Real Voter Fraud

[rdowns]

Hmmm, try as I might, I can't see a connection here. :rolleyes:

Link (http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/phony-flier-says-virginians-vote-different-days)
A phony State Board of Elections flier advising Republicans to vote on Nov. 4 and Democrats on Nov. 5 is being circulated in several Hampton Roads localities, according to state elections officials.

Link (http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/30082104.html)
An anonymous flier circulating in African-American neighborhoods in North and West Philadelphia states that voters who are facing outstanding arrest warrants or who have unpaid traffic tickets may be arrested at the polls on Election Day.

[abijnk]

These stories are just going to get worse over this next week, I am sorry to say.

[squeeks]

but with all of the victory parties the Obamians are planing it seems he's already won no need for you to go out and vote:p

[Thomas Veil]

Same thing that happened in the 2004 election. Nothing new under the sun.

Unfortunately. :(

[jplan2008]

The usual voter suppression. But, we have good, unusual news here in Florida. We still have a Republican governor, but not, this year, the brother of the presidential candidate. The Republican legislature had reduced early voting hours, which hurts lower-income voters, who have a harder time taking time off. The lines have been huge in the highly Democrat counties in south Florida.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/745088.html

Gov. Charlie Crist on Tuesday extended early voting hours across Florida to 12 hours a day. The executive order comes after record early voting turnout has contributed to long lines at polling sites.

Current Florida law allows for early voting to be conducted eight hours a day each weekday and for a total of eight hours during the weekends. With Crist's order, early voting sites will be open the rest of this week from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. They will be open a total of 12 hours on Saturday and Sunday, the last day of early voting.

''It's not a political decision,'' Crist said moments after signing the order, which declares a state of emergency in Florida. "It's a people decision.''

[rdowns]

^^

A Republican strategist in the state told Politico that, "He just blew Florida for John McCain."

[Sky Blue]

How bout some good ol' Vote flipping...

WVA Vote Flipping Caught on Tape
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q9NSVUu8nk&feature=related



WVA Vote Flipping Testimonial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5F-sXW6tCM&feature=related

[mactastic]

Standard GOP voter suppression tactics. Happens every election cycle.

[ucfgrad93]

The usual voter suppression. But, we have good, unusual news here in Florida. We still have a Republican governor, but not, this year, the brother of the presidential candidate. The Republican legislature had reduced early voting hours, which hurts lower-income voters, who have a harder time taking time off. The lines have been huge in the highly Democrat counties in south Florida.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/745088.html

So, 8 hours per day for almost 2 weeks before the election plus 12 hours on election day plus the ability to get a mail in ballot isn't enough?:rolleyes:

What would satisfy you? 24/7 for an entire month, or would that still be disenfranchising voters?:rolleyes:

[skunk]

Standard GOP voter suppression tactics. Happens every election cycle.This is what I simply do not understand, which I have alluded to in my "Will Your Votes Be Counted?" thread: how can you allow this to happen? Any other democratic country which was so cavalier about its voting procedures would be turned upside down by angry voters of all persuasions. Yet in the States vote-rigging, miscounting, gerrymandering, and flagrant abuse of the political process seems to be routine, election after election, met with a big yawn and a rolling of the eyes. I just don't get it.

[3rdpath]

So, 8 hours per day for almost 2 weeks before the election plus 12 hours on election day plus the ability to get a mail in ballot isn't enough?:rolleyes:

What would satisfy you? 24/7 for an entire month, or would that still be disenfranchising voters?:rolleyes:

after you're done with the sarcasm and eye-rolling...

could you please explain the downside for having extended voting hours?

[ucfgrad93]

after you're done with the sarcasm and eye-rolling...

could you please explain the downside for having extended voting hours?

I don't find any problem with early voting. I think its a good thing.

My post was in response to jplan2008 suggesting that since the Florida Republican legislature cut the number of hours in early voting from 12 per day to 8 per day, that it is somehow just an evil plot to disenfranchise voters. I think that 8 hours per day for almost 2 weeks, plus the 12 hours on election day, plus the ability to get a mail-in ballot is more than reasonable. I mean, if they cut the hours back to only a couple per day, then he'd have something to complain about.

At some point, individual voters have to take responsibility to vote. And with as many options that are available, there really is no excuse for not voting.

[mactastic]

This is what I simply do not understand, which I have alluded to in my "Will Your Votes Be Counted?" thread: how can you allow this to happen? Any other democratic country which was so cavalier about its voting procedures would be turned upside down by angry voters of all persuasions. Yet in the States vote-rigging, miscounting, gerrymandering, and flagrant abuse of the political process seems to be routine, election after election, met with a big yawn and a rolling of the eyes. I just don't get it.
Well, I suppose I could get out my guns and make a stand, demanding access to the Diebold source code OR ELSE!

It's not that I don't care, far from it. It's just that with TPTB entrenched as they are, it's going to take either a catastrophic event -- such as a demonstrably stolen election -- or the election of more open government types to allow us to break through the walls erected by these companies who have cozied up to the political elite in this country.

Also, you have to realize that since these vote inaccuracies seem to always favor one particular party, there isn't a lot of incentive for that side to get engaged in taking this on. It's to their benefit to see the status quo remain. And by the same token, it allows those very same folks to decry and attempt to challenge the results of suspect elections as "partisan".

Until this becomes a bi-partisan issue, I'm afraid we're not going to see much progress made.

[3rdpath]

I think that 8 hours per day for almost 2 weeks, plus the 12 hours on election day, plus the ability to get a mail-in ballot is more than reasonable.

i'll rephrase the question...

why is 12 hours a day unreasonable?

[skunk]

Until this becomes a bi-partisan issue, I'm afraid we're not going to see much progress made.Hundreds of thousands have died, two countries have been destroyed (not including Somalia), the world economy is down the crapper, and all this quite possibly because two US elections have been stolen. How bad does it have to get before both parties say "ENOUGH!"? Your forbears fought for their independence for this?

[ucfgrad93]

i'll rephrase the question...

why is 12 hours a day unreasonable?

Why is 8 hours a day so unreasonable?

Neither one of us knows why the legislature reduced the hours. Maybe they had a hard time getting workers, who knows. To me, it is not such a big deal and certainly not a Republican conspiracy to disenfranchise voters by cutting back the hours. There are still plenty of opportunities for people to vote early in Florida if they choose to do so.

[it5five]

Why is 8 hours a day so unreasonable?


Because there were still a large amount of people wanting to vote early, and the 8 hours wouldn't accommodate everyone.

I don't know why you are showing such hostility for an increased 4 hours of voting time so people can actually cast a vote. Why are you so opposed to people exercising their right to vote?

[skunk]

I don't know why you are showing such hostility for an increased 4 hours of voting time so people can actually cast a vote.I think you do...

[it5five]

I think you do...

Oh of course I do. But wouldn't you like to see what excuses he comes up with to avoid giving the real answer?

EDIT:

Here's some videos of NC Republicans heckling early voters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te5LBn0ofN0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R75OMc2SkvA

How democratic.

[3rdpath]

Why is 8 hours a day so unreasonable?

Neither one of us knows why the legislature reduced the hours. Maybe they had a hard time getting workers, who knows. To me, it is not such a big deal and certainly not a Republican conspiracy to disenfranchise voters by cutting back the hours. There are still plenty of opportunities for people to vote early in Florida if they choose to do so.


all conspiracy theories aside, the republican gov. of florida extends early voting from 8 hours a day to 12 hours a day. you state that 8 hours a day is reasonable. i'd just like to know what criteria you based your opinion on.

if you're not prepared to explain your position-you really should just refrain from posting.

[ucfgrad93]

No where have I said that it would be a bad thing to have people vote early. I just don't think that cutting the hours to a still reasonable 8 hours per day is a conspiracy to disenfranchise voters.

But feel free to continue to interpret my words however you like.

[it5five]

No where have I said that it would be a bad thing to have people vote early. I just don't think that cutting the hours to a still reasonable 8 hours per day is a conspiracy to disenfranchise voters.

But feel free to continue to interpret my words however you like.

And what is wrong with 12 hours, if 8 hours is okay? The Republican governor has no problem with it, and clearly they have the staff available for 12 hours if he extended the hours.

I'd still really like to know why you find this so objectionable. So far your whole argument is "well, 8 hours is good enough". But again: clearly it isn't, as the hours were extended to accommodate those who couldn't vote in that 8 hour period.

[Macaddicttt]

No where have I said that it would be a bad thing to have people vote early. I just don't think that cutting the hours to a still reasonable 8 hours per day is a conspiracy to disenfranchise voters.

But feel free to continue to interpret my words however you like.

If you're in a lower-income job in which you have to work eight hours straight, during normal business hours, i.e. the hours that the early polls are open, you won't be able to make the early voting hours. You'll be working while they're open. Lower-income people tend to vote Democrat, so limiting the hours to only eight hurts the Democrat vote. Whether or not it was a conspiracy or not, it does hurt the Democrats. That's just a fact.

What makes it suspicious is that the hours were lowered to eight by Republicans. What rationale did they give? Why is lowering the available hours in anyway a good thing? It's not like the hours were originally established at eight. They were lowered to eight. Why?

[ucfgrad93]

The usual voter suppression. The Republican legislature had reduced early voting hours, which hurts lower-income voters, who have a harder time taking time off. The lines have been huge in the highly Democrat counties in south Florida.

all conspiracy theories aside, the republican gov. of florida extends early voting from 8 hours a day to 12 hours a day. you state that 8 hours a day is reasonable. i'd just like to know what criteria you based your opinion on.

if you're not prepared to explain your position-you really should just refrain from posting.

I have explained my position quite well. The governor of Florida is within his rights to increase the hours of early voting. I have absolutely no problem with that. I have no problem with early voting either. I think it is great. Much better than having just election day.

My problem was in jplan2008's original statement that reducing the hours of early voting constituted an attempt to disenfranchise voters. It's not.

[Blue Velvet]

I just don't think that cutting the hours to a still reasonable 8 hours per day is a conspiracy to disenfranchise voters.

Except when people are queuing for up to eight hours to vote?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081028/ap_on_el_pr/early_voting

Which is something I also find remarkable. Voting in the UK usually takes about 10-15 minutes, sometimes quicker. Polling stations everywhere.

[ucfgrad93]

What makes it suspicious is that the hours were lowered to eight by Republicans. What rationale did they give? Why is lowering the available hours in anyway a good thing? It's not like the hours were originally established at eight. They were lowered to eight. Why?

I don't know why they were reduced. There may have been valid reasons for it, or it could all be a load of crap. jplan2008 didn't provide any reasoning for it or a link to a news story of why and just threw out an accusation, which most have decided to buy into hook, line, and sinker.

[ucfgrad93]

Except when people are queuing for up to eight hours to vote?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081028/ap_on_el_pr/early_voting

Which is something I also find remarkable. Voting in the UK usually takes about 10-15 minutes, sometimes quicker. Polling stations everywhere.

Your link is about voting in Georgia not Florida.;)

Question about UK voting. What are the operating hours of the polling places? Is there early voting? What is the turn out in percentages?

[xUKHCx]

Your link is about voting in Georgia not Florida.;)

Question about UK voting. What are the operating hours of the polling places? Is there early voting? What is the turn out in percentages?

I believe the hours are 7am - 10pm however local polling stations may open later. I know I have voted at 10.30pm before.

There is postal voting which you send in and that is done before the elction day. The polling booths themselves are only open on the day.The turn out was 61.4% (in 2005) according to this website (http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm).

As BV said there are polling booths literally everywhere, on election day on a normal journey you can pass 3 or 4 easily.

[ucfgrad93]

I believe the hours are 7am - 10pm however local polling stations may open later. I know I have voted at 10.30pm before.

There is postal voting which you send in and that is done before the elction day. The polling booths themselves are only open on the day.The turn out was 61.4% (in 2005) according to this website (http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm).

As BV said there are polling booths literally everywhere, on election day on a normal journey you can pass 3 or 4 easily.

Thanks for the info. One other question: Do you have to vote a specific place?

[Blue Velvet]

Your link is about voting in Georgia not Florida.;)

Yeah, I know. But this is something I think they want to avoid in Florida if at all possible.

[xUKHCx]

Thanks for the info. One other question: Do you have to vote a specific place?

I believe so. Polling stations are practically everywhere so it is never that far away.

You can even get someone else to vote for you by proxy (http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/how_do_i_vote/voting_by_proxy.aspx)

If you want to know more about the UK voting system then there is this handy website

http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/

As BV said voting is a very swift and if you go outside of peak times you can be the only one in there.

[ucfgrad93]

Yeah, I know. But this is something I think they want to avoid in Florida if at all possible.

Absolutely. I think it is great to have so many opportunities to vote. I remember voting when it was only the 12 hours on election day. Having early voting helps eliminate the chance of problems on election day. There is going to be a record turn out this year I think.

So far in Colorado, almost 37% of registered active voters have already cast their ballots. www.govotecolorado.com


*According to the county early voting reports, 1,404,897 Floridians have voted early in Florida as of 5:00 a.m. Wednesday, October 29, 2008.

Not sure what the percentage is, but it seems quite high.

https://doe.dos.state.fl.us/fvrscountyballotreports/fvrsefilings.aspx

If you want to know more about the UK voting system then there is this handy website

http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/

Thanks.:)

[skunk]

Do you have to vote a specific place?No, you can vote anywhere you like.

[rdowns]

I don't know why they were reduced. There may have been valid reasons for it, or it could all be a load of crap. jplan2008 didn't provide any reasoning for it or a link to a news story of why and just threw out an accusation, which most have decided to buy into hook, line, and sinker.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/florida/story/745715.html

Hoping to relieve overburdened early polling sites -- while trying to entice even more voters to cast ballots before Election Day -- Gov. Charlie Crist on Tuesday ordered the state's 67 supervisors of elections to extend hours at the polls.

Voting sites from Key West to the Panhandle's western reaches will now be open from 7 a.m. until 7 p.m. weekdays through Friday, and a total of 12 hours this weekend.

Polls had been open eight hours a day, and eight combined hours on the weekend -- the result of a 2005 Republican-backed state law that curtailed early voting hours.

With more than one million people lining up at the polls in just one week, and waits stretching for hours, several political leaders -- many of them Democrats, whose party had turned out in large numbers for early voting -- had urged an extension to 12-hour days.

''It's not a political decision,'' the Republican governor said moments after signing an emergency order that did just that. ``It's a people decision.''

You'll recall that Jeb Bush was the governor of FLorida in 2005.

[takao]

here voting is always done on a sunday
opening hours vary from 7-12 in the smaller villages and in the towns more like 8 to 17
no machines doing the counting

postal voting can be done until 17.00 that sunday but also weeks in advance (this year it was about weeks)
you can also throw in the postal voting card into the normal booths if you not in your hometown

on the location it's mostly in schools and other public buildings .. when you go in you go the the corresponding room for your street (which you know in advance) give the guys your postal voting card or identify yourself (which is not needed in my hometown since it's my neighbours sitting there) and they hand you the ballot
unless you have bad luck there is no waiting involved since there are simply an awful lot of rooms in which there are always multiple booths.. i waited 5 seconds before getting my ballot

i could have put a frozen pizza into the oven and would have been back before it was ready

turnout was 78,8 this year .. which is a hair more than last time with 78,5 .. a few years ago it still was over 85% etc put some states had still mandatory voting back then ...( which means you would get get fined if you don't vote or at least a visit from the police)

[ucfgrad93]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/florida/story/745715.html



You'll recall that Jeb Bush was the governor of FLorida in 2005.

Yes, I lived in Florida until June of 2005. However, this is not a recent change it is? It is not some sudden vast right wing conspiracy to suppress the vote like jplan2008 suggests. What I wanted to know is why it was reduced in the first place. Since the lines were that long for early voting, Gov. Crist did the right thing by increasing the time.

[rdowns]

here voting is always done on a sunday


The religious right would never let that happen here. They spend Sunday either in church or in secret trysts with their homosexual lovers.

Yes, I lived in Florida until June of 2005. However, this is not a recent change it is? It is not some sudden vast right wing conspiracy to suppress the vote like jplan2008 suggests. What I wanted to know is why it was reduced in the first place. Since the lines were that long for early voting, Gov. Crist did the right thing by increasing the time.

Surely Jeb Bush did this to suppress voter turnout.

[skunk]

It is not some sudden vast right wing conspiracy to suppress the vote like jplan2008 suggests. Who said it was sudden?

[mactastic]

Hundreds of thousands have died, two countries have been destroyed (not including Somalia), the world economy is down the crapper, and all this quite possibly because two US elections have been stolen. How bad does it have to get before both parties say "ENOUGH!"? Your forbears fought for their independence for this?
Both parties? Quite a bit worse, I'm sorry to say.

[Counterfit]

on the location it's mostly in schools and other public buildings .. when you go in you go the the corresponding room for your street (which you know in advance) give the guys your postal voting card or identify yourself (which is not needed in my hometown since it's my neighbours sitting there) and they hand you the ballot
unless you have bad luck there is no waiting involved since there are simply an awful lot of rooms in which there are always multiple booths.. i waited 5 seconds before getting my ballot

i could have put a frozen pizza into the oven and would have been back before it was ready

I voted in the presidential primary this year, and it sucked! My line (A-M) was by far the longest, while the other two lines only managed to get 4-5 people deep. Plus, it was raining, and I completely ****ed up my first ballot. Hint: when it says vote for no more than 6 delegates, COUNT!