Mac Pro, or not quite . . . (The question is: to buy or not to buy!)

[Mohummad.ali]

Halo everyone,

So, here goes: i wanted to buy a mac pro and a display of about 40 (<) inches, but then i found out the mac pro was unfairly over priced. I, then, set out to find out which set of hardware would be best suited to Mac OS 10 Leopard (and eventually Snow Leopard and so on!)
I have a budget of about 2200 Euros (as of now 2735.7 USD (according to Google)! ) but if i have to spend this much of money then obviously i am going to buy a Mac Pro and save me all the trouble, but if it is somewhere around 400 euros (500 dollars) cheaper than the original Mac Proi then i am going to go for it!
The following are the things i would be looking for in my Machine!

* I want to have 16GB ram (extendable would be great but not required),
* 2 TB of Harddisk (no externels please! i want them to be inside the trunk! )
* A powerful enough graphics card that can drive upto 40 inches of display! (i am planning ot buy a samsung TV or LG TV, and use it as my monitor, some comments on this would also be more than welcome! )
* I want to have 8 cores of processor (i got the idea from the original Mac Pro)
* WIFI
* Gigabite LAN
* bluetooth (but i can use dongle also, so . . .)
* i am going to use it as my personal pc so i dont need any RAID support!
* I want to install a true copy of Mac OS 10 Leopard on this dream machine because i want to give some credit (money) to apple too! so that means, i dont want to have to install iatkos or Kalyway or leo4all . . . on this machine!
* I just need to find out if it is worth to go out and buy every single piece of hardware to make a might machine or is it better to trust Jobs on this one, and buy a ready-to-rumble Mac Pro ? Please reply in detail! and sorry once again for my inablity to use the search form of this forum!
MfG
Ali Syed


P.S. i am a student and as all students am short on cash, it would be great if i could save some bucks on my new mac pro!

[grue]

In what particular form of reality is the Mac Pro "unfairly overpriced"? It's been shown plenty of times that you can't get a significantly cheaper machine with the same specs.

[Umbongo]

You are going to be looking at over €1750 just for two 2.83GHz 1333MHz FSB quad core processors and a motherboard. You can maybe do it for a fair bit cheaper than a Mac Pro if you go with used components from eBay or older hardware, but if you want OSX on an 8 core system then I'd go with the Mac Pro. If you don't mind sourcing components and researching what will work together and trying to get OSX to work on it then you can save some money and end up with similar hardware performance.

You haven't said what country you are in so I can't advise you specifically on where you mgiht be able to save money, but student discounts and refurb or used Mac Pros are an option in the US and the UK.

[Mohummad.ali]

i am from germany, by the way,

It means going for a mac would be a nice idea!
well i am still considering and weighing my options!

But you did not mention the monitor!
I wanted to use a Big (37+ inches) TV as a monitor with my mac pro!
what are the pros and cons there!

[grue]

i am from germany, by the way,

It means going for a mac would be a nice idea!
well i am still considering and weighing my options!

But you did not mention the monitor!
I wanted to use a Big (37+ inches) TV as a monitor with my mac pro!
what are the pros and cons there!

Pro: Big display.

Con: Even a 24" will have higher res.

[NRose8989]

Are you really excited or something?

Anywho, your not going to find ANYTHING that will have specs like that & run OS X without hacking it. Sorry, just bite the bullet and get the Mac Pro.

BTW yes connecting a 40" TV as a primary monitor would be pretty stupid in my opinion because regardless of your TV size (anywhere between 32" to 72") will only have a MAXIMUM resolution of 1920 x 1080 assuming the TV you get is 1080p (which BTW even a older plastic macbook could power).

Just get a 30" ACD

[sneezymarble]

In what particular form of reality is the Mac Pro "unfairly overpriced"? It's been shown plenty of times that you can't get a significantly cheaper machine with the same specs.

Not from a manufacturer but can get a significantly cheaper machine with higher specs if you build it yourself. Of course, the term "significantly cheaper" is undefined here and I think it's right that whether "cheaper" is "significantly cheaper" such that it would warrant a build over a buy is up to the individual. In other words, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule here. Also, it's important to recognize that if you build a Hack, then you are the support for your system. So, if you don't think cheaper is cheap enough and you want Apple support, then buying a system from Apple is a good choice.

So, the trick with Hacks is that with a properly configured Hack you have the option of overclocking so you don't have to buy the same chips that authentic Pros have in them. For example, the e5410 costs around $275 and will overclock from 2.33GHz to 2.8GHz with no additional cooling. I can't be certain but with some extra cooling and the right motherboard you might be able to get an e5410 to match the performance of the highest end Mac Pro. However, it's been my experience that server chips tend to not have the same ridiculous overclocking spreads that their desktop counterparts have. As an example, my Q6600 went from 2.4GHz to 3.6GHz stable on air cooling. That's quite insane if you ask me. Some people have been able to go even higher.

As evidence that you can build a system that would have the same performance for less, here's an 8 core, 8GB system I just put together on Newegg which will cost less than the bare bones 8 core from Apple.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4849/picture4nw1.png

Remember that you'll be overclocking the CPUs to 2.8GHz so that they'll be performing the same as the authentic Pros CPUs. Now, by comparison a bare bones 8 core Mac Pro will cost $2800 from Apple. Notice that the authentic Mac Pro will have a less powerful video card, 6GBs less ram, and 650GBs less hard drive space.

For a more direct comparison, here's an authentic Mac Pro and a Hack on Newegg configured to have nearly identical specs (after the overclock on the Hack). The only significant difference is the Hack will have a better video card simply because the 8800GTs are out of production and costs as much or more than the 9800s. Keep in mind that both systems are bare bones with respect to RAM and hard drive space.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3635/picture3ch7.png

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6327/picture2zc2.png

That's just about $1000 less than the authentic Mac Pro for the same performance. For $1000 you could add quite a bit of RAM and some extra hard drives. Also, keep in mind that with the Skulltrail motherboard and some additional cooling you might be able to get those cheap e5410s running faster than 3.2GHz. If that's the case, the value of the Newegg system would be quite high compared to an authentic Mac Pro. By comparison, just upping the Pros CPUs to two 3.2GHz chips and keeping everything else the same as it is above puts the total cost at $4550. The Newegg system, running at 3.2GHz wouldn't cost much more than $2000, assuming you had to buy better cooling.

I've actually been toying with the idea of moving to an 8 core system. It would cost me about $1000 after I sell off my CPU, RAM, and motherboard and buy 2 e5410s, 8GBs of DDR2 800 FB-DIMMs, and a Skulltrail motherboard. I'd still be coming out ahead even if I didn't overclock past 2.8GHz since the total cost of my current system was $1300 1 year ago. So, $1300+$1000 puts me at roughly $2300 for 8 cores at 2.8GHz, 8GBs RAM, 1TB HD space, 8800GTX 768MB, Dual Display, OSX 10.5.5. Not bad if you ask me.

[Darth.Titan]

As evidence that you can build a system that would have the same performance for less, here's an 8 core, 8GB system I configured on Newegg a few days ago.

Not quite. You only have one quad core processor on that list. How's it to be an 8 core system with just a single quad core cpu?

Better add another $275 to that build price.

[sneezymarble]

Not quite. You only have one quad core processor on that list. How's it to be an 8 core system with just a single quad core cpu?

Better add another $275 to that build price.

Ooops. You're right. Check the second list then. I copied and pasted that first Newegg list from a quad core discussion. I just forgot. The second Newegg list does have 2 quads listed.

Still, adding $275 to the first list keeps you well ahead of the game. Especially since that first Newegg list has a Bluray player, 8GBs of RAM, and a TB hard drive. So, that fact that you have to add an additional $275 to the first Newegg list doesn't undermine anything I said as far as I can tell.

EDIT: I fixed my first post. Thanks for pointing that out.

EDIT2: Here a quick comparison of what the OP is after. First, with a Mac Pro the smart thing would be to start with a bare bones 8 core and add hard drive space and RAM. The RAM part is a bit tricky since the bare bones Pro comes with 2GB in a 2x1GB configuration. The OP wants 16GB. We definately do not want to use 14 more 1GB FB-DIMMS (that's not even possible is it?). The most economic method to get to 16GB would be to go with 4x4GB. The problem is that there's no way to do that if you already have 2x1GB. You could buy 4x4GBs of RAM and throw the other stuff out. Or, you could keep it for a total of 18GBs. Now, I don't know how the server motherboards handle this but on desktops when you mismatch like that you can hurt performance. Maintaining solid performance would be the reason for just tossing the old RAM out. Since I'm unsure on this let's just assume that you keep the old RAM for a total of 18GB. So, at least one nice thing about your own build is that you get exactly what you want without paying for stuff you might not use. Setting that aside, I'll just add 2x1GBs to the Newegg list to be overly fair.

Newegg System = $3492.88
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/634/picture6oz4.png

Apple + Upgrades from Newegg = $4408.99
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3635/picture3ch7.png
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/8976/picture7dy1.png

[tribe3]

If you count in the one year warranty and resale value of a real Mac than the numbers might not add up. Anyway it might be a fun project if you have the time and will to do it.

[sneezymarble]

If you count in the one year warranty and resale value of a real Mac than the numbers might not add up. Anyway it might be a fun project if you have the time and will to do it.

I pointed that out in my first post. For some people, those things hold little value. Since I feel perfectly capable of supporting my own machine with respect to both hardware and software, I don't see much value in warranties and such. For some people, building a system is clearly not the way to go and buying a Mac Pro from Apple holds a lot of value.

[kellen]

Are you going to be using any apple apps? If so just get the mac pro. Its not overpriced for what you get.

Sounds like you want alot with not that much of a budget. 2700? Just your display you want will run you ~ a third, then 16gb ram, 2tb?

You going to be using that as a student? Go with the base 8 core mac pro, up the ram to 4 or 6GB and buy a 24" monitor. I don 't even think you have enough for that.

Cut your list or get some money.

[sneezymarble]

Are you going to be using any apple apps? If so just get the mac pro. Its not overpriced for what you get.

Sounds like you want alot with not that much of a budget. 2700? Just your display you want will run you ~ a third, then 16gb ram, 2tb?

You going to be using that as a student? Go with the base 8 core mac pro, up the ram to 4 or 6GB and buy a 24" monitor. I don 't even think you have enough for that.

Cut your list or get some money.

Yeah, there's just no way to get 8 cores at at least 2.8GHz, with 16GBs of RAM, 2TBs of hard drive space and a 40" 1080p HDTV. My argument is that you can get closer to what you want on your budget by building than by buying an authentic Mac. But still, even building your own will put you over $2700. And, ultimately, you've got to decide if building it is something that you can do and do comfortably at the exclusion of warranties and so on.

Also, I don't quite understand the 40" HDTV part. You're looking at at least $1000 for a 40" 1080p LCD. By comparison a 24" LCD that can do 1920x1200 will cost somewhere around $400.

[CaptainChunk]

Mohummad.ali,

What are your specific needs with this machine? First, I highly doubt you actually need 16GB of RAM unless you're doing some fairly serious multitasking with several memory-hungry professional applications.

Secondly, using an LCD TV as your primary display is unwise. None of them are truly optimized for computer graphics. For example, a lot of them overscan the incoming image to make things broadcast-safe because after all, they are TVs. Very few models let you adjust overscan, let alone disable it completely. And like stated before, 1920x1080 resolution will be the best you'll ever be able to get in an LCD TV (assuming a 1080p native panel), regardless of size.

[phrehdd]

Halo everyone,

So, here goes: i wanted to buy a mac pro and a display of about 40 (<) inches, but then i found out the mac pro was unfairly over priced. I, then, set out to find out which set of hardware would be best suited to Mac OS 10 Leopard (and eventually Snow Leopard and so on!)
I have a budget of about 2200 Euros (as of now 2735.7 USD (according to Google)! ) but if i have to spend this much of money then obviously i am going to buy a Mac Pro and save me all the trouble, but if it is somewhere around 400 euros (500 dollars) cheaper than the original Mac Proi then i am going to go for it!
The following are the things i would be looking for in my Machine!

* I want to have 16GB ram (extendable would be great but not required),
* 2 TB of Harddisk (no externels please! i want them to be inside the trunk! )
* A powerful enough graphics card that can drive upto 40 inches of display! (i am planning ot buy a samsung TV or LG TV, and use it as my monitor, some comments on this would also be more than welcome! )
* I want to have 8 cores of processor (i got the idea from the original Mac Pro)
* WIFI
* Gigabite LAN
* bluetooth (but i can use dongle also, so . . .)
* i am going to use it as my personal pc so i dont need any RAID support!
* I want to install a true copy of Mac OS 10 Leopard on this dream machine because i want to give some credit (money) to apple too! so that means, i dont want to have to install iatkos or Kalyway or leo4all . . . on this machine!
* I just need to find out if it is worth to go out and buy every single piece of hardware to make a might machine or is it better to trust Jobs on this one, and buy a ready-to-rumble Mac Pro ? Please reply in detail! and sorry once again for my inablity to use the search form of this forum!
MfG
Ali Syed


P.S. i am a student and as all students am short on cash, it would be great if i could save some bucks on my new mac pro!

Just a reiteration of what others have said...

1) - bigger screen does not mean needing a power video card. The resolution of your screen and what you plan to do might determine the kind of video card you would need.

2) - TV screens don't make the best monitor. Get your TV and invest also in a regular monitor. Your vid card should be able to handle connections to both on the Mac Pro.

3) - 16 gigs of RAM. This will surprise you but many apps wont run "faster" with 16 gigs as opposed to 8 gigs. You need to research what apps you want to run then decide if you want to go beyond 8 gigs.

4) - If you are going to get all this "power" in a system then do consider
potentially using internal OS based raid for part of your system. (all in the trunk <grin>). With the prices of hard drives you could easily raid 3x500 drives then the 4th drive would be a 1.5 for back up and raid failure if it should happen. Just make sure the 500gig drives are the same model/make.

5) - Mac Pro is a fair priced item if you get 1 drive, min RAM and the appropriate graphics card. You should consider adding your own drives and RAM which will be cheaper than thru Apple. Neither negates your warrantee.

6) - If you plan to do gaming that requires Windows, go to boot camp rather than a virtual of windows (VMware Fusion or Parallels). If you just need Windows for some typical apps (Word or Excel etc.) then virtual is the way to go.

I have an older Mac Pro quad 2.66 with 9 gigs RAM, ATI 1900 card and use internal raid. My applications for work are photoshop CS3 and Lightroom along with similar art/graphics progs. I use Fusion with XP for my fun stuff such as backing up my blu ray movies (AnyDVD HD and TSMuxer). My system is FAST. Only thing slowing it down are the applications themselves and the way they are written.

Hope this helps and you enjoy whatever you end up getting.

[wheezy]

I know you plan on doing overclocking, but if you're going to compare specs across the board, then use the same processors if you want to call the MacPro 'unfairly' overpriced.

On Newegg, a 2.83Ghz Harpertown Quad Core CPU is $720 EACH (Link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117144). That puts you at over $1400 just for the processors.

I know you mentioned overclocking, but it bugs me to hear you say that the MacPro is overpriced when you don't show the correct retail price for the MP component.

PS - You're much better just buying the MP as opposed to building you're own monster. The MP tower is amazing as far as the internal cable-less layout, cooling, it's so quiet and it looks an awful lot better. Plus, it's supported by Apple 100% so any issues you may have will be covered by AppleCare.

[Mohummad.ali]

Are you going to be using any apple apps? If so just get the mac pro. Its not overpriced for what you get.

Sounds like you want alot with not that much of a budget. 2700? Just your display you want will run you ~ a third, then 16gb ram, 2tb?

You going to be using that as a student? Go with the base 8 core mac pro, up the ram to 4 or 6GB and buy a 24" monitor. I don 't even think you have enough for that.

Cut your list or get some money.

Sorry friend, i guess i wasn't clear enough
the 2700 USD or 2200 Euros was the budget JUST for the tower.
The Monitor (or the TV) would be extra!
I haven't seen my bank statement for a while, but i still think i might be able to pull that off :)
but thanks for worrying for my finances!

[Mohummad.ali]

Mohummad.ali,

What are your specific needs with this machine? First, I highly doubt you actually need 16GB of RAM unless you're doing some fairly serious multitasking with several memory-hungry professional applications.

Secondly, using an LCD TV as your primary display is unwise. None of them are truly optimized for computer graphics. For example, a lot of them overscan the incoming image to make things broadcast-safe because after all, they are TVs. Very few models let you adjust overscan, let alone disable it completely. And like stated before, 1920x1080 resolution will be the best you'll ever be able to get in an LCD TV (assuming a 1080p native panel), regardless of size.

thanks for the helpful response! (i have taken a leaf from Obama's book! :) )
well, i must acknowledge, with your first question you ruffled my feathers!
i, actually, do not have a lot of computing to do with my pc.
I am just a bit over ambitious i guess,
it is like buying a Porsche (for non european friends: Ferrari), you don't really need the car, or the power, you are probably never going to be able to unleash the complete power of the engine (unless you happen to find yourself in Germany on a no-speed-limit Autobahn! with out the traffic i.e. )
So, I hope I made my case :) but i still admit, i don't really need the power, but I want it :D

If I am little dishonest, i could make a point by saying i am an Automation Engineering student, and i need to buy this computer because i often need to do stuff that requires a lot of computing (********! my laptop tablet is more than sufficient for all my computing needs :D )


now come to the real business!
I have a question!
the best possible resolution an ACD 30" can muster is: 2560 x 1600
isn't there any way to get that sort of resolution without spending more than 1700 € ?

Ok, ok, i would settle for a 30" display, but would be great not to spend that much of money on a display!
chao

[Umbongo]

Ok, ok, i would settle for a 30" display, but would be great not to spend that much of money on a display!

You can try and find a used or refurbished 30" display otherwise you are going to probably going to be paying around €1,500. The following displays are ones you might want to search for.

Dell 3007WFP
Dell 3007WFP-HC
Dell 3008WFP
30" Apple Cinema Display
Samsung SM-305T
HP LP3065

[sneezymarble]

I know you plan on doing overclocking, but if you're going to compare specs across the board, then use the same processors if you want to call the MacPro 'unfairly' overpriced.

On Newegg, a 2.83Ghz Harpertown Quad Core CPU is $720 EACH (Link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117144). That puts you at over $1400 just for the processors.

I know you mentioned overclocking, but it bugs me to hear you say that the MacPro is overpriced when you don't show the correct retail price for the MP component.

PS - You're much better just buying the MP as opposed to building you're own monster. The MP tower is amazing as far as the internal cable-less layout, cooling, it's so quiet and it looks an awful lot better. Plus, it's supported by Apple 100% so any issues you may have will be covered by AppleCare.

The point of building your own Hack is to get the same performance. If the point were just to use the exact same parts then you would end up spending just about as much as a regular Mac Pro. However, I do agree that if you use the exact same parts and build that exact system yourself you're not going to come out better than if you just bought a Mac Pro. In that sense the Mac Pro isn't unfairly overpriced. It's actually priced pretty well I think. But the point isn't having the same stuff. It's getting better performance for less money. Which can be done quite easily.

[wheezy]

The point of building your own Hack is to get the same performance. If the point were just to use the exact same parts then you would end up spending just about as much as a regular Mac Pro. However, I do agree that if you use the exact same parts and build that exact system yourself you're not going to come out better than if you just bought a Mac Pro. In that sense the Mac Pro isn't unfairly overpriced. It's actually priced pretty well I think. But the point isn't having the same stuff. It's getting better performance for less money. Which can be done quite easily.

I do agree with that, getting the same performance for less is totally ideal; I just had to 'defend' the cost of the MacPro.

[wheezy]

now come to the real business!
I have a question!
the best possible resolution an ACD 30" can muster is: 2560 x 1600
isn't there any way to get that sort of resolution without spending more than 1700 € ?

Ok, ok, i would settle for a 30" display, but would be great not to spend that much of money on a display!
chao

The best resolution any monitor can muster is 2560x1600 and that's an awful lot of real estate. It sounds to me like you're really just going for bragging rights on your whole system; which is fine :) When you get your system set up and you have a 30" monitor right in your face you'll be plenty satisfied with how much screen you have.

If anything I would wait on getting 4GB sticks of RAM as they are pricey; you can fill up a MP Tower with 2GB (x8) sticks to hit your magical 16GB barrier and I think you'll save a little bit going that route.

[Mohummad.ali]

thank you very much people! i am really really excited,
You have obviously have made a very good case for Mac Pro :apple:
and actually i myself dint need a lot of convincing, i am a die hard mac fan,
I have bough 3 apple computers (for friends!!), actually people in my hostel have started believing that i get some commission every time i talk somebody into buying a mac!

[ThirteenXIII]

8-cores would be terrific to have, but in actuality...what is the need for that much overkill?
even 4-cores is plenty. i suppose its not as exciting as having 8 total cores.
the only problem i find is that theyre not true quad core (just as far as im aware are 2 Dual Core chips on one-single processor).

However its $500 saved for having a single cpu that can go towards memory, graphics cards, harddrives or your large display.

i have a first gen 4 core that is plenty powerful with 8gb of memory and an updated graphics card that runs powerfully enough.


either way youre going ot find an awesome deal with the macpro.
i spec'd out a few custom built machines and you just dont get the same deals (i mean hardware is pretty cheap to come by, but then you deal with variety of warranties, possibly driver or hardware conflicts), so is it worth it when you can get it all in one fell swoop?
I like the fact i can still use windows and slap in a graphics card for windows gaming when ever i want, i dont mind too much OSX doesnt support them, it beats having to maintain two physical systems. (and besides i ahte having to go under the hood of my computer every now and then).

but good luck in your choice, post back with waht you end up putting together for yourself!

[NewSc2]

What do you need so much RAM for? If you're a student and money is limited, save your money. Unless you're using some very heavy apps, like in video production, 16GB of RAM is just a waste of money. You can (and should) wait till later when RAM prices fall. Start out with, like, 4-8GB.

Also a big screen TV, i.e. 40" LCD+ is NOT a good choice for a monitor. The screen resolution is so small you would only be able to fit a couple web pages side by side. A 30" Apple or Dell display has around 4 times the resolution to display more windows.

Honestly, it seems like you're kind of reaching for the stars (sorry to put it so bluntly). If you have the money to burn, go for it, but if you don't, you would probably do fine with an iMac or with a MBP driving an external monitor. If you have no real need for all that computing power, don't force yourself to get one.

I'm currently looking to get a Mac Pro, but I actually write music and have been hitting my MBP's ceiling. I've used it for a couple years just fine, though, playing many games (not on high settings) and writing a lot of music. I hook my Macbook Pro to my 30" ACD and it works just great.

[Mohummad.ali]

I like the fact i can still use windows and slap in a graphics card for windows gaming when ever i want, i dont mind too much OSX doesnt support them, it beats having to maintain two physical systems. (and besides i hate having to go under the hood of my computer every now and then).

could you please elaborate !
you mean the graphics card that comes with the Mac Pro doesnt support windows? :eek:

[CaptainChunk]

could you please elaborate !
you mean the graphics card that comes with the Mac Pro doesnt support windows? :eek:

No, the stock Apple graphics cards actually DO support Windows. It's just that a lot of Mac Pro owners that also game under Windows prefer to slap a faster graphics card in the second x16 slot for exclusive use under Windows. But this isn't necessarily a requirement...

Alternatively, the GeForce 8800 GT option from Apple isn't a bad choice to use both under Mac OS and Windows. It has pretty reasonable gaming performance.

[nanofrog]

The ATI HD3870 Mac & PC edition (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/ATI%20Technologies/100435928/) is also worth considering for a single graphics card solution that will work in both OS X and windows. :)

Barefeats did a comparison between the 8800 and the 3870.
Core Image (http://www.barefeats.com/harper16.html)
Gaming (http://www.barefeats.com/harper17.html)

Hope this helps. :)

[sneezymarble]

The ATI HD3870 Mac & PC edition (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/ATI%20Technologies/100435928/) is also worth considering for a single graphics card solution that will work in both OS X and windows. :)

Barefeats did a comparison between the 8800 and the 3870.
Core Image (http://www.barefeats.com/harper16.html)
Gaming (http://www.barefeats.com/harper17.html)

Hope this helps. :)

It's hard to recommend an ATI card right now. If you only use OSX ATI can be a good choice since once Snow Leopard is out you should still get GPU acceleration in non-graphics tasks with an ATI card. But, if you Boot Camp to Windows, you get the better GPU acceleration in non-graphics tasks through nVidia via CUDA. I heard some rumor that ATI was going to adopt CUDA but I've not looked into that. So, as it stands, you get more complete support in both OSs using an nVidia card. Plus, if you do any gaming, nVidia just has better driver support in Windows.

[Mohummad.ali]

hello once again,
I have heard the new mac pros are going to be released soon. In fact, in macrumors.com it says do not buy, will be upgraded soon!
Is it true?

[Umbongo]

hello once again,
I have heard the new mac pros are going to be released soon. In fact, in macrumors.com it says do not buy, will be upgraded soon!
Is it true?
They will probably be shipping sometime between the middle of January and April.

[sash]

but then i found out the mac pro was unfairly over priced.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here. Mac Pro is probably the best priced brand workstation in the industry. Just go to the Dell store and try to build yourself comparable workstation: it'll cost you 1,5-2 times as much. Mac Pro is amazingly fair priced.

sash

[sash]

hello once again,
I have heard the new mac pros are going to be released soon. In fact, in macrumors.com it says do not buy, will be upgraded soon!
Is it true?

Based on the Apple sales history -- yes, in most probability. But bear in mind, it's a rumours forum. Nobody knows here nothing for sure.

sash

[gotzero]

It does not sound like the OP needs the machine in the first place. I would look out for a cheap used one, or get a different member of the line.

[Mohummad.ali]

Hello people,
the Mac Pro is on hold right now (i have driving test on 29 of November and as soon as i pass (!!) the test i am going to get myself a car, and i am not sure how much it is going to cost, so Mac Pro has taken a back seat for the moment! ), but i have another question! i have a 11 year old, and i wanted to give her a Computer as Christmas present. Obviously she doesn't need a high end computer, she just needs a simple computer that can play games like: Kung Fu Panda, and stuff like that.
My budget is 400 euros!!!!
This desktop computer is supposed to be for this 11 year old, but if i could execute my evil mad scientist experiments on it, it would be a plus! :D

i was wondering if there was a particular set of machinery that would also let me install some hacked version (for example iAtkos!) of Mac OS 10, beside windows xp (or perhaps even vista), without eating into my car?
i mean i just want to spend 400euros, i already have the monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers!

Is it possible to get a pc, that play some modern games (doesn't need to be breath taking, the pc should only be able to run modern games, in budget!!!)
thanks in advance for great help you guys put up!

[apolloa]

Hello people,
the Mac Pro is on hold right now (i have driving test on 29 of November and as soon as i pass (!!) the test i am going to get myself a car, and i am not sure how much it is going to cost, so Mac Pro has taken a back seat for the moment! ), but i have another question! i have a 11 year old, and i wanted to give her a Computer as Christmas present. Obviously she doesn't need a high end computer, she just needs a simple computer that can play games like: Kung Fu Panda, and stuff like that.
My budget is 400 euros!!!!
This desktop computer is supposed to be for this 11 year old, but if i could execute my evil mad scientist experiments on it, it would be a plus! :D

i was wondering if there was a particular set of machinery that would also let me install some hacked version (for example iAtkos!) of Mac OS 10, beside windows xp (or perhaps even vista), without eating into my car?
i mean i just want to spend 400euros, i already have the monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers!

Is it possible to get a pc, that play some modern games (doesn't need to be breath taking, the pc should only be able to run modern games, in budget!!!)
thanks in advance for great help you guys put up!

Wait for he rumoured updated Mac Mini? Or buy a Dell or build it yourself?

[Mohummad.ali]

i wanted to build my own, i thought i would more effectively meet the budget and get a tailored computer, that would run Mac OS 10 and windows acceptably well
i have been also flirting with the idea of running windows vista natively and having Mac OS 10 installed on VMWare or any other virtual machine software!
is that possibe?
and again! what main board, what processor, what and how much ram, and what graphics card, should i opt if main purpose is to run games, like Kung Fu Panda and also run Leopard!!!
400 euros limit! :D
i know it is a challenge, but i have come to believe that you guys here like challenges!

p.s. sorry but mac mini is not an option, i just feel if i pay 400 euros for a computer, i shuold be allowed to do anything with the hardware, i should be able to upgrade the hardware as i will. in this price range i want to have more rights of the product than, say, Mac Pro, where i would just go with the end product!

[richard.mac]

Ooops. You're right. Check the second list then. I copied and pasted that first Newegg list from a quad core discussion. I just forgot. The second Newegg list does have 2 quads listed.

Still, adding $275 to the first list keeps you well ahead of the game. Especially since that first Newegg list has a Bluray player, 8GBs of RAM, and a TB hard drive. So, that fact that you have to add an additional $275 to the first Newegg list doesn't undermine anything I said as far as I can tell.

… cut out edits and images …

firstly, i agree that buying third party upgrades is a cheaper option. but theres quite a few things wrong with your Newegg order.

1. The Mac Pro has a 1000W PSU and i wouldnt really trust that Coolermax one. Corsair make some of the best and quietest in the industry.
2. doesnt have dual heatsinks for dual CPUs
3. doesnt have Firewire 400 & 800 or Bluetooth
4. doesnt have iLife '08 which is included with all Macs
5. total doesnt include tax and shipping

then theres the OEM warranty from Apple which covers all the parts which would appeal to consumer customers and professionals looking to get the work done. also these users would probably not want to even go near the process of overclocking and just want a fast, stable machine that doesnt overheat and make a lot of noise.

http://picimg.com/uploads/1f662c42fbb31e9ed5306579afc4ede7.png

the grand total comes to $3510 (iLife '08 retail was not available)

heres the Mac Pro with the 8800GT and shipping for the same zip code.

143651

the Homebuilt Mac Pro ends up being about $318 more expensive so i think the Mac Pro is a very good price. also an even better bargain when considering the design, OEM warranty, runs OS X and Windows stable, no hacking and of course… the startup chime!

[xparaparafreakx]

The Mac Pro you built does not have a Geforce 8800GT. However if you did add it, it would still be cheaper then the newegg order.

[richard.mac]

^ oh yeh! sorry i rushed it a bit, but i still get the concept… changed it.

[xparaparafreakx]

That price is retail price. Buying on amazon allows you to dodge taxes and get a nice rebate. Then you can add a Geforce 8800GT, Radeon 3870 or two for crossfire. If your going to do a lot of time on PC, get a GTX 280 or some kind of insane card and hotwire it. It would still be cheaper then what you would be paying to built a Mac Pro.

[richard.mac]

my point is the Mac Pro is a great buy for a user that takes advantage of all the power whether they be professional or not.

if youre a gamer just buy/build a $1000-$1500 rig and spec it out with graphics cards. you could still install OS X on it but you would have to use an 8800/9800GT or similar as the stock graphics card.

[Mohummad.ali]

hello peopple i think you are missing the point here. I think i mentioned an 11 year old, A car and it's back seat, 400€, Kung fu panda. And a home built computer with leopard (iAtkos) and vista ( or xp), both installed natively.
I think you got of path here, at the moment I am looking for the lowest set of machinery that would run games and also boot in leopard with few or no kernal panics.

[Mohummad.ali]

This what really typed :

Hello people,
the Mac Pro is on hold right now (i have driving test on 29 of November and as soon as i pass (!!) the test i am going to get myself a car, and i am not sure how much it is going to cost, so Mac Pro has taken a back seat for the moment! ), but i have another question! i have a 11 year old, and i wanted to give her a Computer as Christmas present. Obviously she doesn't need a high end computer, she just needs a simple computer that can play games like: Kung Fu Panda, and stuff like that.
My budget is 400 euros!!!!
This desktop computer is supposed to be for this 11 year old, but if i could execute my evil mad scientist experiments on it, it would be a plus! :D

i was wondering if there was a particular set of machinery that would also let me install some hacked version (for example iAtkos!) of Mac OS 10, beside windows xp (or perhaps even vista), without eating into my car?
i mean i just want to spend 400euros, i already have the monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers!

Is it possible to get a pc, that play some modern games (doesn't need to be breath taking, the pc should only be able to run modern games, in budget!!!)
thanks in advance for great help you guys put up!

[sneezymarble]

firstly, i agree that buying third party upgrades is a cheaper option. but theres quite a few things wrong with your Newegg order.

1. The Mac Pro has a 1000W PSU and i wouldnt really trust that Coolermax one. Corsair make some of the best and quietest in the industry.
2. doesnt have dual heatsinks for dual CPUs
3. doesnt have Firewire 400 & 800 or Bluetooth
4. doesnt have iLife '08 which is included with all Macs
5. total doesnt include tax and shipping

then theres the OEM warranty from Apple which covers all the parts which would appeal to consumer customers and professionals looking to get the work done. also these users would probably not want to even go near the process of overclocking and just want a fast, stable machine that doesnt overheat and make a lot of noise.

http://picimg.com/uploads/1f662c42fbb31e9ed5306579afc4ede7.png

the grand total comes to $3510 (iLife '08 retail was not available)

heres the Mac Pro with the 8800GT and shipping for the same zip code.

143651

the Homebuilt Mac Pro ends up being about $318 more expensive so i think the Mac Pro is a very good price. also an even better bargain when considering the design, OEM warranty, runs OS X and Windows stable, no hacking and of course… the startup chime!

The e5410s overclock to 2.8GHz with the stock cooling included in the standard CPU box. You don't need to add extra cooling. And, certainly, if you're not going to overclock, which is the case you're making, it would be really silly to buy 2 extra heatsinks. They come in those e5440 boxes too. I already stated that if you're not willing to tinker (i.e. overclock and such) you should just buy a Mac. I also have made it pretty clear that using the same CPUs will cost you as much or more than a Mac Pro. This is the whole reason behind buying cheaper CPUs and overclocking. So, it's no surprise to me and should be no surprise to anyone else that using 2 E5440s will increase the cost of a home built machine.

But this is missing the entire point of building your own Hack. The idea is to get identical or better performance at significantly less cost. And this can easily be done. I'll say it again, if you want Apple's warrenty and service then this is not for you. I've been building my own systems for over 10 years now. I've never needed anything more than the standard warranties that come with the individual parts and, while I'm no genius, I've been perfectly capable of servicing my own systems.

However, since I would be willing to tinker, my Hack Pro would perform the same and be significantly cheaper just as I outlined even if I included the shipping cost and iLife. The power supply would have been fine and the Skulltrail motherboard has a built in firewire port.

But now look what you've done. You've added better cooling and you're still using the Skulltrail board and you're using higher clocked CPUs. With that combination you would be able to get those CPUs well over 3.2GHz very easily with no fear of overheating. In fact, the Hack would likely still be cooler than a Mac Pro, which in my experience run very hot. And thus your $3510 investment would perform as good as and likely better than a $4399 investment in a Mac Pro.

Finally, I've already addressed the warranty and service issues several time. I maintain that building a Hack Pro is not for everyone. But, in my case, I know that I could build a machine that would perform better than a similarly configured Mac Pro for significantly less.

my point is the Mac Pro is a great buy for a user that takes advantage of all the power whether they be professional or not.

And my point is that a Mac Pro is not a great buy for a user that takes advantage of all the power whether they be professional or not if they have the necessary know how and are willing to spend the time (which isn't very much) to do it. That's all.

[sash]

hello peopple i think you are missing the point here. I think i mentioned an 11 year old, A car and it's back seat, 400€, Kung fu panda. And a home built computer with leopard (iAtkos) and vista ( or xp), both installed natively.

Than you probably need something like this: http://www.osx86project.org/ .

Yet another link: http://lifehacker.com/348653/install-os-x-on-your-hackintosh-pc-no-hacking-required

[richard.mac]

@ sneezymarble fair enough… but i would probably just buy the Mac Pro instead of tinkering around with a homebuilt one with similar specs.

but mid ranged and gaming desktops are a completely different story. im thinking of building a Hackintosh with a Core 2 Quad, 8800GT and a Raptor.