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blakespot
Jun 4, 2002, 04:18 PM
XLR8YourMac.com (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com) is running a story that reveals that the new iBooks, based on the PowerPC 750FX CPU (the IBM "Sahara"), can be overclocked in software. Whereas the bus speed/multiplier of previous G3's was set by resistors, this new G3 allows configuration via a CPU register. A user installed Apple's CHUD tools on his iBook 700 and was able to get it running at 800MHz. There seems a possibility, with more documentation, that even higher clockspeeds could be obtained. Great news for all daring owners of the new iBooks.

eyelikeart
Jun 4, 2002, 04:21 PM
now that's something new...overclocking without actually altering the hardware...

so does this mean that it can be reversed...thus preventing voided warranty?

blakespot
Jun 4, 2002, 04:21 PM
Did I pick the right time to get on the iBook bandwagon or _what_??


blakespot

blakespot
Jun 4, 2002, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by eyelikeart
now that's something new...overclocking without actually altering the hardware...

so does this mean that it can be reversed...thus preventing voided warranty?
It reverts back to the original clockspeed at reboot. A little app run at boottime could easily be written to upclock the system with each reboot. Though temperature is a concern in laptops, always. This new G3 takes less power and runs cooler that previous, similarly clocked units however.


blakespot

Backtothemac
Jun 4, 2002, 04:32 PM
Blakespot,
Have you done it on yours? How does it perform? Much faster? What about heat?

Thanks,

AlphaTech
Jun 4, 2002, 04:40 PM
Can something like this be done to the new TiBooks too??? Just wondering if it can, or if it can only be done to the iBookers... :D

I wouldn't mind trying it out on my TiBook, but would like to hear if anyone has done it before I do.

pimentoLoaf
Jun 4, 2002, 04:48 PM
This is certifiably :eek: weird. Does any other processor chip do this sort of thing?

Macmaniac
Jun 4, 2002, 05:12 PM
That sounds really wierd that you can change the clock speed with software. 100mhz is a big difference! Maybe blackspot should jump in now while there are cool things you can do!

Royal Pineapple
Jun 4, 2002, 05:16 PM
would this work on the 2001 i book model (500 mhz, firewire) as well or would it be limited to the higher end models
i bought my iBook as soon as they came out and i could only wish i had waited until i could get a faster one for less $ ( i paid 2000) and its only 500 mhz. if not oh well mine works nicely.
:confused:

also does anyone know the specs of the next AirPort relese?

Royal Pineapple
Jun 4, 2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by blakespot

It reverts back to the original clockspeed at reboot. A little app run at boottime could easily be written to upclock the system with each reboot. Though temperature is a concern in laptops, always. This new G3 takes less power and runs cooler that previous, similarly clocked units however.

if anyone can write this app. could they put it on their iDisk, im not much of a programer but i would love to take advantage of the speed boost
if so thanks
-royal

blakespot
Jun 4, 2002, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Royal Pineapple
would this work on the 2001 i book model (500 mhz, firewire) as well or would it be limited to the higher end models
As the article states, it works on iBook sporting the new PowerPC 750FX (G3 "Sahara"), which only the new 2002 iBook have (600 & 700MHz).

blakespot

blakespot
Jun 4, 2002, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
Can something like this be done to the new TiBooks too??? Just wondering if it can, or if it can only be done to the iBookers... :D

I wouldn't mind trying it out on my TiBook, but would like to hear if anyone has done it before I do.
Only the new G3 "Sahara" CPU has this functionality in the Apple line, at present. Perhaps another iteration of the G4 or the G5 would allow this as well.


blakespot

blakespot
Jun 4, 2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
This is certifiably :eek: weird. Does any other processor chip do this sort of thing?
There is an application for the Compaq iPAQ handheld, based on the StrongARM SA1100, basically the same chip that was used in the Newton MP2x00, that allows it to be over(or under)clocked to a range of clockspeeds. I am not sure it was a combination of the CPU and the manner in which it was tied to the unit in general that allowed this--all Windows CE PocketPC's have (wisely) moved to this CPU, but I am uncertain if they all can benefit from this manner of simple overclocking through software.

StrongARM -- that's quite a CPU.


blakespot

AlphaTech
Jun 4, 2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by blakespot

Only the new G3 "Sahara" CPU has this functionality in the Apple line, at present. Perhaps another iteration of the G4 or the G5 would allow this as well.

Figures... maybe someone will figure out a way to do that with a new TiBook as well. Stranger things have been known to happen... :D

Zaren
Jun 4, 2002, 05:28 PM
What is this Reggie? I installed the dev tools, but I have no such app on my machine.

-----
Apple hardware still too expensive for you? How about a raffle ticket? (http://www.macraffle.com/index.php?aff_id=144)

Sayer
Jun 4, 2002, 05:33 PM
The Dragonball (68k derivative) from Motorola can be changed in software as well. I had a lil app called AfterBurner that did this on my Palm V.

The speed change was definately noticeable in scrolling speed and more intensive games (Argon V for example).

Sayer
Jun 4, 2002, 05:40 PM
Dynamic performance tweaking for saving battery life. Encoding MP3 or exporting iMovies? Jack up the CPU. Working in a word processor and turn down the speed.

Lots of Apple portables have done this before, this seems to be a more accessable way to do it tho instead of the limited Energy Saver control panel.

Its also an easy way to alter hardware to be faster/slower models all by software config instead of physical changes.

Geeze is this ever gonna P.O. some of the "Apple is holding back performance to charge more" crowd.

mdntcallr
Jun 4, 2002, 05:47 PM
I don't have an ibook because i prefer the G4 Ti, but i love that Apple is finally getting more consumer friendly with its actions:

More frequent updates to models (they are faster to upgrade now)
Reactive to market interest (eMac)
Allowing people to change the clock speed on their Mac laptop (hope this leads to more)

All i want now is 64 mb graphics on the top of the line powerbook.
if it costs more, i want more in it other than ram, HD space and a chip mhz increase

blakespot
Jun 4, 2002, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Sayer
Geeze is this ever gonna P.O. some of the "Apple is holding back performance to charge more" crowd.
Some, but not the sharp ones.

The CPU in the iBook 600 is spec'ed at 600MHz by Motorola. The iBook 700 has a CPU spec'ed at 700MHz. Could they be overclocked a bit? Likely--but they were not tested for speeds greater than the stated speeds. So there's no guarantee. Apple is most definitely not purchasing, say, 800MHz G3's and downclocking them to 700MHz for some incomprehensible reason nor are they (or would they or any other respectable hardware manufacturer) going to take a chip and clock it over it's spec'ed rating and sell it as a standard machine running at the higher speed.


blakespot

Dunepilot
Jun 4, 2002, 06:03 PM
Is it really so amazing to overclock a computer via software in some way?

You could look at this as accessing the CPU at a low level in the same way that Windows users do via the BIOS. Virtually all of my PC-using friends have overclocked their celerons at one time or another.

Nice to see that people are squeezing more out of the Sahara though.

Someone mentioned last week that they had overclocked the bus speed of their 500MHz iBook to 100MHz. Anyone know how to do this...?

Rocketman
Jun 4, 2002, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by blakespot

It reverts back to the original clockspeed at reboot. A little app run at boottime could easily be written to upclock the system with each reboot. Though temperature is a concern in laptops, always. This new G3 takes less power and runs cooler that previous, similarly clocked units however.


blakespot

What's cool about this is if it generally works it could become a popular and reliable free download. Better than an easter egg. The overheating issue matters. Is changing chips trivial? :-)

I would investigate other hacks on other books. Is there a mac hack site for, say all mods available for a G4 ti? If so the webmaster or an agent could accept CPU's for upgrade and collect a fee for it.

Rocketman

http://v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

Rocketman
Jun 4, 2002, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Sayer
Dynamic performance tweaking for saving battery life. Encoding MP3 or exporting iMovies? Jack up the CPU. Working in a word processor and turn down the speed.


The TiG4 already supports this feature. It is in the sleep menu. The questiojn becomes higher and lower options or perhaps "smart CPU usage" software.

Rocketman

http://v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

Bradcoe
Jun 4, 2002, 06:24 PM
Royal Pineapple and Dune.

The iBook 500 IS overclockable. I've got one and...well i haven't done it YET. I'm waiting til schools out and I'm on summer break...oh wait thats tomorrow! So I'll let you know how it works when I do it this week or next...or next...or whenver I get to it around my lazy summer. Well if you want to do it yourself (soldering required) check out www.xlr8yourmac.com they've got a ton of stuff on it. A guy named Tycho did it and posted a step by step. Obviously voids ur warranty, but hey, 600Mhz and 100Mhz bus. Why not!

Royal Pineapple
Jun 4, 2002, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Bradcoe

The iBook 500 IS overclockable. I've got one and...well i haven't done it YET. I'm waiting til schools out and I'm on summer break...oh wait thats tomorrow! So I'll let you know how it works when I do it this week or next...or next...or whenver I get to it around my lazy summer. Well if you want to do it yourself (soldering required) check out www.xlr8yourmac.com they've got a ton of stuff on it. A guy named Tycho did it and posted a step by step. Obviously voids ur warranty, but hey, 600Mhz and 100Mhz bus. Why not!

i have read about this overclocking and i have decided that i dont have enough experteice to phisically change something in my laptop, plus i just purchased the APP (apple protection plan) for $300 and i wouldnt want to void the warrinty. if anyone figures out how to OC it w/ software i would be more than intrested
-royal

topicolo
Jun 4, 2002, 08:42 PM
Speaking of processors that can be overclocked without modifying hardware, the pc side has had one for a while, starting with the celeron (celery?) 300A (300Mhz) that was overclockable to 450Mhz by upping the bus speed of the processor from 66Mhz to 100Mhz from the BIOS (I actually got one of those and they worked great. Apparently, 85% of those chips were perfectly stable at that insane overclocked speed). Nowadays, you can still overclock the bus, but if you get an older Athlon Tbird, it's possible to modify it to accept changes to both its bus speed and its modifier through the BIOS. Oh, I also forgot graphics cards--there's a utility for the pc called powerstrip that can overclock practically any graphics card from the Nvidia TNT2 up inside of windoze. It was pretty cool--for a windoze program.
Just my 2cents.
-t

iSmell
Jun 4, 2002, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Rocketman

The overheating issue matters. Is changing chips trivial? :-)


I had one of the last revisions of the iBooks (back when 600 mhz was top of the line). I upgraded the hard drive and I can tell you, I don't think replacing anything other than the RAM or Airport card would be considered trivial by the average DIYer. It took me a few hours to get the thing apart and back together again and I almost gave up a few times because it was so frustrating. I did get an extra screw out of the deal, like a souvenier I guess.

Anyway, I wouldn't count on just popping in a new cpu if you overhear yours. It's probably not worth it for the average user. That said, I would probably do it if I had one of those thing :-)

Catfish
Jun 4, 2002, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by topicolo
Speaking of processors that can be overclocked without modifying hardware, the pc side has had one for a while, starting with the celeron (celery?) 300A (300Mhz) that was overclockable to 450Mhz by upping the bus speed of the processor from 66Mhz to 100Mhz from the BIOS

[snip]

-t

Yeah, I was gonna mention this. The first computer I built myself was a K6 233, and brand spanking new at the time was an Abit motherboard that let you change the bus speed and multiplier (hence CPU clock speed) from the bios. It was called...SoftMenu or some such thing. I was K-rad with my Pentium 90 smoking at 100MHz. It wasn't all that new, though even then, (~1997) because my first computer, a Tandy 1000 with a 286 processor at a smoking 8 MHz came with an program you could run from DOS like cpuspeed or something, and you could change the speed to 4 or 8 MHz on the fly.

But those days are behind me, I am a happy Mac owner now. I never thought I would see the day, and now I can't believe it took me so long!

Bradcoe
Jun 4, 2002, 09:19 PM
I have a 300A celeron. I overclocked it the day I got it to 464Mhz. A processor designed for a 66mhz bus running with a 100Mhz bus PLUS Turbo (a few extra MHz in there). Talk about fun! I hate windows but I love to tinker with PCs. Theyre so cheap and...well...tinkerable lol. It's not like I care if something goes wrong with it. But then again, I've had (now my mom has) the celeron for about 2 years so nothing really did/does.

Aciddan
Jun 4, 2002, 09:22 PM
I have a 2002 iBook 600 and after reading the article it said that the 2002 iBooks (600/700) were 750FXs...

I have the 14" model with the 100Mhz FSB... When did the 750FX get introduced??

-- Dan,

Bradcoe
Jun 4, 2002, 09:22 PM
Overclocking CPUs has been around froever. All you're doing it making it run at a higher speed than shipped from the factory (many ways to do this). Sometimes they go a lot higher, sometimes not at all. Depends on lots of things. But the 300A was certainly NOT the first to OC. Abit was the first with the SoftMenu which basically lets you OC stuff (change tons of settings) on the motherboard without having to physically move jumpers because you just change settings in the bios.

Baseline
Jun 4, 2002, 09:37 PM
Could anyone *confirm* the ability to overclock the NEW iBook 600 to something higher?

I'd love to have an iBook right now, but the 700 Mhz 12" iBook is $500 CDN more than the 600 (I don't need a CDRW in a part-time laptop, that's what my desktop machine is for). So if I could save that $500 and manually push the machine to 700, that'd be fantastic. The extra money could go to some more RAM :)

AlphaTech
Jun 4, 2002, 09:38 PM
The main drive behind overclocking peecee's has been chips that were too damned slow to begin with. They also performmed crappy compared to how Mac chips did (even if the numbers were not there).

One of the HUGE disadvantages to overclocking a system is the excess heat that gets generated. That will degrade system components, such as the processor and motherboard. Once that happens, it's only a matter of time before the entire system fratzes out. To get rid of all that heat, alternate cooling systems have been developed. Many use water, or liquids, and some even use gases (super-cold) just to keep the computer from overheating and having a 'melt-down'.

If you have a cheap system that you don't care about, go ahead and OC it, but if you actually want to keep it running, I'd advise against it.

ThinkpadsRule
Jun 4, 2002, 10:03 PM
Very true. I fried my very first system OCing it without proper ventilation.

Cappy
Jun 4, 2002, 10:24 PM
If only people could put a Mac together like a PC where you can buy the motherboard, cpu, and everything else you need. Granted it wouldn't be a given but it would be nice to see the Mac hardware gain more features in firmware/bios that allow for features like easy overclocking. I've overclocked all of my PC's at home. Celeron 300a to 450, Celeron 566 to 850, and P4 1.6a to 2.1. Lots of folks are getting their P4 1.6a up to 2.4 and even 2.6ghz.

Not Mac bashing since I like Macs but it's not that easy on the Mac and even get those increases. Doing it in software is cool and all but now what about security? A virus or trojan that burns up your cpu. Ouch!

blakespot
Jun 4, 2002, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by topicolo
Speaking of processors that can be overclocked without modifying hardware, the pc side has had one for a while, starting with the celeron (celery?) 300A (300Mhz) that was overclockable to 450Mhz by upping the bus speed of the processor from 66Mhz to 100Mhz from the BIOS (I actually got one of those and they worked great. Apparently, 85% of those chips were perfectly stable at that insane overclocked speed).
Basically any CPU can be overclocked. The Celeron 300A was particularly forgiving. It's the fact that this can be done in software, with no hardware modifications (not even simple jumper block manipulation), that makes this such a notable issue.


blakespot

blakespot
Jun 4, 2002, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
The main drive behind overclocking peecee's has been chips that were too damned slow to begin with. They also performmed crappy compared to how Mac chips did (even if the numbers were not there).
Not the most objective look at it, I'd say...

One of the HUGE disadvantages to overclocking a system is the excess heat that gets generated. That will degrade system components, such as the processor and motherboard. Once that happens, it's only a matter of time before the entire system fratzes out. To get rid of all that heat, alternate cooling systems have been developed. Many use water, or liquids, and some even use gases (super-cold) just to keep the computer from overheating and having a 'melt-down'.

If you have a cheap system that you don't care about, go ahead and OC it, but if you actually want to keep it running, I'd advise against it.
When overclocking within an acceptable thermal range, a force working against you is electromigration. Atoms of the metal that form the traces inside the CPU, especially at corners, get "carried off" with the current and the traces physically thin over time when running at excessive speed. The question here is, just how long will you be using a CPU (under remotely normal use patterns)? 3 years? Maybe. 5 years? Think reasonably and you see that a CPU need not last forever.


blakespot

AlphaTech
Jun 4, 2002, 10:49 PM
Actually, I was recently granted access to a resource that not many people do. I can purchase components that can be used to construct a Mac system. I could purchase a G4 QuickSilver motherboard (not the 2002 model, but still it's a QS mobo.). I will be keeping my eyes open for a processor that will work on it. I am thinking about making it into a project for next year. A home brew Mac system :D... I would use a case from another party, something that will support the motherboard. I will also check to see about getting a power supply that works with the Mac, but comes from another company, that way I can have as many drives as I see fit. I would like to put together a system with several hard drives (more then four) set on a RAID card so that I can get top end performance out of them. I can see the possibilities... now I need to decide if I will go that route, or just get a system from Apple next year... Decisions, decisions, decisions.. :D

blakespot
Jun 4, 2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Cappy
Not Mac bashing since I like Macs but it's not that easy on the Mac and even get those increases. Doing it in software is cool and all but now what about security? A virus or trojan that burns up your cpu. Ouch!
It is not an easy task to overclock a Sun or SGI either. Similarly, many mainstream PC motherboards (as in not a roll-your-own-PC ASUS, Abit, etc.) lack easy overclocking features. With reason. When you open the door to overclocking, you're opening the door to corrupted and/or unreliable data. I am not against overclocking, but Apple, Dell, Gateway don't need support calls from overclockers who are having hardware issues.


blakespot

LethalWolfe
Jun 5, 2002, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by blakespot

Some, but not the sharp ones.

The CPU in the iBook 600 is spec'ed at 600MHz by Motorola. The iBook 700 has a CPU spec'ed at 700MHz. Could they be overclocked a bit? Likely--but they were not tested for speeds greater than the stated speeds. So there's no guarantee. Apple is most definitely not purchasing, say, 800MHz G3's and downclocking them to 700MHz for some incomprehensible reason nor are they (or would they or any other respectable hardware manufacturer) going to take a chip and clock it over it's spec'ed rating and sell it as a standard machine running at the higher speed.


blakespot

Coming from the land of PCs I'm gonna disagree w/ya here. I don't think it would be cost effective for Moto (or any chip maker) not to scale their chips to various speeds and put them in different price brackets. For example, a 600mhz P3 w/a 100mhz FSB and a 800mhz P3 w/a 133mhz FSB run exactly the same chip. The only difference is the FSB (and I'm sure Dell, Gateway, Compaq, etc. also have software "governors" that keep the CPU at it's "correct" speed).

Do I think PC makers sell any O/Ced chips? No. Do I think they sell "underclocked" chips? Yes. If computer makers only sold hardware at "max speed" they'd leave a lot of consumers in the cold and screw themselves. Do you reinvent the wheel to make a "lesser" product? No, you dumb down the best you have an sell it at a lower cost. Look at the new iMacs. They're running G4's but w/a 100mhz FSB. Do you think those are different G4's than what's in my tower? Heck no. I just have a faster FSB that allows my CPU to run faster.

Car companies do it (an Acura is just a really pretty Honda). Other chip makers (Intel and AMD) do it. Granted I'm still new to the Apple scene, but I don't see why Moto wouldn't do it.


Lethal

AlphaTech
Jun 5, 2002, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Car companies do it (an Acura is just a really pretty Honda). Other chip makers (Intel and AMD) do it. Granted I'm still new to the Apple scene, but I don't see why Moto wouldn't do it.


Expain yourself there mister... in what way does AMD do it? They have two chip lines, the Duron and the XP. They are not the same chips, and the XP's are clocked quite a bit higher then the Duron is.

I wouldn't put anything past intel for scamming people out of money, but I don't get the same feel from AMD. Besides the price difference between a top pee4 and XP chips is huge.

beatle888
Jun 5, 2002, 01:04 AM
OK, so why doesnt some unix or mac freak . . . . .
...............write the CODE to do this ? .................

Come on, with all you programmers out there you think
wed already be enjoying this luxury the wonderful PC
users have.

Just write the damn CODE .....@;0)

I mean why not, WHY IS IT DIFFICULT!

Oh, waite. Im sure that was my ignorance talking
just then...sorry.

But Im sure theres someone out there with the
talent to do so, but I guess it comes down
to time and interest.

PC users are really pretty far ahead of us if you
dont mind me saying. ..........
.......................................Bastards !:eek:[B]

redAPPLE
Jun 5, 2002, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by Sayer
The Dragonball (68k derivative) from Motorola can be changed in software as well. I had a lil app called AfterBurner that did this on my Palm V.

The speed change was definately noticeable in scrolling speed and more intensive games (Argon V for example).

hi.

is that a fact? where could one get "afterburner"?

Beej
Jun 5, 2002, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
The main drive behind overclocking peecee's has been chips that were too damned slow to begin with. They also performmed crappy compared to how Mac chips did (even if the numbers were not there).That may have had something to do with it, but people will always want to overclock their system no matter how fast it is. People are just funny like that...

--

Anyone remember those AMD chips (Athlons and Durons) that could be overclocked with a pencil? Now that was funny! :)

--

And to whoever asked, changing a processor in a Mac is not a trivial task. I fried a G4 400 a couple of months back, and I couldn't even buy a processor to put in it...

Beej
Jun 5, 2002, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by beatle888
OK, so why doesnt some unix or mac freak . . . . .
...............write the CODE to do this ? .................

Come on, with all you programmers out there you think
wed already be enjoying this luxury the wonderful PC
users have.

Just write the damn CODE .....@;0)

I mean why not, WHY IS IT DIFFICULT!

Oh, waite. Im sure that was my ignorance talking
just then...sorry.

But Im sure theres someone out there with the
talent to do so, but I guess it comes down
to time and interest.

PC users are really pretty far ahead of us if you
dont mind me saying. ..........
.......................................Bastards !:eek:[B] OK, calm down :)

I'm sure if this 'Reggie' app is Apple Scriptable it would be very easy to write a makeshift script that took care of it until someone came out with a real app to do it...

blakespot
Jun 5, 2002, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe


Coming from the land of PCs I'm gonna disagree w/ya here. I don't think it would be cost effective for Moto (or any chip maker) not to scale their chips to various speeds and put them in different price brackets. For example, a 600mhz P3 w/a 100mhz FSB and a 800mhz P3 w/a 133mhz FSB run exactly the same chip. The only difference is the FSB (and I'm sure Dell, Gateway, Compaq, etc. also have software "governors" that keep the CPU at it's "correct" speed).

Do I think PC makers sell any O/Ced chips? No. Do I think they sell "underclocked" chips? Yes. If computer makers only sold hardware at "max speed" they'd leave a lot of consumers in the cold and screw themselves. Do you reinvent the wheel to make a "lesser" product? No, you dumb down the best you have an sell it at a lower cost. Look at the new iMacs. They're running G4's but w/a 100mhz FSB. Do you think those are different G4's than what's in my tower? Heck no. I just have a faster FSB that allows my CPU to run faster.

Car companies do it (an Acura is just a really pretty Honda). Other chip makers (Intel and AMD) do it. Granted I'm still new to the Apple scene, but I don't see why Moto wouldn't do it.
I've spent more time in the PC world than the Mac world, and most of that time was spent behind overclocked machines. And having followed the scene for such a period, I'm aware that chip manufacturers run several scenarios in fabricating and testing CPU's.

Say Intel is producing a P3. Say P3's range from 733MHz - 1GHz. Intel may be looking to make a batch of 733 MHz P3's, so they take a wafer and test it to 733 and if it passes, then it becomes a P3 733. In another scenario they test a P3 out to 1GHz. It fails. They try it at 900MHz. Fails. They try it at 733MHz--it passes. This chip becomes a 733MHz P3 even though they were targetting 1GHz. The interplay of these scenarios would logically be based on the yields the company is getting. Both are valid scenarios.

Only if there is a high demand for 733's, much moreso than for 1GHz units, would a CPU company ever be inclined to take a CPU that passed at a certain clockspeed and sell it as rated for a lower clock.


blakespot

blakespot
Jun 5, 2002, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by beatle888
OK, so why doesnt some unix or mac freak . . . . .
...............write the CODE to do this ? .................

Come on, with all you programmers out there you think
wed already be enjoying this luxury the wonderful PC
users have.

Just write the damn CODE .....@;0)

I mean why not, WHY IS IT DIFFICULT!
I believe this news was made common knowledge...yesterday.

Clearly an app will be written. I imagine one will appear within a couple of weeks.


blakespot

topicolo
Jun 5, 2002, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by redAPPLE


hi.

is that a fact? where could one get "afterburner"?

afterburner is a hack that you can get from www.palmgear.com, but I suggest fastcpu, which lets you do a lot more and it's an app, which tends to leave a palm more stable than a hack and it supports increasing the display refresh rates.
-t

Catfish
Jun 5, 2002, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by blakespot

I am not against overclocking, but Apple, Dell, Gateway don't need support calls from overclockers who are having hardware issues.


blakespot

Very true, it should be noted that you are voiding your warranty and taking your hardware into your own hands if you forge down this path. If you have the knowledge, or the willingness to learn and don't mind frying your hardware, it can be fun to goof around with. Just don't call tech support when you start having problems. They won't be very sympathetic.

blakespot
Jun 5, 2002, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Catfish


Very true, it should be noted that you are voiding your warranty and taking your hardware into your own hands if you forge down this path. If you have the knowledge, or the willingness to learn and don't mind frying your hardware, it can be fun to goof around with. Just don't call tech support when you start having problems. They won't be very sympathetic.
And it's one thing to overclock a system where the CPU can be easily replaced, but another where it's soldered to the board (as in the iBook, I believe)...



blakespot

Yewie
Jun 5, 2002, 11:54 AM
Does anyone face this problem after upgrading??

Chaning my desktop background doesn't work on System Preferences. I can pick the picture. Everything seems okay on the system pref app.. but my desktop doesn't change!

Know how I can solve this??

no other problems yet.. but there is a better performance with the graphics in general.. not dramatic.. but definitely better than before.

ryan
Jun 5, 2002, 12:03 PM
A ~14% increase in processor speed (700MHz -> 800MHz) is nice, but without a corresponding bus speed increse, say from 100MHz -> 133Mhz, the speed difference isn't going to be all that noticable.

Hemingray
Jun 5, 2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by blakespot

There is an application for the Compaq iPAQ handheld, based on the StrongARM SA1100, basically the same chip that was used in the Newton MP2x00, that allows it to be over(or under)clocked to a range of clockspeeds. I am not sure it was a combination of the CPU and the manner in which it was tied to the unit in general that allowed this--all Windows CE PocketPC's have (wisely) moved to this CPU, but I am uncertain if they all can benefit from this manner of simple overclocking through software.

StrongARM -- that's quite a CPU.


blakespot

If I recall, didn't overclocking the MP2x00's cause the sounds to go faster at a higher pitch? I'm assuming this isn't the same.

rubikcube
Jun 5, 2002, 12:54 PM
But it'll take a couple of days. Tell me what you guys want in it as far as features go. And I need some people with the new iBooks to test this on. Oh yeah, there is no way I will put it on my iDisk. I don't want everyone and their brother e-mailing me about how to fix their brand new 1700 dollar computer that they just fried using my application. I don't think I will even give it out, until the liability concerns are taken care of. Until then, send me your suggestions.

Brad Nelson
rubikcube@mac.com

A@ron
Jun 5, 2002, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by rubikcube
Tell me what you guys want in it as far as features go....Until then, send me your suggestions.


A few nice features would be
1) activate on startup (of course)
2) A deactivate if running on battery check box. This way you don't wind up killing the batt in <1.5 hour lol.
3) maybe make it a dock or menu icon so that speed can be set on the fly almost like volume.

just my $.02 since I have an Indigo iBook and not a new 700 MHz.

A@ron

iwantanewmac
Jun 5, 2002, 02:49 PM
I have a G4 400 PCI model. When I found out it was possible to overclock it i tried it immediately.
Just out of curiosity.
at 500MHZ it dropped into open firmware, but 450 work fine. (at least I havent noticed anything strange. The temp. (according to GAUGE PRO) increased by 1 degree celsius. I cant get it to run hotter that 34 celsius.:)
It runs fine for 7 months now.
Does any1 have problems with PCI models overclocking? any failures after a while???

wsteineker
Jun 5, 2002, 07:31 PM
How did you overclock your Yikes! board? Was it a hardware or software overclock? If it was software, do you know if it works on the Sawtooth G4s? Thanks!

britboy
Jun 5, 2002, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by wsteineker
How did you overclock your Yikes! board? Was it a hardware or software overclock? If it was software, do you know if it works on the Sawtooth G4s? Thanks!

xlr8yourmac is a good place to check for OC news. They have an article regarding the sawtooth mobos here (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G4ZONE/sawtooth/SawtoothCPUdesign.html).

topicolo
Jun 5, 2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by iwantanewmac
I have a G4 400 PCI model. When I found out it was possible to overclock it i tried it immediately.
Just out of curiosity.
at 500MHZ it dropped into open firmware, but 450 work fine. (at least I havent noticed anything strange. The temp. (according to GAUGE PRO) increased by 1 degree celsius. I cant get it to run hotter that 34 celsius.:)
It runs fine for 7 months now.
Does any1 have problems with PCI models overclocking? any failures after a while???

You should try adding one of those cpu fans that are sold for pcs. That should probably reduce your chip down to 30 C or lower. If you're really crazy, go search for tutorials on how to build a water cooler--you'll probably be able to overclock your computer to like 600Mhz or something :-) :D

AlphaTech
Jun 5, 2002, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by wsteineker
How did you overclock your Yikes! board? Was it a hardware or software overclock? If it was software, do you know if it works on the Sawtooth G4s? Thanks!

The Yikes board had jumpers that set the speed, just as the G3 Blue motherboards did. From the Sawtooth forward they eliminated the jumper blocks, which means you have to do some soldering.

As for topicolo's suggestion of 'water cooling' your Mac :rolleyes: Have you looked at what is involved in one of those rigs??? You would HAVE to create and adapter to make contact with the processor, which could prove more difficult then you think. Add to that the fact that quality WC rigs are NOT cheap (at least a couple of hundred dollars), it gets to the point of dimminishing returns.

The idea of putting a fan on the chip is better, IF you can get it to stay on it. The heat sinks that Apple uses don't have spots for fans to go onto them (as the peecee world's heat sinks do). You would have to either make it stay on the heat sink, or put some holes in it to make it stay put. Another case of diminishing returns, and probably more trouble then it's worth.

Since the speed is only increased by 50MHz and the temp only went up a few degrees it's not worth all the trouble to try and get it a little cooler.

One easy, and cheap, option would be to replace the system fan with one that has a higher flow rate. Cooler Master (http://www.coolermaster.com/) makes excellent fans that are quiet and push a lot of air.

topicolo
Jun 5, 2002, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech



As for topicolo's suggestion of 'water cooling' your Mac :rolleyes: Have you looked at what is involved in one of those rigs??? You would HAVE to create and adapter to make contact with the processor, which could prove more difficult then you think. Add to that the fact that quality WC rigs are NOT cheap (at least a couple of hundred dollars), it gets to the point of dimminishing returns.

The idea of putting a fan on the chip is better, IF you can get it to stay on it. The heat sinks that Apple uses don't have spots for fans to go onto them (as the peecee world's heat sinks do). You would have to either make it stay on the heat sink, or put some holes in it to make it stay put. Another case of diminishing returns, and probably more trouble then it's worth.


Well, you can get ready-made water cooler setups from pc enthusiast shops on the internet, and all you would have to do is to lap the cooling block and attach it using thermal epoxy or maybe create a copper shim to fit it better.

As for the fan, I think a tube of superglue should do the trick ;)

AlphaTech
Jun 5, 2002, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by topicolo
Well, you can get ready-made water cooler setups from pc enthusiast shops on the internet, and all you would have to do is to lap the cooling block and attach it using thermal epoxy or maybe create a copper shim to fit it better.

As for the fan, I think a tube of superglue should do the trick ;)

Here (http://www.hardcorecooling.com/index.htm?catalog.htm&1) is just one example of a water cooling system... as I mentioned, a couple of hundred dollars to get the system. You still would have to connect it to your processor, which may not be as easy as you think. You also need to run the lines to outside of the case (via holes you will need to drill into the case) to allow for the heat exchange.

I wouldn't trust superglue to hold a piece of plastic to metal that heats up. When the glue fails (and it will eventually) you will have a fan spinning inside your system hitting who knows what. NOT worth the potential damage.

Especially considering how he ONLY saw a 4 difference (C but what is the F amount for those of us that don't think in metric??? :rolleyes: ) I'd say the case fan replacement will be a far easier, cheaper and better solution. Additional cooling is most likely not even needed, considering how the components shouldn't have an issue with the slight heat increase from the 50MHz boost. IF he was able to boost it up to 600MHz or so, THEN I would suggest additional cooling, as it stands, don't blow your money.

iwantanewmac
Jun 6, 2002, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by topicolo


You should try adding one of those cpu fans that are sold for pcs. That should probably reduce your chip down to 30 C or lower. If you're really crazy, go search for tutorials on how to build a water cooler--you'll probably be able to overclock your computer to like 600Mhz or something :-) :D


I don't think that reducing the temp. would make it possible to overclock it further,with only jumper settings changed.
Like I said. It dropped into open firmware when I tried 500 MHZ. 550 didnt work either.

redAPPLE
Jun 6, 2002, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by topicolo


afterburner is a hack that you can get from www.palmgear.com, but I suggest fastcpu, which lets you do a lot more and it's an app, which tends to leave a palm more stable than a hack and it supports increasing the display refresh rates.
-t

excusez moi for my ignorance. you suggest "fastcpu"? is this a commercially available app?

dubbayoo
Jun 6, 2002, 03:55 AM
Especially considering how he ONLY saw a 4 difference (C but what is the F amount for those of us that don't think in metric??? :rolleyes: )

Every 5 change Celcius is the same as a 9 change Fahrenheit, fwiw. :)

I'm still waiting to get my 2002 iBook (it's on order and in limbo, apparently)... though I can't imagine trying out this 'hack' without some other reports of success. OTOH, it would be quite nice to be able to switch clock speeds on a whim...

blakespot
Jun 6, 2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by wsteineker
How did you overclock your Yikes! board? Was it a hardware or software overclock? If it was software, do you know if it works on the Sawtooth G4s? Thanks!
Again, the only Mac capable of being overclocked in software is the new iBook. (Hence the point of the newsitem post.)


blakespot

blakespot
Jun 6, 2002, 10:52 AM
It's frightening to envision the scenario where someone embeds some code in a trojan horse app that will widly upclock to G3 in the iBook. In no time at all the CPU could be killed. As stated in the linked article, the upper limit for software upclocking on the new iBooks is 2GHz. Setting the speed to 2GHz would wreak untold havoc I would imagine.

The other side of the coin.



blakespot

topicolo
Jun 6, 2002, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by blakespot
It's frightening to envision the scenario where someone embeds some code in a trojan horse app that will widly upclock to G3 in the iBook. In no time at all the CPU could be killed. As stated in the linked article, the upper limit for software upclocking on the new iBooks is 2GHz. Setting the speed to 2GHz would wreak untold havoc I would imagine.

The other side of the coin.



blakespot
Doesn't the PowerPC have a thermal diode that automatically shuts off or reduces the speed of the chip if it is overheating? I know the p4 has it, and the new athlon Tbirds have it, although the mobo makers haven't implemented that feature for the Tbirds yet.

rubikcube
Jun 6, 2002, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by blakespot
It's frightening to envision the scenario where someone embeds some code in a trojan horse app that will widly upclock to G3 in the iBook....

No need to worry about that. The registers that control the cpu speed can only be accessed by the operating system. That means the code to control it would have to reside inside the kernel. There are two ways to get code loaded into the kernel.

1. Manually load it in with a terminal window. You must be the root user to do this.

2. Create a kernel extension that loads at boot up. You can do this, but in order for the operating system to load it, the extension must be in the right place(/System/Library/Extensions). Did I mention this folder can only be written to by the root user?

Now you said it could be in trojan form. The answer to that is that you should think when software asks for your administrator password. Typically, this is only needed by software that accesses hardware. In other words, software like a Packet Sniffer, which must access the ethernet card directly, needs a password, but software like Office for X, Mathematica, or Final Cut Pro shouldn't need your password.

Brad Nelson

Gigglebyte
Aug 16, 2002, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


Expain yourself there mister... in what way does AMD do it? They have two chip lines, the Duron and the XP. They are not the same chips, and the XP's are clocked quite a bit higher then the Duron is.

I wouldn't put anything past intel for scamming people out of money, but I don't get the same feel from AMD. Besides the price difference between a top pee4 and XP chips is huge.

yes AMD does have multiple series of chips but you don't know how the chips are speed rated. Basicly what happens is when AMD (or any chip mfg) makes a batch of chips they aren't all going to be rated at the highest speed. This is because not all the chips are going to be the same quality due to debris or impurities in the wafer or mfg process. After the chips pass QC and are ready for testing they then see what speed they run at, back a few percentages off and go to the next lowest speed rating that they sell. This was very apparent when AMD was shipping their Athlon Slot 650's that would easily hit 800 with just a multiplier change. At that time AMD had just come out with the 750's and 800's and it looked like they had a REAL good batch of silicon because there was a rush for those CPU's. It also happened with the t-Bird 1Gig AIXA chips...people were pumping those up to 1.3 and 1.4 gig. Is this scamming the people? no...is it good business? yes it is. Why flood the market with the high end CPU's and drive the price down when you can still sell them but at a lower clock speed and not have to sit on inventory. Now if we could get back to the matter of OC'ing the new iBooks I want to know how!! I have a 700mhz 12" and want to get this baby cranking :D

Giggle

G4scott
Aug 16, 2002, 07:54 PM
Weren't the original white iBooks able to clock down to 400mhz? If so, then shouldn't a 2001 600mhz iBook be overclockable through software?