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View Full Version : Nokia unveils flagship N97 phone


edesignuk
Dec 2, 2008, 03:08 AM
[following on from this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=609557) yesterday]
146702

Details are in, Nokia has a new flagship phone. The N97 packs a 3.5-inch, 640 x 360 pixel (that's a 16:9 aspect ratio) touchscreen display with tactile feedback and QWERTY keyboard into this sliding communicator with an "always open" window to favorite internet or social networking sites. Nokia calls it the "world's most advanced mobile computer." To back up the claim they've dropped in HSDPA and WiFi radios, 32GB of onboard memory with microSD expansion (for up to 48GB total capacity), and a battery capable of up to 1.5 days of continuous audio playback. 5 megapixel camera with Carl Zeiss glass and "DVD quality" video capture at 30fps, too. The specs are certainly impressive, let's see if the S60 5th Edition OS can support it. The N97 will launch with a retail price set at around €550 ($693) excluding subsidies and taxes, phone to ship in H1 2009.Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/02/nokia-unveils-flagship-n97-phone/).

Holy crap, that's quite a spec. Wonder if the OS can actually make any use of it...

Schtumple
Dec 2, 2008, 03:11 AM
Overkill phone is overkill...

edesignuk
Dec 2, 2008, 03:12 AM
Overkill phone is overkill...Would you really be saying it's overkill if Apple put a decent camera, a better screen and much more memory (with expansion) in the iPhone?

Pixellated
Dec 2, 2008, 03:13 AM
Heh, where's multi touch, or any nice features?

Schtumple
Dec 2, 2008, 03:14 AM
Would you really be saying it's overkill if Apple put a decent camera, a better screen and much more memory (with expansion) in the iPhone?

Probably not... :D

The thing that pushed it over was "DVD quality" video recording, because you know, actual camcorders just don't cut it anymore :rolleyes:

edesignuk
Dec 2, 2008, 03:16 AM
Probably not, the thing that pushed it over was "DVD quality" video recording, because you know, actual camcorders just don't cut it anymore :rolleyes:So you're slagging them off for giving a better spec than you could ever need?

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Nokia fan, I haven't owned one or wanted one for years, I just don't see why you'd have a dig over things that are better than Apple provide.

.Andy
Dec 2, 2008, 03:18 AM
Phones are getting so cool. That looks really sweeeet! The future is rosy :).

Schtumple
Dec 2, 2008, 03:18 AM
So you're slagging them off for giving a better spec than you could ever need?

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Nokia fan, I haven't owned one or wanted one for years, I just don't see why you'd have a dig over things that are better than Apple provide.

:confused: I love nokia, I think they have made some amazing phones, I owned a 6500 slide before I got my iPhone.

I'm just not a fan of overkill specs, or what I think is overkill specs, I like a phone where I can see myself using all the features, rather than just boasting about them ;)

dukebound85
Dec 2, 2008, 03:44 AM
id consider it

geese
Dec 2, 2008, 04:19 AM
Pah! It'll have an annoyingly short battery life, it'll take ages to retrieve your SMS's, and you'll have to wait 6 months for Nokia to release an OS update for it to be stable.

Smartphones are a rubbish. I'm gonna chuck my N95 soon and replace it with a £20 Samsung. Might look cheap but unlike the N95, it does the basics properly.

Scarlet Fever
Dec 2, 2008, 04:33 AM
If the OS is decent and its 3G compatible, I wouldn't mind one.

I'm wondering what a tactile touchpad would feel like...

EDIT; the interface looks fairly terrible. If I was gonna spend the money, I'd get myself an iPhone.

Padraig
Dec 2, 2008, 06:19 AM
S60 is lighting fast on the new e-series phones, so I'd say it's sluggishness is down to the fact that it's a prototype. Also N-series aren't Nokia's business line so that's why you don't have exchange already installed, but i'm sure we'll see a TS e-series any day now.


Not the biggest fan of touchscreen phones but this one looks like it has potential to sway me. I'll withhold judgement until I see a production model.

billandy
Dec 2, 2008, 06:51 AM
S60 is lighting fast on the new e-series phones, so I'd say it's sluggishness is down to the fact that it's a prototype. Also N-series aren't Nokia's business line so that's why you don't have exchange already installed, but i'm sure we'll see a TS e-series any day now.


Not the biggest fan of touchscreen phones but this one looks like it has potential to sway me. I'll withhold judgement until I see a production model.

I used to have N95 which everyone knows that does "everything", kinda like Windows, does everything, but also very stupid. I was one of the first to stand in the queue back in March to get the 1st batch of SIM-free N95 in the UK, but was then disappointed after the novelty has worn out in two-month of time. But I've been using iPhone from 1st gen for nearly a year now, and it's never failed to put smile on my face every time I use it and there're always new surprises from Apple.

If it's not a business phone, then I wonder how many people really want to have that sort of QWERTY keyboard, just for texting? Talking about the E-series, I haven't seen many E90s flying around although it's been out for nearly as long as the N95. I think Nokia just made a misstep with N96 and I haven't seen a single friend using it as many just went for the N95 black 8GB edition.

I really think this is more of a declaration from Symbian saying that "we can do touch too!" since it's just been bought by Nokia. I have nothing against S60 and in fact the company itself is a local company to where I live now and I do meet some of its employees occasionally. It's done better, but I still think that's not enough. Just like the G1, good try, but everyone deep in their heart know that to appeal to the mass, G1's not gonna do it. Nevertheless a good start still and I think it's the same case with Nokia.

MatthewStorm
Dec 2, 2008, 08:43 AM
S60 is lighting fast on the new e-series phones, so I'd say it's sluggishness is down to the fact that it's a prototype. li

Lightning fast? What are you, a turtle? I've had every high end Nokia phone for the last 7 years up to the N96, of which I had 3 and had to return them all for defects. S60 is S L O W. FP2 is better, but still slow. Now remember, i am comparing this to the iPhone. In no way can S60 be considered lightning fast.

Unless you're a turtle....

:-))

angelneo
Dec 2, 2008, 08:58 AM
I wouldn't mind if the OS is stable and responsive. But nokia bragging about the hardware alone just raise red flags in my head about their software. The UI seems cluttered on the video.

For the record, I'm still using an old non-camera phone.

GSMiller
Dec 2, 2008, 08:59 AM
If the OS is decent and its 3G compatible, I wouldn't mind one.

I'm wondering what a tactile touchpad would feel like...

EDIT; the interface looks fairly terrible. If I was gonna spend the money, I'd get myself an iPhone.

Especially if the N97 is an AT&T exclusive then yeah I'd get the iPhone too...

Haven't they used the N97 name before? I'm feeling a bit of déjà vu when I hear it.

t0mat0
Dec 2, 2008, 09:40 AM
It's got between now and WWDC to make it's mark i'd imagine.

Nokia handsets (apart from RIM's Blackberry models) do seem to be an alternative/prior phone for a fair few iPhone usrs - and quite a lot have N series phones. N96 seemed a bit bloated, and now N97 has been announced using S60 touch tech, it's outdated before it's really out.

Nokia has done photography well, and it's fair to compare the lack of video recording on the iPhone currently, and also the paucity of the camera sensor also. However, iPhone sure does a lot better than the N97 - with Nokia handsets still seemingly having a dose of ugly thrown in for good measure.

If Apple's kept their lead, I think it'll be v. interesting to see where things go (and if Intel can get that 64GB chip out, that'd be rather useful for the v3 iPhone presumably announced at WWDC (will Apple stay at the new version every year, bump in size in January?)
Seems the phones will play to their strengths. A lot of factors the N97 is touting now, might be de facto normal things come post-WWDC...

bartelby
Dec 2, 2008, 09:51 AM
Not really ground breaking though, is it.

It'll still have some awful Nokia OS too.

davidjearly
Dec 2, 2008, 09:54 AM
Yeah, I agree with the above. The OS looks shockingly bad, but that is typical of Nokia. 5MP Camera with glass lens? It's still a mobile phone camera.

The only thing I am impressed with is the storage capacity, and that will reach the iPhone soon enough.

Tom B.
Dec 2, 2008, 09:59 AM
Nice specs, but it looks a bit too thick for my pockets...

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/12/sany0053.jpg


And it's interesting that they completely pulled out of Japan (http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/27/nokia-pulls-out-of-japan-nobody-notices/) just before they announced it.

Padraig
Dec 2, 2008, 10:39 AM
Lightning fast? What are you, a turtle? I've had every high end Nokia phone for the last 7 years up to the N96, of which I had 3 and had to return them all for defects. S60 is S L O W. FP2 is better, but still slow. Now remember, i am comparing this to the iPhone. In no way can S60 be considered lightning fast.

Unless you're a turtle....

:-))

Did you use any of the new e-series? E51,71 or 66 because there's no doubting their speed. They're the first s60 devices I've used that aren't sluggish. As for the N96, it has earned it's poor reputation.

daneoni
Dec 2, 2008, 11:12 AM
I like it...if the interface is decently responsive i wouldnt mind getting it. The prototype looks very promising though.

Daim
Dec 2, 2008, 11:18 AM
i'm so glad i didn't buy an overpriced iphone

Stella
Dec 2, 2008, 11:19 AM
Looks very impressive.

Out of contract, that phone could be very expensive.

The speed of the hands on video, slow maybe? Doesn't matter - its a not the final device.. so there's time for improvements.

The problem Symbian have is that its difficult to develop with. They really need to improve this.

The benefit of Symbian is that you don't have some anal retented company telling developers what kind of application can or cannot be made. Worried about viruses? Don't worry, Symbian is very secure. Nokia really need to improve the DownLoad app... it *could* be good.

Lightning fast? What are you, a turtle? I've had every high end Nokia phone for the last 7 years up to the N96, of which I had 3 and had to return them all for defects. S60 is S L O W. FP2 is better, but still slow. Now remember, i am comparing this to the iPhone. In no way can S60 be considered lightning fast.
:-))
Actually, my E71 is very fast despite being loaded with apps etc. You obviously haven't had every end nokia phone...

roland.g
Dec 2, 2008, 11:22 AM
Interface is where it's at. Nokia just doesn't have it.
Not about a touchscreen.
Not about a 5MP camera with Flash.
Not about a MP3 and Video player.
Not about widgets and apps.

It's about tying it all together and having a good user experience.

N97
Instinct
Storm
Omnia

None of them stack up. Sorry.

ert3
Dec 2, 2008, 11:26 AM
looks like I finally have an alternative to my iPhone.

amplifyfitness
Dec 2, 2008, 11:27 AM
Perhaps this will motivate Apple to increase the iPhone's capacity and offer some expandability. I am skeptical, however, of an OS from anyone but Apple. Elegance counts when it come to usability, which is where Apple excels. If hackers can bring video recording, copy & paste, and themes to the iPhone, then Apple can too. Holding out for GPS will drive me to seriously consider the N97 when it is released. Pick up the pace there, Steve!

franzmueller
Dec 2, 2008, 11:27 AM
Wow ,nice phone ... but the interface looks like all Nokia´s I´ve owned before : I hate them

Saludos

Lesser Evets
Dec 2, 2008, 11:29 AM
That looks like some throwback, to me. That keyboard is klunky, the shape is klunky, the function is silly. I suppose it will sell to Nokia fans, but my old Nokia wasn't good enough to make me crave another.

Sweetfeld28
Dec 2, 2008, 11:30 AM
Just the thickness alone is the turn off for me. Though i must admit the OS does look nice.


iPhone vs. N97 Thickness Comparison (http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n97-hands-on/1196875/) via Engadget.

Riemann Zeta
Dec 2, 2008, 11:31 AM
The hardware looks very nice, particularly the higher resolution screen. The problem is that the Symbian OS tends to suck. Also, is the screen multi-touch compatible, or just a typical resistive digitizer?

For the iPhone R3 (not 3G), the new hardware that Apple should adopt would be:

Higher resolution/DPI screen, say 800*480
Better camera, 3.2-5MP with a better lens.

amoda
Dec 2, 2008, 11:31 AM
If the phone is actually as good as the ad makes it seem, and the price is right, I'd switch from iPhone to it.

The user experience that I've had isn't as good as the hype made it seem. Maybe I'm on of the odd ones out but the experience hasn't been that great.

I'm going without things that I'm used to, yet I could find in another phone easily (it's been talked about for ages, the slew of stuff the iPhone is missing).

The iPhone OS is crashing all the time for me. Everything from Safari and the New York Times to lightsaber. Ever update promises more stability yet it doesn't seem to do anything (yes, I'm on 2.2).

A bunch of reasons I won't bore you with, but yeah, that's a sweet phone. Hope it launches in Canada soonish. Ebay is always an option though I guess.

RST
Dec 2, 2008, 11:32 AM
$700.. fat chance!

BklynKid
Dec 2, 2008, 11:39 AM
Wow they sure went to work on that video, the UI look way better than it actually is. Geez.

joepunk
Dec 2, 2008, 11:41 AM
I'll take a Sharp Aquos 931SH slider with a 3.8-inch 1024x480 touch display :D

CADer
Dec 2, 2008, 11:42 AM
So it isn't windows mobile 9good cause that sucks anyway) and it isn't the iPhone OS, and it isn't Palm Based, is it Symbian Based?

I guess I am trying to figure out if it will have an apps or programs to run on besides what nokia puts on it?

Is it actually a "smart phone" or just another wolf in sheep's clothing? My definition of smart phone is a phone that can run programs besides the built-in watered down apps that come with the OS, programs that can be written by any company or anyone.

TheOrioles33
Dec 2, 2008, 11:43 AM
Interface is where it's at. Nokia just doesn't have it.
Not about a touchscreen.
Not about a 5MP camera with Flash.
Not about a MP3 and Video player.
Not about widgets and apps.

It's about tying it all together and having a good user experience.

N97
Instinct
Storm
Omnia

None of them stack up. Sorry.

100% agree. Its gonna take a lot more than that to make me give up my iPhone. Beside, are there 10,000 apps to choose from to install on it. :)

fleshman03
Dec 2, 2008, 11:44 AM
No US timetable yet!!!

I don't ever wanna hear people say we get the best stuff first. You get better Phones, we get better computers (sometimes).

Thinkness isn't as big of a deal if you factor in the slide out keyboard. I really do like that they used it to give a better viewing angle to the screen. That was cool.

UI is crap though. Maybe it was a prototype? Not enough for prime time consumption but enough to show it?

fowler.
Dec 2, 2008, 11:45 AM
S60 isn't too bad... But coming from an ex n82 owner, it has nothing on the iPhone. In that respect though, I'd realy consider this if it had a xenon flash and picture quality that matched my old n82. I really really miss that on the iPhone.

mattwolfmatt
Dec 2, 2008, 11:46 AM
I instinctively marked this story as "negative" because it discusses an Apple-competitor (I like my Kool-aid strawberry flavor, thank you very much.)

On second thought this is a good thing. Competition is always a good thing; ultimately this will make the iphone - and in the end everything Apple - a stronger product.

chameleon81
Dec 2, 2008, 11:47 AM
Pah! It'll have an annoyingly short battery life, it'll take ages to retrieve your SMS's, and you'll have to wait 6 months for Nokia to release an OS update for it to be stable.

Smartphones are a rubbish. I'm gonna chuck my N95 soon and replace it with a £20 Samsung. Might look cheap but unlike the N95, it does the basics properly.

You are right. I' ve heard many times that Symbian operating system gets very slow with time so it takes lots of time to access your inbox or phonebook.

Wingsy
Dec 2, 2008, 11:48 AM
Looking at the linked video, it took 4.3 seconds from the button press to the home screen. It won't take but a few days of this to piss off anyone who buys it.

fowler.
Dec 2, 2008, 11:49 AM
So it isn't windows mobile 9good cause that sucks anyway) and it isn't the iPhone OS, and it isn't Palm Based, is it Symbian Based?

I guess I am trying to figure out if it will have an apps or programs to run on besides what nokia puts on it?

Is it actually a "smart phone" or just another wolf in sheep's clothing? My definition of smart phone is a phone that can run programs besides the built-in watered down apps that come with the OS, programs that can be written by any company or anyone.

It's s60.... There are thousands of apps out there for it... How many of them are useful or good is debateable.. But then again, you could say the same of the app store :p

djdjek
Dec 2, 2008, 11:50 AM
Nice. Cant wait to put my hand on it. :)

iMouse
Dec 2, 2008, 11:50 AM
Is it just me, or does the UI look like one big cluster *******? The graphical performance in the movement of dashboard-like items and overall performance of the UI appears to be typical of low-end phones.

I missed the part where they actually dial or receive a phone call...afterall, it is a PHONE, right?

I think these companies fail to realize several things. Touchscreen is so 90's. Multi-touch is today. You see it in the iPhone/iPod and now the MacBook products. Even Microsoft has pushed a similar technology as part of their Surface computing device.

If you can touch one location on the screen at one time, you might as well just put a button on the thing.

H$R
Dec 2, 2008, 11:54 AM
holy cow. that's really a phone I would like. I already love the specs..slideout keyboard, 5 mp camera (though I wouldn't really need that), EXPANSION SLOT (to change data on the go without cables), 32GB! If the music player is comparable to the iPhone's than I could really see me buying this. Only advantage of the iPhone would be the app store and of course how it works together with the Mac.

itcheroni
Dec 2, 2008, 11:54 AM
I have a feeling rev. 3 of the iPhone will be significantly better than the current 3g version. If you consider the only difference between rev. 1 and rev. 2, in terms of hardware, is GPS and 3g, Apple has a lot of room to work.

JuicyGoo
Dec 2, 2008, 11:56 AM
Um... they didn't show any PHONE functions.... even though it's y'know, a PHONE.

JRTeK
Dec 2, 2008, 11:57 AM
my friend and i were talking about this phone before it got put on here... hes thinkin about getting it... I personally think its nice but there were a few things i told him i wasnt to sure about...


I dont think the OS is gonna be as smooth as the iphone is or the video shows it to be...
I dont like phones with moving parts (slides phones, flip phones, twist phones, etc.) cause they always break no matter how gentle u are with the phone...
nokia most likely isnt gonna update as often as the iphone does...
if it breaks or something happens to it, i cant just walk into a store and they'll switch it out on the spot...


those are a few things i mentioned to him... he said hes just tired of the iphone...

im hoping that apple will see these videos and pics of there future comp. and take in to consideration what they need to do to the next iphone to stay on top

Vkrati
Dec 2, 2008, 11:59 AM
I own an impressive sony ericsson K610i :p, which i bought for 100€. It has web access when i need it (3G), with opera browser the best. Buying me a nice Ipod touch will be sustantially less expensive than buying any all in one object, even like the iphone. I don't have anything against people who own one, but in Belgium we cannot have combined subscriptions with phones, so the iphone costs here about 525 euro, wonder what this Nokia will cost, normally around 850€ for new ones. That is just crazy in my opinion, i can almost buy a macbook for that price with my education discount. And i don't really like to take my superexpensive phone everywhere and lose it, so a cheap one will do in my opinion. So in the end I have the same functions only not in one for much less; except for GPS, but ok, in Belgium, everything is smaller :p

wheezy
Dec 2, 2008, 11:59 AM
Wow, the show-off video versus the hands on is very different. The animations on the show-off are much smoother, like an iphone. The hands on are clunky, and slow and slow. Did you see how the album art changes on the hands on? First it displays a generic icon and then flashes off to flash on the album art.

And as mentioned above, no one else has Multi-touch, it's all one touch. The zoom and such were all sliders, no fingers. It took Apple over 2 years to get the Multi-touch right, no way competitors will have anything like it for another year. It's taken them a year to develop a wanna-be that's lacking in many features.

cleanup
Dec 2, 2008, 12:00 PM
Looks slick! I'm probably never going to get an iPhone, because I wouldn't browse the web on the go/use GPS etc. very often anyways. Texting and a decent camera are more important to me. So this is a viable alternative, if I ever do traverse into the world of smartphones. I do love Nokia.

Graefe
Dec 2, 2008, 12:01 PM
That's great news! Strong competition will force Apple to make the iPhone even better. All consumers will benefit from this. And eventually I will buy the next generation iPhone: improved cam, modem functionality, A2DP/AVRCP - and contract free!

BigD58
Dec 2, 2008, 12:02 PM
That's great news! Strong competition will force Apple to make the iPhone even better. All consumers will benefit from this. And eventually I will buy the next generation iPhone: improved cam, modem functionality, A2DP/AVRCP - and contract free!

Oh that would be wonderful.

But once again, the iPhone still wins.:D

corygreenwell
Dec 2, 2008, 12:03 PM
For me, I hate the whole sidekick nature of thte device....BUT

the features are awesome...it's not tied to AT&T

and what's more...

innovation begets innovation. Apple needs someone keeping pace with them if the device is going to improve. Hopefully Apple reasseses where the iPhone is and improve it

GNice
Dec 2, 2008, 12:09 PM
The apps available for the iPhone will make it difficult for other phones to find their way into my pocket...BUT I love the competition. Apple needs to be pushed and I'm excited to see more companies attempting to create alternatives for the consumer. If a really good viable alternative (for me) comes out, I'll jump on it.

backdraft
Dec 2, 2008, 12:09 PM
The HTC G1 or Blackberry Bold/Storm are better competitors to the iPhone. I wouldn't mind 2 versions of the iPhone one with a slide out keyboard and the regular version.

robecq
Dec 2, 2008, 12:10 PM
I had a play with one (a friend works for nokia). Neat phone, but I found the UI confusing.

deannnnn
Dec 2, 2008, 12:11 PM
If the OS is as smooth and amazing as it looks, I'd get one in a second.
...but according to Arn, it isn't.
Not to mention I've never been a big Nokia fan.
:apple:

shiseiryu1
Dec 2, 2008, 12:11 PM
Wow, by the looks of that YouTube video it looks like a clunky piece of crap. When Jobs said the iPhone was years ahead of everyone else he wasn't talking about (only) hardware...it's the user interface that is years ahead of everyone else. Not just in looks but in usability and feel. Although I would like to have an iPhone with some better hardware specs (camera with flash for example), I'm not impressed by all these other phones that are coming out lately...the software is just not up to par with the iPhone.

deannnnn
Dec 2, 2008, 12:12 PM
The HTC G1 or Blackberry Bold/Storm are better competitors to the iPhone. I wouldn't mind 2 versions of the iPhone one with a slide out keyboard and the regular version.

That would involve Apple listening to their customers, so obviously it will never happen.

crees!
Dec 2, 2008, 12:12 PM
The demo looks nice and fluid; but when you watch the real life video there is no animation. For instance, you "flick" to change screens but the screen doesn't slide in the direction you flick, it just changes in the blink of an eye. This is where the iPhone devs get it and other do not. With touch interfaces like this you need that animation to convey to the user that their gestures are recognized and in fact the gesture you performed was properly executed.

BornAgainMac
Dec 2, 2008, 12:13 PM
Eventually, it will need to be iPhone compatible. As more and more apps are purchased, people will want to be able to run those apps on their phone. It will be like the IBM compatible phrase of the 80's.

applepies
Dec 2, 2008, 12:20 PM
I'm a N95 user and I love it very much.


iPhone:

Multitouch
Thinner
Nicer looking UI (maybe)
Slightly cheaper (compare unlocked prices, thou then again I'll probably get N97 fo free with a 1 year contract)


N97

Better camera (real camera vs a toy)
Video recording (quite decent quality too)
More stable OS (no crashing like with iPhone and Safari)
Multitasking
Over twice as much space
Smaller footprint
TV OUT
MMS
Copy & Paste
Flash
More apps
QWERTY keyboard
No need to jailbreak
Better looks
User replaceable battery
Better battery life (1,5 days of continuous music playback FTW!)
Complete bluetooth stack
Hi-Res screen


So yeah, I'll get one. Looking so forward to it!

dongmin
Dec 2, 2008, 12:21 PM
The Good

-Slide-out screen
-keyboard
-5 mp camera w/ video

The Bad
-Thickness
-OS
-No app store
-$700
-No firm ship date

The Ugly
-Interface
-Sluggishness
-Lack of any 'killer apps'

I left out the high-rez screen b/c I don't think the extra pixels add anything to a 3.5" screen. Really, the iPhone screen is sharp enough as is.

And the iPhone will undoubtedly be upgraded to 32gb by the time this thing actually ships sometime next year. So this is no real advantage.

Petje
Dec 2, 2008, 12:21 PM
Um... they didn't show any PHONE functions.... even though it's y'know, a PHONE.

I must agree with JuicyGoo.
Why don't they show of the phone function? Is it hard to find?

I like the iPhone because it the phone function is not secondary, and other apps do not interfere with the phone.

poundsmack
Dec 2, 2008, 12:25 PM
i would honestly take one of these over the iPhone any day. dont get me wrong i like the iPhone, but this suites my needs better.

/dev/toaster
Dec 2, 2008, 12:26 PM
I love how high Apple has set the bar, but I don't think Nokia realizes how far that bar is. Don't get me wrong, it looks like a cool device but its no iPhone.

roland.g
Dec 2, 2008, 12:30 PM
The Nokia video is hilarious. That's marketing for you.

JRTeK
Dec 2, 2008, 12:32 PM
The Nokia video is hilarious. That's marketing for you.
lol yup... "lets show these people what they really wanna see!"...."but what about the phone and the video chat?"...."what phone.... OH $H!T!!! we forgot the phone!!!"...."they wont notice as long as they can text"

Mac Brown
Dec 2, 2008, 12:33 PM
Promo video and youtube video are like night and day.

gkarris
Dec 2, 2008, 12:34 PM
$700 before subsidies? :eek: (Ballmer, where are you??? ;) ) Not in today's economy...

I heard it's not even coming to the US for another 18 months...

Too bad they didn't take cues from Apple, HTC (G1), and RIM (Storm). The sweet spot for a subsidized touchscreen smartphone is $199...

cameronjpu
Dec 2, 2008, 12:34 PM
Perhaps this will motivate Apple to increase the iPhone's capacity and offer some expandability.

This won't motivate Apple to offer expandability.

TheOrioles33
Dec 2, 2008, 12:35 PM
And as mentioned above, no one else has Multi-touch, it's all one touch. The zoom and such were all sliders, no fingers. It took Apple over 2 years to get the Multi-touch right, no way competitors will have anything like it for another year. It's taken them a year to develop a wanna-be that's lacking in many features.

Did'nt Apple patent multi-touch or something like that? Maybe thats why no one else has it.

roland.g
Dec 2, 2008, 12:35 PM
Shoot promo at 24 frames per minute, play promo at 24 frames per second.

"Wow! That's a snappy UI"

NOT

Biolizard
Dec 2, 2008, 12:36 PM
Not an iPhone killer. The hardware isn't a bad attempt and I don't mind the sidekick, but the software is holding it back. iPhone OS, whilst based on OS X, is relatively new whereas Symbian OS has been around for 10 years+; it just can't compete. Nokia need to get their new acquisition to rewrite the thing from scratch, and S60 could use a graphics overhaul while they're at it.

I do want Nokia to put out something that can compete though. The last thing we need is Apple getting arrogant because they have a massive market share.

cenetti
Dec 2, 2008, 12:36 PM
The Good
And the iPhone will undoubtedly be upgraded to 32gb by the time this thing actually ships sometime next year. So this is no real advantage.

I am bored with iphone. No MMS, No cut&paste, no Flash, toy camera with "impossible to take self portraits" interface. and NO GPS! ( oh yes, it has a chip for novelty purposes...lmao!)

Oh let's not forget the " OH you're one of those douche bags" comments I get everytime I use my phone.

Give me something new with all the options I mentioned above... I am gonE..
My last 2 phones been iphones...I am tired of waiting, all these firmware upgrades, still nothing useful. BAH!

Daremo
Dec 2, 2008, 12:37 PM
I love when products like this come out. It will hopefully force Apple to add in the features we've been missing, or create some new innovation to add in. Competition is great. The consumer always wins.

johncarync
Dec 2, 2008, 12:38 PM
This is the amazing phone they've been working on in a shroud of secrecy? A Symbian phone with a 5mp camera? Not groundbreaking at all. Nokia didn't even find it special enough themselves to give it a new name. It's the N97. Nokia also makes the N73, N75, N76, N78, N79, N81, N82, N85, N95, N96, and N810. This is yet another phone in an already crowded line.

daneoni
Dec 2, 2008, 12:44 PM
I am bored with iphone. No MMS, No cut&paste, no Flash, toy camera with "impossible to take self portraits" interface. and NO GPS! ( oh yes, it has a chip for novelty purposes...lmao!)

Oh let's not forget the " OH you're one of those douche bags" comments I get everytime I use my phone.

Give me something new with all the options I mentioned above... I am gonE..
My last 2 phones been iphones...I am tired of waiting, all these firmware upgrades, still nothing useful. BAH!

Amen. I like the iPhone but i'm bored of it now...gimme a viable alternative and its sayonara

applepies
Dec 2, 2008, 12:45 PM
Promo video and youtube video are like night and day.

Kind of like with the iPhone advertisement that was found illegal in the UK?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaN1Nz1Dyls


Only the difference is that this one here is a very early prototype (apparently hand built).

miketcool
Dec 2, 2008, 12:45 PM
What's interesting for Nokia is that they have been working for years on a touch interface. They have had this long project that is finally starting to see the light of day. Apple was in a better position because they had all the R&D done and just needed someone with direction to say, put the pieces together.

I have long respected Nokia, they make excellent phones. I feel part of this sluggishness that has come about in their mobiles is due to the acquisition of Symbian. The refinement is coming.

Nokia Road Map (http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_20082009_smartphone_roadmap_surfaces-news-670.php)

I am excited, I carry my phone primarily as a phone, and secondarily as a camera. My N82, only complaint is the speed of the OS. The last update fixed most of that.

happydude
Dec 2, 2008, 12:48 PM
I wouldn't mind if the OS is stable and responsive. But nokia bragging about the hardware alone just raise red flags in my head about their software. The UI seems cluttered on the video.

For the record, I'm still using an old non-camera phone.

agreed. as with many smartphones coming out now to compete against the iphone, i'd assume the software was ignored in order to rush out something that looks iphone-ish.

of course until these are in the wild, that's just speculation. from the movie, i'm not impressed. though if that thing can copy and paste . . . they're ahead of apple. . .

minik
Dec 2, 2008, 12:51 PM
As a current iPhone 3G user, I like the N97. The Symbian OS is pretty solid as well.

happydude
Dec 2, 2008, 12:51 PM
I am bored with iphone. No MMS, No cut&paste, no Flash, toy camera with "impossible to take self portraits" interface. and NO GPS! ( oh yes, it has a chip for novelty purposes...lmao!)

Oh let's not forget the " OH you're one of those douche bags" comments I get everytime I use my phone.

Give me something new with all the options I mentioned above... I am gonE..
My last 2 phones been iphones...I am tired of waiting, all these firmware upgrades, still nothing useful. BAH!

exactly. great we have street view. who the f$#k cares. i want the iphone to be functional for my work and life, not so i can see stupid views of times square.

TLewis
Dec 2, 2008, 12:51 PM
The hardware specs are impressive, but the severe lack of quality applications (compared to the iPhone) is a HUGE hurdle. Nokia's going to have a hard time in the US (although, from what little I understand, I'm guessing that this will sell well in Europe).

sandman42
Dec 2, 2008, 12:52 PM
I doubt the Nokia phone will allow you to do all the things shown in the video in under a minute, as depicted. I wonder if they'll have to change their ads...

juanster
Dec 2, 2008, 12:53 PM
Amen. I like the iPhone but i'm bored of it now

I love the iPhone it has so much potential but firmware after firmware all we get is more "useless cool bloat". Sure it s nice to get street view. Sure it's very nice to get directions in our maps or emojicons. All great stuff. But what about stuff that that could actually be useful and people are asking for it. Landscape mail. Landscape SMS. Where is mms? Copy and paste? All hat kind of stuff.

Agathon
Dec 2, 2008, 12:55 PM
This phone is a joke. Nokia just don't get it.

It's the software, stupid.

You can put out all the great hardware you like, but if the software sucks/is antiquated, it's a non-starter. Symbian sucks almost as bad as Windows Mobile. Sure, it might be better than previous phones, but we are now talking about mobile computers, and people need a desktop class OS for those. Symbian ain't that.

The only true iPhone competitor is a touch screen phone running Google's Android OS.

TLewis
Dec 2, 2008, 12:56 PM
exactly. great we have street view. who the f$#k cares. i want the iphone to be functional for my work and life, not so i can see stupid views of times square.
I agree.

Unfortunately, street view appears to be one of those, "Oooh, shiny", features that attract customers, much like the way moths are drawn to lights.

Aaargh!
Dec 2, 2008, 12:57 PM
I'm a N95 user and I love it very much.

I'm a J2ME developer and the N95 is a slow piece of crap. It's really horribly slow. N96 is even worse, that thing is so slow, it's not even funny.

N97

Better camera (real camera vs a toy)

Both are toys. No phone has a real camera, there simply isn't enough room for the lens.

Video recording (quite decent quality too)

Ack. Never used it but it's a plus for the nokia.

More stable OS (no crashing like with iPhone and Safari)

Symbian S60 stable ? Hah!

Multitasking

Nice, but very confusing for end users.

Over twice as much space

Indeed quite nice (Hey Apple, where is iPhone 64 GB?)

Smaller footprint

Can be a selling point.

TV OUT

iPhone also has TV-OUT.

MMS

Owned several phones with that feature, never used it.

Copy & Paste

That's a big problem with the current iPhone OS.

Flash

Flash lite, don't expect everything to work properly.

More apps

What are you smoking ? The apps and the ease of installation are the biggest selling point for iPhone. I've got more apps on my iPhone now than I ever did on my Nokia. I actually have *paid* apps now, never bought an app for my Nokia.

And I'm a freaking mobile phone developer

QWERTY keyboard

iPhone has QWERTY too, and AZERTY and QWERTZ and chinese, japanese, etc. etc.

No need to jailbreak

No need to jailbreak iPhone either.

Better looks

Personal preference

User replaceable battery

Correct, but I've never ever replaced a battery on any of the phones I've used.

Better battery life (1,5 days of continuous music playback FTW!)

Couldn't care less, iPhones battery life is more than adequate for me

Complete bluetooth stack

That's an advantage for Nokia.

Hi-Res screen

That's a disadvantage, especially because the N97 probably won't have the horsepower to drive it properly. It'll mean that the phone will be unusably slooooow, just like the N96, that thing is literally unusable for day-to-day use and it has a normal screen.

So yeah, I'll get one. Looking so forward to it!
We'll get one at work, and I'll give it a good test drive.

TLewis
Dec 2, 2008, 01:00 PM
I love the iPhone it has so much potential but firmware after firmware all we get is more "useless cool bloat". Sure it s nice to get street view. Sure it's very nice to get directions in our maps or emojicons. All great stuff. But what about stuff that that could actually be useful and people are asking for it. Landscape mail. Landscape SMS. Where is mms? Copy and paste? All hat kind of stuff.
We'll only get those once the G1 and N97 start putting pressure on Apple. Frankly, I think we only got street view because of the G1's bragging rights. If it wasn't for that, I don't think Apple would have added it.

bboucher790
Dec 2, 2008, 01:03 PM
The iPhone is great because of it's SIMPLE UI, not because it's flashy. It looks like OCD Tom put every bit of detail onto a 3.5 inch display. It looks cool, but it's not functional. I'll take the iPhone's UI over Nokia's any day of the week, EVEN if Nokia's OS was as smooth as what was shown in the video.

No multi-touch, no thanks.
Qwerty? I type fine on my iPhone. Make the phone slim.
App Store? Nope. Best feature since the iPhone was released.
Seemless integration with iTunes? Nope.

It will be hard to sway me from the iPhone's UI....it's just that good. Apple just needs to add a few standard features and they will have themselves a perfect phone.

kockgunner
Dec 2, 2008, 01:07 PM
nokia should be slapped with those false advertisement claims :D

applepies
Dec 2, 2008, 01:11 PM
I'm a J2ME developer and the N95 is a slow piece of crap. It's really horribly slow. N96 is even worse, that thing is so slow, it's not even funny.


All the core functions start at least as quickly as iPhone's. No secret that early firmware of N95 was really buggy but later (mine is 30.0.015) is rock solid. Has not crashed / frozen on me even once.



Both are toys. No phone has a real camera, there simply isn't enough room for the lens.


Well N95's is enough for me. iPhone's on the other hand would not be.



Nice, but very confusing for end users.


How is multitasking confusing for the end user? What's confusing of listening to music and browsing the web at the same time? Switching between apps takes 1 push of a button..



iPhone also has TV-OUT.


Really?



Owned several phones with that feature, never used it.


Well they're plenty popular here..



And I'm a freaking mobile phone developer


Then you should appreciate the fact that Nokia does not dictate what kind of apps you can release and restrict your access to the phone's functions.



iPhone has QWERTY too, and AZERTY and QWERTZ and chinese, japanese, etc. etc.


Tactile is still way way better.



No need to jailbreak iPhone either.


Depends on what you want to do. iPhone's usage is very restricted.



Couldn't care less, iPhones battery life is more than adequate for me


Battery life is one of those things where more is always better.

j-a-x
Dec 2, 2008, 01:11 PM
One problem with Nokia is they can never match the integration on the PC side. My old nokia could sync with my mac via Bluetooth, but there was nothing as good as iTunes from Nokia...

Bonte
Dec 2, 2008, 01:12 PM
lol, another advertisement to get banned in the UK. :rolleyes:

dongmin
Dec 2, 2008, 01:14 PM
Remember that the N97 is probably still 6 months out (probably longer for the US market). They're saying 1st half 2009. Apple will introduce a new toy at MWSF for sure and the N97 will be outdated before it even hits the market.

applepies
Dec 2, 2008, 01:15 PM
One problem with Nokia is they can never match the integration on the PC side. My old nokia could sync with my mac via Bluetooth, but there was nothing as good as iTunes from Nokia...

Really? I can sync my N95 with my MacBook over bluetooth and cable. iPhoto, iTunes, iCal all just work :apple:

edit. oh yeah and tethering of course. Something iPhone can't do (unless you jailbreak) :D kind of ironic

http://europe.nokia.com/A4423133

To me all this "iPhone killer" talk is a bunch of nonsense because as far as I'm concerned iPhone was dead already when it was first released. "Just works" philosophy is great, it's just that iPhone does not provide.

kendogolf
Dec 2, 2008, 01:16 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5G77 Safari/525.20)

If the OS is decent and its 3G compatible, I wouldn't mind one.

I'm wondering what a tactile touchpad would feel like...

EDIT; the interface looks fairly terrible. If I was gonna spend the money, I'd get myself an iPhone.

It's not a apple killer. It's going to be hard for a compeater to beat the overall experience that Apple brings to the table.

Shackler
Dec 2, 2008, 01:17 PM
I'm so surprised at how defensive iPhone users get when better spec phone comes out. Everything is useless until Apple adds it to the iPhone. You are really complaining about a sluggish OS considering it never came out yet? if it was perfect it would be out! the first iphone was announced 6 months before it came out and it will be the same thing with this phone. and another thing i have to say about a sluggish OS is 2.0, im sure that was a great iphone experience.

Don't get me wrong i love the iPhone it is an AMAZING device but its not perfect and its not for everyone that is why there will NEVER be a best phone period. Just the best for you. and there will NEVER be an iphone killer the os is light years ahead of everyone and its arguably the best (i think it is) full touch screen phone out.

yoak
Dec 2, 2008, 01:20 PM
I still use my 6110 Navigator together with my iPhone. The GPS is great and sms loads instantly. On my iPhone they can take up to 10 sec to load.
I was hoping to be able have everything I need in one phone, but the N97 won´t be it.
Maybe one day the iPhone will be that phone?

roland.g
Dec 2, 2008, 01:30 PM
I used to be a huge Nokia fan. All my phones except one had been Nokias. My last Nokia phone was probably the nicest phone I ever owned: a Nokia 8801. It was sleek, had a great weight to it, the stainless steel body was virtually unscratchable, and like all Nokias it has a superb glass screen. It wasn't a touchscreen or a smartphone and it had smaller buttons which I didn't mind because I have long thin fingers. It was $800 plus with a slider mechanism that used ball bearings made by a german company that supplies bearings for Porsche. It was a great phone that I intended to have for quite a while. A year and a half after getting it the iPhone was released. I had no intention of getting it, had no desire for a smartphone, thought at best I would get another year out of my Nokia and then get an iPhone. Then I demoed the iPhone about 2 weeks after release and bought one, paying my termination fee to my cell provider and putting my beloved Nokia in a drawer. Haven't looked back.

JoeDRC
Dec 2, 2008, 01:31 PM
nice specs but it looks like nokia are too scared(or don't have the resources) to implement a touch screen keyboard as opposed to a slidey out one

jfanning
Dec 2, 2008, 01:36 PM
You are right. I' ve heard many times that Symbian operating system gets very slow with time so it takes lots of time to access your inbox or phonebook.

You heard wrong

jfanning
Dec 2, 2008, 01:37 PM
nice specs but it looks like nokia are too scared(or don't have the resources) to implement a touch screen keyboard as opposed to a slidey out one

Why don't you open your eyes and look at the video, the one that shows the touch screen keyboard

arkmannj
Dec 2, 2008, 01:40 PM
Does it have Copy and Paste ?

mavis
Dec 2, 2008, 01:47 PM
So you're slagging them off for giving a better spec than you could ever need?

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Nokia fan, I haven't owned one or wanted one for years, I just don't see why you'd have a dig over things that are better than Apple provide.
Good question. Besides, the more phones blow the iPhone out of the water in terms of specs, the sooner we're going to see hardware upgrades on the iPhone.

I wonder if they managed to implement a copy/paste system on that thing?

Dreamer2go
Dec 2, 2008, 01:47 PM
I'm so surprised at how defensive iPhone users get when better spec phone comes out. Everything is useless until Apple adds it to the iPhone. You are really complaining about a sluggish OS considering it never came out yet? if it was perfect it would be out! the first iphone was announced 6 months before it came out and it will be the same thing with this phone. and another thing i have to say about a sluggish OS is 2.0, im sure that was a great iphone experience.


I know the tech in iPhone might not be as high tech as N97 (2.0MP vs 5MP camera, or more memory), but the software of Apple's is the best ever.
I've use to own a few nokia phones, and I hated the Symbian OS...it's terribily slow. (Especially the N series)
Software wise, iPhone cannot be beaten.

Quite frankly, I think the software is more important than the hardware. If the software fails, then the hardware is useless.

zacman
Dec 2, 2008, 01:48 PM
Does it have Copy and Paste ?

And Nokia even ships a navigation program with it by default... :eek: Plus there are probably around 10 other alternatives available for S60.

freeny
Dec 2, 2008, 01:49 PM
the video, camera and storage capabilities look promising :)
me likey

firewood
Dec 2, 2008, 01:52 PM
Eventually, it will need to be iPhone compatible. As more and more apps are purchased, people will want to be able to run those apps on their phone. It will be like the IBM compatible phrase of the 80's.

Palm sure blew it. Once upon a time, Palm had over 70% of the market, thousands of developers, thousands of new apps, a big popular app store (PalmGear), and the same well-regarded SDK that most Mac developers used (Metrowerks). They were the IBM compatible of handheld devices of the late 90's. No longer.

Apple has patents on their UI technology, will strongly protect it, control it, and keep enhancing it so that it does not become stale.


.

roland.g
Dec 2, 2008, 01:56 PM
Apple makes:

Computers
iPods
iPhone
Software
OS

Nokia makes:

Phones (and tons of models)

only recently acquired the OS that runs on some of them.

Apple makes one phone product and Nokia tons of phones and have been for years. Of course on a lineup basis they can put out products that best Apple's iPhone in terms of specs. Partly because that is their only industry. Partly because Apple has chosen to make one model essentially to try and bring as much together as possible, cater to a wide audience, but at the same time has to make decisions on what to do and what not to.

The comparison isn't really there. And yet the iPhone OS will kill the Nokia OS every time.

sjo
Dec 2, 2008, 01:58 PM
Does it have Copy and Paste ?

of course it has. all symbian phones have c&p and all symbian phones have had c&p since day 1.

ArtOfWarfare
Dec 2, 2008, 01:59 PM
Seriously, wth?

It's just a smartphone. It's not a computer. It's not even an iPhone.

I didn't see anything fun about it. It looks like Vista to me. Big numbers with lots of flash and fuzz but nothing actually worth upgrading for.

bki122689
Dec 2, 2008, 02:05 PM
hmmmmm impressive
but iphone wins

first off their browser does not look better than iphone.
and it's a bit thick

YahonMaizosz
Dec 2, 2008, 02:11 PM
There are lots of bias comments here...:rolleyes:

So typical when competitors released new products that *Could* have a potential to beat Apple's own offerings....

Dagless
Dec 2, 2008, 02:13 PM
Slideout keyboard? Good God that looks fugly. I'll take the iPhone still please.

Great that we finally moved out of the "iPod killer" series of MP3 players only to land right in the "iPhone killer". I doubt any of these machines are going to impact the iPhone.

HiRez
Dec 2, 2008, 02:30 PM
Just the thickness alone is the turn off for me. Though i must admit the OS does look nice.It does?? Compared to what? Fugly.

View
Dec 2, 2008, 02:31 PM
Nice specs, but it looks a bit too thick for my pockets...

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/12/sany0053.jpg


And it's interesting that they completely pulled out of Japan (http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/27/nokia-pulls-out-of-japan-nobody-notices/) just before they announced it.

I think it is pretty thin considering that it has the slide out keyboard.
But that doesn't make me like it...

Nuvi
Dec 2, 2008, 02:55 PM
IMHO, this is first real threat to iPhone. Spec wise it butchers the iPhone (honestly, there is no point denying it). However the GUI isn't as smooth as iPhone GUI (however, it is said its only a prototype). Fact remains its thicker but then again it has real keyboard... On N97 you get real maps with real voice guided (car) navigation and it even has compass so it knows which direction you are facing (extremely handy when you are walking to your destination). It has 32GB (internal) + 32GB (SD slot) of memory (drool) and I'll bet it has copy & paste...

I hope Apple really pays attentions and releases an iPhone with similar feature sets and specs. However, what will it mean to rest of Apple development? (aka I want my Snow Leopard) Anyway, this is definitely interesting phone and it will probably be extremely popular. If Apple doesn't deliver I know where I'm heading.

cenetti
Dec 2, 2008, 02:56 PM
Apple makes:
The comparison isn't really there. And yet the iPhone OS will kill the Nokia OS every time.

How so? IphoneOS doesn't even have copy/paste, can't even display "flash" content!! Oh but its pretty, right?
Yea..thats what Iphone is all about "pretty, shiny toy" Too bad it took me 2 iphones and an Ipod touch to realize that.

Been there, seen it. Now I need efficiency, something actually works.
-No more finding a pen and paper to write down things because of stupid copy and paste
-No more "Oh, I need to find a computer to display that website" because of flash content!
-No more "Oh, I need to carry my portable GPS and its accessories with me"
-No more " PLEASE ! Don't send mms to me...it's too much trouble" warnings!

but hey...I can play ocarina on my iphone....lmao!
It's a toy nothing more!

Rewes
Dec 2, 2008, 03:05 PM
It's funny and somewhat sad how some people are actually trying to have serious conversation about a non-Apple product on an Apple fan forum.

Recipe for disaster.

Nuvi
Dec 2, 2008, 03:10 PM
Recipe for disaster.

:D ...or some interesting reading. Anyway, its always fun to see HC fanboys going crazy.

Hawkeye411
Dec 2, 2008, 03:18 PM
Looks pretty cool. I wish my iPhone had a similar keyboard. I think it would be easier to type emails etc..

ipoppy
Dec 2, 2008, 03:19 PM
I got question.....
Why Apple not giving us:
1. Navigation app like TomTom
2. MMS
3. Copy/Paste
4. Video recording
5. Built-in digital TV receiver
... and other useful features which can be found in all smart phones apart from iPhone?
Or I will change question....
Why Apple got that strange strategy of not telling anyone why they did that this way but not that way? Why they never answer any questions from customers. Why Why Why?
The reason I am asking is that I think iPhone is just prototype, which still can make money for Apple. I can live with this prototype but its really ANNOYING why Apple don't make any comments about most requested features. Is it really hard for Apple to say "TomTom will be avaialble before end of the year" or" we having problem to make proper appfor video recording .It will take time". At least I know what I can expect then. For now I keep my iPhone in my hand and I wonder if I will ever see any of these features... which is again very ANNOYING.
:mad::mad::mad:

arkmannj
Dec 2, 2008, 03:21 PM
of course it has. all symbian phones have c&p and all symbian phones have had c&p since day 1.

Thanks, I was mostly just being an annoying putz, Yes I'm one of those iPhone users always whining that my iPhone doesn't have such a basic function.

:: Heads off to the whining party at http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html once again..anyone else wanna join in ?::

bloodycape
Dec 2, 2008, 03:24 PM
nokia most likely isnt gonna update as often as the iphone does...
if it breaks or something happens to it, i cant just walk into a store and they'll switch it out on the spot...
[/LIST]


I know there is a Nokia store in Chicago, been told of one in NY and Florida, and I have seen one in Los Angeles so there are a few stores. Then again if this gets picked up by a carrier then all you need to do is walk into the carriers store and get a replacement.

ZzBoG
Dec 2, 2008, 03:30 PM
It's just better, than Iphone, sorry.

nanoboy
Dec 2, 2008, 03:38 PM
I got question.....
Why Apple not giving us:
1. Navigation app like TomTom
2. MMS
3. Copy/Paste
4. Video recording
5. Built-in digital TV receiver
... and other useful features which can be found in all smart phones apart from iPhone?
Or I will change question....
Why Apple got that strange strategy of not telling anyone why they did that this way but not that way? Why they never answer any questions from customers. Why Why Why?
The reason I am asking is that I think iPhone is just prototype, which still can make money for Apple. I can live with this prototype but its really ANNOYING why Apple don't make any comments about most requested features. Is it really hard for Apple to say "TomTom will be avaialble before end of the year" or" we having problem to make proper appfor video recording .It will take time". At least I know what I can expect then. For now I keep my iPhone in my hand and I wonder if I will ever see any of this features... which is again very ANNOYING.
:mad::mad::mad:

Tom Tom type navigation was announced to be underdevelopment by the company behind Tom Tom itself since the day iPhone 3G came out. Dunno what took them so long. But that's the thing in product design though, you need to go through numerous iterations of design and test cycles, it's hard to make concrete prediction as to when it'll be ready, sometimes.

Yes i agree with you there that I dunno why copy/paste and MMS are so hard for Apple. Although a TV tuner I think is an overkill for a mobile phone. PSP has it now but it's more suitable because its screen is slightly bigger than iPhone.

The old saying, competition is good for the consumers. Don't you worry - just like how every other company has been working on copying the iPhone rev 1 since the first day it came out, I'm sure Apple has been working on the iPhone rev 3 behind the scene ever since the first day iPhone 3G was out the door this year. It'd be a major release with new features/specs that'd make it stand out from the wannabes. :apple:

bloodycape
Dec 2, 2008, 03:40 PM
Apple makes:

Computers
iPods
iPhone
Software
OS

Nokia makes:

Phones (and tons of models)
Internet Tablets
GPS devices

fixed

mrmayor92
Dec 2, 2008, 03:46 PM
i think this phone actually looks great ill def be keeping an eye on it


any word on how much it will cost on a contract and what service it will use in the u.s?

Nuvi
Dec 2, 2008, 03:50 PM
Tom Tom type navigation was announced to be underdevelopment by the company behind Tom Tom itself since the day iPhone 3G came out. Dunno what took them so long.

The development was cancelled for some reason. The internal GPS wasn't good enough and external BT GPS couldn't be used, are the most common explanations. Its also said that TomTom and Apple didn't get along... Anyway, Nokia also bought the biggest map provider Navteq and TomTom bought the second biggest, Teleatlas. Actually those are the only global mapping data providers.

ipoppy
Dec 2, 2008, 04:07 PM
Tom Tom type navigation was announced to be underdevelopment by the company behind Tom Tom itself since the day iPhone 3G came out. Dunno what took them so long. But that's the thing in product design though, you need to go through numerous iterations of design and test cycles, it's hard to make concrete prediction as to when it'll be ready, sometimes.

Yes i agree with you there that I dunno why copy/paste and MMS are so hard for Apple. Although a TV tuner I think is an overkill for a mobile phone. PSP has it now but it's more suitable because its screen is slightly bigger than iPhone.

The old saying, competition is good for the consumers. Don't you worry - just like how every other company has been working on copying the iPhone rev 1 since the first day it came out, I'm sure Apple has been working on the iPhone rev 3 behind the scene ever since the first day iPhone 3G was out the door this year. It'd be a major release with new features/specs that'd make it stand out from the wannabes. :apple:


Thanks for reply. Your comment probably is not far away from truth but all this is just a guess. And thats what is annoying about Apple because it shouldn't be hard for them to tell what is behind scenes. At least some little glitch of what they up to with software. Why other companies they do that but Apple don't?


The development was cancelled for some reason. The internal GPS wasn't good enough and external BT GPS couldn't be used, are the most common explanations. Its also said that TomTom and Apple didn't get along... Anyway, Nokia also bought the biggest map provider Navteq and TomTom bought the second biggest, Teleatlas. Actually those are the only global mapping data providers.

It make sense but also I heard this on one of Mac forums:

"TomTom's Navigator System for PDAs retails for $49.99, so I imagine that they would want to charge Apple a similar premium for each license, thus increasing the cost of the iPhone. Google Maps, however, is free to implement, thus providing us with a nice Map/Direction application for the iPhone's built-in GPS at no additional cost. According to the rumors, Apple and Google are working on a turn-by-turn navigation system for the iPhone, so we will see TomTom-like features eventually.

Video recording is currently being worked on by several third-party application developers. From what I understand, video recording is simple, but recording video with audio is causing some problems. My guess is that we'll see third-party video recording applications within the next few months"

It would make sense too. But come on Apple...just tell us!!!

applepies
Dec 2, 2008, 04:07 PM
fixed

Phones (and tons of models)
Internet Tablets
GPS devices
Networks
OS
Software
Radios
Headsets
Speakers
And a lot more



Fixed :)

Mr Maui
Dec 2, 2008, 04:15 PM
Lightning fast? What are you, a turtle? I've had every high end Nokia phone for the last 7 years up to the N96, of which I had 3 and had to return them all for defects. S60 is S L O W. FP2 is better, but still slow. Now remember, i am comparing this to the iPhone. In no way can S60 be considered lightning fast.

Unless you're a turtle....

:-))


WHO NEEDS LIGHTNING FAST!!!! WE HATE FAST!!!! GO PLAY WITH YOUR iPHONE ON SOMEONE ELSE'S TIME!!!

Nuvi
Dec 2, 2008, 04:30 PM
"TomTom's Navigator System for PDAs retails for $49.99, so I imagine that they would want to charge Apple a similar premium for each license, thus increasing the cost of the iPhone. Google Maps, however, is free to implement, thus providing us with a nice Map/Direction application for the iPhone's built-in GPS at no additional cost. According to the rumors, Apple and Google are working on a turn-by-turn navigation system for the iPhone, so we will see TomTom-like features eventually.

The navigator app was meant to be sold on app store along the maps. The price for app and maps was estimated to be over $100.

There is no way you can have downloaded mapping data using google. Google gets their maps from Navteq and Teleatlas. Google has license for on-line use but distribution of real maps would be serious breach of contract. Hence no turn-by-turn navigation. If Apple wants serious navigation they need to play nice either with Navteq (Nokia) or Teleatlas (TomTom - already tried but didn't work).

ipoppy
Dec 2, 2008, 04:38 PM
If Apple wants serious navigation they need to play nice either with Navteq (Nokia) or Teleatlas (TomTom - already tried but didn't work).

Its not matter of "want"...they must have it one way or another to stay competitive. For me its most important thing missing from iPhone at this moment. If Apple won't release turn-by-turn with at least iPhone v3 I will be looking somewhere else then....with probably many others too.

ivladster
Dec 2, 2008, 04:43 PM
So funny, how all these iPhone wanna-bes show these cool videos, like HTC and LG. They look amazing. When the actual phone comes out everyone pukes. I mean Nokia is one of the Pros in Phone Market, now that's a real competitor. It took them 2 years to develop this kid of phone after iPhone was shown. Its about right.

nobandsland
Dec 2, 2008, 05:09 PM
Phones (and tons of models)
Internet Tablets
GPS devices
Networks
OS
Software
Radios
Headsets
Speakers
And a lot more



Fixed :)
...and Nokia used to produce: televisions, computers, computer displays, WLAN products, digital television receivers (set-top boxes), ADSL modems, ...

Thus, Nokia has quite a lot experience (since 1865, in fact ;))

Dagless
Dec 2, 2008, 05:25 PM
5. Built-in digital TV receiver

Lol, come on now. Mobile TV signal is terrible in the UK and last time I checked was only available in London, Oxford and Cambridge. And have you tried using portable DVB-T recievers? Good gravy they have worse coverage than DAB when in motion.

Besides BBC 1 and 2 will be (if not already) live on the iPlayer. Internet will be bringing TV to phones, not systems that were designed for fixed positions and aerials high on rooftops.

Dagless
Dec 2, 2008, 05:28 PM
It has 32GB (internal) + 32GB (SD slot) of memory (drool)

Where did you hear this? According to the Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N97) it supports up to 16gb external, not 32.

angelneo
Dec 2, 2008, 05:46 PM
Personally, I don't understand why is there an obsession with cameras on our phone, I agreed it's nice to take a photo (esp as evidence :D) but do you really need a 5-8MP camera on your phone? with special lenses?

EDIT: Just saw the promo video, err... the UI is really different from the hands on video at engadget. The actual UI is not as slick as the one in promo, not even close

DOUBLE EDIT: Typo, oops

chameleon81
Dec 2, 2008, 06:12 PM
Personally, I understand why is there an obsession with cameras on our phone, I agreed it's nice to take a photo (esp as evidence :D) but do you really need a 5-8MP camera on your phone? with special lenses?

EDIT: Just saw the promo video, err... the UI is really different from the hands on video at engadget. The actual UI is not as slick as the one in promo, not even close

I need :) not 8 but 5 is good. I know capturing a picture is not about pixels but iPhone' s 2 meg camera can not take good pictures in my standard.

Because of this reason I bought Omnia when it was launched and returned it in 2 weeks because of the ridiculous touch screen .

abijnk
Dec 2, 2008, 06:14 PM
nice looking phone. Resistive touch screen kills it for me though. Having owned both, capacitive is the way to go.

Nuvi
Dec 2, 2008, 06:16 PM
Where did you hear this? According to the Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N97) it supports up to 16gb external, not 32.

Apparently it was said by one of their directors heading N-series development. I found an interview when I searched info about N97. Tried to find it again but couldn't. Anyway, sounds right since N97 uses microSDHC slot. However, there isn't any 32GB microSDHC cards available yet so that might explain why wiki has 16 GB as max external memory or I might have got it all wrong and the max external memory is hardware limited to 16GB.

bruinsrme
Dec 2, 2008, 06:23 PM
Apparently it was said by one of their directors heading N-series development. I found an interview when I searched info about N97. Tried to find it again but couldn't. Anyway, sounds right since N97 uses microSDHC slot. However, there isn't any 32GB microSDHC cards available yet so that might explain why wiki has 16 GB as max external memory or I might have got it all wrong and the max external memory is hardware limited to 16GB.

I thought it said 32G on board with an expansion of 16G via microsdhc

t0mat0
Dec 2, 2008, 06:41 PM
I got question.....
Why Apple not giving us: For now I keep my iPhone in my hand and I wonder if I will ever see any of these features... which is again very ANNOYING.
:mad::mad::mad:

The N97 isn't slated to be released for several months, one not so minor point in discussing it.

A feature in the hand is worth 2 in the press release...

winterspan
Dec 2, 2008, 06:46 PM
My first thought is WHAT A FRAUD. The interface on the phone in the video is obviously pre-rendered. whether or not Apple and other companies do the same thing I don't know, but it certainly is the most blatant example.. Seriously the interface speed and fluidity is NOWHERE NEAR what is shown on the video. Even the iPhone, which has the fastest interface animation/transition can't do what they show.

Now I'm not a Nokia-hater. This hardware looks good if a little bit thick, and definitely has some standout hardware features like 32GB flash, 5MP camera with autofocus/flash, high resolution screen (although it is NOT a capacitive touchscreen, instead being a resistive model... similar to all the crappy touchscreen WinMo phones that work with a stylus and a finger. These are nowhere near as responsive as a capacitive model like the iPhone's display). I do wish Apple would take a cue from Nokia regarding the camera though, which is still a sore spot on the iPhone.

However, like all the other wannabe "iPhone killers" that have failed so miserably, they focus on the hardware and neglect the interface. Instead of building a new touch interface from the ground up, they simply bolt-on a touch layer to the existing ancient S60 code base, which is entirely conspicuous in the akward, cluttered, and unintuitive interface. I wish they would just throw S60 out of the window and simply add phone functionality to their Linux-based "Tablet OS 2008" that runs on their iPod-touch like "internet tablets".

The only interesting thing with this phone will be if they upgraded the processor and GPU to Texas Instruments OMAP3 line, which uses the new ARM Cortex-A8 core and PowerVR SGX graphics. Though if the platform is not sufficiently optimized it won't matter how much power you throw at it. Perhaps that is why this phone will not be released until H1 2009. I'd expect an iPhone v3.0 to be ready by then..

Saladinos
Dec 2, 2008, 07:12 PM
It's a technofile's wet dream. Still wouldn't buy one.

Since 2.2, my iPhone hasn't put a foot wrong. If anything, I'd replace it just because I've grown bored of it. Information is too hard to access, and the home screen and lock screen need some sort of a refresh to make it easier.

Still, these are minor flaws. Symbian has far greater ones. Overall, the iPhone's still the better choice.

Supa_Fly
Dec 2, 2008, 07:19 PM
Interface is where it's at. Nokia just doesn't have it.
Not about a touchscreen.
Not about a 5MP camera with Flash.
Not about a MP3 and Video player.
Not about widgets and apps.

It's about tying it all together and having a good user experience.

N97
Instinct
Storm
Omnia

None of them stack up. Sorry.

Really? Non of them stack up?

N97 has the breadth of apps that really allow the GUI to be used to its full potential beyond just using touch/multi-touch gimmicks. I so constantly day-day see iPhone users swiping the screen for pictures, making calls, and browsing pic/video library, or the odd game on the subway or at work for personal phones. I have yet to see an iphone user typing a response to an SMS or an email. Maybe its why it sells so well, as this is all most users want/need. But as time goes on, needs/wants grow ppls choices change.

A breadth of quality applications that give users a breadth of choices in what they wish to do - interaction, not reaction.

* OpenC, C++, Ruby, Py60 (Python), etc. ALL coding languages are possible and available for the past 4yrs.

* Many see the iPhone as an internet tablet and it does great. But the N97 (more than the N95/N82/5800/etc) is for Interaction between the web and a lifestyle for communications in various markets. I record my sons soccer/baseball game in 30fps video and with just 1 cable stop by my family's house or back home, plug into the TV and press menu> media> select the recording and play (simple & intuitive, faster if its already on my screen). I don't need to sync to my Mac/PC and download it, then project it to iTV and play. What if the Mac/PC is off when I arrive? Not a good solution for iPhone is it?

organerito
Dec 2, 2008, 07:53 PM
Hopefully my next phone! I'll keep my Ipod touch, though.

Supa_Fly
Dec 2, 2008, 08:18 PM
Wow I see a LOT of haters out there for Nokia and S60/Symbian without truely using it to its fullest potential.

Overkill phone is overkill...

* it may be for most ppl but for me its a perfect upgrade to my E71. I select my phones VERY carefully based on my needs and future goals/wants for use. I use a smartphone as an intermediate level.

It's got between now and WWDC to make it's mark i'd imagine.

Nokia handsets (apart from RIM's Blackberry models) do seem to be an alternative/prior phone for a fair few iPhone usrs - and quite a lot have N series phones. N96 seemed a bit bloated, and now N97 has been announced using S60 touch tech, it's outdated before it's really out.

Nokia has done photography well, and it's fair to compare the lack of video recording on the iPhone currently, and also the paucity of the camera sensor also. However, iPhone sure does a lot better than the N97 - with Nokia handsets still seemingly having a dose of ugly thrown in for good measure.

If Apple's kept their lead, I think it'll be v. interesting to see where things go (and if Intel can get that 64GB chip out, that'd be rather useful for the v3 iPhone presumably announced at WWDC (will Apple stay at the new version every year, bump in size in January?)
Seems the phones will play to their strengths. A lot of factors the N97 is touting now, might be de facto normal things come post-WWDC...

Well Nokia is the king of the smartphone world for a reason - not just the hardware. I'll touch on this later, but the N97 supports 64MB (32GB + 16GB MicroSD with later a 32GB by mid-2009). Remember its not just the hardware but the software & quality of the software that is supported - not just frivolous apps for "ooohs & aaahhhs" that do not deliver.

It's got between now and WWDC to make it's mark i'd imagine.

Nokia handsets (apart from RIM's Blackberry models) do seem to be an alternative/prior phone for a fair few iPhone usrs - and quite a lot have N series phones. N96 seemed a bit bloated, and now N97 has been announced using S60 touch tech, it's outdated before it's really out.

Nokia has done photography well, and it's fair to compare the lack of video recording on the iPhone currently, and also the paucity of the camera sensor also. However, iPhone sure does a lot better than the N97 - with Nokia handsets still seemingly having a dose of ugly thrown in for good measure.

If Apple's kept their lead, I think it'll be v. interesting to see where things go (and if Intel can get that 64GB chip out, that'd be rather useful for the v3 iPhone presumably announced at WWDC (will Apple stay at the new version every year, bump in size in January?)
Seems the phones will play to their strengths. A lot of factors the N97 is touting now, might be de facto normal things come post-WWDC...

Well Nokia is the king of the smartphone world for a reason - not just the hardware. I'll touch on this later, but the N97 supports 64MB (32GB + 16GB MicroSD with later a 32GB by mid-2009). Remember its not just the hardware but the software & quality of the software that is supported - not just frivolous apps for "ooohs & aaahhhs" that do not deliver.

* Nokia understands varying world markets and is able to differentiate he OS into different hardware market segments on different pricing models retail or subsidized. Their not the largest manufacturer of cellphones for over a decade for no reason silly. Apple better understand this and make more than 1 iPhone product else it faces loosing its quickly gained market share and revenues.

* I'll agree that the menu's are a pain for some - yes SOME not all - of the simplest tweaks or changes (customizing profiles), yet the menu's can be changed by simply creating & installing a new THEME. Only WM offers this ability (not iPHone, not BlackBerry, or any other smartphone platform; Andriod has yet to add this).

* Stating that the touch OS is outdated before its released without something to back it up? How is it outdated.
- Name me another phone with WLAN (UPnP & VOIP support for Cisco/Avaya PBX networks), 3G/HSDPA 3.6Mbps, 5MP with autofocus & dual LED flash (supporting 30fps VGA video with 16:9 format), Touchscreen phone with or without full qwerty (with/out slide) ?? HTC Touch/Touch HD/Bold/Storm does not offer these specs. Although their OS is faster for 1-4 applications running. Try 10 and we'll see just how fast they are - sorry you cannot do that with the iPhone (can you even receive email while on a call? I know the hardware is capable but because a 3rd party ActiveSync email app is closed while browsing or calling does it run in the background? Or how about playing a game on the system)?

* iPhone had a deal with IBM to launch Lotus Notes Traveller - over 3-4mths ago yet its still not delivered ?? Its coming to S60 in less than 30 days after official announcement. That is corporate support - pull because there is just so many devices & users out there with different market segments across the entire world, not just simply 22-32 major country's.

Thats just a few things why Apple should consider the N97's potential. Why did Apple short change its users with a capable media device with a horrible camera that is outdated before design conception? Surely it wasn't to keep costs down - it was over $699 at initial launch and not everybody could get $199 on contract without loosing money for breaking an existing contract.

Supa_Fly
Dec 2, 2008, 08:50 PM
It's s60.... There are thousands of apps out there for it... How many of them are useful or good is debateable.. But then again, you could say the same of the app store :p


Useful apps for any OS is very very debateable. Only long term users of any smartphone or PDA in the past 12yrs can attest to duplicate apps that offer no usefulness above one another. I see this commonly on Palm OS 3.6-4.1/4.1.5.

Lets seee.

1) Mail for Exchange & RoadSync. Both are ActiveSync/MS Exchange apps for email/calendar synching in push mode. 1 offers synching subfolders, the other doesn't. The other offers contact synching with pictures on Exchange amonst other useful functions & more stability. VERY useful function from 1 app over the other so usefulness of BOTH are considered non overlapping. A

2) Joiku SPot Light - free based app that turns the phones/provider APN to an WLAN Access Point (your phone) via WLAN. Much faster tethering than Bluetooth - no bottlenecks (yes BT 2.0+ has a bottleneck even though 2Mbps is fastest transport - overhead of the hopping protocol). I've had 2 laptops & 3 iphones tether on WLAN at VERY fast speeds using my Nokia E71 over Rogers internet APN. I was also browsing and only for me on the phone was slow while the iPhones where checking email/browsing sites/synching MobileMe, and the laptops both replicating in Notes>Domino 30MB dbs'.

3) CISCO VoIP & Avaya PBX applications for corporate office lines over WLAN encrypted work network to have the office phone ring on the phone.
- 3rd party apps like Fring and 3 others offer VOIP for a users' personal VOIP service (Vonage, etc) to be used. Another allows for free Nokia phone to Nokia phone over WLAN for VOIP no 3rd party provider needed and the APP & service is FREEE! NO ADDS.
NOTE: FRING has started ads in banner style for some users - economy pinch is hurting them, eventually for all. This will affect iPhone users' using FRING shortly.

4) Notes Traveller - Nokia struct a deal with IBM which this app will allow Domino replication & SameTime IM colloboration for corporate users who's admins support this.

5. Symella - think bittorent for mobile phones.

6. Mobile phone server - turn your S60 phone into a web server: over WLAN or VPN (even for FTP services) - yes some ppl need this as they don't have a PC or their PC is in HW repair or HDD recovery where failed backups to a server (corporate server) didn't occur.

7. NOkia Maps, Route66, WayFinder, etc etc - ALL allowing local maps to be downloaded to your phones memory or (bettery) storage card and allow for turn by turn services to be used over WLAN or APN where the only data is quick lookup over APN (can be turned OFF by user on PHONE or APPS), or data used on APN for Turn by TURN functions. Sure GoogleMaps is available in J2ME or native C++ code for S60 but when you see how limited its services are in comparison you'll understand what you've been missing. Nokia's Maps uses Navteq corp services/data/api's etc.

8. QuickOffice & PDF support for editing office documents (even PowerPoint if limited some editing is capable here- same goes for Palm OS, WM, or LinuxFoundation, Andriod again lagging for the moment).

9. Nokia Mail Beta/Nokia Messenger (new name), ProfiMail, etc etc - roughly 10 personal email applications (yes the built in sucks. Support for HTML is there but as in 'open attachment' form. Nokia is very smart what it doesn't change on the OS so that it doesn't snub out 3rd party developers). Nokia Mail has a great & clean simple interface for IMAP/POP3 synching over SSL or not. ProfiMail 3.0 supports the same and allows the app to follow your phones existing Theme - a very nice touch really astethic - but also for better reliable IMAP idle and new folder (more like tags support) for GMAIL. ProfiMail as an app, although only at v3 has been around for almost 10yrs the life of S60!!

10. ** Apps allowing the ability to record incoming/outgoing phone calls - even VM calls - in silent mode and starts up upon phone boot and saves to phone mem/storage card. VERY sneaky. I'm not naming the apps - their legal and 1 is free in shared user license - but in my country its illegal to use the recording against somebody in a court of law.

That a few of what I use just off the top of my head.

Symbian Foundation will unify the best of all Symbian based OS' (S60 & UIQ are just 2/5 or 6 of the OS' - 2 are specific to the Japanese/Korean markets and supported/created by providers there such as NTT DoCoMo which is apart of the Symbian Foundation). This hopefully be able to simplify the menu structure, Kanji or other script like penstroke inputs will be better supported over wider range of hardware choices. Don't knock a phones OS without understanding what its limits are or what its capable of. ;)

Sure S60 or Symbian is not for everybody - but remember to keep an open mind, surely over time the current iPhone design will become boring.

Looking at the linked video, it took 4.3 seconds from the button press to the home screen. It won't take but a few days of this to piss off anyone who buys it.

What button press? Which video? There are several on youtube already, so I'm unsure which you're refering too. If its for the 5800 XM "Tube" sure thats a little slow, but this N97 has a lot of functions refined. I'm still thinking its running on a cpu that is HALF the mhz speed of both the iPhone & BB Bold. The Nokia N96 (another S60, non-touchscreen) is horrible bloated with speed issues and already 4 FW updates since October launch. This N97 in prototype form already beats it in speed for many actions.


@CADer; GOD no! Palm is not and has never been Symbian OS based in any shape or form. Only Palm OS or WM on the Treo lineup in recent years. Their OS is pathetic and VERY old/long in the tooth. They could've went with ALP (a linux os) some 4-5yr ago but dropped it wasting 100's of millions, then tried again, again abondoning. I'm surprised their still a going-concern really.

QCassidy352
Dec 2, 2008, 08:54 PM
Call me in a few months when it's out and maybe I'll care.

No, actually I won't. Because the reason the iphone is so great is the same reason macs are great - the OS. Without that, the specs really don't matter because the user experience is going to suck. (oh, and no app store = no sale)

Tosser
Dec 2, 2008, 09:00 PM
...and Nokia used to produce: televisions, computers, computer displays, WLAN products, digital television receivers (set-top boxes), ADSL modems, ...

Thus, Nokia has quite a lot experience (since 1865, in fact ;))

Don't they also produce tyres? Or perhaps they sold that off or something (a la the IBM/Lenovo/thinkpad dealy)?

Stella
Dec 2, 2008, 09:16 PM
Seriously, wth?

It's just a smartphone. It's not a computer. It's not even an iPhone.

I didn't see anything fun about it. It looks like Vista to me. Big numbers with lots of flash and fuzz but nothing actually worth upgrading for.

You can do more on a Nokia smartphone than you can iPhone ( mainly due to Apple restrictions ).

It may well be termed 'smartphone', but really, it is a computer ( I'd like to know opinions otherwise ). Just like most other smartphones.

student_trap
Dec 2, 2008, 09:27 PM
a lot of nokia hate in this thread, so i thought id ad something a little different:

Firstly, let me state that i plan to get an iphone for my mother fairly soon, as it is so simple to use, but for me...

...I am very happy with my N95 8GB, and here's why:

1. I'm not sure about this 'its UI is slow' thing because it works as fast as any phone i have had before (infact, upon testing the iphones in the regent street apple store, i found the UI to be much more sluggish than my iPod touch 2G)

2. phone features, such as call quality, battery life, BT headset functionality and texting are all top notch

3. for my web use (mostly text based sites), it is so much faster than the iphone its unreal, which in all honesty is half of the reason why I don't have an iphone (NB the ui is gorgeous though, and over wifi speed problems do not apply). Every time that i have searched a website using O2's 3G, it takes literally enough time that i give up before the page has loaded, it is slower than my N95 on vodafone with gprs turned off.

4. as a photographer, the camera is important to me, and the N95 is one of the best options around.


There we go. At the moment, I prefer the N95 for day to day use. yes its boring, and I wish i could have its functionality in an iphone, but for the moment at least, it has been a very reliable handset:)

tuff1444
Dec 2, 2008, 09:37 PM
Why does Europe get things before we do?
I am tired of being last.

synth3tik
Dec 2, 2008, 09:40 PM
It looks like everything else and seems rather low end for a "flagship" product.:confused:

Stella
Dec 2, 2008, 09:41 PM
Why does Europe get things before we do?
I am tired of being last.

Probably because the north american cell phone market is rather small compared to other locations. Why would Nokia release in north america first when it could release to Europe and Asia, which are far larger markets?

Supa_Fly
Dec 2, 2008, 09:44 PM
The Good

-Slide-out screen
-keyboard
-5 mp camera w/ video

Also don't forget - Native support for:
-MMS
-PUSH Email for personal accounts beyond GMAIL or Yahoo - there are over 500 ISPs for push email support.
- Theme is VERY tweakable and FONTS can be changed with little know-how. Funny I thought OS X supported this & was part of the reason for creating Apple OS yet the iPhone doesn't support this natively? :O
- VGA video recording in standard 4:3 or 16:9 format!
- TV-OUT for that recorded video taken at 30FPS and playback in 30FPS or downloaded movies ;)


The Bad
-Thickness
-OS
-No app store
-$700
-No firm ship date

* Thickness, sure, but you're iPHone doesn't have a hardware QWERTY keyboard & I'll bet after a week of using it on the N79 you'll be typing faster, and more lenghty emails without IMHO, or other like abbreviations - not good for work email.
* OS is VERY VERY powerful, more than you know. FONT change support either via THEMES, or input by the user, FW updates are usually timely and OTA on APN (provider data connection), not just your PC ;). Not everybody carriers their iMac/MBP/MB/MacPro with them when travelling and needs bug fixes or more features. Support for FLASH Lite 3 - yes HTML flash sites do load in the webkit browser - something Nokia & Apple started some 2-3yrs back. Also note that C++ (original Symbian code base), OpenC, RUBY and Python (PyS60) applications ARE SUPPORTED. OS is inferior, say again? I thought so.
* $700 is the RETAIL unlocked/unbranded version. The iPhone in the USA is not more than $100 cheaper for the same deal. On contract this will be a LOT cheaper, maybe not $199/2yrs but maybe for 3yrs in the USA. most likely $299CAN on Rogers if it makes it on their subsidized list. Europe it'll be under $100EUro's for sure!
* No firm ship date IS a hurting thing. It could be sped up so that the current touch UI on the 5800 XM gets a fair shot at the same markets this'll be released. Also a version for 850/1900/2100Mhz HSDPA has yet to be announced, and maybe next month or in February. if So then FCC may take longer to certify. Most likely the real reason for the wait is for a much more powerful applications CPU with basebands & DLP imbedded is awaiting final production stages. Nokia has contracts with 7, yes 7 application CPU makers - which traditionally has slowed development amongst them all (who wants to fork out billions in a new CPU design that fits Nokia's demands, yet doesn't get picked for a mass-market device because of battery drain or no 3D HW accelleration imbedded or not fast enough). currently 369Mhz ARM 9 is the fastest application CPU in use on the E71 - but without HW video acceleration its slow for multimedia uses vs the N95/iPhone. N95/E90/N96/N85/N82 ALL make due with a 329-333/345mhz applications CPU with an internal baseband radio stack & WLAN support. DLP is imbedded on the E90/N95 chipset, but 3D video acceleration is on its own chip.


The Ugly
-Interface
-Sluggishness
-Lack of any 'killer apps'
- UI is theme changeable ... lookup TAT on S60 to see whats possible beyond themes for transitions.
- in time it will be refined. Remember they're not taking a computer OS and removing components out - their building on the foundations of a PDA (Psion anyone?) OS that has evolved over 10yrs.
* Killer apps? LMAO - FRING was first on S60, not iPhone or WM. Can you use an app for FREE VOIP to another iPHone user on ANY WLAN AP? is that app free? NO, but there is one for any Nokia WLAN capable phone ;). Does your iPhone support CISCO/AVAYA PBX? Both have yet to get Domino/SameTime replication/collaboration - but I'll go further in stating Notes Traveller from IBM will be available for S60 before the iPhone this month, possibly with more features as well. For the geeks, do you have an app that can map and give you engineer information about the tower you're connected too? Edit PDF documents? Setup your iPhone as a webserver (html access/VPN)? What about using Bittorent directly to your microSD card? Oh can you encrypt your internal memory? I'm still waiting though for a pharmaceutical db app for S60. There is one for Palm OS and WM.


* Can you replace your battery? Or do you have to walk into an AppleStore to do it? Do you have to ship it out of state if you don't have an AppleStore in your state/country? Does Apple reimburse you for the shipping charges if you have to ship for a new battery? Can you go to cnn.net for new replaceable parts should the screen of your iPhone get cracked? How long will Apple allow a brand new iPhone as a replacement in such a situation? Or how many times can you do this? Sorry if this is a low blow here.


I left out the high-rez screen b/c I don't think the extra pixels add anything to a 3.5" screen. Really, the iPhone screen is sharp enough as is.

And the iPhone will undoubtedly be upgraded to 32gb by the time this thing actually ships sometime next year. So this is no real advantage.

Change your fonts and maybe you'll see the difference in resolution? do that multi-touch pinch thing to zoom in and I'm SURE you'll see a reason for yet higher resolution at some zoom point in ANY phone. Multi-touch to be is a gimmick on a phone, unless I'm going to have an app mature enough to do finger painting or editing photos or handwritten signatures for legal documentation. Other than zooming into/out of pictures (can you do this for videos on the fly while playback is running?) what other daily use for multi-touch do you reall need? Are you going to CTRL+ALT+DEL your iPHone into a reboot??! :p Sorry I couldn't pass up the chance at that cheeky line.

Supa_Fly
Dec 2, 2008, 09:56 PM
@Aaargh! as a Java developer you'll already know that J2ME is secondary to C++, Open C, or RUBY or PyS60 on Symbian phones. J2ME is better run on feature phones like SonyEricsson's than S60 - that goes without saying let alone coding, n'est pas?

However, Many phones have a REAL camera lens and sensor matrix - its just you're not aware of them.

* SE K750i is CMOS based but if you really google you'll see it uses a bonafide Sony sensor & matrix used in a aslightly older phone.
* Casio in the Japanese market has the Exilim brand - truely a digital camera with optical zoom.
* Nokia N90/92/93 ALL have a digital camera sensor & matrix on CMOS/CCD and used in digital cameras.

The excuse of a digital camera being a gimmick is LONG gone man. Ppl take photos & video of accidents, loved ones, and even homicides/ assualts for evidence in public places. Heck I would've LOVED to have a cellphone with a camera 10 years ago where I could send my wife a picture of a shelf of pads she wanted me to buy along with bathroom supplies instead of being embarrased to ask - I PRAY you or anyone else doesn't need to go through that kind of pain, Ever see a brother blush?

TV-OUT is something recent for the iPhone but on a very proprietary cord no? I'd rather use standard cables.

Sometimes battery's fail, and if I'm not wrong even iPhones/iPods batterys have a limited life support - 90days? Should it fail, then what? Your options may not be the same fit for others.

Supa_Fly
Dec 2, 2008, 10:11 PM
Call me in a few months when it's out and maybe I'll care.

No, actually I won't. Because the reason the iphone is so great is the same reason macs are great - the OS. Without that, the specs really don't matter because the user experience is going to suck. (oh, and no app store = no sale)

There is an app store ... its called "Download!" yet its under-utilized. Its been there LONG before an AppStore concept was thought of by Apple. However Apples' AppSTore is limited by only Apple - which some users don't like - hence the reason for jailbreaking - funny term that is not called hacking. But look at RIM's model where its not controlled, and also support for an AppStore along side of RIMS where wireless providers, Forums - heck imagine your commaderies here making an app that was denied by Apple that many here want and its available by MacRumors AppStore ;) This is what RIM is doing - thinking different.

* Don't get me started on a better OS that isn't living up - How come touchscreen (heck MULTI-TOUCH is on Win7 in Alpha working on an HP retail hardware) not released by Apple themselves?!! Heck Modbook 3rd party had to do it first (?), and yet the iMac would be so AMAZING if Multi-touch was there ... they have the userbase wanting it and the market ALL ready to feed like crack-addicts for this; yet why the wait? A different discussion for another thread.

tveric
Dec 2, 2008, 10:15 PM
Overkill phone is overkill...

Fanboy alert!

Apparently every feature on the iPhone is awesome, any features on a competitor's phone is overkill.

bki122689
Dec 2, 2008, 11:03 PM
Fanboy alert!

Apparently every feature on the iPhone is awesome, any features on a competitor's phone is overkill.

lol its true people are so biased

NeonKingKong
Dec 2, 2008, 11:48 PM
Personally I've always been in favor of a mechanical keyboard. And though I love the iphone I was a little disappointed apple didn't come out with a really great phone that was cheap. Not a mini-computer like the iphone say, but doing a regular cell-phone better than anybody else. They called this the iphone mini. I think it could be done...

theLastBeatle
Dec 3, 2008, 12:15 AM
Lightning fast? What are you, a turtle?

:-))



LOL

Normally I frown at personal attacks is but the turtle comment was hilarious.

OS X Dude
Dec 3, 2008, 01:46 AM
All these iPhone fanboys make me laugh - if Nokia had released the iPhone and Apple the N97 you can guess how their opinions would change. I understand now why Apple fans are so hated in the tech world, even though I am one myself.

Like me, you spent a silly amount of money on ******. You bought it to pose with probably, or because it looked cool. Now crawl out of Jobs' ass and see it for what it really is.

I think I'm looking at my next phone with this. With Nokia's Phone Manager for Mac (or whatever their sync suite is called) coming out soon I won't even need to boot into Windows to get the full "experience" and features out of the N97.

thejedipunk
Dec 3, 2008, 02:05 AM
Did anyone here actually bother to do a little research before they typed out their arrogance?

http://www.s60.com/life/application

I'm amazed at the amount of naïve people on this forum. Several of the people that have replied to this thread have maintained a narrow mindset. The iPhone is not the Jesus phone that it was hyped up to be. I accept that it is a landmark device and extremely influential, but I choose not to own one based on first hand experience.

I feel that the idea of multi-touch is merely a gimmick still in its infancy. The lack of features such as stereo Bluetooth and MMS, while features I don't use on a regular basis, is simply inexcusable for a phone that is being marketed years ahead of the competition. I hate to repeat what has already been said, but the iPhone was obsolete at its introduction. It does not matter if you don't use MMS or even replace your battery every three days. The fact is that these are features that standard throughout the cell phone market.

On the subject of the sluggishness of the S60 OS presented in that demonstration video, let's keep in mind that the phone has yet to reach production. As for the promotional video, of course Nokia is going to exaggerate the speed. If you look at any iPhone commercial, they use the same tactic. That's advertisement. And don't most iPhone commercials show the capabilities of the device just as in the N97 promo? Sure Apple shows an incoming call at the end, but it's the same idea. You have to remember that it's not just the hardware that can cause sluggishness, but network strength as well.

Once again, the phone is only thick due to the presence of a physical keyboard. I'm willing to bet that the iPhone would be of the same thickness if it featured one as well. That is but one of the reasons why I like the N97. Too many times have I used an iPhone and I can never get used to its virtual keyboard. Perhaps it's due to my larger hands and fingers but I feel that is still needs some work.

The phone is overkill you say? I don't believe any phone can be overkill (unless someone creates a phone that can finally cook breakfast for you) because it is merely future proofing. Quad band GSM and tri-band 3G as well as WiFi b/g? That makes it a world phone. As for storage, yes, by the time this phone is released, I'm sure there will be a 32GB iPhone in the wild. But how long before the next storage upgrade? Pretty soon, microSD cards will reach 32GB capacity, effectively doubling the amount of space for the N97.

Lastly, price. How many of you bought the original iPhone? Remember how much that cost WITH contract? This phone is projected to cost $700, UNLOCKED. T-Mobile fans benefit from this fact despite lack of the AWS 3G band. Besides, there are other phones that top the price of the iPhone and the N97. Phones from HTC, Sony Ericsson and Nokia itself.

You have to understand that what works for one person, doesn't mean that the entire world will feel the same If you don't use MMS, fine. But someone else does. I'm sure some of your friends have tried to send you an MMS only to discover that you never received it due to Apples negligence . And it is a standard across the market. While I didn't perform a through check due to lack of time, most of the top apps in the iTunes store were games. Couple this with the fact that Apple maintains a Draconian fist over the app store, its only natural that would be developers will have second thoughts about iPhone development. I'm not defending S60 or Nokia in anyway. I'm only trying to point out that we should all reserve our judgement until we actually try the phone out.

macFanDave
Dec 3, 2008, 06:13 AM
that makes me violate the 10th commandment is the nice camera.

Even if they just improved the optics and gave it a flash, the 2MP size could be sufficient. I can't tell you how often the iPhone camera's inferiority has let me down.

That's the main reason I didn't upgrade to the 3G. Hopefully, Nokia might motivate to give some love to the camera in the next version of the iPhone.

Sesshi
Dec 3, 2008, 06:29 AM
What really, really, PO's me off about the phone is that it doesn't have a number row on the keyboard. The same with the Experia.

PCNokiaFanBoy
Dec 3, 2008, 07:33 AM
Overkill phone is overkill...

the :apple: fanboism is reaching new levels of stupidity here!

I sold my iphone to get the N95 8GB because of the lack of decent camera and video record functionality.

Check out the movie I made with the stock N95 video recorder (and powerdirector)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kWCf6ajQQQs

Now to the guy who said 'phone overkill is overkill' on seeing N97 video specs, you just dont have a clue and your comment looks almost as stupid as the infamous 'everything has all ready been invented' comment from the early part of last century.

Look if you are that blinded by steve jobs b*lls that you got tattooed to the inside of your eyelids then you really are beyond help. Anyone who has ever had the slightest interest in computers must laugh at such a comment :D

Sesshi
Dec 3, 2008, 07:42 AM
True that. I have been really surprised at the relative acceptability (Well, for a phone) of what I've shot on the N95 and dumped into FCS / Vegas.

nick9191
Dec 3, 2008, 07:44 AM
Damn that thing is ugly. Nice spec though.

Apple needs to offer a high end phone with specs like that.

OllyW
Dec 3, 2008, 07:55 AM
the :apple: fanboism is reaching new levels of stupidity here!

I sold my iphone to get the N95 8GB because of the lack of decent camera and video record functionality.

The camera is the main thing I miss from my old N95. :(

mrrory
Dec 3, 2008, 07:55 AM
I'd like the 5mp camera.. Having said that, right now I'd settle for a camera that was ready to work within 5 seconds of pressing the button. iPhone camera is not exactly responsive :(

Nuvi
Dec 3, 2008, 08:47 AM
Real keyboard... I'm getting so fed up with iPhone's "no landscape mode" email composing crap. Why on earth we can't have it? Anyway, I guess no real keyboard is new "one button mouse" type policy so there is no way something like that will be introduced...

macbook129
Dec 3, 2008, 08:47 AM
Ok, its pretty obvious already that the new nokia wont be as 'fun' and simple to use as an iPhone, but thats because Apple focus so much on design and interactivery that every product they release is a dream to use.

but if the next iPhone isn't a serious improvement in terms of specs, i would certainly consider getting this. iPhone 3G has what upgrades exactly from the 2.5g?.... 3g? 'a flush headphone jack', okay? what else, hardly nothing worth boasting about.

iPhone3 needs decent camera features (with zoom/flash), more GB, and a video recording fuction, atleast, in the nx update otherwise i wont be going near it.

Plus i prefer having the actual qwerty keyboard since its quite difficult to type a msg whilst walking thru busy streets with the iPhone.

I was actually looking at the G1, but its quite ugly. But this phone is still a prototype so im sure it will improve, and we will see what its really like nx summer.

PCNokiaFanBoy
Dec 3, 2008, 08:57 AM
iPhone3 needs decent camera features (with zoom/flash), more GB, and a video recording fuction, atleast, in the nx update otherwise i wont be going near it.

This is what I thought the 3G would have, I waited and waited and waited and then jobs really dissapointed me :mad:

It seems a real shame that jobs cut capability improvements in an effort to get the price below $200, which itself doesnt make sense to me, surely he needs to hit the higher end market more than the 15 year old kids, they ALREADY want one!

plumbingandtech
Dec 3, 2008, 10:24 AM
This is what I thought the 3G would have, I waited and waited and waited and then jobs really dissapointed me :mad:

It seems a real shame that jobs cut capability improvements in an effort to get the price below $200, which itself doesnt make sense to me, surely he needs to hit the higher end market more than the 15 year old kids, they ALREADY want one!

They are projected to have sold 30-40 million iphones by the end of 2009 (depended on the econ.)


What part of the $199 price was the best thing to happen to the iphone do you not understand?

And do you work for company or do you own your own business.

This "it's a shame they lowered the price" type comment could only come from someone who gets a paycheck from his boss every other Friday IMO.

Certainly not a business owner.

:rolleyes:

ucfgrad93
Dec 3, 2008, 11:07 AM
This looks nice, but I'm waiting to see the e63 in person.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/12/nokias-e63-breaks-free-for-mass-market-consumption/

palmerc2
Dec 3, 2008, 01:04 PM
looks too complicated,

but the 5 megapixel camera seems tiiiiight

Sesshi
Dec 3, 2008, 02:10 PM
They are projected to have sold 30-40 million iphones by the end of 2009 (depended on the econ.)


What part of the $199 price was the best thing to happen to the iphone do you not understand?

And do you work for company or do you own your own business.

This "it's a shame they lowered the price" type comment could only come from someone who gets a paycheck from his boss every other Friday IMO.

Certainly not a business owner.

:rolleyes:

Well - if you were a technologically informed business owner you would have a number of concerns about deploying iPhones. I give the people I employ a simple choice: A Blackberry for push emails, or iPhone on which emails can be forwarded to whatever POP/IMAP/MobileMe account they have - but with other restrictions in place as well.

newyorkguy
Dec 3, 2008, 03:18 PM
This looks nice, but I'm waiting to see the e63 in person.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/12/nokias-e63-breaks-free-for-mass-market-consumption/
yea.LOOKs nice. But to be honest: I could throw my E61 against the wall everyday. Nokia left it in early beta state. For me: Never Nokia again.

MacTraveller
Dec 3, 2008, 05:30 PM
[following on from this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=609557) yesterday]

It looks like my PSP. With a tiny keyboard.

chainprayer
Dec 3, 2008, 05:31 PM
*shakes fist at nokia

brjuber
Dec 3, 2008, 06:06 PM
I will try to be objective with my comments but I was not impressed.

1) the form of the phone seems nice, good materials, some may prefer a qwerty keyboard so that is a plus (although it appears to be a little chunky in size).

2) I was not impressed with any of the features shown, there is simply nothing new or innovative, and the performance appeared slow.

3) The interface seemed cluttered, despite its ability to be customized. (Clean people, its all about clean design).

To sum it up, this phone has looks but it is a shallow hole inside. My suggestion stop throwing in features as a way to compete instead wow me (and not like microsoft vista)

ogbuke
Dec 3, 2008, 06:10 PM
Really? I can sync my N95 with my MacBook over bluetooth and cable. iPhoto, iTunes, iCal all just work :apple:

edit. oh yeah and tethering of course. Something iPhone can't do (unless you jailbreak) :D kind of ironic

http://europe.nokia.com/A4423133

To me all this "iPhone killer" talk is a bunch of nonsense because as far as I'm concerned iPhone was dead already when it was first released. "Just works" philosophy is great, it's just that iPhone does not provide.

Another Nokia fanboy who's jealous their company isn't getting as much attention as the iphone, when last you hear "Nokia killer." :D

ogbuke
Dec 3, 2008, 06:13 PM
I got question.....
Why Apple not giving us:
1. Navigation app like TomTom
2. MMS
3. Copy/Paste
4. Video recording
5. Built-in digital TV receiver
... and other useful features which can be found in all smart phones apart from iPhone?
Or I will change question....
Why Apple got that strange strategy of not telling anyone why they did that this way but not that way? Why they never answer any questions from customers. Why Why Why?
The reason I am asking is that I think iPhone is just prototype, which still can make money for Apple. I can live with this prototype but its really ANNOYING why Apple don't make any comments about most requested features. Is it really hard for Apple to say "TomTom will be avaialble before end of the year" or" we having problem to make proper appfor video recording .It will take time". At least I know what I can expect then. For now I keep my iPhone in my hand and I wonder if I will ever see any of these features... which is again very ANNOYING.
:mad::mad::mad:

So it's Apple's fault TomTom or whomever haven't developed their app for the iphone. :rolleyes:

jimmer-uk
Dec 3, 2008, 07:38 PM
So it's Apple's fault TomTom or whomever haven't developed their app for the iphone. :rolleyes:

Yes. Do some research. Grow up a little too and broaden your horizons :rolleyes:

The N97 looks interesting, think I'll be giving the iphone till the next major update for them to pull their finger out then I'm off!!

ogbuke
Dec 4, 2008, 06:40 AM
Yes. Do some research. Grow up a little too and broaden your horizons :rolleyes:

The N97 looks interesting, think I'll be giving the iphone till the next major update for them to pull their finger out then I'm off!!

Yes I did do some research, and still I don't see how it's Apple's fault they haven't developed the app. :rolleyes:

As for wherever your off to, do you.

allmIne
Dec 4, 2008, 07:11 AM
Pah! It'll have an annoyingly short battery life, it'll take ages to retrieve your SMS's, and you'll have to wait 6 months for Nokia to release an OS update for it to be stable.

Smartphones are a rubbish. I'm gonna chuck my N95 soon and replace it with a £20 Samsung. Might look cheap but unlike the N95, it does the basics properly.

Short battery life? 36 hours of continuous audio playback on a phone doesn't imply short batter life to me, to be honest.

That thing is hotness; it deserves to be a viable iPhone competitor.

THE JUICEMAN
Dec 4, 2008, 11:12 AM
This looks like the first phone that can compete with the iPhone in my opinion. It's and interesting device and I don't see all the slowness in the OS that everybody else is seeing. I love my iPhone but I may actually consider this one.


They start showing the OS around 2:04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN_LSKwnX10

OS X Dude
Dec 4, 2008, 11:59 AM
It does more than compete with the iPhone, on all levels barring ease of use it totally pi*ses on it.

It's a shame Apple is making crap products recently. I hope they get back on top, where they deserve to be. After the iPhone 3G, MobileMe and new MacBooks fiascos, I and a lot of other people have lost faith.

Come on :apple: :)

Prof.
Dec 4, 2008, 12:34 PM
I have to say, this has strong potential to be a true iPhone killer. With so much more battery life, more capacity; who cares if it's a tad bit thicker? I don't. Depending what the reviews say, I would definitely choose this phone over the iPhone. And IMO, it looks better than the iPhone 3G.

milatchi
Dec 4, 2008, 01:27 PM
Wow, nice specs.

ogbuke
Dec 4, 2008, 05:42 PM
It does more than compete with the iPhone, on all levels barring ease of use it totally pi*ses on it.

It's a shame Apple is making crap products recently. I hope they get back on top, where they deserve to be. After the iPhone 3G, MobileMe and new MacBooks fiascos, I and a lot of other people have lost faith.

Come on :apple: :)

Crap products, LOL, which is why they have the highest consumer satisfaction rates, I guess that means nothing but a bunch of whiners complaining on the internet means much, unbelievable.

ogbuke
Dec 4, 2008, 05:44 PM
First Look:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/04/nokia-n97-hands-on-part-ii-the-reckoning/

Ol3s
Dec 6, 2008, 07:51 AM
If I didn't already have the iphone I would seriously consider this phone. This has everything the iphone is missing. I remember how much I loved the symbian operating system on my N70, it was so straight forward. Anyway this phone probably has engage, to counter the appstore, 32gb compared to 16, same screen, real keyboard and a better camera:eek::eek::eek:

Abstract
Dec 7, 2008, 07:12 PM
This looks nice, but I'm waiting to see the e63 in person.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/12/nokias-e63-breaks-free-for-mass-market-consumption/

I've been playing with it. Not bad.


I just bought the new Nokia XpressMusic 5800. It's basically an iPhone, except the touchscreen is sliiiightly worse than an iPod's, but the screen quality is excellent overall, and everything else about it is better than an iPod, so I'm not exactly crying. It has an 8 GB memory built-in, and a memory card slot to take that further. It also has everything else I want, such as a remote to attach to my earphones. It also cost me $300 less than an iPhone would have outright (in Australia.......would have been different with 3 Mobile in HK).

Not sure what this Nokia is called in North America.

ravenvii
Dec 8, 2008, 01:54 AM
Lightning fast? What are you, a turtle? I've had every high end Nokia phone for the last 7 years up to the N96, of which I had 3 and had to return them all for defects. S60 is S L O W. FP2 is better, but still slow. Now remember, i am comparing this to the iPhone. In no way can S60 be considered lightning fast.

Unless you're a turtle....

:-))

I like turtles.






Yeah, the phone looks nice, but I'll keep my iPhone, thanks. But I do agree that those specs are nice. I wish the iPhone has a better camera - the one it has is rubbish. Video recording is nice too!

QueenZ
Dec 9, 2008, 01:06 AM
That looks like iPhone killer but i doubt that actually.. It does look really great but iPhone is still better imho.. ;)