Apple Offering Free Licensing of Mini DisplayPort Spec

[BenRoethig]

Mark my words, Mini-DP = ADC. It wont take long for that to happen

Its a bit worse than ADC. ADC offered adapters to regular DVI in both computer to display and display to computer flavors. Mini-DP has no adapters to standard displayport. Nor does it have adapters for S-video/RCA video or HDMI. It only offers backwards compatibility to older VGA and DVI displays. This may change when and if additional cables appear, but as of right now, Mini-Displayport is the most restrictive display connector Apple has ever used.

[danny_w]

I know your type very well. I have read through pages of this thread (and the one about the 24" monitor) and it is very obvious you're one heavy kool aid drinker who believes Apple does no wrong. The same ones who bought the whole story of PowerPC/Altivec leaving no chances for Intel Processors and that Apple would never use the inferior Intel chips!; Firewire leaving USB 2.0 behind and being the dominant form of connectivity in few years. That's what you get when you look at the world only through those Apple loving lens. It seems like something never change

Keep applauding Apple for the NIH ideology and locking out their customers to very little choices. I'm sure Sony, Panasonic and the rest of the big companies will sit down and let Steve Jobs and Apple decide the future form of connectors for them!

Mark my words, Mini-DP = ADC. It wont take long for that to happen
Right on! Please give it up Matticus. We are all tired of hearing your endless Apple KoolAid rants. You are getting so tiresome.

[matticus008]

it is very obvious you're one heavy kool aid drinker who believes Apple does no wrong.
Apple makes mistakes all the time. This particular issue has nothing to do with Apple. Intel, Microsoft, and Dell would all be entitled to the same.

This is about the remarkable ignorance of people who do not know what they're talking about, how standards work, or what it means to design a product.
The same ones who bought the whole story of PowerPC/Altivec leaving no chances for Intel Processors and that Apple would never use the inferior Intel chips!
You'll find the exact opposite from me in the Intel threads, so you don't know my "type" at all.
Keep applauding Apple for the NIH ideology
Apple is a member of VESA and credited for the development of DisplayPort. If VESA had a problem with it, or considered its connector noncompliant, why would they use Apple as an example of a leading adopter of DisplayPort in their products?
and locking out their customers to very little choices. I'm sure Sony, Panasonic
You want to talk about lock in and use Sony and Panasonic as counterexamples? Wow.
Mark my words, Mini-DP = ADC. It wont take long for that to happen
MiniDP = DisplayPort. End of story. It's a done deal and a standards-endorsed connector. I'm sorry, but you'll have to find something else to bitch about.
Right on! Please give it up Matticus. We are all tired of hearing your endless Apple KoolAid rants. You are getting so tiresome.
Ah yes. The "Kool Aid" defense, the last resort of the uninformed. Tell you what. You explain how this would work any differently with a company other than Apple, and then you'll have some inkling of credibility.

[ATimson]

It's $29, and thin has nothing to do with it.
You're right about the thin part, but it's $100 for the dual-link DVI adapter, which is what you need to drive the 30" ACDs.

You should be more concerned about the fate of DisplayPort in general. VESA hasn't had a lasting market success since VGA. This isn't their first attempt at a DVI replacement.
But arguably their most successful, seeing as how I hadn't heard of any of the others. ;)

[matticus008]

You're right about the thin part, but it's $100 for the dual-link DVI adapter, which is what you need to drive the 30" ACDs.
That is indeed true, which is why it's not included in the box. Apple is thus far the only company to implement dual-link DVI support over DisplayPort, though, so it makes little sense to complain since they're the only ones even providing the option. This is doubly true of complaining about a lack of composite/S-Video out, since this is an inherent limitation of DisplayPort itself.

The only other adapters on the market are single-link, so if you've got a "normal" DisplayPort laptop, you're SOL. But I guess Apple providing an adapter at all is "lock-in" again.
But arguably their most successful, seeing as how I hadn't heard of any of the others. ;)
Yes indeed. But it's what makes the whole NIH argument so utterly laughable. VESA didn't try to work with the existing and perfectly extensible HDMI standard--they went off and created DisplayPort (if you want a poster child for "NIH syndrome", look no further than VESA). Several companies participated in that rollout, and VESA itself credits Apple for its role and specifically acknowledges them as a leading DP deployment.

Yet somehow, the standards body's full approval isn't enough. It's an Apple conspiracy, meriting waves of idiotic trolls.

Nobody seems to be complaining about 802.11n (same thing; on the market before ratification) or DisplayLink (partial draft USB3 in a part-proprietary rollout) or even DisplayPort itself (needless new connector when HDMI could easily be extended with a packet-based option and retain its advantages).

If it weren't Apple involved, these posters wouldn't even know about it to complain. They then bring that special brand of ignorance here, armchair quarterbacking and wringing their hands over something that happens all the time in the industry, involving many companies and having nothing at all to do with Apple or special Apple syndromes. It's pointless, obnoxious, space-wasting trolling.

Apple's decision to adopt DisplayPort at all was dumb. But that ship has sailed, and posters here using that fact to suggest that they have a problem with DP makes no sense at all.

[SACD02]

That is indeed true, which is why it's not included in the box. Apple is thus far the only company to implement dual-link DVI support over DisplayPort, though, so it makes little sense to complain since they're the only ones even providing the option. This is doubly true of complaining about a lack of composite/S-Video out, since this is an inherent limitation of DisplayPort itself.
That's the wole point! They are leaving no port for backward compatibility and yet they refuse to supply the cable. Look you dont see me complaining that Apple doesn't include the DVI, VGA (or DVI to VGA converter) cables on the laptops that have DVI ports. Those cables are cheap and they are everywhere so it doesnt matter
But when you feel like innovating and introduce some new and yet to be used port on your laptops (the same pro laptops I need to use to connect to my 30" monitors) then you might as well supply the connectivity! It doesn't help that the new port itself is introduced in a form that makes it even more difficult to find cables for
I find it stupid that Steve Jobs and Apple expect me to fork out more cash in order to help them in their crusade for Mini-DP and their love for the so called "thinness". You want to make Mini-DP popular? Start by supplying the cables in your laptops
Right now I need 2 MBPs for the interns that work for me. It also means to spend another $200 so they can connect it to the monitors and all for nothing! Yeah Right Apple!
You better start innovating by offering the already two years old Blu-ray option!

If it weren't Apple involved, these posters wouldn't even know about it to complain. They then bring that special brand of ignorance here, armchair quarterbacking and wringing their hands over something that happens all the time in the industry, involving many companies and having nothing at all to do with Apple or special Apple syndromes. It's pointless, obnoxious, space-wasting trolling.

You better apply for Apple's PR department since you call everyone criticizing Apple a troll. I'm sure all those people like me that use Apple computers to make a living (and spend way more money on Apple products in a year that you'd ever in your entire life) are trolling leaving you with no option but to defend his highnes. Unlike you, the emotional attachment to Steve Jobs and Apple doesn't come between me and the reality!

Apple's decision to adopt DisplayPort at all was dumb. But that ship has sailed, and posters here using that fact to suggest that they have a problem with DP makes no sense at all.
People don't want to spend money on something that has a potential to be a niche offering in the future. I'm sure all those people who bought the expensive ADC to DVI connectors know what I'm saying. Remember the ADC ship also sailed, but it ended up sinking!

[TheSpaz]

Sweet. This is good news.

[VoR]

That's the wole point! They are leaving no port for backward compatibility and yet they refuse to supply the cable.
*
But when you feel like innovating and introduce some new and yet to be used port on your laptops (the same pro laptops I need to use to connect to my 30" monitors) then you might as well supply the connectivity!
*
You better start innovating by offering the already two years old Blu-ray option!

How do I get HD sound out of these innovative, futuristic laptops?

[SACD02]

How do I get HD sound out of these innovative, futuristic laptops?

You have to wait for Steve and see what he thinks!
Right now it's all about the Mini-DP and future
I mean Mini-DP is a standard right? Blu-ray is not. For Mini-DP to be a standard, no one has to use it but it already counts as a standard because, well it serves us well on the form over function crusade; oh and it already exist in the spec book. But for Blu-ray who has every major corporations support (except Toshiba) and even with Microsoft coming aboard, it is a bag of hurt and not yet a good standard!
How much of a hypocrite can you be to accept this double standard from Apple and yet defend it like it is a holy grail?

[matticus008]

That's the wole point! They are leaving no port for backward compatibility and yet they refuse to supply the cable.
This is an inherent DisplayPort issue, not an Apple issue.
But when you feel like innovating and introduce some new and yet to be used port on your laptops (the same pro laptops I need to use to connect to my 30" monitors) then you might as well supply the connectivity!
They do. You can order the adapter. This would not be solved by using a normal size DisplayPort connector.

Including it in the box is a hugely wasteful and expensive move--the overwhelming majority of users would never use it, and it's a $100 waste for all of them.
I find it stupid that Steve Jobs and Apple expect me to fork out more cash in order to help them in their crusade for Mini-DP and their love for the so called "thinness".
You're not listening. Thinness has nothing to do with it, and regular DisplayPort has the exact same problem. I don't know how many times that has to be repeated.

If you had a regular DisplayPort connector, you'd still have to fork over $100 for the adapter, and Apple would still be the only company bothering to sell one.
You better apply for Apple's PR department since you call everyone criticizing Apple a troll.
No, I'm calling ignorant whiners who refuse to read trolls. I've criticized Apple myself in this very thread. You are complaining for the sake of complaining, without any semblance of rationality or professionalism, without having any knowledge, and without even reading the information that's been given to you.
(and spend way more money on Apple products in a year that you'd ever in your entire life) are trolling leaving you with no option but to defend his highnes. Unlike you, the emotional attachment to Steve Jobs and Apple doesn't come between me and the reality!
QED.

Pointing out your sweeping cognitive errors and total ignorance of the subject matter is not defending Steve Jobs, who has nothing to do with anything.
Remember the ADC ship also sailed, but it ended up sinking!
And so might DisplayPort. Being an early adopter has risks.
But for Blu-ray who has every major corporations support (except Toshiba) and even with Microsoft coming aboard, it is a bag of hurt and not yet a good standard!
Blu-ray is a standard. What are you even talking about?

[VoR]

Getting angry and complaining is the correct response to my question :)

Although, looking at the encode codec choice on many blu rays, I think microsoft has been 'on board' for a little while!

[SACD02]

But for Blu-ray who has every major corporations support (except Toshiba) and even with Microsoft coming aboard, it is a bag of hurt and not yet a good standard!
I'm being sarcarstic in explaining Apple's response to people asking for Blu-ray. They refuse to offer Blu-ray even on their high end machine and their rational is Blu-ray being a bag of hurt (no other PC manufacture has a problem implementing it) and not being widely used yet! So how come they turn to Mini-DP which has far less support (in terms of product being on the market) and expect people to ignore their double standard?

This is an inherent DisplayPort issue, not an Apple issue
This is an Apple issue. Display port is a port; nothing more and nothing less. If some company intends to use it (when it is in a super niche status), then they better offer other ports (or cables) for backward compatiblity; so no it has nothing to do with Displayport


They do. You can order the adapter. This would not be solved by using a normal size DisplayPort connector.

Including it in the box is a hugely wasteful and expensive move--the overwhelming majority of users would never use it, and it's a $100 waste for all of them
So let me see. It is wasteful for Apple to offer something to their customers when they use a port that is incompatible with 99% of monitors on the market (including their own 20" and 30" monitors) But it is perfectly acceptable to ask customers to spend $100 buying cables so they can use it on a monitor that they bought maybe a month before MB or MBP came out while every other manufactur in the market has no such problem!
It becomes even worst when you consider Mini-DP offers no advantage over the much beloved DVI port. So yeah; what a wasteful pratice on Apple's part
I shall confirm my statement again, sign up for Apple's PR department

You're not listening. Thinness has nothing to do with it, and regular DisplayPort has the exact same problem. I don't know how many times that has to be repeated.

If you had a regular DisplayPort connector, you'd still have to fork over $100 for the adapter, and Apple would still be the only company bothering to sell one.

I am listening. But you're so passionate in your journey to support Mini-DP that you tend to forget the real world around you. Ofcourse Apple is the only one selling the cables because they are the only, let me repeat THE ONLY company that are forcing customers to go through with this mess! Dell is offering monitors with Display port, but they give customers the option to use DVI by providing the port
So stop trying to make Apple look like a caring company by selling these cables. They are selling these expensive and unncessary cables because they are asking customers to accept form over function

No, I'm calling ignorant whiners who refuse to read trolls. I've criticized Apple myself in this very thread. You are complaining for the sake of complaining, without any semblance of rationality or professionalism, without having any knowledge, and without even reading the information that's been given to you.

Your so called provided information is nothing but bunch of PR statements put together to paint a rosy situation where there aint one. By calling Mini-DP a standard you try to make it look like Apple is being innovative and offering bid advantages to their customers by supplying Mini-DP

FACT:Mini-DP offers no advantage to the customers. It doesn't give the customers anything new over DVI and their implementation leaves no place for HD audio to be transported.

FACT: Mini-DP is a very niche market right with little options available. Forcing your customers to stay in that little market when you ask them for a premium price on your laptops is absurd!


QED.

Pointing out your sweeping cognitive errors and total ignorance of the subject matter is not defending Steve Jobs, who has nothing to do with anything.

Steve Jobs have everything to do with it. They guy even chooses the songs for iPod commercials, what makes you think he has no say whatsoever in choosing the ports for the laptops?
Step out of the RDF for a second and it might all seem a little more clear to you

And so might DisplayPort. Being an early adopter has risks

You take the risk when you get some new functionality or feature in return. Mini-DP doesn't offer anything new offer DVI considering the Apple's implementation of it. So why risk when you get absolutely nothing in return but a headache to make your hardware together?

[ATimson]

VESA didn't try to work with the existing and perfectly extensible HDMI standard--they went off and created DisplayPort (if you want a poster child for "NIH syndrome", look no further than VESA).
As I understand it, not only was HMDI more or less capped out in terms of how much data could be carried across the cable, DisplayPort also uses a completely different methodology for the monitor technology. While maybe HDMI could have been extended to support higher resolutions. But completely rewriting the protocol to support direct driving doesn't seem viable to me.

[SACD02]

As I understand it, not only was HMDI more or less capped out in terms of how much data could be carried across the cable, DisplayPort also uses a completely different methodology for the monitor technology. While maybe HDMI could have been extended to support higher resolutions. But completely rewriting the protocol to support direct driving doesn't seem viable to me.

I'm happy they did make the Display port. HDMI has limitations in terms of resolution and it is not the best solution when it comes to computers and their video connectivity. HDMI is more useful on CE devices and it is perfectly equipted for handling the Blu-ray's needs

Despite what that heavy Kool Aid drinker wants you to believe, the problem is not Display port nor supporting it. The problem is Apple completely abandoning a meaningful backward compatiblity path and simply asking customers to spend more money and buy bunch of cables that currently provides them with zero advantage!
Display port is a wonderful technology, but at this time its market is very limited hence the need to give customers the backward compatibility option. Apple is simply choosing to ignore this and forces customers to pay for something that they don't need to

[matticus008]

As I understand it, not only was HMDI more or less capped out in terms of how much data could be carried across the cable, DisplayPort also uses a completely different methodology for the monitor technology.
Yes, as has been discussed at length in this thread, DisplayPort is packet-based. The HDMI connector, however, has no explicit limitation, and DisplayPort could have been added to HDMI, offering the same benefit of packet-based communication without requiring a new connector and without requiring an adapter for the implementation of HDMI signal output.
But completely rewriting the protocol to support direct driving doesn't seem viable to me.
It's not a rewrite at all. Nothing would have to be done to existing HDMI standards, as HDMI receivers would still require a stream input and DP receivers would still require packet input.
So how come they turn to Mini-DP which has far less support (in terms of product being on the market) and expect people to ignore their double standard?
It's not a double standard, because it's not true. DisplayPort has been signed on to by just about everyone, for better or for worse. Blu-ray, on the other hand, has even less market share on computers than DisplayPort. Do not confuse home theater players with PC usage.
This is an Apple issue. Display port is a port; nothing more and nothing less.
All right. Let's start over, since you people can't even figure out what you're complaining about.

1. DisplayPort is a standard, ratified to version 1.1a. It technically includes the capability to output a VGA, DVI, or HDMI signal through the DP connector. This feature has not yet been implemented by any graphics company. DP itself is not backwards compatible with VGA, DVI, or HDMI. There is no possibility to output composite or S-video.

2. As a result of this implementation failure, DVI and HDMI adapters on the market include a signal converter within the cable, increasing the cost of the adapters. Only Apple sells an adapter capable of handling dual-link DVI. If you own a Dell or Lenovo notebook with DisplayPort and a dual-link display from any manufacturer, you are SOL.

2. DisplayPort, managed by VESA, is a technology Apple has played a significant role in developing, though it has been primarily championed by Dell. Apple is among a list of several companies VESA singles out for aggressively deploying DisplayPort. VESA has not complained or otherwise indicated a problem with Apple. You cannot have "not invented here" problems with something you helped invent.

3. The DisplayPort spec has called for a mini connector (a la USB mini, HDMI C) since at least WinHEC, January 2008. This connector has the primary goal of reducing PCB surface area required, so as to be usable on portable devices (netbooks and smaller), where PCB surface area is at a premium. Apple's proposal was finalized by September at the latest, when it was considered by VESA.

4. As of the first of December at the latest, the Apple mini connector has been named the official miniature connector for DisplayPort, fulfilling the WinHEC promise. As version 1.2 is otherwise incomplete and will not be ratified until 2009, Apple introduced a royalty-free license to encourage interoperability in the interim; were they interested in lock-in, they would simply sit on the connector until 2009. You cannot have lock-in when there is no obstacle preventing a solution, and where the alleged lock-in is officially endorsed by an open standard.

5. This process of bringing products to market ahead of final ratification is common in the electronics industry. Ratification is often held up by unrelated problems or delays, as each new version often brings several changes. The finished components are frequently marketed by their primary developers. This has been the case with IDE, 802.11n, DisplayLink, and many others. It is not a unique and sinister strategy concocted by Apple to sell their own monitors.

6. Being an early adopter sometimes means waiting for components and adapters. The simple DVI dongle will arrive when graphics cards implement DVI output over DP connector. The mini to full adapter cables will be available when Molex starts manufacturing the mini connectors at volume. DisplayPort in general is still very much a work in progress, with several rather major pieces still on the "to do" list.
FACT:Mini-DP offers no advantage to the customers. It doesn't give the customers anything new over DVI and their implementation leaves no place for HD audio to be transported.
You're describing DisplayPort generally, and yet turning around and claiming that DisplayPort is "great".

[djellison]

Call me when this free licensing means I can get a DL DVI adaptor for <£70 - which is a disgusting price for a bloody adaptor.

Until then - it's air.

Doug

[SACD02]

You're describing DisplayPort generally, and yet turning around and claiming that DisplayPort is "great".

It is great when implemented properly; offering audio support and such not because something can be thin. It is no advantage when 99% of your maket is incompatible to the standard. Display port is a great port but like everything it is a multi-year phase to make it the dominant one. Mean time, the companies need to supply the customers with the backward compatibility considering the size of DVI/VGA enabled products
At this moment, it gives customers nothing; so it is retarted to ask them spending even more money to get a cable to use it
When it becomes a mainstream format and its potential is used widely, then it makes sense to push it more aggressively

It's not a double standard, because it's not true. DisplayPort has been signed on to by just about everyone, for better or for worse. Blu-ray, on the other hand, has even less market share on computers than DisplayPort. Do not confuse home theater players with PC usage.

It is a big double standard and it is laughable how you try to make Apple look innocent here
Blu-ray is a wide industry standard right now. All PC manufacutres (excuding the Toshiba for obvious reasons) are including Blu-ray on their laptops. Many of those laptops have sub $1000 prices and affordable enough for average customer. Blu-ray ROMs are on their way to become standard on desktops and laptops during the next year
Microsoft has commited to support Blu-ray and the support is coming online in Vista SP2
All the major studios (including Steve's Disney) have invested heavily in Blu-ray and the marketing behind it
Blu-ray is HERE. Blu-ray is NOW and people are already using the format to its max potential in terms of video and audio potential
Pro cusotmers have been using Blu-ray for some time now archiving their big files and use it to provide their customers with HD videos and high quality photos (I have many of those customers)

Display port on ther hand is a very limited market compared to Blu-ray. Lots of the computers, monitors and Graphics card out there have no Display port connectivity. The cables are hard to find and expensive

It takes a BIG BIG fanboy to claim Dispayport is more mainstream than Blu-ray in their respective market; and as I have suggested before, you don't fail in this department

1. DisplayPort is a standard, ratified to version 1.1a. It technically includes the capability to output a VGA, DVI, or HDMI signal through the DP connector. This feature has not yet been implemented by any graphics company. DP itself is not backwards compatible with VGA, DVI, or HDMI. There is no possibility to output composite or S-video.

I don't care for composite or S-video so don't put words in my mouth. VGA have long became the standard for projectors and any decent HDTV out there can take advantage of DVI or VGA
I dont care if it is compatible or not. That's Apple's problems to sort out. IF they are so desperate to push Mini-DP to their customers, they better think of practical solution rather than asking for money to be able to use something that you just bought recently
Mini-DP is incompatible? Start providing legacy ports or provide the customers with the appropriate cables. Don't expect the customers to do the heavy lifting and pay for Steve's love for thinness and non-practical solutions
After All Apple laptops have premium prices. It is not a big deal to ask them to provide the cables

2. DisplayPort, managed by VESA, is a technology Apple has played a significant role in developing, though it has been primarily championed by Dell. Apple is among a list of several companies VESA singles out for aggressively deploying DisplayPort. VESA has not complained or otherwise indicated a problem with Apple. You cannot have "not invented here" problems with something you helped invent.


Stop being all over the place. The problem is Apple sacrificing the convenience of their customers and pushing them to deal with something that's unnecessary. I don't know how hard is it to understand and why you're having such hard time with it
Go outside, go to a Best Buy around you, heck go to an Apple store around you and count how many of their products have Mini-DP or DP. While you're there, count how many DP cables and converters are available. Then you see why Apple is being stupid here

Stop acting like a PR (Apple doesn't even pay you a cent to do so). 99% of the market now do not use DP and in the near future (next 2-3 years), DP is not becoming popular nor providing any awe-inspiring advantage to customers
Mini-DP right now is not a practical solution especially for customers. It doesn't matter if it is standard or not. Right now it is pointless and customers are forced into it by Apple if they buy the MB or MBP
Knowing you, you'll start again by "Mini-DP is a VESA standard and Apple has been a part of it and blah blah blah blah...."

HD DVD was a DVD forum sanctioned format. Guess you know what happened to it....
I remember Toshiba in CES 2008 explaining their situation after Warner going Blu " HD DVD is a DVD forum format supported by many companies and we remain committed and blah blah blah blah"
Few months later HD DVD folded!

4. As of the first of December at the latest, the Apple mini connector has been named the official miniature connector for DisplayPort, fulfilling the WinHEC promise. As version 1.2 is otherwise incomplete and will not be ratified until 2009, Apple introduced a royalty-free license to encourage interoperability in the interim; were they interested in lock-in, they would simply sit on the connector until 2009. You cannot have lock-in when there is no obstacle preventing a solution, and where the alleged lock-in is officially endorsed by an open standard.


I mentioned few products in my first post that are open standards and yet to have any popularity in the market. It is a lock in situation when the choices for Mini-DP are so limited and the only way to enjoy your MB with monitors already in the market (including Apple's own displays) is to fork out some cash. It is a lock in for any customer out there to limit their choices and call it being part of a standard or innovation
No matter how many times you repeat the word "Standard", the number of DP enabled devices remain very limited at the moment and for the near future. So it is a lock in

5. This process of bringing products to market ahead of final ratification is common in the electronics industry. Ratification is often held up by unrelated problems or delays, as each new version often brings several changes. The finished components are frequently marketed by their primary developers. This has been the case with IDE, 802.11n, DisplayLink, and many others. It is not a unique and sinister strategy concocted by Apple to sell their own monitors.


Nobody complained about following situations:
)802.11n because the adapters were already backward compatible with g or b. If you could use the n standard, then you had an advantage and you could USE that advantage while DP gives ZERO advantage at the moment
No n router? Perfectly fine. the adapter can work with b and g routers and cover all the existing customers till they upgrade their routers. No need to fork out more cash and buy adapters. Everything worked seamlessly

)DVD-RW. You cant take advantage of DVD discs? Fine, they can work with your existing CD collections. Once ready, just buy the discs and use them. No adapter and no money needed to provide compatibility

Now Lets look at DP
You bought a MacBook:

)No monitor? Well, ther is only ONE monitor in the market with that port and available only in ONE size (24"). You want 20" or 22"? Sorry!
)No monitor but you want a 30" monitor? Fine, spend $100 on the cable on the top of the premium priced for the laptop!
)Just bought a perfectly good 20/24 monitor before MB? Spend money and get the cable
)VGA monitor? Spend the money and get the cable

Is there an option to prevent this unncessary spending? YES, NO EXTERNAL monitor!
How convenient and easy for the customer; it just works out of the box!

6. Being an early adopter sometimes means waiting for components and adapters. The simple DVI dongle will arrive when graphics cards implement DVI output over DP connector. The mini to full adapter cables will be available when Molex starts manufacturing the mini connectors at volume. DisplayPort in general is still very much a work in progress, with several rather major pieces still on the "to do" list.

Listen to yourself then. It is a work in progress and a very limited market with no obvious benefit at the moment
So customers are expected to take the risk, spend the money, let Apple experiment and all for no Benefit or feature?

[ATimson]

Nothing would have to be done to existing HDMI standards, as HDMI receivers would still require a stream input and DP receivers would still require packet input.
Then you have two standards on one plug, and no easy way to differentiate between them. Without updating HDMI to require any packet-based sources or displays to also offer stream-based as a fallback, you're begging for consumer blowback when they can't use their new HDMI-equipped device with their new HDMI-equipped display.

[matticus008]

Then you have two standards on one plug, and no easy way to differentiate between them.
You wouldn't need to! You would plug the cable in, and the device would output HDMI (we'll call it HDMI-TMDS) or HDMI-Packet as needed. The only place where it would matter is direct drive displays, of which there are currently two, and both are clearly labeled as such. This is essentially the same as dual-link DVI displays requiring something a little special, but Direct Drive displays are even more clearly labeled.
Without updating HDMI to require any packet-based sources or displays to also offer stream-based as a fallback
You're describing exactly the scenario that would solve. DisplayPort as is has the potential to output HDMI, and without having created a new connector, one wouldn't need the apparently inexcusable, unholy evil of an adapter cable (as suggested by our good friends in this thread). The compatibility of displays would be no different than it is currently. Any non-direct drive monitor that currently has a DVI and/or HDMI input already has the capacity to receive the TMDS signal; any direct drive display is clearly labeled as such.
It is great when implemented properly; offering audio support and such not because something can be thin.
No. You're done. "Thin" is irrelevant, and no notebooks from any manufacturer have yet implemented audio output (again, something you have to wait until next year for). Learn to read.
Mean time, the companies need to supply the customers with the backward compatibility considering the size of DVI/VGA enabled products
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB572Z
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z
Blu-ray is HERE. Blu-ray is NOW and people are already using the format to its max potential in terms of video and audio potential
Pro cusotmers have been using Blu-ray for some time now archiving their big files and use it to provide their customers with HD videos and high quality photos (I have many of those customers)
You can archive files on a Blu-ray drive on an Mac today if you want to. All you need to do is buy the drive and pick up a copy of Toast. People are not watching Blu-ray films on their computers, and PC drive sales aren't moving.
It takes a BIG BIG fanboy to claim Dispayport is more mainstream than Blu-ray in their respective market
It takes a BIG BIG troll to make that claim. I am no fan of DisplayPort, as I have repeatedly demonstrated, despite your outright refusal to make any sense at all.
Stop being all over the place.
You seem to be confusing me with yourself. I've provided a clear and straightforward outline of what's going on, and you continue to waffle about, posting long and nonsensical attacks that shift in reasoning from post to post.
The problem is Apple sacrificing the convenience of their customers and pushing them to deal with something that's unnecessary. I don't know how hard is it to understand and why you're having such hard time with it
Hey, you're the one that said DisplayPort was "great".
HD DVD was a DVD forum sanctioned format. Guess you know what happened to it....
Yes, exactly. Which is why people on this forum trying to pin a proprietary label on the thing is so ridiculous. Being a standard doesn't mean anything in and of itself.
No matter how many times you repeat the word "Standard", the number of DP enabled devices remain very limited at the moment and for the near future. So it is a lock in
Now you're just changing your tune entirely. DisplayPort itself, an open standard, is "lock-in"? Okay. That's fine, but that's every DisplayPort device on the market.
802.11n because the adapters were already backward compatible with g or b.
That doesn't have anything to do with the complaint that Apple introduced a connector before ratifying it into the standard, which several people have made as though it's some special Apple affront. Honestly, have you not read anything in this thread?
No monitor? Well, ther is only ONE monitor in the market with that port and available only in ONE size (24"). You want 20" or 22"? Sorry!
There are hundreds of monitors on the market.
No monitor but you want a 30" monitor? Fine, spend $100 on the cable on the top of the premium priced for the laptop!
Yes. At least you'll be able to use it at all, something no other laptop user can say of displays bigger than 24". If you don't want a DisplayPort notebook, don't buy one.
So customers are expected to take the risk, spend the money, let Apple experiment and all for no Benefit or feature?
Ah. Finally, a valid complaint--and one I've supported for several pages now. Congratulations, you've now come full circle to where the discussion was two pages ago without adding a thing.

[NT1440]

Good god matticus, how are you still putting up with some of the ridiculous things people say in here? Kudos to you man for being straightforward and direct.

As a soon-to-be buyer of the new macbook,and eventually sometime later i will be getting an external monitor. Cant wait to give the new connection a try before I pass my judgement.

[SACD02]

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB572Z
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z
Yes but not passing the cost to the customer. People dont make money to pay for Steve Jobs experiments with different ports and see if they succeed!

You can archive files on a Blu-ray drive on an Mac today if you want to. All you need to do is buy the drive and pick up a copy of Toast. People are not watching Blu-ray films on their computers, and PC drive sales aren't moving
Meanwhile people's desire for Mini-DP is going through the roof and all the customers are linning up to have access to Mini-DP! Right?
First of all I want a direct support from Apple in their OS to use BD not a third party support. If the devil Microsoft can do it, why not Apple? Why makes it so difficult for them?
Steve Jobs claims Apple uses Mini-DP to be future proof and invent something new. How come they are unable to implement a BD drive into their macs even the professional ones? Oh yeah the bag of hurt! While Mini-DP is such a great idea and so smooth for customers
Apple needs to cut the BS and start offering what's necessary for function and customers rather than what's necessary to be thin!
Go tell that to all those FCP users who have abandoned FCP and use Adobe's solution so they can use BD authoring

[It takes a BIG BIG troll to make that claim. I am no fan of DisplayPort, as I have repeatedly demonstrated, despite your outright refusal to make any sense at all./QUOTE]
I know you're not a fan of DP. You're a fanboy of Apple who drinks the kool aid and support them no matter what! Apple could start offering compostie port tomorrow and you'll be there saying it is a wonderful idea by Apple to do so! You try your hardest to keep that stock up (of that I own) and make sure no critisism is directed at Apple!

[QUOTE][You seem to be confusing me with yourself. I've provided a clear and straightforward outline of what's going on, and you continue to waffle about, posting long and nonsensical attacks that shift in reasoning from post to post/QUOTE]
All you been doing is keep on saying "Mini-DP is a standard; there are standards and such". You might as well copy and paste a PR release every time you post because your thoughtless posts to defend Apple is getting ridiculous! At least think of a new way to put together those PR statements!

[QUOTE]Hey, you're the one that said DisplayPort was "great".
Cars running on solar energy are also great idea for people and environment. Right now they are not viable option and they don't benefit anyone. When the time comes, they are wonderful
DP is a great idea, but the time hasn't arrived yet unless you want to be "thin" and choose form over function

Yes, exactly. Which is why people on this forum trying to pin a proprietary label on the thing is so ridiculous. Being a standard doesn't mean anything in and of itself
Then stop saying Mini-DP is a standard and hence Apple hasn't locked in anyone! Being a standard doesn't change the situation in this case either. It's Apple locking customers from the choices in the market unless they pay the unnecessary price of buying some cables which gives them zero benefit

Now you're just changing your tune entirely. DisplayPort itself, an open standard, is "lock-in"? Okay. That's fine, but that's every DisplayPort device on the market.

Stop playing with words cause it just magnifies your degree of fanboyism. Majority of the computers and monitors in the market right now are not equipted with DP. A lot of upcoming products dont have DP either. 99% of the perfectly good monitors people have in their homes are not equipted with DP either. So yes, when you give your customers somehting that's incompatible with everything else out there and you force them to pay the extra if they happen to buy your produdct, it is a lock in at its finest; the same that you're a fanboy at its finest!

That doesn't have anything to do with the complaint that Apple introduced a connector before ratifying it into the standard, which several people have made as though it's some special Apple affront. Honestly, have you not read anything in this thread?
Apple could go ahead and introduce anything; but they have to provide the backward compatibility path at no cost to the customers considering their provided port has next to zero to visibility in the market

There are hundreds of monitors on the market
they could be millions! and they still requrie A cable!

Yes. At least you'll be able to use it at all, something no other laptop user can say of displays bigger than 24". If you don't want a DisplayPort notebook, don't buy one
Ofcourse I wont. Unlike you, I dont buy macs to be cool and fit the image of Mac guy on the commercials. My life doesn't revolve around a MB and an iMac and playing with my iPhone! I use over 25 macs and 40 monitors in my work place to do photography and make a living so to a professional, everything matters. I'm not going to change everything because Apple "felt like it"
And I dont intend to spend my money to drive Steve Jobs R&D

Ah. Finally, a valid complaint--and one I've supported for several pages now. Congratulations, you've now come full circle to where the discussion was two pages ago without adding a thing
Who are you to claim something is valid or not?
I didn't ask for your authorization to declare something being valid ro not
You have no place in saying which complains of people are being valid and which are not; especially a fanboy like you

Good god matticus, how are you still putting up with some of the ridiculous things people say in here? Kudos to you man for being straightforward and direct.

As a soon-to-be buyer of the new macbook,and eventually sometime later i will be getting an external monitor. Cant wait to give the new connection a try before I pass my judgement
Start providing something to the discussion and hide behind somebody else's answers
There are people out there that have to work with more than one computer and display. Professionals cant "try" something new just because Apple "tells us" so!

[AidenShaw]

Stop playing with words cause it just magnifies your degree of fanboyism.

But it is only wordplay.... Take my advice and opt out of the game -- you're not going to get the last word.

[Mal]

Oh shut up, all of you. Apple's implemented Mini DisplayPort and isn't going back unless DisplayPort goes away all together, so what the heck are you arguing about? It's not going to change anything and it's a meaningless discussion, so quit whining! That's aimed at both sides of this ridiculous argument, btw.

jW

[Joe The Dragon]

Oh shut up, all of you. Apple's implemented Mini DisplayPort and isn't going back unless DisplayPort goes away all together, so what the heck are you arguing about? It's not going to change anything and it's a meaningless discussion, so quit whining! That's aimed at both sides of this ridiculous argument, btw.

jW
They can go full DP on there desktops with Full DP to mini DP adapters.

Will ati / nvidia want to make FULL size video cards with mini ports? Maybe on there half high cards. But Full DP with adapters is the way to go.

[SACD02]

But it is only wordplay.... Take my advice and opt out of the game -- you're not going to get the last word.
Keep that advice to yourself. Nobody asked you for one

Oh shut up, all of you. Apple's implemented Mini DisplayPort and isn't going back unless DisplayPort goes away all together, so what the heck are you arguing about? It's not going to change anything and it's a meaningless discussion, so quit whining! That's aimed at both sides of this ridiculous argument, btw.

jW
It's called freedom of speech
People have every right to argue about different decisions made by a company and there is nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't end up anything serious (like that stupid arguement in AVSforum between BD vs. HD DVD fanboys that ended up closing the forum for few days)

If it bothers you, dont come and visit this thread

[fteoath64]

How do I get HD sound out of these innovative, futuristic laptops?
You don't with the current crowd of laptops. The Nvidia and ATI implementation of HDMI does not support audio processing!. S3 seems to claim to be the only graphics maker reently supporting this. But Blu-Ray players hasn't got that implemented ironic enough!:D

I expect the future graphics chips will support this and hopefully pump that thru DP if at all possible. There is a data channel in DP but that has little bandwidth. I really don't see Apple implementating a native HDMI V1.3 port on their laptops ever.

So cables and blackboxes to convert to HDMI might be just the cumbersome option to use.:apple::apple: They still want to nickel-and-dime us users:o

[loslosbaby]

Still strikes me as backwards. Why not work with other manufacturers first to develop a standard, instead of coming up with one and hoping it gets picked up? Maybe someone smarter than me can explain this way of thinking.

Its simple...its all about the connector. It takes many months, sometimes years, to get a connector finalized. DVI was a recent disaster (9 variations) and took 18 mos to finalize. Remember the introduction of EISA? 24 months is what it took for Amphenol to get that one going.

The connector process is reflective of the business process:

1) Create an industry organization
2) Get people to join
3) Start to hash out the connector
...months later...
29) Ship products based on 2-3 variations of the standard...
...months later...
33) Make compromises, deals, or out-right bribes (Bloo-Ray)
...months later...
47) Finalize the standard

This process was capable of being single-vendor front-to-back, or maybe three, and when released is a "tada" and then someone can make their mind up with something to look at, examine, and see the real performance of.

(We're going through this with investors--they are much happier to invest in something they can get a demo of...the days of "let us have some money and in three years you will get a demo of XYZ" are over.)

Sometimes Apple hits it (eliminating floppies, laser printers, proportional fonts, FW, mice in general) sometimes they miss it (ADB, one-button mice, etc.)

We'll see!

G.

[drsmithy]

No. There is no other explanation at this point other than your willful ignorance.

Yes. Unless you can come up with a convincing reason why comparing similar products, targeted at similar markets, with similar design constraints, is invalid.

Perhaps you recall your earlier photo blunders. The illustrations posted in this thread handily demonstrate the lack of space.

Again, only if you believe no aspect of the MacBook's design is changeable (an argument you take both sides on, depending on what you're trying to prove).

You have not presented any authority suggesting that Apple's engineers and designers did not know what they were doing and did not select the optimum design for their established criteria--in other words, you have not justified a plausible alternate design.

I have presented numerous authorities than an alternately designed laptop, similarly sized (or smaller), but utilising DP, was possible.

And it's "naught".

Actually, both are valid.

Apple is a member of VESA. VESA's own press releases credit Apple for their involvement in the development and implementation of DisplayPort (NIH syndrome? Where?): "Many VESA member companies have played important roles in establishing the DisplayPort specifications and compliance testing process, including [...] Apple [...] " The complaint that Apple's connector was retaliatory petulance because they didn't create it is utterly without merit.

You are conflating DisplayPort (the standard) with DisplayPort (and Mini-DP) the connector.

You also apparently have zero understanding of what "NIH syndrome" refers to.

You continue to claim, for no reason other than sheer stupidity, that Apple walked away from a standard they played a large role in creating out of spite. If they were going to do that, then they would not have adopted DisplayPort at all.

No, I claim they used a non-standard connector when a standard one would have done because that's what Apple do. As per previously offered examples like ADC and Mini-DVI.

I have said many times that the MacBook could have been designed differently, with different tradeoffs and different priorities.

You have not offered a single example of one of these 'tradeoffs' that DP over Mini-DP would have required, nor how they would have meaningfully reduced the functionality or overall design of the MacBook.

Once again, that's you. The tradeoff is blatantly apparent: it DOES NOT FIT ON THE CURRENT PCB.

The PCB design isn't fixed (or, at least, it wasn't when the MacBook was being designed).

HDMI has a standard size connector and a mini connector. DisplayPort does as well. Unless you are criticizing HDMI's C connector, which results in roughly the same PCB savings, you cannot criticize the mini DP connector on those grounds.

I most certainly can criticise the use of Mini-DP where it is not required. Just like I could, and would, criticise Apple if they only put Mini-USB ports onto the MacBook. However, that criticism would not mean that Mini-USB ports didn't need to exist at all since it is quite clear that several existing devices could not be retain equivalent functionality and overall design without Mini-USB.

[matticus008]

Yes but not passing the cost to the customer.
Whether you like it or not, not including extraneous cables and optional parts is simply par for the course for the industry. It means that companies can offer better products by redistributing the BOM allowance, and only those customers needing the extra features have to pay--it's really win-win.
First of all I want a direct support from Apple in their OS to use BD not a third party support.
Fine. But one has nothing to do with the other. Apple doesn't like the current hazards of BD and has not yet been forced thanks to incredibly low demand.

I know you're not a fan of DP. You're a fanboy of Apple who drinks the kool aid and support them no matter what!
That's plainly not true, and repeating it will not make it more so. This discussion isn't about Apple; it's about ignorant whining from people incapable of structuring a logical complaint. Pointing out the obvious flaws in your knowledge and reasoning does not equate to defending the other side.

As I have said many times, implementing DisplayPort at all was stupid. How that is supporting Apple makes as much sense as any of your other arguments.

All you been doing is keep on saying "Mini-DP is a standard; there are standards and such". You might as well copy and paste a PR release every time you post because your thoughtless posts to defend Apple is getting ridiculous!
Except that the press releases that already exist, from VESA, say the same thing. You know, VESA, the standards body for whom you seem to be taking offense where they themselves have no problem.
DP is a great idea, but the time hasn't arrived yet unless you want to be "thin"
And again, the ignorance is staggering. DisplayPort does not enable thinner electronics at all. Period.
Stop playing with words cause it just magnifies your degree of fanboyism.
It's not playing with words. You're complaining that this is proprietary lock-in, then admitting that it's a standard and saying that standards aren't the solution to lock-in. You can't make up your mind about what's acceptable.
Apple could go ahead and introduce anything; but they have to provide the backward compatibility path at no cost
Nobody else does.
Who are you to claim something is valid or not?
When you can create a logical and coherent complaint, based in reality and surviving the simple facts of the situation, it's valid. Anything else is baseless bitching, as you and others have roundly demonstrated.
Yes. Unless you can come up with a convincing reason why comparing similar products, targeted at similar markets, with similar design constraints, is invalid.
Because it has no bearing on any other. This is a circular comment, and it doesn't help your case. Even within a company with a larger product lineup, like Dell, there are specific constraints in specific models--you get varying numbers and arrangements of ports because different hardware and chipset selections, along with different exterior designs, impose different constraints.
Again, only if you believe no aspect of the MacBook's design is changeable (an argument you take both sides on, depending on what you're trying to prove).
No. There is one side. Whether the design is changeable is not the question. The question is whether there is a justification to require a change, without making other compromises that are determined to be unacceptable. This is something you cannot establish.
I have presented numerous authorities than an alternately designed laptop, similarly sized (or smaller), but utilising DP, was possible.
That is (a) not an authority and (b) not relevant. Fitting a port into a device at least the size of the port is not evidence of anything except that that particular device was designed to do so.
You are conflating DisplayPort (the standard) with DisplayPort (and Mini-DP) the connector.
Conflation requires distinction. The connectors are part of the standard; no conflation needed.
You also apparently have zero understanding of what "NIH syndrome" refers to.
Please. You've continued for a dozen posts pushing the laughable and idiotic notion that Apple, a VESA member actively involved in the development of DisplayPort (including its connectors), has taken offense to their own work to create a reactionary "not invented here" design. You want to talk about zero understanding, look in a mirror.
No, I claim they used a non-standard connector when a standard one would have done because that's what Apple do.
Except that this is a standard connector, and it's available to others, unlike mini-DVI, and that ADC could easily have gone on to be a working standard had it been more successful in the marketplace. VESA, for its part, developed a similar, standardized connector that had less success and fewer manufacturers involved.
You have not offered a single example of one of these 'tradeoffs' that DP over Mini-DP would have required, nor how they would have meaningfully reduced the functionality or overall design of the MacBook.
First, you're lying, and second you are arguing the affirmative and have the burden of proof--it's your examples we await, and I have intentionally not mentioned it to highlight your complete inability to address the question. The tradeoffs in the current design are clear: (1) the PCB will not tolerate an additional or larger port. The PCB is the maximum size allowed in the horizontal dimensions, and the only alternative is to reduce battery volume and thus battery life. (2) Ignoring the PCB, addition of another or larger port requires a choice between (a) lack of structural integrity (b) moving ports to two sides, or (c) sacrifice of another connector somewhere.
However, that criticism would not mean that Mini-USB ports didn't need to exist [I]at all since it is quite clear that several existing devices could not be retain equivalent functionality and overall design without Mini-USB.
But your DP argument forecloses exactly that--you claim that any device that might elect to use DisplayPort can use the full-size connector variant. If that is the case, then any such device could also use HDMI with the full-size HDMI connector. Your argument, however, claims that the HDMI C connector is justified to exist, while the mini-DP is not. These are mutually exclusive.

Once again, the bottom line is that you are complaining with a lack of knowledge about the basis of your complaint, and attempting to refine your comments without confronting the reality. You can swap out the word Apple at any point in this discussion with any other industry corporation, so these weak and asinine fanboy and Kool Aid comments are a complete waste of time and fully illustrate the nonviable nature of your arguments and your utter lack of professionalism. The bottom line is that VESA created the standard, Apple was involved, and VESA continues to praise Apple for its DisplayPort deployment. If VESA had a problem or if they considered Apple to be going off on an NIH tangent, the standards body would be the authority.

Nothing about this situation is unusual or evil or hasn't been done (without complaint by the ignorant) by companies with names that aren't Apple.

[RBR2]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/01/apple-offering-free-licensing-of-mini-displayport-spec/)

Arstechnica (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/12/01/apple-offers-free-licensing-for-mini-displayport-spec) points to Apple's mini DisplayPort license (http://developer.apple.com/softwarelicensing/agreements/minidisplayport.html) which is available as a "no fee" license to interested parties. Apple introduced the Mini Display port with its new notebooks and 24" LED Cinema Display in October.

This licensing news adds some clarity to the debate about whether or not the Mini DisplayPort was a proprietary solution from Apple alone. The no fee license should allow 3rd party manufacturers to integrate the port into their own products and also to develop additional useful adapters. For example, Apple currently doesn't offer the appropriate adapter to allow customers to connect older Macs to their new 24" Apple LED Cinema Display.

Apple has said that they will be integrating the Mini Display port into all future products.

Article Link: Apple Offering Free Licensing of Mini DisplayPort Spec (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/01/apple-offering-free-licensing-of-mini-displayport-spec/)

Somebody at Apple finally woke up. The license fees for Firewire are what killed it in the PC world and, ultimately, its decline in the Mac world. It really was not a whole lot of money, but it was charged for each port...and the name, too.

[danny_w]

Somebody at Apple finally woke up. The license fees for Firewire are what killed it in the PC world and, ultimately, its decline in the Mac world. It really was not a whole lot of money, but it was charged for each port...and the name, too.
That's really funny that you say that killed it in the PC world, where Firewire is going great guns right now and is on at least 1/2 to 2/3 of all laptops sold. No, Apple is the one that is trying to kill Firewire, not the licensing fees. Now that Windows users have it and know what it is, Apple wants to take it away. Stupid move, Apple.

[NT1440]

My god, remove it from one product and automatically everyone assumes its gone in all others......

[SACD02]

This image from Gizmodo's Jason Chen shows the extent of the corruption which occurs when using Apple's Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI adaptor.

This image from Gizmodo's Jason Chen shows the extent of the corruption which occurs when using Apple's Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI adaptor.
It looks like users taking advantage of the freshly-released Apple Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI adaptors to hook their MacBook Pros up to high-resolution monitors might be wishing the company had stuck with the more traditional DVI interface, with reports of display corruption issues surfacing.

According to Gizmodo's Jason Chen, who has personally encountered this issue, the problem occurs when the Mini DisplayPort adaptor is used to connect a MacBook Pro to a dual-link DVI monitor. A random period of time into using the device, the image will corrupt, resulting in a picture that looks “like it's missing half its display information, like one of its dual 'links' has failed.”

When this corruption is experienced – somewhere between a few minutes and an hour after the unit is connected – the only solution is to disconnect the adaptor from either the Mini DisplayPort or USB port from which it draws its power.

With users on Apple's support forum reporting the exact same issue with Apple's own Studio range of monitors, it doesn't appear to be an issue with the Dell 3007WFP monitor Gizmodo has been using the test the device but rather a problem with the software or hardware on the MacBook Pro itself. With the Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI adaptor having been delayed from its original ship date, many are wondering if there are design issues at fault here.

According to Chen, an easy way to replicate the issue is to connect a USB hub to one of the other ports on the MacBook while the adaptor is in use. While this suggests that the adaptor is attempting to draw more power via the USB port than the laptop can provide, it also occurs when a powered USB hub is used – with the result that the corruption occurs “almost immediately.”

So far, there has been no comment on the issue from Apple – and no mention of a fix beyond simply disconnecting and reconnecting the device, and to avoid using other USB devices at the same time.

Any MacBook Pro owners blessed with big monitors encountering this issue, or is dual-link DVI from a Mini DisplayPort just being greedy? Share your thoughts over in the forums.

http://www.bit-tech.net/

And now the ugly truth behind this whole "I'm thin and pretty Steve Jobs port" is surfacing for good
But it doesn't matter, you still get Steve Jobs worshipers that it's no big deal and it is others fault not Apple and Apple is doing a great thing to humanity by introducing useless Mini-DP! I'm pretty sure Sony, HP, Dell, Toshiba and others are going to license this port because they love Steve Jobs! yeah right!

[matticus008]

http://www.bit-tech.net/

And now the ugly truth behind this whole "I'm thin and pretty Steve Jobs port" is surfacing for good
But it doesn't matter, you still get Steve Jobs worshipers that it's no big deal and it is others fault not Apple and Apple is doing a great thing to humanity by introducing useless Mini-DP! I'm pretty sure Sony, HP, Dell, Toshiba and others are going to license this port because they love Steve Jobs! yeah right!
Tell me, how does the connector have any relationship to the signal? Regardless of your opinion of mini-DP as a connector, there is zero electrical or data stream difference between the regular and mini connector.

Once again, you're ignoring that the problems with the dual link conversion are inherent to current implementations of DisplayPort and totally independent of the connector. Yes, there are problems with the conversion because the video chipset manufacturers have not properly and completely implemented DVI passthrough (though I know how inconvenient it is to you that this simple reality doesn't give you an opportunity to bitch and moan on this forum).

Whether anyone adopts the mini connector or not, absolutely nothing about that is related to Apple, except that Apple is the only company offering a dual-link adapter at all, likely precisely because of these issues.

[SACD02]

Tell me, how does the connector have any relationship to the signal? Regardless of your opinion of mini-DP as a connector, there is zero electrical or data stream difference between the regular and mini connector.

Once again, you're ignoring that the problems with the dual link conversion are inherent to current implementations of DisplayPort and totally independent of the connector. Yes, there are problems with the conversion because the video chipset manufacturers have not properly and completely implemented DVI passthrough (though I know how inconvenient it is to you that this simple reality doesn't give you an opportunity to bitch and moan on this forum).

Whether anyone adopts the mini connector or not, absolutely nothing about that is related to Apple, except that Apple is the only company offering a dual-link adapter at all, likely precisely because of these issues.

Because they are the only one shoving down this useless connector down the customer's throat for no good reason other than to be thin and satisfy Steve Jobs design fantasies and customers are forced by Apple to pay for it and make the R&D possible.

[Patcoola]

it's good there opening the port to the public, now the cost on the port adapters will go down and maybe some other company will adopt it.

[djellison]

Several weeks on- any sign of something other than a £70 DL-DVI adaptor from apple that doesn't actually do its job?

[SACD02]

it's good there opening the port to the public, now the cost on the port adapters will go down and maybe some other company will adopt it.

All other companies are lined up in advance begging Apple to let them use Mini-DP....Yeah right!
Unlike Apple, the PC makers always choose function over form when it matters so I'm positive we don't see this kind of nonsense from any PC manufacture