HP files lawsuit against Microsoft, and considers abandoning Windows all together !

[Rybold]

Hewlett Packard (HP) has filed a lawsuit against Microsoft and is considering abandoning Windows all together. HP would develop their own software for their PCs. I'm sure Steve Jobs just loves seeing Microsoft in the begger's position. :D

http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/21/vista-hp-msft-tech-enter-cx_bc_1121vista.html?partner=yahootix

Try the above link first. Only if the link does not work for some reason, then I posted the text of the article below.
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FORBES -
Microsoft: Don't Mess With HP
Brian Caulfield, 11.21.08, 06:00 PM EST
Angry e-mails from HP to Microsoft could explain HP's skunk works project to build its own consumer interface.

Watch your back, Monkey Boy. You may have messed with the wrong bunch of PC builders.

A court filing unsealed Thursday as part of a class-action lawsuit against Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ) revealed that Hewlett-Packard (nyse: HPQ - news - people ) Chief Executive Mark Hurd e-mailed Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer to complain about HP's "call lines being overrun," with customers struggling to upgrade to Vista. "I'm sure you're aware of this," Hurd added. The full text of the e-mail has not yet been released, but Hurd's complaints to Ballmer are the latest signs of escalating tensions between HP and Microsoft caused by the launch of Windows Vista in 2007.

The lawsuit accuses Microsoft of slapping labels on PCs that said the machines were Vista-capable when they didn't have the processing power needed to run some of the operating system's most touted features.

E-mails released Nov. 14 as part of the case show Richard Walker, the head of HP's PC business, hinting at the customer trouble to come in a Feb, 1, 2006, e-mail to Ballmer and other members of Microsoft's management team. "I hope this incident isn't a foretaste of the relationship I will have with Microsoft going forward, but I can tell you that it's left a very bad taste," Walker wrote. "The decision you have made has taken away an investment we made consciously for competitive advantage knowing that some players would choose not to."

That e-mail triggered panic at Microsoft. Jim Allchin, then co-president of Microsoft's platforms and services division, quickly sent a follow-up note to Ballmer. "I am beyond being upset here," he wrote. Ballmer pointed the finger at Will Poole, then corporate vice president for client business, which is responsible for the Windows operating system. "I had nothing to do with this," Ballmer wrote. "Will [Poole] handled everything. ... You better get Will under control." Poole scrambled to repair the damage. "Jim [Allchin] is rightly upset that hp went non-linear after having intel break explicit agreement with me and tell them of the new plan b4 we could explain and mitigate," Poole wrote in a note to Ballmer and other Microsoft executives on Feb. 3, 2006. "I have that under control with hp, for now, but was very painful. Some vp at intel is to blame, we don't know who yet."

Ballmer's e-mail response: "Great by me but Jim [Alchin] is apoplectic. I know nothing of the details, please advise." Allchin retired from Microsoft in January 2007. Poole later moved to Microsoft's Unlimited Potential group, dedicated to closing the "digital divide," before leaving Microsoft earlier this year.

And while practically everyone associated with Vista at Microsoft is now gone, Walker remains at HP. And in in a twist worthy of The Sopranos, Walker has assembled a group dedicated to putting its own stamp on the Vista operating system.

HP's Customer Experience group, led by Susie Wee, has quietly put it ahead of Apple (nasdaq: AAPL - news - people ), by some measures, at incorporating new elements such as touch sensitivity into computer interfaces (see "Fixing Vista").

The $1,149 HP TouchSmart tx2 Notebook PC, launched this week, is the latest result of that effort. It puts the touch-screen interface HP developed for its TouchSmart line of PCs onto a notebook computer. Many had expected that Apple would release a notebook with a touch-sensitive screen first. Instead, Apple incorporated the multitouch gestures used on the iPhone into its notebooks' track pads.

The moves hint that HP could bring some of its research muscle to bear on PC software. The company has plenty of operating-system expertise, selling machines running Linux, Windows and a number of its own operating systems, including HP-UX, OpenVMS and NonStop.

If HP wanted to, it could easily slap its whizzy touch-sensitive interface onto Linux or even a proprietary operating system. And with its lion's share of the worldwide PC market, such an offering would be an instant threat to Microsoft. It would also protect HP from having to compete with anyone who managed to cram Vista onto his machine, a thought that we know has occurred to more than a few of the big brains in HP's engineering department.

"It's not very often you get pulled out of a meeting by a group of engineers who feel that they have had the rug pulled out from underneath them so that any competitive advantage we may have had in the marketplace is taken away, enabling any Tom, Dick or Harry with a PC containing a non-compliant processor/chip set to play at the same table," one e-mail from an HP employee read.

So will HP try to take out Windows? HP's Walker has the means, and the Vista debacle gives him a motive. Ballmer better make damn sure that when Microsoft launches Windows 7 he doesn't give him the opportunity.

[dukebound85]

i hope so. i really hope linux gets a backing by a big company in a sense

[JG271]

Nice. I've always favored HP as a windows-based PC manufacturer - compared to dell and such. I'd be really interested to see what they come up with, the computer industry needs a bit more competition on the OS front.

And I think the poll could do with more options :) . I think Microsoft's downfall was being too eager to wildly chase large sections of the market that they never could capture or influence too much.

[elppa]

Some of this may be bravado. Kind of like a bargaining tool for later dealings with Redmond.

On one hand they (HP) may look at how hard building an OS actually is (at lot of R&D outlay in difficult conditions) and settle for Windows 7, which by all accounts is shaping up like the best version of Windows version since 2000.

On the other hand HP have been experimenting recently with making UIs with their touch smart technology. Also HP already has expertise in building a UNIX like operating system with HP UX.

It would be the biggest threat Apple has had to their business model in years. They've rarely had to compete with a company who craft their own hardware and software and a tightly integrated product which caters for consumer needs.

[andreab35]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5G77 Safari/525.20)

Hmmmm... abandoning Windows... seems like a good move their making. lol
Bring in the Linux! :p

[MisterMe]

...

It would be the biggest threat Apple has had to their business model in years. They've rarely had to compete with a company who craft their own hardware and software and a tightly integrated product which caters for consumer needs.Wrong. The exact opposite is much more likely. For HP to abandon Windows would represent an overnight loss in Microsoft marketshare and leverage over the personal and server computer markets. There are numerous cases of similar falls. The Big 3 automobile manufacturers and the Big 3 broadcast television networks are two obvious examples. The story that follows is the same. With the big players less dominant, the smaller players proliferate and prosper.

HP is either No. 1 or No. 2 among Microsoft OEMs. With it no longer in the Microsoft fold, all other players will be in a much stronger position. Apple is already doing extremely well. It is best situated to take advantage of a smaller, weaker Microsoft.

[Queso]

I work a lot with corporate IT departments. There isn't a person amongst them happy with Microsoft right now. Internal applications are being migrated more and more towards open standards, which will allow migrations away from Microsoft solutions. The server rooms will go first. In the meantime they are planning to pursue open source software alternatives to pressure Microsoft into price reductions on Office and Windows desktop licenses.

It's finally happening. Microsoft are definitely now in the wane.

[kabunaru]

Do you gentlemen think Apple should licence Mac OS X to HP after they are done with Windows?

[QuantumLo0p]

Do you gentlemen think Apple should licence Mac OS X to HP after they are done with Windows?

So far Apple has steadfastly denied any possibility of ever licensing OS-X to other hardware oem's but...

Steve Jobs repeatedly bold face lied every time he stated Apple will never use Intel processors. This was evident when Apple revealed a road map detailing the use of Intel processors. The finale of Steve's elaborate deception came when he stated Apple has been testing every version of OS-X on intel since 10.0.

What I am trying to say is, unless you have lunch the company officers do not trust much of what they tell you. They are officers because they are good at what they do and that includes grand deceptions.
:D

[rdowns]

Now that we've all had our little fantasy, let's get real. HP is not going to abandon Windows and produce their own OS. Can you imagine the costs involved with that? Development and testing costs, huge marketing costs, developing software to run on it, retraining. The infrastructure that HP would need is staggering.

The fact is, MS is so entrenched on the desktop and in corporate networks that they would have to do something so egregious as to lose that edge. No matter how much people hate MS, moving away is a huge undertaking that most will never be willing to do.

[Queso]

The fact is, MS is so entrenched on the desktop and in corporate networks that they would have to do something so egregious as to lose that edge. No matter how much people hate MS, moving away is a huge undertaking that most will never be willing to do.
The IT departments I'm working with would disagree there. The fact they are even considering it is a major change from five years ago, never mind that they are moving their in-house apps off Microsoft technology dependencies. It takes years to move a major enterprise from one computer platform to another, but all the pre-work for the post Microsoft era is already being put in place. All it will take is for Windows 7 to be as badly received as Vista and major companies are going to start defecting. HP want to be ready for that, hence their very public hedging of bets.

[kabunaru]

Now that we've all had our little fantasy, let's get real. HP is not going to abandon Windows and produce their own OS. Can you imagine the costs involved with that? Development and testing costs, huge marketing costs, developing software to run on it, retraining. The infrastructure that HP would need is staggering.


Unless HP becomes an Linux PC company. That saves the trouble of making a new OS. ;)

[Rybold]

The IT departments I'm working with would disagree there. The fact they are even considering it is a major change from five years ago, never mind that they are moving their in-house apps off Microsoft technology dependencies. It takes years to move a major enterprise from one computer platform to another, but all the pre-work for the post Microsoft era is already being put in place. All it will take is for Windows 7 to be as badly received as Vista and major companies are going to start defecting. HP want to be ready for that, hence their very public hedging of bets.

I'm wondering why people even switched from XP to Vista in the first place. I'm still running XP on the computer I'm using right now and it works great. Why did companies run out and spend money on Vista, when XP worked just fine? :confused:

Do you gentlemen think Apple should licence Mac OS X to HP after they are done with Windows?

It would be a great opportunity for Apple to step into the Big Picture and say to the world "You don't like Vista but you need a standard across the corporate IT world, and we are here and ready to deliver that to you." The could create and begin marketing a whole new division, called "Apple Business Solutions" or something like that.

[jaw04005]

By the way, that TouchSmart PC they reference is really neat. I could easily see something like that being your "kitchen" PC of the future. HP did a good job on their proprietary interface too.

[rdowns]

I'm wondering why people even switched from XP to Vista in the first place. I'm still running XP on the computer I'm using right now and it works great. Why did companies run out and spend money on Vista, when XP worked just fine? :confused:



It would be a great opportunity for Apple to step into the Big Picture and say to the world "You don't like Vista but you need a standard across the corporate IT world, and we are here and ready to deliver that to you." The could create and begin marketing a whole new division, called "Apple Business Solutions" or something like that.


Businesses have not switched to Vista by and large. In fact,many will likely skip it all together.

Apple is in no way ready to try and enter the corporate market. They lack the infrastructure to do so.

[mknawabi]

Heh, Apple isn't doing too great compared to past times. "Every empire has to fail", right?

[millar876]

I think it may be possible that if HP were serious about ditching m$, they could hammer out a deal with apple to get OSX for their hardware, remember there were some HP branded iPods on the go a few years back. Also, a vendor like HP, could implement the kind of hardware controll apple might request and could implement the same processes/hardware that enables osx to be installed onto macs, allowing osx only on HP machines after the switch.

[Digital Skunk]

Do you gentlemen think Apple should licence Mac OS X to HP after they are done with Windows?

No, I think, like many have said, that HP should grab a hold of Linux and give it the backing that it needs to be a real OSX/Windows competitor.

Unless HP becomes an Linux PC company. That saves the trouble of making a new OS. ;)

I agree. HP making it's own OS from scratch or from the small bits of software that they do have would be a catastrophe. HP needs to get a hold of Linux and give it the financial and corporate backing that Apple gives Mac OS X.

The HP workstations are a thing of beauty, and the Blackbird 002 is still the best designed desktop internally and externally and would take the biggest hit since you don't find too many big name games for it, but that could be fixed with time.

Other than that, I could see many software titles moving over to Linux with the backing of HP, as well as a bigger surge in the awareness of the many open source titles.

I don't think Apple lacks the infrastructure to enter the enterprise market, but I do think they lack the desire to make products and offer services that will vary from business to business and depart to department. I also don't think Apple will EVER have on-site service for anything but their servers with the super-duper Apple Care support.

[t0mat0]

The whole set of published pdfs of the emails makes interesting reading (seeing Intel's, Microsoft's, Sony's, Dell's, and HP's position in the whole PC labelling suit.

HP took a decent position for the customers - they worked on giving the customer a decent computer that could actually give Aero etc, and be a decent spec.
A lot of the relevant emails and such seem still to be redacted, but the quotes from the OP show part of the initial reaction. Caving to Intel kinda pissed off HP enough I guess. (HP got something back out it, as Microsoft gave them more publicity I think).

[elppa]

Heh, Apple isn't doing too great compared to past times. "Every empire has to fail", right?

No, Apple is healthier than they have ever been.

[kabunaru]

Heh, Apple isn't doing too great compared to past times. "Every empire has to fail", right?

This is true to the point and someday United States will fall like the Roman Empire as well.
Someday Apple will become the new Microsoft and Linux will become the new Apple.

[mysterytramp]

I don't see Microsoft suffering too terribly much. The most likely result is that HP will get the right to sell XP with its desktops, a legal decision that will come right about the time that the current low-end desktops will have the power to run Vista comfortably.

Having said that, Apple has lots of cash in the bank. Overnight it could build the infrastructure to support corporate America.

A deal with HP would ultimately mean Apple has to get out of the hardware business or get out of the OS business. Unless you control both, you can only control one (the IBM lesson).

Speaking of IBM, its OS/2 is still kicking around under another name. I'd bet that's a more likely Windows replacement candidate than OS X

mt

[Beric]

I think it may be possible that if HP were serious about ditching m$, they could hammer out a deal with apple to get OSX for their hardware, remember there were some HP branded iPods on the go a few years back. Also, a vendor like HP, could implement the kind of hardware controll apple might request and could implement the same processes/hardware that enables osx to be installed onto macs, allowing osx only on HP machines after the switch.

That would be a dream come true (I like HP hardware). But HP would kill Apple due to its prices actually being competitive.

[kabunaru]

That would be a dream come true (I like HP hardware). But HP would kill Apple due to its prices actually being competitive.

What do you think about this?:
Apple= iPods, iPhones and AppleTV company
HP = Macs and Linux PC company
Apple gives it's computer business to HP.

[GSMiller]

While I'm all for HP abandoning Windows, I think it's a bit unfair to place all the blame of the "Vista Ready" fiasco on Microsoft. They were HP's computers, they could have said NO to the whole program.

[Digital Skunk]

That would be a dream come true (I like HP hardware). But HP would kill Apple due to its prices actually being competitive.

Nope, if HP was selling Mac OS X with it's machines they'd want the same amount of profit margin that Apple is getting.

They'd price their machines at the same, or close to what Apple is selling their machines for.

[Beric]

Nope, if HP was selling Mac OS X with it's machines they'd want the same amount of profit margin that Apple is getting.

They'd price their machines at the same, or close to what Apple is selling their machines for.

That's true.

I just have a conundrum. I prefer standard PC hardware, and I prefer the Apple OS.

[Digital Skunk]

That's true.

I just have a conundrum. I prefer standard PC hardware, and I prefer the Apple OS.

Don't worry, all of those in the "Know" do.

I would have said the same thing if I didn't read a very very VERY good discussion about it on these forums.

And it's currently a general/accepted fact that Apple leverages OSX to raise the price of pretty much ordinary hardware.

...users who are used to Windows will leave HP behind if HP tries to force them to switch....

You bring up a point I never thought about. I wonder, if HP does try to adapt Linux based OSes for their machines and even gave it the support of major 3rd party apps, would the average user want to have to choose between 3 different operating systems.

As geeks we may find it very interesting, but I wonder what the average user may think about it.....

Then again, something similar has been done before.

[belvdr]

HP has their own OS: HP-UX. Of course, getting user-based application support would be interesting to say the least.

I think they'll stick with MS. They would need to get Linux support scaled up very quickly to handle it. Besides, users who are used to Windows will leave HP behind if HP tries to force them to switch. It'll take many manufacturers pulling together to ditch Microsoft.

[IJ Reilly]

Now that we've all had our little fantasy, let's get real. HP is not going to abandon Windows and produce their own OS. Can you imagine the costs involved with that? Development and testing costs, huge marketing costs, developing software to run on it, retraining. The infrastructure that HP would need is staggering.

The fact is, MS is so entrenched on the desktop and in corporate networks that they would have to do something so egregious as to lose that edge. No matter how much people hate MS, moving away is a huge undertaking that most will never be willing to do.

Exactly. HP and some of the other big OEMs have chafed under Microsoft's yoke in the past, but they have never broken loose. In fact, they've never even tried. The reason? They simply can't. Their business is reselling Windows. What are they going to do, stop?

[godslabrat]

Exactly. HP and some of the other big OEMs have chafed under Microsoft's yoke in the past, but they have never broken loose. In fact, they've never even tried. The reason? They simply can't. Their business is reselling Windows. What are they going to do, stop?

The boldest move I could see them making would be to make a sub-line of HP-Supported Linux PCs, and adding that to their current lineup. If these PCs do even modestly well, MS will feel it.

Thing is, and this is why I can't totally dismiss this as a fantasy, this is not totally unlike HP to do something like this. As a rule, HP will try new and wacky products, so long as they don't exist at the expense of their existing line. The money saved on Windows licenses could easily offset the added cost of keeping a few extra SKUs in inventory.

Even if this were to fail, it'd likely be a very cheap failure. Is HP going to dump Windows? Crap no! But might they experiment with other options? I'd say it's something they want to do.

[pilotError]

Now that we've all had our little fantasy, let's get real. HP is not going to abandon Windows and produce their own OS. Can you imagine the costs involved with that? Development and testing costs, huge marketing costs, developing software to run on it, retraining. The infrastructure that HP would need is staggering.

The fact is, MS is so entrenched on the desktop and in corporate networks that they would have to do something so egregious as to lose that edge. No matter how much people hate MS, moving away is a huge undertaking that most will never be willing to do.

Agreed.

This is a strategy and nothing more.

HP's departure from MS would only server to build up Dell's presence in the marketplace. It would be suicidal, since it would just confuse the consumer and the consumer would go elsewhere.

Apple might benefit from some of the backlash, but for the most part, the major Vista issues have been corrected in the consumer lines.

[IJ Reilly]

The boldest move I could see them making would be to make a sub-line of HP-Supported Linux PCs, and adding that to their current lineup. If these PCs do even modestly well, MS will feel it.

Thing is, and this is why I can't totally dismiss this as a fantasy, this is not totally unlike HP to do something like this. As a rule, HP will try new and wacky products, so long as they don't exist at the expense of their existing line. The money saved on Windows licenses could easily offset the added cost of keeping a few extra SKUs in inventory.

Even if this were to fail, it'd likely be a very cheap failure. Is HP going to dump Windows? Crap no! But might they experiment with other options? I'd say it's something they want to do.

HP sells Windows PCs because there's a demand for Windows PCs. Simply selling the same boxes with Linux installed is not going to create a demand for Linux boxes. Companies like HP might like to experiment, and to distance themselves from Microsoft, but they really don't have any realistic opportunities for doing so -- or they would have already.

[gkarris]

HP won't give up Windows - that would be the end of them if they did.

I can see them doing more bundling with Linux, as it's a bit cheaper and consumers are starting to pinch pennies.

It would be more of a major blow if Steve Jobs decides to make iTunes and QuickTime for Linux so you can use your iPod/iPhone on those sytems.

Then, who would REALLY need Microsoft (unless you have a Zune, of course...) ;)

[rdowns]

It would be more of a major blow if Steve Jobs decides to make iTunes and QuickTime for Linux so you can use your iPod/iPhone on those sytems.


Unless Linux has sufficient market share, it would make no sense for Apple to do this. Why open up a war on another front and add to your development costs?

[ChrisA]

Now that we've all had our little fantasy, let's get real. HP is not going to abandon Windows and produce their own OS. Can you imagine the costs involved with that? Development and testing costs, huge marketing costs, developing software to run on it, retraining. The infrastructure that HP would need is staggering.

You are only 3/4 right. HP will not abandon Windows and yes the cost of building other OSes is high

But as for developing their own OS. They already have done that several times over HP sells and supports several non-Windows OSes. HP-UX is one and Open VMS is the other. (there are some minor ones too.) They also sell Linux based machines but HP did not develop Linux.

Look on the hp.com web site. And you will find two entire "ecosystems" of OSes and software. training and support classes and on-site services and consulting all based in non-Windows, non-linux OSes that were developed by HP.

You were also 100% correct when you wrote "The infrastructure that HP would need is staggering" Yes it is staggering. thousands of people are involved.

Check it out on HP's own web site
http://h20338.www2.hp.com/hpux11i/cache/324545-0-0-0-121.html
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/

Remember when HP bought DEC? DEC was one of those older computer companies. In those days all computer companies bullt their own CPUs, computers and wrote their own OSes and most of the software. They were like Apple in the PPC days. Now Apple, Sun, IBM and maybe HP are the only ones left who can build everything from the ground up There used to be dozens of companies like that.

My favorite was Symbolics. I actually used and programmed Symbolics Lisp Machine, SGI workstation running Irix,a VAX/VMS, Univac and CDC Cyber 6400, Perkin Elmers and so on. It would really be nice to see a few dozen OSes back on the market again. Actually we still have this when you move away from the desktop and sever markets and get into embedded computing and DSP

[IJ Reilly]

Remember when HP bought DEC? DEC was one of those older computer companies. In those days all computer companies bullt their own CPUs, computers and wrote their own OSes and most of the software. They were like Apple in the PPC days. Now Apple, Sun, IBM and maybe HP are the only ones left who can build everything from the ground up There used to be dozens of companies like that.

My favorite was Symbolics. I actually used and programmed Symbolics Lisp Machine, SGI workstation running Irix,a VAX/VMS, Univac and CDC Cyber 6400, Perkin Elmers and so on. It would really be nice to see a few dozen OSes back on the market again. Actually we still have this when you move away from the desktop and sever markets and get into embedded computing and DSP

True, but I don't think it works to compare desktop computers to minicomputers and mainframes, especially not to days of yore (which I remember all to well) when these computers were not called upon to do the wide variety of tasks that PCs are today. The real issue is not so much developing and supporting the OS, difficult as that may be, but in developing the shelf of high-quality, widely-used applications that people expect to have for their PCs. Even Apple, with its long track record with the Mac, and the thousands of software titles available, in the eyes of many, suffers in comparison to Windows in this respect. As much as it would be great to see many more operating systems on the market again, I think we have to acknowledge the vast difficulties involved in doing so successfully.

[godslabrat]

HP sells Windows PCs because there's a demand for Windows PCs. Simply selling the same boxes with Linux installed is not going to create a demand for Linux boxes. Companies like HP might like to experiment, and to distance themselves from Microsoft, but they really don't have any realistic opportunities for doing so -- or they would have already.

HP doesn't need to create demand for Linux PCs, that demand is already there, albeit in small numbers. There are customers who actually would like a prebuilt PC with Linux preloaded, and there are also customers that could be talked into it if they're presented with the option. HP is in business to help HP, not MS, and if MS starts affecting HP's bottom line, they will seek alternatives.

I'm not saying this is a bulletproof business move-- it carries risks like any other. What I am saying is that it does make sense for HP to put this option on the table, and that it's not unlike them to try something like this.

[IJ Reilly]

HP doesn't need to create demand for Linux PCs, that demand is already there, albeit in small numbers. There are customers who actually would like a prebuilt PC with Linux preloaded, and there are also customers that could be talked into it if they're presented with the option. HP is in business to help HP, not MS, and if MS starts affecting HP's bottom line, they will seek alternatives.

I'm not saying this is a bulletproof business move-- it carries risks like any other. What I am saying is that it does make sense for HP to put this option on the table, and that it's not unlike them to try something like this.

Hasn't Dell offered Linux preinstalled on PCs for some time? I know they did for a while at least. Others have, certainly -- I've seen these products advertised. The fact is, it hasn't caught on in the PC buying world, and I don't see how HP could change all of that. I mean, good luck to them if they want to try. They're going to need it, especially if Microsoft decides to punish them for wandering off the reservation.

[n8mac]

Steve Jobs repeatedly bold face lied every time he stated Apple will never use Intel processors. This was evident when Apple revealed a road map detailing the use of Intel processors. The finale of Steve's elaborate deception came when he stated Apple has been testing every version of OS-X on intel since 10.0.

A particullary dark period of time in :apple: history IMO. While I don't hold companies to the same standards as my friends and family, I have come to abhor lying regardless of it's source.

[pilotError]

True, but I don't think it works to compare desktop computers to minicomputers and mainframes, especially not to days of yore (which I remember all to well) when these computers were not called upon to do the wide variety of tasks that PCs are today. The real issue is not so much developing and supporting the OS, difficult as that may be, but in developing the shelf of high-quality, widely-used applications that people expect to have for their PCs. Even Apple, with its long track record with the Mac, and the thousands of software titles available, in the eyes of many, suffers in comparison to Windows in this respect. As much as it would be great to see many more operating systems on the market again, I think we have to acknowledge the vast difficulties involved in doing so successfully.

Agreed!

Dell won't go there, but it is fun to speculate.

For those that don't know, Microsoft has a full IP License to OpenVMS. Cutler worked on early verions of VMS at DEC and since the VMS guys can do some pretty incredible stuff, MS went ahead and licensed the IP.

HP also owns the old Tandem non-stop OS, HP/UX and a host of others. I believe they (actually DEC / Digital Unix) were part of the MACH committee back in the day. I believe that Digital Unix / BSD / OS X are all based on MACH microkernel or used to be.


Where is the reality in all of this?

The power of any OS is to garner developer support in creating applications for that platform. Given that, Microsoft and .NET are the premier (God I hate saying that) Front end development platform in big business. Web development for internal apps is probably a distant second with custom platforms even further back. I don't see HP being able gather enough support to do anything significant to bring in ISV support.

Linux is getting closer every day, but most will never make that leap of faith. Dell tested the waters, but I don't think they sell Linux PC's anymore do they?

Apple is growing mainly because of the switch to Intel and those shiny happy Apple stores. Apple can run MS Office, which is huge. Don't underestimate the power of Microsofts consumer mindshare. Apple also has some big niche markets (publishing / video) which are now considered mainstream. A few years ago, people weren't making videos of themselves and posting on youtube.

Would Apple ever consider licensing OS X? I doubt it... The one exception would be for cross licensing of technologies and worldwide support. HP is one of those organizations that bought into several very large support organizations. Apple can't succeed in the global business world because they don't have the support infrastructure to handle that.

In the old days when MS was growing, they enlisted the help of the big ISV's (HP, DEC, Compaq, others) to provide the hardware, but also to provide support for MS products. That was the real start of the MS Certifications, led mainly by Compaq at the time. MS grew, because the big vendors were now selling MS software into their corporate customers and doing the OS support which MS could never have handled on their own. It was win-win at the time, because the vendors could sell their value-added services at a nice premium and customers got large scale deployment and support of the desktop.

Apple would need help from the ISV's to do a big global push.

I don't think that's Apple nor Steve's style. It goes against everything he believes in.

As far as controlling the hardware, Apple is into syle and aestetics of its hardware. HP (and Dell for that matter) can build anything that Apple can and to Apple's standards if need be, but they don't bring that style to the table. It would also undercut Apples core business as people would line up in droves at Walmart to buy $299 Dell OS X machines on Black Friday. They would have a hard time selling those higher end iMacs and Macbooks.

[johnb300m]

On the contrary. HP's Pavilion laptops as of late have been extremely stylish and cutting edge on design with their housing imprinting. Their notebook designs are also quite high in quality.
I've been impressed.