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MacBytes
Nov 6, 2008, 12:07 PM
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Category: News and Press Releases
Link: USB 3.0 to Be Unveiled on November 17th (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20081106130717)
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Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
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dukebound85
Nov 6, 2008, 12:14 PM
reason enough for me to hold off on getting a new laptop

5Gbits/sec wow

cube
Nov 6, 2008, 12:15 PM
And elsewhere it says that it won't be finished until next year and products only in 2010.

MasterNile
Nov 6, 2008, 12:45 PM
And elsewhere it says that it won't be finished until next year and products only in 2010.

Sources for this?

cube
Nov 6, 2008, 12:50 PM
Sources for this?

That's the timing for the specification that appeared anywhere you looked at for USB3.

tgdaily just published an article today. The November event is a "first detailed look at the specification" for hardware developers.

evilgEEk
Nov 6, 2008, 12:53 PM
I probably just didn't look hard enough, but I couldn't find if it's using the same connector or will it be new?

I still think if Firewire 800 could have used the same connector as 400 it would have been more widely used.

MasterNile
Nov 6, 2008, 12:59 PM
the first 5-6 google responses for usb 3.0 say 2009 or 2010 for USB 3.0 products, which to me means anywhere from 2 months to 2 years, but 1 year 2 months to 2 years 1 month (beginning of 2010 to end of 2010) seems to be on the outside of the estimate and I didn't find any sources (true it was just a quick search but still...) that said it was completely out of the question for USB 3.0 products to be released in 2009

mkrishnan
Nov 6, 2008, 01:02 PM
I probably just didn't look hard enough, but I couldn't find if it's using the same connector or will it be new?

It's kind of complicated...

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/09/ces_usb_3_revealed/

Basically, the system is fully backwards compatible (like USB2 systems can use USB 1.x devices) but not forwards compatible (AFAICS, the USB3 male plugs cannot be inserted into USB 1-2 female ports), for electrical USB connections. There also appears to be a forthcoming USB3 optical connector, about which I don't know too much.

So it'll be a better situation than FW800 -- you'll be able to plug your USB2 devices into your USB3 ports, and you won't need more than one kind of USB port. But you won't be able to use USB3 devices at step-down functionality level on USB2 computers.

cube
Nov 6, 2008, 01:18 PM
the first 5-6 google responses for usb 3.0 say 2009 or 2010 for USB 3.0 products, which to me means anywhere from 2 months to 2 years, but 1 year 2 months to 2 years 1 month (beginning of 2010 to end of 2010) seems to be on the outside of the estimate and I didn't find any sources (true it was just a quick search but still...) that said it was completely out of the question for USB 3.0 products to be released in 2009

If it's a first look, it's a draft, not a finished specification.

Tektronix is the first provider of test tools for USB3 and they are expecting consumer products for 2010.

SleepyHead157
Nov 6, 2008, 01:21 PM
should be interesting

themoonisdown09
Nov 6, 2008, 02:04 PM
This is probably why Apple dropped the FireWire off of the Macbooks. They don't want people to use FireWire anymore so that when USB 3.0 comes out, all the devices will use that as a standard.

bengal85
Nov 6, 2008, 02:31 PM
WOW 3.0 I going to be amazing I just hope that we can still use 2.0 flash drives because I don't want to pay to replace my 4 2.0's for 3.0 I mean I put a lot of money into getting those

MacsRgr8
Nov 6, 2008, 02:44 PM
This is probably why Apple dropped the FireWire off of the Macbooks. They don't want people to use FireWire anymore so that when USB 3.0 comes out, all the devices will use that as a standard.

Doesn't make sense to drop FireWire now if you don't have USB 3.0 yet.
When all HD cameras and high speed external hard drives come out with USB 3.0 support, you still won't be able to use it on the current MacBook.

macnerd77
Nov 6, 2008, 03:06 PM
Doesn't make sense to drop FireWire now if you don't have USB 3.0 yet.
When all HD cameras and high speed external hard drives come out with USB 3.0 support, you still won't be able to use it on the current MacBook.

Unless Apple Some how has already got usb 3.0 in the Macbook and it is just not enabled. It would not surprise me to see apple do something like this.

cube
Nov 6, 2008, 03:09 PM
Unless Apple Some how has already got usb 3.0 in the Macbook and it is just not enabled. It would not surprise me to see apple do something like this.

With a magical old connector and an unfinished specification?

t0mat0
Nov 6, 2008, 03:54 PM
Hmm WUSB, and USB 3, alongside FW update too - I wonder if any of these would actually hit WWDC announced Macs?

cRuNcHiE
Nov 6, 2008, 05:52 PM
I kind hope they change the shape of the connector.. im forever trying to plug in usb cables the wrong way round when plugging things in at the back or side of the computer without looking. Normal usb connectors just arent keyed very well

mattwolfmatt
Nov 6, 2008, 07:44 PM
WOW 3.0 I going to be amazing I just hope that we can still use 2.0 flash drives because I don't want to pay to replace my 4 2.0's for 3.0 I mean I put a lot of money into getting those

By the time USB 3.0 comes out (2010 probably) you can get a 32GB flash drive for $50. I was recently tempted to get a 16GB one for $80 at Office Max.

Side bar...is there a ceiling on the capacity of those things (flash drives)? I remember being excited about a 128MB one I got for $40 in 2002. Six years later $40 buys you 16GB, or 56 times as big. Will we see 128GB someday in flashdrives? 16TB? 1PB? Am I being ridiculous?

ltldrummerboy
Nov 6, 2008, 08:50 PM
Theoretically, will it be possible to use target disk mode between two Macs with USB 3.0?

ozziegn
Nov 6, 2008, 10:43 PM
reason enough for me to hold off on getting a new laptop

5Gbits/sec wow

then you'll be waiting quite a while because it ain't happening anytime soon.

life's too short to be waiting. get a new laptop now and enjoy it now. you can always sell it later.

DMann
Nov 6, 2008, 11:42 PM
Unless Apple Some how has already got usb 3.0 in the Macbook and it is just not enabled. It would not surprise me to see apple do something like this.

This is hopeful, certainly possible, and would indeed be quite awesome. If not, then a port upgrade would be a welcomed solution.

By the time USB 3.0 comes out (2010 probably) you can get a 32GB flash drive for $50. I was recently tempted to get a 16GB one for $80 at Office Max.

Side bar...is there a ceiling on the capacity of those things (flash drives)? I remember being excited about a 128MB one I got for $40 in 2002. Six years later $40 buys you 16GB, or 56 times as big. Will we see 128GB someday in flashdrives? 16TB? 1PB? Am I being ridiculous?

Not at all - PMC memory - Programmable Metallization Cell memory, or nano-ionic memory, has been developed to counteract the physical limits of current memory storage technology. PMC will be a 1,000 times more efficient than existing flash memory and will exponentially increase the memory capacities of USB drives, digital cameras, laptops and MP3 players. It won't be long before we see products incorporating the new technology. (6-8 months) PMC has attracted interest from several memory vendors, including Micron Technology, Samsung, Sony and IBM. I'm greatly looking forward to 4TB USB memory sticks, which will likely be far more reliable for media backup than current solid state flash memory is.

DoFoT9
Nov 7, 2008, 01:53 AM
hhmm this is very interesting!

at the current rate of HD's i dont really see this as a positive, as they are limited by the actual HD's themselves.

for flash drives and the like it will be absolutely awsome! i wonder what the actual throughput of it will be like, i can't wait to see actual testing of it compared to fw800,1600 & 3200.

havent read anything about how USB3's CPU usage is or anything, i am awaiting the results though!!!!

Analog Kid
Nov 7, 2008, 11:18 AM
Please tell me USB3 isn't all CPU controlled, like previous versions of USB. To my mind, that's one of the biggest advantages of FireWire...

bengal85
Nov 7, 2008, 02:46 PM
By the time USB 3.0 comes out (2010 probably) you can get a 32GB flash drive for $50. I was recently tempted to get a 16GB one for $80 at Office Max.

Side bar...is there a ceiling on the capacity of those things (flash drives)? I remember being excited about a 128MB one I got for $40 in 2002. Six years later $40 buys you 16GB, or 56 times as big. Will we see 128GB someday in flashdrives? 16TB? 1PB? Am I being ridiculous?

Yeah I dont think there is even a PB size yet

ltldrummerboy
Nov 7, 2008, 04:01 PM
To put it in perspective, Facebook has about one PB of pictures stored on their servers. Imagine carrying every single one of those pictures with you on a thumbdrive. Not going to happen anytime soon.

I would still like to know if target disk mode is possible between two computers with USB 3.0.

nagromme
Nov 7, 2008, 04:19 PM
I have a dream of ONE connection. It's round, goes in every which way, and serves all purposes.

Some day.

quarx
Nov 7, 2008, 04:27 PM
I would still like to know if target disk mode is possible between two computers with USB 3.0.
Target mode via USB would require to make the host controller act as a slave, e.g., similar to USB on-the-go devices. So technically, this should already be feasible with USB 2.0. But I guess there is no notebook chipset on the market which supports OTG.

tom.
Nov 7, 2008, 06:31 PM
Exciting stuff. Shame the next MacBook wont have any ports at all! ;)

MacsBestFriend
Nov 7, 2008, 11:24 PM
So is it still OK to buy a AluBook or should I wait possibly until Q1 for the 3.0?

Balty
Nov 7, 2008, 11:26 PM
I have a dream of ONE connection. It's round, goes in every which way, and serves all purposes.

Some day.

Now that would be great!

It'd probably cost a fortune though....

One huge monopoly.....

Chase R
Nov 12, 2008, 06:24 PM
So is it still OK to buy a AluBook or should I wait possibly until Q1 for the 3.0?

USB 3.0 won't find it's way into consumer products until 2010.

Piplodocus
Nov 13, 2008, 12:11 PM
I kind hope they change the shape of the connector.. im forever trying to plug in usb cables the wrong way round when plugging things in at the back or side of the computer without looking. Normal usb connectors just arent keyed very well

+1.

I actually have written my first rule of USB connectors....

"The USB connector always plugs in the 3rd way up for ports you're not looking at".

I always try one way, it doesn't go in, try the other way up, and it definitely doesn't go in. Then try the original again and it goes in.

FrankieTDouglas
Nov 14, 2008, 11:24 PM
What will that do to the CPU, though?

MacsBestFriend
Nov 16, 2008, 01:39 PM
USB 3.0 won't find it's way into consumer products until 2010.

Ahh good to know! I just don't know if I should wait for neleham... right now i only want my mac. I wont need it until September that much...

joeshell383
Nov 16, 2008, 03:19 PM
I probably just didn't look hard enough, but I couldn't find if it's using the same connector or will it be new?

I still think if Firewire 800 could have used the same connector as 400 it would have been more widely used.

Backward Compatible: New Connectors and cables will work with work with devices running the older USB 2.0

the first 5-6 google responses for usb 3.0 say 2009 or 2010 for USB 3.0 products, which to me means anywhere from 2 months to 2 years, but 1 year 2 months to 2 years 1 month (beginning of 2010 to end of 2010) seems to be on the outside of the estimate and I didn't find any sources (true it was just a quick search but still...) that said it was completely out of the question for USB 3.0 products to be released in 2009

The first USB 3.0 devices probably won't show up until the end of 2009 or early 2010, say analysts. But users can get a glimpse into future devices sporting SuperSpeed USB as early as the annual Consumer Electronics Show in January.

It's kind of complicated...

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/09/ces_usb_3_revealed/

Basically, the system is fully backwards compatible (like USB2 systems can use USB 1.x devices) but not forwards compatible (AFAICS, the USB3 male plugs cannot be inserted into USB 1-2 female ports), for electrical USB connections. There also appears to be a forthcoming USB3 optical connector, about which I don't know too much.

So it'll be a better situation than FW800 -- you'll be able to plug your USB2 devices into your USB3 ports, and you won't need more than one kind of USB port. But you won't be able to use USB3 devices at step-down functionality level on USB2 computers.

The new USB 3.0 connectors and devices will be compatible with older USB ports (on devices using USB 2.0 and 1.0) but they will be limited to the older ports' slower speeds.

This is probably why Apple dropped the FireWire off of the Macbooks. They don't want people to use FireWire anymore so that when USB 3.0 comes out, all the devices will use that as a standard.

Killing FireWire

USB 3.0 is likely to signal the death of FireWire/IEEE 1394, a competing interface standard also known as i.Link and Lynx. Today, the industry is bifurcated between IEEE 1394 and USB 2.0. Many devices support both, though a single standard would be optimal.
"If we are all aligned, we are saving money and development time for the industry," says Moorhead.
With Apple seemingly taking step away from FireWire, it seems like USB could gain the upper hand. Apple's newly introduced MacBook computers lack a FireWire port and instead has USB. MacBook Pro still sports FireWire 800.
That leaves Sony as one of the few remaining proponents of the standard.
"FireWire stably declining in most markets and USB 3.0 will continue that trend," says O'Rourke. "We could see USB emerge as the standardization of a high-speed interconnect."
Monday's first USB 3.0 developer conference will be a big step towards that, say experts. "It's for everyone in the USB value chain, from chip makers to software makers to learn the new USB standard and get on it," says O'Rourke.

Source:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/11/superspeed-us-1.html

LERsince1991
Nov 16, 2008, 04:12 PM
Ever wish you could just go to the future, steal some technology and come back like a god haha or at least a fusion battery, iron mans suit, a 1Thz processor computer with 1Tb or RAM and direct human mind to pc connector so you don't need a pc or anything haha.... ya.... :(

Joe The Dragon
Nov 16, 2008, 05:01 PM
Backward Compatible: New Connectors and cables will work with work with devices running the older USB 2.0



The first USB 3.0 devices probably won't show up until the end of 2009 or early 2010, say analysts. But users can get a glimpse into future devices sporting SuperSpeed USB as early as the annual Consumer Electronics Show in January.



The new USB 3.0 connectors and devices will be compatible with older USB ports (on devices using USB 2.0 and 1.0) but they will be limited to the older ports' slower speeds.



Killing FireWire

USB 3.0 is likely to signal the death of FireWire/IEEE 1394, a competing interface standard also known as i.Link and Lynx. Today, the industry is bifurcated between IEEE 1394 and USB 2.0. Many devices support both, though a single standard would be optimal.
"If we are all aligned, we are saving money and development time for the industry," says Moorhead.
With Apple seemingly taking step away from FireWire, it seems like USB could gain the upper hand. Apple's newly introduced MacBook computers lack a FireWire port and instead has USB. MacBook Pro still sports FireWire 800.
That leaves Sony as one of the few remaining proponents of the standard.
"FireWire stably declining in most markets and USB 3.0 will continue that trend," says O'Rourke. "We could see USB emerge as the standardization of a high-speed interconnect."
Monday's first USB 3.0 developer conference will be a big step towards that, say experts. "It's for everyone in the USB value chain, from chip makers to software makers to learn the new USB standard and get on it," says O'Rourke.

Source:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/11/superspeed-us-1.html
firewire 1600 and 3200 uses the same cables and plugs as firewire 800.

USB 3.0 needs new cables and plugs.

DoFoT9
Nov 16, 2008, 05:02 PM
^^ lol yea i agree with yoU!


does anyone else hate USB.. or is it just me???

sushi
Nov 16, 2008, 05:19 PM
Doesn't make sense to drop FireWire now if you don't have USB 3.0 yet.
When all HD cameras and high speed external hard drives come out with USB 3.0 support, you still won't be able to use it on the current MacBook.
True.

Plus, this is just for the specification. It will be a while before we see any products based upon this new specification.

And just because they are advertising a very high speed, I will be curious to see if we really see it in sustained file transfers.

USB is basically a burst mode connection. A USB 2.0 480Mbps connection will see around 200Mbps sustained throughput. Where as a FW400 will see very close to 400Mbps all the time.

Unless Apple Some how has already got usb 3.0 in the Macbook and it is just not enabled. It would not surprise me to see apple do something like this.
Nope. See below.

With a magical old connector and an unfinished specification?
Snort.

does anyone else hate USB.. or is it just me???
:)

mynameisraj
Nov 16, 2008, 09:11 PM
I have a dream of ONE connection. It's round, goes in every which way, and serves all purposes.

Some day.

That's what she said.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

quarx
Nov 17, 2008, 10:55 AM
The USB 3.0 specification is available now: http://www.usb.org/developers/docs