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MacRumors
Feb 16, 2004, 07:44 AM
ThinkSecret updates (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/tsnotes10.html) with a number of small blurbs... the most interesting of which involves some information of PowerMac G5 updates.

According to the rumor site, while Apple has received PowerPC 970FX chips from IBM for "a number of weeks", PowerMac G5 upgrades are not expected during the month of February.

Steve Jobs had last announced (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030917003957.shtml) that PowerMac G5s would reach 3GHz "before the end of next summer [2004]".

BornAgainMac
Feb 16, 2004, 07:48 AM
That is fine. This means I still have the fastest Powermac G5 on the planet. I purchased it about 5 months ago.

jouster
Feb 16, 2004, 07:50 AM
Yikes!

Stand by for massive flaming of our favorite computer co.!

"I NEED a new PowerMac NOW WTF" etc etc....


Hey, what's another couple of weeks?

iGav
Feb 16, 2004, 07:53 AM
They'll be due in early March will they not?? 6 months is usually a good guide for an update, and since the G5 didn't actually start shipping till early Sept, March is around the update window...

It just seems like a long time since they were updated as they were initially announced in June, but they didn't actually ship till months later.

I personally was hoping that we'd see more frequents updates, every 3-4 months, but then you'd get the folks winjin' about only having the 'best' machine for 3 months etc etc :eek: :rolleyes: :p

Macmaniac
Feb 16, 2004, 07:53 AM
They really do need an update in between 2-3ghz, if they don't update until summer that will have been a year, and that will piss a lot of people off! We know IBM can churn these things out fast so update them as frequently as possible!

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 16, 2004, 08:04 AM
Still think March will be the time. History shows thats when those new products are shipping so nothing new except not announcing it.
What i find interesting was the article of Europe's Mac publications being as light as a feather. Our own magazines are getting pretty light. this is a direct reflection of Marketshare. Face it for every 100 computers sold maybe 3 are Macs. How long will it take for Apple to get back into the consumer computer market?

neonart
Feb 16, 2004, 08:05 AM
I say that they are announced tommorow with shipping in March. Or I will eat my left elbow.

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 16, 2004, 08:10 AM
you must be related to neatgekko:D

hayesk
Feb 16, 2004, 08:12 AM
Fine by me, I'm waiting for iBook and PowerBook updates. I wonder if ThinkSecret's crystal ball has any info on that?

Ambrose Chapel
Feb 16, 2004, 08:15 AM
a 2.5GHz update in early march and then the 3GHz update in early september seems reasonable enough, and fits the 6 month product life-cycle and steve's proclamation.

tazznb
Feb 16, 2004, 08:18 AM
As long as they are @ 3Ghz on time (especially since Steve NEVER PROMISED incremental updates in between!) I'm okay.

fussball
Feb 16, 2004, 08:30 AM
They would need more updates than just a processor bump, right? Maybe apple is still waiting on other technologies for the G5...

mgargan1
Feb 16, 2004, 08:30 AM
I doubting more and more that they're going to live up to their promise of 3GHz, but what do i know... they could pull one out of their sleeves. Good luck...

takao
Feb 16, 2004, 08:31 AM
hm yeah i think too that this 3ghz promise is more important than small speed increases now
having dual 3ghz powermacs available would make intel look bad even if they are at 4ghz (which i don't think that is possible so fast)
i think with the realese of the 3ghz g5 they will use their media presence for speed bumps on their consumers modells like imac,emac,etc
like a 'whole' upgrade 'at once'

invaLPsion
Feb 16, 2004, 08:32 AM
Why is it that the most accurate rumor site always has to come out with rumors saying that the powermacs won't come out?:p

Some_Big_Spoon
Feb 16, 2004, 08:32 AM
"How long will it take for Apple to get back into the consumer computer market?"

When they release fairly priced computers on a frequent & regular schedule.. :rolleyes:

whookam
Feb 16, 2004, 08:36 AM
poo

Some_Big_Spoon
Feb 16, 2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by takao
hm yeah i think too that this 3ghz promise is more important than small speed increases now
having dual 3ghz powermacs available would make intel look bad even if they are at 4ghz (which i don't think that is possible so fast)
i think with the realese of the 3ghz g5 they will use their media presence for speed bumps on their consumers modells like imac,emac,etc
like a 'whole' upgrade 'at once'

So until then we sit around with our thumbs up our butts and a powerbook setting our lap on fire.. fun. :rolleyes:

invaLPsion
Feb 16, 2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
"How long will it take for Apple to get back into the consumer computer market?"

When they release fairly priced computers on a frequent & regular schedule.. :rolleyes:

Too true....:(

Mr. Anderson
Feb 16, 2004, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by neonart
I say that they are announced tommorow with shipping in March. Or I will eat my left elbow.

you want some hot sauce for you elbow....:D :p

I can't believe its taking so long, and I'm with iGav that I was hoping to see more frequent updates.....

Time to dig out one of my first 'tars I made back in 2002.....

D

Mr. Anderson
Feb 16, 2004, 08:38 AM
damn, here's the file

cr2sh
Feb 16, 2004, 08:54 AM
I say we'll see them by the end of the month. It's great time for an update considering we'll get another in August.

Foxer
Feb 16, 2004, 09:00 AM
I was thinking about this the other day, and this seems to fit in this topic. Perhaps Apple has learned from past mistakes. Last year, new PowerMac G4's (the dual 1.42) were announced in January, but didn't ship until mid-March. I assume resulted in a downward pressure on demand of the PowerMacs then in stock. Same with PowerBooks, early annoncement and delayed shipping (for the 17-inch, plus the interminable wait for alu 15 inch). More dramatically, when the G5's were announced, several months passed before they were available, during which time I am sure that G4 PowerMac's sold about as well as used underwear.

So has Apple learned from this? Maybe they decided that they could announce PowerMac updates in January and ship in March (and reduce sales of existing machines), or just wait and announce in March when they are ready to roll.

Just a thought.

.a
Feb 16, 2004, 09:00 AM
is it possible that they announce a new powermac g5, imac g5, powerbook g5 all at once? the year of the g5!

or what are they doing with those imacs? 1.25 ghz g4 looks kind of "not that much mhz" :)

long lives the mhz-myth ...
.a

Mr. Anderson
Feb 16, 2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Foxer
So has Apple learned from this? Maybe they decided that they could announce PowerMac updates in January and ship in March (and reduce sales of existing machines), or just wait and announce in March when they are ready to roll.

If that is the case, then good for them... announcing new machines months before they're ready isn't good marketing :D

But I also think its to focus on the iPod, mini iPod, ITMS and iTunes. That was the big push in January, February - why muddy the waters with another push for new hardware.

D

Awimoway
Feb 16, 2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by neonart
I say that they are announced tommorow with shipping in March. Or I will eat my left elbow.

You better reach for a little KC Masterpiece to help it go down better...

Without an event, Apple doesn't announce products that aren't shipping immediately. And modest speed bumps in the PowerMac line would not warrant an event.

manu chao
Feb 16, 2004, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
When they release fairly priced computers on a frequent & regular schedule.. :rolleyes:

Some highlights from Intel's frequent & regular update schedule:
- August 2002: P4 2.8 Ghz, 533 Mhz FSB
- November 2002: P4 3.06 Ghz w/ HT
- April 2003: P4 3.0 Ghz, 800 Mhz FSB
- June 2003: P4 3.2 GHz
- February 2004: P4 3.4Ghz

I know I'm forgetting the Xeon, but the list would look similar for it, and the Extreme Edition is something inbetween.

varmit
Feb 16, 2004, 09:27 AM
Apple had a tough time keeping up with all the orders last time, they don't want to be in that possition again. Especially with a bum in the PowerMacs, iMac possible with a G5, and the PBs also getting the G5 chips. That is a lot of computers recieving the same chips. All are expected this year sometime. They might have recieved the chips, but what other technology will come with them, like the hypertransport. Will the new chips utilize this or will it still be on the old one. Tests of the new chips in the machines have yet to happen since Apple just got them, even though replacement of the old chips should cause no problems, testing is always needed to insure a good product. We don't want any duds now do we. Yeah, this will take time, but I think the current G5s are super fast.

Some_Big_Spoon
Feb 16, 2004, 09:30 AM
Here's one sure to fire up the mac apologizers..

Say I work in a movie production house that's Mac based.. We get a project and get going on it.. Now, the Linux based house down the street can do the movie in half the time, makes this known, and swipes the project.. But I still have my iPod Mini! Oh Joy! :rolleyes:

I can't render with an ipod.

Do I have to send that in an e-mail to Apple every day to get them to realize that people depend on their Computers to make a living? :mad:

I know this falls on deaf ears because pink MP3 players are just so *kewl*

RichardCarletta
Feb 16, 2004, 09:32 AM
going to wait 2 or 3 weeks to see if Apple announces revision B. G5 Powermacs ? That would be the thing I would do. If everyone did that maybe there could be some real deals made on the revision A . models then .

jamsk
Feb 16, 2004, 09:33 AM
Maybe sooner, but that's my gut feeling. I hope it's sooner as I am about to buy 7 systems for a new classroom!

Some_Big_Spoon
Feb 16, 2004, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by manu chao
Some highlights from Intel's frequent & regular update schedule:
- August 2002: P4 2.8 Ghz, 533 Mhz FSB
- November 2002: P4 3.06 Ghz w/ HT
- April 2003: P4 3.0 Ghz, 800 Mhz FSB
- June 2003: P4 3.2 GHz
- February 2004: P4 3.4Ghz

I know I'm forgetting the Xeon, but the list would look similar for it, and the Extreme Edition is something inbetween.

Actually: CPU/Tech Timeline (http://thetechnozone.com/events/Timeline2000.htm)

That's the year 2000 tech, and you can see the progress from there.

And I said computers, not chips.. the technology and cost comparison as a whole.

Do research.

dongmin
Feb 16, 2004, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by mgargan1
I doubting more and more that they're going to live up to their promise of 3GHz, but what do i know... they could pull one out of their sleeves. Good luck... I think Apple is still on target. There were rumors earlier that it's not the hardware but software that's holding up the updates. They're just waiting for 10.3.3 to be up to snuff. I wouldn't be surprised to see dual 2.8 ghz this time around. My guess (yes, it's optimistic):

03 sept: dual 2.0 ghz
04 mar: dual 2.8 ghz
04 sept: dual 3.4 ghz
05 febr: dual 4.0 ghz

I'm hopeful that we'll hit 4 ghz by next MWSF. We should be on par with Intel and AMD by then.

Thanatoast
Feb 16, 2004, 09:55 AM
I'm hoping (and figure) they're using the chips they're getting now to update the imacs. Possibly the pbooks and emacs as well, singles all around. The chips are still around 2Ghz, so it's not like there would be a speedbump for pmacs anyway. 3 Ghz will still be here by next school year, no worries :)

neonart
Feb 16, 2004, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by Awimoway
You better reach for a little KC Masterpiece to help it go down better...

Without an event, Apple doesn't announce products that aren't shipping immediately. And modest speed bumps in the PowerMac line would not warrant an event.

I like Tabasco on everything! ;)

In any case, I didn't mean like "delayed shipping" (months away), but more like "now shipping", (really shipping in a couple of weeks to allow them to be built.) I don't know if this sounds logical, but I want to believe I can order my G5 this week.

If I'm wrong I will eat my left buttock with Tabasco Sauce. LOL...

Ge4-ce
Feb 16, 2004, 10:13 AM
Seems to me that a whole lot of bodyparts are gonna be eaten this week...

I also remember Steve saying: in a year, we should pass the 3 ghz barrier!

now,.. does he mean 'pass' like 3.01 Ghz, or like 3.x ghz?

Maybe assuming that developing 2.8 in march and 3.4 in September would be a cool roadmap!

there's NO better PR then saying: 'guys, we're ahead of our roadmap!

That would even have a greater impact on AMD's and Intel's fright right now..

Maybe they could have annouced 2.4 or 2.5 in january but prefered to announce 2.8 in March?

Mr. Anderson
Feb 16, 2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by dongmin
My guess (yes, it's optimistic):

03 sept: dual 2.0 ghz
04 mar: dual 2.8 ghz
04 sept: dual 3.4 ghz
05 febr: dual 4.0 ghz


4.0 GHz? That's a more than a little optimistic. We probably won't see those speeds till we see the G6 (Power5 derivative chip at 65 nm die)

D

blvdeast
Feb 16, 2004, 10:29 AM
The power macs right now are at $1,799, $2,499, $2,999. If they release one now, are you going to pay seems like $1,999-$2,000 for an entry model? We have to wait until this model saturates, price goes down so the new ones can take over this price point. I say they update the imacs, powerbooks by march, ibook and emacs by beginning of the summer, and either release the new power macs by summer or november. I know most wont like my idea, but it makes sure everything is updated, and will allow price drops, which is what apple needs. Sure apple can have a 3Ghz G5 power mac out, but it will cost a lot and most likely only vetern mac users and pros will buy it. Meanwhile Intel has their 4Ghz for less then $1,500.

paulypants
Feb 16, 2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Here's one sure to fire up the mac apologizers..

Say I work in a movie production house that's Mac based.. We get a project and get going on it.. Now, the Linux based house down the street can do the movie in half the time, makes this known, and swipes the project.. But I still have my iPod Mini! Oh Joy! :rolleyes:

I can't render with an ipod.


OMG you're right!!
I'm switching all the macs in the
studio to linux machines because
they are running at 4 or 5 ghz and
can...wait..uh they're not--and i have
yet to see one design house that
has a linux machine within a hundred
yards of it

I am sick of all the iPod stuff too, but
I am not convinced yet that apple has
or will abandon the mac to focus on
iPods--until this happens I don't see
design firms running to linux (or windows
for that matter) in droves

FriarTuck
Feb 16, 2004, 10:29 AM
Put me on the "take your time, do it right, get enough on supply to fill orders" side of the ledger.

And I really think judging the health of the Mac market by magazine pages is barely above guesswork. There has been consolidation in the reseller market, all magazine ads have been down for a while, etc.

And the tremendous online Mac community makes dead tree publications a risky bet anyway.

ionas
Feb 16, 2004, 10:37 AM
I say I eat....

(if there isnt a powermac release with a g5 between 2 and 3ghz within te next 3 month I say we ll see a direct jump from 2 to 3ghz in september)

... my mouth, teeth and throat,
if i am wrong here ;p

(now that is going to be really hard!)

Some_Big_Spoon
Feb 16, 2004, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by paulypants
OMG you're right!!
I'm switching all the macs in the
studio to linux machines because
they are running at 4 or 5 ghz and
can...wait..uh they're not--and i have
yet to see one design house that
has a linux machine within a hundred
yards of it

I am sick of all the iPod stuff too, but
I am not convinced yet that apple has
or will abandon the mac to focus on
iPods--until this happens I don't see
design firms running to linux (or windows
for that matter) in droves

Said Movie, not design. Difference.

Furthermore: ILM, Dreamworks, Disney, Digital Domain, Pixar...

ionas
Feb 16, 2004, 10:41 AM
i would be so pissed if i ordered a G5 in april and it wasnt shipped until september when they will announce 3ghz.

i ll make clear if i can cancle my order any time that is over the normal shipping time that will be told to me.

tibor
Feb 16, 2004, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by RichardCarletta
going to wait 2 or 3 weeks to see if Apple announces revision B. G5 Powermacs ? That would be the thing I would do. If everyone did that maybe there could be some real deals made on the revision A . models then .

I have BEEN waiting since MWSF for the new powermacs. It makes sense to me that they're just around the corner because:

- 10.3.3. was seeded (then pulled) and is supposed to be required for the rev B powermacs

- Apple admitted in their last conference call that earnings were down because of slow powermac sales. You don't speed up sales by waiting until summer 04 to release faster models.

I don't really need that much speed. But the price/performace disparity is so great right now across the mac line that it seems silly to buy anything else if you don't need mobility. Because Apple has waiting soooooooo long to release the rev Bs, I just may wait for the G5 imac's release. That can't be far off, either.

My $0.02.

u2mr2os2
Feb 16, 2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by manu chao
Some highlights from Intel's frequent & regular update schedule:
- August 2002: P4 2.8 Ghz, 533 Mhz FSB
- November 2002: P4 3.06 Ghz w/ HT
- April 2003: P4 3.0 Ghz, 800 Mhz FSB
- June 2003: P4 3.2 GHz
- February 2004: P4 3.4Ghz

A quick projection of that trend shows Intel only reaching 3.6 GHz by Sept 2004 and 4GHZ not until a year after that. However, linear projections only get you so far, but Intel doesn't seem to be on Moore's curve much lately.

ionas
Feb 16, 2004, 10:44 AM
apple recieved lots of samples, maybe even last year.

i would not wonder if they get the first 65nm or 90nm 3ghz samples right now

Some_Big_Spoon
Feb 16, 2004, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by ionas
apple recieved lots of samples, maybe even last year.

i would not wonder if they get the first 65nm or 90nm 3ghz samples right now

Where's your source? Link? Article? Back this up.

I'll believe it when it's for sale.:rolleyes:

ionas
Feb 16, 2004, 10:55 AM
but you know apple got some 970s that run dual in a 1U server rack.

so it must be possible to run them at 2.5 ghz in the pm g5 tower as well.

from this point of view the rest is unimportant, apple has the possibliity to put up a new product;

the question in fact is to me

1. are they filling up they stock with new machines so that they can deliver faster and clearing up they "old" g5s?

2. are they implementing any futher technologies?

3. do they want to launch PowerBook and iMac/eMac upgrades first?

4. do they want to launch iMac/eMac/PowerBook and G5 at the same time? or at least PB and PM updates?

to me the G5 Rev. B must be ready now already - at apple internally.

ionas
Feb 16, 2004, 10:57 AM
Think Secret: "IBM just announced its faster 90nm PowerPC 970FX last week, but Apple has had the chips for a number of weeks, sources said. Around Macworld SF, sources projected that the chips would show up in faster G5s sometime in the first two months of 2004, but sources now say not to expect any G5 changes during the month of February. While Apple's product announcement dates are often subject to change, sources believe this accurately represents the company's current plans."

as i said - they got samples for quite a time now...

manu chao
Feb 16, 2004, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Actually: CPU/Tech Timeline (http://thetechnozone.com/events/Timeline2000.htm)

That's the year 2000 tech, and you can see the progress from there.

And I said computers, not chips.. the technology and cost comparison as a whole.

Do research.

Hey, I said a few highlights, just wanted to remind everybody how much speedbumps there were from Intel over last 18 months (incl. FSB).

BTW, I got my info from www.macinfo.de.

And other things like PCI, Firewire, USB, graphic cards progress in a much more platform independant way.

michaelal
Feb 16, 2004, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
"How long will it take for Apple to get back into the consumer computer market?"

When they release fairly priced computers on a frequent & regular schedule.. :rolleyes: :

:mad: I totally agree. I said it earlier, I believe Apple is arrogant and does not care enough about their customers to win back market share. The IPod is a great device and it makes a lot of money for Apple, but the IPod is not a computer, obviously, and doesn't help you or I who want bigger and better computers, not just toys. It only makes me mad because I am resisting with every bone in my body to switch to the PC world. I am frustrated by Apple and have been watching this for years. I thought with the introduction of the G5, Apple might be getting more aggressive about computers, but it appears that really only care about their profits, not whether they can produce a really great computer. I know this is true in the PC world. I expect it there. But with Apple charging so much for there computers, they really need to put out a great product. If I only wanted a so-so computer, I could purchase a reasonable good one from Dell for $500.

Mac Dummy
Feb 16, 2004, 11:03 AM
I'm not really waiting for a faster Powermac. I'm just waiting for the dual 2Ghz to drop in price a bit.:) Hope Apple drops the 1.6Ghz G5 from the lineup and makes the dual 1.8Ghz the low end G5 and dual 2.0 Ghz the middle weight machine.:D

I almost forgot for $2799, you can buy a dual 2.0 Ghz G5 from Virgina Tech's Supercomputer, I heard they where phasing them out.

Here is the article, what I understand is that MacMall is selling them with 1Gb of RAM.

http://www.macminute.com/2004/02/12/macmall

Or you can go directly to the source.

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/promotions/custom.asp?p=supercomputer

Mr. Toast
Feb 16, 2004, 11:08 AM
I've got 0 inside info, but here's what I think is going to happen.

Come Macworld Boston next July, the PM will still be at 1.6, D1.8, and D2.0. Jobs gets up on stage and says his "and one more thing...." line, and then goes on to talk about how they had promised a 3.0GHz G5 by a year after the introduction of the original G5.

"Introducing the PowerMac G5 Dual 3.5GHz."

Consider it prophesied.

hayesk
Feb 16, 2004, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Here's one sure to fire up the mac apologizers..

Say I work in a movie production house that's Mac based.. We get a project and get going on it.. Now, the Linux based house down the street can do the movie in half the time, makes this known, and swipes the project.. But I still have my iPod Mini! Oh Joy! :rolleyes:


If you get a project and get going on it, then you've already signed a contract, so it can't just be "swiped."

Do you actually think a studio just walks in your door with a disk and says "produce this"? The bulk of the time is discussing, planning, and implementing. Rendering is not necessarily the biggest factor.

Movie production requires more than just simple speed. People do movie production and deal with computer interfaces tweaking, setting, editing, drawing, etc. A couple of 4GHz machines aren't going to cut down very much time if the users are futzing about in primitive Linux tools. Not only that, you are equating rendering time to processor speed. Nevermind that the RAM and disk buses are slower (or the same speed) than the PowerMac G5s.

pbrennen
Feb 16, 2004, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by michaelal
:

:mad: I totally agree. I said it earlier, I believe Apple is arrogant and does not care enough about their customers to win back market share. You do realize that you, and almost everyone posting here, is a zealot, right? To care about zealots would be a major blunder. Remember the difference between loyalty and zealotry.

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 16, 2004, 11:29 AM
I have asked this a bunch of times but ill ask it again, what is going to dictate what Apple can do with the 970fx is HOW MANY CAN IBM MAKE PER QTR? If Apple only has x amount of chips its not likely they will be going into all these products. In fact if production is low we might not even see a G5 powerbook or Imac because they will all be in the Xserves and Powermacs. anyone care to answer this?

Some_Big_Spoon
Feb 16, 2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
I have asked this a bunch of times but ill ask it again, what is going to dictate what Apple can do with the 970fx is HOW MANY CAN IBM MAKE PER QTR? If Apple only has x amount of chips its not likely they will be going into all these products. In fact if production is low we might not even see a G5 powerbook or Imac because they will all be in the Xserves and Powermacs. anyone care to answer this?

We don't know, Arn doesn't know, ThinkSecret doesn't know.. only one's who know are IBM, and possibly Apple. The OEM suppliers may catch wind a wee bit before release.. Other than that, no one knows a thing until IBM and/or Apple say something, or a product is released.

Until then, we sit and wait, and do our best with what we have.

wdlove
Feb 16, 2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Toast
I've got 0 inside info, but here's what I think is going to happen.

Come Macworld Boston next July, the PM will still be at 1.6, D1.8, and D2.0. Jobs gets up on stage and says his "and one more thing...." line, and then goes on to talk about how they had promised a 3.0GHz G5 by a year after the introduction of the original G5.

"Introducing the PowerMac G5 Dual 3.5GHz."

Consider it prophesied.

From you lips Mr. Toast. That certainly would fulfill two dreams for me. How much I want to see Steve back here in Boston after a 5 year drought. I think he'd be impressed by the Big Dig nightmare is over and the new convention center. It's about time that Apple & IDG patch up their differences.

That Rev. B Mac would soon after be on my desk.
:)

trilogic
Feb 16, 2004, 11:41 AM
I already have a Dual G5 therefor I don't care about new ones. I want a new cinemadisplay in G5 look. :mad: NOW

Am i beeing selfish? sorry
wrong thread? sorry
:p

JW Pepper
Feb 16, 2004, 11:52 AM

ZildjianKX
Feb 16, 2004, 12:37 PM
If the top of the line gets bumped to a DP 2.5 GHz G5 (probably a 2.4 GHz due to the clock), ready to hear TONS of people whine that they just bought a DP 2.0 GHz G5 and now their computer dropped in price by $1500?

This shouldn't be a minor speed bump, but a major one if in fact what Steve said is true... if that is the case macs could really start losing some of their resale value.

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 16, 2004, 12:43 PM
I hope something like this happens, i remember the top of the line DA 733 was about 3 grand or more and then they introduced Quicksilver 733 and the base unit was $1699. apple did remove the l3 but still the machine became almost 1500 bucks cheaper. Still think Quicksilver was one of the best machines Apple made.

neilw
Feb 16, 2004, 01:01 PM
If the top of the line gets bumped to a DP 2.5 GHz G5 (probably a 2.4 GHz due to the clock), ready to hear TONS of people whine that they just bought a DP 2.0 GHz G5 and now their computer dropped in price by $1500?

I've never understood this particular complaint, except to simply categorize it as a whine and be done with it. There's always going to be someone who buys just before an update, and gets "screwed" like that. If you buy a Mac several months after the last upgrade, you're taking that risk. I'm baffled why people are seemingly taken by surprise.

Mind you, if Apple did a better job reducing its prices between major updates, it wouldn't be as big an issue. But their MO is well understood now, and it is what it is.

As for the new processors, I'll be shocked if Apple makes the jump to 3GHz in one shot. Something with the top end in the 2.4 - 2.6 range, introduced in March, seems so much more likely.

What is more interesting to me is how they handle the bottom of the line. Stay with a crippled single processor, or upgrade the low-end some more to keep some space above new G5 iMacs and/or mini-Tower?

My dream scenario is PowerMacs all dual, 2 GHz and up, with iMacs and new miniTower up to 2 GHz single (maybe even with G4 as super-cheap low end.) That's probably not realistic, but I can dream. It would be a product line that really makes sense, whereas the current one doesn't, at least to me.

Segmac
Feb 16, 2004, 01:05 PM
I have been watching the Apple Store sale page for some time now and they seem to clear out their inventory BEFORE they update a product line.
This purely unscientific method has led me to believe that updates to several lines ARE likely soon.

I am not willing to eat body parts (mine or anyone elses) based on this info, but for me its enough to get my hopes back up.

The sale page no longer has any refurb G4/G5, only one emac, and only one G5. No cinema displays of any size are listed now. They do have a good deal of powerbooks left and xserves. But the iBook selection is small too. This page seems to be updated from last week.

If Apple still keeps only 24hrs of inventory on hand then the Sale page could been a good inicator of what they are clearing out.

ITR 81
Feb 16, 2004, 01:21 PM
Maybe SJ will just jump directly to 3Ghz then do a 2.5Ghz. I'm willing to wait till summer for a 3Ghz.

Jonnod III
Feb 16, 2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by neilw


I've never understood this particular complaint, except to simply categorize it as a whine and be done with it. There's always going to be someone who buys just before an update, and gets "screwed" like that. If you buy a Mac several months after the last upgrade, you're taking that risk. I'm baffled why people are seemingly taken by surprise.

Mind you, if Apple did a better job reducing its prices between major updates, it wouldn't be as big an issue. But their MO is well understood now, and it is what it is. [/B]

Yeah, well, I used to agree with you on this - but I ordered a G5 Dual on 12th December. It shipped (Apple UK) on Friday. May arrive this week - though I don't really understand why TNT Holland handles a delivery from southern Ireland to the West of England...

I have a 23" Cinema in the order too... Apple UK can't give me a decent reason and won't discuss 'compensation' until the order is delivered. Perhaps they think that when I get the lovely G5 box I'll melt, forget the delay and not ask for any.

This is what will piss me, my order takes over 10 weeks or so - and just after it is delivered a speed bump for the G5 is announced, and a new form factor for the 23" LCD. I ordered the fastest Mac available on 12th Dec last year, that's what I wanted. If it had been delivered just after Xmas, I wouldn't have a gripe - that's life.

Anyway - here's hoping that there are no speed bumps on the G5s until July. :D

johnpaul191
Feb 16, 2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by tibor
- 10.3.3. was seeded (then pulled) and is supposed to be required for the rev B powermacs
My $0.02.


i question this rumor.... in the past Apple has shipped new powermacs with a version of the OS not yet available for the public, and it ends up being a different build then the rest of us would download. it may still be called 10.3.3 but it might not be the same 10.3.3 we download at home.

i'm not sure that's the good way to do it, but they have done it in the past. that makes me think there is something more going on than a rumored 20inch iMac bug holding back revised G5 powermacs.

on a positive note, it seems there are less refurb G5s around than a few weeks ago. hopefully we can see that as a sign they are clearing inventory, at least till those 1,100 2x2GHz G5s from VT start getting sold off.

johnpaul191
Feb 16, 2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
We don't know, Arn doesn't know, ThinkSecret doesn't know.. only one's who know are IBM, and possibly Apple. The OEM suppliers may catch wind a wee bit before release.. Other than that, no one knows a thing until IBM and/or Apple say something, or a product is released.

Until then, we sit and wait, and do our best with what we have.


remember a few months ago there were stories about IBM having issues working out the kinks in the new CPU plant (where they make the 970s). has there been anything to point to them getting up to speed? i would assume it's all happy now, but ...... well?

Jonnod III
Feb 16, 2004, 01:31 PM
Oh, I nearly forgot - Apple made two unauthorised debits from my bank account at the end of January - lucky I check my statements.

It's just as well I'm an Apple fan.....

jcdenton
Feb 16, 2004, 01:49 PM
A school in my town has just run into some confusion during the order of some 1.6 GHz G5 machines and the district Apple's rep is presently telling them they will be getting 1.8 GHz machines instead.

Not sure what that means -- it could just be an apology for the two weeks' screwup in ordering, or it could be that the Apple education channel in town here doens't have a lot of G5s around.

Has anyone else ordered a 1.6 GHz recently? (If they have and it has gone through without these complications, then the local problem could be unrelated to upgrade schedules).

hose this!
Feb 16, 2004, 02:04 PM
I don't even really care about the PowerMac. What's making me full of vinegar right now is the idea that Apple is witholding Cinema Display updates to coincide with a PowerMac update. I mean c'mon, how old are they already? And still running USB 1.1!

Just reminds of the how the 1st gen AluBooks came with USB 1.1, nearly a year(?) after many PC Books had adopted USB 2.0 as standard. You can talk all you want about good design and good interface etc. The tech specs still have to keep up.

Parikh1234
Feb 16, 2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by hose this!
I don't even really care about the PowerMac. What's making me full of vinegar right now is the idea that Apple is witholding Cinema Display updates to coincide with a PowerMac update. I mean c'mon, how old are they already? And still running USB 1.1!

Just reminds of the how the 1st gen AluBooks came with USB 1.1, nearly a year(?) after many PC Books had adopted USB 2.0 as standard. You can talk all you want about good design and good interface etc. The tech specs still have to keep up.

USB is dead in my opinion, firewire is so much better, didnt really mind that apple didnt update usb, as long as they update firewire

Maybe SJ will just jump directly to 3Ghz then do a 2.5Ghz. I'm willing to wait till summer for a 3Ghz.

I dont remember steve promising 2.5, 2.4,2.6 powermacs or anything of that sort. He said 3.0 and nothing else. I think he meant exactely that. They are going to stay at 3 until the summer. Live with it. The way im looking at it is it just gives me more time to save up for 8 gigs of ram:D

clr900
Feb 16, 2004, 02:22 PM
I know that I will not be able to afford the highest model even when rev. B is released, but I am still waiting because maybe dual 2ghz will be entry level? Should I wait until summer when I could either get dual 2ghz very cheaper or possibly an even faster machine for the entry level price right now? This is quite a predicament you have created for me Apple...

neilw
Feb 16, 2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Jonnod III
Yeah, well, I used to agree with you on this - but I ordered a G5 Dual on 12th December. It shipped (Apple UK) on Friday. May arrive this week - though I don't really understand why TNT Holland handles a delivery from southern Ireland to the West of England...

Well, that's another matter. 9 or 10 week delivery is appalling, and I'd be pissed as well. If I had to wait a couple of months for a machine, and then they upgraded the machines a week later, that's grounds for a major complaint.

But other folks seem to feel that their purchase of any machine should prohibit Apple from upgrades for the next 3 months or so....

TranceClubMusic
Feb 16, 2004, 02:38 PM
Ah yes! Dont we all remember back in the begining of January - when TranceClubMusic was the biggest joke of the Rumor boards.........Threatened with getting banned, being to excited and of course wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off base to make a claim that in Febuary we would all see ZIPPO.
Hate to say it but told ya so :D
and according to the source here at work (no NOT an apple retail store empoyee) the rumors are correct with NO PM G5 updates in Febuary - just like I was told in January expect March.

PS - I dont claim to be a "know it all" or a "Neatgekko" but I do have "some" info as the Federal Courthouse in Miami switches to Apple and the Apple Rep for Government Supplies does have a little bit of info she likes to share when I see her around. Though she isnt privy to exact dates - she has been right on target with when items are going to be released. Lets see how she does on the G5 PM. ;)

daveL
Feb 16, 2004, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by johnpaul191
on a positive note, it seems there are less refurb G5s around than a few weeks ago. hopefully we can see that as a sign they are clearing inventory, at least till those 1,100 2x2GHz G5s from VT start getting sold off.
As mentioned in this thread and others, the VT dual G5s are already being sold. The implication, of course, is that VT is already receiving G5 Xserves to replace the PMs.

daveL
Feb 16, 2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by johnpaul191
remember a few months ago there were stories about IBM having issues working out the kinks in the new CPU plant (where they make the 970s). has there been anything to point to them getting up to speed? i would assume it's all happy now, but ...... well?
From the Infoworld article:

"The blend of the different manufacturing techniques gives IBM a unique chip that will appeal to very different customers, said Richard Doherty, research director at The Envisioneering Group. "[IBM's] manufacturing technique gives them the breadth that the chip can be a stump-pulling pickup truck or a high-mileage sports car," Doherty said. It can be used in high-performance computers like Apple's PowerMacs, or in the embedded networking equipment that helps route Internet traffic, he said.


IBM's 90nm process has also been remarkably free of the yield problems that affect most chip companies as they introduce a new process, he added."

I guess they aren't having problems, or so it would appear.

rdowns
Feb 16, 2004, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
Trance Club Music is 25 times stronger then "Bumps", 50 times more hallucinagenic then "GHB" and 69 times more explosive then "XTC"

Might want to use the proper words in your sig so it would make sense. Here's a hint, then refers to time, than is used for comparison.

Awimoway
Feb 16, 2004, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
PS - I dont claim to be a "know it all" or a "Neatgekko" but I do have "some" info as the Federal Courthouse in Miami switches to Apple and the Apple Rep for Government Supplies does have a little bit of info she likes to share when I see her around. Though she isnt privy to exact dates - she has been right on target with when items are going to be released. Lets see how she does on the G5 PM. ;)

Ah yes! Too much information.


She's fired. :eek:

TranceClubMusic
Feb 16, 2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
Might want to use the proper words in your sig so it would make sense. Here's a hint, then refers to time, than is used for comparison.

Sorry - Guess I was on all three when I wrote it :cool:

PretendPCuser
Feb 16, 2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Here's one sure to fire up the mac apologizers..

Say I work in a movie production house that's Mac based.. We get a project and get going on it.. Now, the Linux based house down the street can do the movie in half the time, makes this known, and swipes the project.. But I still have my iPod Mini! Oh Joy! :rolleyes:

I can't render with an ipod.

No my brotha/sista,

Here's what ya do: jack the price, take the job, farm it out to the Linux house, look like a hero when you are done in half the time and get a big bonus. Oh, and in the meantime be working on a different project and get mo money, mo money, MO MONEY!

Now go buy yerself a pink Mini-iPod! :rolleyes:

ZildjianKX
Feb 16, 2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by neilw
Well, that's another matter. 9 or 10 week delivery is appalling, and I'd be pissed as well. If I had to wait a couple of months for a machine, and then they upgraded the machines a week later, that's grounds for a major complaint.

But other folks seem to feel that their purchase of any machine should prohibit Apple from upgrades for the next 3 months or so....

Hey, this is exactly what happened back when the G5s were first introduced. I ordered a DP 2.0 GHz G5 and the wait was so horrible that I downgraded to a SP 1.8 just so I could have my computer by the time my school started in October. Not long after I got my SP, it was phased out...

ultrafiel
Feb 16, 2004, 05:34 PM
Well I'm one of those people waiting to buy. I'd like a new G5 (probably mid, unless the low end is dual), but waiting a few more weeks gives me another paycheck or two to help cover the cost. I just hope more than just the processor is updated. Nothing major of course, but new options in Video cards would be cool, and lower prices on Harddrives would also be nice.

Also, maybe this is dumb, but is there a difference between PCI-X and PCI Express? Are they the same? I just keep hearing about how PCI Express is coming out and will be so cool, yadda, yadda... I thought PCI-X was that though, someone clue me in on that info. Thanks.

TranceClubMusic
Feb 16, 2004, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by ultrafiel
Also, maybe this is dumb, but is there a difference between PCI-X and PCI Express? Are they the same? I just keep hearing about how PCI Express is coming out and will be so cool, yadda, yadda... I thought PCI-X was that though, someone clue me in on that info. Thanks.

I was confused at one time as well.
PCI-X is basically a "faster" PCI Slot. Manufacturers of many different devices that "plug" into the PCI Slots (for example, Network Cards, Wireless Cards and even low end video cards) will now have a faster BUS to the System Board.

From what I heard PCI-Express is going to replace the AGP Slot on the system board. It will have 16X vs the 8x of an AGP Video Card.

daveL
Feb 16, 2004, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
I was confused at one time as well.
PCI-X is basically a "faster" PCI Slot. Manufacturers of many different devices that "plug" into the PCI Slots (for example, Network Cards, Wireless Cards and even low end video cards) will now have a faster BUS to the System Board.

From what I heard PCI-Express is going to replace the AGP Slot on the system board. It will have 16X vs the 8x of an AGP Video Card.
Actually, PCI-X is simply a faster version of the existing PCI bus, while PCI-Express is the next generation of peripheral bus. If it replaces AGP, it's because AGP will no longer be necessary due to the high bandwidth available in PCI-Express.

I'm sure someone will correct me (please) if I'm wrong.

TranceClubMusic
Feb 16, 2004, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by daveL
Actually, PCI-X is simply a faster version of the existing PCI bus, while PCI-Express is the next generation of peripheral bus. If it replaces AGP, it's because AGP will no longer be necessary due to the high bandwidth available in PCI-Express.

I'm sure someone will correct me (please) if I'm wrong.


Ummmmmmmmmm - Isnt that what I just said? :confused:

paulypants
Feb 16, 2004, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
Said Movie, not design. Difference.

Furthermore: ILM, Dreamworks, Disney, Digital Domain, Pixar...

noted--but not much of a difference--
movie studios aren't using FCP or
shake on linux boxes as far as i know

paulypants
Feb 16, 2004, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
Sorry - Guess I was on all three when I wrote it :cool:

lol--got any for the rest of us while we
wait for new macs?

fatchuck
Feb 16, 2004, 08:08 PM
Apple's move to higher-speed G5s are of critical importance to me. Right now I'm running an AMD Athlon 650 with Window2s 2K Pro, and while it's been a terrific computer since early 2000, it's time to replace it as my main PC.

If Apple comes out with a PowerMac at 3.0 ghz by autumn 2004, it likely means I'll be able to get a single-processor 2.0ghz G5 for about $1800 then. However, if Apple dawdles, I've been seriously looking into Xandros Linux running on an AMD64 at 3.4ghz for under $1000.

My next PC will be 64-bits, no $ to Microsoft, and ready to roll for 4 years. While the Mac is much better from a UI and hardware integration perspective, Xandros offers Windows app compatibility through Codeweaver (no $ to MS), much less $ for a ground-level machine and support for the GNU/Linux movement.

I'm not trolling, just sharing some thoughts on the decision about moving to the 64-bit world.

iHack
Feb 16, 2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by fatchuck
Apple's move to higher-speed G5s are of critical importance to me. Right now I'm running an AMD Athlon 650 with Window2s 2K Pro, and while it's been a terrific computer since early 2000, it's time to replace it as my main PC.


hey, any powermac you buy will blow that Athlon out of the water. Don't wait and spend just for bragging rights. You'll be happy with a DP 2.0 GHz for years to come.

(snip)... and support for the GNU/Linux movement.


Actually, I'm running a fair amount of GNU/Linux app's on my iMac. Only very rarely do linux programs not compile, either through fink (http://fink.sourceforge.net) or directly from source. I especially like octave (http://www.octave.org), almost perfectly matlab compatible. Downside is that it was busy overnight compiling, but it works beautifully. GRASS GIS also saved me from investing some $ 20,000 in ArcView software...
This stuff is very awkward on Windows and another reason for me to be very happy with my iMac!

M.

PS. I use Octave for mathimatical modelling. Anyways, if you don't know already what matlab is, you most probably don't need to know.

Roller
Feb 16, 2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Toast
I've got 0 inside info, but here's what I think is going to happen.

Come Macworld Boston next July, the PM will still be at 1.6, D1.8, and D2.0. Jobs gets up on stage and says his "and one more thing...." line, and then goes on to talk about how they had promised a 3.0GHz G5 by a year after the introduction of the original G5.

"Introducing the PowerMac G5 Dual 3.5GHz."

Consider it prophesied.

The chance of SJ getting up on stage at MW Boston 2004 and saying anything is about the same as the chance of Apple announcing a $500 dual 5 GHz Mac by next summer. WWDC? That's a different story, although I think that dual 3.5 GHz is a tad optimistic.

daveL
Feb 16, 2004, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
Ummmmmmmmmm - Isnt that what I just said? :confused:
On the first part, PCI-X, yes, that's what you said. However, PCI-Express isn't intended only to "replace the AGP slot", which is how your sentence read, to me. "Replace the AGP slot" did not say anything to indicate that PCI-Express is a next-generation update of PCI. Anyway, no big deal.

DrGruv1
Feb 16, 2004, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
I hope something like this happens, i remember the top of the line DA 733 was about 3 grand or more and then they introduced Quicksilver 733 and the base unit was $1699. apple did remove the l3 but still the machine became almost 1500 bucks cheaper. Still think Quicksilver was one of the best machines Apple made.

I bought the 733 2002 QS, still my only comp. Lookin' for the g6 3.0Ghz in summer.
-mike

form
Feb 16, 2004, 10:31 PM
3ghz in or by July? Not gonna happen. Stretching the truth is what Steve, and many other good salespersons, do in order to stimulate interest and promote positive feelings about what they sell to other people. Is it common? Yeah. Is it just, fair, right, moral? No. Is it good business in our modern society? Only for them.

aswitcher
Feb 16, 2004, 11:45 PM
I know the G5 can access up to 16GB of RAM. Why didn't they build a box capable of that? Is there almost no demand for so much RAM?

groovebuster
Feb 17, 2004, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by DrGruv1
I bought the 733 2002 QS, still my only comp.

The Quicksilver 733 was a piece of ****. I own one myself. Because of the missing L3 Cache that thing was really slooooooow, especially the OS or when you did Multitasking.

Since I put a Sonnet 1.2GHz processor upgrade it is finally usable. On some tasks it gained about 300% (or more) of speed, overall it is about 2 times faster!

Like that it will last me at least another 2, 3 or even 4 years as a secondary system.

groovebuster

groovebuster
Feb 17, 2004, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by Parikh1234
USB is dead in my opinion, firewire is so much better, didnt really mind that apple didnt update usb, as long as they update firewire

USB is dead? You gotta be kidding me! The whole PC world is using USB (also 2.0). You hardly find a PC with a FireWire port.

Of course FireWire is better for high bandwidth peripherals, but in most cases it is the marketing that decides which technology becomes a standard.

Just compare the prices between external HD cases with USB or FireWire port. FireWire is always more expensive. And that's (besides the licensing fees) because higher volume means lower prices. Most people care about the price and so they take USB, since for Joe Six-Pack it doesn't make a difference if he's using USB or FireWire.

Also the USB support these days is already a standard feature on Intel chip sets that a lot of motherboard manufacturers are using. No additional fees, it is just there. Why putting an extra FireWire chip on the board, that costs extra money and actually is not demanded by most customers, because they only have USB periperals anyway...

I could go on and on and on...

I think that FireWire is dead on the long run and it will become a propietary standard for Mac users who are willing to spend 30$ more just to use their FireWire port with some gadget. Less and less manufacturers will even offer items with a FireWire Interface. Anybody remember the ADB or the serial port on the old Macs?

groovebuster

ph8te
Feb 17, 2004, 03:08 AM
All you people out there complaining that apple machines need to become faster, and this needs to becme faster and that needs to become faster.... blah blah blah,

First of all, Mac are RISC-based and PCs are mainly still CISC based machines. that means that a PC based machine would need so many more cycles to complete the same set of instructons as the MAC, therefore, a head-on race for Chip-frequency between MAC and PC is really idiotic, like comparing a plane, vs a ship.

Second, I use a G4 466MHz and use it for extensive Photoshop work and some DTP and Illustrator work, and although I have not had the pleasure of working with OS X yet - our company will only be upgrading towards the end of the year - I find that the operating speed between my mac and a newer model with 1 Ghz are minimal, the only time when you will notice a difference is when you are doing pure processing work, like applying filters or rendering.

So, for all the speedfreaks out there unless youre into heavy 3d rendering , video production or other intensive processor work, give Apple the time to bring out the right product, without errors, bugs or other faults. Look at how many PC-based companies go belly up because they are trying to deliver quickest without considering quality.

iHack
Feb 17, 2004, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by groovebuster
USB is dead? You gotta be kidding me! The whole PC world is using USB (also 2.0). You hardly find a PC with a FireWire port.

snip.
Most people care about the price and so they take USB, since for Joe Six-Pack it doesn't make a difference if he's using USB or FireWire.

True. He'll just buy whatever's in the gadget. In the case of e.g. digital camcorders this just happens to be firewire. Remember the cliche 'it just works'?

snip.
I think that FireWire is dead on the long run and it will become a propietary standard for Mac users who are willing to spend 30$ more just to use their FireWire port with some gadget. Less and less manufacturers will even offer items with a FireWire Interface. Anybody remember the ADB or the serial port on the old Macs?

groovebuster

You'll be hard pressed to find a new PC without firewire. And virtually all PCs still have a serial port, nothing 'proprietary standard for mac users' about that. Of course ADB is a different matter, as is ADC. ADC is a elegant solution, but hardly used nonetheless. Even my LittleAl doesn't have one.

M.

ph8te
Feb 17, 2004, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by groovebuster
I think that FireWire is dead on the long run and it will become a propietary standard for Mac users who are willing to spend 30$ more just to use their FireWire port with some gadget. Less and less manufacturers will even offer items with a FireWire Interface. Anybody remember the ADB or the serial port on the old Macs?

groovebuster

Don't say that too soon, consider SCSI, 10-12 years ago, when the PC computer-boom started, only Apple delivered machines with on-board SCSI, the PC world had to buy cards to connect their scanners or connect via their serial port. And SCSI did become an industry standard and the MACs were ahead because all macs had std SCSI chips on board, so, If Apple wants to put a firewire in their machines, let them do so, yes, firewire peripherals are more expensive, but you also get higher speeds, especially in the professional market, and the Mac is after all, still a professional machine. So, wait and see and in 2 to 3 years time all the professionals will be using firewire and Apple will have scored another coup by offering firewire as a standard.

whookam
Feb 17, 2004, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by ph8te
Second, I use a G4 466MHz and use it for extensive Photoshop work and some DTP and Illustrator work, and although I have not had the pleasure of working with OS X yet - our company will only be upgrading towards the end of the year - I find that the operating speed between my mac and a newer model with 1 Ghz are minimal, the only time when you will notice a difference is when you are doing pure processing work, like applying filters or rendering.

So, for all the speedfreaks out there unless youre into heavy 3d rendering , video production or other intensive processor work, give Apple the time to bring out the right product, without errors, bugs or other faults. Look at how many PC-based companies go belly up because they are trying to deliver quickest without considering quality.

I'd have to disagree. As the owner of a retouching studio, I always find it the best option to buy the fastest machines available. Photoshop eats memory and I could always do with more processor speed.

Slow computers = time waiting = time not working = less profit.

Until computers can process 16bit multilayered poster sized files in real time then faster is always going to be neccesary for me. Of course it still makes no sense to spend money on redundant machines when the majority are sure that new technology for the same price is just around the corner.

groovebuster
Feb 17, 2004, 03:54 AM
Originally posted by iHack
And virtually all PCs still have a serial port, nothing 'proprietary standard for mac users' about that.

The serial port on the Mac was proprietary because of it's Mini-DIN connector. All printers back then had parallel ports. To find a printer that had a serial port was a task of its own. Of course there were printers, but normally they costed more than a "standard" printer with just a parallel port. That's were I see the analogy to FireWire.

That almost all new PCs have a FireWire port I can't confirm. Some do, but the cheap consumer PCs usually don't have one and also only a few Laptops sport one. For example the IBM Desktops are USB only, as well as Dell (as the biggest player on the market).

groovebuster

Jonnod III
Feb 17, 2004, 04:17 AM
The big difference with Firewire is that it is the standard for DV connections.

That alone makes it a necessary. The other advnateages of it are just icing :)

groovebuster
Feb 17, 2004, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by ph8te
Don't say that too soon, consider SCSI, 10-12 years ago, when the PC computer-boom started, only Apple delivered machines with on-board SCSI, the PC world had to buy cards to connect their scanners or connect via their serial port. And SCSI did become an industry standard and the MACs were ahead because all macs had std SCSI chips on board, so, If Apple wants to put a firewire in their machines, let them do so, yes, firewire peripherals are more expensive, but you also get higher speeds, especially in the professional market, and the Mac is after all, still a professional machine. So, wait and see and in 2 to 3 years time all the professionals will be using firewire and Apple will have scored another coup by offering firewire as a standard.

But SCSI was always expensive and today it is only used anymore in servers. Did you check lately what a modern 36GB SCSI HD costs? It never became standard for the Joe Six-Pack in the PC world, because he just "didn't need" it and it added extra cost to his machine.

Don't get me wrong, I like FireWire a lot and use it on a daily basis, but I don't think that 2% Mac market and a few professionals who can make use of it are enough to make a difference on the long run. USB 2.0 is cheap and for 95% of the cases good enough. And that's why FireWire will remain in a niche market for professionals who are willing to spend the extra money of which reason ever. But that's not enough to keep a "standard" alive.

The only reason why a consumer would use FireWire is a MiniDV camera... for all other peripherals they will use USB. And to be true about it, I think that the market of people who actually want to edit videos on their PCs is highly overestimated. To edit a video is a lot of work and many people underestimate the hours it takes before you get your vacation video together. I know many people who tried one or two little projects and then gave it up because it is so time intense, even with tools like iMovie.

And mark my words... if USB 3.0 will have the same capabilities as FireWire and is downwards compatible with 1.0 and 2.0 all camera manufacturers will immediately switch to USB 3.0 (because of the compatibility) and abandon FireWire.

Just my 0.02 €

groovebuster

dieselg4
Feb 17, 2004, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by groovebuster
The serial port on the Mac was proprietary because of it's Mini-DIN connector. All printers back then had parallel ports. To find a printer that had a serial port was a task of its own. Of course there were printers, but normally they costed more than a "standard" printer with just a parallel port. That's were I see the analogy to FireWire.

That almost all new PCs have a FireWire port I can't confirm. Some do, but the cheap consumer PCs usually don't have one and also only a few Laptops sport one. For example the IBM Desktops are USB only, as well as Dell (as the biggest player on the market).

groovebuster

It seems almost all new laptop PC's have firewire, but its not a powered port, so you can't charge you iPod from it. I've not had the opportunity to use a PC iPod, does it come with one of thos itty-bitty FW cables?

JJTiger1
Feb 17, 2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by paulypants
{snippage}

I am sick of all the iPod stuff too,

{snippage}

iPod and iTune sales are making Apple a big pile of money, very high and very fast.

... and I too would like to see a new TV ad that does not feature only inner-city people, and only inner-city music.

Is this the iPod stereo-type? iPods are toys for inner-city people? Suburban and country folks keep out?

iPod Stereo-type: pun.:p
=-=
JJ

michaelal
Feb 17, 2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by JJTiger1
iPod and iTune sales are making Apple a big pile of money, very high and very fast.

...
JJ :

mad:

As someone said previously, "I'm sick to death of all the IPod stuff". If Apple has given up trying to be a computer innovator, that's great, just tell us so we can move on. The original Macintosh was all about innovation. Where is that spirit. We need better computing with more power, not just the same old thing. Do the IPod if you have to, so you can make even more money, but sooner or later that fad will slow down and you will be left with computers that really aren't that different from PCs and no loyal following to buy your over priced product.

paulsecic
Feb 17, 2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by BornAgainMac
That is fine. This means I still have the fastest Powermac G5 on the planet. I purchased it about 5 months ago.

I'm waiting for new Imacs. I do not know about Ipods.

john123
Feb 17, 2004, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by michaelal
you will be left with computers that really aren't that different from PCs

In a way, this has already happened to a degree. OS X, which litters your HD with invisible files and has a love for adding three letter extensions to applications and files, may have many differences from Windows but bears a much sharper resemblance to it than did OS 9 back in the day.

JJTiger1
Feb 17, 2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by michaelal
{snippage}

but sooner or later that fad will slow down
{snippage}

.. yes. It's a fad.

I still have a fully functional Sony WalkMan with Plug & Play swappable tapes.

iPod would be nice on overwater flights, rather than carry that satchel of tapes. 12 hours from LAX to Taiwan has been my longest, so far.

Thankfully, China Air upgraded me to Imperial Class, from First Class...
... you get a fully reclining seat on the upper deck of their 747's, and too much food, and too much drink, and too many movies...
... the only way to fly. :D
=-=
JJ

Hoky
Feb 17, 2004, 04:57 PM
According to the rumor site, while Apple has received PowerPC 970FX chips from IBM for "a number of weeks", PowerMac G5 upgrades are not expected during the month of February.

Well, I could not stand the waiting any more. I ordered a dual 1.8 with the Radeon Pro 9800 gfx card this morning. Best bang for the buck, as far as I can tell.

If the PowerMac revisions come down the pipe in the next few weeks, I won't be too disappointed. If the 3Ghz models are released in the summer, I will pay the piper and trade up.

And who said Apple was obligated (or even interested) in upgrading the processors in the G5 incrementally? Why shouldn't they wait until the summer to deliver the promised revision?

I would not be surprised if the PowerMac lineup stayed the way it is for another four months or so.

The delivery on my 1.8 is 1-3 days. Doesn't sound like a product shortage to me...

- Hoky

neonart
Feb 17, 2004, 05:15 PM
Crap. No Powermacs announced today as I predicted. Therefore I will now eat my left elbow with a little KC Masterpiece, and my left buttock with Tabasco sauce...

Next update from the emergency room...

Ok, seriously. I have these checks from one of my credit cards, that gives me 1.9% APR for 5 months, which is more than enough time to pay off my G5 purchase, but this offer expires March 15th. I'm hoping G5 announcements are made before this date so I can take advantage of a low APR.

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 17, 2004, 05:37 PM
Dont worry they will send you more with new dates.:D

john123
Feb 17, 2004, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Dont worry they will send you more with new dates.:D

Or, alternatively, you could start saving up AS IF you bought a PM G5 and had to make payments on it and wanted to pay more than the minimum...so that when you finally DO make the computer purchase, you'll be able to pay a substantial part of it off immediately.

I personally never carry a balance on any of my credit cards and wouldn't buy anything that would necessitate carrying a balance...but hey, different strokes for different folks.

neonart
Feb 17, 2004, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by john123
Or, alternatively, you could start saving up AS IF you bought a PM G5 and had to make payments on it and wanted to pay more than the minimum...so that when you finally DO make the computer purchase, you'll be able to pay a substantial part of it off immediately.

I personally never carry a balance on any of my credit cards and wouldn't buy anything that would necessitate carrying a balance...but hey, different strokes for different folks.

Well the thing is that most of the "payment" will be from selling my DPG4. I don't want to sell it and be without a Powermac until the updates arrive. So I put it on a card, which gives me time to transfer all data, prefs, etc. Then I sell the G4, and use that plus whatever I find under the pillows in the couch, and I'm paid off. I've done this about 6 times :) with my new Mac purchases. It usually gets paid off in 1 or 2 months.
But I agree completely- be careful with credit card debt!

invaLPsion
Feb 17, 2004, 09:19 PM
It's amazing to me. People are talking about updating to the next revision of G5 even though they already have great computers which could last them another year.

john123
Feb 17, 2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by invaLPsion
It's amazing to me. People are talking about updating to the next revision of G5 even though they already have great computers which could last them another year.

If you're in a business in which you really tax your processor(s), then faster machines creates the capability to take on additional clients. The cost of the computer(s) themselves can quickly pay for itself.

neonart
Feb 17, 2004, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by john123
If you're in a business in which you really tax your processor(s), then faster machines creates the capability to take on additional clients. The cost of the computer(s) themselves can quickly pay for itself.

Or if you really, really, want to run Raven Shield, Ghost Recon, or Halo at 1600x1200 with ALL settings (including shadows) on high, and run FSAA, etc., etc., and get no less than 30fps.

No one will pay for that except yourself, but man it'd be sweet! :)

aswitcher
Feb 17, 2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by neonart
Crap. No Powermacs announced today as I predicted. Therefore I will now eat my left elbow with a little KC Masterpiece, and my left buttock with Tabasco sauce...

Next update from the emergency room...

Ok, seriously. I have these checks from one of my credit cards, that gives me 1.9% APR for 5 months, which is more than enough time to pay off my G5 purchase, but this offer expires March 15th. I'm hoping G5 announcements are made before this date so I can take advantage of a low APR.

A lot can happen in 4 weeks... here's hoping

RichardCarletta
Feb 18, 2004, 07:40 AM
Tuesday, February 17 Next Update: 2.18

According to MacOS Rumors :

On the PowerMac update front: The outlook remains murky, but phone conversations between Toby Braun and some of our oldest Apple sources have turned up requisition orders for the new motherboards hinting at perhaps less delay than a month, but definitely more than two weeks. These figures are based on the delays we've historically seen between the first motherboard requisitions and public announcements over the past several years. Aside from an unconfirmed hint that Apple might be planning to significantly increase its standard RAM complement on its high-end PowerMac model to a cool 1GB -- double the current complement for a Dual G5 -- there isn't much else new to report. We're still digging into several interesting leads and will report back with more tomorrow.

wdlove
Feb 18, 2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by RichardCarletta
Tuesday, February 17 Next Update: 2.18

According to MacOS Rumors :

On the PowerMac update front: The outlook remains murky, but phone conversations between Toby Braun and some of our oldest Apple sources have turned up requisition orders for the new motherboards hinting at perhaps less delay than a month, but definitely more than two weeks. These figures are based on the delays we've historically seen between the first motherboard requisitions and public announcements over the past several years. Aside from an unconfirmed hint that Apple might be planning to significantly increase its standard RAM complement on its high-end PowerMac model to a cool 1GB -- double the current complement for a Dual G5 -- there isn't much else new to report. We're still digging into several interesting leads and will report back with more tomorrow.

Increased amount of standard RAM to 1GB would be a very welcome addition. The Dual G5 is what interests me the most.
Hopefully they can also still have a price increase. I hope that your interesting leads will have a satisfactory result.

rdowns
Feb 18, 2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by wdlove
Increased amount of standard RAM to 1GB would be a very welcome addition. The Dual G5 is what interests me the most.
Hopefully they can also still have a price increase. I hope that your interesting leads will have a satisfactory result.

Shipping them with 1GB of RAM would be a good move. Knowing Apple, they'll probably put 4 x 256MB sticks in it.

Jonnod III
Feb 18, 2004, 11:37 AM
A guy at the Mac show in London in October (from Apple, I think) told me why the Apple price is so high, they buy their memory every 6 months - so I guess its a bit like futures dealing, except they can't afford to get it wrong. So I bought extra memory from Crucial.
Shame I haven't got a machine to put it into yet...

invaLPsion
Feb 18, 2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Jonnod III
A guy at the Mac show in London in October (from Apple, I think) told me why the Apple price is so high, they buy their memory every 6 months - so I guess its a bit like futures dealing, except they can't afford to get it wrong. So I bought extra memory from Crucial.
Shame I haven't got a machine to put it into yet...

That's more stupid than me buying an LCD, speakers, and a sound card for a G5 that hasnt come out yet.

Jonnod III
Feb 18, 2004, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by invaLPsion
That's more stupid than me buying an LCD, speakers, and a sound card for a G5 that hasnt come out yet.

Yeah, but the memory was ordered after the G5, (well after) and arrived first by two weeks...

Apple Store tell me I should have it by Friday. We shall see. What do you want a sound card for a G5 for...?

paulsecic
Feb 18, 2004, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by michaelal
:

:mad: I totally agree. I said it earlier, I believe Apple is arrogant and does not care enough about their customers to win back market share. The IPod is a great device and it makes a lot of money for Apple, but the IPod is not a computer, obviously, and doesn't help you or I who want bigger and better computers, not just toys. It only makes me mad because I am resisting with every bone in my body to switch to the PC world. I am frustrated by Apple and have been watching this for years. I thought with the introduction of the G5, Apple might be getting more aggressive about computers, but it appears that really only care about their profits, not whether they can produce a really great computer. I know this is true in the PC world. I expect it there. But with Apple charging so much for there computers, they really need to put out a great product. If I only wanted a so-so computer, I could purchase a reasonable good one from Dell for $500.

Wndows are harder to navigate. Stick with Macs. You will be sorry. I have a Dell full of worms.

invaLPsion
Feb 18, 2004, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Jonnod III
Yeah, but the memory was ordered after the G5, (well after) and arrived first by two weeks...

Apple Store tell me I should have it by Friday. We shall see. What do you want a sound card for a G5 for...?

I am an AUDIOPHILE. I don't want measley 16 bit 44.1KHz audio! Plus, I may want to run formats that an optical input won't support, 4.1, 6.1, or 7.1 audio for example. :D :p

john123
Feb 18, 2004, 10:40 PM
As regards the buying memory every 6 months theory...I don't buy it.

It would be a pretty stupid business policy, given (a) that technology is always changing, possibly negating the need for, say, SDRAM as machines are moving to DDR-RAM, and (b) the constantly fluctuating nature of prices. The only reason to buy RAM in bulk ahead of time would be if you believed, based on speculation and research, that RAM prices were low and likely to rise.

aswitcher
Feb 18, 2004, 11:31 PM
Doesn't new RAM come out roughly every 6 months...or is that Video Ram... I recall some article about RAM improvements being cyclic, twice a year or soemthing, so maybe their is some method to their madness.

Jonnod III
Feb 19, 2004, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by john123
As regards the buying memory every 6 months theory...I don't buy it.

It would be a pretty stupid business policy, given (a) that technology is always changing, possibly negating the need for, say, SDRAM as machines are moving to DDR-RAM, and (b) the constantly fluctuating nature of prices. The only reason to buy RAM in bulk ahead of time would be if you believed, based on speculation and research, that RAM prices were low and likely to rise.

Well, the guy seemed pretty genuine to me, he was extremely helpful on other questions etc. otherwise I wouldn't have posted it here... So I don't view it as a theory. ;)

ionas
Feb 19, 2004, 03:15 AM
1. get a rev b (no scratchy sounds)
2. try creative extigy or however they are called

(extermal usb 2 sound cards)
maybe u like that - maybe you dont.

Mord
Feb 19, 2004, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
4.0 GHz? That's a more than a little optimistic. We probably won't see those speeds till we see the G6 (Power5 derivative chip at 65 nm die)

D

what the ppc 976 isent that the one thats gonna be in the xbox 2. and thats due next year

john123
Feb 19, 2004, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by Jonnod III
Well, the guy seemed pretty genuine to me, he was extremely helpful on other questions etc. otherwise I wouldn't have posted it here... So I don't view it as a theory. ;)

Then maybe he was misinformed.

C'mon, as a matter of policy, buying millions/billions of dollars of electronics only twice yearly would be galactically retarded from a business point of view.

Then again, we are talking about Apple here...

NicoMan
Feb 19, 2004, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by john123
Then maybe he was misinformed.

C'mon, as a matter of policy, buying millions/billions of dollars of electronics only twice yearly would be galactically retarded from a business point of view.

Then again, we are talking about Apple here...

Hmm, I'll have to disagree with you: for one, Apple can't afford to be dependent on their suppliers. What happens if all of a sudden Apple hasn't got any RAM left? Sorry valuable customers, the computers you have ordered are ready, but we don't have any RAM to put in them...

Second, because of the volatility of the prices of RAM, their stance might be to lock prices in by buying in advance. It doesn't necessarily mean that Apple think RAM prices are going to rise, it's just that they don't want to take any risk and leave themselves exposed to whatever fluctuation that might come.

I think the real problem is (if we are to believe this bi-annual RAM purchasing cycle) the reliability of their supplier...

RichardCarletta
Feb 19, 2004, 10:15 AM
I was curious about how many G5 units were sold last year. I am also interested in 2003 sales figures for the iMac and eMac as well . Anywhere that information might be posted ?

john123
Feb 19, 2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by NicoMan
Hmm, I'll have to disagree with you: for one, Apple can't afford to be dependent on their suppliers. What happens if all of a sudden Apple hasn't got any RAM left? Sorry valuable customers, the computers you have ordered are ready, but we don't have any RAM to put in them...

Second, because of the volatility of the prices of RAM, their stance might be to lock prices in by buying in advance. It doesn't necessarily mean that Apple think RAM prices are going to rise, it's just that they don't want to take any risk and leave themselves exposed to whatever fluctuation that might come.

I think the real problem is (if we are to believe this bi-annual RAM purchasing cycle) the reliability of their supplier...

As regards "dependency" on suppliers, every computer manufacturer does it. Rest assured that Samsung isn't going to just declare one day "we took a break from manufacturing RAM, and we'll return to work some time next year." It's not a barbershop...it's a manufacturing business. Further, if Samsung or one supplier has a hiccup in production, there are literally dozens of other alternate suppliers. Apple uses alternate suppliers ALL the time, which is why it is quite common to have 2 people with the same "model" of PowerBook when the two machines have guts inside made by different manufacturers.

Second, as regards the "risk" element...if Apple doesn't believe prices are low, then it's dumb to "lock in" those prices. A company is not like you buying lemonade from a kid on the corner. They have massive lines of credit and can take on debt. Go to the Finance section of yahoo and look up some tickers for major corporations -- you'll see that on the Balance Sheets, they all have liabilities (debts) of some sort, both long-term and short-term.

TranceClubMusic
Feb 20, 2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by daveL
On the first part, PCI-X, yes, that's what you said. However, PCI-Express isn't intended only to "replace the AGP slot", which is how your sentence read, to me. "Replace the AGP slot" did not say anything to indicate that PCI-Express is a next-generation update of PCI. Anyway, no big deal.

I disagree with your findings - read for yourself what ATI has to say: "2004 will mark the most significant update to PC architecture in the past decade. This is the year when the new PCI Express™ architecture will arrive on the market to replace the AGP and PCI standards. Already one application - HDTV video editing - requires PCI Express, and there will certainly be others in the near future, including PC gaming . Other graphics companies have cards that are compatible with PCI Express, but they are still only AGP cards that are “bridged” by a second chip to be physically compatible with PCI Express slots on the motherboard. This architecture can only work at AGP speeds, and is more vulnerable to failure, performance bottlenecks and incompatibility with software applications."

Sounds to me like PCI Express IS GOING TO CHANGE ALOT!

wdlove
Feb 21, 2004, 11:25 AM
Well now we only have one week left to see if Steve will make any announcements. That means that we have 10 more months to dream about.

daveL
Feb 21, 2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by NicoMan
Hmm, I'll have to disagree with you: for one, Apple can't afford to be dependent on their suppliers. What happens if all of a sudden Apple hasn't got any RAM left? Sorry valuable customers, the computers you have ordered are ready, but we don't have any RAM to put in them...

Second, because of the volatility of the prices of RAM, their stance might be to lock prices in by buying in advance. It doesn't necessarily mean that Apple think RAM prices are going to rise, it's just that they don't want to take any risk and leave themselves exposed to whatever fluctuation that might come.

I think the real problem is (if we are to believe this bi-annual RAM purchasing cycle) the reliability of their supplier...
Just because you put out a request for bids to a number of memory suppliers, for example, and then award one or two suppliers a 6 month contract to supply a certain volume of memory at a certain price, does not mean you take physical possession of that memory on day one of the contract. It also doesn't mean that you can't buy memory that doesn't become available until 3 months into the contract. The posts on this topic seem a bit simplistic to me.

daveL
Feb 21, 2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
I disagree with your findings - read for yourself what ATI has to say: "2004 will mark the most significant update to PC architecture in the past decade. This is the year when the new PCI Express™ architecture will arrive on the market to replace the AGP and PCI standards. Already one application - HDTV video editing - requires PCI Express, and there will certainly be others in the near future, including PC gaming . Other graphics companies have cards that are compatible with PCI Express, but they are still only AGP cards that are “bridged” by a second chip to be physically compatible with PCI Express slots on the motherboard. This architecture can only work at AGP speeds, and is more vulnerable to failure, performance bottlenecks and incompatibility with software applications."

Sounds to me like PCI Express IS GOING TO CHANGE ALOT!
Well, I guess either I can't write or you can't read, since I was trying to make the same point you are. I was posting in response to someone saying, simply, PCI Express is a replacement for AGP. I responded by saying:

"However, PCI-Express isn't intended only to "replace the AGP slot", which is how your sentence read, to me. "Replace the AGP slot" did not say anything to indicate that PCI-Express is a next-generation update of PCI. Anyway, no big deal."

This statement says: PCI Express is more than just a replacement for the AGP slot, it it the next generation of PCI. While not as dramatic as your statement, the intent was exactly the same, i.e. "PCI Express IS GOING TO CHANGE ALOT!"

TranceClubMusic
Feb 21, 2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by daveL
Well, I guess either I can't write or you can't read, since I was trying to make the same point you are. I was posting in response to someone saying, simply, PCI Express is a replacement for AGP. I responded by saying:

"However, PCI-Express isn't intended only to "replace the AGP slot", which is how your sentence read, to me. "Replace the AGP slot" did not say anything to indicate that PCI-Express is a next-generation update of PCI. Anyway, no big deal."

This statement says: PCI Express is more than just a replacement for the AGP slot, it it the next generation of PCI. While not as dramatic as your statement, the intent was exactly the same, i.e. "PCI Express IS GOING TO CHANGE ALOT!"

I want what your smoking :cool:

aswitcher
Feb 21, 2004, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by RichardCarletta
I was curious about how many G5 units were sold last year. I am also interested in 2003 sales figures for the iMac and eMac as well . Anywhere that information might be posted ?

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107357&p=irol-index

check out the Q1 04 and the 10 Q

daveL
Feb 21, 2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
I want what your smoking :cool:
I think you need what I'm smoking.:)

ionas
Feb 21, 2004, 07:03 PM
i need a PM G5 Rev. B.
i hope apple sorts out the fan problems and the shipping delay problems they had back in time.

until then i am sad. :p

TranceClubMusic
Feb 21, 2004, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by ionas
i need a PM G5 Rev. B.
i hope apple sorts out the fan problems and the shipping delay problems they had back in time.

until then i am sad. :p


God, I am in the same situation. I'm sitting on $5,000.00 and torn on how much longer too wait. Its killing me. I went to the Apple Store in Boca Raton Florida again today. Noone is buying computers only iPods. I backed out again purchasing - but the wait is getting so aggrivating. I dont know if I will make it any longer............I'm afraid once I buy - New Lower Prices and Faster Computers.............I hate this :mad:

TranceClubMusic
Feb 21, 2004, 08:09 PM
Does anyone know of ANY PCI-X (not to be confused with PCI Express) Devices? Why pay more for a technology when no one is planning on using it? Please correct me if I am wrong - but I think Apple has put another technology that no one seems to be using!? Where are these faster PCI-X Devices? What are they? Who is making them? Maybe the G5 1.6 isnt looking to bad anyways!

lewdvig
Feb 21, 2004, 10:40 PM
51 watts at 2.5GHz means 3GHz is EASY.

P4 (Northwood) dissipates 90 watts. Prescott dissipates 100+.

The only restrictor here is Apple Marketing. TRUST ME. G5 can come out at any speed south of 3GHz that Apple wants. They may opt to wait as Intel and AMD struggle - but if they were smart they would release dual 3GHz machines ASAP.

The 2GHz dualie is spanked by the P4 and murdered by the Athlon64 machines available right now. A 2.5GHz dualie might make the race closer, but a dual 3GHz model would win it and would be worth every penny of a $500 premium over the 2x2ghz available today.

They should absolutely bury the G4. Is was great in its day, but it needs to retire (you can't even play HDTV video on it - My 1.25GHz chokes on a 720p movie).

aswitcher
Feb 22, 2004, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
God, I am in the same situation. I'm sitting on $5,000.00 and torn on how much longer too wait. Its killing me. I went to the Apple Store in Boca Raton Florida again today. Noone is buying computers only iPods. I backed out again purchasing - but the wait is getting so aggrivating. I dont know if I will make it any longer............I'm afraid once I buy - New Lower Prices and Faster Computers.............I hate this :mad:

I think your right to hang off. Even if its a few months, time flies and you would be kicking yourself when the upgrades to whatever your after arrive. If you plan to kepe this machine a few years then a few more months is worth it. This is my philosophy at present, short term pain for long term pleasure :p

sedarby
Feb 22, 2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by daveL
As mentioned in this thread and others, the VT dual G5s are already being sold. The implication, of course, is that VT is already receiving G5 Xserves to replace the PMs.

Another take on this delay of Rev B PM G5s would be that Apple agreed to hold off until at least a majority of these VT PMs were sold. Think about it. Rev Bs come out and MacMall is still selling these 2 Ghz G5s for $2799?

Just something to think about.

wdlove
Feb 22, 2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by aswitcher
I think your right to hang off. Even if its a few months, time flies and you would be kicking yourself when the upgrades to whatever your after arrive. If you plan to kepe this machine a few years then a few more months is worth it. This is my philosophy at present, short term pain for long term pleasure :p

I agree that the wait will be worth our time. If the Rev. B doesn't come in March/April then it will definitely be announced by Steve at WWDC in June. I plan on being patient. My plan now is to wait until Fall, unless something major happen before that to change my mind.

On the other side of the wait issue is that if you keep waiting, you could end up waiting for ever. At some point you have to decide that you need a new PM G5. Then just bite the bullet and make a purchase.

michaelal
Feb 22, 2004, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by wdlove
I agree that the wait will be worth our time. If the Rev. B doesn't come in March/April then it will definitely be announced by Steve at WWDC in June. I plan on being patient. My plan now is to wait until Fall, unless something major happen before that to change my mind.

On the other side of the wait issue is that if you keep waiting, you could end up waiting for ever. At some point you have to decide that you need a new PM G5. Then just bite the bullet and make a purchase.

:( I haven't purchased a new computer in about 3 years or longer. I am running a G4 400 MHz. tower. I've got it maxed out as far as memory and have two big hard drives. I want more processing power. As good as this machine has been to me, trying to do video on it is a bit frustrating. I've been waiting very patiently, but June may be the furthest I can wait. Apple put down the toys and start concentrating on the real thing.

daveL
Feb 22, 2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by sedarby
Another take on this delay of Rev B PM G5s would be that Apple agreed to hold off until at least a majority of these VT PMs were sold. Think about it. Rev Bs come out and MacMall is still selling these 2 Ghz G5s for $2799?

Just something to think about.
True...

Duff-Man
Feb 22, 2004, 08:55 PM
Duff-Man says......it has been awhile since we've heard any more "predictions" from NeatGekko......heheheh.....oh yeah!

Mehmet
Feb 22, 2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by aswitcher
I know the G5 can access up to 16GB of RAM. Why didn't they build a box capable of that? Is there almost no demand for so much RAM?

Is this true?

Even if it is, they dont have 2 gig sticks of ram. only 1 gig. 1 gig x 8 = 8 gigs.

JohnnyTwoToes
Feb 24, 2004, 03:15 PM
I wish i had the source, or a link for you guys, but i recall reading somewhere that you can get 2gb strips of ram (which cost a butt-load, you can be sure of that). so 8x2...Someone please snuff this notion out quickly if it's wrong, but i'm looking for where i read it. I'll post the link asap after i find it.:confused:

clr900
Feb 24, 2004, 03:30 PM
youre quite right....
http://gear.ign.com/articles/474/474509p1.html?fromint=1

Opteron
Feb 24, 2004, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Mehmet
Is this true?

Even if it is, they dont have 2 gig sticks of ram. only 1 gig. 1 gig x 8 = 8 gigs.

Actually 2 gig sticks of RAM are avaliable from crucial
http://www.crucial.com/store/PartSpecs.asp?imodule=CT25672Y40B&cat=RAM

howerver only avaliable in REG. ECC. These sticks go very well with the AMD opteron motherboards from Tyan, that can access up to 16GB of RAM.

djbahdow01
Feb 24, 2004, 08:06 PM
Just a guess but i am thinking that Apple might do the rev B. upgrade this saturday at the new flagship store in San Fran. Considering they are knocking off 200 from the single 1.8s granted these are discontinued anyways.
So here's hoping to the updates before March. As always i have no concrete facts to back this up. I am just making an observation.
Heres to the new G5

windowsblowsass
Feb 24, 2004, 08:42 PM
allright everybody know it wont happen but wouldnt it be cool if on the last day of febuuarary when none expected it they released new g5s

TranceClubMusic
Feb 24, 2004, 08:47 PM
I'm sick and tired of waiting........this saturday I will buy a New Apple G5 Computer System. I have exactly $4,000.00
Any suggestions on the BEST way to spend that money?
I wanna get the BIGGEST bang for the buck.
I dont need software...........
I need a G5 (not sure which Model yet)
an LCD Monitor (not sure ACD or another brand)

I want the Logitech Wireless MX Duo ($100.00)
I want the Logitech THX Speakers ($150.00)

So that leaves me with $3,750.00 for a G5 and LCD Monitor.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

John

clr900
Feb 24, 2004, 08:51 PM
do you have student discount? It's quite helpful...

TranceClubMusic
Feb 24, 2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by clr900
do you have student discount? It's quite helpful...

Yes I do.:D

clr900
Feb 24, 2004, 09:01 PM
By the way I think you're making a big mistake, don't do it! Just wait until march.

TranceClubMusic
Feb 24, 2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by clr900
By the way I think you're making a big mistake, don't do it! Just wait until march.

Honestly, I cant see a BIG price drop - even if New Speed Bumps come out - it more than likely will be same prices but slightly faster. I cant see PM G5's being any lower then $1,400 or 1,999 for the Dual 1.8

clr900
Feb 24, 2004, 11:05 PM
My plan is to get a dual 2ghz when the next revision comes out. I think that the price will drop signigicantly, I'm hoping not to pay over 2grand for a new one. Then I'm gonna get a 19in crt display for 200 and 512 ram for 90. Might get an external hd too.

clr900
Feb 24, 2004, 11:16 PM
If you absolutely had to buy it this Saturday I would definitely buy the dual 2ghz and the 17in apple lcd display with the bluetooth chip. That comes out to 3,343. That leaves you 400 dollars to spend on goodies. Next I would probably get 1gb of extra ram which would come out to almost 200. So 200 left...I would use that to buy an ipod if I didnt already have one. Or I would buy an external hd but a nice fw 800 one might be more than 200. Or I would spend a little more and get the radeon 9800 pro. An isight might be cool too ;) . You could always only get 512 extra ram and that would leave you an extra 300 which would allow you to get a nice external hd or 9800 or an ipod. Man I realy want a G5...

soyaspade
Feb 25, 2004, 12:28 AM
I'm in the same boat as TranceClubMusic. I'm going to go ahead and buy a dual 2 G5.

I was going to make the purchase in November, but friend told me to wait til the Mac World expo... which I did and that's when I got addicted to these rumors!

I'm more than ready to upgrade from my tired and stressed out toshiba laptop to my first mac!

john123
Feb 25, 2004, 12:30 AM
Why would you buy a computer right now unless you REALLY need one? You know that SOMETHING is going to come out in only a matter of months...why not wait?

If money's no object, well then of course, buy away...but if you view computers as too expensive to upgrade frequently, why not save your pennies and get a RevB, which will surely sport faster G5s, faster SuperDrives, and faster graphics cards?

TranceClubMusic
Feb 25, 2004, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by john123
Why would you buy a computer right now unless you REALLY need one? You know that SOMETHING is going to come out in only a matter of months...why not wait?

If money's no object, well then of course, buy away...but if you view computers as too expensive to upgrade frequently, why not save your pennies and get a RevB, which will surely sport faster G5s, faster SuperDrives, and faster graphics cards?

and..............will cost the same or NOT more then the current G5s:rolleyes:

john123
Feb 25, 2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by TranceClubMusic
and..............will cost the same or NOT more then the current G5s:rolleyes:

Unless you believe NeatGekko, who said that we'll see them in February (4 more days left) and that there will only be a "new" model with dual 3.0s at a higher price point than current ones.

aswitcher
Feb 25, 2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by john123
Unless you believe NeatGekko, who said that we'll see them in February (4 more days left) and that there will only be a "new" model with dual 3.0s at a higher price point than current ones.

tick tock, tick tock...its like Peter Pan and he's Captian Hook (who has already lost a hand :D ) and now the preverbial croc is coming again :p

wdlove
Feb 25, 2004, 01:43 PM
I think that it is pretty self evident that there will be no Rev. B G5 in February. Tuesday has passed. I agree with many others that if it is the major upgrade that we expect Steve will want to major event to announce it himself, like WWDC. Just a plain speed boost could occur in the March/April time frame.

invaLPsion
Feb 25, 2004, 07:40 PM
Maybe Steve will personally announce the new updates at the flagship store's opening? Apple is making a big deal of the opening on their website, with an exact time of opening and everything on their front page.

Just imagine, people coming in and seeing covered up items. "What is that?" they wonder. Steve Jobs comes out and says "It's the new G5! Woo Hoo!"

Plus the ram deal starts on the 27th, leaving the new powermacs to have a big startoff deal for their release on the 28th.

NeatGekko, don't fail us now! You can do it!

neonart
Feb 25, 2004, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by invaLPsion

Plus the ram deal starts on the 27th, leaving the new powermacs to have a big startoff deal for their release on the 28th.

I agree. If you notice the Ram offer does not indicate CPU speeds, which Apple is usually pretty clear about... weird.

aswitcher
Feb 25, 2004, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by invaLPsion
Maybe Steve will personally announce the new updates at the flagship store's opening? Apple is making a big deal of the opening on their website, with an exact time of opening and everything on their front page.

Just imagine, people coming in and seeing covered up items. "What is that?" they wonder. Steve Jobs comes out and says "It's the new G5! Woo Hoo!"

Plus the ram deal starts on the 27th, leaving the new powermacs to have a big startoff deal for their release on the 28th.

NeatGekko, don't fail us now! You can do it!

I do wonder if there might be something at the new San Fran store opening sooner than that...

clr900
Feb 25, 2004, 11:19 PM
I really don't want to wait until the end of march. A whole month longer....ugh so long.

clr900
Feb 25, 2004, 11:27 PM
I'm hoping for a release on the 28th but I really don't think it's gonna happen. Just doesn't seem like something they would do, "by the way we're also updating the g5's...introducing the dual 2.5ghz PowerMac G5!!" Of course if they did I would buy one immediatly :) .

Opteron
Feb 26, 2004, 01:41 AM
My guess is the next revision wont be out until PCI-Express and DDR-II, are wideley avaliable and on the market. This is mainley because of the advantages they bring and, ugrading the line before then will leave them once again behind the PC world.

This is all suppose to go down in mid april.

JamesDPS
Feb 26, 2004, 04:04 AM
If the update weren't until April, wouldn't that leave them only 4 months (tops) to deliver procs at the 3 GHz level? Or do you think they'll go straight to 3.0 and just skip over a 2.5 max interim?

Opteron
Feb 26, 2004, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by JamesDPS
If the update weren't until April, wouldn't that leave them only 4 months (tops) to deliver procs at the 3 GHz level? Or do you think they'll go straight to 3.0 and just skip over a 2.5 max interim?

This line of thought has been brought up many times, and with vague reports saying that the 970FX tops out @ 2.5GHz, who really knows.

All I know is what I have said. PCI-Express is leaps and bounds above current AGP tech, and the draw card of DDR-II is that it can fetch 4 bits of data per clock cycle, vs DDR-I (what we use now) which can fetch 2, and SD RAM (still used in the iBook and eMac) which can fetch 1.

One would hope apple, who sees itself as a market leader would want to incorporate these new technologies in there flagship models. So as not to be seen as a sub standard product, useing out dated technology.

To Australian viewers, this months issue of "PC PowerPlay" a PC gaming publication, has a 6 or so page speard on these new technologies. If your in a newsagency it's worth a read. or in my view worth buying.

invaLPsion
Feb 26, 2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Opteron
My guess is the next revision wont be out until PCI-Express and DDR-II, are wideley avaliable and on the market. This is mainley because of the advantages they bring and, ugrading the line before then will leave them once again behind the PC world.

This is all suppose to go down in mid april.

But these features may be too expensive at first. Plus there aren't exactly many PCI-Express graphics cards out there right now. Because of this, I'm better that the revision after this one will support those features, the G6 maybe at MWSF?

As for this revision, I am officially making the conjecture that it will be at 3GHz. That way, Apple will have an excuse to wait till MWSF to announce the G6.

I think NeatGekko will be correct in terms of speeds and lineup, but not as of the date.

invaLPsion
Feb 26, 2004, 11:28 AM
Apple Store San Francsico Press Conference
On a separate front, sources claim that Apple will most likely hold a press conference outside its latest flagship store sometime after 10:00am PST today. Security personnel have reportedly blocked parking around store to prepare for the conference.

The store, located in Union Square at One Stockton Street in San Francisco, will open on Saturday at 10:00 a.m. PST.

This was posted on Apple Insider, today.

This press conference has to be for powermac updates! NeatGekko was right all along. I'm calling it, UPDATES ON THE 28TH!
:D

djbahdow01
Feb 26, 2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by invaLPsion
Apple Store San Francsico Press Conference
On a separate front, sources claim that Apple will most likely hold a press conference outside its latest flagship store sometime after 10:00am PST today. Security personnel have reportedly blocked parking around store to prepare for the conference.

The store, located in Union Square at One Stockton Street in San Francisco, will open on Saturday at 10:00 a.m. PST.

This was posted on Apple Insider, today.

This press conference has to be for powermac updates! NeatGekko was right all along. I'm calling it, UPDATES ON THE 28TH!
:D

Where did you find this article. Also other people as well as me have mentioned that the PM's could be announced at the grand opening of the flagship store. Id like to read the article if you can post a link. Thanks

edit... sorry missed the apple insider info.

numediaman
Feb 26, 2004, 02:13 PM
Apple will announce the micro iPod at the S.F. store opening.

The iPod is approximately one inch in size and holds one 3-minute MP3. No headphones are necessary, one simply shoves the iPod into the ear. After several weeks the iPod dissolves and you have to buy another. (Kind of like disposable contact lens.)

Of course, I could be wrong and they will announce some computer hardware . . . Nah.

Opteron
Feb 26, 2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by invaLPsion
But these features may be too expensive at first. Plus there aren't exactly many PCI-Express graphics cards out there right now. Because of this, I'm better that the revision after this one will support those features, the G6 maybe at MWSF?

As for this revision, I am officially making the conjecture that it will be at 3GHz. That way, Apple will have an excuse to wait till MWSF to announce the G6.

I think NeatGekko will be correct in terms of speeds and lineup, but not as of the date.

That's the whole point, these technologies aren't avaliable now. Go to www.nvidia.com and www.ati.com and have a look at their pree release section. There are numours articles talking about PCI-Express and the advantages it brings.

The relsease of these technologies is to coninside with the release of the new BTX motherboard standard, along with the release of Intel's Socket 754, for the next generation of P4's. While I am confident AMD will move to BTX at the sam time, I'm not aware of any socket pin number changes.

JamesDPS
Feb 26, 2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by numediaman
Apple will announce the micro iPod at the S.F. store opening.

The iPod is approximately one inch in size and holds one 3-minute MP3. No headphones are necessary, one simply shoves the iPod into the ear. After several weeks the iPod dissolves and you have to buy another. (Kind of like disposable contact lens.)

Of course, I could be wrong and they will announce some computer hardware . . . Nah.


No, you were right the first time... but don't tell anyone where you heard it (shhh) :cool:

JamesDPS
Feb 27, 2004, 04:12 AM
Just to add a bit more about my frustration with waiting: Bogus! :( NEED NEW G5!!! (basically because I've waited so long, and I don't want to pay new 'puter prices for something 6 months old...) Although I wish I knew it would take this long -- still kicking myself for not buying a dual 1.8 from the UCLA store... they had them for $1999 (which I can probably say without violating any Apple rules since the deal is over now, and I don't represent the UCLA store anyway).