Is made in America important to you?

[63dot]

Does it have to be made in the USA, or NAFTA partners Canada and Mexico? And can buying from here, or nearby help in the long run vs. having it made overseas? Will making it here pollute less and be able to control environmentally under NAFTA regulations? I put this post in this section and not the political forums because I don't want to make it a way to bash political leaders from any countries. I hope the mods agree. :)

I know it's no magic bullet, but from now on, if possible and affordable within reason on my budget, I am going to try and buy here, and Canadian and Mexican products.

There are certain things that I can't find from here like many computer high tech products, sneakers, and underwear among other items. But my Levi's are from Mexico and Fender guitars I have owned were built mostly there and in the USA. I am glad that Apple Inc. decided to put one of their customer service centers in Canada, when they could have gone overseas and saved much more money.

One day I may upgrade my computer speakers and my guitar amplifier, and there are Canadian, Mexican, and American alternatives to buying from overseas. There is no doubt that an overseas product may offer more value for the dollar and have more features for the dollar, but this is a sacrifice I am willing to make.

[dukebound85]

i know i go for quality than where its made

[63dot]

i know i go for quality than where its made

I did too, at one time thus the reason I bought a Chinese made guitar for $370 instead of similar quality guitar from Mexico for $600 dollars or a Canadian one for $700 dollars. The US counterpart was $1200 so it was not in the loop.

But I wasn't thinking about how this could impact the recession economy we are in. I should have bought USA or from NAFTA partners Canada and Mexico.

[yg17]

Not at all. I care about quality. If it comes from America, Canada, Japan, Germany, China, Timbuktu or the Moon, I really don't care.

[erickkoch]

If quality and price are comparable I'll veer towards the MADE IN AMERICA product, otherwise, no.

[neiltc13]

I steer well clear of products with "made in the USA" on them because they are likely extremely expensive (paying for brand names) or won't work properly.

This is especially the case with cars. That said, there aren't too many products on sale here which are actually made in the USA and the imports we do get tend to be of extremely poor quality (Subway, McDonalds and Burger King, I'm looking at you).

If I was buying to "support" an economy, then buying an American product would probably be near the very bottom of my list which is headed by Germany and the United Kingdom.

[drichards]

As long as the bottom says DESIGNED BY APPLE IN CALIFORNIA you're good to go.

[synth3tik]

As long as it is not an automobile I won't stray away from it.

[jessica.]

As long as the bottom says DESIGNED BY APPLE IN CALIFORNIA you're good to go.

Designed and made are two different things.

I say generally speaking I would prefer it, but not at the risk of sacrificing quality. Generally speaking, especially today, I think it is important to support local establishments as well as American-Made merchandise (if you're in the US). Honestly, our economy could certainly use a boost, but if they output trash then there's not much any of us can do. I men, wasting your hard earned dollars on trash just to support the country's economy doesn't sound very economical. I'm sure some will disagree, but that is my opinion.

[hulugu]

I think it's almost impossible to really "buy American" at this point, so it's hardly worth worrying about. I try to buy things from local businesses and local producers, but obviously, even if I buy camping gear from the local outdoors outfitters, the actual gear comes from points all over the world. Even a local beer brewery, which seems like a simple thing, has equipment from France and buys their hops from Germany. And, right now, I'm drinking coffee made by a machine from Italy, the cup is from China (or California, I can't read the tiny label), and the printed label is from Vermont.

[NT1440]

I only care if its a strat.

[63dot]

I think it's almost impossible to really "buy American" at this point, so it's hardly worth worrying about. I try to buy things from local businesses and local producers, but obviously, even if I buy camping gear from the local outdoors outfitters, the actual gear comes from points all over the world. Even a local beer brewery, which seems like a simple thing, has equipment from France and buys their hops from Germany. And, right now, I'm drinking coffee made by a machine from Italy, the cup is from China (or California, I can't read the tiny label), and the printed label is from Vermont.

Actually, I thought about putting this in the post, too. Buying locally, especially for recession ridden rural areas, is key to keeping such areas from becoming ghost towns. I live in one of the oldest cities in my state which was once a booming city. However, much of the commerce either moved to the north or south, or even out of state and those other areas got heavily developed.

I don't care if I spend a few dollars more for local store products vs. just getting something over the internet drop shipped from China or India. Even buying a product from China or India, but from a local store in your area does help that store, the employer and employees who are working because the store is there, and the town that the store is in since the business pays taxes to the city and that state.

I used to think that buying locally was a tactic that the small local businesses did to stay in business for only their purposes. But helping a local store helps you, too and the local community it serves.

[iVeBeenDrinkin']

Yes, I stopped drinking Bud Lite and only drink Miller Lite now for that very reason.

[sushi]

I think it's almost impossible to really "buy American" at this point, so it's hardly worth worrying about.
Agree.

Most products have subcomponents made around the world, so it is really hard to purchase something completely made in the USA.

In my case, I prefer to purchase quality goods and then use them for years. You may pay more in initial costs, but overall cost is less.

[abijnk]

Saw this come up on Neatorama back on the 1st.

Link (http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2008/11/practical-values-o-say-can-you-buy.html)


i had been cursing up and down the aisles at the grocery store for half an hour when I finally found a can of black beans claiming to be "100% usa family farm organically grown." I was on a weeklong mission to buy only American-made goods, and my very first shopping trip had turned into a debacle. I'd been forced to put back the bananas, cherries, coconut, and chipotle peppers, and I was about to blow $15 on a tiny bottle of US-made olive oil.

I was hoisting the beans triumphantly above my head when my roommate approached. "What about the packaging?" she asked. I scowled at her. More of the world's aluminum comes from China than from anywhere else; the only way to know the origins of this particular can was to call the company—and it was Saturday. "Buying American is such a pain in the ass!" I wailed.

In 1990, when I was in grade school, I watched a union-sponsored commercial in which a mother told her little boy that they would have to move because Dad had lost his job—too many people were buying imports. As union jobs dried up, so did that campaign; now, 14 years into nafta, buying local is hot, but buying American is, at best, a joke (though in August Barack Obama dusted off the sentiment with his "Buy American, Vote Obama" slogan). When I told Scott Paul, executive director of the Alliance for American Manufacturing, that I was going to buy only American for a week, he laughed. "I'm very sorry to hear that.

"It's exceptionally hard, if not impossible, to be 100 percent pure," he explained. "There are just some things you can't buy. It's incredibly difficult and depressing."

Organic. Independent. A host of considerations drive my shopping habits, and I'd had a vague idea that "Made in" stickers ought to as well. But it wasn't until I actually tried that I realized how hard it is: To start, there's not a single marginally comprehensive listing of American-made products. Sure, you can search the databases at the afl-cio's UnionLabel.org and ShopUnionMade.org. But the selection is...slim. BuyAmerican.com is a store that features exactly one sweater, and man, is it ugly. And companies that do manufacture in the US don't seem to bother using it as a selling point. When I asked the shop-floor guy at New Balance, which produces some shoe styles domestically, whether they had any US-made clothes, he demurred. "There's really no call for that, so it wouldn't make sense."

I'd been putting off buying a bra, so I added it to my shopping list. The thought of American Apparel's Dov Charney making my underwear in between fighting off sexual-harassment lawsuits didn't really appeal, and I knew enough to rule out Victoria's Secret (Sri Lanka), H&M (Turkey/Cambodia), and Gap (Singapore/Bangladesh/Bahrain). So I headed to Nordstrom. After checking several dozen tags, I advanced on a saleswoman. "Excuse me," I apologized. "Do you have any bras that were made in America?"

"Ooh," she said, as if I'd just handed her something foul smelling. "That's a good one." She started to point, then stopped. "No, those are manufactured somewhere else," she mumbled. "No," she shrugged, scanning the vast lingerie selection. "There aren't any."

Anything I needed during that long week required hours of research and dozens of phone calls. Expensive domestic apples and strawberries busted my grocery budget. I'm still wearing a made-in-the-Philippines bra I bought in 2005. I failed my assignment and my country when out of desperation and frustration, respectively, I bought a pack of Sony CDs and a jar of peanut butter of dubious origin. The issue wasn't whether I could buy American—clearly, I couldn't. No, the real question was, Why should I even try?

I called Ravi Batra, a Southern Methodist University economics professor and best-selling author of The Great Depression of 1990, who reminded me that "it's important to revive our manufacturing base and create high-paying jobs." The US lost 212,000 manufacturing jobs last year alone, and the average manufacturing job pays $713 per week, nearly twice as much as the average retail gig. When wages go up, there's more employment because people buy more. When wages go down, people use credit. Patching this imbalance with debt means...well, we just found out. "In the end," Batra said gloomily, "there's a huge economic debacle."

While that's sort of compelling, not everyone agrees with that school of thought. "What's really important is that even if I'm not buying American, other countries are buying some American stuff," Vinod Singhal, Georgia Institute of Technology professor and editor of the industry publication Manufacturing & Service Operations Management, told me. "That's what trade is all about." Singhal allowed that there are practical reasons to buy American: Consumers are better assured that their purchase won't be coated with lead, or made by third-graders. But in the broader economic picture, overall US employment has remained steady despite our growing trade imbalance, and we still dominate in some high-tech, high-value areas. In 2007, US manufacturing sales were a record $5 trillion. Let Vietnam make our T-shirts, the argument goes; we're making jet planes. "It's a very resilient economy, and generally the economy bounces back when it's pushed to the edge," Singhal concluded. "I'm very confident about how America will respond to these kind of challenges. When the pain goes beyond a threshold level, that's when you tend to react."

I suppose. And granted, as a former English major I am in no way qualified to settle a long-standing dispute between the let-the-markets-rule camp and the save-domestic-industry set. But if the fact that I actually started clapping when I discovered American-made wax paper at Walgreens is any indication, the time to react might have arrived.

[hulugu]

Agree.

Most products have subcomponents made around the world, so it is really hard to purchase something completely made in the USA.

In my case, I prefer to purchase quality goods and then use them for years. You may pay more in initial costs, but overall cost is less.

It's definitely worth buying the better product.

I've bought cheap clothing in market-stalls and those items barely lasted a month much less a year, while other items that seemed pricey are nearly indestructible.

That's been true with coats, boots, backpacks, and other items.

What's really fun is to find the weird exceptions, where the el-cheap-o item outlasts and outperforms the pricey items, but these are rare.

...I used to think that buying locally was a tactic that the small local businesses did to stay in business for only their purposes. But helping a local store helps you, too and the local community it serves.

I think a mixture of near and far is a good way to operate. I buy local beer, local food, and local clothing, art, and other things, but I also buy camera gear from Japan and computers from Apple, which means California designs made in Chinese factories. If I can, I avoid chains. If not, I go to chains that seem to have the motto "don't be evil."


EDIT: It just occurred to me, the only industry that one might be able to actually buy American might be books. While there are imprints from England and other countries, many books are published in the United States. So, if you want to buy American, heading towards your local bookstore might not be so bad.

[63dot]

I know in a complex item, such as my beloved Fender Stratocaster, which was the topic of a major grad school paper I did, and floated around as my master's thesis possibility, is made from wood from Canada, the Philippines, and India.

Sometimes part of the wood supply is grown in the US from certain years but that is increasingly rare. That wood is shaped into a body in Ensenada, Mexico from a state of the art shaper/router that uses computers and robotics (from Japan, China, and Taiwan) and shipped to the US in California or further built in Mexico at their own factory. Some bodies are shaped in the US but anymore, increasingly, the US is more of the final setup and quality control center, or using American experts at Fender's foreign factories to keep things remarkably consistent, like Starbucks or McDonalds.

The components for the elctrical and electronic parts are often from Taiwan, and this goes for much of Fender's electronics that go into their world famous amps.

A long used bridge on the Stratocaster's double locking models came from Germany, but from an American design. Many non locking trem Strats used ESP parts from Japan over the years. The tuners come from Schaller in Germany, Grover in the USA, and Gotoh in Japan and South Korea.

Strap buttons for many years came from Schaller in Germany.

The paint was once from the big auto makers on opaque colors but that could be different today. Certain high end finishes come from banned toxic finishes used and made in a country well known for still using, well, toxic paints. :)

The Fender Stratocaster, the American icon, is made in the USA, Mexico, or China, among others, and is not purely a product of any one country from that list. It's a team project from the screws, to the copper windings for the pickups, to the finishes, to the routers that shape their bodies. My own skateboard and skate clothing business had automated tools I plan to purchase, and they are all from China from what I have seen.

Twenty or thirty years ago, I don't think this was the case with those skate clothing silk screen presses I am eyeing over with great lust. :)

[63dot]

what about the American garment industry?

Much of the work done in New York in the garment district were from Chinese workers. The main difference today is that the Chinese workers are from China doing work over there.

There is still that issue of having clothes made so far away and shipped here. How much of a carbon footprint is made from all the stuff made in Europe and Asia and shipped here?

I think one way, though a small way perhaps, to reduce carbon emissions is to keep as much as possible ultra local in small economies. Gaps in goods can be filled by internet shopping. Maybe we can combine the old with the new since the global warming thing will be the fight for our lives.

The other day, I got the rest of my "smart" lightbulbs that have been sitting around and put them in the lamps that I don't even use that much. Even so, what little I do use them for, it's nice to know that they have a smaller carbon footprint.

[cycocelica]

Not at all. I care about quality. If it comes from America, Canada, Japan, Germany, China, Timbuktu or the Moon, I really don't care.

What he said. Although I do get a warm feeling when I do buy something that's made in America.

[it5five]

I don't necessarily buy only American/North American, but I do my best to buy non-sweatshop.

Almost all of my clothes are American Apparel (entirely made in LA), I'm pretty sure New Balance shoes are made in the US or UK (for the European market). I don't buy any processed foods, so I don't have to worry that much about my food being from outside of NA.

[Desertrat]

I shop by comparison of quality and price, and even there the actual need comes into the equation. For instance, many of my hand tools are Snap-On; they're the absolute best--with some wrenches in the $15 to $25 range. Lesser use, I have some of those el-cheapo wrenches which come in sets from SAM's, for $20 for a set.

I've no complaints with the US-made vehicles I've owned, particularly my full-sized 2000 GMC pickup. I've added 110,000 miles to the original user's 50,000, with only some brake work. But, for rough roads in the back country, nothing beats the small Toyota 4WD pickup.

Still, "Buy American" won't do much for the overall economy. The only way any nation can be healthy is to produce items for export at a competitive price, and keep the balance of payments even or positive. We quit trying to do that some thirty or forty years ago.

'Rat

[BigHungry04]

Yes, I stopped drinking Bud Lite and only drink Miller Lite now for that very reason.

SABMiller, the company that owns the MillerCoors brand is based in South Africa. So um... yeah, you're supporting an American company.

Wait for it.....


Not!

[JW8725]

I tend not to buy Made in America items.

[abijnk]

Yes, I stopped drinking Bud Lite and only drink Miller Lite now for that very reason.

Bud might be owned by a company outside of America, but it is very much Made in America...

[63dot]

SABMiller, the company that owns the MillerCoors brand is based in South Africa. So um... yeah, you're supporting an American company.

Wait for it.....


Not!

If Anchor or Sierra Nevada sells out, then I am moving! :)

[hulugu]

I shop by comparison of quality and price, and even there the actual need comes into the equation. For instance, many of my hand tools are Snap-On; they're the absolute best--with some wrenches in the $15 to $25 range. Lesser use, I have some of those el-cheapo wrenches which come in sets from SAM's, for $20 for a set.

I'd like to have my entire tool kit be from Snap-On, but I've got a bunch of cheap screwdrivers from Ace Hardware and a set of wrenches from Manny, Moe, and Jack, not to mention a bunch of odds and ends from parts unknown.

[MacNut]

I would rather buy safe products. I don't want any crap in my food or lead in toys.

[yoppie]

No. I want quality products at a reasonable price. I don't care where it came from.

[northy124]

No it doesn't matter as I'm in the UK and would rather have EU made:P

[és:]

Yes.

If it's made in America, I generally try to avoid it.

[northy124]

Yes.

If it's made in America, I generally try to avoid it.
LoL :p

[SLC Flyfishing]

In response to the original question:

Nope, made in america isn't important to me. I buy the best quality stuff I can afford, regardless of where it's manufactured or designed. That means I don't buy American Cars for example. I stick to the Big 4 Japanese makes: Mazda, Honda, Toyota, or Nissan. Never had an ounce of trouble with any of those cars.

I did have a dodge once and it was a P.O.S., same with the Ford, and you won't even get me to touch a Chevrolet. I also owned a Jeep CJ (back before they were part of the Chrysler company) and while I loved it and had a blast with it. I could see that it wasn't up to snuff in the quality department. Engine was dying at 85,000 and completely shot at 120,000, and I babied that engine. Hondas can give you well over 200,000 if you treat them right.

SLC

[mactastic]

Quality is generally my top priority. And depending on the intended use, I may be in the market for high or low quality. Ain't no way I'm buying top-shelf vodka for mixing drinks at a party, ya know? OTOH, I'm looking at dropping a pretty penny for a planer, because I demand quality in my shop even though it's just a hobby.

As for American stuff... it's nice when I can get it. Both items I purchased for my wife for xmas this year are quality American products, and she will have and use both for years (if not decades for at least one of the items). I won't get into my kid's toys (because those are likely from China and "made by kids, for kids") but I like to support quality American businesses.

[63dot]

No it doesn't matter as I'm in the UK and would rather have EU made:P

Basically the same concept for the green front, in that it doesn't have to be shipped from Asia or the US/NAFTA so there's a smaller carbon footprint. Local economies worldwide, until we can find a better, cleaner way to ship goods around the world.

I hope that American cars are getting better and maybe Obama and company will hold the Big 3 to making more economical, greener, and more reliable cars, though this may take some time. I still have hope in American cars even though most Japanese, Korean, and European cars are made better.

One day, one of the big 3 are going to make something every bit as good as the Prius, but it's not a matter of if, but when. And for those of you who live in Asia, buy Asian cars, and in Europe, buy European just so everyone could boost their own local economies and not ship stuff around large distances as much. And if you are in the states and absolutely have to buy a foreign car, buy one from a used dealership near your home so you can put the money into your local economy.

Of course, for certain things, like RAM for my Mac, the likelihood of it being from Taiwan, RAM capitol of the world, is more than great. :)

[Digital Skunk]

I try my best not to buy from Euro-centric countries/companies/corporations/etc.

Unless it will undoubtedly kill me or make me sick (like food and water and medicine) I will buy it from somewhere else.

No, it doesn't really matter.

[.Andy]

Made in America isn't important to me. I'll buy it if it's of good quality and value, which is largely a function of my own perception and subjectivity.

[heatmiser]

Nope. It's about as meaningless a slogan as Support The Troops.

[sushi]

It's definitely worth buying the better product.
Completely agree there.

I've bought cheap clothing in market-stalls and those items barely lasted a month much less a year, while other items that seemed pricey are nearly indestructible.

That's been true with coats, boots, backpacks, and other items.
Isn't that the truth.

Reminds me of a funny story that happened many years ago. I was stationed in Korea. The in thing was to get tailor made suits. The problem was that the Koreas used low quality thread and liners. Well, I decided to give my tailor some thread, and pay extra for the better liner material.

When we received our suits, most were paying around $80 for a three piece. Mine on the other hand was around $140. Many made fun of me at the time.

But I had the last laugh. About 8-9 months later, the el-Cheap-o suits started falling apart as in sleeves and pockets coming off. Many seams were failing. My suit on the other hand, looked good as new and lasted a very long time.

What's really fun is to find the weird exceptions, where the el-cheap-o item outlasts and outperforms the pricey items, but these are rare.
One of the interesting ironies in today's world. :)

I know in a complex item, such as my beloved Fender Stratocaster, which was the topic of a major grad school paper I did, and floated around as my master's thesis possibility, is made from wood from Canada, the Philippines, and India.
<Snip - Interesting Fender info>
So where is a Fender made? :p

Bud might be owned by a company outside of America, but it is very much Made in America...
That's an interesting comment, which brings me to the question:

What is American made?

IMHO, a Toyota made in the US is American made. However, the parent company is outside of the US. Others would say that the company, all subcomponents, labor and such must be in the US.

These days it is a bit convoluted.

I would rather buy safe products. I don't want any crap in my food or lead in toys.
Different countries have different standards, that much is certain.

Laws don't guarantee quality, unfortunately.

[mysterytramp]

As the former owner of a lemon Honda and a lemon Toyota, I've stuck by American cars since. I've had two Saturns, both have been great.

I try to buy American, but it's definitely hard. It used to be that you could find lots of American-made garments in the Lands' End catalog. Now, not so much. I do worry about products from China ... too many reports of what has infiltrated their plastic, dog food and children's cough syrup.

And BTW, there are still guitars made in the U.S.A. Paul Reed Smith for one. And I thought Dean was making guitars in the U.S. but I can't find the site of their manufacturing plant.

mt

[iVeBeenDrinkin']

SABMiller, the company that owns the MillerCoors brand is based in South Africa. So um... yeah, you're supporting an American company.

Wait for it.....


Not!

Miller is brewed and bottled by union workers in Milwaukee.

[63dot]

So where is a Fender made? :p



If you take every component, then at least ten countries for, let's say a Ritchie Sambora Fender Stratocaster signature strat.

One model, listed as being from America, has East asian wood on the fingerboard (one country), Canadian maple on the neck (two countries), an American (New Jersey) designer who is in Bon Jovi (three countries, wait I would say four because Jersey is a country onto itself), a tremolo from Germany (five countries), electronics from the USA , mentioned above, and Taiwan and China (six and seven countries), tuners most likely from Japan on higher end model (as USA Klusons are not in the mix these days, and from South Korea Ping contract tuners on lower end Sambora models (eighth and ninth countries), and definitely body blanks on the low end models, and some later high end models from Ensenada, Mexico (10th country). OK, nine countries since New Jersey is barely, just barely from the USA. :)

Paul Reed Smith guitars, the ones built here have both Honduras mahogany and Philippine mahogany, both great woods, but not from here. Hard rock, top of the line, Canadian maple on some necks. Fretboards with woods from India and Brazil. And on some very nice models, African ebony. The lower end PRS guitars, still amazing, are built in South Korea including the very well received Santana "PRS" model. The Santana "Mexican flag" model is built in the US as is his anniversary model. But not all woods, or electronics are from the US on virtually any US guitar.

If a guitar used a signature American wood, like hickory, white oak, or acacia for the body, and used American maple for the fretboard/neck, and only used the more expensive, hard to find pots and electronics made in the USA, it is conceivable that a maker could have a completely all USA guitar from USA components. These days, pots and electronics from here that are suitable for guitars is extremely hard to find, but there is the internet. If you wanted a double locking bridge, you can bypass the better German Floyd Rose unit and use the less effective, but all American made Kahler double locking unit.

Actually, I prefer the less effective American Kahler trem to the more effective German Floyd Rose or the Japanese and South Korean Edge, Edge II, and Edge III trems. While the Kahler does not get the sustain of the German or Asian trems, it has a warmer tone which works well with passive pickups and extraordinarily well with active pickups, which tend to be cold from the outset despite their massive power.

[63dot]

And BTW, there are still guitars made in the U.S.A. Paul Reed Smith for one. And I thought Dean was making guitars in the U.S. but I can't find the site of their manufacturing plant.

mt

Dean has USA and east Asian made guitars, all very good. Dimebag used models from both regions but buying any of his guitars won't make most of us play as well as him. :)

[63dot]

I know this American car has detractors, but Chrysler/Dodge Viper is too cool for words. And along with the Acura NSX, they trump the legendary Porsche 911 and many Italian supermodel, sexy cars.

Dollar for dollar, the Viper may be the highest performing car of its decade.

[garybUK]

I think you should support the area of the planet you come from :)

I, from Europe, try to buy products from the EU

Nokia Phone,
Audi Car,
Philips TV's
Archos PMP
Philips/Siemens PC's
British hifi: Arcam, B&W etc. etc.
Apart from my Mac's they are from China but designed by a brit :D

oh my sisters HP laptop was built in China iirc but designed in the USA :)

[synth3tik]

I know this American car has detractors, but Chrysler/Dodge Viper is too cool for words. And along with the Acura NSX, they trump the legendary Porsche 911 and many Italian supermodel, sexy cars.

Dollar for dollar, the Viper may be the highest performing car of its decade.

The Dodge Viper has the handling of a dead horse. Fact is Americans may have helped pioneer the automobile and started the assembly line, but American auto companies don't know how to make good cars. If American cars were better there would be no need for Toyota to open up assembly plants in the US.


I personally get whatever I can from local ma and pa stores. I like to buy what I can as close to home as I can, but things like cars, you have to get what was built to last. American autos just don't do it for me.

[takao]

I know this American car has detractors, but Chrysler/Dodge Viper is too cool for words. And along with the Acura NSX, they trump the legendary Porsche 911 and many Italian supermodel, sexy cars.

Dollar for dollar, the Viper may be the highest performing car of its decade.

the difference is that the 911 is power by a 6 cylinder 3.6/3.8 liter engine and can be driven every day to work if you want

the viper is driven by 8.3 liter V10 and can barley be faster than a 911 .. in a straight line


and let's not get into sales .. because that would be to depressing for the viper

[garybUK]

but.. but... but... a 67 Shelby Mustang ..... :eek: my DREAM car!!

[Desertrat]

For all that I don't care much for cars as large as the Viper, I notice they run in front of Porsches and Ferraris in the GT series races I've seen televised from England. :)

Toyta, Honda and BMW don't have assembly plants here because they're needed; the plants are here to supply a marketplace demand. FWIW, (I don't remember if it were in a consumer magazine or such as Car&Driver) Hondas assembled in the U.S. have fewer warranty claims than those from Japan.

For poor-people third-owners, US-made cars are less expensive to maintain. Old joke: "Those wear out too quick!" "Yeah, but they last longer after they're wornout."

[Unspeaked]

I steer well clear of products with "made in the USA" on them because they are likely extremely expensive (paying for brand names) or won't work properly.

How many name brands are made in America?


SABMiller, the company that owns the MillerCoors brand is based in South Africa. So um... yeah, you're supporting an American company.

Wait for it.....


Not!

I thought we established that there's a difference between "made" and "owned by a company from"...?

[Beric]

Quality. I couldn't care less where it's made.

[Unspeaked]

So do all the people saying they don't care where it's made, only about the quality, think that where something is made has no correlation to quality?

[és:]

So do all the people saying they don't care where it's made, only about the quality, think that where something is made has no correlation to quality?

Only in the sense that some places have poor quality control. Just because something comes from a particular place it doesn't mean it is good or bad.

[Unspeaked]

Only in the sense that some places have poor quality control. Just because something comes from a particular place it doesn't mean it is good or bad.

I don't think it's always the case, but if I had little else to go on, I'd certainly choose electronics made in Japan over something similar from Taiwan or an automobile made in Germany over one made in Mexico.

I realize that some electronics made in Taiwan would outperform those made in Japan and some automobiles manufactured in Mexico would outperform those made in Germany, but as a means of measure, I think there's a little but of a (thin) line that can be drawn between product quality and origin.

[és:]

I don't think it's always the case, but if I had little else to go on, I'd certainly choose electronics made in Japan over something similar from Taiwan or an automobile made in Germany over one made in Mexico.

I realize that some electronics made in Taiwan would outperform those made in Japan and some automobiles manufactured in Mexico would outperform those made in Germany, but as a means of measure, I think there's a little but of a (thin) line that can be drawn between product quality and origin.

That is what caring about quality is all about - if you care about quality, buying cheap electronics made by a half arsed company in Taiwan isn't going to get the results.

What I'm saying is that quality is quality, no matter where it comes from.

[63dot]

Only in the sense that some places have poor quality control. Just because something comes from a particular place it doesn't mean it is good or bad.

There are some fields where made in America is not considered the top product.

HIGH END WALKERS:

But still, I am willing to buy a product just above average, if it's local, vs. a clearly way above average product made elsewhere.

I am OK with a $99 dollar pair of high quality New Balance walking shoes made in the USA even though I love my European walking shoes (when I experimented on having one premium pair of shoes) which cost almost $200 dollars. The perception around high end shoes is that the European ones, like Ecco, are better than anything American. When I bought the Ecco, I realized I would have been just as happy with two American made pairs of almost similar quality for $100 a pair. Hindsight is 20-20. :)

On every level the Ecco walking shoes from Europe are great, but the New Balance USA walking shoes for half that price are not bad in their own right. When the Ecco shoes wear out and I want another pair that will last a long time, I will go for the New Balance USA shoes, and while rated an 8 instead of a 10, they are plenty fine for my feet. And for value, at $100 dollars and probably lasting four years like my old American made Rockports many years ago, I don't feel a need to get the Ecco's for $200 or the top of the line European Mephistos for $300 dollars that I saw in the boutique store.

CARS:

I have been wary of American cars believing for a long time that American quality in cars suffered, but the latest Washington bailout will help guarantee smaller cars, more efficient cars, and better designs. Cars in the USA will hopefully catch up with likes of Mercedes, Volvo, and Lexus. When I say this people think I am crazy, but I am hopeful that Obama will hold the car makers here to a high standard since it's our tax money bailing out the US auto makers. If the cars don't improve quickly enough, it will be under his watch and hurt his chances for a second term in office.

Musical Amplification:

There is no doubt that from off the shelf products, the best guitar and bass amplifiers made in factories come from England (Marshall, Laney, Trace Elliot, and a few others) in the $500 to $1500 dollar price range. But the only reason I use Marshalls is that they belong to the drummer in my band. But if I had to go for a nice "large amp", I could get a good sound from an American Carvin half stack amplifier. It doesn't have the "history" or the "image", but what I care about is the sound and the Carvin is similar.

[quagmire]

I

Dollar for dollar, the Viper may be the highest performing car of its decade.

Bah, the Corvette line and GT-R takes the cake there.

[63dot]

Bah, the Corvette line and GT-R takes the cake there.

I know Corvette, but never heard of GT-R. But Corvette and Viper are both far better deals for the buck than the McLaren I see this guy driving around town. Yes, I am sure the McLaren could outperform both the Viper and the Corvette at Laguna Seca at super high speeds, but who needs to go that fast anyway and handle those turns like an F1?

EDIT: Ok, I checked the internet, and yes, the GT-R is nice but with a base price of $76K, I think a $46K base price Corvette is much more affordable and enough muscle for just about anybody. And the McLaren made in the UK, well that's almost $500K for their street looking model housed in a rather normal looking Mercedes, and $1.5 million for their track model (which approaches an Italian sportscar look of their own design which is a cross between a Ferrari and James Bond's Lotus) which is nearly up to F1 specs used for racing.

I would like to see Detroit make a small, hybrid mini-van, for my practical purposes. :)

[yojitani]

Depends on the item. For the most part, the only time I make a conscious effort to find out where an item is from it is when I am shopping for food. I prefer local, but when that's not possible, I look for whatever is closest by and tend to avoid stuff from Mexico and China. The product that bothers me most is bananas. I avoid supporting union busting and other thug-like activities, so either get fair trade bananas or no bananas at all. Same for coffee.

I don't buy American cars - not that I buy many cars - but that's because my wife refuses to even contemplate them (she's Japanese).

I'd be much more inclined to buy a product that was made by unionized workers anywhere rather than some abstract notion about being 'made in America.'

Edit: Totally agree about amps. I dream of owning a Polytone one day.

[Erwin-Br]

I would love to have a 2008 Ford Mustang, but I guess that's because you don't see them that much in Europe. The European Fords are considered as quite good cars, by the way.

[és:]

There are some fields where made in America is not considered the top product.

Some!

That's sort of my argument though.

[sangosimo]

made in [insert blank] is not important to me at all.

[fivepoint]

All things being equal, I believe in the global economy and the free market. In my opinion, insinuations that "not buying American" and "supporting the American economy" are mutually exclusive events are patently false. I believe that the best way to strengthen the American and world economy is to buy the best quality/value proposition possible, from whoever the provider of that product/service is.

This, however, is clouded by variable tax rates, tariff rates, and government subsidies.

[quagmire]

I know Corvette, but never heard of GT-R. But Corvette and Viper are both far better deals for the buck than the McLaren I see this guy driving around town. Yes, I am sure the McLaren could outperform both the Viper and the Corvette at Laguna Seca at super high speeds, but who needs to go that fast anyway and handle those turns like an F1?

EDIT: Ok, I checked the internet, and yes, the GT-R is nice but with a base price of $76K, I think a $46K base price Corvette is much more affordable and enough muscle for just about anybody. And the McLaren made in the UK, well that's almost $500K for their street looking model housed in a rather normal looking Mercedes, and $1.5 million for their track model (which approaches an Italian sportscar look of their own design which is a cross between a Ferrari and James Bond's Lotus) which is nearly up to F1 specs used for racing.

I would like to see Detroit make a small, hybrid mini-van, for my practical purposes. :)

The Viper is $88K, so talking about the GT-R is fair game as with the Z06 and ZR1. The performance of the GT-R is amazing and still swear that that engine is underrated. No way a 3800 lb vehicle even with AWD can perform the way it does with just 485 HP. But, that is for another discussion. :p

[Cromulent]

I did too, at one time thus the reason I bought a Chinese made guitar for $370 instead of similar quality guitar from Mexico for $600 dollars or a Canadian one for $700 dollars. The US counterpart was $1200 so it was not in the loop.

But I wasn't thinking about how this could impact the recession economy we are in. I should have bought USA or from NAFTA partners Canada and Mexico.

I thought America and Americans themselves were all for free trade. How is trade free if people have misguided nationalistic tendencies?

You buy the best quality goods at the best price. Country has nothing to do with it. In a world of free trade nations are an obsolete concept.

[quagmire]

I thought America and Americans themselves were all for free trade. How is trade free if people have misguided nationalistic tendencies?

You buy the best quality goods at the best price. Country has nothing to do with it. In a world of free trade nations are an obsolete concept.

And that is why free trade won't work until the nations unite under one. You can see what it is doing to the US as it is destroying American industry. So if the possibility of going to war with these countries happens, how will the US be able to sustain itself if we rely on foreign products for the majority of our goods?

[63dot]

And that is why free trade won't work until the nations unite under one. You can see what it is doing to the US as it is destroying American industry. So if the possibility of going to war with these countries happens, how will the US be able to sustain itself if we rely on foreign products for the majority of our goods?

If the US goes to war with China, we will have to ask them for a few billion tons of steel, rubber, dynamite, and borrow a few hundred thousand of their soldiers...but you know, get a discounted price on that transaction ;)

When I was in high school, I had a great civics teacher who didn't want to teach out of the high school textbook, but from college ones. He was a frustrated college professor who got stuck in a much better paying job in K-12 administration but probably wished he could have taught poli sci in college/grad school. The local college here pays mostly adjuncts, and when I was offered a job, it was $210 dollars a week in 1995. Screw that, and that's what the HS civics teacher said, too. :)

We had a great lesson on supply and demand economics and how war was never how it seemed. The United States, for instance, never stopped selling aluminum to the Empire of Japan throughout the 1930s and 1940s. It was FDR's little secret, among others. We needed the cash for other things. Japan had the rubber, and guess what?

At a certain point, the US, Germany, and Japan knew that a world war could not sustain itself forever and that trade must go on. There was a lot of funny money dealings in a little known area/theater in world war II called the China Burma India theater.

Modernly, there is ample evidence that the US supported Noreiga in Panama and Saddam Hussein in Iraq knowing fully what those leaders, some say dictators, were capable of. It's not as if all of a sudden the US discovered they violated human rights. The US will, and has done business with everybody and that will not change. Money talks, BS walks, every time.

I still think buying locally does help, but maybe I am a dreamer thinking that will help any. I just live in a scantily populated area that used to be mom and pop stores and have seen great numbers of people move out. When I was born in my home town, it had nearly 5,000 people, now it has 1,800 people. Many locals have moved to the big cities. Some thriving towns in my region have literally dissipated into nothing and a few of them have nobody there, or under 50 people.

[nickspohn]

When it comes to cars it matters for me.

[synth3tik]

I don't think it's always the case, but if I had little else to go on, I'd certainly choose electronics made in Japan over something similar from Taiwan or an automobile made in Germany over one made in Mexico.

I realize that some electronics made in Taiwan would outperform those made in Japan and some automobiles manufactured in Mexico would outperform those made in Germany, but as a means of measure, I think there's a little but of a (thin) line that can be drawn between product quality and origin.


I think at that point your really looking a name brand more then anything. I mean Japanese vs. Taiwanese cars. That's Mitsubishi vs. Daewoo. That's a long standing company vs. a company that builds microwaves.

Also take the VW bug. Compare the ones that were made in Germany to the ones made in Mexico.

Also, just because a product is designed in a particular country does not mean it was manufactured there. I.E. All Apple Laptops.

I do want to point out one product that I think got the best of both worlds. Growing up my family had a older 1983 Hitachi TV. It was designed in Japan but built in the US. I can safely say that the TV still works. That to me is a combination made in heaven.

[JW8725]

When it comes to cars it matters for me.

LOL! yeah I agree, American cars are whack.:p:p:p:p

[quagmire]

I think at that point your really looking a name brand more then anything. I mean Japanese vs. Taiwanese cars. That's Mitsubishi vs. Daewoo. That's a long standing company vs. a company that builds microwaves.

Daewoo is Korean( owned by GM).

[Unspeaked]

I do want to point out one product that I think got the best of both worlds. Growing up my family had a older 1983 Hitachi TV. It was designed in Japan but built in the US. I can safely say that the TV still works. That to me is a combination made in heaven.

Well, that leads to the different discussion: do they really not "make 'em like the used to?"

The stuff around our house when I was growing up seemed to rarely break, regardless of where it came from, whereas nowadays you're always seeing 30 day warranties, refurbished items galore, horror stories entire manufacturing runs that were recalled as faulty, etc..

[Cromulent]

Well, that leads to the different discussion: do they really not "make 'em like the used to?"

The stuff around our house when I was growing up seemed to rarely break, regardless of where it came from, whereas nowadays you're always seeing 30 day warranties, refurbished items galore, horror stories entire manufacturing runs that were recalled as faulty, etc..

That is because items have increased in complexity 100 fold if not more in the last 30 years or so. Less complex things are always going to be more reliable in the long run.

[63dot]

Daewoo is Korean( owned by GM).

Sure, that's the case now, but I wouldn't be surprised if other Asian companies like Toshiba, Sony, Hyundai, or Dae Woo ends up as a Chinese company? China has the capital to buyout such companies. Mr. flip-flop John McCain once suggested borrowing cash from China to pay off our entire deficit and pay them back slowly with interest.

Remember IBM laptops and desktops? Owned by a company in New York? Nope, they are Chinese owned (those two divisions) and now called Lenovo. IBM's printer division got sold off, but I don't know who to and they are Lexmark.

I was skeptical at first, but from what I have read, Lenovo is great, cough, I mean great for a, cough, PC. :)

But my Lexmark printer is amazing. That thing prints for miles, never has any glitches, and was $40 dollars with iBook purchase. Now that I semi-retired iBook, I use the Lexmark with mini-Mac, and before that, I used that Lexmark with dual-500 Power Mac. That printer has lived through three Macs. Print color? Not as good as Epson or HP, but those other two have broken like cheap toys over and over.