Clinton named secretary of state [Archive]

edesignuk

Dec 1, 2008, 10:59 AM

US President-elect Barack Obama has nominated his former rival Hillary Clinton as his secretary of state.

The news follows weeks of speculation as to what role the former first lady would play in the Obama administration.

Mrs Clinton lost out to Mr Obama when the two contested a bitterly fought race for the Democratic Party presidential nomination.

At a news conference in Chicago, Mr Obama also announced nominations for other key National Security team posts.

Although the two repeatedly clashed during the nomination race, Mrs Clinton went on to campaign for Mr Obama as he took on Republican John McCain in the race for the White House. BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7758673.stm).

rdowns

Dec 1, 2008, 11:17 AM

Maybe Stevento will now come to grips that she won't be President. :eek:

leekohler

Dec 1, 2008, 11:28 AM

Maybe Stevento will now come to grips that she won't be President. :eek:

Heehee! I was just thinking the same thing. :) Really though, didn't we know this pretty much already? I thought I heard this about two weeks ago. Anyway, not too surprising.

rdowns

Dec 1, 2008, 11:41 AM

Technically, she can become President if Obama, Bieden, Pelosi and Robert Byrd all die. The Secretary of State is 4th in line for Presidential succession.

IJ Reilly

Dec 1, 2008, 11:42 AM

Maybe Stevento will now come to grips that she won't be President. :eek:

Actually she will become fourth in line, after the VP, the Speaker of the House and President Pro tempore of the Senate!

rdowns

Dec 1, 2008, 11:43 AM

Actually she will become fourth in line, after the VP, the Speaker of the House and President Pro tempore of the Senate!

I knew that. ^^ ;)

iJohnHenry

Dec 1, 2008, 11:45 AM

<hide the knives> (A remnant of an iGary reply.) ;)

IJ Reilly

Dec 1, 2008, 11:48 AM

I knew that. ^^ ;)

Fill in conspiracy theories here:

:eek:

joepunk

Dec 1, 2008, 12:59 PM

That's nice to hear about Hillary Clinton getting Secretary of State. Now I hope the news agencies don't go overboard like (IMO) they did with the Obama's daughters and what school will they be attending. It was cute in the beginning/first reporting.

mactastic

Dec 1, 2008, 01:25 PM

Bill must have agreed to some pretty stringent reporting requirements viz-a-vis the CGI and his speaking agenda and library donors.

Of course, he owed Hillary a pretty big favor...

Lord Blackadder

Dec 1, 2008, 01:29 PM

'bout time this became official.

CorvusCamenarum

Dec 1, 2008, 01:30 PM

I doubt anyone cares, especially the constitutional law professor we just elected into office come January, but this might not be entirely legal:

No Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time: and no person holding any office under the United States, shall be a member of either House during his continuance in office.
source (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section6)

Cabinet members are paid according to Executive Schedule Level I(source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Cabinet)).

2007 Executive Level I salary - $186,000 (http://www.opm.gov/oca/07tables/html/ex.asp)
2008 Executive Level I salary - $191,300 (http://www.opm.gov/oca/08tables/html/ex.asp)

As Congress also passed a bill for increasing pay for these positions into 2009, it would seem as though Hillary is ineligible to jump horses in midstream as it were.

skunk

Dec 1, 2008, 01:31 PM

Bill must have agreed to some pretty stringent reporting requirements viz-a-vis the CGI and his speaking agenda and library donors.

Of course, he owed Hillary a pretty big favor...He did agree to having all donors published, both now and for as long as H is in the Cabinet, and to clear all business deals and speaking engagements with the WH beforehand, which shows some pretty tough dealing by BO. Good to see.

IJ Reilly

Dec 1, 2008, 01:35 PM

I doubt anyone cares, especially the constitutional law professor we just elected into office come January, but this might not be entirely legal:

But at this point they are merely nominees for the posts. Presumably they must resign their elected offices prior to being confirmed.

mactastic

Dec 1, 2008, 01:36 PM

I doubt anyone cares, especially the constitutional law professor we just elected into office come January, but this might not be entirely legal:

source (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section6)

Cabinet members are paid according to Executive Schedule Level I(source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Cabinet)).

2007 Executive Level I salary - $186,000 (http://www.opm.gov/oca/07tables/html/ex.asp)
2008 Executive Level I salary - $191,300 (http://www.opm.gov/oca/08tables/html/ex.asp)

As Congress also passed a bill for increasing pay for these positions into 2009, it would seem as though Hillary is ineligible to jump horses in midstream as it were.
This issue has come up before, and Congress has always managed to find a way to "make it legit" for members of both parties. One way is to refuse the raise, IIRC.

And really, this does seem like an anachronistic law, doesn't it?

skunk

Dec 1, 2008, 01:37 PM

But at this point they are merely nominees for the posts. Presumably they must resign their elected offices prior to being confirmed.The point presumably was that the emolument for the office has been increased during her term as Senator...

IJ Reilly

Dec 1, 2008, 01:49 PM

The point presumably was that the emolument for the office has been increased during her term as Senator...

Yes, I see the point now. This probably happens quite frequently though, so I suspect the Constitutional prohibition isn't so clear.

skunk

Dec 1, 2008, 01:57 PM

This probably happens quite frequently though, so I suspect the Constitutional prohibition isn't so clear.It must be so. I'm sure a quick search would find it happens more often than not.

CorvusCamenarum

Dec 1, 2008, 02:06 PM

This issue has come up before, and Congress has always managed to find a way to "make it legit" for members of both parties. One way is to refuse the raise, IIRC.
Really? When? Besides, wasn't Hillary all about staying in the Senate (http://www.wowowow.com/post/hillary-ill-stay-senate-where-obama-will-need-me-124404) in the first place? Apparently you can't trust anything that comes out of her mouth.

And really, this does seem like an anachronistic law, doesn't it?
I'll loan you a bucket if you promise to share your cherries.

skunk

Dec 1, 2008, 02:10 PM

Surely a strict construction of this rule would debar any Senator or Representative from the Presidency itself if the emolument had increased during their tenure?

IJ Reilly

Dec 1, 2008, 02:17 PM

Surely a strict construction of this rule would debar any Senator or Representative from the Presidency itself if the emolument had increased during their tenure?

The language is "appointed to any civil office," which presumably does not include elected offices. If that were the case, virtually no member of Congress could run for the presidency since I think it's fair to assume that the salaries for these positions are often increased during any given session of Congress.

bradl

Dec 1, 2008, 02:20 PM

Really? When? Besides, wasn't Hillary all about staying in the Senate (http://www.wowowow.com/post/hillary-ill-stay-senate-where-obama-will-need-me-124404) in the first place? Apparently you can't trust anything that comes out of her mouth.

I'll loan you a bucket if you promise to share your cherries.

One thing you're forgetting. Obama has only nominated her. That does not mean that she has accepted the position, which would mean both saying 'yes', and confirmed through the Senate. Only then would she have gone back on what she said. Until then and until she has the office and title, she is still a US Senator.

BL.

BengalDuck

Dec 1, 2008, 02:25 PM

I doubt anyone cares, especially the constitutional law professor we just elected into office come January, but this might not be entirely legal:

source (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section6)

Cabinet members are paid according to Executive Schedule Level I(source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Cabinet)).

2007 Executive Level I salary - $186,000 (http://www.opm.gov/oca/07tables/html/ex.asp)
2008 Executive Level I salary - $191,300 (http://www.opm.gov/oca/08tables/html/ex.asp)

As Congress also passed a bill for increasing pay for these positions into 2009, it would seem as though Hillary is ineligible to jump horses in midstream as it were.

during the time for which he was elected

Bolded the operative word there. Hilary does not apply in this law. :P

mactastic

Dec 1, 2008, 03:52 PM

Really? When?
Well, the don't call it the Saxbe Fix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxbe_fix)for nothing. But Nixon isn't the only POTUS to have gotten appointees around this Constitutional requirement.

Besides, wasn't Hillary all about staying in the Senate (http://www.wowowow.com/post/hillary-ill-stay-senate-where-obama-will-need-me-124404) in the first place? Apparently you can't trust anything that comes out of her mouth.
LOL! You wouldn't have trusted a word from her mouth anyway, would you? Go ahead, be honest.

Also, isn't it a little presumptuous to say "yes I really WOULD like a cabinet position in Obama's administration" before it's been offered?

I'll loan you a bucket if you promise to share your cherries.
I suppose it's easy to avoid this rule if you appoint your Texas homeboys (and girls), and various horse lawyers and other assorted folks whose only qualifications are extreme personal and ideological loyalty to Dear Leader...

CorvusCamenarum

Dec 1, 2008, 04:36 PM

One thing you're forgetting. Obama has only nominated her. That does not mean that she has accepted the position, which would mean both saying 'yes', and confirmed through the Senate. Only then would she have gone back on what she said. Until then and until she has the office and title, she is still a US Senator.

BL.

According to the NYT, she'll take it if she can. link (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/21/clinton-to-accept-secretary-of-state-job/?hp)

LOL! You wouldn't have trusted a word from her mouth anyway, would you? Go ahead, be honest.
Well, if she said the sky was blue, and it was a sunny day and I had my windows open, then maybe.

I suppose it's easy to avoid this rule if you appoint your Texas homeboys (and girls), and various horse lawyers and other assorted folks whose only qualifications are extreme personal and ideological loyalty to Dear Leader...
You're assuming that I agreed with those decisions. I'm going to assume you know what assuming does so we'll be on equal footing.

mactastic

Dec 1, 2008, 04:39 PM

According to the NYT, she'll take it if she can. link (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/21/clinton-to-accept-secretary-of-state-job/?hp)

Well, if she said the sky was blue, and it was a sunny day and I had my windows open, then maybe.

You're assuming that I agreed with those decisions. I'm going to assume you know what assuming does so we'll be on equal footing.
And of course, you were assuming that I agreed with Hillary's decision to both say that she wanted to stay in the Senate, and to accept Obama's offer of SecState.

I'm going to assume that you also know what assuming does as well.

Nice try though. 'A' for effort.

MacNut

Dec 1, 2008, 06:01 PM

Just curious, the majority of people around here wanted Hillary to go away and never come back. What is your opinion of her becoming SOS.

mactastic

Dec 1, 2008, 06:22 PM

Just curious, the majority of people around here wanted Hillary to go away and never come back. What is your opinion of her becoming SOS.
I don't think it was his strongest choice from a purely political standpoint.

But Clinton can hardly criticize the Obama administration if she's a part of it, so I can see how Obama gains from that.

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer, right?

She'll do OK.

rdowns

Dec 1, 2008, 07:09 PM

Just curious, the majority of people around here wanted Hillary to go away and never come back. What is your opinion of her becoming SOS.

My state's gain is the nation's loss. :D

I think she'll be a very good SOS.

mgguy

Dec 2, 2008, 12:56 AM

Technically, she can become President if Obama, Bieden, Pelosi and Robert Byrd all die. The Secretary of State is 4th in line for Presidential succession.

They better watch their backs then.

Just curious, the majority of people around here wanted Hillary to go away and never come back. What is your opinion of her becoming SOS.

Hillary is no Condoleeza Rice. She has very little foreign policy experience except perhaps serving teas to foreign dignitaries as first lady or dodging sniper fire in countries like Bosnia. Really, though, her credentials pale in comparison to her SOS predecessors. Obama used poor judgement in this appointment I'm afraid.

skunk

Dec 2, 2008, 03:29 AM

Hillary is no Condoleeza Rice.If that means that she is not an oil company executive, a lying accessory to war crimes and a supporter of bankrupt and insincere policies towards Palestine, Russia, China and the rest, then that's all good. Obama will be the President, and last time I checked the Secretary of State does not pursue his or her own agenda without instructions from his or her superior.

synth3tik

Dec 2, 2008, 03:38 AM

I don't like this. Yes she has tons of experience with foreign relations, but she gets mad, too mad. Without the Bush cloud over her Rice is pretty good. I like her. Sadly my idea of a good Obama administration would catch some criticism, but I still think it would have been cool to have Rice as Secretary of State and Powell as the secretary of defense.

skunk

Dec 2, 2008, 03:45 AM

I still think it would have been cool to have Rice as Secretary of State and Powell as the secretary of defense.They are both hopelessly compromised.

mgguy

Dec 2, 2008, 03:42 PM

I don't like this. Yes she has tons of experience with foreign relations ...

Such as?

mactastic

Dec 2, 2008, 04:02 PM

Such as?
She's seen Russia from her plane?

synth3tik

Dec 2, 2008, 04:05 PM

Such as?

It's what her whole senate career has been about. She has been very active in things relating to foreign relations.

They are both hopelessly compromised.

They have both spoken out (to some degree) about the Bush admin. To the point that Rice said something along the lines of, "Once the Bush administration is over I can focus on what can really help the country" para-phasing here of course.

But, I do think your right. The stigma of the Bush admin has tarnished their political reps.

fivepoint

Dec 4, 2008, 02:22 PM

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec6

Constitution of the United States
Article1, Section 6
No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/04/clinton.eligible/index.html

In January, President Bush signed an executive order increasing the salary for the secretary of state and other Cabinet positions by $4,700. Hillary Clinton has been in the Senate since January 2001.

Obviously the current legislators will probably find a work-around here... probably by lowering the Sec. of State's salary again, but it certainly is interesting/funny! :D

és:

Dec 4, 2008, 02:27 PM

Out of interest, is there a list of salaries for high end government positions in the US?

EDIT: Also - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxbe_fix

Watabou

Dec 4, 2008, 02:30 PM

There is already a work around. It's called the Saxbe-fix.

fivepoint

Dec 4, 2008, 02:41 PM

Out of interest, is there a list of salaries for high end government positions in the US?

EDIT: Also - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxbe_fix

Sounds like a fantastic way to keep those salaries down... make sure we keep getting nominees from the legislature! Bam! We just saved the country $5000 every 4 years. :)

gauchogolfer

Dec 4, 2008, 02:48 PM

I don't think we use the word emoluments enough.

bradl

Dec 4, 2008, 02:50 PM

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec6

Constitution of the United States
Article1, Section 6

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/04/clinton.eligible/index.html

Please note that she has only been NOMINATED for the position of Secretary of State. She has not been confirmed nor has taken any such position. That will not happen until she has been confirmed for the position by the United States Senate:

LINK (http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec2)

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

Article 2, Section 2 of the same United States Constitution. Until Clinton has been confirmed, she is NOT in the position of Secretary of State, and is only a United States Senator. When she is confirmed for the position, she will resign as Senator, just as Obama and Biden will resign to take their duties as President and Vice President.

You really need to open your eyes and stop spreading FUD. And honestly, you're really making me ashamed to admit that I am from the Midwest (Nebraska; and you know what they've said about I.O.W.A. over the past 15 years), seeing how backwards and conspiratorial your posts are.

Open your eyes and, as En Vogue said not so long ago, Free Your Mind.

BL.

Much Ado

Dec 4, 2008, 03:01 PM

Not so fast, most legal scholars say.

In the past, lawmakers have found a way around the clause, with Congress changing the salary of the office in question back to what it originally was.

It happened when Ohio Sen. William Saxbe was named President Nixon's attorney general in 1974 and again when Texas Sen. Lloyd Bentsen became President Clinton's Treasury secretary in 1993.

"There are many ways around this problem," CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin noted. "One is for Congress to vote a lower salary. Another way is for Hillary Clinton simply to accept a lower salary. Another way is simply to ignore the problem on the idea that no one has the right, has the standing, to sue to stop her from being secretary of state.

"This is not going to be an impediment to her being secretary of state," Toobin argued.

Is this worth discussing?

mactastic

Dec 4, 2008, 03:21 PM

My prediction: Now that conservatives have re-discovered their love of strictly adhering to the Constitution, they will also re-discover their attraction to fiscal responsibility, and they will also re-discover their penchant for demanding investigations of the president, as well as re-asserting that obstructionism is good rather than bad as they have labeled it for the past 8 years.

I wonder how many of Obama's judicial nominees with get an immediate upperdownvote...