ibook G3/900 vs G4/800 Best Value?

[BFedrec]

OK... first posting here, been lurking for a bit. I'm guessin this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it in the last months worth of posts.

I've been saving up my pennies to get an iBook for the last few months. I'm a Unix Admin who runs Linux on one machine at home, Windows 2K on one, and have a long term loan of a G4/450 Powermac running OS X on one machine. I got HOOKED on OS X and iMovie, and am in need of a laptop to take with me and do web work and writing. Those are my MAIN needed functions for the laptop, both of which won't require too much machine to do, BUT I do want to run iMovie and do some editing. My budget is fairly tight, and while I WANT to get a G5 system for movie editing at home, I realize that the G6 will probably be out by the time I've got enough money saved up for it.... SO on to the POINT of the post.

I've got just about enough saved up to get a 12" G4/800 iBook, but now I'm being tempted by good deals on G3/900 iBooks. Micro-Center is running an ad for a G3/900 12" with combo drive for $799 or $699 if you get their branded Visa card... I'd be getting the G4 with an educational discount (homeschooling family that we are), and I'm trying to determine if it's worth the extra $300 to get a G4 iBook vs a G3.

The latest issue of MacWorld has them compared and while the G4 does better than the G3, it's not by a huge margin, and the $300 difference could go towards that firewire DVD Burner I'd like to get. The biggest difference in performance is in iMovie, and iTunes, and of course I'd have to spend a few extra bucks for iLife 04. So... anybody have experience with both the G3/900 12" and the G4/800 12" iBooks and have any advice on how much more the G4 is worth? Pardon my long-windedness

CharlesP

[BFedrec]

Forgot the OTHER spec I need in the laptop... a combo drive (both of these set-ups have them), so I can burn CD's AND so the family can watch movies when travelling.

CharlesP

[MacAztec]

699$ for a G3 900Mhz? I dont see how you can go wrong with that.

Sure, the G4 would be faster, and have a faster video card, along with Airport Extreme, and BlueTooth, and a slot loading drive, etc.

I dont know actually. See, if it were me, I would buy the G3 900Mhz. BUT that is ONLY because I have a pretty fast powermac at home that I would do all my CPU intensive stuff on.

The laptop would only be for surfing/chatting/typing docs/stuff like that.

[QCassidy352]

I'd go G4. The G3 is a very old chip now, and all of OS X, and the iapps in particular, has been at least partially optimized to take advantage of altivec. Basically, the G4 ibook has newer tech and will do much better with future software releases... I'd go with that.

[RexTheMacFan]

If you want to burn your movies to DVDs then you definitely want to get the G4 'cause it'll encode to MPEG-2 something like 5-6 times faster because of the added benefits of the Altivec unit. I have a 900mhz G3 iBook and wish I had waited an extra month to get it because I would have had a G4 and been able to encode movies on it. Hope this helps. :)

[BFedrec]

Rex that helps me a ton as I'm hoping to do just that... I've got two sons and I'd like to make all those home movies into DVDs. The Macworld testing shows the encoding with iMovie faster on the G4 but not THAT much faster... but it also looks like it's only exporting to quicktime for e-mail and not actual Mpeg2 for that test.

CharlesP

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by BFedrec
Rex that helps me a ton as I'm hoping to do just that... I've got two sons and I'd like to make all those home movies into DVDs. The Macworld testing shows the encoding with iMovie faster on the G4 but not THAT much faster... but it also looks like it's only exporting to quicktime for e-mail and not actual Mpeg2 for that test.

CharlesP

was the macworld test encoding within imovie... or burning to a DVD? The G3 will be slower but still quite workable within imovie. Burning that movie to DVD is a different story, and if that's what you want to do, it would be a *big* mistake to go with a G3.

[BFedrec]

based on what I can tell from the article and on their site it looks like it's within iMovie. I knew that the G4 was supposed to give big gains over the G3 in the video editing field, but wasn't finding the comparison in that article to show that. Their measurement wasn't of the whole process so not as indicative (and I think their main point with it all was to compare the G4s and the powerbook more than the old iBook so they didn't explain that much).

CharlesP

[IndyGopher]

Originally posted by BFedrec
based on what I can tell from the article and on their site it looks like it's within iMovie. I knew that the G4 was supposed to give big gains over the G3 in the video editing field, but wasn't finding the comparison in that article to show that. Their measurement wasn't of the whole process so not as indicative (and I think their main point with it all was to compare the G4s and the powerbook more than the old iBook so they didn't explain that much).

CharlesP
Remember that before iLife04, you had to have an INTERNAL superdrive to even run iDVD. That's why you aren't finding any comparisons with DVD encoding on an iBook.. Apple's software to do the encoding just plain wouldn't run on a G3. Come to think of it, I don't know if it will even now.. I know you can run iDVD04 on a G4 iBook, since it doesn't require a superdrive anymore, but I don't know if it still checks to see if it's a G4. If that is the case, then there is no decision to make.. you have to get the G4 iBook.

[loubapache]

CharlesP:

I am in the same situation and cannot decide.

I did see the Micro Center $799 price with $100 rebate if you get their Visa card. However, one has to go to their store to do it. The Apple Education store also has the G3 900 MHz for $799.

The G4 does come with an extra 128 MB chip but most would upgrade by using a 512 MB chip so the 128 MB is wasted anyway.

For me, I just want to get a Mac to taste OS X. If I like it, I will get a Powerbook and give the iBook to my daughter. I have three other fairly powerful Windows desktops and laptop. The main reason I want to try OS X and some Mac software is that I downloaded a Windows version of iTunes and liked it. I have actually already purchased Microsoft Office for OS X from the university I work for $10 before I even get a Mac.

Good luck on your decision and please let us know.

Bo

[caveman_uk]

I have a G3 ibook and whilst it's a perfectly fine machine I'd go with a G4 if I were you. Apart from the current advantages of a G4 i feel that Apple will start to make more of their software G4 and above only as they now only sell G4 and above machines.

The G4 ibook also has USB2 and airport extreme. The USB2 in particular is useful if you don't want to watch your scanner crawl...

[invaLPsion]

I couldn't find the exact Macworld or Macaddit I found it in but I do know for a fact that the 900MHz G3 iBook compared to and actually beat the old 867 MHZ 12 inch powerbook in tests such as rendering and graphics. For $300 cheaper, you can't go wrong with the iBook. (It will allow you to have more money for that powermac;) )

[CmdrLaForge]

Hi,

I have an iBook G3 900 MHz and I am doing both task you mentioned with it. Editing videos with iMovie and creating some web sites.

Well, for me it works fast enough. The good thing about iMovie is, that you can start rendering or apply rendering to a clip and it will render in the background while you can go ahead working on the next and you don't have to wait until all rendering has finished.

I would suggest the G3. Max out the RAM.

[loubapache]

I am not sure if this is an appropriate question but I'll try.

In terms of general and pure processing power, how fast is the G3 900 MHz in comparison to the Intel Pentium processors? Something like a P-III 900 MHz?

Bo

[invaLPsion]

Originally posted by loubapache
I am not sure if this is an appropriate question but I'll try.

In terms of general and pure processing power, how fast is the G3 900 MHz in comparison to the Intel Pentium processors? Something like a P-III 900 MHz?

Bo

Hell no. I don't think it is possible to compare those chips but I am sure that a G3 900 is way faster than a 900 P3. If you want proof, I have a consumer reports right here that gives the 700 MHz iBook a top rating in application speed. It outperforms a 1.1 GHz P3 laptop in that rating.

[loubapache]

Thanks, invaLPsion.

Which issue of Consumers Report is it in?

Bo

[invaLPsion]

Originally posted by loubapache
Thanks, invaLPsion.

Which issue of Consumers Report is it in?

Bo

To tell you the truth, my first post was from memory and it was wrong.

I just found the consumer reports and it pits the 900MHz G3 iBook against a host of other PC laptops and even the 867MHz powerbook. The 900MHz iBook did receive a top rating in speed as did the 867Mhz powerbook.

The only PC laptop to receive a top performance rating in speed was the 1.4 Ghz centrino. The iBook beat out other PC laptops wth over 2GHz processors!:eek::)

The consumer reports is from September 2003.

[gwuMACaddict]

g4... my friend had the old g3, then just got the new g4... what a WORLD of difference. everything runs so much more smoothly... and you can use ichat and the isight with the g4 :D

[IndyGopher]

Originally posted by invaLPsion
I couldn't find the exact Macworld or Macaddit I found it in but I do know for a fact that the 900MHz G3 iBook compared to and actually beat the old 867 MHZ 12 inch powerbook in tests such as rendering and graphics. For $300 cheaper, you can't go wrong with the iBook. (It will allow you to have more money for that powermac;) )
Re-read the first post.. both machines are iBooks, he's asking whether the new G4 iBook is better suited to his tasks, which includes burning DVD's, than the old G3 iBook. While the last G3 iBooks did indeed have better graphics chips (GPUs) than the 867 PowerBook, this is not the case with the G3 900 vs G4 800 iBooks.

[tiktokfx]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain that if you get the G3 iBook you're going to be getting the software that came at that point, ie... Jaguar.

A new G4 iBook would include Panther and iLife '04.

That's about $180 in software right there.

[invaLPsion]

Originally posted by IndyGopher
Re-read the first post.. both machines are iBooks, he's asking whether the new G4 iBook is better suited to his tasks, which includes burning DVD's, than the old G3 iBook. While the last G3 iBooks did indeed have better graphics chips (GPUs) than the 867 PowerBook, this is not the case with the G3 900 vs G4 800 iBooks.

First of all, I was just trying to offer some helpful insights in terms of processor speeds (G3 vs G4).
Second of all, I'm not so sure that a Geforce42go was that much worse than a radeon 7500 mobility.

[invaLPsion]

Originally posted by tiktokfx
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain that if you get the G3 iBook you're going to be getting the software that came at that point, ie... Jaguar.

A new G4 iBook would include Panther and iLife '04.

That's about $180 in software right there.

Very good point.;)

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
I have a G3 ibook and whilst it's a perfectly fine machine I'd go with a G4 if I were you. Apart from the current advantages of a G4 i feel that Apple will start to make more of their software G4 and above only as they now only sell G4 and above machines.
The G4 ibook also has USB2 and airport extreme. The USB2 in particular is useful if you don't want to watch your scanner crawl... I have had my G3 iBook 700MHz since July 2002, and I love it dearly, so much so, I just replaced the petty 128MB chip with a 512MB PC133 ...zoom!
Hey, I don't spend $125 on anything I don't love and want to keep.
But, my iBook's Sony ComboDrive CD burner is going sour so instead of replacing it at $269
I got a $249 external firewire LaCie d2 8x DVD/CD±R/RW SuperDrive with full version of Roxio Toast 6 ($99 savings) included FREE. (Besides, even a PowerBook SuperDrive only writes at 2x DVD; I have an 8x burner!)

ADVICE:
do not get a G3, it is so 2002 - this is 2004 people!
Why go backwards? Are we not looking forward to G5 PowerBooks? See the point?
Just about every G3 iBook owner who has touched a G4 iBook at an Apple Store turns green with envy, the G4 is a very significant upgrade and includes AltiVec.
That's why all the retailers are 'giving away' G3s at low low prices...they gotta get rid of them. Sure it's a deal, just think - why?

GET the G4 and if you are doing editing consider the 14.1" above the tiny 12" screen

GET the 933MHz G4 for BEST VALUE over the 1GHz because the extra 77MHz is not worth paying $200 more
$1,299.00
933MHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache @ 933MHz
14-inch TFT Display (almost a 15 like PB)
1024x768 resolution
256MB DDR266 SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive (GET an external FW 8x SuperDrive later)
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200
32MB DDR video memory
Includes:
Panther OS 10.3.2 (SAVE $130)
iLife 2004 (SAVE $50) including iDVD !!!
2 USB 2.0 ports (not available on G3)

Your true Dilemma: 12" or 14"? only $200 apart ($1099 vs. $1299)
What's the Difference: 133MHz more CPU speed, 10GB more HD, and 2" in LCD screen
Just be sure it's a G4

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by IndyGopher
Re-read the first post.. both machines are iBooks, he's asking whether the new G4 iBook is better suited to his tasks, which includes burning DVD's, than the old G3 iBook. While the last G3 iBooks did indeed have better graphics chips (GPUs) than the 867 PowerBook, this is not the case with the G3 900 vs G4 800 iBooks.
The point is that the G4 iBook 800 is near enough the same spec as the 867 PowerBook 12" Rev A, thus you can compare them. The 7500 Radeon of the iBook G3 is not as good as the 420 Go of the Rev A PB. The new G4 iBooks and 12" PowerBooks have much better graphics cards than either of those.

I would say, go G4. You could go with the 14" but then you might as well get the 12" PowerBook. The original poster was on a budget so I think the G4 12" iBook is the better option.

As already mentioned, Apple will be phasing out G3 support (not so that they can't run apps, but run them reasonably). There are more advances in the newest G4s over the G3s than meets the eye. Alti-vec is getting far more important, and the new iBooks have USB2, Airport Extreme, etc. Note that you need a G4 to run GarageBand decently (and it will come with your G4 Mac) and to use iChat AV to its full advantage.

[phrancpharmD]

Originally posted by MacRAND
Just about every G3 iBook owner who has touched a G4 iBook at an Apple Store turns green with envy

Guilty as charged! I had my sights set on a 15" PowerBook but couldn't quite get there yet, but within a week and a half of my first serious tryout of the G4 iBook at the Apple Store, I had sold my 600MHz 12" G3 iBook and bought the 933MHz 14" G4 iBook and am VERY happy so far.

Your true Dilemma: 12" or 14"? only $200 apart ($1099 vs. $1299)
What's the Difference: 133MHz more CPU speed, 10GB more HD, and 2" in LCD screen
Just be sure it's a G4

The larger screen alone was justification enough for the price difference for me - my G3 iBook was a 12" and the G4 is a 14" and there is no comparison. . .

[dbauer]

Originally posted by tiktokfx
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain that if you get the G3 iBook you're going to be getting the software that came at that point, ie... Jaguar.

A new G4 iBook would include Panther and iLife '04.

That's about $180 in software right there.

Actually, I just purchased the G3 iBook 900 from MicroCenter last Sunday and even though it is loaded with the old apps, the Panther disks were in the box. You also are eligible to receive iLife '04 for $20 with the up-to-date program, so you're safe from the software end.

As for the decision on which iBook to go with, it was a no brainer for me. The laptop is used by my wife for internet, iPhoto, e-mail, iMovie, and everything else that you use a Mac for. Just because it has an older processor doesn't make it useless. In your sitution, you already have PowerMac G4/450 sitting around, why not use that for the DVD burning. If the claims that the G4 is 5-6x faster than the G3, give it a test. The 450 should be able to scream past the G3/900. If it doesn't, upgrade the 450 processor with an faster one. The laptop will never be able to outperform the PowerMac because the PM is upgradeable. The iBook is not a good canidate for working with DVD's because of the slow (4200RPM) and small hard drive. Remember that 1 hour of DV video is 10gig. The iBook only comes with a 40 gig drive so you can only get 3 hours on it unless you go with an external drive which will blow your budget out of the water. Also, the iBook maxxes out at 640 meg of RAM. With OS 10.3 and iPhoto open with about 1400 pictures, I am using around 580meg. Just imagine working with a large amount of DV film and having to cache your editing to a slowwww hard drive.

I did luck out in my purchase though, it seems that MicroCenter purchased a lot of iBook's that were custom configured by Apple for a customer that cancelled their order when the new G4 models were released and didn't mark the upgraded models' boxes. My iBook came with an Airport card and 640mb of memory, free. MicroCenter doesn't know which ones are already upgraded so if you buy one, you may get yourself a maxxed out iBook for $800!

Good luck.

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by dbauer
The iBook is not a good canidate for working with DVD's because of the slow (4200RPM) and small hard drive. Remember that 1 hour of DV video is 10gig. The iBook only comes with a 40 gig drive so you can only get 3 hours on it unless you go with an external drive which will blow your budget out of the water. Also, the iBook maxxes out at 640 meg of RAM. With OS 10.3 and iPhoto open with about 1400 pictures, I am using around 580meg. Just imagine working with a large amount of DV film and having to cache your editing to a slowwww hard drive.
I've found that my 1GHz G4 PowerBook 12" screams through MPEG2 encoding with not a problem due to my 4200rpm hard drive. (GarageBand is the ONLY app that's run into the odd speed issue with the HD speed). Regarding iPhoto and the RAM issue, OS X is designed to use as much of your available RAM as possible so the amount an app uses does not reflect the minimum RAM required, just think of it as using your RAM efficiently in any way it can.

I still say to go with G4 because it's best to have a processor that Apple currently sells (and it'll be a good year or two until everything moves to G5) and alti-vec is increasingly used in everything. USB2 and faster Airport are bonuses too, as is faster RAM and better graphics card. The keyboard on the G4 iBooks is much nicer too.

[BFedrec]

Well... after reading all the replies... I'm leaning towards the G4. I'm going to get an firewire hard drive AND a dvd burner eventually, so I can use with both PC and Mac. The old G4 Powermac is on a loan so I won't be able to use it for DVD stuff... especially once I get the ibook (my dad wants his toy back).
the 14" screen isn't an option as I really WANT the 12", I hate the prospect of lugging around anything bigger than I have to. One of the biggest draws for me is the smaller size while still being able to DO stuff on it. I'll reply more later... taking care of the baby right now :D.

CharlesP

[BFedrec]

Oh... and like the one poster said... the G3 variant does have Panther and I could get iLife cheap.... But Garageband being functional would be NICE.

I won't be doing a TON of video editing, but it is one of my reasons for getting an Apple vs just an old x86 laptop and running linux on it.

I've never used a G3 to know to compare it, I've used the G4/450 I've got here (I think the 21" monitor I'm borrowing with it has spoiled me more than the G4), and a friends 15" G4/800 Ti-Book. I've enjoyed both of them, but the 450 does lag a little bit when editing.

My time on the machine will be about 40% writing, 40% web work, 15% video editing... and 5% misc stuff.

CharlesP

[loubapache]

dbauer:

You got a good deal. The RAM and airport card alone are worth a couple hundred.

Please let us know how you like the G3 900MHz.

Bo

[iPC]

i am posting this from a g3 800 ibook.

there is no way you can compare the g3 to the g4 ibook. just looking at the xbench scores (50-something versus 100+) is enough to tell me that i want to trade up, NOW. :-/

just opening 3 or 4 apps at the same time is enough to make me wish for the g4.

[bennyek]

I would say go for the G4 ibook But then again I am trying to sell mine to get a G5.
Please don't blast me for posting this link to my ebay auction.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2789987101&category=4602&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT&rd=1

[mrBallistic]

here's the main difference that i see between the two machines - monitor spanning.

i have a pismo that i'm about to sell off to replace with a new tiBook. i looked at the ibooks, but they don't let me slave the display off as a palette monitor while i use a larger crt for my work.... which is a deal-killer.

if you're looking at the 12" models, then you'll wish to think about this. it's nice to be able to use your laptop as a laptop for basic things, but, when you're doing task-based work - like creating a dvd or editing video - you'll long for more desk space. 1024x768 just won't cut it.

keep in mind that those tasks are ram hogs. if you're looking for performance, then checking out the top-outs on ram is important as well. the 12" tibook only has room for a single stick of ram, and i fear that the ibook has a similar limitation. limiting yourself to 768megs isn't the end of the world, but you'll find yourself wishing that you had more later on, i fear.

anyway, i'm always one to go for the more powerful tech when i'm putting down that sort of money, so i'd go for the g4.

good luck!

t

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by mrBallistic
here's the main difference that i see between the two machines - monitor spanning.

i have a pismo that i'm about to sell off to replace with a new tiBook. i looked at the ibooks, but they don't let me slave the display off as a palette monitor while i use a larger crt for my work.... which is a deal-killer.

if you're looking at the 12" models, then you'll wish to think about this. it's nice to be able to use your laptop as a laptop for basic things, but, when you're doing task-based work - like creating a dvd or editing video - you'll long for more desk space. 1024x768 just won't cut it.

keep in mind that those tasks are ram hogs. if you're looking for performance, then checking out the top-outs on ram is important as well. the 12" tibook only has room for a single stick of ram, and i fear that the ibook has a similar limitation. limiting yourself to 768megs isn't the end of the world, but you'll find yourself wishing that you had more later on, i fear.

anyway, i'm always one to go for the more powerful tech when i'm putting down that sort of money, so i'd go for the g4.

good luck!

t
I guess you're meaning the 12" AlBook (PowerBook), not ti ;). Yes, the iBooks are limited to 640MB RAM and the 12" PB to 768 (unless you spend $300 on a 1GB module) but I have 768 and have never needed more. No beachballs with 12 apps open, and video editing is even a breeze.

All the iBooks have a display of 1024x768 (even the 14") so there's no advantage of getting the 14" apart from bigger sized (and less sharp) pixels. The iBooks cannot monitor span, period, but there is a firmware hack to do this if you need to. If you want true monitor spanning out of the box, you'll need a PowerBook (any model will do).

One last thing, consider the 12" PowerBook, as it is a more powerful ultraportable iBook. But the cost is a lot more. The iBooks are nice value right now, espc. the 12", and there is no better priced comparable PC laptop on the market.

[Adurbe]

I chose a 900 G3 for one thing it saved me lota money!

it runs a treat for me, no complaints

either one you chose you will grow to love...


p.s. not worry about jaguar as you can get the 'free' upgrade to panther from apple for £15

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by Adurbe
I chose a 900 G3 for one thing it saved me lota money!Adurbe, lots of us have G3 iBooks and they are perfectly fine machines.
In July 2002 I needed to have a "mobile" office inside a laptop to take with me on an extended vacation, and only 2 weeks to decide. I was not happy with Titanium G4 PowerBooks, and the G3 iBook suited my needs perfectly and, like you, I saved a ton of money.
I remain confident that the decision I made at that moment in time was a good one.
Sure I covet a G4 or G5 laptop, but this 14" iBook just keeps on truckin' along.
The single RAM slot had a 128MB memory chip in it, and I've always wondered if performance would increase significantly by swapping it out for a 512MB (max for my model)
Answer: significant results. The most noticeable improvement is that the Hard Drive doesn't constantly run in order to provide RAM disk space. This in turn extends the battery life because of less usage. At $124 now, it was a smart buy.
If I decide to keep my iBook, next I'll buy a much faster 7200rpm Hitachi/IBM 60GB Hard Drive, doubling my disc space and while significantly shortening data transfer and access time.
With the LaCie 2d external firewire SuperDrive, a Combo inside is just fine.
Besides, a 15" PowerBook is only 1" larger than a 14" iBook (let's not talk about all those other goodies a G4 PB or iBook has).

Though I may be loath to admit it, the current discounted price of new G3 iBooks is a very cost efficient laptop solution. After all, it is a Mac.