Read this if you're from NZ [Archive]

Nermal

Feb 18, 2004, 11:07 PM

I don't know how long this site's been around for, but please go to http://www.call4change.co.nz and vote. If enough people vote, we might finally get sane broadband pricing :)

This is known as 'local loop unbundling' and it has happened in every other country in the developed world except Mexico.

Doesn't this make us look civilised :rolleyes:

(apologies to anyone from Mexico)

HexMonkey

Feb 18, 2004, 11:31 PM

I voted. :)

It's about time for some decent pricing. A big problem I find is that a lot of programs almost expect that you have a broadband connection and act accordingly, but in New Zealand, most people still have dialup because of the high price of broadband (I was using dialup until last month, now I have a 256 kbps connection with Telstra).

Nermal

Feb 18, 2004, 11:50 PM

Is that cable? I can't get cable where I live (Whakatane) so I'm stuck on 128k DSL :(

HexMonkey

Feb 19, 2004, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Nermal
Is that cable? I can't get cable where I live (Whakatane) so I'm stuck on 128k DSL :(

Yeah, it is. The option has been available here (Christchurch) for the last year or two. It's a pity you can't get faster than 128k, but it could be worse. About 3 or 4 years ago I was still using a 14.4K modem (with a peak speed of 1.2KB a second)!

Nermal

Feb 19, 2004, 12:14 AM

My DSL died the other day so I had to use 56k. I can't stand a connection that slow anymore. It's scary to think that I started off in 1995 with a 4800 bps connection to MSN :eek: Naturally, it didn't take long for me to upgrade to 14.4 (and to switch to a real ISP in the process). I eventually got DSL, back in 2001, and have been waiting for something a bit faster ever since.

Edited for wording (2 days after the original post!)

HexMonkey

Feb 19, 2004, 12:34 AM

I was reminded of the [lack of] speed of slower connections this afternoon when I was downloading a file from a busy server at about 1.3 KB a second. It made we realise me how dependant I've become on cable. :eek:

I think that slower connections were more tolerable a few years ago since people were aware that people used them. Websites and programs were both (generally) much smaller than today.

kiwi_the_iwik

Feb 19, 2004, 04:06 AM

Jeez - that bites guys...

As an ex-pat Kiwi (obviously!) I thought it my duty to add my vote to the petition.

128kps broadband?!?

Wow - there's a rumour around that you folks recently acquired motorcars down there a couple of years back, too.

Could you confirm?

Welcome to the 20th Century!

:rolleyes:

HexMonkey

Feb 19, 2004, 04:13 AM

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
Jeez - that bites guys...

As an ex-pat Kiwi (obviously!) I thought it my duty to add my vote to the petition.

128kps broadband?!?

Wow - there's a rumour around that you folks recently acquired motorcars down there a couple of years back, too.

Could you confirm?

Yeah, I just went outside to look. It took me a while, but I found one. :D

In the main centres we have more options. I think the only ones that are faster than 256 kbps are only aimed at businesses though. :rolleyes:

One day will get some decently priced broadband... But by then the rest of the world will have a 256 Mbps connection and pigs will have been genetically modifed so that they can fly. :D

winmacguy

Feb 20, 2004, 02:17 AM

Well being a JAFA myself, I am only on dial up at the moment but am thinking about getting either Woosh or Jetstream in the not to distant future.

Mac Kiwi

Feb 20, 2004, 03:21 AM

Whoosh wireless is about 300 - 400 to get installed I read,but it has unlimited download for about 60 or 70 bucks,at 256k I think it was.

Telecom must be making an incredible amount of dosh by controling the cables/gouging the customer... :mad:

Nermal

Feb 20, 2004, 04:22 AM

They sure are! If you go to their website, their DSL service is called "Xtra JetStream" - they push you onto Xtra unless you specifically tell them otherwise. And Xtra is horrendously expensive, $35 a month for 5 gigs, most ISPs are $30 a month and offer at least 10 gigs.

kiwi_the_iwik

Feb 20, 2004, 05:16 AM

The quicker that the Government deregulates the telecommunications networks over there, the better. In the UK, we had much the same crap, until the monopoly held by BT came to an end.

Still - THEY haven't learned: Their customer service sucks, and their prices are inflated. Thank goodness for competition - there are hordes of ISPs available to pick up the ball which was fumbled by BT...

To see how we do things over here, check out:

www.adslguide.org

and run a cost comparison.

I wish you guys luck down there - you have the infrastructure of fibre optic networks, and the existing copper wire technology is alredy good enough to give bandwidth of up to 8Mb/s...

...so they have NO excuses, really...

:(

HexMonkey

Feb 20, 2004, 01:31 PM

Read the message below (dated 24/12/03). It looks like the decision was made in December that the local loop will not be unbundled :mad:.
I suspect http://www.call4change.co.nz is older than that.

http://lists.ethernal.org/cantlug-0312/msg00523.html
It looks like the commerce commission has failed us, the local loop won't
be unbundled.

Nermal

Feb 20, 2004, 04:16 PM

That's correct, everyone was expecting it to be unbundled, but it didn't happen. Call4Change is a new website (opened this month), trying to convince the Govt that it NEEDS to be unbundled.

Opteron

Feb 20, 2004, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Nermal
My DSL died the other day so I had to use 56k. I can't stand a connection that slow anymore. It's scary to think that I started off in 1995 with a 4800 bps connection to MSN :eek: Naturally, it didn't take long for me to upgrade to 14.4 (and to switch to a real ISP in the process). I got DSL back in 2001 and have been waiting for something a bit faster ever since.

Is satallite avaliable?

Nermal

Feb 21, 2004, 12:59 AM

No, not at a decent price. It's 10c per MB once you hit a certain (low) limit :eek:

See here (http://www.ihug.co.nz/ultra/) for details, if you dare... ;)

HexMonkey

Feb 21, 2004, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by Nermal
No, not at a decent price. It's 10c per MB once you hit a certain (low) limit :eek:

See here (http://www.ihug.co.nz/ultra/) for details, if you dare... ;)

My school was using an iHug satellite last year. It was the most unreliable connection I've ever seen. Basically, it never worked whenever it was cloudy, and the speed when it was working was not sufficient for a school anyway. :(

kiwi_the_iwik

Feb 21, 2004, 02:47 AM

DATA CAP?!?

Well - SCREW THAT!

Sorry guys - they're really nailing you to the wall. Let the revolution begin...

That MUST be against the Geneva Convention, or something. Let the World know - call the UN, Amnesty International, UNICEF...

...or Batman.

:mad:

It's with stories like this that I remember why I left my beautiful - yet BACKWARD country to seek my fortune afar. Don't these people realise GOOD business sense when they see it? Let's see, now - LOWER the rates, give MORE services, REMOVE the cap - and HEY-PRESTO! LOADS MORE people will sign on the dotted line...

The folks in charge of NZ - and the companies - are MUPPETS. But unfortunately, that's what you get when there's a "brain-drain" (obviously, it's MY generation who are running the country now - and everyone I went to school with pretty much now live abroad. So the only ones left are the idiots who couldn't afford the ticket out at the time, or were too NARROW-MINDED to do the Overseas Experience when they were younger...).

It's a classic case of the MEEK INHERITING THE EARTH.

:rolleyes:

May your plan of action succeed. These bastards can't get away with that kind of crap.

;)

"Could the last one there turn off the lights?"

HexMonkey

Feb 21, 2004, 03:01 AM

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
DATA CAP?!?

Well - SCREW THAT!

Sorry guys - they're really nailing you to the wall. Let the revolution begin...

Indeed they are. Actually until January I had umlimited bandwidth, but that was a 56 kbps connection. Now I've got a 10GB/month limit at almost 10 times the speed (256/56 is not 10, but I could only ever get about 3.5 KB/sec out of the 56K modem)

That MUST be against the Geneva Convention, or something. Let the World know - call the UN, Amnesty International, UNICEF...

...or Batman.

I believe it is in breach of my human rights. Article 5 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is:
"No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."
Now if our internet options are not torture, I don't know what is. :D

It's with stories like this that I remember why I left my beautiful - yet BACKWARD country to seek my fortune afar. Don't these people realise GOOD business sense when they see it? Let's see, now - LOWER the rates, give MORE services, REMOVE the cap - and HEY-PRESTO! LOADS MORE people will sign on the dotted line...

And in the future unbundling will undoubtedly have good effects on our economy. So why not? Sometimes I think the country's run by monkeys...

Nermal

Feb 21, 2004, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by HexMonkey
And in the future unbundling will undoubtedly have good effects on our economy. So why not? Sometimes I think the country's run by monkeys...

So says someone who calls himself a monkey :rolleyes: (albeit one with 6 sides) ;)

HexMonkey

Feb 21, 2004, 03:48 AM

Originally posted by Nermal
So says someone who calls himself a monkey :rolleyes: (albeit one with 6 sides) ;)

I knew someone would point that out! Sorry, I can't think of any good comebacks. ;)

Nermal

Feb 21, 2004, 03:53 AM

Word's getting around :) A friend of mine has just changed her MSN username to "Tired of Telecom? FIGHT THE MONOPOLY! Click the YES and STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS! www.call4choice.co.nz", or something to that effect :)

ingenious

Feb 21, 2004, 09:28 AM

Man, you NZ guys are so lucky. Some places in the states don't even have true broadband. Just recently did my area get some sort of wireless T3 installed that's fast (supposedly 2.5 mb/s) but its way too expensive. Then there's a horrid ISDN line from the mom and pop ISP in town that disconnects all the time. Also, the cable company decides it's going to add its (who knows, maybe horrid too?) own connection to the mix? I'm j waiting on 56k until something short of $40/50 USD comes into range. I wish we could vote on that!

Nermal

Feb 21, 2004, 03:35 PM

"Broadband" is defined as 256 kb/s or faster. Only about 10% of NZers live in an area where you can get broadband without paying per MB. Everyone else must use 128k DSL (or dialup if they're in a rural area) if they want a "flat rate" connection.

I've seen some broadband pricing in the US, stuff like EarthLink's 1.5 Mb/s DSL for $49.95 per month. That's about NZ$70 per month, which would get you what the local telco calls "JetStream 1000". JS1000 gives you a connection up to 8 Mb/s, with a data cap of 1000 MB. Go over that 1000 MB and you pay 20c per MB (US 14c).

I appreciate that different parts of the US would have different services available, after all you have different providers etc. Here in NZ the phone system was owned by the Government, and was sold to a private company (Telecom) in 1989. Telecom then proceeded to rip off the consumer as much as possible :mad:

And that is what the website's all about. We're voting to have a choice of phone provider. Right now, we have no choice. We must use Telecom. Hopefully enough people will vote, and we'll be able to choose our own provider.

Since I'm ranting, I might as well add a quick cost comparison. Currently I'm paying Telecom:

Phone Line $38.95
128k DSL Connection $29.95
Plus $30 to my ISP
TOTAL $98.90

If I was to switch to, say, Telstra, they offer a phone line, 256k DSL, and ISP connection for $69.95 per month - a saving of $28.95 (US$20). Currently, to get that deal, you have to live in an area where Telstra has run their own cables. Hopefully they'll extend these prices nationwide.

Anyway, I'm sure you're all tired of reading by now :rolleyes:

Nermal

Feb 21, 2004, 04:28 PM

I just remembered something...

The current system is fully capable of delivering ridiculously high speeds. A few months ago, there was a failure which caused everyone's 128k connections to speed up into the megabits. It lasted about 3 days, and it was fast for everyone - it didn't slow down due to a massive bandwidth strain. And, of course, I downloaded a lot of stuff over those few days :D

Go BitTorrent and Direct Connect! :D

Nermal

Feb 22, 2004, 10:57 PM

Just heard on the radio today that only 2% of NZers have voted, so tell your friends!

Mac Kiwi

Feb 23, 2004, 02:50 AM

Its in the latest Consumer mag guys.Swain was all for unbundling,then Telecom paid him a visit and he quickly changed his mind.I do believe though that Telecom uses what could be called veiled threats to drag their heels in other areas if unbundling goes ahead.

The upshot is now they{Telecom} have gotten just to powerful to screw with easily without consequences in other areas.

Nermal

Feb 23, 2004, 04:30 PM

Apparently the Commerce Commission have recommended that we don't unbundle. However, I have my suspicions that Telecom has told the CC to recommend staying bundled.

HexMonkey

Feb 24, 2004, 12:41 PM

And now the Americans are complaining that their broadband is slow... :confused:

Article:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_09/b3872049.htm
Discussion:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61776

parrothead

Feb 26, 2004, 02:01 PM

Maybe you guys could train a flock of kea to fly to the telecom offices and make such a cheeky raucous unholy racket that they would have to change their internet policies. Seriously though, that sucks for you guys down there. But look on the bright side, just about everthing else about New Zealand is so much better than anything anywhere else! (I have a not so secret desire to immigrate)

Nermal

Feb 26, 2004, 05:56 PM

There was an ad on a while ago where a family drive to what looks like a walking track in the middle of nowhere. They get out of the car, lock it, and head on up the track.

A flock come along and fly down to the car, and proceed to pull the rubber out of the window frames. The family returns, they get in the car, and all the windows fall out :D

Advertising insurance if you didn't already figure it out :)

parrothead

Feb 26, 2004, 07:01 PM

YES! I wish I could have seen that ad! The Kea is my all time favorite creature. I love how cheeky they are. I lived in NZ for a couple of months and while I was on a hike to the Fox Glacier they came and ripped my windscreen wipers and door rubber off. I came back from the hike and found them on my car and just before I could get my zoom lens focused somebody meaning well shooed them away. They were quite surprised by the yank that emitted a yelp of dismay!

Golem

Feb 26, 2004, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by parrothead
YES! I wish I could have seen that ad! The Kea is my all time favorite creature. I love how cheeky they are. I lived in NZ for a couple of months and while I was on a hike to the Fox Glacier they came and ripped my windscreen wipers and door rubber off.!

I was in the South Island 20 odd years back sitting out a marginal Skiing day reading in the sunshine. Over the course of the day Kea's just destroyed the Vinyl roof on a Cortina about 100 meters away.

In comparison for priceing Telstra in Sydney give me a 1Gig plan for $65 AU on Cable. It maxes out about 700/128 but I plan to upgrade to their new "unlimited" (10gig) plan at $69.95 soon , certainly before WOW comes out:)

Oh and 3800bps modem is fast compared to a 220 bps modem, from memory it brought down text about typing speed and you attached it to your phone.

Nermal

Feb 27, 2004, 12:06 AM

Telstra's NZ cable plans are here (http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/products/internet/highspeed/). Hopefully DSL prices will be similar once unbundling's occurred, because currently DSL is expensive (http://www.telecom.co.nz/chm/0,5123,203071-202534,00.html).

Nermal

Feb 27, 2004, 09:50 PM

Amazing, we're up to 500 views. I wonder whether any foreigners voted on the site?

Golem

Feb 28, 2004, 07:48 AM

[i]
In comparison for priceing Telstra in Sydney give me a 1Gig plan for $65 AU on Cable. It maxes out about 700/128 but I plan to upgrade to their new "unlimited" (10gig) plan at $69.95 soon , certainly before WOW comes out:)
[/B]

Well Telstra just dropped it too $60 for 10gig and since that is cheaper than my 1 gig plan I swapped real quick:)

Nermal

May 19, 2004, 02:22 PM

Telecommunications Minister Paul Swain announced his decision today - not to implement unbundling :mad:

I don't like to call people names, but, for the world to see:

PAUL SWAIN IS AN IDIOT!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Read and weep. (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3567444)

Nermal

Jul 26, 2004, 03:41 AM

Wake up, sleepy thread, wake up... :rolleyes:

Today Telecom announced that they're discontinuing their flat-rate DSL service (which runs at 128 kb/s) at the end of the year. Fortunately, they're going to offer "wholesale DSL" to ISPs, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Blue Velvet

Jul 26, 2004, 04:33 AM

BTW: What's this I've heard about Helen Clark dressed up as a paua?

Nermal

Jul 30, 2004, 11:19 PM

Don't ask me, I only read the technology news :D

Nermal

Sep 24, 2004, 01:28 AM

Warning: Thread revival! :eek:

Telecom today announced 2 Mb/s DSL with no excess data charges, for $59.95/month (plus ISP). It's about time!

cb911

Sep 24, 2004, 01:45 AM

Telecom? i dont' know if this is the same company we're talking about... but over here they changed their name to Telstra years ago. :p

but that is a good price. i don't even know if there's anything like that in Australia yet? :eek: :confused:

Nermal

Sep 24, 2004, 02:04 AM

Telecom is the local monopoly. Telstra operates over here too, usually with better service and cheaper prices (although Telecom's monopoly limits what they can do).

Edit: I just remembered that Telecom operates in Australia too, but under than name APPT or something. Some of their pricing looks better over there, but some of it seems worse too (they seem to charge for local phone calls! :eek: )

cb911

Sep 24, 2004, 03:13 AM

ah, okay then. yep i know AAPT. aren't they based in Indonesia now? :confused:

i think that slowly we are getting better prices for broadband, or even broadband for that matter. i used to check out whirlpool.net.au for all the ISP news, i remember they had a thing about the definition of 'broadband' about a couple of years ago. and by definition, Australia didn't even have 'real' broadband. and i think we're only just starting to get there now.

but my bro was just talking about a 1.5Mbit with a limit of 36GB a month, with a $3 per GB fee over that limit, but free, uncapped between certain hours of night. that was around $86 i think.

right now i'm paying about AU$90 a month for 512k ADSL, but it's uncapped, which is good. :D hopefully some better deals will come out and i can step up to real broadband.

Nermal

Sep 24, 2004, 04:01 AM

It's only in the last few months that Telecom's realised that people don't want to pay for excess traffic. When they first started offering DSL back in 1998 (at up to 8 Mb/s), you could choose between a 600 or 1200 MB cap (although higher caps up to 10 GB were available for businesses). In 2001 (I think) they introduced a slower service (128) with no data cap. By the end of the year, many ISPs were losing a lot of money so they started putting caps on, most chose 10 GB.

Telecom have 'discovered' speed limiting now, rather than making you pay for excess. I've heard that they do this in Australia too - slow down your connection once you hit a certain limit.

By the way, they don't seem to be (http://www.aapt.com.au/about/profile/index.asp) based in Indonesia.

Nermal

Apr 23, 2005, 06:21 AM

Fast-forward by 7 months and we get some more good news (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3256204a13,00.html) :) (not that there's anything wrong with my $45 (US$33) 2 Mb/s connection)

skunk

Apr 23, 2005, 06:55 AM

Over the course of the day Kea's just destroyed the Vinyl roof on a Cortina about 100 meters away.Aaahh! Cortina: those were the days...
:)

mad jew

Apr 23, 2005, 07:00 AM

Telecom have 'discovered' speed limiting now, rather than making you pay for excess. I've heard that they do this in Australia too - slow down your connection once you hit a certain limit.

Yeah, quite a few ISPs do that. They mainly throttle it back to 64kbps or something.

HexMonkey

Apr 23, 2005, 06:32 PM

Fast-forward by 7 months and we get some more good news (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3256204a13,00.html) :) (not that there's anything wrong with my $45 (US$33) 2 Mb/s connection)

I read that in the newspaper a couple of days ago. Hopefully it will mean higher caps, currently I'm supposed to use under 500 MB a month because the connection is shared amongst a family full of internet users.

I use almost that much on MacRumors! :eek: