More Vendors Downsizing or Withdrawing from Macworld SF 2009

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/04/more-vendors-downsizing-or-withdrawing-from-macworld-sf-2009/)

AppleInsider claims (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/12/04/more_big_names_downsizing_pulling_out_of_macworld_expo.html) that following Adobe's withdrawl from exhibiting at Macworld San Francisco, both Belkin and Seagate will also not be exhibiting. Belkin historically has been one of Macworld's biggest exhibitors. The move is deemed especially surprising for Belkin, which has not only been one of Macworld Expo's largest exhibitors in the past but is believed to have already paid for its booth space this year, people aware of the situation say.Meanwhile, Google is said to be downsizing their booth size as well as a couple of other unnamed vendors.

While the worsening economy is cited as the likely reason, much of the cost for the spaces have reportedly already been collected. Regardless, as a result, they expect Macworld 2009 to be a smaller show than last year. MacRumors, of course, will be present to provide coverage of the show. Apple is expected to introduce new products at the event which kicks off on January 5th, 2009.

Article Link: More Vendors Downsizing or Withdrawing from Macworld SF 2009 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/04/more-vendors-downsizing-or-withdrawing-from-macworld-sf-2009/)

[Mr. Giver '94]

Too bad...

I guess either Apple will have to put on a great show and showing, or it will kind of flop over and not be all that big of a deal. The current rumors floating around don't sound like any huge announcements will be made as far as I'm aware. Maybe spec boosted iMac. It would be cool if they announced the new Mac Pros, but I think the entire redesigning/revamping of the Mac Mini line would make it a great show. I'm not in the market, but it is a great product and in my opinion shouldn't be cast aside. I'd also love the rest of the new Cinema Display line to be announced, assuming there is more to the line.

[pismodude2]

Hard Economix all around...

[jaw04005]

Apparently, trade shows are notoriously expensive because it's a closed market system (specific suppliers, contractors, unions, etc).

Take a look at this old blog post from 2005 by Paul at Rogue Amoeba. He noted that to rent a wastebasket was $19.50 per day with a $38 a day charge to empty it!

Macworld Editor Jason Snell even commented that a plate of cookies is $100.

I know Alex Lindsay (of Pixel Corps and MacBreak Weekly) has mentioned several times that you can't even set up your own table or chair because of the union contracts.

Others have said that you can't carry in your own boxes of materials.

http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/posts/Article/Airport-Economics-2005-12-15-18-00.html

[Roller]

I think that we'll see this trend continue. It's very expensive for vendors to buy space, set up booths, and send people to trade shows. Also, the Web makes it much easier for companies to get the word about new products out than it was in the old days.

From Apple's perspective, it might make sense to get away from the high expectations generated every January. That would also make it easier for Steve Jobs to stop doing keynotes as Apple prepares for succession to a CEO with less showmanship.

[Mazda 3s]

Meh, they'll probably all be at CES which is a much bigger show anyway.

[sjinsjca]

SF is a nightmare place to participate in a trade show. Everything from taxicabs to parking to hotels is outrageously expensive. Then you begin dealing with the highway robbers who run Moscone Center, and you soon realize your booth fees constitute a tiny fraction of the overall investment in having trade show presence. The unions are beyond larcenous. Even the smallest booth costs about $150 to have vacuumed, a ten-minute job! I once had a guy with a broom stop for a moment in front of my booth as he swept up after a show. He paused and grinned, "I make $100 an hour! God bless America!"

And a floor-sweeper made that kind of money because fools like me were willing to pay it.

Like printed catalogs, trade shows are rapidly becoming obsolete and even silly. As a promotional tool, they reach very few customers, so why bother? An exception would be technical society meetings or other specialized-market conferences where practically the whole global customer base can fit onto the show floor and attendance becomes a major perk for the customer. Shows like that are staged in destination cities like Frisco. It makes far less sense for companies like Belkin to do something of the sort in a broadly horizontal market with millions of customers. Hats off to Belkin for their common sense and the courage to act on it.

[themoonisdown09]

Will Apple even be at Macworld this year? I can't believe that all these companies are dropping out.

[!¡ V ¡!]

Just conduct the show online, its would be cheaper for Apple and Company. Trade Shows are history and this downturn will only garner more reasoning.

Will Apple even be at Macworld this year? I can't believe that all these companies are dropping out.

Been to quite a few trade shows back in the late 90's, don't see what the fuss is all about. The keynote should be available online and hopefully in real-time in the near future.

[macfan881]

Too bad...

I guess either Apple will have to put on a great show and showing, or it will kind of flop over and not be all that big of a deal. The current rumors floating around don't sound like any huge announcements will be made as far as I'm aware. Maybe spec boosted iMac. It would be cool if they announced the new Mac Pros, but I think the entire redesigning/revamping of the Mac Mini line would make it a great show. I'm not in the market, but it is a great product and in my opinion shouldn't be cast aside. I'd also love the rest of the new Cinema Display line to be announced, assuming there is more to the line.

hey its a weird concept mac computers at macworld what a concept :rolleyes:
cant wait for new imacs :)

[M!K]

Ok so new products... I'm still hoping for my dream, a MacBook touch! But for some reson I feel like it won't be this year. I would also love to see an Apple TV that can record TV. It would be more than awesome! I would finally buy one! And last product I've always hope for is an Apple Television, like the screen. With the Apple interface, it would be more than gorgeous!!

Anyways, I can't wait to see what's next (new products). If there isn't any new products, I'm gonna buy the new MacBook for school cause my MacBook Pro is way to heavy for school. But I want a MacBook touch so badddd!!

[FilipH]

Apart from new specs for the Imacs, is there anything else that they might launch?

[rockosmodurnlif]

Will Apple even be at Macworld this year? I can't believe that all these companies are dropping out.
Will Macworld be at Macworld this year?

[thomahawk]

i hope this reccession ends soon. i have seen too many companys going now lately..

[Srai-W]

Online is the way to go. If the prices quoted above are serious then it seems absolutely amazing they would continue. I guess :apple: can afford it though with that much money in the bank.

Hmmm.... wondering if Psystar will have a booth then??? :eek:

[SFStateStudent]

i hope this reccession ends soon. i have seen too many companys going now lately..

It took them so long to call it a recession, I wouldn't be surprised if it ended just before MWSF '09...:eek: (Bought my tickets already, I guess there'll be more leg room as I sit watching the MS Office Demos?)

[Bob Knob]

I exhibit at NAB (Vegas) every year and the "space" is the cheapest part. Union bull and insane prices for even the most basic stuff is what makes us seriously consider not going back every year... but we go back... and we hate it again. We really don't get any new business out of it, it is more the attitude that if we aren't there some of our clients will see this as the company being in financial trouble. It's obvious that the era of the tradeshow is finally dying, THANK GOD!

[minik]

That's not good at all as MWSF is the biggest Mac gathering in the calendar year. I went to MWSF 2008 and even saw Steve Jobs keynote on the spot. However, I pretty much used up my vacation days to Europe during the Summer of '08. Now, it's unlikely for me to show support to MWSF 2009.

MWSF09 and CES 2009 have a bit overlap as well.

[Eidorian]

Please try to put something out worth buying at a keynote Apple...

[ivladster]

Well, this year will be small. But Apple still has millions in the bank and no debt. I think Apple can survive anything now, after 1997.

[ivladster]

Apart from new specs for the Imacs, is there anything else that they might launch?

That's when Apple launches new products, when no one is expecting anything. We too don't have any rumors. =(

[twoodcc]

wow, this is not good at all. i still can't wait for macworld though

[JGowan]

It's ironic. This economic cluster-duck has been great for my business. I design and update mall directories. With great store turnover, directories have to be updated more frequently which is some nice coin for me. Business has never been better.

Again I say: ironic.

[ob81]

the same people show up to these events anyway. Why pay to reach an audience that you already have? I don't know who has a regular booth at mac world, and I don't care. Maybe vendors started realizing this. Ticket sales have been garbage. My guess is that apple told people this and they decided to not follow through.

No rumors? A first to be honest. There is always some sort of rumor, especially this close. Maybe apple played their cards too early, and don't have anything to release.

[Wie Gehts]

How much ancillary product vendors can there be for a company thats basically become a glorified cell phone manufacturer?

[macthetiger85]

Hey maybe we'll get iWork 09 and iLife 09, a new Mac Mini with display port and imacs with display port. That would leave MacPro for display port - introduce new netbook (Steve said they had great ideas if they were going there) a better TV (replace the other pieces under my tv, dont add one - or just make TV a TV that does everything TV does - and more) and finally 8GB iPhone for 99 exclusively at walmart, 16GB for 199 and 32GB for 299.

Plenty of stuff that coud be announced - anything revolutionary? well jeez, they've revolutionized so much, they can't do it everytime - but if they have colored sox for the MacBook AirI'm so buying them - and I don't even have a MacBookAir.

[alexbates]

How much ancillary product vendors can there be for a company thats basically become a glorified cell phone manufacturer?

I think that Apple is the only one. But they have done a great job with it so far. I never expeced for the iPhone to get this many sales.

[Stebus]

I don't think this recession is going to be as easy to get out of as the government would like to claim. The trillions spent on the bailouts has to be paid back you know, the fed doesn't just give out free money. Therefore even if the US economy does start to pick up, it's only a matter of time before the system collapses in on itself from the never-ending debt.

That being said, I want to see something from Apple that's bold and revolutionary. Not quite sure what but they are one of the only company's with the balls to do that.

[zacman]

) a better TV

It won't be updated for a long time IMHO. Jobs recently called it "only a hobby" and doesn't expect a breakthrough for online movies in 2009.

Apple will probably announce Bluray support though.

[748s]

These shows are a thing of the past.
Even Apple are moving away from the 'trade show'.

[TraceyS/FL]

I exhibit at NAB (Vegas) every year and the "space" is the cheapest part. Union bull and insane prices for even the most basic stuff is what makes us seriously consider not going back every year... but we go back... and we hate it again. We really don't get any new business out of it, it is more the attitude that if we aren't there some of our clients will see this as the company being in financial trouble. It's obvious that the era of the tradeshow is finally dying, THANK GOD!

I can't imagine doing a trade show in all that mess. I worked at one here in Orlando and the vendor was able to do their own thing setting up and tearing down. The Crew for the 80% of the vendors did the rest.

I'm not a union fan at all - and if the guy sweeping the floor makes $100/hr..... dang, i should have been having DH commute 5 hours up the coast when we lived out there.

ON the MW Pullouts, i'm sad - but it does indicate to me the lack of "punch" that MW has had on the COMPUTER side of things. I know that the rest of us have wanted computer stuff - not iPod, not iPhone. That focus apparently isn't going to come back with Adobe and Belkin pulling out :(

[137489]

Yep, this economy is really hitting hard. About the only good thing about a recession, is for those that still have jobs. with lower gas prices and retailers having to drop prices to make sales - it is easier to pay down dept and get good buys on stuff. Of course Medical Costs and Food continues to sky-rocket.

Trade shows are rediculously expensive. I remember when Microsoft came to town back in 2000, when I was working in Charlotte. Even though we did not use the technology, the Hospital System I was working for paid $100+ per the 4 of us to go and listen to the spiel on the new .NET they were coming out with.

As far as Trade shows getting smaller? I even heard this years auto-show is going to be blah. Ford, GM, and Chrysler may not have any new concept cars to show.

I do think this recession is going to be long lasting. We have been in it for over a year, every day there is more news of downturns and job loses, plus all the mney the govenment is trying to pump into the economy will have to be paid back to china (that is who we are borrowing the money from). No wonder their economy if booming. We borrow money from them, that has to be paid back with interest, to buy their products. :rolleyes:

I had a feeling with no rumors, that this years macworld may be blah. So much for hoping for some wishful products.....

[motulist]

anything revolutionary? well jeez, they've revolutionized so much, they can't do it everytime

Actually, they seem to be able to do it less and less. The ipod was revolutionary, and Apple was still able to crank out top notch Macs. But since Apple started working on the iPhone, for many years now nothing about Apple's computers have been majorly improved, let alone revolutionized. (wow, they changed how they built the metal part of their laptop cases. truly amazing improvement for the end user. *sarcasm*) In fact in many major ways Apple's current computers are worse today than they were in the past, with fewer ports (firewire removed and no other port put in its place) and fewer options (glossy or matte option is gone completely).

Apple has put all of its energy into the ipod and iphone over the past years, and let its computers begin to rot. I sincerely hope that Apple DOESN'T put out any revolutionary new products over the next few years, because they clearly are unable to keep up well with the product lines they already have.

Apple needs to stop adding new products to its line up, and start focusing on improving the quality of the product lines they already sell.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Apparently, trade shows are notoriously expensive because it's a closed market system (specific suppliers, contractors, unions, etc).

Take a look at this old blog post from 2005 by Paul at Rogue Amoeba. He noted that to rent a wastebasket was $19.50 per day with a $38 a day charge to empty it!

Macworld Editor Jason Snell even commented that a plate of cookies is $100.

I know Alex Lindsay (of Pixel Corps and MacBreak Weekly) has mentioned several times that you can't even set up your own table or chair because of the union contracts.

Others have said that you can't carry in your own boxes of materials.

http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/posts/Article/Airport-Economics-2005-12-15-18-00.html

Yeah, union contracts can be to blame in part... but also the need for profit from the folks that run the Moscone Center.... if Mac World is anything like FOSE and other shows that companies I have worked with are an indication - shows like this are grab fests of folks looking for freebies of any sort and leads to few actual sales...

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5G77 Safari/525.20)

This is crazy but I guess it is evidence of the current economic times that we are in.

[mac jones]

It's ironic. This economic cluster-duck has been great for my business. I design and update mall directories. With great store turnover, directories have to be updated more frequently which is some nice coin for me. Business has never been better.

Again I say: ironic.

Yes its a bonanza for psychiatrists , bankruptcy lawyers, repo men.

Just not the trade show bloodsuckers I guess

[137489]

Actually, they seem to be able to do it less and less. The ipod was revolutionary, and Apple was still able to crank out top notch Macs. But since Apple started working on the iPhone, for many years now nothing about Apple's computers have been majorly improved, let alone revolutionized. (wow, they changed how they built the metal part of their laptop cases. truly amazing improvement for the end user. *sarcasm*) In fact in many major ways Apple's current computers are worse today than they were in the past, with fewer ports (firewire removed and no other port put in its place) and fewer options (glossy or matte option is gone completely).

Apple has put all of its energy into the ipod and iphone over the past years, and let its computers begin to rot. I sincerely hope that Apple DOESN'T put out any revolutionary new products over the next few years, because they clearly are unable to keep up well with the product lines they already have.

Apple needs to stop adding new products to its line up, and start focusing on improving the quality of the product lines they already sell.

I remember something someone said to me back in the early to mid-1990's. I do not know where he got his information from, but basically he said:

"Oh about the year 2000 or so, things will start to slow down with computers, as there really will be nothing new they can do"

what I think he was referring to was the fact from 1980 through that time, every new computer could do more and more. Now, seriously, other than touch technology (and some improvments could be made on voice), what else is there for the average consumer or even some businesses? I think that is why most companies are focusing on mobile handhelds, or specific niche items. They day of the desktop is going by the wayside. One day (although far in the future) laptops probably will too. I mean how many companies are scaling back their I/T dept and out-souring or getting in contractors. Or like me, working remotely from home. I worked for a few companies still using Pentium 2 or 3 systems and office 97. the newer stuff was maybe a couple of servers to house all the applications that ran through a browser.

I been to a few local shows (mostly smaller companies or stores) that decided to get together. It has been blah. Back in the 1990's, I used to go to computer shows all the time (when I used PC's mostly and built my own). there were some big companies and a lot of local vendors (used to fill entire fair grounds and you had to go 2 days to see it all [thus why they stamped your ticket to come back the next day for only $2]). I could get new or not that old (ie 6 months to a year) top-of-the-line equipment at a good price.

Now? the last few computer shows I went to (before switching my entire platform to Apple) were nothing more than flea markets. Boxes full of software that was 3 or more years old (I only bought a couple, because they were specialty things - or I was working for a company still using the older technology and I needed my own copy), used books on 4-6 year old technology. I was looking for a laptop. Most were abused (notice I did not say used). Missing Keys, broken latches, not boot up, with signs saying you are buying "as is". Most of the vendors said "if you are looking for something decent, here is a flyer with our phone number (yeah, a small retailer in Nevada or Michigan.. Like someone in North Carolina wants to buy from a no-name retailer 1/2 way cross the country, and for a system they put together that did not even bear the store's logo).


What worries me, is with trade shows being so expensive, usually held when people can't go (ie normal weekday instead of a weekend event), and less companies wanting to flip the bill to send their employees - the only shows will be on the internet. Problem I see with that? How can I get sense of the product without seeing it, touching it, playing with it. Pictures and doctored up videos do not give a true picture. Before switching to apple, I used to go to the Apple store and play with them (for about 6 months). then when I had the money, I knew exactly what I wanted. Too many times I bought something on the internet, and then when it came - it was not what I expected.

That is what worries me about no more local trade shows, closing stores (or stores moving to online only), etc.

So when you say Apple is focusing too much on the iphone and not enough on mac;s. To one point I agree, but other than Dell (who atleast tries to make their systems look good and new) I really see much of the same from other companies. Not much in the line of computers really excites me anymore. Now, it is just - ok, what system and software will meet what I need to do. At one time I wanted the latest and greatest (because it was better), now well... It seems that no matter what I buy (PC or Apple) new or a year or two old, still pretty much performes the same - maybe a little faster.

Last couple of years - computers on all fronts have missed the WOW factor. Only Apple has come out with some things that make me go hmmm....

[happydude]

i blame george bush.

hopefully the announcements from apple will outshine the lower/reduced vendor attendance. common new mini!!!

[Digitalclips]

Just conduct the show online, its would be cheaper for Apple and Company. Trade Shows are history and this downturn will only garner more reasoning.

I was thinking the same thing. For years I both visited and worked on vendors stands (including Adobe). Flying half way around the World from UK to do so. The costs were enormous, flights, hotels, meals on top of the outrages fees for everything at the shows. Getting a 19" Sony Trinitron there was a fortune and yes, as others have said, the waste baskets, extra small table, cloth for said table etc. were pure robbery!

However, back then there was no other way to reach so many potential clients. Today we have the internet with all its facets for exhibiting products. These trade shows are really a left over from another era. Nostalgic as I am for the atmosphere of the Mac World shows, both San Francisco and Boston, they really are no longer necessary. The economic downturn may be the final straw, I suspect we may be seeing the last of them some time soon.

In a related way, I have cancelled my Mac magazines this year too. Not because I don't enjoy them but because they are already several months out of date by the time I get them. It is the same thing, time to move on and let the old ways go. Reading the Mac World Web Site version it should be right up to date and won't have "December Issue" on the front page in October!

[fleshman03]

I have a funny feeling that we are in for a, "Apple is telling venders not to skip MWSF this year because of big product announcements."


Just a feeling. Now that I've said it, it won't happen.

[Penguinwrangler]

I even heard this years auto-show is going to be blah. Ford, GM, and Chrysler may not have any new concept cars to show.


Word in my industry is that they will be drastically smaller shows with little to no production value when compared with previous year's efforts. A lot of lighting guys who live almost completely off of auto shows are updating their resumes as we speak.

[Shasterball]

Will Apple even be at Macworld this year? I can't believe that all these companies are dropping out.

LOL. I hear they are scaling back too and may only be there for a day. :D

[andrew269]

i'm surprised that so many here are willing to believe that a janitor makes $100 an hour based on one supposed informal comment. what blue collar worker in this country make $100 an hour? and why aren't more people falling all over themselves to do those jobs? :rolleyes: even the most inflammatory estimates for autoworkers fall around $70 per hour, and that includes far more than their hourly wage, which itself computes to somewhere between $50-60,000/yr. moreover, i'm sure you're all aware that unions have no control over prices set by employers. whoever is employing that floor sweeper is taking home a nice chunk of change for the services he provides. on the other hand, if someone can produce a pay stub for that gentleman i will happily eat me words.

more to the point, i imagine the recession will begin to impact these niche markets more and more as time goes on. i'm curious to see how apple's holiday sales will compare with previous years.

[guzhogi]

SF is a nightmare place to participate in a trade show. Everything from taxicabs to parking to hotels is outrageously expensive. Then you begin dealing with the highway robbers who run Moscone Center, and you soon realize your booth fees constitute a tiny fraction of the overall investment in having trade show presence. The unions are beyond larcenous. Even the smallest booth costs about $150 to have vacuumed, a ten-minute job! I once had a guy with a broom stop for a moment in front of my booth as he swept up after a show. He paused and grinned, "I make $100 an hour! God bless America!"

And a floor-sweeper made that kind of money because fools like me were willing to pay it.

I know, some of these prices are pretty ridiculous. But on the other hand, think of it this way: it might take him 10 minutes to vacuum YOUR booth, but your one out of how many booths he has to vacuum? If he was charging $100/booth, that's outrageous.

Also, it might be an easy enough job to do, but would you really want to do it for 8 hours a day (saying that that is your only job)? Not many people would say that they'd want to vacuum floors, clean toilets, & other custodial work 8 hrs/day everyday. Plus, if every custodian quit, do you know how awful life would be? So they should be paid a good amount to do stuff no one else wants.

Okay, I'll admit, during the summers off from college, I worked for my high school's buildings & grounds department. Lots of lawn mowing, moving desks & painting rooms. $8.21/hr, 40 hours/week. Now that I'm out of college, I'm a union man too (computer techie at an elementary school). So I know how much (tedious) work these guys have to do. But on the other hand, I also see how other unions basically steal from the companies they work for in the trade shows.

Hey maybe we'll get iWork 09 and iLife 09, a new Mac Mini with display port and imacs with display port. That would leave MacPro for display port - introduce new netbook (Steve said they had great ideas if they were going there) a better TV (replace the other pieces under my tv, dont add one - or just make TV a TV that does everything TV does - and more) and finally 8GB iPhone for 99 exclusively at walmart, 16GB for 199 and 32GB for 299.

Let's just hope the keynote's not going to be 115 minutes of glorifying the iPhone even more and 5 minutes for Macs/Mac OS X. Especially if those 5 minutes are used to say "You know what, the iPod & iPhone are doing so well, we're shutting down our computer devision and focus on only the iPod & iPhone. Our computers had a good run." I know, scary, isn't it?

[Krafty]

Not many people would say that they'd want to vacuum floors, clean toilets, & other custodial work 8 hrs/day everyday.Hell, I would.

[tlbwriter]

The move is deemed especially surprising for Belkin, which has not only been one of Macworld Expo's largest exhibitors in the past but is believed to have already paid for its booth space this year, people aware of the situation say.

Like Bob said, this isn't really that shocking. The booth rental is one of the smaller expenses.

[guzhogi]

Hell, I would.

Yeah, for $100/hr, right?

[techmonkey]

So what if Belkin paid for its booth space, thats only a small fraction of the cost of a trade show.

Apple should be ashamed at their Black Friday sale. With the economy the way it is, their Black Friday sale was a joke...

[schneb]

Just conduct the show online, its would be cheaper for Apple and Company. Trade Shows are history and this downturn will only garner more reasoning.
Have to say that this was my impression as well. Everything should go online, including all the workshops and announcements. Fees to participate online should be priced at about $5 or based on the amount of workshops you attend.

[schneb]

It is the same thing, time to move on and let the old ways go.
Jesus said it best, "One does not put new wine into old wineskins." You are absolutely right in your assessment here. Those still attending shows are clinging to old ways and this business practice has another few years before it dies. During tough economic times, companies look for ways to cut fat, and nothing spells fatty more than an expensive and laborious trade show.

Apple needs to start :apple: Apple iCon and start it with a big bang of new products and announcements. Do it at a large theater (Flint Center?) with lots of pumped Apple users and broadcast it live via the internet for all to see and enjoy. Admission to the event alone would pay for all the expenses, and Apple Stores can set up live, outdoor projection feeds. THAT my friends, is the way to do it.

[IJ Reilly]

During the '90s it was almost impossible to leave a trade show like MacWorld without a bag load of spiffs -- free t-shirts, software, promotional items of all kinds. It made it more fun to go, and sometimes even a real payoff. In those years, MacWorld filled the entire Moscone Center, north and south halls. It was an absolutely immense show. All that ended after 2000, which is also when MacWorld shrunk substantially. The expo was making a real come-back in the last couple of years, in terms of size -- so even though the freebees never returned, it was back to its former size.

The truth is, even if major vendors pull out or scale down their exhibits, people will still come by the tens of thousands. They will have less to see. The vendors won't be lavishing them with gifts. Those days will probably never return.

[fleshman03]

Hell, I would.

Some of the happiest people on the planet go home stinking to high heaven.

[kingtj]

I worked for a small ISP and for a couple of small computer resellers in the midwest, years ago, who all took turns at exhibiting at local trade-shows - and we had the same experience each time. It would have been worthwhile, if not for the absolute robbery by the unions in charge of the operations.

We weren't so much as allowed to plug in a power strip to hook up a couple PCs. The union electrician had to do it, at a cost of over $100 per day! And Internet access (kind of critical if you're an ISP at an exhibit!) was insane too. They didn't have wireless available, and again, the union electrician had to provide you with a CAT5 Ethernet cable to share the T1 circuit running to the convention center. For that, you paid the union their ridiculous fee to give you the physical connection, and then a daily usage fee on top of that. Never mind the fact the bandwidth you got was horrible, with 50+ people trying to do things over a 1.5MBit connection simultaneously.

It's really unfortunate for the end-users who buy tickets to these shows and really want to see the latest technologies .... but in a slow economy especially, how many businesses can justify the expense anymore?


SF is a nightmare place to participate in a trade show. Everything from taxicabs to parking to hotels is outrageously expensive. Then you begin dealing with the highway robbers who run Moscone Center, and you soon realize your booth fees constitute a tiny fraction of the overall investment in having trade show presence. The unions are beyond larcenous. Even the smallest booth costs about $150 to have vacuumed, a ten-minute job! I once had a guy with a broom stop for a moment in front of my booth as he swept up after a show. He paused and grinned, "I make $100 an hour! God bless America!"

And a floor-sweeper made that kind of money because fools like me were willing to pay it.

Like printed catalogs, trade shows are rapidly becoming obsolete and even silly. As a promotional tool, they reach very few customers, so why bother? An exception would be technical society meetings or other specialized-market conferences where practically the whole global customer base can fit onto the show floor and attendance becomes a major perk for the customer. Shows like that are staged in destination cities like Frisco. It makes far less sense for companies like Belkin to do something of the sort in a broadly horizontal market with millions of customers. Hats off to Belkin for their common sense and the courage to act on it.

[IJ Reilly]

Unions killing trade shows? That's utter baloney. These companies were happy to pay the costs of exhibiting at these shows when the economy wasn't in the tank. Now they're laying off hundreds if not thousands of employees and pulling back everywhere. We've seen it all before.

[sjinsjca]

i'm surprised that so many here are willing to believe that a janitor makes $100 an hour based on one supposed informal comment. what blue collar worker in this country make $100 an hour?


...The ones whose union prevents any competition from rationalizing the equation, even the owners of the booth?

I sometimes get my jollies by toying with the union guys at trade shows. It' isn't the rule, but they can be quite mulish and unresponsive, and it is fun to get them motivated when that happens. Once, at Moscone, I arrived on Sunday to find that our booth was not set up. It was supposed to have been set up by the contract labor folks on Thursday. A colleague did the civilized thing and went politely to the services desk, stood in line, and requested assistance. Hours later, nothing had happened. He was about to go back and do the hat-in-hand thing again. I said, "Hold on, watch this," and went to work putting the booth together myself.

Sure enough: within two minutes the union supervisor was in our booth, shouting at me. "Hey, you're not supposed to be doing that!" I shrugged and kept doing it. "You gotta stop! Your contract says we do the setup!" he shrieked. With that I whirled on him and hissed, "Our contract says it was supposed to be done Thursday, too. You really want to go there?"

My colleague thought I was about to punch the guy, but after a moment's stand-off, he blinked and pulled out his walkie-talkie.

Our booth was fully assembled within thirty minutes, and I've been cackling ever since. Those people are so much fun to play with. They're like my pets.

---

By the way, the point many have missed about my $100-an-hour-floor-sweeper anecdote is that he doesn't work your normal 40-hour work-week. Such employment is episodic. Even so, the only way he can enjoy an hourly rate like that is to work in a profession decoupled from a competitive marketplace.

[pubwvj]

I'm not surprised. We eliminated our company's booths at MacWorld long ago. The web is where it's at. Why bother spending $50,000 to $250,000 on booths, lodging, personnel and travel when you can achieve the same results online?

[IJ Reilly]

I'm not surprised. We eliminated our company's booths at MacWorld long ago. The web is where it's at. Why bother spending $50,000 to $250,000 on booths, lodging, personnel and travel when you can achieve the same results online?

And even with the internet, MacWorld can still fill up both halls of the Moscone Center. How do you figure?

Reality check: Companies are not giving up on trade shows because of the internet. The only thing which has changed between last year and this year is the economy.

[sjinsjca]

Unions killing trade shows? That's utter baloney.


You clearly have never run a business. It's the cost/benefit ratio that's killing trade shows, and the larceny of the unions is the biggest single part of the "cost" part, as many of us have attested.

It's the same with Detroit. The Big Three can't be competitive when they have to pay union rates and benefits while Toyota and Honda can open up non-unionized factories here and build cars for less.

To return to Belkin's example [cheering], they made the business decision that the incremental profits from spending the money to attend the show didn't justify the expense. If the expense had been less--that is, if the unions had been less greedy and the city of San Francisco more accommodating--the decision might have been different.

[sjinsjca]

Reality check: Companies are not giving up on trade shows because of the internet. The only thing which has changed between last year and this year is the economy.


Trade show attendance took a big dive after 9/11 because of both economic and security concerns. As the economy recovered, so did trade shows--partially--but my experience has been that the quality of attendees never really recovered. We see more tire-kickers and freebie-seekers and fewer solid prospects.

Shows in SF are particularly worse off in recent years. The city is damnably expensive, transportation is impossible, parking is stratospheric... and attendees basically have to take a day off to attend. After the "right-sizing" of the '90s and the harrowing of the tech economy after the dot-com bust (both of which predated the scary monster some here seem so eager to pull out of their toybox, George Bush), the folks that remain in Silicon Valley are too damn busy to go to a freakin' trade show.

Now, with a softening economy, businesses are looking at their annual investment in marketing and promotion along with everything else. And trade shows are first against the wall, again because the cost/benefit ratio sucks. Costs keep going up, especially in Frisco, and the benefits have been going down. What's so hard to understand?

[IJ Reilly]

You clearly have never run a business. It's the cost/benefit ratio that's killing trade shows, and the larceny of the unions is the biggest single part of the "cost" part, as many of us have attested.

Never? I do run a business. If trade shows are taking a hit this year, you might want to control for the variables. The costs are not what have changed between this year and last. Something else has though. Maybe you've noticed?

Trade show attendance took a big dive after 9/11 because of both economic and security concerns. As the economy recovered, so did trade shows--partially--but my experience has been that the quality of attendees never really recovered. We see more tire-kickers and freebie-seekers and fewer solid prospects.

Shows in SF are particularly worse off in recent years. The city is damnably expensive, transportation is impossible, parking is stratospheric... and attendees basically have to take a day off to attend. After the "right-sizing" of the '90s and the harrowing of the tech economy after the dot-com bust (both of which predated the scary monster some here seem so eager to pull out of their toybox, George Bush), the folks that remain in Silicon Valley are too damn busy to go to a freakin' trade show.

Now, with a softening economy, businesses are looking at their annual investment in marketing and promotion along with everything else. And trade shows are first against the wall, again because the cost/benefit ratio sucks. Costs keep going up, especially in Frisco, and the benefits have been going down. What's so hard to understand?

The technology trade shows fell off a cliff after 2000, with the dot-com bust. These companies had venture capital coming out of their ears during the late '90s. By 2001 it was all gone. In 2000 I covered the InternetWorld Expo in Los Angeles -- it was so huge it took up the entire LA Convention Center and then some. It literally flowed out into the parking garages. By 2001 it was little more than an encampment. This expo was not held again.

I've seen much the same ebb and flow with MacWorld. It shrunk substantially after 2000 but in recent years had grown in size back to where it was in the late '90s -- or pretty close at least. Now the economy has struck again. I have little doubt that when the economy improves in a year or two, the companies that stayed away or cut back this year will return.

[pubwvj]

And even with the internet, MacWorld can still fill up both halls of the Moscone Center. How do you figure?

Reality check: Companies are not giving up on trade shows because of the internet. The only thing which has changed between last year and this year is the economy.

Real Reality Check: Trade show attendance and exhibiting began plummeting a long time ago. It was dealt a blow by the Internet as many companies turned to the web for marketing. It was dealt another blow by 9/11. The economy is just the latest blow. Perhaps you are not aware of the history of the rise and then gradual decline of the MacWorld trade show on the east coast.

[Lesser Evets]

People are all preparing for a VERY bad 2009, which is predicting the incoming administration and legislative branch. Prepare for some good deals!

Anyone making good money, or sitting on pile of cash, will clean up as values depreciate for a while. Companies will tighten up all their expenditures and its obvious from moves like this. Unfortunately we won't see any real price differences from Apple. {._.} They don't need to be that dynamic since most of their customers make the big bux.

The expo is a telling indicator.

[schneb]

Our booth was fully assembled within thirty minutes, and I've been cackling ever since. Those people are so much fun to play with.
LOL, loved the anecdote.

[137489]

During the '90s it was almost impossible to leave a trade show like MacWorld without a bag load of spiffs -- free t-shirts, software, promotional items of all kinds. It made it more fun to go, and sometimes even a real payoff. In those years, MacWorld filled the entire Moscone Center, north and south halls. It was an absolutely immense show. All that ended after 2000, which is also when MacWorld shrunk substantially. The expo was making a real come-back in the last couple of years, in terms of size -- so even though the freebees never returned, it was back to its former size.

The truth is, even if major vendors pull out or scale down their exhibits, people will still come by the tens of thousands. They will have less to see. The vendors won't be lavishing them with gifts. Those days will probably never return.


I know what you mean, and it is not just the auto show or macworld either.. here in town we have an event every year called "Tour De-Tailwaggers". a local free advent hosting a dog show, free or low cost rabies clinic, food vendors (for humans too), and other groups set up selliing doggie stuff. Last year and the year before that, the entire park was full of people and vendors. We walked out with our arms loaded (plus the pups) of free stuff, or stuff we bought at a bargain.

this year.. Only the people running the dogshow, 2 vendors, and Chick-Fil-A (local chicken chain - healthier than KFC), and maybe an ice cream vendor showed up. PetSmart - who sponsored the event was a no show (in fact the announcer called for them on 2 different occassions (to fill their posted slot) and had to say "Well, I see they are not hear yet"). even the vet who was supposed to do the rabies clinic was a no-show. some one just had cards saying to call for an appt.

------------------------------------------

Other shows have also been on the decline and vendors or sponsors just have not showed up., leaving people holding the bag.

Sad...

[morespce54]

...In a related way, I have cancelled my Mac magazines this year too. Not because I don't enjoy them but because they are already several months out of date by the time I get them. It is the same thing, time to move on and let the old ways go. Reading the Mac World Web Site version it should be right up to date and won't have "December Issue" on the front page in October!

A bit OT, but I agree.
As much as I enjoy the paper versions, It's kind of lame to receive a magazine when you already know half of the content by the time you receive your printed copy.

[morespce54]

You clearly have never run a business. It's the cost/benefit ratio that's killing trade shows, and the larceny of the unions is the biggest single part of the "cost" part, as many of us have attested.


Well, unions might be a part of the "cost" part but doesn't count for all the "cost" part. I don't think unions has much to do with renting a trash bin at $20 per day.

[neutrino23]

SF is a nightmare place to participate in a trade show. Everything from taxicabs to parking to hotels is outrageously expensive. Then you begin dealing with the highway robbers who run Moscone Center, and you soon realize your booth fees constitute a tiny fraction of the overall investment in having trade show presence. The unions are beyond larcenous. Even the smallest booth costs about $150 to have vacuumed, a ten-minute job! I once had a guy with a broom stop for a moment in front of my booth as he swept up after a show. He paused and grinned, "I make $100 an hour! God bless America!"

And a floor-sweeper made that kind of money because fools like me were willing to pay it.

Like printed catalogs, trade shows are rapidly becoming obsolete and even silly. As a promotional tool, they reach very few customers, so why bother? An exception would be technical society meetings or other specialized-market conferences where practically the whole global customer base can fit onto the show floor and attendance becomes a major perk for the customer. Shows like that are staged in destination cities like Frisco. It makes far less sense for companies like Belkin to do something of the sort in a broadly horizontal market with millions of customers. Hats off to Belkin for their common sense and the courage to act on it.

I don't think SF is that expensive. I travel a lot and it seems in line with other places. You can find a range of hotel prices everywhere. The difference is that if you go during a large convention or if you make arrangements late you'll wind up paying more.

I'll also disagree somewhat with the technical society shows comment. It may be true for wealthy societies like those in the fields of medicine or law. I attend several in the area of science and they, being rather poor, are held off season in places like Atlanta where you can get the facilities almost for free.

[neutrino23]

How much ancillary product vendors can there be for a company thats basically become a glorified cell phone manufacturer?

There is a grain of truth in this remark. I recall when MWSF vendors sold all sorts of enhancements to computers. Now most of those enhancements are built in or extremely cheap. Laser printers were $5,000, video cards were thousands of dollars, high resolution monitors were thousands of dollars, hard drives were thousands of dollars, and so on.

I remember one guy who just sold a plug in that would add blowing leaves across a video. Another had a plug in that would add drifting fog.

Now everything is built in or costs far below $1,000. Not much margin there to pay for a booth.

[rockosmodurnlif]

It's ironic. This economic cluster-duck has been great for my business. I design and update mall directories. With great store turnover, directories have to be updated more frequently which is some nice coin for me. Business has never been better.

Again I say: ironic.
I think the proper term is fustercluck.

[kingtj]

No, obviously there are a number of costs involved in any decision to do a trade show exhibit. You have to pay your employees who are manning your booth, for starters. At a big show, that's usually substantial - because you can't really expect 1 or 2 people to stay there the whole time, and efficiently answer all the questions that come their way, demo products as needed, and ensure things aren't stolen. (Unfortunately, some people who attend these shows do so with an intent to take home a few "freebies" that weren't intended to be given away....)

The insanely high costs for things like booth assembly, running power cords and strips, cleanup, etc. just push a lot of smaller businesses "over the edge" where they don't come back after the first time. One business I used to work for refurbished vintage Macs and configured them as "first computers for small kids". We went out of business not long after doing our first trade show. We sold quite a few systems there and generated a lot of interest, but ultimately, we STILL lost money when we looked at our expenses vs. sales.

Others *do* keep, hesitantly, showing up -- but that doesn't make the union "robbery" any more "ok". Some people just believe it's critically important to get out there, face-to-face with your customers and give people a chance to know the people that makes your business go. The Internet is great, but in some ways, it's the exact OPPOSITE of a live event. The social aspect is completely absent.


Well, unions might be a part of the "cost" part but doesn't count for all the "cost" part. I don't think unions has much to do with renting a trash bin at $20 per day.

[/dev/toaster]

Tradeshows are just ridiculously over priced. I won't go to one unless its free, sorry but I will not pay for the privilege to talk to vendors who want to sell me stuff. I didn't go to Linux world this year becuase I couldn't find anyone with free passes. Sure, its only $25 for thats not the point.

Macworld is the same deal, I am not going to pay to get in. If I find a free coupon I will go, but I doubt that will happen.

[IJ Reilly]

Real Reality Check: Trade show attendance and exhibiting began plummeting a long time ago. It was dealt a blow by the Internet as many companies turned to the web for marketing. It was dealt another blow by 9/11. The economy is just the latest blow. Perhaps you are not aware of the history of the rise and then gradual decline of the MacWorld trade show on the east coast.

I have attended all but one of the MWSF expos over the last 10-12 years, in fact covered them, so I am aware that the show attendance and the number of exhibitors bottomed out around 6-7 years ago, but have been growing ever since. This show is now nearly as big as it was during the heyday of the late 1990s.

[alexbates]

Tradeshows are just ridiculously over priced. I won't go to one unless its free, sorry but I will not pay for the privilege to talk to vendors who want to sell me stuff. I didn't go to Linux world this year becuase I couldn't find anyone with free passes. Sure, its only $25 for thats not the point.

Macworld is the same deal, I am not going to pay to get in. If I find a free coupon I will go, but I doubt that will happen.

Same with me. I would love to go but I don't want to pay to get in and also the plane ticket to get there.

[motulist]

I would love to go but I don't want to pay to get in and also the plane ticket to get there.

I don't know what things are like in the trade show scene these days, but in the mid to late 90's it was actually really easy to get free tickets to macworld NY and AES (audio engineering) trade shows if you worked anywhere in the industry. Back then I used to work as a sales person in a music instrument store. The music instrument, music tool, and music software company reps were always trying to schmooze us so we'd decide to sell more of their company's products rather than their competitors products. So I wound up with free tickets to two different years macworld NY conventions, and a free ticket to the AES convention. For free, it was an interesting way to spend a day. Having had the experience of going to trade shows I can tell you that it really isn't worth spending any money on at all. Of course if you have the extra entertainment money laying around and you have the mojo to score a ticket to a Jobs keynote speech, then I would guess that that would probably be worth paying for at least once.

[IJ Reilly]

Free floor entry passes to MacWorld are easy to get.

[AidenShaw]

Free floor entry passes to MacWorld are easy to get.

I got mine the 12th of September.

[mdntcallr]

Moscone is another example of a Sickly overpriced convention hall with Unions which the exhibition companies are forced to shell out way too much to do the simplest of things.

Sorry, I am for unions in the right circumstances. these days unions aren't meant to protect workers, instead they seem to exact every pound of flesh they can for very little work. Just another example of what is WRONG in america today.

For the good ole usa to compete, these mafia type convention hall unions need to go the way of the dinosaur. Sorry but the stuff that happens in SF at Moscone is crazy overpriced. it really is. same with Javitz center in NY.

There needs to be alternatives to the union convention centers in places like NY, SF or LA. Something competitive and .... that offers just a decent value to those who show somewhere.

[iceman1234]

My dads company hand a kiosk at macworld last year. now its not going at all...

[137489]

Ya know, I wonder is Adobe is going to stop writing some software for Apple. their latest Acrobat PDF creator is lacking some features that the windows version had. I was also looking for other software and came across an article where they were not going to release the new version of Premeir Elements on Mac, due to iMovie being such a dominate force and free with every mac.

although, the new Premier Elements looks alot like a cross between iMovie 06 HD and iMovie 7 (that is in iLife 08). they are nick naming it iMovie comes to Windows.

http://www.wired.com/software/softwarereviews/news/2007/09/adobe_premiere4

I am just wondering if part of the no-show also had to do with catering more toward Windows.

[Stebus]

I do think this recession is going to be long lasting. We have been in it for over a year, every day there is more news of downturns and job loses, plus all the mney the govenment is trying to pump into the economy will have to be paid back to china (that is who we are borrowing the money from). No wonder their economy if booming. We borrow money from them, that has to be paid back with interest, to buy their products. :rolleyes:

You do realise that the 'Federal' Reserve is a private company right? There's nothing federal about them, they are a bank just like BOA. The government 'buys' money from them, which they then have to pay back with interest. (That interest is paid through income tax which is grossly unconstitutional.) Money = Debt, and we lead a life of servitude. The best way to keep slaves happy is to make them think they aren't slaves. :P

[AidenShaw]

I am just wondering if part of the no-show also had to do with catering more toward Windows.

...or perhaps having to do with Adobe having been abused again by Apple? (Carbon64, I'm looking at you.)

[kdarling]

Don't forget that Apple hosts Microsoft's Silverlight on their website now.

Adobe can't love that too much.

[AidenShaw]

Don't forget that Apple hosts Microsoft's Silverlight on their website now.

Adobe can't love that too much.

Hadn't seen that, thanks.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/development_tools/silverlight.html

[kaiwai]

Don't forget that Apple hosts Microsoft's Silverlight on their website now.

Adobe can't love that too much.

I think greater pain inflicted would be if Microsoft and Apple teamed up and Silverlight content creation tools were made available on MacOS X. Adobe had their chance to fix the disgusting mess that is Flash - time for someone else to replace Flash with something thats worth a damn.

Back ontopic in reference to the expo's; the same thing has been happening in New Zealand at non-IT related expo's. Many are lowering their prices. For alot of organisations it is very difficult to legitimise the amount spent and what it brings in. I was in a political party this years election and the amount required for one of these stands, the potential voting base, and the possibility of nabbing some undecided voters was so remote it wasn't worth doing in the end. IMHO expo's are over rated, and have been so for quite some time.