NOT buy a computer without an AGP slot!!!! This includes a 350mhz G4, also called Yikes!. Make SURE that the machine you buy has AGP, or else you are really setting yourself up for a disaster.

seriously start checking out specs before you talk... you're likely to tell some people some real b.s. - just go to apple.com/support, click on specifications, and vioala - you can find out instantly that there is a 350 agp sawtooth, as people have been trying to tell you...

matt

<edit>

anyhew, i have an older friend who just wanted to do the same thing, and i really can't recommend it that much - but if you want to do it, get yourself an ati 8500 - you can flash the pc cards (just the 64 meg ddr cards) to a mac super easy, cause ati released an update that flashed the card without checking the rom first. so you can walk off with an 8500 nice and cheap like. you'd be stuck with a system running on a 100mhz bus, blah blah blah.

go inherit that 1.25 dual ;)

matt