what is your definition of a cult?

[jefhatfield]

is mind control, an often noted factor, enough to make an organization a cult?

...or is an organization a cult if it has religious or psuedo religious beliefs put into a mind control system with the ultimate goal of making money for the organization or cult founder?

thoughts??

[Chip NoVaMac]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
is mind control, an often noted factor, enough to make an organization a cult?

...or is an organization a cult if it has religious or psuedo religious beliefs put into a mind control system with the ultimate goal of making money for the organization or cult founder?

thoughts??

I consider a cult to be something or someone that people will following blindly without thinking for ones self.

[Angelus]

Originally posted by Chip NoVaMac
I consider a cult to be something or someone that people will following blindly without thinking for ones self.

That definition could nearly include your everyday religion.

[edesignuk]

...religion...makes all kinds of people to all kinds of CrAzY stuff...


...:eek:...

[Chip NoVaMac]

Originally posted by Angelus
That definition could nearly include your everyday religion.

And it could be a political party.

[Krizoitz]

Originally posted by Angelus
That definition could nearly include your everyday religion.

That is a very over-generalized and bigoted view of religion. Simply because religion involves following a set of beliefs doesn't mean that people don't take the time to explore those beliefs. I can't name a single religious person I know, Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, Jewish, Mormon, Wiccan (I know alot) that hasn't at one time or another questioned their beliefs. Most people don't simply blindly follow the teachings of the churches/synagogues, etc. but do think about what they believe and why the believe it.

While it is true that SOME religious extremists follow things without questioning it, I have seen the same thing from children of atheist parents.

Ultimately ANY belief system has to involve some assumptions about what is and isn't true. Even science. Scientific laws are no more than theories that seem to work, based on certain assumptions. So far no one can prove that evolution actually happened, sure there is evidence to support it, but that doesn't mean you can prove it. (Not saying it didn't just trying to point out that in its own way science is as much based on assumptions and faith).

[Krizoitz]

Originally posted by edesignuk
...religion...makes all kinds of people to all kinds of CrAzY stuff...


...:eek:...

I think its more a matter of people, they use religion as an excuse to do all sorts of CRAZY stuff. I'd say environmentalism (which some have descrived as a religion of the left) is used by people do alot of the same crazy stuff as religious extremeists.

[mactastic]

Oh yeah, this thread is going to degenerate real fast.

[mactastic]

"<Bart Simpson> '...church, cult, cult, church, so we get bored somewhere else every Sunday' "

Somewhat ironic, since Nancy Cartright is apparently a member of the Scientologists.:p

And before anyone flames me, I'm just interjecting some lighthearted humor in here... not equating religions with cults.

[jefhatfield]

when i was checking up on a cult that i ran into at san jose state, i looked into the definition of cult vs. cult-like

many religions, certain military organizations, and some companies are cult like and require a certain pre determined set of beliefs and behavior and are into modifying people for a given set purposes which may or may not mean making money for the organization

when the main focus is for making money and it is done in a cult like way, then it truly crosses the line and becomes a cult

i looked into some cult survivors websites and they all basically had the same thing...giving extreme amounts of one's money to a person or organization in an unhealthy way, and many victims of cults were unaware of their actions

i won't name names but one organization goes door to door and is effective by playing a numbers game by never giving up and they have grown to be one of the largest protestant demoniations in the world...another one was started by a single man after the original spinoff of the church all died in guyana under jim jones...but this one which was headed there took a hit when its leader stepped down a couple of years ago so i hope it does ok

and then there is the cult that many stars belong to, and they have been effective in being a money machine, too and they don't bleed the stars of the same percentage of monies that they do to ordinary individuals

we live in a cult ridden society and it probably stems from the business like entrepreneurism that shaped our country's destiny in the first place, but money making, mind bending cults are the underbelly of a successful capitalistic society

the reason religion/pseudo religion works so well in a cult format is because of the tax benefits they receive by their religious status and it lays the feds off of them who would otherwise shut them down as a bad business...cults do give real religion a bad name and in america it's done often in the name of christ, but i am sure in other countries with wealth but another religion has its spinoffs, too

[Sayhey]

I think a "cult" is a pejorative used to describe a small group of people whose ideas aren't in the mainstream of society or disagree with your own. The early christians were a cult. The Mormons were a cult. The Puritans were a cult. You can go on and on. Sometimes these cults have important ideas that can transform the broader society and sometimes they are exploitative organizations that are lead by wackos.

[Desertrat]

"Sorta": A cult seems to me to be a pseudo-religion where those in power or control over the group behave as though their own aggrandizement is paramount to the overall good of the membership. I figure the behavior of the leadership is a clue. Seems to me, also, that there is a rigidity of thought built into these splinter "religions", far beyond that of such as Islam or fundamentalist Christian sects.

I don't claim to be in love with this effort at a definition...

'Rat

[mactastic]

Definfing a cult is like defining pornography. Hard to pin down, but you'll know it when you see it. No to mention a thoroughly grey area where it could be either depending on your POV.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by mactastic
Definfing a cult is like defining pornography. Hard to pin down, but you'll know it when you see it. No to mention a thoroughly grey area where it could be either depending on your POV.

The key difference is the quest to pin down the definition of pornography is a lot more fun. :p

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by mactastic
Definfing a cult is like defining pornography. Hard to pin down, but you'll know it when you see it. No to mention a thoroughly grey area where it could be either depending on your POV.

wanna pin down a cult? heck, do an audit ;)

leaders such as that "man in the night sky", that "guru" with a fleet of rolls, the ex sci fi "author" or that "spinoff dude" from the church of christ, are prime examples where they are rich and their followers are all major "donors"

there is a tangible paper trail to these types of organizations and i wish the irs would go after them since they are baby enrons but with the cloak of being into "self help" or "self improvement/enlightenment"...not only do cults leave a financial trail of disaster for people, they often break up families and damage a person's spirituality

[mactastic]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
wanna pin down a cult? heck, do an audit ;)

leaders such as that "man in the night sky", that "guru" with a fleet of rolls, the ex sci fi "author" or that "spinoff dude" from the church of christ, are prime examples where they are rich and their followers are all major "donors"


I dunno Jef, did you ever see the place Cardinal Bernard Law was living in? That might qualify the Catholics as a cult by your definition.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by mactastic
I dunno Jef, did you ever see the place Cardinal Bernard Law was living in? That might qualify the Catholics as a cult by your definition.

i heard the name in the news i think

who is he?

and is he rich, and if so, can he buy me a powerbook?;)

[Neserk]

I believe that technically a cult (in the United States) is a "religion" that isn't offically registered with whoever they are suppose to register with.

[Desertrat]

:) mac, I don't think the Catholic church requires that you put money in a collection plate in order to be a Catholic. What I consider cults, OTOH, seem to require strong controls over your billfold and mind.

'Rat

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Desertrat
:) mac, I don't think the Catholic church requires that you put money in a collection plate in order to be a Catholic. What I consider cults, OTOH, seem to require strong controls over your billfold and mind.

'Rat

while the cathothic church as a hot and cold history, they never made making money their sole existence as an organization...this does not absolve them of all the native americans they killed, for instance

all in all, it was human greed when catholic countries discovered the new world, but this still was not a cult in the traditional definition

cults are designed as money making entities from their inception and inventing a religious front to hide from taxes and to control people's wallets

[pseudobrit]

Almond flavoured Kool-Aid is an integral part of any serious cult. Either that or sleepytime tapioca pudding.

[mactastic]

Originally posted by Desertrat
:) mac, I don't think the Catholic church requires that you put money in a collection plate in order to be a Catholic. What I consider cults, OTOH, seem to require strong controls over your billfold and mind.

'Rat

Save your powder 'Rat, I didn't call the Catholics a cult. I was telling Jef that his definition of a cult being an organization with a rich top to their pyramid didn't work for that reason.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by mactastic
Save your powder 'Rat, I didn't call the Catholics a cult. I was telling Jef that his definition of a cult being an organization with a rich top to their pyramid didn't work for that reason.

i hear you

to me, the mind control is hard to pinpoint but when you see it, it's really obvious

i think the fbi should take a Look-See into some of these organization's bank accounts, assuming that they suspect criminal activity and have enough legitimate complaints

cults are nothing more than thieves in sheep's clothing

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
i hear you

to me, the mind control is hard to pinpoint but when you see it, it's really obvious

i think the fbi should take a Look-See into some of these organization's bank accounts, assuming that they suspect criminal activity and have enough legitimate complaints

cults are nothing more than thieves in sheep's clothing

To me the answer is not the FBI (that brings in a whole host of other dangers) but more exposure of the beliefs and practices of these groups. There are a lot of small religious groups that have nothing to do with the "cult" like activities you are talking about and I would hate to see them grouped with the Moonies and others of their ilk.