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View Full Version : What Apple *should* do to fill the 12" Powerbook Gap




eidrunner247
Nov 30, 2008, 09:00 PM
Granted, the new Aluminum Macbooks half come a long way in filling the gap for those users that wanted a replacement for the 12" Powerbook. Still, I am not quite satisfied and I wanted to see if there are others felt the same way.

The 12" Powerbook was Pro performance with iBook portability. And (if I remember correctly) it also had a backlit keyboard. Currently only the high end Macbook has that feature.

Still what essentially separates the Macbook from the Macbook Pro is the graphics card. So, here is what I advocate: put a dedicated graphics card in the high end Macbook. That will allow it to be the true 12" Powerbook replacement.

I'm not saying this will happen, but in my world, that's what I'd like to see. Anyone else have these same musings?



QuarterSwede
Nov 30, 2008, 09:03 PM
Most 12" owners think the MacBook is still too big. Also, it didn't come with a backlit keyboard simply because they couldn't fit it in the case.

tubbymac
Nov 30, 2008, 09:07 PM
I agree that that change, among a few others, would make the Macbook almost the perfect machine. The only problem with this though is that it would start cannibalizing Apple's other notebook products. People would have less reason to buy a Macbook Pro or a Macbook Air. If the Macbook had the same screen as the Air, for instance, much less people would buy the Air. If the Macbook had firewire and a dedicated graphics card, much less people would buy the Pro.

This would be great for consumers but it's not what Apple wants. They want to sell you the higher end products, the Macbook Pro and the Mac Pro, because the profit margins are bigger at the high end.

silverblack
Nov 30, 2008, 09:10 PM
I loved my 12" PB, but now that I have the Al-MB, I'd much rather have the thinner form factor with a slightly large footprint (bigger screen size).

I saw a used 12" PB when I picked up my Al-MB a few weeks ago. Boy, that thing was thick!

thejadedmonkey
Nov 30, 2008, 09:28 PM
I'd rather the smaller footprint with a CD drive then the thinner case, just saying..

QuarterSwede
Nov 30, 2008, 09:36 PM
I loved my 12" PB, but now that I have the Al-MB, I'd much rather have the thinner form factor with a slightly large footprint (bigger screen size).

I saw a used 12" PB when I picked up my Al-MB a few weeks ago. Boy, that thing was thick!
I completely agree. The new Al MB is really a nice machine when you see it in person. I've never felt a computer so solid before either. The only thing I hate about it is the keyboard. I love the PB's keyboard and I've used my wife's MB enough to know I HATE the chicklet keys.

smooth
Dec 1, 2008, 08:49 AM
Since I started looking at Macs over a year ago, the one thing that the PC companies have over Apple is the variety in their notebook lines. There is typically a consumer line and a professional line, both with several size options.

If Apple had 2 product lines, each with 4 sizes: 11" 13" 15" 17", then the pro models of the 11" and 13" models would make the former and current Powerbook owners very happy. The biggest trend that I've seen on this site is the wish for an equivalent model. The 11" consumer model would be Apple's version of the netbook. And my personal belief is that many potential switchers do not like the cost of the 15" MacBook Pros but want the screen real estate and just will not dish out that kind of money. I can think of at least a dozen people who won't consider Apple for that very reason.

Personally, I don't really have a want or a need for a Powerbook replacement, but I think it would be smart for Apple to offer something. I see how much Apple's notebook market share has grown since the MacBook and MacBook Pro lines have been introduced. I think it could have been even more if there were more options.

penfool
Dec 1, 2008, 10:21 AM
Yeah i was kinda struck by how you could only get 13 inch macbook or 15 inch pro.

would have thought there would have been a market for larger screen macbook and even for a smaller one say 11-12 inch highly portable.

still guess they know what there doing.....

rdowns
Dec 1, 2008, 10:38 AM
The 12" PB G4 was discontinued on May 16, 2006- almost 31 months ago. Were Apple to try and replace it, it would have been done already.

cellocello
Dec 1, 2008, 10:59 AM
Apple's a pretty small company guys - not sure how you expect them to sustain an EIGHT model laptop line-up.

Dell can offer something like this, because all they do is literally put chips in boxes. No OS development, no hardware development, no nothing and they quite honestly move 10x the hardware Apple does. Offering tons of laptop models makes business sense for Dell.

Apple can't work miracles - they can't offer a different laptop model for every single specific set of exacting requirements people might have out there. They offer 4 different laptops that are pretty customizable spec-wise; pretty decent if you ask me.

penfool
Dec 1, 2008, 11:19 AM
Yeah i was kinda struck by how you could only get 13 inch macbook or 15 inch pro.

would have thought there would have been a market for larger screen macbook and even for a smaller one say 11-12 inch highly portable.

still guess they know what there doing.....

Apple's a pretty small company guys - not sure how you expect them to sustain an EIGHT model laptop line-up.

Dell can offer something like this, because all they do is literally put chips in boxes. No OS development, no hardware development, no nothing and they quite honestly move 10x the hardware Apple does. Offering tons of laptop models makes business sense for Dell.

Apple can't work miracles - they can't offer a different laptop model for every single specific set of exacting requirements people might have out there. They offer 4 different laptops that are pretty customizable spec-wise; pretty decent if you ask me.

But I want one..........:D

BanjoBanker
Dec 1, 2008, 11:32 AM
I loved the size of my trusty 12" PB, and I still do. That being said, I really enjoy the performance of my C2D Blackbook. I have looked at the AL MacBooks and I do not see a reason to upgrade at this point in time. I love the form factor of the MBA, but again, no real advantage that would warrant an upgrade from the BlackBook. The 12" PB was a way cool little machine, but the new MacBooks make a perfect replacement, they are lighter and only a tad larger in footprint. I wonder how many of the people who gripe about no replacement for the 12" PB ever owned one? :rolleyes:

smooth
Dec 1, 2008, 11:46 AM
Apple's a pretty small company guys - not sure how you expect them to sustain an EIGHT model laptop line-up.

Dell can offer something like this, because all they do is literally put chips in boxes. No OS development, no hardware development, no nothing and they quite honestly move 10x the hardware Apple does. Offering tons of laptop models makes business sense for Dell.

Apple can't work miracles - they can't offer a different laptop model for every single specific set of exacting requirements people might have out there. They offer 4 different laptops that are pretty customizable spec-wise; pretty decent if you ask me.

I'm definitely not saying Apple should operate like Dell nor should they have nearly as many models. I certainly wouldn't expect a 15" notebook for under $1000. But close or at $1000? It could be possible. And 2 seperate "models" are not necessary either if they could offer a configuration of the 15" and 17" models that would not be considered "pro." So in a sense, they'd be eliminating the white MacBook and replacing it with an 11" notebook that can be configured as a MacBook or a MacBook Pro. When the Powerbook was around, there was 3 sizes plus 2 sizes of iBooks and both models were quite successful - so it's not like Apple has not had greater variety before.

I would say get rid of the MacBook Pro name - go strictly with MacBook. With the MacBook Air, there would be 5 models - same number that they have right now. The high-end models would become the unofficial MBPs.

Yes, Apple is a smaller company, but all this is based on the assumption that they want to grow. Variety will help that. If you believe Apple wants to keep a smaller marketshare, then yes, having just a few options is the best route to go. Based on what I've read about the company, I don't think that is the case.

smooth
Dec 1, 2008, 11:50 AM
I loved the size of my trusty 12" PB, and I still do. That being said, I really enjoy the performance of my C2D Blackbook. I have looked at the AL MacBooks and I do not see a reason to upgrade at this point in time. I love the form factor of the MBA, but again, no real advantage that would warrant an upgrade from the BlackBook. The 12" PB was a way cool little machine, but the new MacBooks make a perfect replacement, they are lighter and only a tad larger in footprint. I wonder how many of the people who gripe about no replacement for the 12" PB ever owned one? :rolleyes:

I wonder that myself, but it is the biggest complaint that I've seen on these boards. Personally, I too have a BlackBook and I love it. My only compaint is that I wish it were bigger. When I first got it, I had an iBook that I was getting files from before giving it back to my pastor to sell it. I barely noticed a size difference.

molala
Dec 1, 2008, 11:51 AM
As a 12" PB owner, I don't mind paying 500/$1000 more for the MacBook if it had firewire and a better screen. That would have been the perfect upgrade for me. Instead, I upgraded to a refurb last gen blackbook. Heavier than what I'm used to and what I would like, but I'm happy with it for now.

silverblack
Dec 1, 2008, 12:22 PM
As a 12" PB owner, I don't mind paying 500/$1000 more for the MacBook if it had firewire and a better screen.

Good for you. But a lot of people would NOT pay $2500 for what you described as a 13" MBP (current MB with the better screen and firewire), probably not even $2000. People (especially students) are already complaining that the $1000+ MBs being too expensive compared to PCs.

Besides, such $2000+ 13" MBP would compete directly with MBA and 15" MBP. Doing so not only hurts the Al-MB sales, but also the MBA and MBP sales.

macnvrbck
Dec 1, 2008, 12:44 PM
As a 12" PB owner, I don't mind paying 500/$1000 more for the MacBook if it had firewire and a better screen. That would have been the perfect upgrade for me. Instead, I upgraded to a refurb last gen blackbook. Heavier than what I'm used to and what I would like, but I'm happy with it for now.


Me too! I'm happy for now. The Blackbook smokes the 12 inch G4 and I still sold it for quite a pretty penny!

paolo-
Dec 1, 2008, 02:44 PM
I'm personally thinking a smaller screen on the air. Add FW to the macbook (maybe as an option, mind you, they'd need a different case for it, so they'd probably need to put it on all of them) keep gpu it has. Still quite fast and keeps price lower, will also drive more people to the MBP with grand central. OR, have an equivalent to the blackbook that would have FW, better screen and maybe keep the illuminated keyboard strictly on that one (mind you, keep the non-scence as options, like bigger HDD to keep it's price point much closer to the MB than that of the MBP. No real changes to the MBP : get the 17" to unibody, though I'm thinking it's not available in unibody as maybe the factory can't accept the size of it...

Then, offer matte screen as an option on the MB and MBP, maybe put a premium for it on the MB and put a better screen with the matte option. I think those who really want the better screen are essentially the same that want a matte screen. Or maybe having both options wouldn't be all the much of a problem.

That way, the air would be more desirable as it would be even more portable. I think those that want the air want a super portable machine and don't actually want it to be a 'screamer'. The impact on performance a smaller screen would imply would probably be okay with most potential buyer. It would probably bring it's price to something a bit more saner, also. As of right now, I think there's a huge premium for the MBA simply because it allows users to differentiate from the run of the mill MB.

There is a market for a 'pro' 13". Or... there are people that don't just browse the web and use iTunes that would like to use a 13" computer and want a fully capable laptop.

molala
Dec 1, 2008, 04:09 PM
Good for you. But a lot of people would NOT pay $2500 for what you described as a 13" MBP (current MB with the better screen and firewire), probably not even $2000. People (especially students) are already complaining that the $1000+ MBs being too expensive compared to PCs.

Besides, such $2000+ 13" MBP would compete directly with MBA and 15" MBP. Doing so not only hurts the Al-MB sales, but also the MBA and MBP sales.

Apple's portable line used to be a lot simpler. If you wanted a small portable, you could get a consumer 12-inch iBook or a pro 12-inch PowerBook. You either paid more or made sacrifices.

Now my dream laptop would have to compete with the Al-MB, MBA and MBP - all of which sacrifice something.

eidrunner247
Dec 2, 2008, 12:32 PM
There is a market for a 'pro' 13". Or... there are people that don't just browse the web and use iTunes that would like to use a 13" computer and want a fully capable laptop.

That's exactly my point. There was certainly a difference between the ibook 12" and the Powerbook G4 12". Namely the graphics card. The Powerbook 12" was just that "fully capable laptop."

I'd like to see the Macbook (high-end) with the Nvidia 9600. Charge $1,799 or something like that (maybe $1,699) - there will be lots of buyers. I'd jump on it. That would be the true replacement to the powerbook 12"

hayduke
Dec 2, 2008, 12:46 PM
Just trim the bezel on the air. Done.

StuBeck
Dec 2, 2008, 01:11 PM
I highly doubt there will be anything to fill the gap. Apple doesn't care about it anymore, hence their push with the 13.3" machines.

jensepollense
Dec 2, 2008, 01:22 PM
I recently switched from a 12" PB G4 to the new aluminum Macbooks, and I definitely can see that some people would like to have a notebook with the 12" form factor back. I just think it'd be hard for Apple to do something with this without cannibalizing sales of on of their other notebooks, be it the Macbook or the MBA.

molala
Dec 2, 2008, 01:35 PM
If it does canibalize sales of the MBA or MB, then drop the least popular laptop. Small doesn't have to be crippled.

jensepollense
Dec 2, 2008, 04:44 PM
If it does canibalize sales of the MBA or MB, then drop the least popular laptop. Small doesn't have to be crippled.

I guess you're right, but there's no way to do this without making lots of folks angry. Apple obviously seems very satisfied with their current lineup, so maybe they don't see a need to change something that, in their view, doesn't need to be changed.

mcdj
Dec 2, 2008, 07:43 PM
I loved my 12" PB, but now that I have the Al-MB, I'd much rather have the thinner form factor with a slightly large footprint (bigger screen size).

I saw a used 12" PB when I picked up my Al-MB a few weeks ago. Boy, that thing was thick!

Ditto.

robanga
Dec 2, 2008, 07:46 PM
Apple's a pretty small company guys - not sure how you expect them to sustain an EIGHT model laptop line-up.

Dell can offer something like this, because all they do is literally put chips in boxes. No OS development, no hardware development, no nothing and they quite honestly move 10x the hardware Apple does. Offering tons of laptop models makes business sense for Dell.

Apple can't work miracles - they can't offer a different laptop model for every single specific set of exacting requirements people might have out there. They offer 4 different laptops that are pretty customizable spec-wise; pretty decent if you ask me.

+1 Very good post

Beric
Dec 2, 2008, 08:04 PM
Apple's a pretty small company guys - not sure how you expect them to sustain an EIGHT model laptop line-up.

Dell can offer something like this, because all they do is literally put chips in boxes. No OS development, no hardware development, no nothing and they quite honestly move 10x the hardware Apple does. Offering tons of laptop models makes business sense for Dell.

Apple can't work miracles - they can't offer a different laptop model for every single specific set of exacting requirements people might have out there. They offer 4 different laptops that are pretty customizable spec-wise; pretty decent if you ask me.

Don't tell me this. Apple is the biggest notebook vendor on college campuses. And yet they have so few models and so few options.

A product line that is not overly large helps eliminate customer confusion. But a small product line like Apple's makes many (like me) look elsewhere for more customizability and options.

Molopo
Dec 2, 2008, 08:05 PM
Just trim the bezel on the air. Done.

-

cellocello
Dec 2, 2008, 10:53 PM
Don't tell me this. Apple is the biggest notebook vendor on college campuses. And yet they have so few models and so few options.

A product line that is not overly large helps eliminate customer confusion. But a small product line like Apple's makes many (like me) look elsewhere for more customizability and options.

Biggest notebook vendor on campus? Oh well. Just wait till you see companies order literally 1000's of Dells at a time. I can't being to tell you the stacks of Dells and IBMs I've seen in my day. When people say that Apple owns <10% of the market, they ain't kidding.

If you need lots of customization and options, then ya - a MacBook probably isn't for you. MS stuff is more "jack of all trades" and Mac stuff is more "one size fits all". Just get what works for you.

HLdan
Dec 2, 2008, 11:04 PM
Granted, the new Aluminum Macbooks half come a long way in filling the gap for those users that wanted a replacement for the 12" Powerbook. Still, I am not quite satisfied and I wanted to see if there are others felt the same way.

The 12" Powerbook was Pro performance with iBook portability. And (if I remember correctly) it also had a backlit keyboard. Currently only the high end Macbook has that feature.

Still what essentially separates the Macbook from the Macbook Pro is the graphics card. So, here is what I advocate: put a dedicated graphics card in the high end Macbook. That will allow it to be the true 12" Powerbook replacement.

I'm not saying this will happen, but in my world, that's what I'd like to see. Anyone else have these same musings?

Wow, you certainly don't remember the 12" Powerbook very well do you? Firstly, it was NOT pro performance with iBook portability. It was a glorified iBook and nothing more.
It did not have the Powerbook 15" or 17" GPU, in fact it's GPU was only a little better than the iBook. The 12" Powerbook certainly did not have the power of the 15" or 17". It was always several hundred megahertz slower than the 15 and 17". Also the ram max was the same as the iBook.
Also there was no backlit keyboard on the 12" Powerbook and no option for it either.
Also there was no PC card slot.
Also there was no Firewire 800 like the 15 and the 17" had.
It also had a washed out screen with limited brightness.
It also offered a smaller HDD than the 15" and 17".

All of this describes the iBook G4.

What it HAD in common with the 15" and 17" was the obvious, an aluminum shell.

The new Unibody Macbook is not only the perfect successor to the 12" Powerbook, it certainly outshines it and is much closer inline with the pro models.

Saladinos
Dec 2, 2008, 11:17 PM
Biggest notebook vendor on campus? Oh well. Just wait till you see companies order literally 1000's of Dells at a time. I can't being to tell you the stacks of Dells and IBMs I've seen in my day. When people say that Apple owns <10% of the market, they ain't kidding.

If you need lots of customization and options, then ya - a MacBook probably isn't for you. MS stuff is more "jack of all trades" and Mac stuff is more "one size fits all". Just get what works for you.

Apple have never been "one size fits all". That's totally the wrong mindset. If one size fits all, why doesn't one OS? Why don't we all use Windows?

Apple aren't a small company at all. That's a complete illusion. They've got $20-something billion in cash, and their market cap is 4x larger than Dell (82Bn vs 20Bn). In market cap terms, they're as big as HP. They have the fastest growing retail outlet of any kind, and their market share is hitting record highs. They're starting to be really popular with small businesses, have been #1 music retailer for a while now, and overtook the RAZR as the most popular mobile phone. Apple are massive.

Oh, and at one point earlier this year, their market cap surpassed IBM and Intel, and at another point Google. Don't tell me Apple is a small company.

eidrunner247
Dec 2, 2008, 11:32 PM
Wow, you certainly don't remember the 12" Powerbook very well do you? Firstly, it was NOT pro performance with iBook portability. It was a glorified iBook and nothing more.
It did not have the Powerbook 15" or 17" GPU, in fact it's GPU was only a little better than the iBook. The 12" Powerbook certainly did not have the power of the 15" or 17". It was always several hundred megahertz slower than the 15 and 17". Also the ram max was the same as the iBook.
Also there was no backlit keyboard on the 12" Powerbook and no option for it either.
Also there was no PC card slot.
Also there was no Firewire 800 like the 15 and the 17" had.
It also had a washed out screen with limited brightness.
It also offered a smaller HDD than the 15" and 17".

All of this describes the iBook G4.

What it HAD in common with the 15" and 17" was the obvious, an aluminum shell.

The new Unibody Macbook is not only the perfect successor to the 12" Powerbook, it certainly outshines it and is much closer inline with the pro models.

Point well taken. There was a lot of complaints about the 12" Powerbook being a steep price increase to the somewhat comparable iBook.

Your characterization the Powerbook G4 12", however, tends to negate some of its features which separated it from the iBook. The 12" Powerbook has consistently featured a faster process than the iBook. Even when the processor was less than the 17" model, it tended to be equivalent to the base 15" (http://support.apple.com/kb/SP91) model. Its graphics card also was superior to the iBook. Same with the hard drive (http://support.apple.com/kb/SP38), it tended to be equal with the base 15" model. Granted, it did not have a PC card slot or a the same graphics card as the larger models, but there were certain form factors to be considered. It would be tough (if not impossible) to integrate the same features into much smaller area without it running too hot.

And sure the max RAM on the Powerbook 12" was the same with the iBook, but I don't feel that maximum RAM capacity is an indicator of a Pro/consumer performance. The Powerbook RAM used faster RAM (PC 2700) than the iBook (PC 2100) (with the exception of the latest model iBook which ran at the same PC 2700 speeds). I mean, both the Macbook and the Macbook Pro hold the same amount of RAM, but that's not to say that the MBP is a supped-up MB.

That being said, we can technically consider every Powerbook/MPB a glorified iBook/Mb. The only differences are: (feature 1), (feature 2), (feature 3) that is present on the Pro machines but absent on the consumer models.

I think the Powerbook 12" had enough differences to take it out of the iBook category. I think you offer a fair assessment, but I take a alternative view on the differences.

clyde2801
Dec 3, 2008, 05:55 AM
Wow, you certainly don't remember the 12" Powerbook very well do you? Firstly, it was NOT pro performance with iBook portability. It was a glorified iBook and nothing more.
It did not have the Powerbook 15" or 17" GPU, in fact it's GPU was only a little better than the iBook. The 12" Powerbook certainly did not have the power of the 15" or 17". It was always several hundred megahertz slower than the 15 and 17". Also the ram max was the same as the iBook.
Also there was no backlit keyboard on the 12" Powerbook and no option for it either.
Also there was no PC card slot.
Also there was no Firewire 800 like the 15 and the 17" had.
It also had a washed out screen with limited brightness.
It also offered a smaller HDD than the 15" and 17".

All of this describes the iBook G4.

What it HAD in common with the 15" and 17" was the obvious, an aluminum shell.

The new Unibody Macbook is not only the perfect successor to the 12" Powerbook, it certainly outshines it and is much closer inline with the pro models.

The ibook screen was blocky and pixelated compared to the baby powerbook. The book only mirrored the internal screen on an external one, you had to hack it to do spanning. The last Book had 32 mb video card, the BPB had 64.

Apple's always put lower quality displays on its consumer models to save money. The MB is a better screen (IMO) than the book or plastic MBs, but it's not quite the same quality as on the MBP.

smooth
Dec 3, 2008, 06:04 AM
That being said, we can technically consider every Powerbook/MPB a glorified iBook/Mb. The only differences are: (feature 1), (feature 2), (feature 3) that is present on the Pro machines but absent on the consumer models.

I think the Powerbook 12" had enough differences to take it out of the iBook category. I think you offer a fair assessment, but I take a alternative view on the differences.

I agree with this. That is why it *might* be a good idea to drop the idea of a "Pro" machine. Just give us more BTO options. They could continue having 3 pricing points per model which would be available at stores but if someone wants a more customized machine, they have to use the website or order it at the store. Throw in an 11" model and I think it would make more people happy - not everyone, but that is life.

As far as the Air goes, I don't think re-thinking their models or adding an 11" model would cannibalize the sales all that much. 2-Dimensionally, the Air and the Macbook are very close and the fact that the Air is selling as much as it is truly surprises me. I know many would disagree with me, but to me the thinness and light weight are just not worth the price. But its sales speak differently, which goes to show you that customers want more variety.

clyde2801
Dec 3, 2008, 06:20 AM
I agree with this. That is why it *might* be a good idea to drop the idea of a "Pro" machine. Just give us more BTO options. They could continue having 3 pricing points per model which would be available at stores but if someone wants a more customized machine, they have to use the website or order it at the store. Throw in an 11" model and I think it would make more people happy - not everyone, but that is life.

As far as the Air goes, I don't think re-thinking their models or adding an 11" model would cannibalize the sales all that much. 2-Dimensionally, the Air and the Macbook are very close and the fact that the Air is selling as much as it is truly surprises me. I know many would disagree with me, but to me the thinness and light weight are just not worth the price. But its sales speak differently, which goes to show you that customers want more variety.

Yeah. The air has a cool design, but it seems to be nothing more than 'the CEO's netbook'. Something thin and light so their Admin Ass't won't drop it or break it while they're going to fetch another cup of coffee..

nick9191
Dec 3, 2008, 06:24 AM
Granted, the new Aluminum Macbooks half come a long way in filling the gap for those users that wanted a replacement for the 12" Powerbook. Still, I am not quite satisfied and I wanted to see if there are others felt the same way.

The 12" Powerbook was Pro performance with iBook portability. And (if I remember correctly) it also had a backlit keyboard. Currently only the high end Macbook has that feature.

Still what essentially separates the Macbook from the Macbook Pro is the graphics card. So, here is what I advocate: put a dedicated graphics card in the high end Macbook. That will allow it to be the true 12" Powerbook replacement.

I'm not saying this will happen, but in my world, that's what I'd like to see. Anyone else have these same musings?

The 12" Powerbook was slower than its 15" cousin. It had a slower CPU, slower graphics, and a measly 1024x768 screen. It didn't have a backlit keyboard, and in the first couple of revisions it didn't even have a DVD burner or built in wireless. The new Macbook is as close as it comes to a Macbook Pro, without the size. The high end Macbook and low end Pro have identical processors. Great graphics beating most dedicated solutions at that size and that price. The 12" Powerbook even weighs more than the new Macbook by 0.1 pounds believe it or not. The only thing the Macbook loses to the 12" powerbook on is the Firewire port.

Not to mention it clashed horribly with the 12" iBook.

Biggest notebook vendor on campus? Oh well. Just wait till you see companies order literally 1000's of Dells at a time. I can't being to tell you the stacks of Dells and IBMs I've seen in my day. When people say that Apple owns <10% of the market, they ain't kidding.
Doesn't work like that.

Apple does own a 10% share of all computers, however if you actually look at what they are selling on a day to day basis they have a over a 20% share, putting them at the third/fourth largest OEM in the world, next to Dell and HP, and possibly Compaq. And they are growing at 50% per year. And specifically in the consumer market, they are the only guys making a profit.

Reason? A lot of consumers often take years to upgrade their computers, so the overall Mac install base will take quite a while to reflect what they are selling.

Apple are by no means a small company.

Beric
Dec 3, 2008, 07:20 AM
Apple is a huge company. The fact that they have so few models available points to the obvious: their limited lineup is directly tied to their profits. So by forcing the customer to buy much more than he actually needs, they obtain huge profit margins. They force customers to "buy up" to a MBP just to obtain one feature, like a bigger screen, or a graphics card that's worth anything.

Some, like me, refuse to buy into this scheme. But other loyal customers take it in full stride, unaware that if Apple actually had a more reasonable amount of models available, each customer would on average spend much less per machine.

cellocello
Dec 3, 2008, 08:30 AM
# Apple employees - 32,000
# Dell employees - 82,700
# Microsoft employees - 90,000
# HP employees - 320,000
# IBM employees- 386,000

Besides, consumer market what it is (big, but not really that big), I've never seen huge amounts of Macs, except at schools. All those skyscarpers you see in downtown cores around the world? Packed to the gills with non-Apple computers. Packed.

And what's the deal with everyone thinking they're outsmarting Apple? So Acer sells a million different models of laptops - go buy an Acer then. Why the drama? Why do people come on boards like this to proclaim their awesome "insight"? Such weak sauce.

molala
Dec 3, 2008, 09:45 AM
The 12" PB was never as good as the 15" PB. Somehow we forgave that because it was the smallest/lightest Apple laptop for a long time (since the 2400c of 1997). But over the 12" iBook, the PB had a better screen, faster processor and Superdrive. Also it was thinner and lighter than the iBook.

roland.g
Dec 3, 2008, 10:33 AM
There are two options for 12" PB owners, the Air, or either MacBook. Sorry but as a prior owner of a 12" PB, it is not all that great of a machine. If anything the 12" PB was not a downsized version of the 15" and 17" siblings, but rather it had its shortcomings to: i.e. soldered ram which limited how much ram. No PCMCIA card slot.

I think Apple has made the right decision to go with the Air and the MacBooks and Pros. 13" is certainly more of a sweet spot than 12" in terms of real estate vs. size. Air covers the weight aspect. The new MacBooks weigh what the 12" does/did - 4.5 lbs. And their new graphics chips are quite respectable.

molala
Dec 3, 2008, 10:51 AM
Unfortunately, the Air has a serious lack of ports and DVD drive. It was really going to be inconvenient for me to go from the 12"PB to that. The MacBook would have been the perfect upgrade for me if it had firewire - but for a lot of people this is probably acceptable.

nomorevista
Dec 3, 2008, 11:08 AM
I know that this is going to upset you all - but looking at the stats, it looks like the new macbook is the 12 inch powerbook to me. Unless this is a firewire issue, yet again

When looking at the stats- where is the room in the market for a 12 inch macbook - look at the weight and overall dimensions - i cant see a market for this if you put them in a shop side by side.

Now a lightweight 10 inch macbook air at $800 - thats a market i could see

CoreyMac
Dec 3, 2008, 11:15 AM
Apple is not going to create a 12" notebook. 13" is the sweet spot, and then they have 15" & 17" models as well. The 13" comes in paper thin form for general use, or slightly thicker form (and lighter than the powerbook) for more serious use.

Apple will never make a netbook either. They will tell you the iPhone is just as capable as a netbook, and half the size. But anyways, I think the 2.4GHz 13" AlumBook is the best Notebook (Price to Spec) that they have ever created. Its a screamer with Pro features & aesthetics but with more portability.

roland.g
Dec 3, 2008, 11:25 AM
Apple is not going to create a 12" notebook. 13" is the sweet spot, and then they have 15" & 17" models as well. The 13" comes in paper thin form for general use, or slightly thicker form (and lighter than the powerbook) for more serious use.

Apple will never make a netbook either. They will tell you the iPhone is just as capable as a netbook, and half the size. But anyways, I think the 2.4GHz 13" AlumBook is the best Notebook (Price to Spec) that they have ever created. Its a screamer with Pro features & aesthetics but with more portability.

That's why I got it.

seven.z
Dec 3, 2008, 09:51 PM
heh .. the reason why i got mine as well:D:D

its awesome ..