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View Full Version : Undead deer gains revenge on hunter


edesignuk
Dec 3, 2008, 03:40 AM
A hunter who shot a large deer in America found himself on the receiving end of an unexpected backlash.

Randy Goodman, 49, said that he thought two well-placed shots with his .270-caliber rifle had killed the buck, which he shot while hunting in Missouri.

Goodman said the deer looked dead to him - but seconds later the 240lb animal came impressively back to life.

It promptly got to its feet, turned its attention to Goodman, knocked him over and attacked him with its antlers. Goodman described the attack as '15 seconds of hell,' which perhaps suggests a slight lack of empathy with the deer's feelings on the matter.

Sadly for the deer, however, its pretending-to-be-dead-then-goring-the-dude gambit didn't pay off Ė Goodman shot it two more times, after which it really was dead.

But it left its mark on the hunter Ė after killing the deer, Goodman noticed that he was covered in blood, and had to drive himself to hospital to have seven staples stuck into his head.Metro (http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?Undead_deer_gains_revenge_on_hunter&in_article_id=428205&in_page_id=2).

Shame he was eventually able to kill it, but rather rocking that the deer was able to inflict a good amount of damage first* :D

*yes, unless you need to kill to eat, I don't like hunters.

iBlue
Dec 3, 2008, 03:59 AM
Goes to show that without a gun most hunters (or idiot thugs, for that matter) wouldn't have a shot in hell, as it were.

ahem (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YnyRUzgqj7k) ;) (I love this video so much)

Henri Gaudier
Dec 3, 2008, 04:09 AM
On the weekends, my house, which is out in the country, is surrounded by hunters and I hate them with a passion. Sadly, I'm in a minority. I've been thinking about an anti hunt T-shirt based on the Sex Pistols gay cowboy shirt where 2 cowboys are stood opposite each other with their kocks out. Hopefully that will offend their hunting and religious cores all in one go! My vampire Sarkozy one only worked on old catholic grannies for some reason!???!!? Unfortunately I haven't found a suitable image of hunters to manipulate for my nasty little plan. If anyone knows of a suitable image please feel free to attach.:D

As to the OP - if only the deer had caused some real damage I'd be feeling a bit chirpier.:mad:

QuantumLo0p
Dec 3, 2008, 12:33 PM
...is surrounded by hunters and I hate them with a passion. Sadly, I'm in a minority. I've been thinking about an anti hunt T-shirt...As to the OP - if only the deer had caused some real damage I'd be feeling a bit chirpier.:mad:

Too bad you are not more open minded about life in general. The same rights given to the hunter are the same rights that protect you from being forced to eat wild game. I get the distinct impression you are a younger member of society as your understanding of reciprocal rights and freedom seems to elude you.

I suppose if you would have it be your way then you would want the government to decide what we eat. No thanks.

(feel free to interchange "eat" with "do", "say" and "feel")

:D

remmy
Dec 3, 2008, 12:44 PM
Too bad you are not more open minded about life in general. The same rights given to the hunter are the same rights that protect you from being forced to eat wild game. I get the distinct impression you are a younger member of society as your understanding of reciprocal rights and freedom seems to elude you.

I suppose if you would have it be your way then you would want the government to decide what we eat. No thanks.

(feel free to interchange "eat" with "do", "say" and "feel")

:D

What are you going on about???

Melrose
Dec 3, 2008, 01:13 PM
Goes to show that without a gun most hunters (or idiot thugs, for that matter) wouldn't have a shot in hell, as it were.

I think that the first half of deer season they should mandate hunters go out in the woods - weaponless - and kick the biggest buck they can find in the ass. If they can outrun the buck or escape with minor cuts & bruises they can go out and spend the second half of the season trying to shoot one.

I've seen so many people (and esp. in the last two years) who go out hunting and don't have a clue about the regulations or how to handle a gun. For whatever reason they figure the law doesn't apply in their case and let go a 12g a few hundred feet from housing..

leekohler
Dec 3, 2008, 01:47 PM
Give the animal rights thing a rest. This is how I ate when I was a kid. My dad shot deer and we ate them. We also butchered chickens with an ax in the back yard. And once a year, we'd go to the dairy farm down the street and butcher a cow. You people need to be a little less judgmental.


I've seen so many people (and esp. in the last two years) who go out hunting and don't have a clue about the regulations or how to handle a gun. For whatever reason they figure the law doesn't apply in their case and let go a 12g a few hundred feet from housing..

Then report them. I believe there are licensing laws in every state. I know my Dad has reported people before.

rdowns
Dec 3, 2008, 01:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRfOPquP_1Y

NSFW- language

robanga
Dec 3, 2008, 01:56 PM
We still win the vast majority of the confrontations :)

mahashel
Dec 3, 2008, 02:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRfOPquP_1Y

NSFW- language

That. Is. Awesome.

themoonisdown09
Dec 3, 2008, 02:24 PM
That sucks for the hunter. I don't hunt myself, but I have friends that do. It doesn't bother me at all. The only reason why I don't do it is because I think sitting in a tree stand all day doesn't sound fun.

My father-in-law owns and runs a deer processing shop. They are crazy busy, especially on Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years Day. They make deer sausage, deer summer sausage, deer fillets, ground deer, etc. I'm not too crazy about ground deer meat, but the deer fillets and summer sausage are AMAZING!

Sesshi
Dec 3, 2008, 02:28 PM
Goes to show that without a gun most hunters (or idiot thugs, for that matter) wouldn't have a shot in hell, as it were.

One could argue that is the sole point of going out with a gun :p

mkrishnan
Dec 3, 2008, 02:33 PM
On the weekends, my house, which is out in the country, is surrounded by hunters and I hate them with a passion.

I wouldn't want hunting going on anywhere near my house either, but... in most of the US, deer are not endangered, as far as I know. The natural population control mechanism for deer is being hunted by carnivorous (but not necessarily human) animals. We killed their non-human natural predators two hundred years ago. What alternative to hunting do you propose?

leekohler
Dec 3, 2008, 02:33 PM
That sucks for the hunter. I don't hunt myself, but I have friends that do. It doesn't bother me at all. The only reason why I don't do it is because I think sitting in a tree stand all day doesn't sound fun.

My father-in-law owns and runs a deer processing shop. They are crazy busy, especially on Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years Day. They make deer sausage, deer summer sausage, deer fillets, ground deer, etc. I'm not too crazy about ground deer meat, but the deer fillets and summer sausage are AMAZING!

Yeah, the fillets and sausages are awesome. We do get venison once in a while in restaurants here. I always have to get it.

bigjnyc
Dec 3, 2008, 02:41 PM
HA HA thats awesome, I dont feel sorry for the hunter at all. You cant expect to shoot someone or something and have them take it laying down.

QuantumLo0p
Dec 3, 2008, 02:43 PM
What are you going on about???

Fascism.
:D

...The natural population control mechanism for deer is being hunted by carnivorous (but not necessarily human) animals. We killed their non-human natural predators two hundred years ago. What alternative to hunting do you propose?

Deer populations in many areas of the US are out of control and states' DNR agencies are scrambling to get a hold of population densities or the herd will pay a dire price at the hands of disease.

What, exactly, are all the the predators we killed off 200 years ago?
:D
I suppose the Chupacabra could have been a mighty foe back in the day.
:D
PETA=PeopleEatingTastyAnimals
:D

mkrishnan
Dec 3, 2008, 03:09 PM
What, exactly, are all the the predators we killed off 200 years ago?

In the part of the US where I grew up, wolves, primarily.

And no, not werewolves. Just normal wolves. :p It's not a PETA thing... it just makes sense. Deer populations aren't rampant for no reason. Some force has traditionally kept them in check. Deer have lots of natural predators, depending on the environment, besides wolves.

gilkisson
Dec 3, 2008, 03:18 PM
Whitetail deer out here have pretty much assumed the status of "pest". They are everywhere. At least twice a week, I have to do the "AAA! Holy Crap! Frikkin Deer!!!" swerve in the middle of the road...

Henri Gaudier
Dec 3, 2008, 03:59 PM
Too bad you are not more open minded about life in general. The same rights given to the hunter are the same rights that protect you from being forced to eat wild game. I get the distinct impression you are a younger member of society as your understanding of reciprocal rights and freedom seems to elude you.

I suppose if you would have it be your way then you would want the government to decide what we eat. No thanks.

(feel free to interchange "eat" with "do", "say" and "feel")

:D

WTF? To attempt, a little at least to answer the part I can fathom ... there is no reciprocal right in reverse. I cannot magically shoot a deer or a wild boar or a buzzard and say that that one is somehow saved, bullet proof .. but others can come and kill. The way I see it is that people come from near and far to where I live and then destroy and kill all the wonderful things there which makes it a less rich, diverse and wonderful place to live. And what I want I cannot make manifest as it cannot be made true. Moreover, hunters have shot two of my cats, one of which died. Last weekend we had hounds trying to get through the cat flap in my front door. They were howling, calling others to my house, which is isolated btw, and when you see the hunters themselves they are invariably monosyllabic mannerless c*nts, often drunk who are happy not to give a ***** because it's someone else's grievance and they're no where near home.

leekohler
Dec 3, 2008, 04:12 PM
WTF? To attempt, a little at least to answer the part I can fathom ... there is no reciprocal right in reverse. I cannot magically shoot a deer or a wild boar or a buzzard and say that that one is somehow saved, bullet proof .. but others can come and kill. The way I see it is that people come from near and far to where I live and then destroy and kill all the wonderful things there which makes it a less rich, diverse and wonderful place to live. And what I want I cannot make manifest as it cannot be made true. Moreover, hunters have shot two of my cats, one of which died. Last weekend we had hounds trying to get through the cat flap in my front door. They were howling, calling others to my house, which is isolated btw, and when you see the hunters themselves they are invariably monosyllabic mannerless c*nts, often drunk who are happy not to give a ***** because it's someone else's grievance and they're no where near home.

Then call the police, don't lump all hunters into the same category because of some. Obviously some laws have been broken.

Henri Gaudier
Dec 3, 2008, 04:34 PM
"I wouldn't want hunting going on anywhere near my house either, but... in most of the US, deer are not endangered, as far as I know. The natural population control mechanism for deer is being hunted by carnivorous (but not necessarily human) animals. We killed their non-human natural predators two hundred years ago. What alternative to hunting do you propose?"

I'm all for the reintroduction of bears and wolves and in some parts of Europe it's actually happening. Clearly not enough for someone of my politics and world view and sadly, with ever increasing populations this movement will face greater and greater opposition.

juanster
Dec 3, 2008, 04:38 PM
WTF? To attempt, a little at least to answer the part I can fathom ... there is no reciprocal right in reverse. I cannot magically shoot a deer or a wild boar or a buzzard and say that that one is somehow saved, bullet proof .. but others can come and kill. The way I see it is that people come from near and far to where I live and then destroy and kill all the wonderful things there which makes it a less rich, diverse and wonderful place to live. And what I want I cannot make manifest as it cannot be made true. Moreover, hunters have shot two of my cats, one of which died. Last weekend we had hounds trying to get through the cat flap in my front door. They were howling, calling others to my house, which is isolated btw, and when you see the hunters themselves they are invariably monosyllabic mannerless c*nts, often drunk who are happy not to give a ***** because it's someone else's grievance and they're no where near home.


yeah seems pretty frustrating, but you can't blame every single hunter for that, just load, aim and shoot adequately, hounds included..

iJohnHenry
Dec 3, 2008, 04:48 PM
I don't want to fight for/against hunting, but I do believe that this idiot deserves what he got.

His skill with a rifle indicates to me that he should be using rifled slugs, in a 12- guage, not a high-velocity light load, like a .270.

Henri Gaudier
Dec 3, 2008, 04:57 PM
yeah seems pretty frustrating, but you can't blame every single hunter for that, just load, aim and shoot adequately, hounds included..

Hahhaa .. actually I have thought of getting a shot gun ... not for what you suggest which is a disaster waiting to happen ..(I once gave away a beautiful Bowie knife because I'd had a nightmare that I'd killed someone with it and it really spooked me ... it felt like precognition or something and so I had to get rid of it so it could never happen) but for all the speed cameras that have hit Bretagne in the last year. Shot guns are just too bloody expensive though as much as I like the idea and of course I'd be mixing with the wrong crowd when I went to buy ammo. See .. I've got the lingo .....:D

MattWrenn
Dec 3, 2008, 05:29 PM
I think that the first half of deer season they should mandate hunters go out in the woods - weaponless - and kick the biggest buck they can find in the ass. If they can outrun the buck or escape with minor cuts & bruises they can go out and spend the second half of the season trying to shoot one.

What a hilarious idea!!! Good one!!!!

Thanks for making me Laugh :D

Matt

Keebler
Dec 3, 2008, 06:02 PM
WTF? To attempt, a little at least to answer the part I can fathom ... there is no reciprocal right in reverse. I cannot magically shoot a deer or a wild boar or a buzzard and say that that one is somehow saved, bullet proof .. but others can come and kill. The way I see it is that people come from near and far to where I live and then destroy and kill all the wonderful things there which makes it a less rich, diverse and wonderful place to live. And what I want I cannot make manifest as it cannot be made true. Moreover, hunters have shot two of my cats, one of which died. Last weekend we had hounds trying to get through the cat flap in my front door. They were howling, calling others to my house, which is isolated btw, and when you see the hunters themselves they are invariably monosyllabic mannerless c*nts, often drunk who are happy not to give a ***** because it's someone else's grievance and they're no where near home.

henri, there are 2 types of people in this world, complainers and doers. obviously you are the former. i feel for you wrt your cat and the hounds coming in, but call the authorities then.

I'm ashamed of those hunters b/c I hunt and we're not all like that. in fact, i would be kicking their a$$ if i saw them doing that.

Melrose
Dec 3, 2008, 06:34 PM
Then report them. I believe there are licensing laws in every state. I know my Dad has reported people before.

I don't hunt, but we get more people than you'd realize doing this reported through the radio station where I work. It seems a lot of hunters are just waaay to eager to grab the gun and blast without appreciating the responsibility.

And the animals rights thing - I've got my opinions on that but my last post wasn't intended to be taken either way, really.

Keebler
Dec 3, 2008, 06:39 PM
This is not directed at the OP necessarily, but to the rest voicing their opinion and laughter at the attacked hunter.

I feel I have to chime in here b/c lately, iíve been talking with some anti-hunters and some are too emotionally charged to be rational and some are simply uneducated about hunting (not criticizing the latter...just a fact). I donít care if someone is gay, black, white, asian, vegan or whatever......but i donít hatefully go after those folks.

I'm a hunter and proud of it. Iím not here to turn your opinion to love hunting. Believe in what you want, but just know the facts before piping off. Iím here to explain some reasons why I hunt and to maybe provide some information if youíre lacking knowledge about hunting.

the one thing that kills me about anti-hunters is that the majority seem to be vegans (I could be wrong, but it seems every time there is a complaining anti-hunter, they don't eat meat). now i have nothing against vegans....to each their own. what bothers me is that these vegans are peace loving, don't-hurt-the-animals - which is fine too. i get that.

BUT then they preach how they should HURT hunters, sabotage their treestands or atvs, get in the way of a hunt (which is pretty much idiotic btw) and like the first few tasteless posts in this thread, LAUGH when a hunter....ie. another person.....is hurt.

to me, that is completely hypocritical of what they believe in. if you're a peace lover, then it should be 100% of the time no? iíve had an anti-hunter call me a Ďterroristí of the forest believe it or not...then this individual sent me a link for a video on how to disrupt a hunterís day (walk during their hunt, destroy their stand and/or atv). Who is the real terrorist?

of course, there is the other side of anti-hunters who are meat-eaters. itís hypocritical of them to be complaining when they go buy meat at the grocery store - do you think they ask the cows to lie down and die?! ďhey mr and mrs cow, we need an order of side ribs..do you think you could spare some...har har.???Ē One can argue that a cow slaughter is more humane, but not with rifle, muzzle or shotgun hunting. Animals can be taken very quickly and in some cases, just as fast if not faster than a cow.

Personally, Iím not a bow hunter and I donít like the idea of an animal running away wounded as the hunter waits for it to lay down and die while suffering. That bothers me and is a reason why iíll never bow hunt - despite the challenges in doing so.

Iím not saying anti-hunters should embrace hunting - maybe just donít be so emotionally against hunting then. Meat eating anti-hunters have no right whatsoever to be angry with hunters - so hypocritical itís embarrassing.

Someone has farmed that meat for you - hunters just get their own. And, my meat is better than what you get - itís free range, not pumped full of chemicals to look red in the stores and not fed & bred to fat. Plus, to boot, because these animals are free range and live in the wild, their meat is very lean to start with b/c they have to burn energy to survive. Iíve been lucky enough that I havenít had to buy a cent of red meat in 7 years. Iíve had roasts, burger, sausages, steaks and stew right in my freezer. (pat on the back)

i wonít say iíve saved money b/c there is the rest of the hunting costs involved, but saved time and put better food on our plates, definitely.

The subject of population control has come up - Native Indians farmed the land properly with their hunting. The white man came and screwed it all up - not on purpose, but with a massive population explosion. How did they manage to survive? By hunting and in a few cases (buffalo, turkeys for example), they pretty much eliminated the species sadly. Here in Canada for example, turkeys were native to Ontario, but they disappeared for the aforementioned reason. The OFAH (Ontario Federation of Anglers & Hunters) traded some wolves with Ohio (I think?) or another US state and they brought the turkey back to Ontario. Why? Because it was part of our heritage and yes, to hunt (and supposed they are fantastic to eat...I havenít had one yet).

Someone mentioned removing deerís natural predators, but iím not sure we did that. What we did do, is insert humans as a big time natural predator. Right or wrong, it happened. And now, we have to continue being a predator to help balance the populations b/c we screwed it up. I know some folks will say, ďhey...use deer birth controlĒ. Theyíve tried that and itís incredibly expensive. Unless you, the taxpayer, want to pay for it...itís not going to work. Plus, whether you like it or not, hunting does pump millions of dollars into local economies. Do have a report to back that up? heck no, but just look in your local areas during hunting season and/or check a Cabelaís, Big Bass Pro etc.... look at the product being moved. Maybe call your local natural resources office and ask for stats on license sales etc...

If populations are left unbalanced, the deer get sick - diseases run rampant and they donít have enough food to eat to the population actually suffers. If youíve ever heard of a deer cull in your area, that would be why. I donít know about you, but I think a shot deer is far better off than a starving animal.

Henri mentioned some idiot hunters and unfortunately, they do ruin our reputation. It disgusts me when i hear of hunters doing what he described. For the vast majority, weíre not like that. Iím a very law abiding individual....never been in trouble with the law, take care of my kids, donít drink excessively or Iím a good guy....plus, a mac user so i canít be THAT bad :)

Hunters put more money into conservation I bet than PETA or any other anti-hunting group. Sure, yes....a large part of that reason is to continue hunting. A big part of it is also because we LOVE the forests and outdoors. Make fun of us sure, but i bet we get out into the woods far more than the anti-hunters or people who curse us. Just asking a question, but when was the last time you went for a walk deep in the bush to a place where people probably havenít been in years? Chances are itís been a long, long time.

If I harvest an animal, thatís the icing on the cake. Enjoying and appreciating nature for what it is, the camaraderie of hunt camp and the knowledge that Iím taking care of myself while in the bush (ie. navigation, eating, how and where to walk, understanding the forest) are reasons why I hunt. lots of people like vacations to resorts and cruises, but I personally donít. Weíve become a lazy society where we work so hard that we long to sit, be fed and entertained. Again, to each their own, but Iím much prefer to entertain myself and live. Maybe if more people hunted, folks would have a stronger appreciation for nature and might take a better stance at protecting it instead of dwelling in the city and yelling at hunters (I realize not all anti-hunters live in the city, but you get my point :).


so edesignuk, i don't know if that qualifies as a 'need to kill to eat', but hate me or not, those are my reasons for doing so.

Now, onto the original story. It would be nice to have perhaps better or more concise reporting. I quickly googled and found 2 other articles which pretty much said the same thing. As a hunter, I wonder what he was doing, but it says he made 2 well placed shots. With a .270, well placed shots would put a deer down. Maybe because it was a larger deer as 240 is on the bigger side (at least for here in Ontario). Deer are incredibly tough so caution is always needed when approaching a downed animal. Theyíre far tougher than moose as an example. Out of respect for anti-hunters, i wonít tell some stories of how far deer have been chased, but itís truly incredible (and yes, sad the animals suffered that long :( not mockery there...the truth. I donít like to see animals suffer.

An ethical hunter will only take a kill shot so iíd like to give the benefit of the doubt to this guy until we hear more. Maybe someone from his area will chime in if theyíve seen it on TV? He might have approached the deer too quickly after shooting it. Who knows.

Unlike others, iím glad heís ok and I hope he learned a lesson.

Cheers,

Keebler

FrankieTDouglas
Dec 3, 2008, 07:23 PM
I'm not against hunting, but I am against the SPORT of hunting.

Melrose
Dec 3, 2008, 07:48 PM
I'm not against hunting, but I am against the SPORT of hunting.

Well said, well said.

JNB
Dec 3, 2008, 08:48 PM
long post

Well spoken.

I'm not against hunting, but I am against the SPORT of hunting.

Are you saying that you don't mind hunting, but disagree with someone enjoying themselves while doing it? I'm a wee confused at how you're distinguishing the act vs. the "sport" here.

angelneo
Dec 3, 2008, 08:54 PM
of course, there is the other side of anti-hunters who are meat-eaters. it’s hypocritical of them to be complaining when they go buy meat at the grocery store - do you think they ask the cows to lie down and die?! “hey mr and mrs cow, we need an order of side ribs..do you think you could spare some...har har.???” One can argue that a cow slaughter is more humane, but not with rifle, muzzle or shotgun hunting. Animals can be taken very quickly and in some cases, just as fast if not faster than a cow.

It's different when you are slaughtering a chicken to feed a family of four compare to taking a gun and shooting for sport. I do have a beef against people who cry about animal cruelty and is a meat eater themselves but this is between killing for sport and killing for food.

Keebler
Dec 3, 2008, 09:21 PM
It's different when you are slaughtering a chicken to feed a family of four compare to taking a gun and shooting for sport. I do have a beef against people who cry about animal cruelty and is a meat eater themselves but this is between killing for sport and killing for food.

perhaps you mean killing for existence vs killing for sport?

instead of letting the butchers 'kill', i choose to harvest for myself. will i die if i don't harvest deer and other game - probably not, but i bet my diet would suffer in the long run. I believe that. I can't scientifically prove it, but i believe it.

Well spoken.



Are you saying that you don't mind hunting, but disagree with someone enjoying themselves while doing it? I'm a wee confused at how you're distinguishing the act vs. the "sport" here.

thanks.

Melrose
Dec 3, 2008, 09:27 PM
Are you saying that you don't mind hunting, but disagree with someone enjoying themselves while doing it? I'm a wee confused at how you're distinguishing the act vs. the "sport" here.

I think what he's saying is he finds a difference between someone who hunts (and presumably enjoys it) and the person who hunts simply for the sake of killing something - simply for the sake of the thrill of it, with no respect for life.

And there is a difference - Most people who hunt don't need the meat, but like the venison and enjoy being outdoors or whatever. Then there's the hunter who doesn't eat what he shoots he kills simply for trophies and/or the thrill of the kill.

Don't misinterpret that post as one-sided; Whether you hunt or not is entirely up to you and for your own reasons - I'm only offering my take on what he meant.

Keebler
Dec 3, 2008, 10:23 PM
I think what he's saying is he finds a difference between someone who hunts (and presumably enjoys it) and the person who hunts simply for the sake of killing something - simply for the sake of the thrill of it, with no respect for life.

And there is a difference - Most people who hunt don't need the meat, but like the venison and enjoy being outdoors or whatever. Then there's the hunter who doesn't eat what he shoots he kills simply for trophies and/or the thrill of the kill.

Don't misinterpret that post as one-sided; Whether you hunt or not is entirely up to you and for your own reasons - I'm only offering my take on what he meant.

great clarification. I don't discriminate b/n a trophy or not b/c imho, any harvested animal means success. some guys do go for the trophy and i'm always reminding them of not going for the trophy.

teflon
Dec 4, 2008, 12:05 AM
If you kill the animal quickly, have respect for the animals, the forest and the surrounding area, and hunt for food, then I don't think there's a difference between a hunter and butcher. But some people hunt for the power trip. They enjoy seeing animals suffer, seeing animals running away in fear. They like to kill because it gives them power, they watch animals die in delight and satisfaction. It's sadistic, and disgusting. They can't kill people, can't have control in their life for whatever reason, and take it out on the animals.

edesignuk
Dec 4, 2008, 02:01 AM
woah, this thread got cranky over night :eek:

My position is this, if you're hunting an animal that is in no way endangered, and you want it for food/clothing then that's absolutely fine. That's nature.

If you're huting something, endangered or not, and all you want to do is hang its head on a wall, or sell its antlers/whatever, you disgust me and I hope the animal(s) gets the chance to ******* you up.

Keebler
Dec 4, 2008, 07:18 AM
woah, this thread got cranky over night :eek:

My position is this, if you're hunting an animal that is in no way endangered, and you want it for food/clothing then that's absolutely fine. That's nature.

If you're huting something, endangered or not, and all you want to do is hang its head on a wall, or sell its antlers/whatever, you disgust me and I hope the animal(s) gets the chance to ******* you up.

i'm with you on this one. cougar hunting is a bad, bad example. 'hunters' wait for a phone call from a guide who has found a cougar and chased it with hounds up a tree. that is definitely not hunting.

i don't know about the US or other countries, but here in Canada, it's illegal to sell any part of a harvested animal and the very reason is to not give folks a reason to kill for trophies via poaching.

If my post came across hard, it's only b/c i've been nattering with some anti-hunters last week and my back hairs were up to begin with. I don't mind if ppl don't like hunting, but as long as they have the facts first :)

cheers,
keebler

If you kill the animal quickly, have respect for the animals, the forest and the surrounding area, and hunt for food, then I don't think there's a difference between a hunter and butcher. But some people hunt for the power trip. They enjoy seeing animals suffer, seeing animals running away in fear. They like to kill because it gives them power, they watch animals die in delight and satisfaction. It's sadistic, and disgusting. They can't kill people, can't have control in their life for whatever reason, and take it out on the animals.

wow...this makes me sad if there are hunters out there like this - I've never seen one. Not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen a sadistic blood wanting hunter. Any hunter I've known to wound an animal and have to chase it has been devastated.

bummer.

Henri Gaudier
Dec 4, 2008, 08:59 AM
"henri, there are 2 types of people in this world, complainers and doers. obviously you are the former."

&

"...as long as they have the facts first."

Ahem ......

Keebler
Dec 4, 2008, 11:11 AM
"henri, there are 2 types of people in this world, complainers and doers. obviously you are the former."

&

"...as long as they have the facts first."

Ahem ......

je ne sais pa? my point is to do something about it if the hunters are not acting responsibly. just don't hate the lot of hunters b/c we're not all bad :)

QuantumLo0p
Dec 4, 2008, 12:34 PM
In the part of the US where I grew up, wolves, primarily. Deer have lots of natural predators, depending on the environment, besides wolves.

In North America there are primarily two predators of deer; puma and wolves. There simply are not predators everywhere, covering every square mile of land.

The fact is nature can get out of sync all by itself.

Keebler
Dec 4, 2008, 01:05 PM
In North America there are primarily two predators of deer; puma and wolves. There simply are not predators everywhere, covering every square mile of land.

The fact is nature can get out of sync all by itself.

don't forget bears. they are a big time predator of deer (and moose (usually calf) for that matter).

Henri Gaudier
Dec 4, 2008, 01:17 PM
je ne sais pa? my point is to do something about it if the hunters are not acting responsibly. just don't hate the lot of hunters b/c we're not all bad :)

The Prefecture is also the head of the local gendarme and my mayor and the majority of his equipe, who I've complained to on a regular basis are some of the very people I actually have a problem with! You have to get it into context ... what I loathe isn't apparently anything to be bothered about. And no ... you're not all bad .. people are far too complex to summarise so quickly. I dare say there are more than two types of people in this world as well! :p But you may be sadly misguided in what you do or simply lacking empathy. In a few hundred years .. hunting, meat eating, factory farming and so forth will be as abhorrent as child chimney sweeps and work houses.

Iscariot
Dec 4, 2008, 02:17 PM
I feel I have to chime in here b/c lately, iíve been talking with some anti-hunters and some are too emotionally charged to be rational and some are simply uneducated about hunting (not criticizing the latter...just a fact). I donít care if someone is gay, black, white, asian, vegan or whatever......but i donít hatefully go after those folks.

the one thing that kills me about anti-hunters is that the majority seem to be vegans (I could be wrong, but it seems every time there is a complaining anti-hunter, they don't eat meat). now i have nothing against vegans....to each their own. what bothers me is that these vegans are peace loving, don't-hurt-the-animals - which is fine too. i get that.

BUT then they preach how they should HURT hunters, sabotage their treestands or atvs, get in the way of a hunt (which is pretty much idiotic btw) and like the first few tasteless posts in this thread, LAUGH when a hunter....ie. another person.....is hurt.

For every "militant" or hypocritical vegan or animal rights activist that "hatefully" goes after hunters, there's a dozen militant or offensive meat eaters hatefully and gleefully going after vegetarians. Even the mention of animal rights or vegetarianism will have somebody chiming in about hypocrisy or militancy, with some trussed up examples and then a tirade about how these people ought to think or act. And who is this "they" that's supposedly preaching about how they should hurt hunters? Do you have a direct line from Vegan Central into your home (and if so, how do I subscribe)? Or are you just as guilty of stereotyping a majority based on the minority as these vegans you're making claims about?

Henri Gaudier
Dec 4, 2008, 02:42 PM
The word from this vegan hypocrite is, to paraphrase General Sheridan, the only good hunter is a dead hunter.;)

.Andy
Dec 4, 2008, 02:57 PM
I don’t know about you, but I think a shot deer is far better off than a starving animal.
Solution to world hunger right here. Shoot the hungry.

Lord Blackadder
Dec 4, 2008, 03:29 PM
We have a serious deer overpopulation problem here in Ohio - the biggest threat is deer-auto accidents, but the deer themselves become unhealthy and seek out food in dangerous places when population pressure gets too high.

Without the hunting, the ODNR Wildlife division would have to pay professional hunters to cull the population - that would cost millions. Instead, the state makes money selling hunting licenses and lots of people get to eat venison. Everybody wins.

I personally do not support trophy hunting, though it's still big business, especially in Africa.

Hunters and Environmentalists - two groups with some similar ideas who will never, ever, admit it.

RayStar
Dec 4, 2008, 03:41 PM
We have a serious deer overpopulation problem here in Ohio - the biggest threat is deer-auto accidents, but the deer themselves become unhealthy and seek out food in dangerous places when population pressure gets too high.

Without the hunting, the ODNR Wildlife division would have to pay professional hunters to cull the population - that would cost millions. Instead, the state makes money selling hunting licenses and lots of people get to eat venison. Everybody wins.

I personally do not support trophy hunting, though it's still big business, especially in Africa.

Hunters and Environmentalists - two groups with some similar ideas who will never, ever, admit it.We have an over population of deer in SE MI also. I think the population should be reduced.

apsterling
Dec 4, 2008, 04:31 PM
Too bad you are not more open minded about life in general. The same rights given to the hunter are the same rights that protect you from being forced to eat wild game. I get the distinct impression you are a younger member of society as your understanding of reciprocal rights and freedom seems to elude you.

I suppose if you would have it be your way then you would want the government to decide what we eat. No thanks.

(feel free to interchange "eat" with "do", "say" and "feel")

:D
He's in France, his rights are, I'd presume, slightly different.

Henri Gaudier
Dec 4, 2008, 04:44 PM
We have a serious deer overpopulation problem here in Ohio - the biggest threat is deer-auto accidents, but the deer themselves become unhealthy and seek out food in dangerous places when population pressure gets too high. Environmentalists - two groups with some similar ideas who will never, ever, admit it.

It's clear - reintroduce bears and wolves. Oh and humans to quit rutting would help the equation too.

Lord Blackadder
Dec 4, 2008, 04:54 PM
It's clear - reintroduce bears and wolves. Oh and humans to quit rutting would help the equation too.

Actually, if we got rid of people, the bears and wolves would make their way back to Ohio...

QuantumLo0p
Dec 4, 2008, 06:55 PM
He's in France, his rights are, I'd presume, slightly different.

Umm, yup! As in not as many rights although rights in the US are deteriorating.
:mad:

don't forget bears. they are a big time predator of deer (and moose (usually calf) for that matter).

Bear?! I don't think they can catch a deer.

william sire
Dec 4, 2008, 08:04 PM
So many people on the deers side.

I would have cut off his hind quarters, cooked them in a camp fire and ate them in front of him before I finished him off.

Keebler
Dec 4, 2008, 09:39 PM
For every "militant" or hypocritical vegan or animal rights activist that "hatefully" goes after hunters, there's a dozen militant or offensive meat eaters hatefully and gleefully going after vegetarians. Even the mention of animal rights or vegetarianism will have somebody chiming in about hypocrisy or militancy, with some trussed up examples and then a tirade about how these people ought to think or act. And who is this "they" that's supposedly preaching about how they should hurt hunters? Do you have a direct line from Vegan Central into your home (and if so, how do I subscribe)? Or are you just as guilty of stereotyping a majority based on the minority as these vegans you're making claims about?

did you not read the word 'SEEM' in that sentence or were you excited to reply you didn't read properly? if you bothered to read my post, i was careful not to stereotype throughout. i didn't lump all vegans together nor would I. that would be hypocritical now wouldn't it?

just for the record, i have friends who are vegans and we get along just nicely :)


run a search on youtube to find the 'they'. plenty of videos there.

dukebound85
Dec 4, 2008, 09:41 PM
Bear?! I don't think they can catch a deer.

bears are preeeeety fast animals. they can up up to 40mph

So many people on the deers side.

I would have cut off his hind quarters, cooked them in a camp fire and ate them in front of him before I finished him off.

while i loooove eating meat, i dont tolerate unnecessary pain for the animal

Keebler
Dec 4, 2008, 09:50 PM
Bear?! I don't think they can catch a deer.

much to your surprise, they can and do.

youtube videos of bear and moose:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bear+moose+calf&search_type=&aq=2&oq=%22bear+moose

if you search for bear and deer, there is one video of a brown bear attacking a fawn which was having a hard time in the snow, but ignoring that fact, you can see how fast bears run.

trust me...they get their fair share of deer.

The Prefecture is also the head of the local gendarme and my mayor and the majority of his equipe, who I've complained to on a regular basis are some of the very people I actually have a problem with! You have to get it into context ... what I loathe isn't apparently anything to be bothered about. And no ... you're not all bad .. people are far too complex to summarise so quickly. I dare say there are more than two types of people in this world as well! :p But you may be sadly misguided in what you do or simply lacking empathy. In a few hundred years .. hunting, meat eating, factory farming and so forth will be as abhorrent as child chimney sweeps and work houses.

misguided? no. not at all. you'll notice I haven't once told vegans that they're wrong in what they believe, but here you are suggesting I may have a problem :)

The word from this vegan hypocrite is, to paraphrase General Sheridan, the only good hunter is a dead hunter.;)

mon dieu...this doesn't even deserve a response :)

iBlue
Dec 5, 2008, 01:39 AM
So many people on the deers side.

I would have cut off his hind quarters, cooked them in a camp fire and ate them in front of him before I finished him off.

WTF?

mcarnes
Dec 5, 2008, 02:12 AM
WTF?

He's talking about the hunter, not the deer.

Not really the kind of butt I'd like to eat, but to each his own.

.Andy
Dec 5, 2008, 02:54 AM
run a search on youtube to find the 'they'. plenty of videos there.
Probably best if you don't get your worldview from youtube videos. Especially considering you have a gun.

Keebler
Dec 5, 2008, 08:17 AM
Probably best if you don't get your worldview from youtube videos. Especially considering you have a gun.

lol omg. how narrowminded is this comment Andy? honestly?

you're right - every morning, i wake up and surf youtube for 45 minutes while eating venison sausages and eggs, absorbing all the one sided-created-for-video views and then I use those as my bible for life :)

lol

greyking
Dec 5, 2008, 10:17 AM
1. Two "well placed" shots from a .270 will drop 2 deer in their tracks. Two bad shots would require 2 additional shots. As a hunter, I am disgusted at the lack of marksmanship skills demonstrated by this supposed hunter. Why make the animal suffer? Why spend your time tracking a blood trail? Go to a rifle range, and learn how to shoot - or switch to fishing.

2. In south Texas, 70% of a coyote's diet is deer. Deer have plenty of predators here, including me.

3. I eat everything I kill, except coyotes. Deer, wild boar, rabbits, quail, dove, ducks, turkey - all have been able to find a new home in my freezer.

4. In America, this hunter should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. This looks like a clear case of self-defense.

5. For all you vegans out there: List the top fattest animals on the planet - and they are all herbivores. Cows, whales, hippos, elephants...

Iscariot
Dec 5, 2008, 12:47 PM
did you not read the word 'SEEM' in that sentence or were you excited to reply you didn't read properly? if you bothered to read my post, i was careful not to stereotype throughout. i didn't lump all vegans together nor would I. that would be hypocritical now wouldn't it?

I'll be sure to plant the word "seem" in front of a stereotype the next time I make reference to one.
5. For all you vegans out there: List the top fattest animals on the planet - and they are all herbivores. Cows, whales, hippos, elephants...

Herbivores are also the biggest and the strongest.

Keebler
Dec 5, 2008, 01:48 PM
1. Two "well placed" shots from a .270 will drop 2 deer in their tracks. Two bad shots would require 2 additional shots. As a hunter, I am disgusted at the lack of marksmanship skills demonstrated by this supposed hunter. Why make the animal suffer? Why spend your time tracking a blood trail? Go to a rifle range, and learn how to shoot - or switch to fishing.

2. In south Texas, 70% of a coyote's diet is deer. Deer have plenty of predators here, including me.

3. I eat everything I kill, except coyotes. Deer, wild boar, rabbits, quail, dove, ducks, turkey - all have been able to find a new home in my freezer.

4. In America, this hunter should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. This looks like a clear case of self-defense.

5. For all you vegans out there: List the top fattest animals on the planet - and they are all herbivores. Cows, whales, hippos, elephants...

greyking! :) welcome, but guy, this hasn't really been a vegan v.s. hunter war type of thread. We've been discussing, albeit a bit heated, but you just fired a salvo.

I was trying to keep it somewhat clean, while making some points. hopefully this won't turn into a war b/c that wasn't the intention.
:eek:

synth3tik
Dec 5, 2008, 01:51 PM
That is fantastic. Hunters need to get close and dirty in the fight.

Iscariot
Dec 5, 2008, 02:47 PM
greyking! :) welcome, but guy, this hasn't really been a vegan v.s. hunter war type of thread. We've been discussing, albeit a bit heated, but you just fired a salvo.

I was trying to keep it somewhat clean, while making some points. hopefully this won't turn into a war b/c that wasn't the intention.
:eek:

You were the first person to mention vegan in this thread. Perhaps if you didn't want a "vegan vs. hunter war" type of thread you shouldn't have dragged vegans into it? If you have a problem with what an individual in this thread has said, address them, instead of making generalizations hidden behind the innocuous guise of opinion. Just as I'm sure you don't appreciate generalizations about "some" hunters, vegans don't appreciate generalization about "some" vegans.

Keebler
Dec 5, 2008, 06:36 PM
You were the first person to mention vegan in this thread. Perhaps if you didn't want a "vegan vs. hunter war" type of thread you shouldn't have dragged vegans into it? If you have a problem with what an individual in this thread has said, address them, instead of making generalizations hidden behind the innocuous guise of opinion. Just as I'm sure you don't appreciate generalizations about "some" hunters, vegans don't appreciate generalization about "some" vegans.

did someone p*ss in your cornflakes this morning or all week?
you need a hug don't you? :) i don't understand why you keep coming at me?

bingo...you win the prize for I did mention vegans and there's nothing wrong with it b/c i didn't take a shot at vegans in general, but a specific group or cross-section if you will... please don't tell me I need to quote my original post???? I clearly didn't say all vegans. and if a vegan read my post and took offense to it, they know what i'm talking about.

If I would have said, "all vegans are crazy and have no right to do what they do"...then fine, that would be DRAGGING them into it and wanting a 'war' now wouldn't it?

if the folks who 'generalized' about hunters had stated 'some hunters' instead of saying 'hunters', then I wouldn't need to remind them that not all hunters fit into their generalization just as i've been addressed that not all vegans fit into what i said (even though i didn't group them all).

anyhoo, i'm sure you'll agree this thread as been beat to death by now? I feel like i'm made the points I wanted to make and hopefully raised some awareness about hunting for those who may have been reacting with more emotion than facts or an understanding to begin with.

cheers,
keebler

and judging by the number of posts i've made in this thread, i think it's obvious i've addressed everyone i left needed to be?

Anyhoo, this has been all fun and games.

Iscariot
Dec 5, 2008, 07:48 PM
bingo...you win the prize for I did mention vegans and there's nothing wrong with it b/c i didn't take a shot at vegans in general, but a specific group or cross-section if you will... please don't tell me I need to quote my original post???? I clearly didn't say all vegans. and if a vegan read my post and took offense to it, they know what i'm talking about.

I would be more than happy to quote your original post if I thought it would have any impact, but you're clearly unwilling to recognize the correlation between your 15+ paragraph diatribe of generalizations, anecdotes and misinformation, and making a statement about being "simply uneducated [about hunting]". Your understanding of these "anti-hunters" is as poor as the understanding of these (pretend?) "anti-hunters" is of hunting, and your continued suggestion that I'm angered or emotionally affected by any of this is just as off-base. You might be surprised by the sheer number of vegetarians and vegans who come out on the side of hunters and are more angry at organizations like PETA than any hunter because of the continued co-option of their lifestyle to serve their interests.

Whether you used the word "all" or not, many of your statements contained generalizations and demonstrated a lack of understanding of why animal rights activists believe what they do, and lumping in a dietary choice with a support for animal rights. And you did indeed drag vegans into this conversation, as before you made mention of them there was no talk of vegans or for that matter of calling hunters "terrorists", there were just people taking ó inappropriate IMO ó schadenfreude at the misfortune of others. But you elevated it to include another group of people, a group of people who are sick of being involved and invoked in this issue by both sides.
I feel like i'm made the points I wanted to make and hopefully raised some awareness about hunting for those who may have been reacting with more emotion than facts or an understanding to begin with.

You might have been more successful if you demonstrated even the remotest interest in attempting to accept the kind of understanding you're seeking to promote.

FX120
Dec 5, 2008, 09:14 PM
For every "militant" or hypocritical vegan or animal rights activist that "hatefully" goes after hunters, there's a dozen militant or offensive meat eaters hatefully and gleefully going after vegetarians. Even the mention of animal rights or vegetarianism will have somebody chiming in about hypocrisy or militancy, with some trussed up examples and then a tirade about how these people ought to think or act. And who is this "they" that's supposedly preaching about how they should hurt hunters? Do you have a direct line from Vegan Central into your home (and if so, how do I subscribe)? Or are you just as guilty of stereotyping a majority based on the minority as these vegans you're making claims about?

When was the last time you saw a group of protesters outside of a vegan grocery store?

I have never heard of hunters physically harming vegans. I have heard of radical vegans physically harming hunters.

Usually the people I hear "going after" groups like PETA doesn't involve anything other than pointing out the fact that they're idiots, which isn't hard and doesn't require you to be a hunter, just a rational person wise enough to see beyond the hypocritical and offensive trash groups like PETA propogate.

I have no problem with someone being a vegitarian or choosing not to use animal based products, I don't know why any rational person would. I do have a problem with radical "animal rights" groups like PETA and ALF.

TSE
Dec 5, 2008, 09:51 PM
Give the animal rights thing a rest. This is how I ate when I was a kid. My dad shot deer and we ate them. We also butchered chickens with an ax in the back yard. And once a year, we'd go to the dairy farm down the street and butcher a cow. You people need to be a little less judgmental.



Then report them. I believe there are licensing laws in every state. I know my Dad has reported people before.

For once I agree with you Leekohler. I am a very passionate hunter and me and my father do everything by the law and it is a very bonding experience.

Keebler
Dec 5, 2008, 11:16 PM
I would be more than happy to quote your original post if I thought it would have any impact, but you're clearly unwilling to recognize the correlation between your 15+ paragraph diatribe of generalizations, anecdotes and misinformation, and making a statement about being "simply uneducated [about hunting]". Your understanding of these "anti-hunters" is as poor as the understanding of these (pretend?) "anti-hunters" is of hunting, and your continued suggestion that I'm angered or emotionally affected by any of this is just as off-base. You might be surprised by the sheer number of vegetarians and vegans who come out on the side of hunters and are more angry at organizations like PETA than any hunter because of the continued co-option of their lifestyle to serve their interests.

Whether you used the word "all" or not, many of your statements contained generalizations and demonstrated a lack of understanding of why animal rights activists believe what they do, and lumping in a dietary choice with a support for animal rights. And you did indeed drag vegans into this conversation, as before you made mention of them there was no talk of vegans or for that matter of calling hunters "terrorists", there were just people taking ó inappropriate IMO ó schadenfreude at the misfortune of others. But you elevated it to include another group of people, a group of people who are sick of being involved and invoked in this issue by both sides.


You might have been more successful if you demonstrated even the remotest interest in attempting to accept the kind of understanding you're seeking to promote.

this is like beating a dead horse.

Of course I don't see the correlation b/c it doesn't exist imo. When I said 'simply uneducated', it's exactly that - some folks just don't know anything about hunting. It wasn't a shot...just the truth. You can correlate that to many things ie. you may know how to change a tire, but your neighbour doesn't. You wouldn't believe the crazy questions I've had over the years about the hunting world.

In the end, I disagree with your thoughts on my 'diatribe' as you succinctly put it. Perhaps my 'generalizations' weren't specific enough, but I didn't think I need to detail further. I've already explained I wasn't referring to the entire vegan population, but how can I bring up those vegans who are emotionally-overboard against hunting without mentioning vegans? Whether or not a vegan feels dragged into the conversation is up to how they feel. I'm sure some folks were fine with it.

For the 'pretend'? anti-hunters, search on youtube for hunting videos and check out some of the conversations, as an example. Mind you, it's not the most mind blowing type of conversations. Then there are the anti-hunting videos, one of which I'd like to find again to quote the 'terrorists' of the forest comment. I certainly don't hope you intended that I made 'the terrorist' quote up? That's how i read it. I have no reason to make facts or generalizations up to suit my thoughts. These are experiences myself and other folks have had over the years. I know I don't have time just to make facts up so i can post on a message board.

If you and I were having a live conversation over a drink, you'd see I have more understanding about the vegan lifestyle than I supposedly don't have.

As for not showing an interest, maybe it comes down to perceptions with the written vs verbal word, but if I wasn't interested in understanding, why would I keep coming back to this thread? I honestly don't understand what I could have done differently. You got me there I'll admit (hands up in the air with a shrug). I did say 'to each their own' once or twice, which in my mind, is being open to someone else's beliefs.

it5five
Dec 6, 2008, 03:05 PM
This doesn't happen often enough, in my opinion. This deer is my hero.

Henri Gaudier
Dec 6, 2008, 03:23 PM
I am a very passionate hunter and me and my father do everything by the law and it is a very bonding experience.

You dirty ... dirty .... bast*rd

leekohler
Dec 6, 2008, 03:46 PM
For once I agree with you Leekohler. I am a very passionate hunter and me and my father do everything by the law and it is a very bonding experience.

You might be surprised to learn that you agree with me on more than just this, but we'll leave that for another thread. There is nothing wrong with hunting as long as one uses the animal for food. If people are just going out to shoot animals to get their kicks, I'm against that.

.Andy
Dec 6, 2008, 05:07 PM
For the 'pretend'? anti-hunters, search on youtube for hunting videos and check out some of the conversations, as an example. Mind you, it's not the most mind blowing type of conversations. Then there are the anti-hunting videos, one of which I'd like to find again to quote the 'terrorists' of the forest comment.
Probably best if you don't get your worldview from youtube videos. Especially considering you have a gun.

I have no problem with someone being a vegitarian or choosing not to use animal based products, I don't know why any rational person would.
Rationalise eating meat for us. (difficulty: I like the taste and I can aren't logical arguments).

Melrose
Dec 6, 2008, 05:12 PM
This thread went from a somewhat amusing news item to a line in the sand... (as happens so often)

Evidently, no one is going to change anyone's point of view - they have explained themselves and convinced themselves of their feelings already.

For my part, I was raised vegetarian (vegan for a little while) and for the past three years have eaten meat. I never felt high-and-mighty because of being so, never looked down on those who aren't - However I knew some from both camps who tended to view it like that. Mostly I can say whether you hunt or not, whether you are a vegetarian or not, whether you eat meat or not - it makes no difference and in my experience people don't really care. I wouldn't like to be judged based on what I choose to eat and don't judge others based on that either. I've never gone hunting, but if you eat what you kill I have no big beef with that since it's none of my business.

Agree to disagree and let it be.

Airforcekid
Dec 6, 2008, 05:51 PM
Always get a neck shot in or at least wait 2 mins!

iJohnHenry
Dec 6, 2008, 05:58 PM
For God's sake, study the anatomy of your quarry, at least.

Henri Gaudier
Dec 7, 2008, 06:50 AM
..... I have no big beef with that since it's none of my business. Agree to disagree and let it be.

Easy to say but you haven't thought it through. What about if you're living in the "war zone"? What if you want to be able to walk in the woods where you live, see a deer and watch for a moment in wonder but can't because they're rare and getting rarer? And anyway, it's too dangerous as many a day there's the retort of rifle fire in every direction. France has the longest season in Europe and has over 90 permissible species for hunting. The reality is anything goes but ... Anecdotally, we have the highest deaths from both hunters shooting themselves and passers by. I've Googled around but couldn't find numbers on this so if anyone can verify this I'd appreciate it. And if you complain ... there is some possibility of revenge attacks. In December 2007 there were two separate incidents in the local area where 2 horses were shot at point blank range and in both cases the owners had had run ins with trespassing hunters. Both were English families that had complained and so there may be a nationalist element to it too but nevertheless it's ********* vile.

You say it's none of your business but others have made it my business and although I've had to let it be on a daily basis because there is literally nothing I can do .. I'll always speak my mind. At the very least, there needs to be greater restrictions on hunting around populated areas and the season needs to be shortened.

dukebound85
Dec 7, 2008, 06:57 AM
This doesn't happen often enough, in my opinion. This deer is my hero.

what? why do you wish harm on hunters?

with that said, i hope some giant a$$ carrots beats up a vegan lol

dukebound85
Dec 7, 2008, 07:01 AM
Rationalise eating meat for us. (difficulty: I like the taste and I can aren't logical arguments).

well humans are omnivores after all. if humans werent designed to eat meat, we wouldn't be able to

with that said, a diet including meat is much easier to obtain all required proteins/nutrients than one vegan wise. not saying it cant be done but it is more difficult


but on the topic of hunting, i would much rather eat animals i kill than the sick ones raised on slaughter farms. obviously i have no problem with hunting as long as one hunts for food. i do have a problem with those that kill animals and not bring the carcass or just throw it into a bush

Melrose
Dec 7, 2008, 07:30 AM
Easy to say but you haven't thought it through. What about if you're living in the "war zone"? What if you want to be able to walk in the woods where you live, see a deer and watch for a moment in wonder but can't because they're rare and getting rarer? And anyway, it's too dangerous as many a day there's the retort of rifle fire in every direction. France has the longest season in Europe and has over 90 permissible species for hunting. The reality is anything goes but ... Anecdotally, we have the highest deaths from both hunters shooting themselves and passers by. I've Googled around but couldn't find numbers on this so if anyone can verify this I'd appreciate it. And if you complain ... there is some possibility of revenge attacks. In December 2007 there were two separate incidents in the local area where 2 horses were shot at point blank range and in both cases the owners had had run ins with trespassing hunters. Both were English families that had complained and so there may be a nationalist element to it too but nevertheless it's ********* vile.

My point is that whether you hunt or not, it's your choice not mine. Do what you will. I didn't say anything about hunter safety and training in that post, but yes - I agree that some are way too eager to get out there to the point they neglect proper safety. I handle the news reports at a radio station and we get faxes a-plenty about people shooting themselves or shooting others or other people's houses when they're out hunting.

Henri Gaudier
Dec 7, 2008, 07:54 AM
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" necessitates responsibility though and on that I think we agree.:)

QuantumLo0p
Dec 7, 2008, 08:00 PM
...while i loooove eating meat, i dont tolerate unnecessary pain for the animal

I'm fairly sure a head shot from a 5.56x45 NATO round will not induce much suffering.

Rapid fade to black.
;)

teflon
Dec 7, 2008, 09:08 PM

Someone has farmed that meat for you - hunters just get their own. And, my meat is better than what you get - itís free range, not pumped full of chemicals to look red in the stores and not fed & bred to fat. Plus, to boot, because these animals are free range and live in the wild, their meat is very lean to start with b/c they have to burn energy to survive. Iíve been lucky enough that I havenít had to buy a cent of red meat in 7 years. Iíve had roasts, burger, sausages, steaks and stew right in my freezer. (pat on the back)


Just out of curiosity Keebler, do you no longer eat beef/lamb? Do you eat other meat that is not harvested by you, like chicken or pork? Because a just deer diet seems quite dull, but if you still buy farm meat than you still get all the hormones and chemicals and all that stuff.
Also, do you skin, cut and whatever else is involved your own animals? What do you do with the fur, antlers, feet, tail etc?

FX120
Dec 7, 2008, 11:04 PM
RationaliseRationalise eating meat for us. (difficulty: I like the taste and I can aren't logical arguments).
Say what? Should I have to rationalize what is all ready the standard and has been throughout all of human history?

teflon
Dec 7, 2008, 11:47 PM
Rationalise eating meat for us. (difficulty: I like the taste and I can aren't logical arguments).

Any type of meat has all the proteins we needed, while no type of vegetable can provide us with all the proteins that we needed. Without the help of a nutritionist and/or a good knowledge of nutrition, a vegetarian or vegan diet is not healthy at all, and can be potentially dangerous. If you don't actually plan your diet, it's much easier to be missing something that you need on a vegetarian/vegan diet than a meat and vegetable diet. I have a cousin who is almost a vegetarian. He is allergic to all seafood, and he cannot stand any kind of fat for some reason. If he sees even a little bit of fat on meat, he won't eat it. Of course, that means he is limited to extremely small amount of meat. He eats tons of vegetables and fruits, but he is skins and bones. Now he's trying to add protein powder in his diet. Just the fact that he needs supplements indicate that humans are not supposed to be vegetarians, as nature would not have protein powders. In nature, animals do not carefully plan what they eat. Sometimes you can't find certain types of vegetables, sometimes that patch of vegetables died, if a diet requires advise from trained professionals and careful planning, it certainly isn't natural. Humans are naturally omnivores, which means naturally we're meant to eat meat.
And honestly, why can't I like the taste be a reason? Don't we do a lot of things that are harmful, but fits our fancy? Why do we have air conditioning? Unless the heat is high enough to be dangerous, which it isn't in most cases, why can't we just grin and bear it and save the energy? Why do we have cars, especially in big cities? There are plenty of public transit options, along with walking or bicycling. Why do we have more than 2 sets of clothes, or mattresses, or even the latest computers? We're just wasting resources and creating pollution with all the things that we throw out and creating the demand to create more and more and more. Most things that we have we don't technically need to survive, it just makes our lives easier and more comfortable.