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MacRumors
Feb 19, 2004, 05:16 AM
ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/macosx10332.html) that Apple has seded Mac OS X 10.3.3 to developers.

Major changes include Carbon, Cocoa, Core OS, Graphics and Imaging, High Level ToolBox, Printing, and USB."

The previous 10.3.3 seed was pulled (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/02/20040205071324.shtml) due to a major bug on 20" iMacs.

johnnyjibbs
Feb 19, 2004, 05:21 AM
Sounds good. I guess they've fixed whatever caused 20" iMacs to explode :D. Nice to see Carbon applications getting improvements as well as Cocoa - I find there is quite a difference in the performance of the two types. Also, I'm hoping the OpenGL improvements will be noticable in games playing.

fBaran
Feb 19, 2004, 05:21 AM
How good can they make shift+F9 look? Hot diggity. Yay, I'm second!

johnnyjibbs
Feb 19, 2004, 05:29 AM
all the American's are still in bed!

I hope this update arrives soon, I reckon in the next week (not that there's really anything wrong with 10.3.2 mind)

centauratlas
Feb 19, 2004, 05:33 AM
So does this mean we'll see Powerbook G5s today?

:D

[I am kidding]
:p

What is interesting is where they say focus your testing.

Interiority
Feb 19, 2004, 05:35 AM
Excellent news - it seems ages since the previous seed was pulled. Hopefully this will be the last major set of bug fixes, and Apple can begin to focus more development attention on 10.4...

SpaceMagic
Feb 19, 2004, 05:36 AM
What you on about? 10.3.2 is awful on my 1.8 G5 and iBook, it crashes all the time - even got my first "You must restart" box the other day!

stefman
Feb 19, 2004, 05:39 AM
Cool, I love all the OS updates!

MasterMac
Feb 19, 2004, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by SpaceMagic
What you on about? 10.3.2 is awful on my 1.8 G5 and iBook, it crashes all the time - even got my first "You must restart" box the other day! Have you tried an archive & install or something on your comps? Personally, 10.3.2 for me has been really stable. Only had to restart because of a game which doesn't like my video card :rolleyes:

JFreak
Feb 19, 2004, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by stefman
Cool, I love all the OS updates!

especially the one that killed batteries... :P

stocke2
Feb 19, 2004, 06:39 AM
hopefully they will put perl.h back in where it belongs, so I can install the perl modules I need

~Shard~
Feb 19, 2004, 06:40 AM
Great news, can't wait for it! Just curious, what exactly was the big problem with 20" iMacs and the earlier seed?

Gorbag
Feb 19, 2004, 06:44 AM
Hopefully this also includes the mLan updates so that the new Yamaha 01-X mixer/audio interface now has native support.
I note that the release asks developers to concentrate on Firewire/usb video/audio.

Anybody heard any more on this?

MacQuest
Feb 19, 2004, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
...what exactly was the big problem with 20" iMacs and the earlier seed?

spontaneous combustion.

JFreak
Feb 19, 2004, 06:46 AM
i have a bad feeling about my protools system not functioning after the update. i might have to postpone the update for some time, until digidesign comments about this.

cb911
Feb 19, 2004, 06:48 AM
sweet. better OpenGL games performance! :D

hopefully this update could fix alot of things. :) can't wait.

AppleMatt
Feb 19, 2004, 06:53 AM
I also hope games will see a noticeable improvement, but I have a suspicion that it will be a fix for the "full-screen single color on resolution change" bug. If we're lucky, there will be both! (Remember Apple has had a few games developer conferences recently)

Two questions though:
What exactly is a high-level toolbox, I thought I had grasped the idea but now I'm not so sure. Can someone (possibly DaveL?) give a descent definition/explanation.

Also, there was a documented bug with 10.3.2 that slowed application startup, I'm not at the right machine at the mo, but when I get home I'll post the info. Anyone confirm if this is fixed or not? (Please don't confuse with the long system-startup bug). I'm refraining from installing developer builds when I'm not at home.

AppleMatt

Photorun
Feb 19, 2004, 06:58 AM
Though I know it ain't happening, I'd like Apple to put back network browswer that way it was back during 10.2.x and maybe have it so printer drivers would have actual controls again.

groovebuster
Feb 19, 2004, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by MasterMac
Personally, 10.3.2 for me has been really stable. Only had to restart because of a game which doesn't like my video card :rolleyes:

Lucky you! On all my machines 10.3.2 causes the IP stack to freeze the machine after deep sleep or sometimes even after New Start. It never happened before the update.

I really hope that they fix this problem with 10.3.3! Otheriwse I will downgrade again to 10.3.1! :(

groovebuster

wrldwzrd89
Feb 19, 2004, 07:17 AM
I've had very little in the way of stability problems with 10.3.2. I don't have any nagging issues I want to see fixed in 10.3.3; however, core OS updates are usually a good thing. Let's hope Apple and their army of testers can find and isolate the cause of any remaining bugs and get 10.3.3 to release quality within their expected timeframe for release (and don't encounter "showstopper" bugs like the problem with the earlier seed and the 20" iMac).

edit: grammar

johnnyjibbs
Feb 19, 2004, 07:23 AM
I'll be happy if it solves the boot time issue. I rarely ever power down or restart, but it would be nice for it start up quickly again.

ifjake
Feb 19, 2004, 07:30 AM
i guess i had heard that people were finding a way to decrease the start up time with 10.3.2. i'm not exactly sure, but i think i was hearing that the .2 upgrade some how neglected to link the proper files or whatever that would expedite the boot up process, and that you could fix it yourself in the console, or you could wait for the next upgrade. i wonder if there was any truth in that. what i really expect these upgrades to do is just that though. streamline processes, optimize routines and such so that there's a little bit of a speed boost, as well as fix the occasional bug. i'm curious as to what goes on behind the scenes with these things.

m2uk
Feb 19, 2004, 07:31 AM
Fixing the firewire bugs might be nice ! And then SMB/network browsing generally.

wchamlet
Feb 19, 2004, 07:33 AM
I still haven't upgraded to 10.3, and I don't really see a reason too. I'm curious as to wether or not Apple is intending to update every .x increment, like 10.2-10.3-10.4? I don't really see the logic in it, especially considering that 10.2 still works perfect, at least for me. I can see why they need to update the OS, so don't misunderstand me. I just don't see the need to update the OS with a few improvements, every year.

johnnyjibbs
Feb 19, 2004, 07:35 AM
Yes it would be nice if the Finder didn't crash so often when browsing Windows networks.

As for the boot issue, I think I heard of something like that but I don't know what the hell I'm doing with the terminal so I leave well alone. I don't like executing a command that I have no idea what it's doing.

scat999999
Feb 19, 2004, 07:54 AM
It just doesn't work in Panther, so I have to keep one of my computers running Jaguar.

SiliconAddict
Feb 19, 2004, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by stefman
Cool, I love all the OS updates!


*sighs* And yet everyone bitches about MS updates....... :rolleyes:

Gizmotoy
Feb 19, 2004, 07:59 AM
The article says bugs in "networking" were addressed.

Here's to hoping for a working Windows SMB share browser. It's completely useless as it is...

Stewie
Feb 19, 2004, 08:17 AM
When they fix the Networking problems in Panther I will be happy! But it doesn't look like they are addressing them in this fix :confused:

kcmac
Feb 19, 2004, 08:26 AM
Go here (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=48409524&m=146001552631) for a list comparison of OS updates for MS, RedHat and Mac OS X.

MS - 69
RedHat - +90 (Appears only 25 seem to be relevant.)
Mac OS X - 29

Bear
Feb 19, 2004, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by wchamlet
I still haven't upgraded to 10.3, and I don't really see a reason too. I'm curious as to wether or not Apple is intending to update every .x increment, like 10.2-10.3-10.4? I don't really see the logic in it, especially considering that 10.2 still works perfect, at least for me. I can see why they need to update the OS, so don't misunderstand me. I just don't see the need to update the OS with a few improvements, every year. Well, everybody has theere own wants and/or needs.

What 10.3 improved for me was the speed of anything that was memory or disk intensive. This includes the first stage of burning a CD-R or DVD-R where you're copying files to the image.

Just do what you think you need, but you may find features of programs and new versions of programs don't wrok correctly.

Although you may get away with skipping 10.3, you may want to consider 10.4 (presuming that's the next major release).

awulf
Feb 19, 2004, 09:00 AM
On my Power Mac running 10.3.2 when I format my USB Flash Drive to MS-DOS format and try to copy a file to it my whole system hangs... First the finder gets the beach ball, then I try to open up the terminal to login as su but then that just hangs there (if I do get in and type 'reboot' te system hangs in the process), if I try to use Fast User Switching the computer hangs. It was fine in 10.2

Then again my USB drive also crashes OS 9 computers. It's an Apacer Handy Steno TN202, it works fine in Windows.

amberashby
Feb 19, 2004, 09:09 AM
I hope they fix the firewire issues. Particularly the problem with using iSight in combination with a firewire hard drive. Quite a few threads on this problem in the Apple discussion boards.

Open GL improvements would be nice. UT2004 demo already rocks on my G5!!!

backdrifter
Feb 19, 2004, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by stocke2
hopefully they will put perl.h back in where it belongs, so I can install the perl modules I need

If you are smart enough to realize it is not in the right place, you are more than capable of making a softlink (ln -s) in the place where the modules look for it.

I don't install too many odd UNIX source packages on OS X, but I have softlinks all over the place on my linux system to accomodate programs with eccentricities.

~Shard~
Feb 19, 2004, 09:43 AM
Improved networking with my Windows box would definitely be a welcome update!

jouster
Feb 19, 2004, 09:47 AM
Here's hoping this one is stable (at least for me).

I'm envious of all those here who are having such a smooth Panther experience. While not by any means awful, Panther has been far less stable on my TiBook than was Jag.

In about 1.25 yrs of Jag I had maybe three hangs/kernel panics.

Recently I've been having three per week in Panther. :(

virividox
Feb 19, 2004, 09:55 AM
yay hope it doesnt get pulled again

fatzmack
Feb 19, 2004, 10:04 AM
i'd like to comment that a significant about of problems with any os is the result of bad maintenance by the user... not to say that's really why some of you experience such problems mentioned here.

just thought i'd throw in that perspective though.

stcanard
Feb 19, 2004, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
*sighs* And yet everyone bitches about MS updates....... :rolleyes:

This has gone into before, but there is a massive difference:

Apple: I'm happy with my OS now, and every update seems to make it faster and/or add new features. I love OSX updates.

MS: I'm not happy with a number of features / performance issues in XP, and every update seems to either have no apparent difference to my experience, or at worst, takes feautures away or slows down parts of my system. I bitch about MS updates.

It's not the updates that determine the attitude ... it's what the updates do.

jouster
Feb 19, 2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by stcanard
This has gone into before, but there is a massive difference:

Apple: I'm happy with my OS now, and every update seems to make it faster and/or add new features. I love OSX updates.


Mmmmm..

I especially liked the one that borked battery life...or the one that hosed people's ethernet.

However, I don't recall the one that upgraded support for rose tinted spectacles. You certainly seem to have gotten it, though.

:rolleyes:

Apple's upgrades are *far* from perfect.

displaced
Feb 19, 2004, 10:33 AM
*fires up Microsoft Software Update Services admin page on company server*

*views update counts*

IE 5.0x -- 268 updates
IE 5.5 -- 119 updates
IE 6.x -- 326 updates
Windows 2000 -- 1755 updates
Windows XP -- 1482 updates
Windows Server 2003 -- 355 updates

These are only English updates classed as 'critical', although some updates replace others.

So don't even *bother* comparing OS X to Windows!

Stolid
Feb 19, 2004, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by displaced
*fires up Microsoft Software Update Services admin page on company server*

*views update counts*

IE 5.0x -- 268 updates
IE 5.5 -- 119 updates
IE 6.x -- 326 updates
Windows 2000 -- 1755 updates
Windows XP -- 1482 updates
Windows Server 2003 -- 355 updates

These are only English updates classed as 'critical', although some updates replace others.

So don't even *bother* comparing OS X to Windows!
I agree - you can't compare the updates. OS X tends to have update 'series' where you fix 10+ things in a patch. Microsoft tends to release very spot patches for a specific bug.
If you really wanted, you could compare say that OSX 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3 are equvilient to Microsoft "Service Packs" -- which actually puts MS as having /less/ patches (as compared to WinXP). It's apples and oranges.
Windows users really don't have a big excuse with XP because of automatic updating; but people love to beat on the 'big guy'.
Everyone has patches.

geerlingguy
Feb 19, 2004, 10:59 AM
My question: Will Apple finally fix the USB 2.0 sleeping problems on the G4 iBooks? If I unplug my iBook from a USB 2 device, sleep it, then wake it and plug it back in, the USB 2 doesn't work (USB 1.1 will still work, though). I've repeated the process on other laptops, with many different USB 2 devices, and the problem is replicated. Sounds like a software problem to me :mad:

invaLPsion
Feb 19, 2004, 11:07 AM
Now that 10.3.3 is reseeded the update can't be far off! And with that update, POWERMACS! Woo Hoo!

vrapan
Feb 19, 2004, 11:20 AM
why exactly 10.3.3 implies PM updates? Have I missed something???

macFanDave
Feb 19, 2004, 11:20 AM
[
Mmmmm..

I especially liked the one that borked battery life

It didn't really "bork" the battery life, it just screwed up the time remaining calculation that was reported. My iBook battery at full charge would report somewhere nearly three hours and after the 10.2.8 update (the first) it maxed out at about 1:40. However, I used the iBook in that state for well over two hours...and the re-release of the 10.2.8 update fixed it (and Panther makes the battery life even better). So the first update did not "bork" the real battery life just like the second version did not "unbork" anything.

coumerelli
Feb 19, 2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by stcanard
This has gone into before, but there is a massive difference:

Apple: I'm happy with my OS now, and every update seems to make it faster and/or add new features. I love OSX updates.

MS: I'm not happy with a number of features / performance issues in XP, and every update seems to either have no apparent difference to my experience, or at worst, takes feautures away or slows down parts of my system. I bitch about MS updates.

It's not the updates that determine the attitude ... it's what the updates do.

you took the words right out of my mouth and beat me to it. But I might add that although there is always a chance for an enhancment (the thrilling part) there is sometimes another issue that crops up. But hey, what can you expect from an os that does a million and one things, eh? ;) :p

john123
Feb 19, 2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by fatzmack
i'd like to comment that a significant about of problems with any os is the result of bad maintenance by the user... not to say that's really why some of you experience such problems mentioned here.

just thought i'd throw in that perspective though.

I'm neurotically anal about maintaining my own system, but I have to say that the incremental updates of 10.2.8, 10.3.1, and 10.3.2 have really sucked. For the oodles of things fixed, other things seem to go wrong.

john123
Feb 19, 2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by macFanDave
It didn't really "bork" the battery life, it just screwed up the time remaining calculation that was reported. My iBook battery at full charge would report somewhere nearly three hours and after the 10.2.8 update (the first) it maxed out at about 1:40. However, I used the iBook in that state for well over two hours...and the re-release of the 10.2.8 update fixed it (and Panther makes the battery life even better). So the first update did not "bork" the real battery life just like the second version did not "unbork" anything.

Nah, there are a couple issues here. For some people, the 10.2.8 (v1) update really did kill their batteries. Not the timer -- the batteries' abilities to charge and to hold a charge.

For others (me included), the issue has been one of the timer, just like you described above. (With no fix, might I add....it's annoying to have your computer go into forced sleep when it shows about 50% battery life on the monitor.)

daveL
Feb 19, 2004, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by AppleMatt
I also hope games will see a noticeable improvement, but I have a suspicion that it will be a fix for the "full-screen single color on resolution change" bug. If we're lucky, there will be both! (Remember Apple has had a few games developer conferences recently)

Two questions though:
What exactly is a high-level toolbox, I thought I had grasped the idea but now I'm not so sure. Can someone (possibly DaveL?) give a descent definition/explanation.

Also, there was a documented bug with 10.3.2 that slowed application startup, I'm not at the right machine at the mo, but when I get home I'll post the info. Anyone confirm if this is fixed or not? (Please don't confuse with the long system-startup bug). I'm refraining from installing developer builds when I'm not at home.

AppleMatt
The high-level toolbox gives you menus, buttons and all the other human interface widgets.

HTH

I haven't gotten it dl'd yet, so I can't comment. With the long delay since pulling the initial seed, I would suspect that this seed won't be out long before it's released as final. At least, I hope that's the case.

daveL
Feb 19, 2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
Yes it would be nice if the Finder didn't crash so often when browsing Windows networks.

As for the boot issue, I think I heard of something like that but I don't know what the hell I'm doing with the terminal so I leave well alone. I don't like executing a command that I have no idea what it's doing.
Search the MR archives. There's a thread on this. The fix is just a symbolic link to the boot cache so it's detected properly on boot up. The first time you reboot, you won't see a difference, but from there on out the difference is noticeable.

daveL
Feb 19, 2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by daveL
The high-level toolbox gives you menus, buttons and all the other human interface widgets.

HTH

I haven't gotten it dl'd yet, so I can't comment. With the long delay since pulling the initial seed, I would suspect that this seed won't be out long before it's released as final. At least, I hope that's the case.
Forget to mention that the HL Toolkit is Carbon.

johnnyjibbs
Feb 19, 2004, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Stolid
I agree - you can't compare the updates. OS X tends to have update 'series' where you fix 10+ things in a patch. Microsoft tends to release very spot patches for a specific bug.
If you really wanted, you could compare say that OSX 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3 are equvilient to Microsoft "Service Packs" -- which actually puts MS as having /less/ patches (as compared to WinXP). It's apples and oranges.
Windows users really don't have a big excuse with XP because of automatic updating; but people love to beat on the 'big guy'.
Everyone has patches.
I'd say that 10.3 did a hell of a lot more than a Windows service pack (likewise, 10.2 did that befoe it). Windows service packs tend to just be bug fixes that should have been sorted out long ago (e.g. there's going to be a two year gap between XP SP 1 and 2) and don't add many new features (XP service pack 2 mainly adds a pop-up blocker to IE (finally), for instance).

No-one can help bugs and issues, even if they do a good job with the programming. There will always be bugs. The way I see it, it's good that we get the updates to fix these issues quickly, not having to wait 2 years for a service pack to add/resume the functionality.

And it's an added bonus that, with each update, Mac OS X seems to get faster and faster. I guess I'm lucky that no update has messed things up for me yet.

mrdeep
Feb 19, 2004, 12:40 PM
I always thought of the winxp service packs as "all the updates we've made up to now" in one shot rather than 50 (or something) with the potential need to restart several times. So it would be more like 10.3.2 or 10.3.3 rather than 10.2 or 10.3.

Stolid
Feb 19, 2004, 01:11 PM
It's not a perfect comparison - which was exactly my point. MS doesn't charge for service packs, they also don't add features like Expose in them.
I can't say one is better than the other; I use both regularly and have my complaints about both Mac OSX and Windows XP (and my Linux and Win2k3 servers).
I use Mac OSX when I want "usable UNIX" or a large number of periphs (i.e. dig cams), I use Windows when I want to "just install this software," I use Linux when I want to futz with things as low as BIOS interupts :P
A lot of people can't afford/don't want to learn all these systems though; and I can't expect them to (nor do I think they should).

ifjake
Feb 19, 2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by virividox
yay hope it doesnt get pulled again

actually to me, the longer it takes for these things to be released, the more time they have to tweak it and fix things, and the longer they will last. i think it would be good not to issue a major upgrade, such as from jaguar to panther, that kind of thing, until all of the hardware goes 64-bit, and then release a 64-bit OS. true that may take 1 or 2 years or more, but it seems like it would be more worth the time, effort and money. i'm curious as to what is apple's current plan of action. but i'm sure they would never tell.

geerlingguy
Feb 19, 2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by ifjake
actually to me, the longer it takes for these things to be released, the more time they have to tweak it and fix things, and the longer they will last. i think it would be good not to issue a major upgrade, such as from jaguar to panther, that kind of thing, until all of the hardware goes 64-bit, and then release a 64-bit OS. true that may take 1 or 2 years or more, but it seems like it would be more worth the time, effort and money. i'm curious as to what is apple's current plan of action. but i'm sure they would never tell.

Yes, but I don't think the iBook will become G5 until sometime 2006 at EARLIEST. Remember how long it took Apple to stick a G4 into the iBook (just last fall...). Over three years since the G4's introduction. I would guess that Apple won't be releasing a full-bore 64-bit OS for at least 5 years. Until then, there may be increased 64 bit functions, or parts that only work with 64-bit procs (like Quartz Extreme only worked with AGP 2X 32MB or higher...).

Which is why I just bought my iBook G4. It won't be G5 anytime soon, and neither will the eMac.

The one thing I don't understand is, why doesn't Apple take the X.3 server and make it all-out 64 bit quickly. That would be awesome!

lessthandmb
Feb 19, 2004, 02:18 PM
There is still a large problem with 10.3.x for most audio guys who use a usb or firewire interface or control surface. There is constant crunching, pops and cracks coming through the speakers that not only are annoying to myself but to clients as well. Im using a tascam us-428 and never had this problem until g5/panther. Does anyone know if this is a hardware issue or os issue? I sure hope this new update will fix it....it sounds like it might.

ratspg
Feb 19, 2004, 02:42 PM
increase boot up and hook up some updated quartz and u got me! lol I predict a saturday-tuesday release haha

3.1416
Feb 19, 2004, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by geerlingguy
Yes, but I don't think the iBook will become G5 until sometime 2006 at EARLIEST. Remember how long it took Apple to stick a G4 into the iBook

True, but the difference between the G5 and G4 is much greater than the difference between a G4 and G3. Plus the G4 is pretty clearly at a dead end; I expect Apple will try to stop using it as soon as possible. I think the iBook and eMac will get G5s around the middle of next year.

I would guess that Apple won't be releasing a full-bore 64-bit OS for at least 5 years.

Depends on what you mean by "full-bore". 32-bit processors should be supported for quite a while. I do expect that OS X 10.4 will allow individual processes to access more than 4GB of memory, which is the primary benefit of a 64-bit processor.

billyboy
Feb 19, 2004, 03:28 PM
Can anyone tell me what my Dad needs to do exactly to get patches etc automatically installed on XP Home Edition? At the moment his software update service consists of me emailing him every so often after reading stuff on the net about critical patches.

fatbarstard
Feb 19, 2004, 03:41 PM
Its jolly nice to see Apple continuing to develop and improve OS X but how big is this sucker going to be?? 40MB, 50MB?? How long until the first 100MB update from Apple??

10.3.2 has been very stable for me, although waking from sleep still take a while sometimes...


For Billyboy... tell your father to solve all bhis problems at once and get a Mac... that's all he has to do.... :D

FatSweatyChimp
Feb 19, 2004, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by billyboy
Can anyone tell me what my Dad needs to do exactly to get patches etc automatically installed on XP Home Edition? At the moment his software update service consists of me emailing him every so often after reading stuff on the net about critical patches.

Right click My Computer // Properties // Automatic Updates.

john123
Feb 19, 2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by fatbarstard
Its jolly nice to see Apple continuing to develop and improve OS X but how big is this sucker going to be?? 40MB, 50MB?? How long until the first 100MB update from Apple??

10.3.2 has been very stable for me, although waking from sleep still take a while sometimes...


For Billyboy... tell your father to solve all bhis problems at once and get a Mac... that's all he has to do.... :D

Apple has done near-100MB updater files in the past. The 10.2.8 combo updater was between 70-80 MB, if I recall.

I remember a few years ago, when servers clogged like crazy when OS 9.1 and OS 9.2 updaters came out. It was TOUGH getting those downloads. Apple's done a great job streamlining things and lining up capacity so that, when a new update is available, it's almost always speedy.

vrapan
Feb 19, 2004, 04:07 PM
the thing is that they increase the size and i believe the next updates will only increase. So i really do not understand why they do not let magazines to put them in their CDs

daveL
Feb 19, 2004, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by fatbarstard
Its jolly nice to see Apple continuing to develop and improve OS X but how big is this sucker going to be?? 40MB, 50MB?? How long until the first 100MB update from Apple??

10.3.2 has been very stable for me, although waking from sleep still take a while sometimes...


For Billyboy... tell your father to solve all bhis problems at once and get a Mac... that's all he has to do.... :D
69.4 MB

wrldwzrd89
Feb 19, 2004, 04:58 PM
I bet 69.4 MB isn't the final size. I wouldn't be surprised if it hits 70 MB (or even 75 MB) before it's released. I've had good luck with previous Mac OS X updates, so I expect good things of this update, too (despite it being rather large).

elgruga
Feb 19, 2004, 06:06 PM
I want to see Mail fixed - it has too many problems and not enough features to beat Entourage, and I HATE using Msh*t products.

And how about fixing the lousy FAX software in X?
Cant be that difficult to actually store the faxes after they have been sent and actually TELL you that they have been sent?

Apart from that, X is the best OS bar none, and even if they never fix Mail or FAX, I still love it.

But I wish they would fix them.........

elgruga
Feb 19, 2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by vrapan
the thing is that they increase the size and i believe the next updates will only increase. So i really do not understand why they do not let magazines to put them in their CDs

YES! Why the hell dont they? Wouldnt it be good advertising as well?

ingenious
Feb 19, 2004, 06:28 PM
theres a console script that you can run that relinks a startup file they missed that fixes the slow start ups (i used to have to wait for the mac os x startup bar to go all the way across, now it j goes to "waiting for network initialization" and it's there!) It was a sudo command and you had to run it (at least i did) from another networked mac os x computer by logging in remotely. I dont remember what it was.



Caleb

I hope that they fix the intermittent freezing in finder, expecially in ms and macromedia apps, and in expose'.


P.S. I'm posting this in two forums... so if youre confused, now youre not! :D

futurephase
Feb 19, 2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by lessthandmb
There is still a large problem with 10.3.x for most audio guys who use a usb or firewire interface or control surface. There is constant crunching, pops and cracks coming through the speakers that not only are annoying to myself but to clients as well. Im using a tascam us-428 and never had this problem until g5/panther. Does anyone know if this is a hardware issue or os issue? I sure hope this new update will fix it....it sounds like it might.

You think it's software related? Did you ever have Jaguar on the G5? From what I was reading on the Apple discussion boards, it's a problem with the power supply in the PM G5s. It's not working for me right now but this is the thread I had bookmarked about it --

http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?128@195.A9FQanircnY.7@.599d2ccf

I was getting ready to call AppleCare and see about getting a replacement for my power supply. I'd much prefer a software update that fixes it.

Glial
Feb 19, 2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by displaced
*fires up Microsoft Software Update Services admin page on company server*

*views update counts*

IE 5.0x -- 268 updates
IE 5.5 -- 119 updates
IE 6.x -- 326 updates
Windows 2000 -- 1755 updates
Windows XP -- 1482 updates
Windows Server 2003 -- 355 updates

These are only English updates classed as 'critical', although some updates replace others.

So don't even *bother* comparing OS X to Windows!

Installed Win Server 2003 server today.

5 updates....not 355.

Can you post a link to your info?

ingenious
Feb 19, 2004, 07:37 PM
I am sooo glad my school has a T1 (soon to be T3- the network's faster than the internet connection, well, obviously, but its way faster) so that I can update regularly. I am going to get 10.3.3 as soo as it comes out.


Caleb

(was there ever a 10.2.2? or 10.1.1? I just like that 1.1/2.2/3.3 sound! :D)

iHack
Feb 19, 2004, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Glial
Installed Win Server 2003 server today.

5 updates....not 355.

Can you post a link to your info?

I installed win 2K on a computer of a friend of mine. Of course, after installing the first thing I did was to update. I had to do it three times, because (just checking) there were that many updates of updates. What a kludge.

Of course, this could be incremental updates, not updates of updates per se. But still. Can't they combine these? Sheesh.

M.

PS. I do like win2K a lot btw. It looks spartan compared to OSX, but it just works for me, without fail. This is in case you restart your computer regularly - hardly any wintel user leaves his PC on/sleeping from day to day, but switches it off at the end of every work day. Does anyone know if W2K even has a BSOD?

daveL
Feb 19, 2004, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Glial
Installed Win Server 2003 server today.

5 updates....not 355.

Can you post a link to your info?
Lucky you. Like a sharp stick in the eye.

ugly_dog
Feb 19, 2004, 09:44 PM
Well 10.3.2 behaved iimmaculately for me until I downloaded Safari 1.2. has done a few strange things since then uncluding acqlite regusing to work because it needed java 1.4.1 to start up.

Even had a kernel panic the other day as well.

Swearing at it and telling it that the java was already installed didn't work but i cheated my way around that.

I guess thal the main thing I hope for from 10.3.3 is that it will fix the double icons that appear on my desktop after I have burnt a DVD or CD.

hulugu
Feb 19, 2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by iHack
PS. I do like win2K a lot btw. It looks spartan compared to OSX, but it just works for me, without fail. This is in case you restart your computer regularly - hardly any wintel user leaves his PC on/sleeping from day to day, but switches it off at the end of every work day. Does anyone know if W2K even has a BSOD?

Win2k is much better than either 98 or XP, but yes it does BSOD, I managed to make it ridiculously squirelly a few weeks ago when I tried to install scanner software. At first it would just hang, then boom big blue screen and restart.
And I have to say the 2k interface is ugly, even with some hacks it's still inelegant and I can't stand the task manager, now you hit ctrl-alt-delete and you get a screen, hit task manager, then let it redraw the screen, then close the program. It's gone from 1 obnoxious step in Win98 to five.
But, Win2k is better than 98 and better behaved than XP.


[edit for clarity, sorry about a really awful sentence]

Stolid
Feb 19, 2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by hulugu
I can't stand the task manager, now you hit ctrl-alt-delete and you get a screen, hit task manager, then let it redraw the screen, then close the program. It's gone from 1 obnoxious step in Win98 to five.
But, Win2k is better than 98 and better behaved than XP.

Try Ctrl-Shift-ESC; should work better for you

macnews
Feb 19, 2004, 11:30 PM
I am not complaining about the number of updates or even paying for a 10.x new version. What I hate is how some of Apple's own software requires you to upgrade your OS - or at least it will at this rate.

Example: You bought an imac in Oct 03 w/10.2 (they didn't ship with 10.3). Wanted ilife 04 so that makes you upgrade to at least 10.2.6. What happens when ilife 05 comes out? My guess is you will need at least some 10.3.x version. So now you have to upgrade your OS just to get a new version of ilife. Then you can run in to the endless loop of having to upgrade your printer software because it won't work with the latest version and on and on. But I guess that is how Apple amassed that 4.8Billion cash reserve.

coumerelli
Feb 19, 2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by macnews
I am not complaining about the number of updates or even paying for a 10.x new version. What I hate is how some of Apple's own software requires you to upgrade your OS - or at least it will at this rate.

Example: You bought an imac in Oct 03 w/10.2 (they didn't ship with 10.3). Wanted ilife 04 so that makes you upgrade to at least 10.2.6. What happens when ilife 05 comes out? My guess is you will need at least some 10.3.x version. So now you have to upgrade your OS just to get a new version of ilife. Then you can run in to the endless loop of having to upgrade your printer software because it won't work with the latest version and on and on. But I guess that is how Apple amassed that 4.8Billion cash reserve.

But the same is true for Adobe software, or Macromedia or anything else. I mean, I can't expect to run all the latest software on old systems. The problem that you (and for good reason) are seeing is that, 'well, it's not that old'. Well, technology is here, and it's moving fast. I suggest to either buckle down and upgrade your system (because it's obvious that upgrading your other software is important to you) or don't upgrade your software (because it's obvious that upgrading your system isn't very improtant to you). It's all or nothing sometimes. eh? Such is life.

hulugu
Feb 20, 2004, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by coumerelli
But the same is true for Adobe software, or Macromedia or anything else. I mean, I can't expect to run all the latest software on old systems. The problem that you (and for good reason) are seeing is that, 'well, it's not that old'. Well, technology is here, and it's moving fast. I suggest to either buckle down and upgrade your system (because it's obvious that upgrading your other software is important to you) or don't upgrade your software (because it's obvious that upgrading your system isn't very improtant to you). It's all or nothing sometimes. eh? Such is life.

You beat me to it Moore's Law, at least its popular definition, rears its ugly head. The software drives the hardware, always has. You want absolute performance with new software you need new hardware, however GB, for example, will work on slower G4 machines. Apple publishes minimum requirements to avoid fielding tech-help calls about why GB doesn't perform instantly on an old Blue & White. It will work, but not very well. The good thing at least, is Macs hold their value very well, so maybe it's time to sell.

displaced
Feb 20, 2004, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by Glial
Installed Win Server 2003 server today.

5 updates....not 355.

Can you post a link to your info?

It's from the 'Monitor Server' section of the Administration page of my company's Microsoft Software Update Services Server (SUS). Info about SUS is available here (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/sus/default.mspx)

SUS locally caches all available updates from MS Windows Update. I can then review and approve updates as necessary. Approved updates are automatically installed on domain clients on a daily basis. It also updates iits cache with new updates on a daily basis.

All told it's not a bad system, aside from the cost of having to maintain a representative sample of machines on which to test updates prior to approval , and a few other foibles. Though compared to the cost of rolling out a faulty update across 3 national sites, even that is worth it.

Note that the update cache includes all critical updates for all MS products on each platform, perhaps explaining the discrepancy. However, anyone who's also using SUS will confirm the figure.

billyboy
Feb 20, 2004, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by FatSweatyChimp
Right click My Computer // Properties // Automatic Updates.

Thanks for that.

Blazn5
Feb 20, 2004, 08:06 AM
Whould this update fix the Fast User Switching problem in Panther? I want to switch user names but i just crashed and displays the spinning whirl of death. This isnt a G5 problem either, my friend with a G4 is having the same problem when trying to use FUS. By the way I would really be interested in decreasing boot time in Panther.

wrldwzrd89
Feb 20, 2004, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by Blazn5
Whould this update fix the Fast User Switching problem in Panther? I want to switch user names but i just crashed and displays the spinning whirl of death. This isnt a G5 problem either, my friend with a G4 is having the same problem when trying to use FUS. By the way I would really be interested in decreasing boot time in Panther.

The bug might not actually be in FUS. It could be that one of the applications you're running when you attempt FUS doesn't play well with or isn't aware of it. If I knew what applications you were running at the time, I could confirm whether the problem is in an application rather than Mac OS X.

spencecb
Feb 20, 2004, 09:38 AM
The code to use in the console can be found if you search this forum, because that was where i got it from. And, it really does work...i was having to wait for the startup bar to go all the way across, but now it is just as snappy as 10.3...so, if you guys can find it on the site, i suggest doing it...or just wait until 10.3.3

wdlove
Feb 20, 2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by spencecb
The code to use in the console can be found if you search this forum, because that was where i got it from. And, it really does work...i was having to wait for the startup bar to go all the way across, but now it is just as snappy as 10.3...so, if you guys can find it on the site, i suggest doing it...or just wait until 10.3.3

I will be patient spencecb, it is always good to have positive information. I'm sure that it will be even better.

Off topic. I have a brother-in-law that graduated from Miami University, Oxford. I'm an alumni of Miami University, Middletown. Our families are both native buckeyes. I received my nursing degree from them. Where did you grow up?

sdf
Feb 20, 2004, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by macnews
I am not complaining about the number of updates or even paying for a 10.x new version. What I hate is how some of Apple's own software requires you to upgrade your OS - or at least it will at this rate.

Get used to it. Apple is a public company. It's job is to make profits. I really don't see how it would possibly be worth it to them to put tons of extra effort in to support older OSes for people who aren't upgrading.

As for printing software (mentioned elsewhere in your rant)... what type of printer do you have that it breaks every OS version and the manufacturer doesn't have new drivers ready? Maybe it's time to put the blame where it belongs, which is firmly on the shoulders of the lazy asses who can't update their drivers in a timely fashion.

stcanard
Feb 20, 2004, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by jouster
Mmmmm..

I especially liked the one that borked battery life...or the one that hosed people's ethernet.

However, I don't recall the one that upgraded support for rose tinted spectacles. You certainly seem to have gotten it, though.

:rolleyes:

Apple's upgrades are *far* from perfect.

Now you're trying to put words in my mouth ... where did I say perfect?

Bugs occur, that's a fact of software develpment and happens everywhere.

The point being: the MS performance decreases / feature removals are the purpose of the update (usually because of security concerns), not a fixable bug in the update.

fjleon
Feb 21, 2004, 10:21 AM
My only problem (other than Mail cannot disable HTML mail) is that Finder gets stuck using more than 70% cpu when doing some operations.

For example, i have unzipped a file on the desktop, then selected it, and pressing apple-delete to send it to the trash, sometimes that makes finder use that much cpu (i notice because the fan turns on and the powerbook gets hot)

lha72
Feb 21, 2004, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by wrldwzrd89
The bug might not actually be in FUS. It could be that one of the applications you're running when you attempt FUS doesn't play well with or isn't aware of it. If I knew what applications you were running at the time, I could confirm whether the problem is in an application rather than Mac OS X.


I get the same result when I attempt FUS on my G4 dual. Have had the problem throughout all the Panther updates. The only other software running in the background is Norton Internet Security. I called applecare and they told me to format the disk and reinstall everything. I'm not going to do that. Welcome any other suggestions.

wdlove
Feb 22, 2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by ugly_dog
Well 10.3.2 behaved iimmaculately for me until I downloaded Safari 1.2. has done a few strange things since then uncluding acqlite regusing to work because it needed java 1.4.1 to start up.

Even had a kernel panic the other day as well.

Swearing at it and telling it that the java was already installed didn't work but i cheated my way around that.

I guess that the main thing I hope for from 10.3.3 is that it will fix the double icons that appear on my desktop after I have burnt a DVD or CD.

No Kernel Panic after 3 weeks using 10.3.3. Using Safari 1.2, have learned to live with its inadequacies. My only big problem is that Mail doesn't work at all.

I haven't copied a CD in X yet. In Mac 9.1.1, had that annoying problem of double icons.