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MacRumors
Feb 21, 2004, 05:30 PM
Australian IT (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,8728989%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html) reports that Destra is adding up to 30,000 tracks from Sony Music over the coming months.

Of interest, the article states that the songs will be available in both WMA and AAC formats. It goes on to specifically state that it will be compatible with the iPod.

Reportedly there will be "protection from copyright violation" built in. It isn't clear if the service would be offering the same FairPlay/AAC ("Protected AAC") files that are presently offered in Apple's iTunes Music Store.

fatbarstard
Feb 21, 2004, 05:35 PM
Hopefully this will spur Apple into getting its ****** together to get iTMS licenced for Aust....

I can't wait - might have to actually go and buy an iPOD if this happens.....

crazzyeddie
Feb 21, 2004, 05:43 PM
So im assuming Destra is a aussie music service, because i've never heard of it...

punter
Feb 21, 2004, 05:54 PM
i think this is great for australian music downloaders. I don't feel I have to wait for itms to come to australia now, I WILL download from another service if they offer aac (and no subscription fee etc).

In other news, why does apple call it aac and not mp4? I always tell people I encode in mp4 and it doesn't take them too long to figure out it's like the new updated version of mp3!! And then normally I go on to rant about how bad wma is in terms of quality unless you use loseless compression. If they've listened to me then the obvious conclusion for them is to download itunes and start ripping in aac.

hvfsl
Feb 21, 2004, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by punter
i think this is great for australian music downloaders. I don't feel I have to wait for itms to come to australia now, I WILL download from another service if they offer aac (and no subscription fee etc).

In other news, why does apple call it aac and not mp4? I always tell people I encode in mp4 and it doesn't take them too long to figure out it's like the new updated version of mp3!! And then normally I go on to rant about how bad wma is in terms of quality unless you use loseless compression. If they've listened to me then the obvious conclusion for them is to download itunes and start ripping in aac.

Thats mainly because people call MP4 video already. MP3 is actually MPEG1 (or maybe 2) Layer 3.

johnnyjibbs
Feb 21, 2004, 06:07 PM
This is excellent news! I hope that other companies look at this and then start to consider it in Europe and America. And I hope Apple is more open about the 'open' standard they use - i.e. let people licence Fariplay. This is great news for the iPod.

Also, I think we are seeing (such as the HP annoucement as well) that people are seeing that the iPod is hard to beat. Hence more companies are choosing to 'join' it rather than try to compete against. This will help iPod stay up there and help AAC become a viable alternative to WMA. Apple should not concede on the WMA front.

HiRez
Feb 21, 2004, 06:26 PM
In related news, the upcoming Sony PSP (Playstation Portable) will supposedly support AAC audio. If it also supports FairPlay (and we could hop iTunes synching), that would be great for Apple because they are going to sell a lot of those things. I think Apple should work closely with anyone who wants to offer an AAC-enabled playback device, and find a way to sync to it from iTunes. In the case of the PSP, it's not really a direct competitor to the iPod, since it's a game machine first and a music player second. People are going to buy them regardless.

winmacguy
Feb 21, 2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by crazzyeddie
So im assuming Destra is a aussie music service, because i've never heard of it...

One of several Australian download services that have started recently ( Aussie only like iTMS is US only)

stefman
Feb 21, 2004, 06:31 PM
This is good news! At least it's not WMA only, which means Apple is gaining acceptance with AAC and hopefully not letting the 400 pound gorilla (Microsoft) win on file format standards.

DJY
Feb 21, 2004, 06:58 PM
Destra already provide online music downloading via several of our retail music providers websites...

in addition to that we have at least two other sources on online music download options that I'm aware of....

I went a wandering around... and despite the it news story - they don't mention anything about AAC on their websites yet.... and the news story hinted it might not be until mid year?!?!?

sigh

whilst I would certianly buy from ANY site that was reasonably prices, in AAC, without too many restricitve sign on costs.... I still wish Apple would do something.

I was thinking about this the other day.... Despite all rumours for Aust, Europe, Canada et al.... I don't think Apple have made any actual movements to providing iTMS beyond the USA - that they have made public?

So they get in first... in the biggest market... get themselves out of the red.... get huge market share... and now nothing?

Or maybe they don't care / don't want to / and are already moving towards their next big coup?!?!

I hope that fleeting thought of mine was wrong... and I still would love to click on the Music Store link in iTUNES one day and NOT get that country warning!!!!!

I can dream anyway

jholzner
Feb 21, 2004, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by DJY
Destra already provide online music downloading via several of our retail music providers websites...

in addition to that we have at least two other sources on online music download options that I'm aware of....

I went a wandering around... and despite the it news story - they don't mention anything about AAC on their websites yet.... and the news story hinted it might not be until mid year?!?!?

sigh

whilst I would certianly buy from ANY site that was reasonably prices, in AAC, without too many restricitve sign on costs.... I still wish Apple would do something.

I was thinking about this the other day.... Despite all rumours for Aust, Europe, Canada et al.... I don't think Apple have made any actual movements to providing iTMS beyond the USA - that they have made public?

So they get in first... in the biggest market... get themselves out of the red.... get huge market share... and now nothing?

Or maybe they don't care / don't want to / and are already moving towards their next big coup?!?!

I hope that fleeting thought of mine was wrong... and I still would love to click on the Music Store link in iTUNES one day and NOT get that country warning!!!!!

I can dream anyway

Well, they did say they would be bringing it to Japan very soon...I can't remember what month steve said but he accounced it at the opening of the Apple Store in Japan

curmi
Feb 21, 2004, 07:29 PM
I think Apple may have blown it in Australia on the iTMS.

Too many people have set up their own - including Australia's biggest ISP Telstra. Apple took too long, and gave no indication they were even doing anything so as to scare off the opposition. Now, if they ever do get their act together, they will be seen as late, and just copying the others.

It serves them right really I'm afraid.

arn
Feb 21, 2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by DJY

I was thinking about this the other day.... Despite all rumours for Aust, Europe, Canada et al.... I don't think Apple have made any actual movements to providing iTMS beyond the USA - that they have made public?

Steve Jobs has said that iTunes will be coming to Japan and Europe in 2004.

arn

winmacguy
Feb 21, 2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by curmi
I think Apple may have blown it in Australia on the iTMS.

Too many people have set up their own - including Australia's biggest ISP Telstra. Apple took too long, and gave no indication they were even doing anything so as to scare off the opposition. Now, if they ever do get their act together, they will be seen as late, and just copying the others.

It serves them right really I'm afraid.

Think that Apples problems regarding createing a level international playing field can be summed up in the explanation below.

I thought the problem with international distribution is that the rights aren't as easy as you might hope - I have a bad feeling it goes something like:

Taking an artist I know some of the distribution rights of -
Mushroom handled distribution of Split Enz music in Australia and New Zealand, but a different company (EMI I think?) had the rights in the US.
If that company agrees with Apple that Apple can distribute Split Enz songs in the US, then Apple can distribute Split Enz songs in the US.
However, Apple can't provide that service to a NZer, sitting in NZ, with a NZ Visa card, since the distribution rights in NZ belong to Mushroom, who haven't agreed to Apple distributing Split Enz songs anywhere.

billyboy
Feb 21, 2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by winmacguy
Taking an artist I know some of the distribution rights of -
Mushroom handled distribution of Split Enz music in Australia and New Zealand, but a different company (EMI I think?) had the rights in the US.
If that company agrees with Apple that Apple can distribute Split Enz songs in the US, then Apple can distribute Split Enz songs in the US.
However, Apple can't provide that service to a NZer, sitting in NZ, with a NZ Visa card, since the distribution rights in NZ belong to Mushroom, who haven't agreed to Apple distributing Split Enz songs anywhere.

Great band.

When you put it like that, it seems as though Apple will have to basically set up an iTunes Music Store from scratch in each country. The big five presumably would give them 200,000 tracks without too much hassle, but after that, to get to 500,000 in each country it could be a real time consuming bummer.

Lets hope Apple come up with deals that maybe set new rules for the industry and link the world of legal downloads under the one Apple banner. Its late and Im thinking different.

applekid
Feb 21, 2004, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by billyboy
Great band.

When you put it like that, it seems as though Apple will have to basically set up an iTunes Music Store from scratch in each country. The big five presumably would give them 200,000 tracks without too much hassle, but after that, to get to 500,000 in each country it could be a real time consuming bummer.

But I think it would be worth it. Here's my little hope. Apple finally establishes all of these international stores one day. So the world is happy and it can bring us world peace ;) :D

Okay, seriously, let's say Apple gets to the point where all of the Music Stores have been established for each location. I'm hoping we can access each store through iTunes. So instead of seeing just Music Store, it'll also have Music Store (Europe), Music Store (Canada), Music Store (Japan), etc. And since iTunes is capable of using almost any language, the Japanese text will show up in Japanese, Russian in Russian, and etc. We buy songs like we already do and it's good to go. We might have to pay maybe a dime or two more since it's import music and currency exchanges. Perhaps we may also need a translations of these stores if some foreigners want to buy something new and exotic. Why not? It'll expand the record companies' audience.

winmacguy
Feb 21, 2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by billyboy
Great band.

When you put it like that, it seems as though Apple will have to basically set up an iTunes Music Store from scratch in each country. The big five presumably would give them 200,000 tracks without too much hassle, but after that, to get to 500,000 in each country it could be a real time consuming bummer.

Lets hope Apple come up with deals that maybe set new rules for the industry and link the world of legal downloads under the one Apple banner. Its late and Im thinking different.

The reason I posted that quote is because it relates to this link http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2815194a28,00.html
It looks like Apple NZ (Renaisance Group Ltd) is going under their own steam with Sounds NZ to start doing store with in a store to promote/sell iPods starting in the South Island with Sounds Christchurch as a trial store. Then they are going to start doing instore kiosks to download music in about 6months. This is going to allow Apple NZ to negotiate independently with the local recording industry and to keep the momentum of the iPod success moving rather than becoming stagnant and losing out to the competition. I dont know the details of the proposed instore kiosks.

This all makes me think that it would be easier for each Apple store/centre in each country to negotiate internally with the music industry people to set something up based around iTMS to avoid losing to the competition and to get iTMS stores up and running in each relevant country,so that intime there can be something like an iTMS international mall as metioned by a previous poster last week.

It could be that the mountian of beaurocracy is too much to tackle in one hit for Apple regarding the world wide release of iTMS but if Apple was to delegate the individual tasks to each Apple store/organisation in each country, eg Apple Australia, Apple NZ, Apple UK, Apple France, Apple Italy etc which then intime all become one big Apple iTMS with each startup being based on the bench mark formula of iTMS that might turn the mountain of Beaurocracy into a relative molehill

doogle
Feb 21, 2004, 08:53 PM
I am not a big fan of globalisation but if there is any industry needing it (and indeed at the forefront of this push), it is the music industry.

I have never heard of Destra (I am an aussie) and probably will never hear of them even if they do get a service running. People want brands to buy from (and that does not include Telstra) and Apple could have been that brand in Australia.

doogle
Feb 21, 2004, 09:01 PM
It could be that the mountian of beaurocracy is too much to tackle in one hit for Apple regarding the world wide release of iTMS but if Apple was to delegate the individual tasks to each Apple store/organisation in each country, eg Apple Australia,

NO! DO NOT GO THERE! :)
Apple Australia is a distributors outpost and nothing more.

winmacguy
Feb 21, 2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by doogle
NO! DO NOT GO THERE! :)
Apple Australia is a distributors outpost and nothing more.

So is Apple NZ (a division of Renaisance Group Ltd).

They are not a standalonecompany in NZ, rather a distribution agent. All the Apple stuff that we get in NZ actually gets distributed from the allocated left overs from Apple Australia who are probably part of Apple Asia Pacific.

Our countrys (NZ) volumes of Apple products sold dont even rate as a blip on Apple US financial radar screen.


But having said all of that Apple NZ (division of Renaisance Group Ltd) seems to be taking it upon themselves to keep the momentum going i.e getting off their collective asses and doing something beneficial for Apple and the NZ music industry in order to sell iPods through Sounds NZ and initiate in some form an iTMS in NZ

which is why I say that maybe Apple Australia should/could consider doing the same to get the ball rolling and avoid losing momentum. They would find it easier to negitiate with ARIA and get some form of iTMS established than waiting for Apple US to tell them what /when to jump. Dont forget that Apple is not famous for being a marketing company, Microsoft is, and we all know what happened there.

fatbarstard
Feb 21, 2004, 09:25 PM
All this stuff here about who owns what rights and where with whom only highlights the unholy mess that the music industry finds itself in..

This is as much Apple's achillies heel as it is the music industy's. Take the example of Split Enz... its stikes me as a little sad that someone on the otherside of the world can buy their music online but I can't in NZ becuase someone at the local licencee doesn't 'get it'.

And that sucks dude.....

doogle
Feb 21, 2004, 09:26 PM
I cannot speak for NZ but Apple Australia has a VERY poor record of making successful deals. They got Optus (telco) to use Macs for a while and they do some very limited advertising campaigns. When it comes to 'in your face' corporate deals - cross promotion opportunities they have been (i think) firmly been told to stay in the box....Where is the evidence of Apple Australia (Asia/pacific) making any deal that comes close to negotiating a deal to sell music locally?

No they will fly in some Yank from Cupertino to make it happen, if it will happen, and that is a very big IF!

winmacguy
Feb 21, 2004, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by fatbarstard
All this stuff here about who owns what rights and where with whom only highlights the unholy mess that the music industry finds itself in..

This is as much Apple's achillies heel as it is the music industy's. Take the example of Split Enz... its stikes me as a little sad that someone on the otherside of the world can buy their music online but I can't in NZ becuase someone at the local licencee doesn't 'get it'.

And that sucks dude.....

Im with you on that one Fatbarstard!

Unfortunately it can be very hard to teach an old dog new tricks especialy when they dont want to learn any. And then they can take forever to come around to your way of thinking no matter how beneficial the trick may be.

Irafas
Feb 21, 2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by doogle

I have never heard of Destra (I am an aussie) and probably will never hear of them even if they do get a service running. People want brands to buy from (and that does not include Telstra) and Apple could have been that brand in Australia.

I'm sure you have heard of Sanity, HMV, JB Hi-Fi, Chaos Music etc.

Destra runs all of the above music services. It doesn't put its own brand on any of them.

MarkCollette
Feb 21, 2004, 11:01 PM
Oh my god I can't take it any longer!!!
I'm freakin nic'ing out!
I need some Mac rumors or else I'm going to have to... get work done or something. Argh!

doogle
Feb 21, 2004, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Irafas
I'm sure you have heard of Sanity, HMV, JB Hi-Fi, Chaos Music etc.

Destra runs all of the above music services. It doesn't put its own brand on any of them.

yup thanks for the correction irafas. Considering I bought my last cd last year (The Music) and not from any of those well known places and I bascially pilfer off others maybe I should shut-up!

..No, Bugger it, opinions are fun even when wrong!

Wardofsky
Feb 22, 2004, 12:41 AM
Hmm, Destra sounds interesting...
http://www.destra.com/
http://www.destramusic.com/

Telstra however is doing BigPond (ISP) Music Channel http://www.bigpond.com/music/ and of course only does WMA works...

Both are through web browsers however, I think Telstra is working with NineMSN to work with Media Player.

1st Qtr for iTMS in Aus I'm hoping.

Nermal
Feb 22, 2004, 12:49 AM
Telstra working with MSN? That's kinda funny because Telstra's competing with MSN here in NZ :rolleyes:

mac15
Feb 22, 2004, 03:18 AM
Awesome, I can't wait to buy some Aussie tunes in AAC :)

hamishb
Feb 22, 2004, 04:12 AM
Destra is a publicly listed company on the Australian Stock Exchange (I used to be a shareholder - I bought my shares when they floated 6 weeks after the tech wreck!). Bought at 30 cents, sold around 20 cents and they went down from there.

They originally listed under the name of ehYou.com (a pun on .com.au), and changed their name a while later (Destra is latin for "write" or something like that).

One of the domains they own is mp3.com.au

An interesting company, based in Melbourne, run by twenty-something Domenic Carosa. Their web hosting division is the second or third largerst in Australia, behind Telstra.

Sabenth
Feb 22, 2004, 05:10 AM
Simply putting it ..


Music industry is tightly closed and hates to open up for anyone .. bit like banks really :D
i could go on but not much point ...

good to hear that some one else is intrested in aac files though not just wma

Photorun
Feb 22, 2004, 08:51 AM
The music industry is closed off is an understatement. Any industry that is made up of so many lawyers into protecting it's money (don't be fooled, it's not about protecting artists, the majority don't see jack sh** of any royalties) and based in draconian business with hints of paranoia. The best thing for the music industry in most places would be anarchy and the system rebuilt the way it was in the 60s and some of the 70s when it was actually about music, not about evil greed and packaging.

qazwsxedc30
Feb 22, 2004, 09:30 AM
I bet they putting them in aac for ipod and the new nokia phones that DO NOT support wma, but DO support aac :)

mathematician
Feb 22, 2004, 12:37 PM
I think the article is not very clear. It says that Destra is offering the tracks in WMA and then:

The tracks are also available in AAC.

But maybe it is just that

The tracks are also available in AAC at the iTMS (US).

meaning that they don't have any exclusive tracks there. On the destra page they have Windows Media as technology partner, but not Apple.

Question: Is there any one company that bought a licence of AAC/FairPlay from Apple? Please name a single one.

winmacguy
Feb 22, 2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by mathematician
I think the article is not very clear. It says that Destra is offering the tracks in WMA and then:

The tracks are also available in AAC.

But maybe it is just that

The tracks are also available in AAC at the iTMS (US).

meaning that they don't have any exclusive tracks there. On the destra page they have Windows Media as technology partner, but not Apple.

Question: Is there any one company that bought a licence of AAC/FairPlay from Apple? Please name a single one.

Apple doesnt own the rights to DRM AAC

mathematician
Feb 22, 2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by winmacguy
Apple doesnt own the rights to DRM AAC

What do you mean?

The following is a quote from http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/authorization.html

The iTunes Music Store uses FairPlay, Apple's new digital rights management system that's designed to be fair to the artist, to the record companies and to you.

winmacguy
Feb 22, 2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by mathematician
What do you mean?

The following is a quote from http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/authorization.html

The iTunes Music Store uses FairPlay, Apple's new digital rights management system that's designed to be fair to the artist, to the record companies and to you.

Ok I knew I was going tobe corrected pretty quickly on that if I was wrong.

Bram
Feb 22, 2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by hamishb
(Destra is latin for "write" or something like that).


Destra is Latin for 'right', not 'write'. Sinistra is left, destra is right.

Hope they also make things right! :)

cb911
Feb 22, 2004, 03:22 PM
he he. yeah, if Destra do things right... someone might actually get the jump on Apple!:eek:

oh well. whatever. it's all good for the citizens of Australia. :D

Irafas
Feb 22, 2004, 05:17 PM
So Destra runs online music stores for HMV, Sanity, blah blah blah.

Why not Apple? If Apple don't want to go to the hassle of doing all the licensing for Australia, then they may as well have the Australian iTMS run by Destra (for a commission, or something). It would be easy to incorporate it into iTunes.

If Destra actually are intending to support AAC+Fairplay and the iPod, then this might be the reason.

Malus120
Feb 22, 2004, 05:44 PM
Man what i would love to see more than anything from Apple right now(besides new G5's of course :P) is an international ITMS Music store. Im talking about one where I as a US consumer can listin to and DL songs from oh say Japan's ITMS. That would be sooo sweet. I think it would be really awsome for Apple, the Artists, and the consumers. I know many people, myself included who are VERY interested in checking out other countries music. If Apple did this they would likely see a huge sales increase in every country where ITMS comes ot exist.:D

Kiwi-Todd
Feb 22, 2004, 06:08 PM
But having said all of that Apple NZ (division of Renaisance Group Ltd) seems to be taking it upon themselves to keep the momentum going i.e getting off their collective asses and doing something beneficial for Apple and the NZ music industry in order to sell iPods through Sounds NZ and initiate in some form an iTMS in NZ


That is quite exciting actually as I really do feel that the iPod is hugely undermarketed in NZ - I have had one for six months and last week was the first time that someone actually said "hey you've got an ipod". Normally its "whats that white thing on your desk?" (admittedly I don't get out much!)

It would be great to see it take off here - because ipods/itunes really do give everyday people (windows users) a glimpse of Apple's strengths. - My Dad now has an iPod and is swearing his next computer will be a mac.

winmacguy
Feb 22, 2004, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Kiwi-Todd
That is quite exciting actually as I really do feel that the iPod is hugely undermarketed in NZ - I have had one for six months and last week was the first time that someone actually said "hey you've got an ipod". Normally its "whats that white thing on your desk?" (admittedly I don't get out much!)

It would be great to see it take off here - because ipods/itunes really do give everyday people (windows users) a glimpse of Apple's strengths. - My Dad now has an iPod and is swearing his next computer will be a mac.

I talked to one of the guys at Auckland Uni Campus IT when first ordered my 20GB iPod earlier in the year about the level of iPod marketing in NZ.

He said that with some of Apples previous marketing campaigns in NZ they had over promoted and undersupplied which had made them look like idiots.

With the iPod campaign they had only dont minimal marketing and achieved (relative) huge success. Most stores Bond and Bond, Noel Leemings etc had sold out in the run up to Christmas.

Apple NZ's problem is that although they can order as many iPods as they have orders for from Apple Australia, they only get what is allocated and we are a VERY SMALL market.

Aparently Apple NZ sold 500 iPods last year as reported in the NZ Herald in January

I have also noticed more people walking around town with the "tell tale" white buds in their ears. My Dad was very impressed with the sound of my iPod when I showed him recently.

I would/will be looking forward to seeing iPods being sold at Sounds Stores in Auckland in the near future.

Kiwi-Todd
Feb 22, 2004, 08:51 PM
Hi WinMacguy

Yeah, as with most things we do suffer from being about the most marginal marketplace in the English speaking world!

I too have seen a couple of earbuds around down here - asian students mainly - which is great to see.

iPods really do sell themselves once people are aware of what they are - and I do sense some momentum building - seems to be heaps of 'cameos' on american TV shows this season too. All good for the platform!

winmacguy
Feb 22, 2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Kiwi-Todd
Hi WinMacguy

Yeah, as with most things we do suffer from being about the most marginal marketplace in the English speaking world!

I too have seen a couple of earbuds around down here - asian students mainly - which is great to see.

iPods really do sell themselves once people are aware of what they are - and I do sense some momentum building - seems to be heaps of 'cameos' on american TV shows this season too. All good for the platform!

Special article on the end of 3 News last night regarding the arrival of the iPod mini in NYC on Friday between 6pm and 8pm NY Time with ques of people lined up around the corner of the store!!!! good to see it getting a mention :)

winmacguy
Feb 22, 2004, 08:58 PM
I also notice that new show late on 3 on a Sunday night from Australia with the host having a Lap top Tibook with him! :)

TorbX
Feb 23, 2004, 08:18 AM
PowerBook G5!
Headless iMac G5!
G5 3.33 GHz speedbump!
Newton!
iPod Video-on-demand-wi-fi!

....MARKLAR! (There, I said it!)

Anything goes, just give me good rumors to chew on! Enough about iTMS, Pepsi commercials, McDonalds, MiniPods and general nick-nack (like the millimeter-technology behind the new 970fx-proc.)

Gimme som real flesh, here!