Indepth Look at Obama's Legality Issue

[Aranince]

Snopes and FactCheck aren’t lying when they say the 2007 birth certificate on Obama’s site is real. So are the thousands and thousands of birth certificates in Hawaii from people born in Korea, Australia, Germany and even Kenya like Barack Obama! They are all REAL and Authentic birth certificates, but that doesn’t mean they or Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

http://www.earthfrisk.com/blog/?p=135

[mactastic]

To paraphrase John Cole... it's amazing that conservatives think that the Clintons are bloodthirsty enough to have had Vince Foster killed, but to wussy to use this issue against Obama in the primary...

[Sky Blue]

Wow, people are still banging on about this. Pretty sad.

[bradl]

Wow, people are still banging on about this. Pretty sad.

Very sad indeed.

I'd love to see how people would react if Nicole Kidman ran for President.

BL.

[abijnk]

Aranince, this is really getting old...

[obeygiant]

http://www.earthfrisk.com/blog/?p=135

Aranince I admire your persistence. If Obama wasn't born in Hawaii, then were was he born? Kenya then flown to Hawaii as an infant?

Frankly I want Obama to be president, otherwise we'd have to deal with Biden.

Taking any bets on when this thread will be closed? Under three hours?

[mgguy]

Taking any bets on when this thread will be closed? Under three hours?
On what basis should it be closed? Just because it upsets forum participants? I've seen far worse alleged by liberal (anti-bush)posters without any hard evidence. I guess conservatives should keep their heads down out of fear of being censored or, worse, banned.

[Sky Blue]

On what basis should it be closed?

It's the same old garbage.

[abijnk]

On what basis should it be closed? Just because it upsets forum participants? I've seen far worse alleged by liberal (anti-bush)posters without any hard evidence. I guess conservatives should keep their heads down out of fear of being censored or, worse, banned.

Nope, its just that there are like 5 different threads on this subject started by Aranince and every one of them ends in disaster. There are never any fact based discussions. The topic is thrown out and never supported or discussed in a constructive manner. I like to think that its because the story has absolutely zero legitimate standings, but that could be just me.

Do people really think that in this day and age of politics where politicians dig up as much dirt as possible that something this huge would go unnoticed? The simple answer is "No."

[gilkisson]

It wouldn't be so bad, if only the "documentation" on the supporting websites were written at anything above a 5th grade level. I mean, please! I love a good argument, but... Try to use logic. If you can't do that, at least try to state your case clearly. If you can't do that, at least try, just a little, to make your paperwork legible.

If the site you reference makes a point, it is completely lost in the poor formatting, structure, and grammar. It just isn't worth the effort to pick the fly poop out of the pepperpot, so to speak.

[leekohler]

Oh christ! This has been shot down a million times! Can this please be closed?

[mgguy]

It's the same old garbage.

Are you saying this exact information has been posted before? Same could be said about same old anti-bush crap which has been spewed over and over again. I mean, he gets blamed for everything, as if he had full control over everyhing that happens. Like war in Iraq--forget that this was supported by almost all in congress.

[yg17]

McCain was born in Panama but you wingnuts don't seem to have a problem with that, do you?

[Aranince]

McCain was born in Panama but you wingnuts don't seem to have a problem with that, do you?

That is a legitimate birth. He was born on a Military base. All military installments are considered American soil.

[skunk]

I mean, he gets blamed for everything, as if he had full control over everyhing that happens. Like war in Iraq--forget that this was supported by almost all in congress.Like Blair, he obtained support for the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq by lying about the evidence.

[gilkisson]

Are you saying this exact information has been posted before? Same could be said about same old anti-bush crap which has been spewed over and over again. I mean, he gets blamed for everything, as if he had full control over everyhing that happens. Like war in Iraq--forget that this was supported by almost all in congress.

Logical fallacy: "Moving the goalposts". Subject is not Bush this time, not is the subject Iraq. Subject is proof of Obama's foreign birth.

[skunk]

That is a legitimate birth. He was born on a Military base. All military installments are considered American soil.Not all US bases are American soil. Simply saying it is so does not change the facts.

[gilkisson]

That is a legitimate birth. He was born on a Military base. All military installments are considered American soil.

True. He was, and it is. That's why McCain's place of birth was never a serious point of contention. It was asked, answered, then dropped.

[mgguy]

McCain was born in Panama but you wingnuts don't seem to have a problem with that, do you?

Many born in panama have dual citizenship at birth. My wife was born there and is a legal naturalized citizen who could run for prez ( god help us all if she did).

[.Andy]

http://www.earthfrisk.com/blog/?p=135
In depth? You appear to have just posted a link without any discussion at all.

[mgguy]

Logical fallacy: "Moving the goalposts". Subject is not Bush this time, not is the subject Iraq. Subject is proof of Obama's foreign birth.

Nope. The discussion shifted to the topic of post censoring and my comments were addressing that.

[Aranince]

In depth? You appear to have just posted a link without any discussion at all.

Indepth as in, they have more research other than "Obama doesn't have proof."

[gilkisson]

Nope. The discussion shifted to the topic of post censoring and my comments were addressing that.

Ah. Then forgive me. It isn't that you could not stick to the main point, it's just that you chose to change the subject. Gotcha.

Actually, the discussion didn't shift at all. There it is, glaring at you. Please provide proof that Obama is foreign born. You cannot, of course, as all evidence has been locked away by the great conspiracy of the day/hour/minute/second.

Right?

[gilkisson]

Indepth as in, they have more research other than "Obama doesn't have proof."

So, you are saying you can prove a negative?

[.Andy]

Indepth as in, they have more research other than "Obama doesn't have proof."
If you post a link with no discussion are we meant to think that you support the article and believe every single word written in it 100%? Are you against it? You agree with some of it but not all of it?

They don't have "research". For starters: You cannot ring a hospital and get access to someone's private records. It is a breach of privacy and is utterly illegal for a hospital to release this information. They will not even tell you if the person was there or was treated there. The article is full of it - plain and simple. Do you think I could ring up the hospitals out of the blue and get access to your medical records?

[synth3tik]

Oh christ! This has been shot down a million times! Can this please be closed?

+1.

There is only so many times you can run through something, come to the same conclusion and then try again for a different out come.

[Queso]

'tis nonsense, and has been discussed many times....

[Aranince]

There is going to be a press conference on Monday (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Mr-Obamas-Eligibility-Aired-Monday/story.aspx?guid={35E191D7-D7BD-4722-BAF1-E6C0CBC18EA3})

[Queso]

There is going to be a press conference on Monday (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Mr-Obamas-Eligibility-Aired-Monday/story.aspx?guid={35E191D7-D7BD-4722-BAF1-E6C0CBC18EA3})
Oh FFS. He's not even taken office and the Republican witch-hunt has begun :rolleyes:

When does Kenneth Starr get appointed?

[gilkisson]

There is going to be a press conference on Monday (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Mr-Obamas-Eligibility-Aired-Monday/story.aspx?guid={35E191D7-D7BD-4722-BAF1-E6C0CBC18EA3})

Whoopdy-friggin-do. David Duke and the entire Ku Klux Klan Brass Band could announce a press conference. If any reporters show up, great. It means nothing.

[rdowns]

Google the names of these "licensed attorneys" just for shites and giggles.

[Aranince]

I love how you guys have a complete disregard for the Constitution.

[gilkisson]

+1.

There is only so many times you can run through something, come to the same conclusion and then try again for a different out come.

++1

Albert Einstein: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[leekohler]

There is going to be a press conference on Monday (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Mr-Obamas-Eligibility-Aired-Monday/story.aspx?guid={35E191D7-D7BD-4722-BAF1-E6C0CBC18EA3})

Wow! You guys will stop at nothing! As usual, when you can't win honestly, you have to cheat instead. I remember this with Clinton. It didn't work then either. It wasted our nation's time and money instead, and we don't have it to waste right now. Knock it off and get some better policies! Maybe you'll win next time!

I love how you guys have a complete disregard for the Constitution.

This has been debunked a million times already!

[gilkisson]

I love how you guys have a complete disregard for the Constitution.

Prove that, or be quiet. How dare you question the knowledge and honor of anyone else, simply because they disagree with you!

[Aranince]

Wow! You guys will stop at nothing! As usual, when you can't win honestly, you have to cheat instead. I remember this with Clinton. It didn't work then either. It wasted our nation's time and money instead, and we don't have it to waste right now. Knock it off and get some better policies! Maybe you'll win next time!

Why should we give up? Let all the liberal democrats take over the US and make it go down the drain? The point here is abiding by the Constitution. Obama just happens to be in the way of fire.

[NT1440]

So OP, are you saying there is some sort of massive government conspiracy going on here?

NO ONE could have gotten to the white house with something like this that disqualifies them from the presidency. So you think that all of the government has either turned a blind eye, or has somehow been tricked when it is assured that the most extreme of backround searches has been performed on everyone that ran for president.

[redwarrior]

Ok, I have just skimmed this thread, and not read any of the other supposed 5 about it, so I am ignorant. Has Obama produced proof of his birth place? If so, then there is no need for discussion, right? Apparently there is a question or there wouldn't be such contention here. Why wouldn't everyone want to know? This seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Queso]

Why should we give up? Let all the liberal democrats take over the US and make it go down the drain? The point here is abiding by the Constitution. Obama just happens to be in the way of fire.
Have you been asleep the past eight years? The Neocons already flushed the US, and most of the Western world with it.

[NT1440]

Ok, I have just skimmed this thread, and not read any of the other supposed 5 about it, so I am ignorant. Has Obama produced proof of his birth place? If so, then there is no need for discussion, right? Apparently there is a question or there wouldn't be such contention here. Why wouldn't everyone want to know? This seems like a no-brainer to me.

Well, you got that right.

Anyone that believes the man who will be our president somehow at this point hasn't met the most basic of requirements to be president, is lacking in the brain department.

[leekohler]

Why should we give up? Let all the liberal democrats take over the US and make it go down the drain? The point here is abiding by the Constitution. Obama just happens to be in the way of fire.

No- the point is you guys refusing to listen to the facts that have already been presented a thousand times. Again, it's just like when Clinton got elected. You have to go on your witch hunts instead of accepting that fact that YOU LOST.

Ok, I have just skimmed this thread, and not read any of the other supposed 5 about it, so I am ignorant. Has Obama produced proof of his birth place? If so, then there is no need for discussion, right? Apparently there is a question or there wouldn't be such contention here. Why wouldn't everyone want to know? This seems like a no-brainer to me.

One sec. Here you go:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=590012&highlight=obama+birth

Oh gee, look who started this thread.

[abijnk]

Ok, I have just skimmed this thread, and not read any of the other supposed 5 about it, so I am ignorant. Has Obama produced proof of his birth place? If so, then there is no need for discussion, right? Apparently there is a question or there wouldn't be such contention here. Why wouldn't everyone want to know? This seems like a no-brainer to me.

I suggest reading the other 5 to catch up... This has been going on since the primaries and has been debunked NUMEROUS times. Obama HAS produced proof. People have gone and touched it and felt it and it STILL isn't enough for these people. Everyone DID want to know, but now most of us DO know. A certain select few (with really tell-tale patterns) keep hammering away at it because they want to be right. Plain and simple.

[gilkisson]

Why should we give up? Let all the liberal democrats take over the US and make it go down the drain? The point here is abiding by the Constitution. Obama just happens to be in the way of fire.

And again I say, "prove that". Provide proof. Establish your case. Present evidence. Show cause. Anything.

If you must, take comfort in the words of Justice Joseph Story, that "four years is not long enough to risk any harm to the public safety."

Support the nation of which you are so proud. Support the Constitution, which you and I both consider to be as good as holy writ.

Or, continue to rant and rave and repeat yourself. And preach sedition.

[ucfgrad93]

To paraphrase John Cole... it's amazing that conservatives think that the Clintons are bloodthirsty enough to have had Vince Foster killed, but to wussy to use this issue against Obama in the primary...

Agreed. If this is true, surely Hillary would have used it in the primaries against Obama.

[gilkisson]

Agreed. If this is true, surely Hillary would have used it in the primaries against Obama.

No, that's part of the big conspiracy, see? Yeah, that's it, she's in on it, see? They've been planning this since Bill's first term. Hell, since Jimmy Carter's term... that's why he gave back the Panama Canal, because he knew McCain was born there and... ... ... Oh god, this makes my head hurt.

[mactastic]

On what basis should it be closed? Just because it upsets forum participants? I've seen far worse alleged by liberal (anti-bush)posters without any hard evidence. I guess conservatives should keep their heads down out of fear of being censored or, worse, banned.
Censorship involves the government. Arn, or his representatives, do not owe you the same free speech rights that you have in the public sphere.

Why should we give up? Let all the liberal democrats take over the US and make it go down the drain? The point here is abiding by the Constitution. Obama just happens to be in the way of fire.
Ah yes... this must be the enlightened conservative point of view fivepoint was referring too...

[gilkisson]

Why should we give up? Let all the liberal democrats take over the US and make it go down the drain? The point here is abiding by the Constitution. Obama just happens to be in the way of fire.

By the way, your line there at the end? About being in the line of fire? Yeah, you might want to check your Constitution, and contact a lawyer. The Secret Service just might come a-knockin' on your door real soon. You have uttered a threat against the President(elect), and that, my friend, is a crime.

[leekohler]

Originally Posted by mgguy View Post
On what basis should it be closed? Just because it upsets forum participants? I've seen far worse alleged by liberal (anti-bush)posters without any hard evidence. I guess conservatives should keep their heads down out of fear of being censored or, worse, banned.

Take the persecution complex somewhere else. I've been put in time out before.

It's about posting the same worthless subject over and over again with out even a hint of proof. It's a waste of time and space for the site.

[Aranince]

By the way, your line there at the end? About being in the line of fire? Yeah, you might want to check your Constitution, and contact a lawyer. The Secret Service just might come a-knockin' on your door real soon. You have uttered a threat against the President(elect), and that, my friend, is a crime.

Okay...he is not the president until Jan 20th. There is no such thing as the "Office if the President Elect"

[gilkisson]

Okay...he is not the president until Jan 20th. There is no such thing as the "Office if the President Elect"

Good luck with that. Gee, I wonder why the Secret Service takes the job of protecting him so seriously... very seriously.

Say hi to your new roomies in Marion Ill, k?

[mactastic]

Okay...he is not the president until Jan 20th. There is no such thing as the "Office if the President Elect"
Hmm... then how can the be an "Obama recession" (http://mediamatters.org/items/200811120011) yet?

[gilkisson]

Okay...he is not the president until Jan 20th. There is no such thing as the "Office if the President Elect"

Here, let me help you:

http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/protection.shtml:

Today, the Secret Service is authorized by law to protect:

* The president, the vice president, (or other individuals next in order of succession to the Office of the President), the president-elect and vice president-elect
* The immediate families of the above individuals
* Former presidents and their spouses for their lifetimes, except when the spouse remarries. In 1997, Congressional legislation became effective limiting Secret Service protection to former presidents for a period of not more than 10 years from the date the former president leaves office
* Children of former presidents until age 16
* Visiting heads of foreign states or governments and their spouses traveling with them, other distinguished foreign visitors to the United States, and official representatives of the United States performing special missions abroad
* Major presidential and vice presidential candidates, and their spouses within 120 days of a general presidential election
* Other individuals as designated per Executive Order of the President
* National Special Security Events, when designated as such by the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security

So, again, best of luck to you.

[rdowns]

Wow, I thought this would have ended up in the Wasteland long ago.

[gilkisson]

Wow, I thought this would have ended up in the Wasteland long ago.

Shhh... I'm having fun. I'm hunting wabbits..... heheh heheh heheh heheh...

[Queso]

Hmm... then how can the be an "Obama recession" (http://mediamatters.org/items/200811120011) yet?
That's just hilarious. So let's get this straight. It's all Obama's fault, except for the bits caused by Clinton :D

[it5five]

Nope. The discussion shifted to the topic of post censoring and my comments were addressing that.

No, you attempted to shift the topic to censorship, and when called out on it, you bring out your persecution complex.

[rdowns]

That's just hilarious. So let's get this straight. It's all Obama's fault, except for the bits caused by Clinton :D

And there you have the Conservative Manifesto aka The Declaration of Limbaugh aka The Hannity Proclamation.

[Blue Velvet]

Just as a closing note, I was not the moderator who initially closed this thread, in case anyone thinks the word 'Blue' in my user-name has another more politically-biased meaning. ;)

I guess conservatives should keep their heads down out of fear of being censored or, worse, banned.

No-one gets banned or their posts deleted for following the forum rules. 'Censoring' as you put it, tends to happen in here when posts start attacking other forum members — including the mods — in threads that aren't about this forum.

So for instance, we've had meta-threads in here before like:

Why is this forum so liberal? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=575774)
why does macrumors lean liberal? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=102756)

My perception is this from years of reading this forum and also modding: that many, but not all, conservatives who post here are accustomed to a different style of dialogue than the forum rules in here permit. I say dialogue because we occasionally see no attempt at a reality-based debate from some conservative members. Many assumptions are taken as axiomatic and talking points are often relayed without support when threads are started... over the years, we've banned conservative members who have strayed across the line with continuing racist, xenophobic and homophobic attacks.

There is such a thing as hate speech on this forum. Your first amendment rights hold no sway here

I don't often like singling people out, but desertrat for instance, posts from a conservative viewpoint particularly on economics, but his posts are never deleted and he's never had any trouble... and that's because he participates and responds to others in debate.


Why should we give up? Let all the liberal democrats take over the US and make it go down the drain? The point here is abiding by the Constitution. Obama just happens to be in the way of fire.

Elections have consequences. Get used to the idea of the Republican Party being largely irrelevant for a while.

On a final note about this topic, I'll leave the final word to Marc Ambinder, Chief Political Consultant at CBS, who is a rigorous source:

Since I baldly asserted that Barack Obama was provably a citizen and provably eligible to be president, several readers have written to ask me how I know this to be true.

Well, his birth certificate is valid, for one thing; it's survived scrutiny and has been sanctioned as valid by the legal authority empowered to sanction such things. A conspiracy to cover this up is -- would be -- preposterous.
A thinner version of the claim holds that Obama is a citizen, but not a natural born or naturalized citizen and this constitutionally ineligible. This claim rests on a fairly tendentious argument about Obama's father and mother. Obama Sr., wasn't a citizen; therefore, his son could not have been born to two U.S. citizens; to be a naturalized citizen, both parents have to be U.S. citizens. Also: the law requires citizen-parents to have spent a certain length of time in the state; Obama's mother was a woman of the world.

But the two-citizen parent rule, which is no longer in effect, applied to people born outside the U.S. Obama was born in 1961 in Hawaii, a U.S. state since 1959; (had he been born earlier, it wouldn't matter -- U.S. law granted natural born citizenship to every Hawaiian born after 1900.)
Now -- the 14th amendment is fairly clear on the subject:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

A further objection: to be "natural born," as the constitution requires, is to be born on U.S. soil (check) to two citizen parents (x mark.) Again -- that claim has no basis in federal law, Supreme Court precedent, or English common law.

The conspiracy theories are entertaining, and in a down economy, they keep people employed, so I suppose one cannot entirely dismiss their social utility

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/12/_citizen_yes_but_not.php

Any further threads on this topic solely supported by links to fringe wingnut bloggery, instead of reputable media sources, will be closed down.