Safari Tops 7% Of Browser Market Share, Mac OS X On The Rise

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/01/safari-tops-7-of-browser-market-share-mac-os-x-on-the-rise/)

Apple's Safari web browser has crested 7% of worldwide browser market share (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=1) according to online research firm Net Applications.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/12/01/133336-safari7pct_400.png


While Safari's accomplishment is significant the biggest winner is clearly Mozilla's Firefox which crested 20% market share and climbed nearly an entire percentage point in one month. Meanwhile, Internet Explorer continues to bleed market share and now sits below 70%, a 1.5% decline from October 2008.

The news is similar for Microsoft and Apple's respective operating systems, with Microsoft Windows falling below 90% market share for the first time (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=9&qpdt=1&qpct=4&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=100&qpnp=20) according to Net Applications and Apple's Mac OS X approaching 9%.

Net Applications gathers their market share numbers differently (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/) from sales-based statistics compiled by firms like Gartner or IDC in that they use identifying information from internet browsers. Therefore, their statistics best describe the installed internet-using population.

We collect data from the browsers of site visitors to our exclusive on-demand network of live stats customers. The data is compiled from approximately 160 million visitors per month. The information published is an aggregate of the data from this network of hosted website statistics. The site unique visitor and referral information is summarized on a monthly basis.

Article Link: Safari Tops 7% Of Browser Market Share, Mac OS X On The Rise (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/01/safari-tops-7-of-browser-market-share-mac-os-x-on-the-rise/)

[flottenheimer]

I'm one of the Safari > Firefox switchers.

Nice to see that both Safari and Firefox enjoy a growing market-share. IE needs some serious competition. I'm looking forward to the day when the IE graph crosses a competing browser at the 50% market share mark.
:-)

[NeonKingKong]

pretty cool. I switched to firefox to escape the cataclysms of brushed metal but it doesn't handle tabs as well so i will be switching back to safari.

[xUKHCx]

I am guessing that this includes Mobile Safari on the iPhone/touch. Good news for those who use the iPhone/touch as perhaps developers will take more time in testing.

[dukebound85]

wow do that many people still use IE? even on windows, everyone recommends firefox

[kinless]

As a web developer, I'm just happy that IE6 is getting down near the 20% mark and falling. I'm hoping the new computers coming in as Christmas presents make that number drop even more. It won't be long before I cut off support for IE6 completely.

[Applepi]

I'm still baffled to how people are actually satisfied with IE.

[bolibic]

<rant>
You! IE users! I know you're there :mad: ! You enjoy browsing the web with your so called browsers but you don't have to suffer programming on them.

25% of the Web still uses IE6 and I guess they all are Windows XP users scared to connect their pirated windows to Windows update.

And in a while we will have to suffer IE8 "standards-my-grandma-rest-in-peace" compatible.

Whatever is better than IE. If you use Safari (in this case because the news are about safari)... thank you from a poor and humble web developer.
</rant>
:apple:

[Kilamite]

wow does that many people still use IE? even on windows, everyone recommends firefox

Computer illiterate people who buy a PC and just use it will be using IE. They make up a large sum of that I'd guess.

[amac4me]

Mac OS market share as measured by Net Applications has reached 8.87%.

[bolibic]

wow does that many people still use IE? even on windows, everyone recommends firefox

In one of my sites:

99% Windows
1% Mac : 0.8% Safari, 0.2% Firefox


In the windows land

0.6% Chrome
0.8% Opera
0.8% Safari
24% Firefox
25% IE6
47% IE7

[xUKHCx]

Computer illiterate people who buy a PC and just use it will be using IE. They make up a large sum of that I'd guess.

Actually I know quite a few people who can drive a PC just fine and I tried getting them on FF but they got annoyed at the slow startup speed in comparision and so went back to IE7.

[guzhogi]

In Safari (and I think FireFox as well), you can set it to "pretend" to be another browser. As in the information the browser sends to the web server that says, basically, "Hi! I'm Safari/Firefox/IE!" can be changed to another browser. Some web developers do this to see how web sites would react to different browsers. I wonder if this has anything to do w/ the increase in marketshare.

[flottenheimer]

Check the quoted stats and many more here: Market Share
(http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=1)

[OriginalMacRat]

Safari pegs the CPU on PPC for no apparent reason.

Firefox & Camino are MUCH less CPU intensive.

[AppleMojo]

pretty cool. I switched to firefox to escape the cataclysms of brushed metal but it doesn't handle tabs as well so i will be switching back to safari.

lol

Isn't FF3 brushed metal? ;-)

[memco]

Man that graph makes me weep. I wouldn't care about IE so much if it wasn't such a pain.

[Westside guy]

Actually I know quite a few people who can drive a PC just fine and I tried getting them on FF but they got annoyed at the slow startup speed in comparision and so went back to IE7.

They should compare the page rendering times of IE versus FF as they go, and see at what point it makes up for the longer launch time. :D

[flottenheimer]

lol
Isn't FF3 brushed metal? ;-)

Nope.

http://www.stupendous.net/files/ff3b4mac.png

[hoolese]

Firefox is OSS, while safari is of course not and run by apple. Why couldn't apple let firefox be instead of acting all MS and trying to battle them. Its not like Apple is playing fair, either, they are not allowing other browsers on their iPhone. Microsoft was attacked for preloading IE on windows computers, apple wont even allow competition.

[FrenchKheldar]

wow do that many people still use IE? even on windows, everyone recommends firefox

I'm still baffled somebody would use the default color scheme from Excel on Windows to write a serious article. Really, you couldn't spend 30 s to remove the ugly gray background and the pukey pink??? Some Windows users will always surprise us I guess :)

[Sky Blue]

Why couldn't apple let firefox be instead of acting all MS and trying to battle them.

Some people much prefer Safari? Why shouldn't Apple make their own browser?

[motulist]

pretty cool. I switched to firefox to escape the cataclysms of brushed metal but it doesn't handle tabs as well so i will be switching back to safari.

Are you still on Tiger? Because in Leopard brushed metal is gone.

[BornAgainMac]

IE is a surprise. I didn't know people still use it. I suppose businesses are stuck using it since they still use Blackberries, Dells, MS Exchange, run Microsoft Access and run Windows so it is consistent.

Windows having that much marketshare is understandable since it seems like every Mac has a copy running on it either with VM or Bootcamp. Mac users love running every app under the sun possible on their Macs.

[vansouza]

How can the numbers of users of IE ever drop, by a lot, when MS requires it to update their OS? I need to find out what my sister uses, she is on XP. She is typical of users who buy a system and just use what is on it.

Count me a Safari user!!:apple::cool::eek::D

[TheAngusBurger]

I find that a lot of people can't comprehend the fact that IE is a browser, and simply think of it as "The Internet". They think that switching browser is the same as switching ISPs and will cost them money. If the graph results were just from those even slightly computer literate, I'd imagine Firefox would be in the lead.

[Biolizard]

Nice to see the cross-platform era is still coming to fruition.

[rhpenguin]

I stopped using Safari once I upgraded to 10.5 and it kept crashing. FF3 FTW!

[ZiggyPastorius]

I can't even believe Opera is not even on that list. I've always said that Opera is a lot like Apple, innovative, but small in popularity. I guess it's more true than I realised. A lot of these features Safari, Firefox and IE enjoy (such as tabbed browsing, mouse gestures in Firefox's case, Password remembrance, saved sessions, et cetera) are enjoyed because of Opera. Screw these wannabe browsers.

[hoolese]

Some people much prefer Safari? Why shouldn't Apple make their own browser?

My point was that microsoft did the same thing, and was slammed by many in the apple community for unfair practices. Now apple is doing the same thing. Safari is just a closed software copy of firefox

[Westside guy]

Safari is just a closed software copy of firefox

Would you mind elaborating on why you think this? They don't even use the same rendering engine - Safari uses the open-source Webkit engine, while Mozilla uses their own open-source Gecko engine.

[gnasher729]

Firefox is OSS, while safari is of course not and run by apple. Why couldn't apple let firefox be instead of acting all MS and trying to battle them. Its not like Apple is playing fair, either, they are not allowing other browsers on their iPhone. Microsoft was attacked for preloading IE on windows computers, apple wont even allow competition.

Nokia will be surprised to hear that WebKit is not Open Source.

[nick9191]

My point was that microsoft did the same thing, and was slammed by many in the apple community for unfair practices. Now apple is doing the same thing. Safari is just a closed software copy of firefox
Maybe they were slammed by some. But the actual reason they were sued was for making the web browser completely unremovable by arguably going as far to actually make it one of the core technologies.

I still can't believe they didn't release a new version of IE for 6 years. Or a new version of Windows come to that. XP has held back technology by forcing developers to code for such a obsolete legacy platform.

[oticon6]

Firefox is OSS, while safari is of course not and run by apple. Why couldn't apple let firefox be instead of acting all MS and trying to battle them. Its not like Apple is playing fair, either, they are not allowing other browsers on their iPhone. Microsoft was attacked for preloading IE on windows computers, apple wont even allow competition.

....

Safari and Firefox are not "battling"... they're completely different. Firefox, up until recently (and in my opinion, still today), has not been well maintained on the Mac. It's slow, ugly and really nothing special. Safari is fast, sleek and gets the job done. Firefox has the advantage of plugins and user contribution, and those that prefer it will download it. I personally prefer the simplicity and faster load times/javascript. :)

With regards to the iPhone comment... the only offer so far has been from Opera, which caches EVERYTHING you do on their servers, including secure transactions. No thanks! Opera Mini is a useless pile of junk made for old mobile phones, and that's where it belongs. The anti-competitive nature is debatable, and to be honest I think it's better that way, because it means Apple has to cater for THE WHOLE iPhone community and build a *complete* browser, not just something that has enough features for business people (the ones that will be giving them the easy money). The App Store should've shown you by now that the majority of third party developers are rubbish, and an open store is a stupid idea on an embedded system.

Now to Microsoft! The reason people had such an issue with Windows 98 is because IE became integral to the operating system and could NOT be removed. It had nothing to do with "packaging a browser with the OS". Think about it... how the hell are people going to DOWNLOAD Firefox if OS developers aren't allowed to package a browser?

Edit:

Oh, and about the article.. good news :) I don't care which browser makes it big, as long as IE tumbles down. IE6 is pathetic, IE7 is... mmmm... IE8 should be bearable. Soon web development will no longer be hindered the way it has for the last 10 years. And with Safari and Chrome working to make Javascript amazing, exciting things are just around the corner :D

[ZiggyPastorius]

With regards to the iPhone comment... the only offer so far has been from Opera, which caches EVERYTHING you do on their servers, including secure transactions. No thanks! Opera Mini is a useless pile of junk made for old mobile phones, and that's where it belongs. The anti-competitive nature is debatable, and to be honest I think it's better that way, because it means Apple has to cater for THE WHOLE iPhone community and build a *complete* browser, not just something that has enough features for business people (the ones that will be giving them the easy money). The App Store should've shown you by now that the majority of third party developers are rubbish, and an open store is a stupid idea on an embedded system.

Wrong. I forget what page, but in the thread about Opera being in the app store, somebody explained why the whole "Opera has hold of all your secure transactions and info" stuff is false. Plus, you're wrong about Opera Mini. Opera Mini is one of the most stable and enjoyable mobile browsers out there, and is used in the Wii and the DS as well. Opera has long been a little-known player in the Browser field, despite being responsible for a majority of the things people enjoy in other browsers (see above).

Edit: Nick9191's link below has some information about said issue.

[elppa]

Nokia will be surprised to hear that WebKit is not Open Source.

And Google, and Adobe, and RIM, and Samsung, and…

[nick9191]

Firefox is OSS, while safari is of course not and run by apple. Why couldn't apple let firefox be instead of acting all MS and trying to battle them. Its not like Apple is playing fair, either, they are not allowing other browsers on their iPhone. Microsoft was attacked for preloading IE on windows computers, apple wont even allow competition.
Apple will allow other browsers on their phone.

If your referring to Opera, the Opera Mini browser was not ready for the iPhone, it was not rejected.

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/11/02/opera-mini-not-rejected/

[Electrolytic]

My vote is for 1 Firefox, 2nd Chrome... I do not like the tabbed functionality on Safari (it opens a new browser instead of a tab) I know you can hold the "ctrl" to open in a new tab, but I don't want to... The only nice thing I can say about Safari is it look clean....

Also the last time I used Safari it did not do the suggested search in the upper right goolge search bar..Another dislike...

Firefox is the best because of add ons like adblock+...

Just my thoughts....

[rockosmodurnlif]

So this ranking includes mobile browsing, so Safari on in the iPhone is included?

[Sayer]

Interestingly Safari is only part of the use of the WebKit "core" of Safari.

A slew of service-oriented products for AT&T internet offerings are now using a webkit-based app for the Mac support (I should know, I created the custom web browser).

So kudos to Apple's WebKit team for making such a nice platform to build apps on top of, including Safari - even tho Apple managers like to hide specific bits to keep anyone from fully competing with Safari in the Mac browser space using the same engine.

[bananabar]

Thing is, what constitutes 'market share'?

I downloaded Firefox, used it about four times and I don't think I've even used it now for about six months.

Is it number of downloads or useage? We may never know...

[xUKHCx]

Thing is, what constitutes 'market share'?

I downloaded Firefox, used it about four times and I don't think I've even used it now for about six months.

Is it number of downloads or useage? We may never know...

It is not going ot be 100% accurate however it is compiled from the actual browsers people use to visit a sample of websites

We use a unique methodology for collecting this data. We collect data from the browsers of site visitors to our exclusive on-demand network of live stats customers. The data is compiled from approximately 160 million visitors per month. The information published is an aggregate of the data from this network of hosted website statistics. The site unique visitor and referral information is summarized on a monthly basis.

[elppa]

Thing is, what constitutes 'market share'?

I downloaded Firefox, used it about four times and I don't think I've even used it now for about six months.

Is it number of downloads or useage? We may never know...

These particular stats are based on usage.

[iReality85]

wow do that many people still use IE? even on windows, everyone recommends firefox

It's called the corporate environment.

[fendol]

You know, this is something that I have been having some interest in.

For my understanding these are general statistics from the web, some sites have a greater percentage of firefox users than IE simply because of the subject of the website, or its niche. A website about gaming or consumer electronics in general would probably have a side by side firefox and IE usage (or firefox winning it) and the rest going to Opera, Safari and the rest :) :apple: http://seoagora.com/img/589/d08l1104oulu/smiley2.gifhttp://seoagora.com/img/308/s08e1024rvou/champagne.gifhttp://seoagora.com/img/1261/v08t1201sxfb/cheers.gif

[Mr. Fong]

Could someone PLEASE tell me what the advantage of Firefox is over Safari? On both of my macs, FF runs and loads pages incredibly slower than Safari.

[surferfromuk]

Windows 89.7% and falling..

[sizzle]

This is from the last month from my site.

Internet Explorer 45.17%
Firefox 40.68%
Safari 7.52%
Chrome 3.61%
Opera 2.01%
Mozilla Compatible 0.35%
Mozilla 0.34%
Camino 0.16%
SeaMonkey 0.07%

[synth3tik]

Firefox is currently still better. Hopefully with increased market share more sites will adapt to Safari and hopefully Apple can get it to stop hanging on start ups.

[Dagless]

I'm not keen on Safari XP at all and got sick of IE too. Now my windows partition is using Firefox which is so hideous and nowhere near the speed of Safari OSX - it's still probably the best browser for IE.

But on OSX's side I'm all for Safari. I don't care about silly plugins, I just want speed.

[elppa]

I'm not keen on Safari XP at all and got sick of IE too. Now my windows partition is using Firefox which is so hideous and nowhere near the speed of Safari OSX - it's still probably the best browser for IE.

Tried Chrome?

[MacFly123]

Computer illiterate people who buy a PC and just use it will be using IE. They make up a large sum of that I'd guess.

Amen. These kinds of people don't even know what a web browser is, they just think that IE is the internet lol.

On a larger scale, it is the same reason that so many people use Windows, because that is what comes pre-installed and they are ignorant of anything better! Those that see the light buy Macs and use Safari and lead a much more satisfying and hassle free life :D

A person is smart, people are stupid!

[eto]

So why are the W3C (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp) numbers so different?

At least javascript usage is up.

[Sijmen]

So why are the W3C (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp) numbers so different?

The W3C is a site aimed at a very specific audience. Just like MacRumors.

[terryzx]

Likely get a bigger share if it would STOP CRASHING 10 times a day :mad:

[pepp5]

So why are the W3C (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp) numbers so different?


That's not a site for the W3C. That's w3schools.com, which has no connection to the w3 (w3c). W3schools.com is made by a consulting firm in Norway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W3c
http://www.w3.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W3schools
http://www.w3schools.com/about/about_refsnes.asp

[twoodcc]

glad to see safari and Mac OS X on the rise. not that I hate microsoft, i just don't like to see one company dominating everything and taking away choices. it's good to see them finally falling a little.

coming from someone who is typing this in Vista, on my macbook pro :)

[slughead]

There's nothing wrong with IE 7... well not that much wrong with it.

As a former web designer, I found IE was better at some things, worse at others. It's just another browser, they all have their quirks.

Example: FTP anyone?

[plinden]

I find the graphs at the end of this article (http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/01/mac-internet-share-hits-record-882-windows-drops-below-90/) (commenting on the 8.87% Mac share) more interesting.

It shows daily usage of OS X, with definite peaks at the weekends. The last data point is from Saturday Nov 29, showing 10.25% OS X share, compared to 8% on November 26 (the Wednesday before Thanksgiving for those not in the US)

[slughead]

lol

Isn't FF3 brushed metal? ;-)

no

Some people much prefer Safari? Why shouldn't Apple make their own browser?

They have better things to do... Besides, they could make their own browser: they could make firefox for iPhone...

[Lone Deranger]

Hear hear! I much prefer Safari over FF. So I'm glad Apple is fully behind it.
Never been big on any Mozilla product to be honest. There's something inherently Linux-ey about their products that I dislike.

disclaimer: yes.. that's just an opinion.

Some people much prefer Safari? Why shouldn't Apple make their own browser?

[Westside guy]

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/12/01/133336-safari7pct_400.png

As this shocking graph indicates...

(Obligatory Futurama reference)

[elppa]

I find the graphs at the end of this article (http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/01/mac-internet-share-hits-record-882-windows-drops-below-90/) (commenting on the 8.87% Mac share) more interesting.

It shows daily usage of OS X, with definite peaks at the weekends. The last data point is from Saturday Nov 29, showing 10.25% OS X share, compared to 8% on November 26 (the Wednesday before Thanksgiving for those not in the US)

Suggesting people choose use Macintosh at home and have to use PCs at work?

Not unexpected, but nevertheless interesting find to see it quantified.

Good find. :)

[Sky Blue]

Hear hear! I much prefer Safari over FF. So I'm glad Apple is fully behind it.
Never been big on any Mozilla product to be honest. There's something inherently Linux-ey about their products that I dislike.

disclaimer: yes.. that's just an opinion.

Yeah, I just can't get into FireFox ... Thunderbird either.

[miiles]

I'm so happy that IE use is going down.

[Ademius]

On a larger scale, it is the same reason that so many people use Windows, because that is what comes pre-installed and they are ignorant of anything better! Those that see the light buy Macs and use Safari and lead a much more satisfying and hassle free life :D

I just got to say, you really shot yourself in the foot with that argument. Mac OS X is what comes preinstalled with a mac, and in Mac OS X the default browser that comes with the system is Safari.

So how are Mac users using Safari not as ignorant as the windows users, using your own argument? They are both using what just came with the hardware they bought.

[RedBull27]

Nope.

http://www.stupendous.net/files/ff3b4mac.png

Since when is Safari brushed metal anymore either? Apple have phased out brush metal completely. I don't have any metal apps on 10.5.5 ;)

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3489/picture1hy2.png (http://imageshack.us)

By the way, the reason I use Safari is because it is faster than Firefox. Firefox just takes a metric ass load of time to load. Just saying.

[rockosmodurnlif]

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/12/01/133336-safari7pct_400.png

As this shocking graph indicates...

(Obligatory Futurama reference)
I don't think Futurama references are obligatory.

[SactoGuy18]

How can the numbers of users of IE ever drop, by a lot, when MS requires it to update their OS? I need to find out what my sister uses, she is on XP. She is typical of users who buy a system and just use what is on it.


If you're running Windows Vista or the upcoming Windows 7, you no longer need a web browser. Windows Update is now is own separate program that no longer requires a web browser to do the update.

[Quillz]

Some people much prefer Safari? Why shouldn't Apple make their own browser?
Some people prefer Internet Explorer. Why shouldn't Microsoft continue to improve their own web browser?

Contrary to popular belief around here, you aren't a bad person if you use Internet Explorer. You won't go to Hell, and Apple won't go out of business. Don't let people try to make you feel bad if you're an Internet Explorer user. If you don't want to use Firefox, don't let people goad you into using it. If Internet Explorer is your thing and it works for you, then that's all that matters.

[Quillz]

Hear hear! I much prefer Safari over FF. So I'm glad Apple is fully behind it.
Never been big on any Mozilla product to be honest. There's something inherently Linux-ey about their products that I dislike.

disclaimer: yes.. that's just an opinion.
And yet there's nothing inherently Linux-ey about Mac OS X, a product that even Steve Jobs himself has said is "very Linux-like, very much so?"

[Quillz]

Amen. These kinds of people don't even know what a web browser is, they just think that IE is the internet lol.

On a larger scale, it is the same reason that so many people use Windows, because that is what comes pre-installed and they are ignorant of anything better! Those that see the light buy Macs and use Safari and lead a much more satisfying and hassle free life :D

A person is smart, people are stupid!
Yes, my life is so much better now that I own an iMac. Apparently, buying a Mac makes people blind Apple fanboys who are either very unintelligent, ignorant, or both.

[Maxington]

Down, down, down in a burning ring of fire... IE

[MagnusVonMagnum]

The question for me is whether that percentage is the result of iPhone and iPod Touch users (who have no choice in what browser they get to use on it) or if those numbers are PC and Mac computers using Safari. After all, the browser on the iPhone is also a version of Safari. Frankly, forcing users to use Safari on the iPhone is not the most legitimate way to get market share, IMO. It's not much different than Microsoft trying to stop Netscape from being pre-installed on various manufacturers computers in the 1990's except here you thus far don't even get an option after the fact to install say Opera on it if you so desired. I realize there are conflicting stories on whether Opera actually applied or whether Apple simply told them not to bother. A similar situation exists regarding Flash and Adobe. Either way, the fact remains, I have to use Safari on my iPod Touch or not use it to browse at all. If there were a version of Firefox for it, I would probably use it instead as I use Firefox on both my two Macs and my PC running both Windows XP and Linux.

[roach]

Apple needs to do more tricks like the QT upgrade that also included Safari.

[knightlie]

pretty cool. I switched to firefox to escape the cataclysms of brushed metal but it doesn't handle tabs as well so i will be switching back to safari.

Did you check out the Tab Mix Plus plugin? I find its tab handling far better than Safari's, and it's extremely configurable.


That graph is interesting - something seems to have happened since October to cause a shift in numbers. I wonder if the new MacBooks had an effect?

[knightlie]

Apple needs to do more tricks like the QT upgrade that also included Safari.

Actually a lot of people thought that was pretty underhanded of them. There was a big fuss when they did that, and I tend to agree - disingenuous behaviour doesn't go down well. Let the browser stand on its merits.


By the way, the reason I use Safari is because it is faster than Firefox. Firefox just takes a metric ass load of time to load. Just saying.

While I agree FF is slow to load, I never understand why people use this as an issue to not use it. It's not as if you load it every few minutes, my browser is running all the time. I only have to start it when I reboot or if I need to close FF when I need the RAM, and a few extra seconds while I'm probably doing something else anyway seems neither here nor there. IMO, of course.

[Piplodocus]

Since IE is still 70% market share according to this, maybe Apple might like to make MobileMe compliant with IE7? Are they waiting for IE8? Or just purposefully being anti-microsoft?

This is coming from me on IE7 at work, where Me mail is slow as anything, and the calandar is just unuseable. The idea of a web-based mail/calendar is that you can use it anywhere: work, internet cafes, any pc or mac you come across. Currently it doesn't work properly on 70% of machines which you might not have the rights to go installing other browsers on. :mad:

P.S. No I don't use IE at home, but that's a choice I'm free to make, unlike millions of PCs where you have to use what's already on them.

[n8mac]

Since when is Safari brushed metal anymore either? Apple have phased out brush metal completely.

[snip]

Not true. Safari 3.1.x still uses brushed metal on 10.4.x

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m389/Mrn8mac/Safari-Tiger.jpg

I like it. Gives it personality. If I wanted just gray I would go back to OS 9 :eek:

[gjw4u]

Nice to see that IE usage is on the decline and other browsers like Safari & Firefox are increasing their share. Anybody now how many are using Google's Chrome browser these days?

;-> gjw

[SimonMW]

The problem isn't so much IE as a whole, but IE6. IE7 is much better, though it still has its quirks in terms of how it inteprets things.

IE6 reduces accessibility. Each and every time I have tried to design a fully fluid website layout with CSS I have always had to revert back to a fixed width design always because of IE6's inability to understand even the most basic CSS functions properly.

The trouble is that there are companies out there still using Windows 98 and many of those companies have to use Microsoft software. They will not install any third party stuff like Firefox.

On the other hand we could ask the question of why such a company needs to view the internet for anything other than the most basic corporate websites. If they were that cutting edge they would have updated their systems in the first place.

[batchtaster]

Could someone PLEASE tell me what the advantage of Firefox is over Safari? On both of my macs, FF runs and loads pages incredibly slower than Safari.

Ditto. Although FF3 is better than FF2, Firefox still feels far heavier than Safari. I don't want thousands of extensions either. I just want a streamlined, fast browser (and an adblocker) for the actual Web, rather than a Swiss army knife that handles a bottomless pit of periphery. And I don't get that in Firefox. Safari doesn't crash on me any more than Firefox does.

BTW, this brushed-metal vs not-brushed metal thing is stupid. In that one attribute, Firefox 3 and Safari 3 are the same as each other on 10.4, and they're the same as each other on 10.5.

In any case, it's good to see FF and Safari eating into IE's monopoly, and Mac OS X doing likewise to Windows.

[Wkaemena]

here some numbers of this Website (http://www.worldwidepanorama.com/)

June, 1, 2007 - Dec.1, 2007
IE - 72%
FF - 16%
Safari - Mac 5.2%
FF - Mac 2.2%
based on 570000 visits

June, 1, 2008 - Dec.1, 2008
IE - 59%
FF - 22.4%
Safari - Mac 7.7%
FF - Mac 3.8%
based on 243000 visits

[vermonter16]

wow do that many people still use IE? even on windows, everyone recommends firefox


My husband still browses with explorer...he says he hates firefox but for the life of me I can't figure out why. That's what I browse with...wonder what he's going to do when the new imac arrives at the end of the week :)

[jellomizer]

I am happy to see IE taking a noes dive. IE is a real pain to develop for even with .NET you try to follow the standards and things just do go as they are documented. Safari is fairly good (but still has some Javascript fixes) And Firefox is very nice to develop for. So nice that I can't use it because I spend so much extra time trying to get the other browsers to work afterwords. So I tend to develop for IE and then the apps normally display similar across other browsers.

[chagla]

real men use Opera.
FF copies tons of features from Opera.

if you've never heard of or tried it yet, go here. http://opera.com

it's available for every conceiveable platform, including mobile devices.

[Dagless]

Opera... I tried Opera, liked the auto-refresh feature. But I found it a little clunky too but nowhere near as bad as Firefox.

Tried Chrome?

I might give that a try actually. As other users have said here - Firefox is just too big and busy. I want something light on my system and it sounds like Chrome might just be the right browser for XP.

[Macmel]

I guess: Apple computer parket share is about 10%, but browser marketshare is about 7%. Assuming that every Apple computer connects to the internet (probably very close to the truth), that means that about 30% of the Apple users don't like Apple browser and take the time to download FF or something else (there's no current version of IE for Mac right now). If you think of it, that's more people that the ones that don't like IE percentage-wise. And take into account that there is a current version of safari for PC but there's about 10% computers (apple share) that cannot run IE even if they wanted to. So big failure Apple...

In my case, I use both, but 95% of the time is FF what I use.
Now we can start with the crap that IE is bad (just because is MS and by definition it has to be bad), but the truth is that statistics show it is not more insecure than FF and honestly, I have never had any problems using it (sometimes, under Vista, it actually behaves better than FF, for example, it loads youtube videos faster in my case as compared side to side). I prefer FF both in Mac and PC because I am more used to it. Safari I don't like it at all, and the PC version could not be uglier and less intuitive (I actually uninstalled it after a few minutes).

[JohnnyLemonhead]

Interesting, given the fact that Safari is perhaps the least functional browser out there.

[BigD58]

So let me get this straight...If you buy a $250 Macworld ticket you get to watch steve talk or are you in a separate room with a big screen?

[jbernie]

wow do that many people still use IE? even on windows, everyone recommends firefox

I'm still baffled to how people are actually satisfied with IE.

Computer illiterate people who buy a PC and just use it will be using IE. They make up a large sum of that I'd guess.

PC user since 92, used to use Netscape, then moved over to IE, have on occasion had newer Netscape versions and Firefox installed, just don't see the big deal, it works for what I need which overall isn't that much. Access web mail, reads news, pay some bills.

Some of us just don't get on the you must hate anything Microsoft releases bandwagon.

[sangosimo]

If you don't use plugins there is no compelling reason to switch to firefox; IE8 is also nice to have around for the stuff the ietab can't handle.

[jzuena]

....
Think about it... how the hell are people going to DOWNLOAD Firefox if OS developers aren't allowed to package a browser?


ftp. How do you think people got NCSA Mosaic back in the day? :D

[MacFly123]

I just got to say, you really shot yourself in the foot with that argument. Mac OS X is what comes preinstalled with a mac, and in Mac OS X the default browser that comes with the system is Safari.

So how are Mac users using Safari not as ignorant as the windows users, using your own argument? They are both using what just came with the hardware they bought.

Yes that is true and I see your point, but the fact is that what I said is pretty much true. People CHOOSE to switch to Macs KNOWING that OS X runs on them because Apple's hardware and software combination is far superior. Mac users are pretty much very aware of what PCs and Windows have to offer, whereas the average ignorant PC user doesn't know any better. When they finally see and experience the alternative with Macs and OS X they choose to switch too unless they are the nerds that like to hotrod and os and hardware lol. But we are talking average Joe computer user here.

And side note, Macs can run Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux and Mac users are MUCH MORE LIKELY to use an alternative browser like FireFox as opposed to the average PC user that doesn't even know what a browser is and thinks that IE is the internet lol.

I use Macs and OS X and Safari because I find them to be infinitely superior in synergy of hardware and software combined and user friendliness, creative ease, interface, cool fun features, speed, safety, beautiful design, etc. etc. etc.

My opinion, but I hope you understand the point I am trying to make which I believe is very valid and true.

[MacFly123]

Yes, my life is so much better now that I own an iMac. Apparently, buying a Mac makes people blind Apple fanboys who are either very unintelligent, ignorant, or both.

I happen to own Macs and am very intelligent and aware, it is because of that that I have come to appreciate Macs so much :rolleyes:

And the fanboy comment, I don't ever dismiss a product or technology unless I have used it and experienced it first hand with an open mind and yes, I love Apple products because of all the products I have used I find them to be the most fun, easiest to use, most capable and creative and beautifully designed in pretty much every aspect. :D

Oops, I didn't realize I was double posting in the same thread, sorry mod!

[derryquinn]

The reason, I think IE is so good at keeping users, is that it has the word "Internet" in it.

I have tried explaining browsers to lots of people (basic computer users) and they don't want to switch.

I did get one person to switch to Safari on Windows recently, my friends sister.

Conversation goes like this:

Me: I see you have an iTunes update
Her: I do?
Me: Yeah, look "Apple Software Update" *goes to do exposé on her dell, curses self*
Her: I always just "x" out of that
Me: Nah, iTunes 8 is pretty cool, hey it comes with Safari too, will I get that as well?
Her: ...
Me: It's an Internet Browser.
Her: I already have Internet Browser (Meaning Internet Explorer)
Me: It's different, try it out, I'll download it here.

~~~Roughly 1 Week Later~~~

Her: *Walks in to me and friend* Oh, Derry, that Safari you got me is really
Me: Oh?
Her: Yeah, It's much faster than the Internet.
Me: *Puzzled* There's only one Internet...
Her: I mean the other Internet, silly!
Me: *Gives up and doesn't bother*


Am I the only one with this situation?

[~NeonFire372~]

Safari is a nice browser but I prefer Google Chrome. I wish they'd release it for Mac. :(

[rasmasyean]

<rant>
You! IE users! I know you're there :mad: ! You enjoy browsing the web with your so called browsers but you don't have to suffer programming on them.


I think "IE users" are enjoying all the games rather than browsing the web. Those net applications users in that graph are prolly mostly ppl paying their bills. So...naturally, those are the ppl you want to "program" for! ;)

[rasmasyean]

Computer illiterate people who buy a PC and just use it will be using IE. They make up a large sum of that I'd guess.

Enterprise browsers are primarily IE.
People are used to IE so they don't bother with the trouble of switching to another browser.

But it IS true that most sites consider IE as their first and foremost "must work good on it" browser. So if you visit various types of sites with rarer services, you will find that non-IE browsers might not work...even FireFox.

[rasmasyean]

Actually I know quite a few people who can drive a PC just fine and I tried getting them on FF but they got annoyed at the slow startup speed in comparision and so went back to IE7.

That's weird. FF is supposed to be less resource-ive that IE7. Did you install a bunch of FF Add-ons for them?

[rasmasyean]

Nope.

http://www.stupendous.net/files/ff3b4mac.png

OMG, you're a Digger? Now we know not to trust anything you say. :p

[rasmasyean]

Firefox is OSS, while safari is of course not and run by apple. Why couldn't apple let firefox be instead of acting all MS and trying to battle them. Its not like Apple is playing fair, either, they are not allowing other browsers on their iPhone. Microsoft was attacked for preloading IE on windows computers, apple wont even allow competition.

Didn't MS get away with it ultimately though. They just got a slap on the wrist and a "we're watching you" threat.

So now, Vista has bundled defragger, RAM Disk cacher, and Security Suite...but just a bit more "careful" about it. hehe

[Quillz]

I happen to own Macs and am very intelligent and aware, it is because of that that I have come to appreciate Macs so much :rolleyes:

And the fanboy comment, I don't ever dismiss a product or technology unless I have used it and experienced it first hand with an open mind and yes, I love Apple products because of all the products I have used I find them to be the most fun, easiest to use, most capable and creative and beautifully designed in pretty much every aspect. :D

Oops, I didn't realize I was double posting in the same thread, sorry mod!
There's nothing wrong with liking Apple's products, and really, you should like all the products you buy. But assuming that Mac users are somehow more intelligent, more enlightened or even just lead better lives is exactly why the Mac user stereotype is one of elitism, snobbishness and arrogance. Using a Mac does not make you any better or worse than someone who uses a PC.

[Ademius]

Yes that is true and I see your point, but the fact is that what I said is pretty much true. People CHOOSE to switch to Macs KNOWING that OS X runs on them because Apple's hardware and software combination is far superior. Mac users are pretty much very aware of what PCs and Windows have to offer, whereas the average ignorant PC user doesn't know any better. When they finally see and experience the alternative with Macs and OS X they choose to switch too unless they are the nerds that like to hotrod and os and hardware lol. But we are talking average Joe computer user here.

And side note, Macs can run Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux and Mac users are MUCH MORE LIKELY to use an alternative browser like FireFox as opposed to the average PC user that doesn't even know what a browser is and thinks that IE is the internet lol.

I use Macs and OS X and Safari because I find them to be infinitely superior in synergy of hardware and software combined and user friendliness, creative ease, interface, cool fun features, speed, safety, beautiful design, etc. etc. etc.

My opinion, but I hope you understand the point I am trying to make which I believe is very valid and true.

One of Apple's major selling points is design and ease of use, so what's to say that mac users can't be just as ignorant (or more so) just to avoid problems coming from computer illiteracy and have a nice looking computer? There's nothing about buying a Mac that automatically makes you tech-savvy.

PCs are (currently) much better at gaming and business integration, and having several manufacturers on the pc market, you get more choices to fit your own needs in terms of hardware, form and function (e.g. Tablets, netbooks, midrange headless tower). Buying PCs will almost always get you more value for the money in terms of hardware, so it might just be a rational decision buying a PC for most.

But the PC user stereotype you describe is very much existant, I know plenty of people just like that, buying PCs just because that's what they're used to and that's the cheapest option, them not wanting to pay more than they have to just to use it. So I'd say the reason average Joe computer consumer chooses PC is the cost. Apple is a high margin company, many PC manufacturers are not.

Sure, I get many people switching to Macs right now because of the obsolete state of XP and the Vista failboat and who knows what the future holds... Snow Leopard with OpenCL and Windows 7 as a viable successor to XP or perhaps even Linux gaining popularity due to exposure from the netbook market? Time will tell.

For what it's worth, some of those average Joe computer consumers really baffle me. I'm having a hard time understanding how you cannot be able to comprehend or want to comprehend the very basic usage of something that's so integrated in your life.

TL;DR: I also see your point, but buying a PC instead of a Mac can very much so be a conscious decision taking cost, choice and function needs into account.

[Airforcekid]

wow do that many people still use IE? even on windows, everyone recommends firefox
Goes to show 90 percent of users just use a computer they dont even look into other browsers because they dont know about them. On mac go Safari on a pc I go Firefox safari is unstable on a PC perfect on a mac!:apple:

[rasmasyean]

There's nothing wrong with liking Apple's products, and really, you should like all the products you buy. But assuming that Mac users are somehow more intelligent, more enlightened or even just lead better lives is exactly why the Mac user stereotype is one of elitism, snobbishness and arrogance. Using a Mac does not make you any better or worse than someone who uses a PC.

Where did you get that? I always thought Mac users were imbeciles who can't use more than one button on a mouse. :p

[Quillz]

Where did you get that? I always thought Mac users were imbeciles who can't use more than one button on a mouse. :p
That was prior to 2005. Once the Mighty Mouse was introduced, Mac users became arrogant elitists.

[rasmasyean]

The question for me is whether that percentage is the result of iPhone and iPod Touch users (who have no choice in what browser they get to use on it) or if those numbers are PC and Mac computers using Safari. After all, the browser on the iPhone is also a version of Safari. Frankly, forcing users to use Safari on the iPhone is not the most legitimate way to get market share, IMO. It's not much different than Microsoft trying to stop Netscape from being pre-installed on various manufacturers computers in the 1990's except here you thus far don't even get an option after the fact to install say Opera on it if you so desired. I realize there are conflicting stories on whether Opera actually applied or whether Apple simply told them not to bother. A similar situation exists regarding Flash and Adobe. Either way, the fact remains, I have to use Safari on my iPod Touch or not use it to browse at all. If there were a version of Firefox for it, I would probably use it instead as I use Firefox on both my two Macs and my PC running both Windows XP and Linux.

IPhones are a phenomenon with their big screen and intuitive UI. And they also included all those internet apps right "in your face" as part of their partnerships with whoever so that's why you got some many hits for a "mobile device" even though the first mobile browsers were around WAY before Jobs woke up with the idea. But other mobile's were too small and or browser sucked that ppl don't really mess around with it much.

[bolibic]

I think "IE users" are enjoying all the games rather than browsing the web. Those net applications users in that graph are prolly mostly ppl paying their bills. So...naturally, those are the ppl you want to "program" for! ;)

We do adjust our sites for IE6 because there are IE6 users. But I smell that there are IE6 users because we adapt our sites, so if we don't adapt our sites we won't have more IE6 users.

The same happens with flash and other plugins. Guy A cannot watch site C because he needs a software upgrade. He clicks install and accept. That's all!

[bolibic]

There's nothing wrong with liking Apple's products, and really, you should like all the products you buy. But assuming that Mac users are somehow more intelligent, more enlightened or even just lead better lives is exactly why the Mac user stereotype is one of elitism, snobbishness and arrogance. Using a Mac does not make you any better or worse than someone who uses a PC.

I guess every time you use IE God kills a kitty and you loose a neurone. So using this invented reason: Using a Mac does not make you any better, but using IE makes Mac users better than you when time tends to years and amount of neurones and kitties tends to zero.

[bolibic]

Since IE is still 70% market share according to this, maybe Apple might like to make MobileMe compliant with IE7? Are they waiting for IE8? Or just purposefully being anti-microsoft?

This is coming from me on IE7 at work, where Me mail is slow as anything, and the calandar is just unuseable. The idea of a web-based mail/calendar is that you can use it anywhere: work, internet cafes, any pc or mac you come across. Currently it doesn't work properly on 70% of machines which you might not have the rights to go installing other browsers on. :mad:

P.S. No I don't use IE at home, but that's a choice I'm free to make, unlike millions of PCs where you have to use what's already on them.

You can install firefox, safari, opera, chrome,.... you can choose many browsers. Don't worry if other programs do not work as browsers, perhaps they were never intended to do so.

The same as you watch youtube and it ask you for a new flash version and you install it. Do the same with your browser.

[rasmasyean]

We do adjust our sites for IE6 because there are IE6 users. But I smell that there are IE6 users because we adapt our sites, so if we don't adapt our sites we won't have more IE6 users.

The same happens with flash and other plugins. Guy A cannot watch site C because he needs a software upgrade. He clicks install and accept. That's all!

There's more to it than that.
Analysts: IE entrenched in the enterprise (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10108852-93.html)

I can tell you from hard experience that it sometimes takes years for companies to adopt something new. It's not that they don't know what they are doing. It's because of the amount of dependencies they have built up around it. It takes time and resources to make a major move. Large corps can take 2-3 years to adopt a platform...and these days...the "browser" IS one such platform.

All you people who knock IE do so because you think that Microsoft puts you (the consumer) first. Or maybe you think they actually neglect you but they should rather consider you more.

But the truth is that they develop primarily to satisfy businesses and you are a second thought. There are so many intranet / server / sharepoint / exchange apps in existence that IE6, IE7, and whatever IE are needed in order for operations to continue.

Also, remember that businesses PAY for their software. People like you (the consumers) steal Microsoft's products! So as an MS Excec who would you cater to first? ;)

In due time IE6 will be converted and Windows 2000 will drop from that chart. But I'm sure there will still be a few shops sporting these for various reasons. I can also tell you this from hard experience that there are even a lot of Windows 2000 / NT still around that are definitely not part of that internet graph. They run many of the machines that make most of the things you use...including the majority of your Mac! :D Robots don't surf the internet but they do have IE6- to bring up service instructions or whatever for technicians. :)

[RedBull27]

The question for me is whether that percentage is the result of iPhone and iPod Touch users (who have no choice in what browser they get to use on it) or if those numbers are PC and Mac computers using Safari. After all, the browser on the iPhone is also a version of Safari. Frankly, forcing users to use Safari on the iPhone is not the most legitimate way to get market share, IMO. It's not much different than Microsoft trying to stop Netscape from being pre-installed on various manufacturers computers in the 1990's except here you thus far don't even get an option after the fact to install say Opera on it if you so desired. I realize there are conflicting stories on whether Opera actually applied or whether Apple simply told them not to bother. A similar situation exists regarding Flash and Adobe. Either way, the fact remains, I have to use Safari on my iPod Touch or not use it to browse at all. If there were a version of Firefox for it, I would probably use it instead as I use Firefox on both my two Macs and my PC running both Windows XP and Linux.

Safari on the iPhone is so stripped down and basic (it does everything that it needs to do) so tell me why I need another web browser for my iPhone when Safari is awesome?

Also, if you look at the actual stats there is a distinction made between Safari (which refers to Mac OS X Safari) and iPhone (Safari on iPhone).

[RedBull27]

That was prior to 2005. Once the Mighty Mouse was introduced, Mac users became arrogant elitists.

With the sheer number of hardcore Windows fanboys who won't believe that there is an alternative to Microsoft and who apologise for all the bugs, crashes and delays that Microsoft serves up, while at the same time calling Mac users every insult under the sun, that coupled with Apple products being purely awesome.......honestly, can you blame us for feeling superior to Windows users?

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Safari on the iPhone is so stripped down and basic (it does everything that it needs to do) so tell me why I need another web browser for my iPhone when Safari is awesome?

Also, if you look at the actual stats there is a distinction made between Safari (which refers to Mac OS X Safari) and iPhone (Safari on iPhone).

You could say the same for the Mac or PC versions as well. Firefox is simply better. I'd also like to have a flash option.

[Ademius]

Safari on the iPhone is so stripped down and basic (it does everything that it needs to do) so tell me why I need another web browser for my iPhone when Safari is awesome?

Really? Mobile Safari is by far the most unstable browser I've ever used. It crashes on a regular basis ffs. And it's been like that since 1.0.

[plings]

Net Applications gathers their market share numbers differently (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/) from sales-based statistics compiled by firms like Gartner or IDC in that they use identifying information from internet browsers. Therefore, their statistics best describe the installed internet-using population.
This is just nonsense. Net Applications does NOT describe anything. At best, they are showing stats for the companies that use their services. But seeing as they actively edit and manipulate their numbers (http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2008/09/04/why-is-net-applications-hitslink-changing-its-browser-stats-after-publishing) to make them look the way they want them to, they can't be trusted to represent anything.

I have no idea why "journalists" keep uncritically repeating the lies from Net Applications.



With regards to the iPhone comment... the only offer so far has been from Opera, which caches EVERYTHING you do on their servers, including secure transactions.
Opera Mini does. Opera Mobile doesn't. Opera Mini is a fairly new browser. Both Opera and Nokia offered full browsing ages before the iPhone, though.

Opera Mini is a useless pile of junk made for old mobile phones, and that's where it belongs.
So only old phones need a browser that is actually faster and cheaper, especially if you pay per MB and you don't have perfect network coverage?

These days, a lot of people will never see full mobile network speeds. In those cases, Opera Mini will still be fast while Safari and other standalone browsers will struggle.

So there's definitely a real need for browsers like Opera Mini.

[kdarling]

I can tell you from hard experience that it sometimes takes years for companies to adopt something new. It's not that they don't know what they are doing. It's because of the amount of dependencies they have built up around it. It takes time and resources to make a major move. Large corps can take 2-3 years to adopt a platform...and these days...the "browser" IS one such platform.

Very true. And oddly, the browser isn't always what you expect.

For example, Verizon (NYNEX at the time) used Netscape Navigator as their standard browser from about 1995 to almost 2002.

All their major web apps were written for Navigator and it wasn't until Netscape failed to evolve their browser that they finally made the expensive move to IE, having to redo everything.

Since the iPhone only offers one browser, it's a strike against it for enterprise use in some cases. They can't just rewrite all old apps to fit Safari. The same applies for IE mobile.

[rasmasyean]

Since the iPhone only offers one browser, it's a strike against it for enterprise use in some cases. They can't just rewrite all old apps to fit Safari. The same applies for IE mobile.

And IE Mobile was one of the worst browsers since the beginning practically.

I don't imagine is it really hard to make a browser app compared to all the other stuff Microsoft does.
So, although I'm not personally aware of Mobile IE Apps, I'm guessing that there are some MS Apps as well as custom apps around which IE Mobile was designed for.

I mean, "Youtube" isn't a major necessity of corporations...and as a matter of fact, I'm sure managers would not want it on ppl's phones PERIOD and try to lock stuff like that out when they can.

On the iPhone Browser note...and the iPhone large screen itself, those stats speak for themselves. Now you KNOW that there are less iPhones in circulation than WM devices or Blackberries or definitely Symbian. But the iPhone just knocks the others off the chart practically.

[MacFly123]

There's nothing wrong with liking Apple's products, and really, you should like all the products you buy. But assuming that Mac users are somehow more intelligent, more enlightened or even just lead better lives is exactly why the Mac user stereotype is one of elitism, snobbishness and arrogance. Using a Mac does not make you any better or worse than someone who uses a PC.

I can admit that there are the type of Mac users that have never messed with PCs and are ignorant in the tech spectrum of things, however, I think in general, the rising generation of "switchers" is well informed hence causing their switch.

Now I never said that I am better than a PC user, but my computer with its OS is better :D It may sound harsh and I understand what you are saying, but the fact is, its like owning a Honda Accord, which is a great well designed and nice looking car that packs a good bang for the buck versus owning a Mercedes. Or if you will, for the PC hot-roders and hardware gamers, it is like they build a kit car that they can tweak and soup up because they can't afford a real Ferrari.

[rasmasyean]

I can admit that there are the type of Mac users that have never messed with PCs and are ignorant in the tech spectrum of things, however, I think in general, the rising generation of "switchers" is well informed hence causing their switch.

Now I never said that I am better than a PC user, but my computer with its OS is better :D It may sound harsh and I understand what you are saying, but the fact is, its like owning a Honda Accord, which is a great well designed and nice looking car that packs a good bang for the buck versus owning a Mercedes. Or if you will, for the PC hot-roders and hardware gamers, it is like they build a kit car that they can tweak and soup up because they can't afford a real Ferrari.

Actually, high end gaming rigs are a lot more expensive than your average Mac. Unless you're talking about souped up upgraded Mac Desktops. But then the high price of that Mac is because they are ripping you off in the upgrades. LOL

[agl82]

.

[netdog]

Do these numbers include Safari for iPhone?

[99MustangGTman]

Even on my PC I don't use IE. I use Google Chrome, while it still has a few bugs that need be worked out, it works great and is fast.

On my Mac I use Safari and it works really great for me.

[ikermalli]

A lot of noobs use windows, so they just use whatever's on their quick launch thing

[rasmasyean]

A lot of noobs use windows, so they just use whatever's on their quick launch thing

Where do you get that from? LOL
The function of a computer goes much beyond "the internet", ya know.

But I guess many "Mac users" in a forum like this are limited mostly using the internet so they don't know what PC life is like.
PC users copy games and applications from each other...including Windows itself! So "the internet" is just one of those "quick launch things" you go to sometimes to find info on how to play your games and use your software. Just go to China and you'll see $10,000 worth of software installed on something they pieced together for $500! :D

Only 244 Genuine Copies of Windows Vista Sold in China (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Only-244-Genuine-Copies-of-Windows-Vista-Sold-in-China-52273.shtml) :eek:

And Linux advocates are always touting "free software"...phht. In a regions of 4 billion people who have "free Windows OS and software", who needs Open Source? Going forward, expect A LOT more Internet Explorers. Out of 4 billion ppl, some of them's got to have their own hacks and personal Microsoft Activation Servers. These ppl are smart when it comes to things like this. I mean, if you look at some of the Advance US Defense projects, most of the lead scientists have Chinese names, even as you'd think it's mostly "white dudes". I guess the "best" ones get a ticket to this place for "a better life" or something. I suppose that leaves the others back there pirating US stuff. haha

[Winni]

Today, I've tried the 64-bit version of IE 7 on (also 64-Bit) Vista Ultimate on my Mac Pro. I didn't use a stop watch, but it loads an (encrypted) Internet banking page about three times faster than 32-Bit IE7 and about four times faster than 32-Bit Firefox 3. Since Firefox 3 already is a bit faster than Safari, that leaves the Apple browser on the last rank.

Furthermore, in my experience, Safari still renders many webpages wrong and some web shops don't work with it at all. Even eBay is still a pain in the neck to use with Safari, especially when you put a sale online.

And in the office world, there still is no way around Internet Explorer - too many corporate Intranet applications are not compatible with anything else.

And before you ask or flame: I mostly use Safari, for the same reason most people on Windows use Internet Explorer - it's the default, pre-installed browser, it most of the time does the job and so there's not much reason to play with something else. I usually only use Firefox when a page does not work properly with Safari.

Oh, and I don't like Opera and plainly -hate- tabbed browsing. ;)

[zen.state]

Safari isn't perfect but I love it. I have grown very comfortable with it and have been using it as my main browser since it was in beta.