RED announces Scarlet and Epic

P-Worm · Nov 13, 2008

RED has announced their new Scarlet and Epic cameras. Epic promises to shoot up to 28k with framerates at 25fps. Scarlet delivers unbelievable performance for the price. Even better, each section of the camera is interchangeable. Like the body you have, but need a bigger sensor size or better viewfinder? No need to buy a whole new camera, just what you need.

The Times, They are a Changin'

Currently, there isn't complete information for the pricing on the needed accessories to make a complete camera. That means that the total cost of a camera is currently undetermined.

Does this announcement change any of your future plans? I currently use an XH-A1 and I have to say that when this comes out it's going to by mighty tempting.

Discuss.

P-Worm

mtfield · Nov 13, 2008

I've been holding off on my purchase to pick up the revised XH-A1, but now I think I might have to scrap those plans and see where this announcement goes... There are just so many options to choose from! Except I'm pretty skeptical about what a complete kit is going to run me... So I'll wait patiently for some more solid price announcements

SchneiderMan · Nov 13, 2008

the new red product is going to be alot more expensive then $2,000..

mtfield · Nov 13, 2008

SchneiderMan said:
the new red product is going to be alot more expensive then $2,000..

Scarlet was originally $3k not $2k, but yes that is the fear... seems like scarlet got a little price bump..

LethalWolfe · Nov 13, 2008

As usual RED seemingly exceeds expectations. It will be interesting to see what develops over the coming months and if after the Red One they are better able to anticipate problems and keep closer to announced production schedule. It does definitely look like the price of entry jumped up, but realistically I never thought they would get a shoot-ready camera out the door for under $6k.

Lethal

pdpfilms · Nov 13, 2008

LethalWolfe said:
As usual RED seemingly exceeds expectations. It will be interesting to see what develops over the coming months and if after the Red One they are better able to anticipate problems and keep closer to announced production schedule. It does definitely look like the price of entry jumped up, but realistically I never thought they would get a shoot-ready camera out the door for under $6k.

Lethal

Judging by the price of the cheapest interchangeable lens brain (3K mini-red mount scarlet, $2500), the fixed-lens brain should not be much more than $3500. Theoretically, you could get it running with a single battery pack, CF module, EVF/LCD, and controller. With prices unlisted it's hard to estimate, but my guess is it would run less than $6000.

Interchangeable lenses on the other hand (real ones mind you, not the mini-reds), will be unattainable for less than $6000, seeing as the S35 Scarlet with PL/Nikon/Canon mount is $7000.

bigbossbmb · Nov 13, 2008

I was at work last night when the images started flowing in and then the when the specs got posted, I had to stop work for a while... These specs are incredible. I sold my DVX package a few months ago since I'm more focused on post now... but it's good to know that renting a 2/3" Scarlet package would probably run 400-550/week. That's not bad at all.

LethalWolfe · Nov 13, 2008

pdpfilms said:
Judging by the price of the cheapest interchangeable lens brain (3K mini-red mount scarlet, $2500), the fixed-lens brain should not be much more than $3500. Theoretically, you could get it running with a single battery pack, CF module, EVF/LCD, and controller. With prices unlisted it's hard to estimate, but my guess is it would run less than $6000.

Just going by the prices on current RED accessories the EVF is $3k, the LCD is $1700/$2500 depending on model, the CF module is $500, battery pack is $450, the battery charger is $550 (can the camera charge the battery?) the new REDhandle is ???, and the DSMC I/O module is ??? (does the camera have audio 'in' on the brain?).

It will be interesting to see what they price the fixed lens 3K Scarlet at because that camera really is the odd man out in their product line.

pdpfilms · Nov 13, 2008

LethalWolfe said:
Just going by the prices on current RED accessories the EVF is $3k, the LCD is $1700/$2500 depending on model, the CF module is $500, battery pack is $450, the battery charger is $550 (can the camera charge the battery?) the new REDhandle is ???, and the DSMC I/O module is ??? (does the camera have audio 'in' on the brain?).

It will be interesting to see what they price the fixed lens 3K Scarlet at because that camera really is the odd man out in their product line.

Sure is. You've got a good point- current prices add up to a hefty sum. However I'm expecting the accessory prices to drop; those in the market for a $2500 brain wouldn't think of spending $3000 for an EVF.

LethalWolfe · Nov 13, 2008

pdpfilms said:
Sure is. You've got a good point- current prices add up to a hefty sum. However I'm expecting the accessory prices to drop; those in the market for a $2500 brain wouldn't think of spending $3000 for an EVF.

The accessories are supposed to scale from a $2.5k brain up to a $55k brian though. If you make something cheaper for the prosumers you'll piss off the hi-end users. If you make something expensive for the hi-end users you'll piss off the prosumers. If you make accessory product tiers you'll piss off everyone 'cause the 'just replace the brain' modularity goes out the window. By providing only one line of accessories they'll be better able to leverage economies of scale, but creating a one size, one price fits all line up is going to be challenging.

Lethal

zephyrnoid · Nov 13, 2008

I had to pinch myself, cause I thought I was seeing a dream of modularity fulfilled. Indeed, these words assured me that I was dreaming:
Delivery, configuration and price subject to infinite change and modification without notice.
What? Not even an itty bitty clue about when and how much ???
Oh well!

LethalWolfe · Nov 13, 2008

Current prices and delivery guesses are listed in the link in the first post.

Lethal

KeithPratt · Nov 13, 2008

The 617 is ridiculous.

ChemiosMurphy · Nov 13, 2008

Keith, I totally agree with you. 26k. That's just unfathomable. 28,0000 horizontal pixels. That's 11 thirty inch ACD's just to get the width, and another 6 high. 66 ACDs worth of picture. Holy ish.

bki122689 · Nov 13, 2008

red cameras are the future. but man would i like to get my hands on one of those red cameras.

Chundles · Nov 13, 2008

What sort of rig can even play/edit 28k footage?

P-Worm · Nov 14, 2008

Chundles said:
What sort of rig can even play/edit 28k footage?

That's not really the point. It's expected that you will reduce the resolution for output. The main draw is that by starting with an enormous size, it gives you a lot of control in terms of things like special effects work or grain control. Think of it this way - if you were cutting out a shape, it's much easier to be precise if you can zoom in a large amount without pixels showing up. 28k footage gives you that freedom.

P-Worm

mtfield · Nov 14, 2008

Chundles said:
What sort of rig can even play/edit 28k footage?

I don't think RED designed the 28k so much for actual use... I mean sure there might be some people out there that might want to actually pick up that camera for some reason or another (HIGH special effects IMAX

, or NASA might have some use for it) but I think the real reason they did it was to give a big kick in the pants to other companies. It's basically them saying, "what are you guys doing???? forget your plan of growing over the next 10 years... we're doing it in a year... 28k! catch up guys..." I think that's the real point of the RED 617 kind of a

to the other camera companies

LethalWolfe · Nov 14, 2008

Keep in mind that the 28k camera is at least two years off and only would be used in specialized situations. Kinda like the Phantom HD high speed camera.

Lethal

ccuk · Nov 17, 2008

LethalWolfe said:
Keep in mind that the 28k camera is at least two years off and only would be used in specialized situations. Kinda like the Phantom HD high speed camera.

Lethal

I have a feeling the 617 could be used in effects heavy shots. But I think seeing as RED are entering into the DSMC arena, you can safely bet that the 617 has many uses in large format stills photography for billboards etc.

Interesting times lay ahead.

Chris7 · Nov 18, 2008

At about $6K, would this make the Scarlet 2/3 the cheapest camera that does real 1080p (besides the consumer Canons of course)?

P-Worm · Nov 18, 2008

Chris7 said:
At about $6K, would this make the Scarlet 2/3 the cheapest camera that does real 1080p (besides the consumer Canons of course)?

This is a hard question to answer. First, we don't know how much the cheapest version of this camera is going to cost. The fixed lens 2/3 Scarlet will be the cheapest, but there is no set price yet. Also, I don't know what you mean by 'real' 1080p. If you are just referring to video with a frame size of 1920x1080, then there are much cheaper options. But the size of the video is only a piece of what makes a good camera. The lens, manual control, how much color information is recorded, depth of field...There's a long list of factors.

RED is pushing the bounds of a lot of these other bits that other companies skimp out on. There's a good chance that Scarlet is going to be the best bang-for-your-buck, but it is not going to be the cheapest 1080p camera out there.

P-Worm

axiomission · Nov 18, 2008

It's not even a 1080p camera. It's 3K.

And it's not video. It's REDCODE RAW, so the color subsampling is not applied until you convert it to a video timeline.

It's beautiful

42MB/s is quite an endeavor!

Chris7 · Nov 18, 2008

P-Worm said:
Also, I don't know what you mean by 'real' 1080p. If you are just referring to video with a frame size of 1920x1080, then there are much cheaper options.
P-Worm

I realize there's a lot more than number of pixels that make a good camera, and I have no doubt that the Scarlet 2/3 will be the best cameral for the price. I said “real” just to contrast it with Canon’s 24F and 30F (XH A1) which “fakes” progressive scan.

rotorblade69 · Nov 18, 2008

28k for when you really need that "Long Shot"

in a porno movie.

Bang chaka waw waw.

NO really 28k cool now to sell my blood. All I have to do is keep my brain wet, and I can still live if I keep the brain soaked.

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