Apple Recruits IBM Chip Designer, IBM Files Lawsuit

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/30/apple-recruits-ibm-chip-designer-ibm-files-lawsuit/)

CNet reports (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10079494-37.html) that IBM has filed a lawsuit against former employee Mark Papermaster for accepting a job at Apple. Papermaster was IBM's vice president of microprocessor technology development but recently accepted a position at Apple to begin in November.

IBM claims that Papermaster is violating his prior employment agreement by accepting a position at a competitor and may divulge IBM's trade secrets to Apple. Papermaster reportedly has authored several papers on PowerPC chip development and is considered a "top expert in Power architecture and technology."

CNet speculates that Apple could be interested in Papermaster because of his experience in both chip and system designs. Papermaster's expertise in system design--putting together the entire package of processor, chipset, and the rest of the guts that form a computer--could serve him well at a company that prides itself on soup-to-nuts design.Of course, Apple could also be interested in having Papermaster help with their recent P.A. Semi acquisition. Apple has been said to be working on their own ARM processors (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/15/apple-developing-arm-processors-for-iphone/) for use in the iPhone and iPod Touch. If Apple wants to continue its strategy of designing and building complete systems, hardware, software, and now chips for iPhone and iPod Touch, it's going to need someone who can predict the future of chip design and advise Jobs and Apple's executive team on how Apple can best take advantage of those trends. Papermaster, with a unique set of skills in the tech industry, might be just that guy.



Article Link: Apple Recruits IBM Chip Designer, IBM Files Lawsuit (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/30/apple-recruits-ibm-chip-designer-ibm-files-lawsuit/)

[TwinCities Dan]

Meh, who cares, they'll settle out of court for an "undisclosed amount". ;)

[mathcolo]

Seems pretty stupid for IBM to file a lawsuit just because someone accepted a job...:rolleyes:

[jessica.]

That's what you get when you sign and violate a non-compete.
****wads.

[TwinCities Dan]

That's what you get when you sign and violate a non-compete.
****wads.

jessica. feeling extra sassy tonight? :p ;) :)

[dvince2]

What's with all the PPC and Apple recently?
If this was like...3-4 years ago, good for them. But they made the switch to intel. As far as we know, 10.6 isn't going to be PPC, and we for sure know that 10.7 won't be.
Wouldn't it be better to get insiders from Intel or something?

[Fukui]

PPC is dead. THis is to make apple's next gen iphone's arm chip an atom killer.

[stephengiem]

pretty awesome. i bet he found that job post online somewhere. apple designing and manufacturing chips will save a lot of money.

[alphaod]

I guess this would be in line with severance agreements.

[skyline1999]

Please fix the grammatical errors!

[Rivix]

Hey, if the guy signed a contract with IBM thats how business works.

[Srai-W]

Should be interesting to watch. But yeah, PPC? I think it must be more for the iPhone. Maybe for a tablet mac in the future too??? :rolleyes:

[mdntcallr]

Super Cool, sounds like just the right person to lead Apple with right chip technology.

Sad IBM won't let this person work without a rumble. you can't stop people from earning a living!

[OriginalMacRat]

What's with all the PPC and Apple recently?
If this was like...3-4 years ago, good for them. But they made the switch to intel. As far as we know, 10.6 isn't going to be PPC, and we for sure know that 10.7 won't be.

And you probably thought the same when Mac OS X was thought to be PPC only. :p

While Apple won't support 10.6 on an old PPC Mac, that doesn't mean future PPC systems aren't supported in the labs today.

With the quantities that Apple is shipping today, they can't get locked into a single vendor.

[theBB]

That's what you get when you sign and violate a non-compete.
****wads.
AFAIK, non-compete agreements are not legal in California, although they are in NY state. As the violation will take place in CA, I am not sure how a NY court judgement might apply. Besides, if IBM is not working on an ARM product, but if he will be working on such products at Apple, he could argue Apple is not a competitor.

[brad.c]

Wow, that'd be a dream job if I knew anything about chip architecture.
But if they ever switch to cheesies, I'm ready for the call.

[Gymnut]

Papermaster? That name sounds too good to be a real name. Sounds phony, like Art Vandelay.:p

[Apple Ink]

Wow, that'd be a dream job if I knew anything about chip architecture.
But if they ever switch to cheesies, I'm ready for the call.

I'm not sure about the dream job part (ignore if it was sarcasm)

For the cheesies... I'll give you a tough competition on that!

[twoodcc]

now this seems interesting to me. i wonder how apple will respond? or what can they even do?

[im-a-ppc]

Papermaster? That name sounds too good to be a real name. Sounds phony, like Art Vandelay.:p

I assure you that Mark Papermaster is a real person, having worked for him for over 10 years. I guess it could all turn out to have been a dream...

[Maxington]

Going to prove, besides you would hate to see Apple defect to AMD in the future.

[dissdnt]

Judge will throw it out, Non-Competes are total bs. You can't prevent someone from pursuing their livelihood.

[SydneyDev]

Is the iPhone going PowerPC? Back when it was used in the Mac, one of the issues was performance per Watt.

[sebastianlewis]

What's with all the PPC and Apple recently?
If this was like...3-4 years ago, good for them. But they made the switch to intel. As far as we know, 10.6 isn't going to be PPC, and we for sure know that 10.7 won't be.
Wouldn't it be better to get insiders from Intel or something?

Talent is talent. It doesn't matter if they're from IBM, Intel, or working at some other company, their skills are still valuable to Apple for whatever reason Apple ends up hiring them.

Sebastian

[gifford]

Is the iPhone going PowerPC? Back when it was used in the Mac, one of the issues was performance per Watt.

and the performance was good until apple were let down by their partners

[nknight]

AFAIK, non-compete agreements are not legal in California, although they are in NY state. As the violation will take place in CA, I am not sure how a NY court judgement might apply.

(Note I have no formal legal training.) As the "violation" does not occur in New York, but in California, the case would almost certainly be heard in California, where the courts would decline to enforce the non-compete as against public policy. (And before anyone asks, no, it's not as simple as waiting for him to leave California; jurisdiction over the case resides in California, and is thus where the case must be heard.)

There are some exceptions to the prohibition against non-compete agreements having to do with ownership interests, but I don't think they'd apply in this case (see http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/bpc/16600-16607.html for the exact statute).

[jbgh]

Judge will throw it out, Non-Competes are total bs. You can't prevent someone from pursuing their livelihood.

that's not what IBM are doing.

when he started working at IBM, he obviously agreed not to work for a competitor for a certain number of years. he's free to have any other job in the world without violating that contract.

[irmongoose]

With an awesome name like that, no wonder everyone wants him to work for them.


irmongoose

[MrPlywood]

...and you want to be my latex salesman...

[steebu]

Hmm could Apple argue that IBM is not a direct competitor?

Since the IBM/Lenovo deal, doesn't that mean the two companies no longer have products that directly compete against each other?

Since Papermaster is a chip designer and Apple isn't in the chip business, how could Apple and IBM be competitors?

[Mac Maven]

The PowerPC shall rise from the ashes!

[plumbingandtech]

Seems pretty stupid for IBM to file a lawsuit just because someone accepted a job...:rolleyes:

Oh goodness.

You _were_ snarking there right?

I mean you actually don't believe this to be that simple...
:rolleyes:

[Trip.Tucker]

That's what you get when you sign and violate a non-compete.
****wads.

Exactly. This applies to any company.

[Trip.Tucker]

Judge will throw it out, Non-Competes are total bs. You can't prevent someone from pursuing their livelihood.

Wrong. Legally binding agreements are exactly that, and you're a fool if you think otherwise.

[lightning finge]

what a complete load of cobblers!

if its "trade secrets" then surely they're covered by a patent..........?
and obviously copy-righted code is protected.

you can't stop somebody from "learning on the job" then taking a position else where.....

If i learn verilog or java in job a, then leave and go to job b, surely I`ve a right to use those skills acquired....... doesn't the same apply to processor architecture?

[Marx55]

Apple does not lean from history and previous errors! Remember the PowerPC vs Intel fiasco! A new fiasco is in the horizon for Apple. Apple cannot compete with chip makers like Intel, AMD or Via amongst others. Simply cannot compete. All this is a waste of time and resources. Thus, the Macs are not updated properly and the dream Apple tablet takes for ever to develop. A shame, Apple. Do not take me wrong, I just want the best for Apple and Apple customers like myself!

[matticus008]

Wrong. Legally binding agreements are exactly that, and you're a fool if you think otherwise.
Problem being that noncompete clauses are quite frequently not legally binding. In fact, in California, they are presumptively invalid.

Exceptions exist, though, as always.
The PowerPC shall rise from the ashes!
Not really. Technology and expertise from PowerPC is useful, but there is nothing to suggest a return of PPC. This is just rehashing of the PA Semi rumors. They weren't purchased for their PPC designs.
As the "violation" does not occur in New York, but in California, the case would almost certainly be heard in California, where the courts would decline to enforce the non-compete as against public policy.
It's actually a good deal more complex than that. It matters where the employment agreement was signed, and whether it contains a choice of law clause. The location of the breach is less important, unless it comes down to the application of California law, in which case the clause will come under scrutiny.

It very may well be upheld, however, particularly when it involves a person with substantial technical expertise in a highly technical field, and the noncompete clause is narrowly tailored to protect the original employer's trade secrets.
(And before anyone asks, no, it's not as simple as waiting for him to leave California; jurisdiction over the case resides in California, and is thus where the case must be heard.)
California is the forum state. That does not mean that California law is the controlling law, nor does it mean that California is the only place jurisdiction exists.

There are some exceptions to the prohibition against non-compete agreements having to do with ownership interests, but I don't think they'd apply in this case (see http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/bpc/16600-16607.html for the exact statute).
Those are not the relevant exceptions. Exceptions based on trade secrets and unfair competition law are where IBM would go. IBM has a great deal of experience, both winning and losing, with these cases.
Judge will throw it out, Non-Competes are total bs. You can't prevent someone from pursuing their livelihood.
NCAs are frequently important where proprietary technology is involved and a person wants to accept a position with a close competitor. To allow the one-way sharing of that technology would be patently unfair, so as long as the clause is limited in time and scope to protect the company's proprietary interests, they absolutely can be valid. It does not prevent a person from pursuing his livelihood.
AFAIK, non-compete agreements are not legal in California, although they are in NY state. As the violation will take place in CA, I am not sure how a NY court judgement might apply. Besides, if IBM is not working on an ARM product, but if he will be working on such products at Apple, he could argue Apple is not a competitor.
They are not generall legal. The existence or absence of ARM products at IBM does not affect whether Apple is considered a close competitor. All that matters is whether the proprietary information at IBM could be applied to Apple's direct benefit, and that is a very difficult and fact-dependent question.
if its "trade secrets" then surely they're covered by a patent..........?
No. Trade secrets and patents are mutually exclusive. One requires disclosure, and the other is invalidated by disclosure.
If i learn verilog or java in job a, then leave and go to job b, surely I`ve a right to use those skills acquired....... doesn't the same apply to processor architecture?
Not necessarily. If you learn Java and develop code at job A, taking that same code to job B can be illegal. Developing or learning proprietary and confidential information in platform integration might very well be the same. There's an important difference between "skills" and "proprietary knowledge".

[lightning finge]

Not necessarily. If you learn Java and develop code at job A, taking that same code to job B can be illegal. Developing or learning proprietary and confidential information in platform integration might very well be the same. There's an important difference between "skills" and "proprietary knowledge".

can you elaborate on this, not arguing the point just curious.
seems a very grey area to me, however I can see the basis of your point.

obviously if I write code in job A its copyrighted to my employer A, and effectively owned by them (on their media, their time, paying my wage).
So if I leave job A i can't take that exact code to job B..... given.
But surely if the IP in the code is not patented, the ideas can be used in job B?
Say I code a brilliant new search algorithm, its not patented. Surely I can leave job A and use the algorithm (in some form) in another job/code ?

[nanofrog]

matticus008

Do you think part of the exceptions would arise from the ARM licensing both IBM and Apple possesses?

[cal6n]

This is great news.

If nothing else, it's a reminder that Apple aren't married to chipzilla.

Add this chap to the talent-pool at PA Semi and I see a bright future glimmering on a distant horizon.

[Masquerade]

well Arm evolved as a risc processor. maybe the PB G5 is coming!

[skunk]

"Soup-to-Nuts"??? What the hell is that?

[elppa]

that's not what IBM are doing.

when he started working at IBM, he obviously agreed not to work for a competitor for a certain number of years. he's free to have any other job in the world without violating that contract.

And being an expert in micro-processor chip design, which job do you suggest he applies for?

Since Papermaster is a chip designer and Apple isn't in the chip business, how could Apple and IBM be competitors?

PA Semi and IBM were rivals. Apple has purchased PA Semi and this point is made by IBM.

So yes, they are rivals.

[Pressure]

It should be quite apparent what direction Apple is going with this.

Since they (Apple) are a licensee of ARM microprocessor architectures they can effectively integrate every component into a single chip (System-on-a-Chip), meaning the future iPods and iPhones only need a single chip on the Print Circuit Board along with storage. This will enable Apple to have more control over various things like power consumption and what their products are capable of.

[matticus008]

well Arm evolved as a risc processor. maybe the PB G5 is coming!
No, but the fact that ARM originated as a RISC architecture is significant, and why people with PPC experience (also RISC) are good acquisitions for future ARM products (like PA Semi and the hiring of Papermaster).

Do you think part of the exceptions would arise from the ARM licensing both IBM and Apple posses?
Not likely. The issue is whether Papermaster, while at IBM, was deeply involved with IBM trade secrets, proprietary technology, and particularized expertise--all of which IBM owns and continues to own and control--and would, either intentionally or unintentionally, divulge those secrets or provide Apple with the direct benefit of that technology and information.

This is the essence of unfair competition. Apple would unjustly benefit from research financed by IBM. This is the kind of case where NCAs are sometimes upheld as exceptions to the statute. Without knowing what he did specifically at IBM and what he does at Apple, there's no telling how things would turn out.
can you elaborate on this, not arguing the point just curious.
It's actually a very fascinating area, albeit a bit dry.
seems a very grey area to me,
Quite grey. But there's no other way for it to be. Any black and white standard would create unfairness in implementation on both sides. It's fuzzy because it really must be done on a case-by-case basis to make sure that the original employer can protect its investments and competitive arsenal, but also that the employee isn't unfairly prevented from having the career he wants and is skilled at. It's hard to quantify, because oftentimes a person is hired because of their former position--and that's valid, unless the hiring was a poaching for corporate espionage. But that person has to respect professional boundaries.

One of the great problems plaguing software development, in my experience, is that unlike doctors, lawyers, financiers, and accountants, professional ethics is not a formal part of the enterprise. People honestly don't know what the limits are because they were never taught in a systematic, consistent manner--because there's no system in the profession. But there is a legal system, which presumes that people know the rules.
But surely if the IP in the code is not patented, the ideas can be used in job B?
You can bring your skills and publicly-available knowledge to a new project, but there's a sliding scale, and at some point, ideas stop being ideas and start being specific implementations, which you might not be able to disclose.

Even if there's no NCA involved, you don't want to put yourself and/or new employer in a position to be sued for copyright or patent infringement or for trade secret misappropriation. It is always a bad sign (for the defense) in IP litigation to have a former employee of the plaintiff working for the defendant, directly on the product at issue.

Avoid verbatim reproduction or very similar implementations unless you own the code or have a license. If you're not sure, always ask someone in your legal department. They'll be able to provide more specific help. If you're self-employed, you can avoid a lot of the mess by meeting with an attorney and making sure that your project contracts leave you with the level of ownership and control you want. After that, you only have to talk to a lawyer when a client wants you to sign their contract instead of yours.

Basically, if it belongs to your employer, in whole or in part, then you're not free to disclose those portions to a new employer. When your job and that information become so tangled in each other that knowing the boundaries becomes almost impossible, that's when you get NCAs. If it prevents you from working in the field at all, it's probably not valid. If it only prevents employment in direct competition with the proprietary information, for a reasonable time, it may be valid.

[Spanners]

They are probably designing their own iPhone chips..... Or perhaps not.

Perhaps they are going to build their own processors for the Mac. And before you all scoff, how about this,

1) They now own PA Semi Conductors (Low power chip fab experts)
2) They recruit a PowerPC Chip designer.
3) They have $25Billion in cash!

So here's my take. They are going to design and build a chip that is x86 compatible but has some sudo RISC instruction set thingy that allows for extremely fast speed but very low thermal envelope. That surely is the holy grail. A chip in the MB and MBP that doesn't drain the batter like a tap and gives huge amounts of speed. Steve did say they were going to do something that the market have to play catch up with.

[rychencop]

how in the hell are you going to sue someone for something they "might" discuss. get a clue ibm!

[RTee]

Talent is talent. It doesn't matter if they're from IBM, Intel, or working at some other company, their skills are still valuable to Apple for whatever reason Apple ends up hiring them.

Sebastian

Exactly!

Apple wants this guy regardless of what they have planned, the man knows his stuff, he wasn't some plonker cleaning the dunnies over at IBM and that's why they're taking action, bit silly IMO.

"If Apple wants to continue its strategy of designing and building complete systems, hardware, software, and now chips for iPhone and iPod Touch, it's going to need someone who can predict the future of chip design and advise Jobs and Apple's executive team on how Apple can best take advantage of those trends. Papermaster, with a unique set of skills in the tech industry, might be just that guy."

[lightning finge]

It's actually a very fascinating area, albeit a bit dry.

Quite grey. But there's no other way for it to be. Any black and white standard would create unfairness in implementation on both sides. It's fuzzy because it really must be done on a case-by-case basis to make sure that the original employer can protect its investments and competitive arsenal, but also that the employee isn't unfairly prevented from having the career he wants and is skilled at. It's hard to quantify, because oftentimes a person is hired because of their former position--and that's valid, unless the hiring was a poaching for corporate espionage. But that person has to respect professional boundaries.

One of the great problems plaguing software development, in my experience, is that unlike doctors, lawyers, financiers, and accountants, professional ethics is not a formal part of the enterprise. People honestly don't know what the limits are because they were never taught in a systematic, consistent manner--because there's no system in the profession. But there is a legal system, which presumes that people know the rules.

You can bring your skills and publicly-available knowledge to a new project, but there's a sliding scale, and at some point, ideas stop being ideas and start being specific implementations, which you might not be able to disclose.

Even if there's no NCA involved, you don't want to put yourself and/or new employer in a position to be sued for copyright or patent infringement or for trade secret misappropriation. It is always a bad sign (for the defense) in IP litigation to have a former employee of the plaintiff working for the defendant, directly on the product at issue.

Avoid verbatim reproduction or very similar implementations unless you own the code or have a license. If you're not sure, always ask someone in your legal department. They'll be able to provide more specific help. If you're self-employed, you can avoid a lot of the mess by meeting with an attorney and making sure that your project contracts leave you with the level of ownership and control you want. After that, you only have to talk to a lawyer when a client wants you to sign their contract instead of yours.

Basically, if it belongs to your employer, in whole or in part, then you're not free to disclose those portions to a new employer. When your job and that information become so tangled in each other that knowing the boundaries becomes almost impossible, that's when you get NCAs. If it prevents you from working in the field at all, it's probably not valid. If it only prevents employment in direct competition with the proprietary information, for a reasonable time, it may be valid.


many thanks, I understand and agree. most interesting.

[jbgh]

And being an expert in micro-processor chip design, which job do you suggest he applies for?

dissdnt said that IBM were stopping him from pursuing his livelihood, which they aren't. he had a contract with them, and he broke it when he accepted a position at apple, so they're suing.

as far a jobs go, do you want me to name every company in the industry that isn't an IBM competitor? if having a job was so important to him, then why did he leave IBM to work for a competing company knowing he wasn't legally allowed to?

[Kuska]

Papermaster? That name sounds too good to be a real name. Sounds phony, like Art Vandelay.:p

Should have changed it to 'Chipmeister' ;)

[MikeDTyke]

There are various rumours which i guess are accepted fact at this stage.


Apple bought PA Semi to get a boutique inhouse chip design outfit, to produce SoC for iphones/ipods.
Apple is likely the mystery ARM licensee that emerged in a statement from Arm earlier this year.
Apple is likely the mystery licensee of Imagination Technologies SGX embedded graphics platform.


This guy's experience appears to be in the field of process design at a managerial level. ie. he's experienced in getting from design to silicon and probably has a bunch of contacts within the industry not just at IBM. He'll be the one negotiating with TSMC, UMC, CSM or even perversely IBM semiconductors in order to get the best process for power/cost ratio.

I'm not surprised IBM are pissed, just they don't have a leg to stand on.

M.

[Roller]

Above a certain level, Apple's HR and legal departments would typically vet any prospective employee looking for potential problems like this. I suspect that they did so in this case and decided that he was worth the legal fight that would ensue.

[gnasher729]

if its "trade secrets" then surely they're covered by a patent..........?

Trade secrets are definitely _not_ covered by a patent. Anything you patent is published and known to the public and therefore not secret. Now IBM might be preparing to file for some patents; while they are preparing it is a trade secret. The day they file for patent protection, it stops being a secret and therefore stops being a trade secret.

I have heard of attempts to stop someone from joining another company because of trade secrets being thrown out. The person in question might know trade secrets of the old company, and it would be damaging if he told them to the new company, but that just means he has to keep his mouth shut. Or if this guy is going to develop ARM chips, he isn't allowed to use any knowledge that is an IBM trade secret.

An exception is when you are in a position where use of the trade secrets would be inevitable.

But surely if the IP in the code is not patented, the ideas can be used in job B?
Say I code a brilliant new search algorithm, its not patented. Surely I can leave job A and use the algorithm (in some form) in another job/code ?

If it is a trade secret, you can't. It would likely be a trade secret if no other company in the world knows about it, so you can't use it in another job.

But lets say a company hires you fresh from university to write iPhone applications. One year later you know everything that is to know about iPhone programming. This is very valuable knowledge, but obviously not that company's trade secret, because other people at other companies learnt exactly the same things.

[FF_productions]

They are probably designing their own iPhone chips..... Or perhaps not.

Perhaps they are going to build their own processors for the Mac. And before you all scoff, how about this,

1) They now own PA Semi Conductors (Low power chip fab experts)
2) They recruit a PowerPC Chip designer.
3) They have $25Billion in cash!


I have reason to believe, with all the cash reserved, they are gonna take a serious step forward in low-power processors. What's this mean for us? iPhones/iPods with much more power and potential and much better battery performance.

Will this carry to the Mac? Nah, unless these chips can smoke out Intel's offering and deliver good performance per watt, Intels not going anywhere.

Apple is really obsessed with iPhone and these small products one can carry in your pocket, they are striving to put more power in your pocket then ever before.

[Coolnat2004]

Does anyone else find this line exceptionally funny?
Papermaster reportedly has authored several papers ...

[137489]

Judge will throw it out, Non-Competes are total bs. You can't prevent someone from pursuing their livelihood.

umm, not actually. Here in North Carolina I knew someone who was forced to sign a non-compete to keep his job, after he had already been on the job one and 1/2 years. He was not given time to read it as his boss was standing over his desk saying sign now. 5 or so years later the company let him go in a downsizing. He was offered a good job buy another company that was going to hire him on as a VP with a very good salary, company car, etc. The company pulled the non-compete when the references were being checked. In the non-compete it said he could not work for any financial, insurance, investment, etc company in the entire state of North Carolina for 3 years after termination of employment, for whatever reason (and that included willful termination, firing, layoffs, etc). the owner told the new company, you hire him - your being sued and filed a sopeana that day.

The company offered him he same position, but in another state and they came back and said - nope, your main office is in North Carolina so he cannot go to your office in another state.

The poor guy now has been unemployed for a year, trying to sell his house to move outside of NC (where he really does not want to live - NC is home). No other company or position has come close to offering him a salary that would cover his mortgage, etc from the type of job he had and in his mid 40's he is having trouble trying to do a career change.

[tedhogan]

That's what I was thinking! WTF?! :eek:

"Soup-to-Nuts"??? What the hell is that?

[JNB]

This is done all too commonly, and generally with the same outcome.

The biggest flaw in the NCA is that it's a presumptive argument; the former employee might divulge something. Well, since they actually haven't as yet, most judges (at least ones that prefer not to be overturned on appeal) won't find for future possible contract violations or damages. No harm has occurred, hence it's not really actionable. As far as being legally binding in the first place, courts invalidate contracts regularly; try to enter a contract to take someone's soul. You both may agree to it, but I doubt it's enforceable.

The other side to this is the former employer is at immediate risk for a fairly compelling counterclaim, that being restraint of trade. The former employee can (and generally successfully does) argue that the NCA was unlawfully vague and could prevent them to perform any duty for any employer in their chosen field. Judges typically find merit in that, end up voiding the NCA, and everybody goes back to what they were doing in the first place.

Quite honestly, all a former employer can do is watch the new employer's product evolution, and if there are some trade secrets incorporated into new product design, then they may have a case, but still the NCA isn't worth the paper it's written on.

I remember signing mine, making the comment to Legal that this was worthless. They completely agreed, but it was more a matter to have anything that might stick than to just see me move elsewhere without even the (false) hope of action. In fact, of the half-dozen or so of these that I've followed or know the parties directly, not one was ever upheld in any court in the US. Lawyers are such funny people. :p

[pilotError]

umm, not actually. Here in North Carolina I knew someone who was forced to sign a non-compete to keep his job, after he had already been on the job one and 1/2 years.

Its really a matter of Will... and money.

If you have the cash to fight it, you can.

In his case, he actually would have had a good chance if what you describe truly did happen. I work in the financial sector and the only time I see those type of non-competes happen is if the guy owned the company.

I'm pretty sure the PA Semi deal is what has IBM up in ARMS (pun intended) about. Especially if IBM was experimenting with low power / low thermal design (which they most certainly are). Imagine what kind of research that guy had access to.

If anything, IBM might get lucky and force Apple to expose their direction and use of the guy.

Sometimes these things are about finding out what your competitors are doing.

[BigD58]

HAHAHA! IBM.......:rolleyes:

[dernhelm]

That's what you get when you sign and violate a non-compete.
****wads.

Non-competes are pretty fuzzy territory sometimes. They are often worded so vaguely that they amount to saying "you cannot work in an industry that uses computers for the period of 5 years" or something similarly idiotic - and they are simply non-enforceable. I know several people that violated their non-compete clause and had nothing happen at all. In those cases however the violation came after a severance agreement with the company, they were offered a job somewhere else after a period of several months, and they were up front about the agreement with both companies. Everyone has the right to earn a living - and everyone is employed "at will".

In this case, the violation is a little more egregious - since he simply quit IBM to join Apple - IBM had not laid him off or anything. Apple, however is not current engaged in chip manufacturing, so he may be ruled as not in violation.

It's quite likely that this will be settled out of court anyway. IBM likely filed just to send a message and discourage other people still in their organization from doing something similar.

[tgildred]

that's not what IBM are doing.

when he started working at IBM, he obviously agreed not to work for a competitor for a certain number of years. he's free to have any other job in the world without violating that contract.

Yeah, I hear Starbuck's is hiring.

[brad.c]

I think the enforcement, if not automatically pursued as a matter of policy, would usually be attempted in cases of immediate threat. And even then, it's usually in substantive situations (i.e. sales people moving across the street and bringing their accounts with them) that is the most actionable. Otherwise it's pretty much as JohnNotBeatle says.

The biggest flaw in the NCA is that it's a presumptive argument; the former employee might divulge something.

Curious: other than used to threaten job security or as leverage against an out-of-court settlement (which is likely the case with Papermaster), has ANYBODY been successfully sued for breach of an NCA?

[AnalyzeThis]

Apple has way better resources vs. this forum. If they accepted his employment they know how to defend it. IBM filed a suite as a warning to other employees, just to keep them on their toes. It is a defensive move by IBM. They are trying to stop a defection of more talents and this is the only action they could take. NCA is not constitutional. If they allow it to reach the supreme court ruling, it will take the last option off their table to persuade their employees to stay. IBM will settle quietly, under the radar later (loosing of course) to prevent the precedent.

[dohardthings]

i have a few comments first off all ibm has a legit reason to fight this case (don't worry i want apple to) apple and IBM are in a war and IBM may have something the consider 'an atomic bomb' and if apple gets it they will have lost that edge just like the USSR stole our nuclear technology and made a bomb through an employee IBM may feel a simaler way in fact they care more about the guy going to apple than they did (if they existed) about the Soviet spy.

And I am the first one that wants apple to make its chips but if it can't it will continue to use Intel and ARM don't squabble over it it is pointless.

sorry for the long post and the non-punctuating style:eek::apple:

[rolandf]

It would be in the interest of both companies to have a good and reliable working relation.

IBM is not very well using these days its know-how. Too many things never made it into the mainstream, i.e. capitalised, although their research has been ahead of others, several years. Let me just mention their LCD monitors with a resolution of above 200ppi.

Also, the Cell is used by Sony and Toshiba in a very unimaginative way, close to dilettantism, which ultimately will lead nowhere, and will not justify the money put into that project.

Having PASEMI as something like a "Formula 1" chip design team, leveraging the PowerPC know-how, would give both, IBM and Apple, a competitive edge over others, and hopefully Apple customers again notebooks and Workstations, that are setting the standard.

[overcast]

Seems pretty stupid for IBM to file a lawsuit just because someone accepted a job...:rolleyes:
Ever heard of a non compete agreement?

[jbgh]

NCA is not constitutional.

i bet the constitution doesn't mention NCAs

[dohardthings]

i bet the constitution doesn't mention NCAs

the constitution does not provide protection to civil cases only to federal and state ones in my best understanding (i need to study it)

[TheNorthWaves]

if IBM thought he was that important, maybe they should have paid him appropriately.

[FoxyKaye]

AFAIK, non-compete agreements are not legal in California, although they are in NY state. As the violation will take place in CA, I am not sure how a NY court judgement might apply. Besides, if IBM is not working on an ARM product, but if he will be working on such products at Apple, he could argue Apple is not a competitor.
That is my understanding as well, although my impression is that non-compete clauses are legally going the way of the dodo as they get challenged in the courts.

[dohardthings]

you will laugh and say why do we need that IBM guy?

http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisedesktop/archives/2008/06/desktop_windows.html

[Tosser]

"Soup-to-Nuts"??? What the hell is that?


That's what I was thinking! WTF?! :eek:

Haha, thanks you two. I'm not a native english speaker, and that was my thoughts as well. I was dumbfounded – it's not even a good "picture" where one can analyze what they mean.
But I'm glad I'm not alone in this :)

[JNB]

Operating under the assumption that the questions about this were serious…

"Soup to Nuts": Beginning to end, or the entirety of something. Comes from the first course of a meal (soup) to the last (nuts), implying the entire lifecycle of a product or service is provided from a single source. Another expression used is often "cradle-to-grave."

[Saladinos]

I have reason to believe, with all the cash reserved, they are gonna take a serious step forward in low-power processors. What's this mean for us? iPhones/iPods with much more power and potential and much better battery performance.

Will this carry to the Mac? Nah, unless these chips can smoke out Intel's offering and deliver good performance per watt, Intels not going anywhere.

Apple is really obsessed with iPhone and these small products one can carry in your pocket, they are striving to put more power in your pocket then ever before.

If technology stocks really will plummet as analysts have been warning about for years, Apple will be in a prime position to make some acquisitions. Yes, their price will go down as well, but that doesn't stop them spending cash.

NVidia (NVDA)'s market cap is $4.84Bn (according to Google Finance), and they have loads of experience in chipset design and mobile and desktop graphics. Silicon Image is only worth $342Mn. Broadcom has a market cap of about $9Bn. With $25Bn, Apple could buy all of those companies in a hostile takeover (assuming regulatory approval), and have $10.7Bn in cash still sitting around. It's more complicated than that, because they'd need to integrate teams with their own product teams, but that's more a time cost than monetary cost.

With those 3 and PA Semi, Apple would be able to completely change their product profile to allow slimmer, more powerful products that are harder to compete against. NVidia and SI can make fantastic mobile GPUs with chipsets on a chip, and have the Broadcom communications chip on the same package. With a chip like that, Apple could probably shrink the iPhone's PCB by between 1/4 and 1/3, and lower power consumption considerably. If PA Semi created the ARM processor, there's no reason Apple couldn't put the whole phone on one packaged IC.

Of course, I'm just making this all up (except the market cap figures, they're real). Just to show you how much $25Bn can buy.

[Tosser]

Operating under the assumption that the questions about this were serious…

"Soup to Nuts": Beginning to end, or the entirety of something. Comes from the first course of a meal (soup) to the last (nuts), implying the entire lifecycle of a product or service is provided from a single source. Another expression used is often "cradle-to-grave."

He he, thanks. :) Yup, I was serious.

[Virgil-TB2]

Judge will throw it out, Non-Competes are total bs. You can't prevent someone from pursuing their livelihood.For non-competes you are right, but there should be some NDAs involved also.

Not sure how they can really police that though without following the employee around at the new job and recording everything they say and do.

[RogueWarrior65]

IBM isn't in the consumer PC market anymore since they spun off their crap to Lenovo. And Apple was never in the chip-fab market.

[supmango]

Hmm could Apple argue that IBM is not a direct competitor?

Since the IBM/Lenovo deal, doesn't that mean the two companies no longer have products that directly compete against each other?

Since Papermaster is a chip designer and Apple isn't in the chip business, how could Apple and IBM be competitors?

I would argue that IBM is no one's competitor. My experience with their products (notebooks) is less than stellar and I am surprised they are still in existence.

[FF_productions]

Of course, I'm just making this all up (except the market cap figures, they're real). Just to show you how much $25Bn can buy.

It really makes me wonder what Apple will do with such a giant pile of money. Time will tell.

[theBB]

In his case, he actually would have had a good chance if what you describe truly did happen. I work in the financial sector and the only time I see those type of non-competes happen is if the guy owned the company.
I guess it depends on the state. I had a friend who got offered a job in Pennsylvania. He had to sign a non-compete agreement that would prohibit him from working in the financial industry or any company within fifty miles of the company offices for a number of years. They had an office in NYC as well, so if he took the job, the agreement says he cannot work in this field for a long time to come and he would have to move unless the company waives the agreement. Such agreements I've been told are not legal in CA, which makes a lot of sense. If times are tough and you have to take such a job, you get tied to that company for life unless you make a big career move, which is usually very difficult. Of course, that company can still fire you, so they do not have to be loyal to you, so it is an inherently "unfair" arrangement.

[Jaymes]

I want to see Mark Papermaster vs. Dwight K. Schrute vs. a computer in a 24 hour paper sale marathon. Then we'll see who the REAL papermaster is!

[SPUY767]

Apple, IBM and Motorola worked together on PPC development, so with the exception of the last several years, their probably wouldn't be all that many trade secrets to divluge.

[SPUY767]

Hmm could Apple argue that IBM is not a direct competitor?

Since the IBM/Lenovo deal, doesn't that mean the two companies no longer have products that directly compete against each other?

Since Papermaster is a chip designer and Apple isn't in the chip business, how could Apple and IBM be competitors?

IBM sold off its desktop and thinkpad business to Lenovo, but it still retains a server wing, which could arguably be in competition with the XServe.

[dejo]

I just wanted to thank matticus008 for providing balanced, unemotional, and intelligent information to this thread. Once again, your big (legal) brain shines!

[rjohnstone]

if IBM thought he was that important, maybe they should have paid him appropriately.
Having worked for IBM for more than 5 years, I can tell you that in most cases, money is not the deciding factor when people leave.
The money was great. I left because of their policies.
And yes, I signed both an NDA and an NCA and while the NCA is pretty flimsy, the NDA is rock solid.
There are things I cannot talk about for at least another year, and I left almost 3 years ago.

I highly suspect that IBM has some legs in this one or they wouldn't have bothered with the legal costs.

[sprice25]

this should not be a problem as this employee is not working at both places at the same time. you cant restrict a former employee. you have no say. sore luck for you IBM.

[kingtj]

As a general rule, the things have been largely un-enforceable, if the employee being charged with the violation really wants to press the issue.

An employer can ask you to sign almost anything, but that doesn't mean it's legally binding in a court of law.

As far as I'm concerned, if a company is THAT concerned about an employee going elsewhere with his/her knowledge of their products, then they need to make sure he/she is paid well enough and happy enough working for them so he/she doesn't leave in the first place!

Trying to prevent a FORMER employer from working elsewhere smacks of "restraint of trade" to me.


That's what you get when you sign and violate a non-compete.
****wads.

[AnalyzeThis]

the constitution does not provide protection to civil cases only to federal and state ones in my best understanding (i need to study it)

Constitution provided nothing on abortion, yet when SC ruled - it became an interpretation that is equivalent of a law. There is plenty freedoms granted to us, this is why IBM will never allow SC to rule on it and just settle out of court. Typical defensive move from IBM, but a dead-end. A harmless woo-doo stick - it only scares folks with no spare money to hire a lawyer initially.

At the end of the day, if the guy is employed by Apple we can just say "kiss good-buy NCA!". I can not wait to see the outcome...

[javierbds]

So IBM would not provide a PowerPC part good for laptops or mobile ...
They (IBM) have just to adjust to the new situation: from asking money from Apple to develop parts they thought had no market, to 'releasing' the people that can make those parts.

[Axemantitan]

Maybe Apple wants to make customized Intel chips with some PPC aspects to them. Then they could make the Mac OS run only on their custom chips and thereby prevent illegal cloning.

[pilotError]

There was a good article on Appleinsider that goes on to say that he was part of IBM's inner circle so to speak. It goes a long way to explaining why they are defending this so hard.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/30/apple_recruits_top_chip_designer_ibm_responds_with_suit.html

[AnalyzeThis]

There was a good article on Appleinsider that goes on to say that he was part of IBM's inner circle so to speak. It goes a long way to explaining why they are defending this so hard.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/30/apple_recruits_top_chip_designer_ibm_responds_with_suit.html

Folks, just think about for a second of a name: "Non-Compete Agreement". Do you really expecting any curt to even consider it. Just look what happend to Samsung and other RAM suppliers even without any formal non compete agreement among them. This is what happens to anyone who accept not to compete in order to keep their monopoly and control market. NCA is a direct offense on competition. All of them must compete by the law. Trade secrets is another story and is a criminal act if you caught, but they need to prove it first. Also, I think if he would elect or they would agree to continue paying salary for a non-compete period - it would make some sense and a fair contract, but this is not the case. No payroll, everything loose it power as you no longer an employee. He just have to be careful not to disclose trade secrets, forever, until they are not a secret anymore.

[lazyrighteye]

Apple does not lean from history and previous errors! Remember the PowerPC vs Intel fiasco! A new fiasco is in the horizon for Apple. Apple cannot compete with chip makers like Intel, AMD or Via amongst others. Simply cannot compete. All this is a waste of time and resources. Thus, the Macs are not updated properly and the dream Apple tablet takes for ever to develop. A shame, Apple. Do not take me wrong, I just want the best for Apple and Apple customers like myself!

Perhaps Apple has their sites set on something different. I can't see them wanting to develop chips they turn sell to other hardware manufacturers. But I can see them wanting to develop proprietary chips for their burgeoning handheld line - helping separate their offerings from their competitors. Hello advantage.

As far as non-compete contracts: totally legit & enforceable.
It sounds like when Papermaker accepted his IBM position, he (like myself) signed a contract stating he couldn't work for a competitor for a set amount of time after leaving IBM. In my case, I can't work for any of my current employer's competitors for 12 months.
Apple will "simply" settle out of court with IBM for a relatively small chunk of change (in the grand scheme of things). Funny what having billions in cash, affords. ;)

[fly75]

Snow Leopard technologies + Cell processors + PA Semi = ?

[Rocketman]

Super Cool, sounds like just the right person to lead Apple with right chip technology.

Sad IBM won't let this person work without a rumble. you can't stop people from earning a living!

Sounds like IBM agrees he is the right person. That's why he was an executive at the firm. There are typical 2 year delay terms on employment contracts and I do believe in CA in particular one year can be enforced.

I suspect there will be a gentleman's agreement between Apple and IBM not to do certain things for a year, after which anything goes.

The emphasis on consumer devices initially ought to allay any IBM fears. The loss of intellectual capital does have real value beyond merely the employee compensation. That's why some employees make bank. They make 8x bank for their employers.

Rocketman

[Rocketman]

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/10/31/ibm-offered-exec-a-years-salary-to-stay-away-from-apple

[Lershac]

Judge will throw it out, Non-Competes are total bs. You can't prevent someone from pursuing their livelihood.

Well he was compensated at termination for that clause. If he had not been greedy then and signed it......

[xbjllb]

:eek::apple:

[backdraft]

If technology stocks really will plummet as analysts have been warning about for years, Apple will be in a prime position to make some acquisitions. Yes, their price will go down as well, but that doesn't stop them spending cash.

NVidia (NVDA)'s market cap is $4.84Bn (according to Google Finance), and they have loads of experience in chipset design and mobile and desktop graphics. Silicon Image is only worth $342Mn. Broadcom has a market cap of about $9Bn. With $25Bn, Apple could buy all of those companies in a hostile takeover (assuming regulatory approval), and have $10.7Bn in cash still sitting around. It's more complicated than that, because they'd need to integrate teams with their own product teams, but that's more a time cost than monetary cost.

With those 3 and PA Semi, Apple would be able to completely change their product profile to allow slimmer, more powerful products that are harder to compete against. NVidia and SI can make fantastic mobile GPUs with chipsets on a chip, and have the Broadcom communications chip on the same package. With a chip like that, Apple could probably shrink the iPhone's PCB by between 1/4 and 1/3, and lower power consumption considerably. If PA Semi created the ARM processor, there's no reason Apple couldn't put the whole phone on one packaged IC.

Of course, I'm just making this all up (except the market cap figures, they're real). Just to show you how much $25Bn can buy.


With the left over 10.7 Billion they should buy Sun bring in Sparc talent as well (PPC, Sparc, ARM, Alpha, X86 mixed up hmmm...)along with major opensource projects. Or focus on the video/storage side and gobble up Telestream, Sedna Presenter, Active Storage Inc, and EditShare to name a few. Yahoo looks tempting as well to shore up talent for MobileMe and compete with M$ Exchange with Zimbra.

[mdriftmeyer]

With the left over 10.7 Billion they should buy Sun bring in Sparc talent as well (PPC, Sparc, ARM, Alpha, X86 mixed up hmmm...)along with major opensource projects. Or focus on the video/storage side and gobble up Telestream, Sedna Presenter, Active Storage Inc, and EditShare to name a few. Yahoo looks tempting as well to shore up talent for MobileMe and compete with M$ Exchange with Zimbra.

Yahoo! turned down a $42 Billion dollar merger. Sorry they are off the books.

[korgri]

Especially the ego of SJobs. I am sure it rankled him to move to Intel. The only reason for the move was because IBM stopped the development of the G5 in that form and turned to the form used by the gaming machines. How about: Apple begins producing just the Power Mac again, a pro level machine that uses PPC.. along with MacPros that use Intel. Doesn't anyone else realize how many MUG folks there are would buy both machines? Haven't any of you ever been to those Apple booths at the conventions in NY/SF and seen the nuts who sit there in that theater area and watch Apple's TV ads? I mean, they are ads, for chrissake...I mean for stevesake. You feel like you are in a chapel or something. And the way some of these people talk, my God. Or rather, my Jobs. It really is like this. If Jobs asked for donations, he would get them. Some of these folks aren't just aficionados, they are supplicants.
Anyway..I would probably buy a PPC machine over an Intel. But I gotta admit I would probably get a desktop PPC and laptop Intel. Probably the software engineers have been working on an operating system that will run on both. Or..OS11 debuts as the PPC OS..then thereafter it's odd numbers for PPC, even numbers for x86.
Would anyone doubt the will of Jobs?

[AuricBlue]

I am sure it rankled him to move to Intel. The only reason for the move was because IBM stopped the development of the G5 in that form and turned to the form used by the gaming machines.

I am not so sure that Steve was rankled, as you say, to go Intel. In fact, his previous company had gone Intel. Next ported NextStep to Intel many years before Steve came back to Apple. Even after Steve was back, the word was that he used an IBM ThinkPad as his computer at work. That may have had more to do with the debacle of the current MacOS at the time (7.5-6 or 8 IIRC).

When the 680X0 line of chips petered out Apple may well have considered Intel's offerings at the time, but that was before Intel started incorporating RISC design principles into it's x86 architecture to speed them up. Instead Apple choose to keep alliance with Motorola and get some help from IBM with their powerful POWER workstation/server architecture and formed the AIM alliance and make PPC chips. Then the PPC seemed to peter out and Apple reevaluated.

If I understand the stuff I've read on ArsTechnica then the x86 architecture has absorbed many of the benefits of RISC into it's architecture. Specifically, those x86 instructions are broken down into a simpler, faster, reduced set of instructions, and have all sorts of out-of-order, superscaler, branch-predictive, processor magic mojo applied in what can be oversimplified as a RISC chip with a CISC-to-RISC instruction converter bolted on.

So, is it likely that Apple wants to reintroduce PPC chips to Macs? Doubtful, as long as Intel continues to provide computing, power consumption, and heat generation advantages over the PPC chips. I seriously doubt that they would switch entirely back to PPC without some sort of Windows compatibility.

Now, if they made a low-power media processing chip, that would be cool. If they came out with a cell-like image and video processing, web accellerating, 3D game enhancing, homework doing add-on chip to speed up pro apps of theirs and others (especially video encoding) that would be awesome!

If you could get OS X to run on a PS3 or Xbox 360, then you might have an idea of what a current PPC mac is capable of. I suppose in the mean time, you could just compare Linux benchmarks.

I for one, hope this employee acquisition bodes great things for Apple. I miss the days when Apple announced super-cool game changing Macs. Don't get me wrong. I think highly of all their current products, but I remember how radically game-changing my first Mac was (MacPlus.) I was lucky enough to be able to use a Mac IIfx during a job I had in high school and agreeing with Steve when he said they were "wicked fast". The first Quadras we had were literally jaw dropping. Remember all the bondi blue accessories, alarm clocks, TVs and toasters, not to mention the explosion of USB devices after the original iMac came out? Remember Phil Schiller demoing AirPort by jumping into a trampoline with an iBook at MacWorld?

I guess I just want to be wowed again. Maybe the accuracy of recent rumors has something to do with it, but I want Apple to be an industry leader and changer. When they come out with a new Mac, I want the other PC makers scrambling to catchup and Windows users saying, "Why does this have to be so hard?" and "Why can't I do that on my computer?". How about a laptop that charges itself my capturing energy from keyboard presses, mouse-clicks, trackpad friction, and hard disk spin-down "regenerative breaking". ("Your battery is low. Press the spacebar 1000 times to accrue another 5 minutes of operating time." :D) Oooh, what if they put solar cells on the wrist rest, under the backlit keys and under the glass trackpad? It would work sorta like the solar-powered flashlight, but it would capture excess light from the LCD panel at night, and use the sunlight that glares off the glossy screen in the daytime to provide a brightness boost to actually see through the glare.

Well, I've digressed and ranted long enough! Time to try and sleep some more.

[AuricBlue]

Yahoo! turned down a $42 Billion dollar merger. Sorry they are off the books.

Yeah, but that was a $42B merger with Microsoft :p. Who knows, maybe they'd merge with Apple for $1! ;) Then Apple would have plenty left over for those other companies. If only we could somehow enlarge and strengthen the RDF to encompass the rest of Silicon Valley.

[rockosmodurnlif]

How long is this lawsuit going to take to resolve? That might just take care of the year of the NCA anyway.

[powers74]

now this seems interesting to me. i wonder how apple will respond? or what can they even do?

See comment 15

[Gasu E.]

IBM claims that Papermaster is violating his prior employment agreement by accepting a position at a competitor

I did not realize IBM and Apple were competitors. As far as I know, IBM makes neither personal computers, MP3 players or cell phones. It's possible they compete in some incidental product area, but if there were such an area it would probably represent a very small portion of at least one company's revenues. Is a non-compete enforceable if the areas of competition are trivial?

[mccldwll]

What a complete waste of bandwidth. Read matticus's post(s) and learn something. If you're not a lawyer (and law students below 3rd year don't really count because universally they know far less than they think they do), don't post. Please.

[Jon the Heretic]

Sounds like IBM agrees he is the right person. That's why he was an executive at the firm. There are typical 2 year delay terms on employment contracts and I do believe in CA in particular one year can be enforced.

I suspect there will be a gentleman's agreement between Apple and IBM not to do certain things for a year, after which anything goes.


I hope this guy is worth it. Most IBM executives are boneheaded morons totally lacking anything remotely resembling "vision" and anything that could remotely be called a "human soul". There are a few notable exceptions, but they tend not to go very far within IBM.

IBM is one of those companies with a mountain of talent in the ranks squashed by an enormous elite management class sitting on top of them trying to suppress anything innovative as they think real innovation smacks of being too "expensive" (even when the whole point of a particular innovation may be to save money). And then simultaneously talking up mediocrity as if that is what "innovation" is really about. Change is bad, except if is mandated from above; then it is blindly follow the leader so I get a bigger bonus.

The average IBM exec's bag of tricks could be automated by a simple Eliza program from the 1970s: Cut everyone you can with a higher salary, hire only new college graduates and people from low cost countries, shift costs to other departments and make your crap other people's problems, and introduce paralysis analysis by having your teams waste time trying to figure out what the rest of the industry is doing to achieve the same abysmal level of mediocrity, safety lies in the wisdom of the crowds (also called "Best Practices").

I hope this IBM exec is worth fighting for, not just overpaid blue shirt. But the fact he is leaving IBM speaks well of him.

[AtariKee]

Apple does not lean from history and previous errors! Remember the PowerPC vs Intel fiasco! A new fiasco is in the horizon for Apple. Apple cannot compete with chip makers like Intel, AMD or Via amongst others. Simply cannot compete. All this is a waste of time and resources. Thus, the Macs are not updated properly and the dream Apple tablet takes for ever to develop. A shame, Apple. Do not take me wrong, I just want the best for Apple and Apple customers like myself!

Apple isn't stupid. Enough said.

[aznkid25]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/04/wsj-apples-ipod-boss-stepping-down-replacement-stuck-legal-li/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122577427707796495.html?mod=googlenews_wsj