Apple Exploring 3D Desktop and Application Interfaces

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/11/apple-exploring-3d-desktop-and-application-interfaces/)

Dozens of Apple patent applications were published today revealing research that Apple had done in 2007 on many topics encompassing future versions of Mac OS X. The most intriguing is a series of patent applications which describe a "Multidimensional" user interface. Apple has essentially been working on true 3D desktop environments. Disclosed herein are systems, aparatus and methods, including a multidimensional desktop graphical user interface.In one titled Multidimensional Desktop (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20080307360&OS=20080307360&RS=20080307360), Apple includes a number of diagrams depicting what such a desktop might look like and how it would work.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/12/11/061036-pat2_425.png


This figure shows a multidimensional desktop environment alongside what Apple describes as a multidimensional application environment. Along the side are a number of three-dimensional "function" icons that may trigger certain commands on each surface. These icons can be manipulated in 3D with a physics model so the icons can appropriately "fall" if displaced.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/12/11/061037-pat3_425.png


This figure shows that windows could be dragged or displaced across multiple surfaces. Each surface could have its own characteristics and cause icons or windows to display different information:For example, on the bottom surface, icons and other system object representations can be displayed according to a large scale; on the side surface, icons and system object representations can be displayed according to small scale; on the back surface, icons and other system object representations can be displayed in a list format


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/12/11/061036-pat1_425.png


It's not clear when and if Apple will decide to implement these design ideas into a future version of Mac OS X. Apple's next major version of Mac OS X (10.6) is due in the first quarter of 2009 and will primarily focus on "under the hood" changes to boost performance. Apple has not been the only one working on 3D desktops. One popular YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ODskdEPnQ) demos a 3D desktop in action. Sun's Project Looking Glass (http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/index.jsp) also demonstrates a currently functional 3D desktop for linux and Solaris x86.

Article Link: Apple Exploring 3D Desktop and Application Interfaces (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/11/apple-exploring-3d-desktop-and-application-interfaces/)

[majidf]

Looks nice, it should be named "The Box"/Box and not iBox as it looks as if you are looking inside a box. Lets see if there is any suitable words for a possible "BOX" acronym.

[luminol74]

Cool idea but I can't imagine terribly practical...

[xak1101]

A windows program called "Bumptop" was recently released as a closed beta on windows
they are developing it for mac, but not out yet
I got it and it works pretty well, youtube it

[Ropie]

So is this earlier than initial concepts by BumpTop?
I quite like the look of it and the standard Leopard dock makes a bit more sense in the light of this.

[stormdrums]

Looks nice, it should be named "The Box"/Box and not iBox as it looks as if you are looking inside a box. Lets see if there is any suitable words for a possible "BOX" acronym.

it should be called MacBox Pro :D

[talkingfuture]

Looks cool, it could be the next stage after the 3d dock.

[sukanas]

it looks like its one of those things that look really cool but is really inefficient and unecessary

[Saladinos]

At first I didn't like this news - I like the OSX desktop as it is.

However, the idea of contextual surfaces is quite interesting. I warmed to it a little after reading that. Still not really convinced.

[Ropie]

it looks like its one of those things that look really cool but is really inefficient and unecessary

On a flat screen, yes - it's all just more simulation. However, imagine it in a 3D holographic environment where your screen is all around you..:cool:

[Teddy's]

I guess it will be more like Steve Mob's giant underwater super computer. I guess we will hear more rumors in the next years.

btw, OSX... I say O S TEN

[qubex]

This looks totally unusable.

Unless you argue for a truly immersive 3D environment with goggles and whatnot, in which case it isn't only the desktop metaphor that becomes unusable, but the whole computer system.

VR failed not only as a technology, but as a concept. Why people keep barking up that tree is beyond me.

Flat screen, flat images. Even our vision isn't really 3D, we can only distinguish depth based on horizontal distance... because our eyes are only offset horizontally.

Blah.

*Cue clueless fanboys advocating 3D iPhones that beam 3D environments right into your eyeballs using some exotic laser technology, and all that kind of absurd hypothesising.*

[joshysquashy]

I'm not against changing things. Change is good, and constantly trying to improve or evolve designs is a great thing, and something apple is famous for.

I don't think a psudo 3d environment is a great idea. This isn't really three dimensional, as we are still using 2d displays. So displaying 2d information that has been skewed to represent a 3d plane, seems counter productive. All you are doing is making that information less legible and less useful.

A real 3d environment, however, has great potential. Productivity could be increased by working with layers in a real 3d space, or perhaps working with a whole landscape.

Just a thought, but if 3d can prove to increase productivity, what about 4d? Perhaps in the future we will be working in poly-dimensional space, inconceivable to us at the moment, but surely very usefull! ;)

[Santabean2000]

it looks like its one of those things that look really cool but is really inefficient and unecessary

Come on people, have some vision!:eek:

Think about the other avenues/patents Apple has pursued, 3D goggles, gestures...

For sure this is the way forward :cool:

[macFanDave]

but that looks like Microsoft Bob!

[Lepton]

This seems very usable to me. Think about the current implementation of Apple Spaces. But here, each inside surface of the 3D cube is a space. You'd be able to rotate the box with arrow commands to bring one of the side surfaces to the front, uh, I mean back. Moving a window to a side surface is just like moving it among spaces now, except you don't have to go into the "see all spaces on the screen mode" first. And you have a few more views. The icon view, when on a side surface, causes the isons to stand up like on a dock. Finder windows stick to the surfaces of the cube, while app windows float in the middle.

This all works for me. It does seem practical, and as usual for Apple, is not just eye candy but serves the useful purpose of having more info on screen while keeping it better organized, simple and intuitive. Let me at it!

[tom.]

I can't imagine it with todays peripherals, interesting for the future though.

People who are saying it's pointless etc are speaking a bit too soon considering this is consceptual and you have no idea how they would intend to implement it.

Someday things will change, who knows, this might be it!

[talkingfuture]

A lot of people think this would be inefficient to use but I reckon that IF Apple implemented something like this they will make sure it works. They tend to patent all their ideas so this may just be one of many ideas for the next gen of GUI.

[fendol]

This is stuff they researched on 2007 I wonder what are they doing now that haven't told us, or that we don't know yet.

Looks like an interesting idea. The future will tell if it can be useful, as it is a bit soon to make any practical application with this ;):apple:http://seoagora.com/img/1261/v08t1201sxfb/cheers.gifhttp://seoagora.com/img/308/s08e1024rvou/champagne.gifhttp://seoagora.com/img/589/d08l1104oulu/smiley2.gif

[blimeyoriley]

thts pretty kl , tho im guessing this was before they invented spaces

[drichards]

but that looks like Microsoft Bob!
Bob was great. Best MS software to date, hands down.

[Will_reed]

The problem with the idea of the 3d desktop is it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, even when you are working on a real desk you aren't working like this.

Most ideas that people come up with make is seem more like you're working out of a box then on an actual desk. This Bumptop thing is pretty crappy looking too, most of the videos are just people throwing the little icons around I mean honestly how many people out there had a box for a desk and organized by throwing your crap around in a mess and occasionally stacking them up in a pile, If you ever saw someone working this way you'd think they'd have lost their mind.

[velocityg4]

Maybe if the used a real 3D display I would be interested.

Or at least one that tricks your eyes like the Stereographic Laser in the Time Traveler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Traveler_%28video_game%29) arcade game. That game was awesome but very few arcades could afford it. I only remember it at Disney land and it was over $1 per game:eek:, unheard of at that time. I assume even Packman is a dollar since I have not been to an arcade in years.147965147966
edit: They should use the above cabinet design and size too:D. I'd want an iBulk.

[dontwalkhand]

A dream come true, a Minority Report style computer, but running Mac OS! :). Forget about those Windows running Minority Report computers! :apple::apple::apple::apple:

[qubex]

A dream come true, a Minority Report style computer, but running Mac OS! :). Forget about those Windows running Minority Report computers! :apple::apple::apple::apple:

Much as I recall Minority Report, the computer system in question screwed up in a distinctly Microsoft-style that I doubt Apple would want to be even fictionally associated with.

[phelix_da_kat]

I like the idea of a 3D GUI, but I think this would be better implemented with say a touch interface.. I know corps blanket the patent office so this may sit around for a while.. but say in future touch screen iMacs or laptops/tablets..

[Les Kern]

it looks like its one of those things that look really cool but is really inefficient and unecessary

Yeah, like Vista.
Say it ain't so Apple.

[studlybw]

*Cue clueless fanboys advocating 3D iPhones that beam 3D environments right into your eyeballs using some exotic laser technology, and all that kind of absurd hypothesising.*

Cue morons talking about some absurd Dick Tracy or Batman technology where you can have a phone on your wrist or in your pocket. Better yet, cue some moron spewing off some form of communication that involves tapping on so-called "keyboards" in a world they call the "internet".

[ajvizzgamer101]

This kinda reminds me of the Playstation Home arugement...

Why would you want to walk around a virtual world to interact with people when you can have a nice, quick menu screen.

[rented mule]

The current implementation shown by Apple would be a disaster. A 3D GUI on a 2D display simply doesn't work. Like many have said here, it would be completely inefficient.

I'd rather Apple concentrate on making the current 2D UI better with a side project of creating a completely new 3D UI (not that 2D crap in a 3D environment seen in the patents diagrams) for future 3D displays.

[BlueRevolution]

Apple has always been about usability first and style second. This strikes me as more form than substance, and I really hope it remains conceptual... until they invent a true 3D display, of course.

The concept reminds me of BumpTop (http://bumptop.com/). The idea of the app is to more naturally recreate the experience of dealing with papers on your physical desktop. Upon hearing this, I looked around my desk and wondered why anyone would want to mimic that, but to each his own I guess. The same goes for the 3D interface. However, unless designers are allowed to design their icons (http://furbo.org/2007/07/03/the-hig-still-matters-even-with-special-effects/) in 3D, I don't see the point. I think that would be the place to start.

[jayducharme]

BumpTop has some clunky aspects to it, but I can see how it could be more intuitive to use for non-computer-savvy people (of which there are fewer and fewer). The lasso movements would be really natural on a multi-touch pad, much like the commands on many iPhone games (e.g., swipe-and-swirl). So I can see Apple developing this idea in a really user-friendly way. Then we'll all wonder how we lived so long with flat desktops.

[dizastor]

I like how the bottom surface is depicted as working. Stacking windows like photographs in front of the traditional desktop. like the entire bottom portion of your screen becomes an extended dock.

This would work really well on larger screens like the 30" monitor, but I can see this being something you'd need to turn off on the 13" macbook or air.

I would hope that apps (especially pro apps with many palettes and tools) would be able to continue to access all of the screen real estate.

How cool would it be if the 3d part of the finder/desktop was activated like expose and your desktop zoomed back in 3d at the touch of a button to reveal the 3d interface elements.

Mmmm. Eye Candy. *drool*

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5G77 Safari/525.20)

I think that this technology is really close to becoming a reality. I'm anxious to see how Apple implements it. I think that it may be a bust if you have to wear some sort of glasses but everything that I've seen seem to point to not having to wear anything. We will see.

[SydneyDev]

The kind of spatial interface shown in the YouTube video should have been Apple's heritage by right, since pre-OS X they were very spatially oriented. Unfortunately OS X threw out that metaphor.

[macthetiger85]

On a flat screen, yes - it's all just more simulation. However, imagine it in a 3D holographic environment where your screen is all around you..:cool:

That's what I was thinking - not necessarily all around you but it would be more natural - I don't think the world is ready for this but imagine you "walk in" to your desktop and go to your file cabinet to open the finder - everything is 3d doesn't mean space that everyone is unfamiliar with - it's more like very real virtuality - forget ichat - actually see the person on the desktop talking to you (they obviously can do that with the new alpha out effects)

This could be a very natural way of computing.

[macthetiger85]

I'm not against changing things. Change is good, and constantly trying to improve or evolve designs is a great thing, and something apple is famous for.

I don't think a psudo 3d environment is a great idea. This isn't really three dimensional, as we are still using 2d displays. So displaying 2d information that has been skewed to represent a 3d plane, seems counter productive. All you are doing is making that information less legible and less useful.

A real 3d environment, however, has great potential. Productivity could be increased by working with layers in a real 3d space, or perhaps working with a whole landscape.

Just a thought, but if 3d can prove to increase productivity, what about 4d? Perhaps in the future we will be working in poly-dimensional space, inconceivable to us at the moment, but surely very usefull! ;)

Isn't the 4th dimension time? We have that - at least one way - TimeMachine :)

[qubex]

Cue morons talking about some absurd Dick Tracy or Batman technology where you can have a phone on your wrist or in your pocket. Better yet, cue some moron spewing off some form of communication that involves tapping on so-called "keyboards" in a world they call the "internet".

None of those situations you cite violate the laws of physics. Unfortunately, this laser-beaming-thing (which I thought up on the spur of the moment as something I thought everybody would instantly recognise as being indefensible and patently absurd) will require a constant line of sight between the iPhone3D and both eyes, which is very difficult to maintain. When it's behind your back, it can't beam into your eyes (fair enough), but when it's on your far left, the path of sight may require firing a laser beam through the bridge of your nose.

Lets stick to actual physical reality.

[zombitronic]

Maybe we'll see a redesigned Finder and Desktop with 10.7. Possibly some extra peripherals to use with it. I would think they'd want to have the system optimized first, as they're doing with 10.6. This experience wouldn't be attractive unless it ran completely fluid, IMO.

[Thomas2006]

Cool idea but I can't imagine terribly practical...
I completely agree with you. Look at how much of the screen is wasted so it can have a 3-D appearance. If that screen belonged to a MacBook then the application window is only going to be a little over 11". The smaller the screen, the less cluttered it needs to be, so Apple should make it so we can ditch the dock and use the old style menu bar.

[amac4me]

A 3D GUI may be implemented and useful in a multi-version version of Mac OS X. You'd be able to push things aside, move them behind others, and so on.

I think it could be practically implemented.

[tobian]

I can imagine this type of UI, but would be useless with today's positioning devices. Mouse is about moving your hand, trackpad about moving your fingers.. but both can control only X Y axes at a time. To be able to effectively control 3D enviroment, we need to move hand for X Y, and finger up and down for Z axis.. Like using the wheel on mouse as left click and eventually scrolling when dragging (but this is not a very comfortable way).

[macFanDave]

Bob was great. Best MS software to date, hands down.


You know, it looked like it would be good for people who were intimidated by computers, but M$ made such a screw-up of it that instead of helping, it became a big disastrous joke!

The Edsel was supposed to be a revolutionary great car, but look what happened to that. I'd also put the Segway in the category of great ideas that underperform in reality.

[grayskies]

- Intriguing

It is simplistic to say this has no application. It is necessary to try new things...explore new ideas. 3-d might be a dud but we don't know yet.

[SydneyDev]

I can't imagine using projectors any time soon. Maybe a VR helmet and glove?

[andiwm2003]

i rated this negative because our screens are overloaded with stuff as it is. making it 3d makes everything more complicated. it might look cool but what good does it do when you work with EXCEL 90% of the time or PS. Individual apps like games or itunes could use something like this for fun but not for serious work.

[prady16]

Looks cool! Reminds me of some software i saw on windows 3.1 which gave a living room kind of environment to managing files on the PC. I dont remember the name. Anybody?

[Schizoid]

I've been experimenting with Apple's new 5-dimensional desktop, it can get complicated though...

Take the Dock Preferences for example, in 10.5 it can be bottom, left or right...
In 10.7 it's bottom left, bottom right, back left, back right, intermediate middle left, intermediate middle bottom or left back front, or combinations of rear, left, middle, side, back bottom, side or middle of the screen (intermediate hasn't yet been implemented)

It's quite good, but because it's multi-dimensional, you have to be careful when you use Dock Magnification, easy on a 10.5 Mac I know, but the Dock icon expands into the fourth dimension, becoming invisible or expanding into an unknown realm, opening up a black hole, spilling your documents into the delta quadrant...

The new Windows version is great though they have this...

C:\>_

[sishaw]

Also, it should be a tactile thing--what good is a fancy box if you can't spin it around with a flick of the finger? IMHO, of course.

[alphaod]

Apple has always been about usability first and style second.


You're kidding right? AFAIK Apple has always taken aesthetics first; take the MacBook Air for example; seriously. Or the new MacBook. IF you're telling me removing FW and using a proprietary video adapter isn't about improving aesthetics (by not having more ports on the right side). I doubt that's improving functionality.

[kerryn]

Don't like it.

Stick with a 2D desktop for a 2D monitor....

[longofest]

Sun was working on this as far back as 2003/2004 with Project Looking Glass (http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/lookingglass/), and it is remarkably similar.

Edit: better link (http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/index.jsp)

Edit 2: added to the article.

[gonnabuyamac]

I don't think I'd like the whole OS being 3D(ish) like this. However, if some different apps utilized an interface like this - like iPhoto and iTunes - I could see how it would be incredibly useful and cool.

[OasisNYK]

it looks like its one of those things that look really cool but is really inefficient and unecessary

Actually I have to disagree with you - you could be right - but I have been thinking about a 3D desktop for a while and here is why:

The computer essentially has done the same thing since the late 1990's - there have been no dramatic shifts in the way we interact with them. This is in large part due to the 2D interface, I believe we have reached the maximum potential of the 2D structure and the next step logically is to jump to 3D. This would also allow for the use of virtual reality headsets to enhance the user experience - which Apple has also been looking in to.

While it could end up being a total stinker, I think there is a lot of potential with moving to 3D - even television is going there so it is on the horizon in a big way.

[salmon]

I expect this would work best with multiple monitors, set up appropriately.

[qubex]

I expect this would work best with multiple monitors, set up appropriately.

Heh. Yes, sure. Five translucent monitors, one behind the other.

[AppleMojo]

I've been experimenting with Apple's new 5-dimensional desktop, it can get complicated though...

Take the Dock Preferences for example, in 10.5 it can be bottom, left or right...
In 10.7 it's bottom left, bottom right, back left, back right, intermediate middle left, intermediate middle bottom or left back front, or combinations of rear, left, middle, side, back bottom, side or middle of the screen (intermediate hasn't yet been implemented)

It's quite good, but because it's multi-dimensional, you have to be careful when you use Dock Magnification, easy on a 10.5 Mac I know, but the Dock icon expands into the fourth dimension, becoming invisible or expanding into an unknown realm, opening up a black hole, spilling your documents into the delta quadrant...

The new Windows version is great though they have this...

C:\>_

Reading this comment was worth all of the nonsense waded through to get here.

I like the windows dig at the end. Nice touch!

Thanks...

[daverso]

New dashboard maybe...

[talkingfuture]

Reading this comment was worth all of the nonsense waded through to get here.

I like the windows dig at the end. Nice touch!

Thanks...

Imagine phoning apple care to ask how to get your files back form the black hole that opened in your desktop and appears to be sucking in the contents of your machine.

[alexbates]

New dashboard maybe...

Maybe a dashboard within the desktop, something similar to the Windows Vista Gadgets and also continue to have the same dashboard along with it.

[morespce54]

Call me "Dumb Name" but I don't really get the point of this. Or at least, I don't get how this could change our World... But then again, it's apple so nobody knows what they'll do with that!


I like a "working-rock-solid" OS better than any "flashy-widginnovations"

[liptonlover]

I have a feeling apple won't implement this until/unless it can be useful... otherwise they would have done it already just for eyecandy I think.

bumptop is intruiging... at the very least it's creative. Not sure how practical it'd be though.

[JG271]

3D Stacks would be useful - they are already a little bit, with the first item first on the dock, the second item in the folder just behind that in the dock. 3D windows and things? Probably not so useful... i'll stick to two screens thanks.

Makes me wonder what crazy things go on inside apple's R+D department.
Some of the reasons the modern gui/file system came about was because of the untidiness of traditional desktops - so they'd have to make it practical as well as just creative/interesting/new.

[wobudong]

Clutter.

[sishaw]

I've been experimenting with Apple's new 5-dimensional desktop, it can get complicated though...

It's quite good, but because it's multi-dimensional, you have to be careful when you use Dock Magnification, easy on a 10.5 Mac I know, but the Dock icon expands into the fourth dimension, becoming invisible or expanding into an unknown realm, opening up a black hole, spilling your documents into the delta quadrant...

The new Windows version is great though they have this...

C:\>_

Dude! Don't you know your way around the 4th dimension yet?

[Compile 'em all]

Clutter.

You didn't even use it and you are calling it clutter?

download the looking glass disc and see how it can improve things. You can even flip a browser's window and write on its back some notes.

but yeah, that stuff is old and been done before.

[Clive At Five]

I don't see this being implemented anywhere but as a replacement/upgrade of Spaces.... maybe...

[swarmster]

For the most part every 3D desktop system I've seen has been incredibly gimmicky. Usually just eye-candy that, if it doesn't actually hurt productivity, has no real use.

The third illustration in the news post is the first illustration of an idea that I'd actually kind of like (of course looking more at concept than necessarily the specific rough implementation).

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/12/11/061036-pat1_425.png

The sidewalls, and even to some extent the floor that apparently serves as some kind of expanded taskbar, seem like a good use of the third dimension. For some things like my buddy list (or even occasionally iTunes, though I rarely need constant visible access to it), I always try to make their windows as skinny as possible, so I can sit it at the side of my screen and always be able to check it just by looking. The problem is, there's only so much shrinking you can do before it either stops letting you shrink it or it starts cutting off letters, and then it eventually gets accidentally covered anyway. Tilting the window onto a "wall" would both save screen space and increase legibility. The eye is surprisingly good at processing fake 3D images.

And oh yeah, it looks pretty cool. Reminds me of Expose, actually: extremely functional, yet it still manages to impress visually. Not saying I'm totally convinced, but it's a classic Apple-style solution.

[madmaxmedia]

These are just patent app diagrams, so there not going to reveal much about what Apple is messing around with here.

They apply for patents for a lot of stuff, most of which never reaches the light of day.

3 or 4 years from now, who knows. Maybe the smallest iMac will be 28" holographic/3-D display with more pixels than what most people would know what to do with, along with very deep and precise gesture recognition. Who knows what might work in such a scenario.

[poundsmack]

reminds me a lot of this http://bumptop.com/

[edoates]

Interesting. Years ago, in 1988 or so, Todd Rundgren (a big Mac user and a very smart person and great musician), showed me a three dimensional interface design and prototype implementation on a Mac (the SE30 as I recall). It bore a great many similarities to the drawings in this article. The reason we didn't bite (not Apple, but another company) was that the Apple (or PC hardware for that matter) wasn't up to the graphical tasks, and the company I was with wasn't really in the business. I pointed him to Jean Louis-Gasse, but I don't think anything came of it.

Technology catches up with art from time to time ;-)

Eddie O

[theheadguy]

Anybody but me get instantly reminded of "Microsoft Bob" when they first saw the diagrams?

(obviously on a much, much simpler level)

[longofest]

reminds me a lot of this http://bumptop.com/

reminds me more of Sun's Looking Glass. Bumptop has just gotten so much exposure that that is what people think of first, but Looking Glass has been around since at least 2004.

[KindredMAC]

Sun was working on this as far back as 2003/2004 with Project Looking Glass (http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/lookingglass/), and it is remarkably similar.

Edit: better link (http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/index.jsp)

Edit 2: added to the article.

I remember that one.

I really think Apple needs to look at changing the Finder to something completely different.

Even though these drawings from Apple show a "3D" environment, it is still a 2D Finder.

[137489]

Sun was working on this as far back as 2003/2004 with Project Looking Glass (http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/lookingglass/), and it is remarkably similar.

Edit: better link (http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/index.jsp)

Edit 2: added to the article.

thanks for the link.

Graphical coolness - oh yes.

Being able to embed comments on the flip side. Not so sure about.

Putting applications out of the way. Hmm still thinks it clutters a bit. I think minimize and Expose handle most of putting out of the way, swiching and the abilily to watch everything on the desktop to run.

3D dock - now there you go. Rather than what my doc looks like.

I can see this being cool for games.

I think it is just one of those things, where maybe once I use it - i would think differenty. But from being in a 2-d computing world for so long. Hmm. Maybe I would not need 3 19-inch monitors for work then?

[poundsmack]

reminds me more of Sun's Looking Glass. Bumptop has just gotten so much exposure that that is what people think of first, but Looking Glass has been around since at least 2004.


ah looking glass :). as someone who contributes code to that project it's nice ot hear that people still remember it.

[Peace]

I thought Apple had already patented "stacks" ?

[wrcardon]

My guess is that a 3D environment will be engaged by hitting a button (a la expose, timemachine, etc) rather than being the full time OS. This will be likely first be rolled in to the OS in an Expose upgrade.

Instead of multiple windows displayed flat on a 2D desktop you will get the last picture, windows with 3D stacks for each program which you can scroll through by hovering over and rolling the mouse ball on your mighty mouse.

[ivladster]

This is amazing. Only apple thinks of this stuff. I am sure it will be optional to turn it off and on. I love how you can stack windows on the bottom and pretty much see everything at once. Very smart.

I don't understand when people say: "I like mac the way it is" That's what everyone said about Tiger. Now Leopard came out everyone love it too. Apple knows better I think what will work and what will fail.

Their attention to detail is amazing. Plus how will Apple compete against Microsoft that keeps on copying. This is great research by Apple. I hope 10.7 will have new way to organize windows and files. :)

[olternaut]

My feeling is that this won't hit until Mac OSXI or OS11.

[Aeolius]

This one:
http://images.macnn.com/macnn/news/0812/macos3d-lg5.jpg
...was done in 1997 in the movie "Men in Black". They had an oval display in their headquarters that had items magnifying in the Dock below.

[RedTomato]

Look at how much of the screen is wasted so it can have a 3-D appearance. If that screen belonged to a MacBook then the application window is only going to be a little over 11".

The smaller the screen, the less cluttered it needs to be, so Apple should make it so we can ditch the dock and use the old style menu bar.

I actually quite like this implementation, it looks like it could be a workable way of organising projects. But you are right, it will only be worth it on a big monitor, 20'' plus. At work we use macbooks hooked to 20'' and 24'' monitors. I think with the macbook screen, it would have to be turned off, but on a 24'', it would work very nicely. As some posters have said above, this is most likely to be optional activation, like Expose or Spaces.

For small monitors, your suggestion of going back to the menu bar has some merit. I have a WM6.1 mobile phone, and the start menu displays which programs are running, (it's crappy in other ways but never mind). But remember you could just make the dock really really small, and it'd probably take even less space than a menu bar which has to show names as well as icons.

[Saladinos]

Dude! Don't you know your way around the 4th dimension yet?

The 4th dimension is time.

[Firefly2002]

Eh.... might be occasionally useful at very high resolutions (I suppose widescreens make them particularly practical), but not often. If they do use it, it should be optional... and switchable back to the usual 2D.

[aarchitect]

Silicon Graphics (SGI) used to have a 3D interface on their IRIS workstations at least 15 years ago. I remember in grad school hooking up the 3d headset and navigating the "virtual space". It was the Gibsonian cyberspace or straight out of Lawnmower Man that was all the rage. The average computer didn't have the graphics power to until recently to come even close to using it but we are almost there. The question always is how to render a 2-D world in 3-D, which is kind of the opposite problem of what I deal with everyday as an architect.

[Daniel78]

Practical as long as it works like the dock with automatically hide and show.

[twoodcc]

very interesting. i bet this doesn't happen with 10.6 though. either 10.7 or 11.0 is my guess. and that's if it even happens at all

[liptonlover]

A way to use 3D would be "grouping" applications that are currently running into cubes, to create projects. When coding I use a bunch of windows in a handful of apps, and I have them open all at the same time. If I could have this cube of applications in the center that I could rotate quickly to get to the right app, without taking up more screen space, that'd be great. The only problem would potentially be drag and drop between applications.

Two other advantages to a 3D workspace is more room, and more wall room. People already mentioned putting secondary stuff on the side walls, like itunes. You also have more cubic room for your desktop. The problem is quickly navigating it.

[TJMcFisty]

This looks totally unusable.

Unless you argue for a truly immersive 3D environment with goggles and whatnot, in which case it isn't only the desktop metaphor that becomes unusable, but the whole computer system.

VR failed not only as a technology, but as a concept. Why people keep barking up that tree is beyond me.

Flat screen, flat images. Even our vision isn't really 3D, we can only distinguish depth based on horizontal distance... because our eyes are only offset horizontally.

Blah.


Spoken by philistine that's never worked in a 3D development application.

We distinguish depth on more than horizontal distance/eyes being offset--light and occlusion play large roles in determining depth. Without those factors, people with one eye wouldn't function very well in a 3D world.

Anyway, I've been dreaming of a 3D OS for quite some time, provided the design apps running on top were as well. What official has announced that VR failed as a concept? It's just extremely hard to implement and make saleable--give me a no muss, no fuss two handed/haptic environment, and my productivity doubles.

[jarjarblinks]

I imagine myself working with a desktop that has the functions as demonstrated in the vid.

- Making icons larger and harder to "bump" around so to remonstrate their importance? *damn the important documents are gona be there no matter what and if I accidentally delete them (hardly), Im gona restore it from the Trash Can. Or Time machine.

- lassoing the icons together *err, right now we create a folder and dump it into the folder? we can even name the folder as and what we want eg. Ibiza trip photos

- throwing the icons anyway in a corner *thanks. my wireless mighty mouse can do that too with a flick of my hand

- having the icons in cover flow, grid or fan *Leopard, baby.

- using a pen (if I heard the vid correctly) to move the icons around *damn if I had a terminal with larger real estate like a 24" iMac I'm gona be so damn tired after 10 mins. Not to say having to pick the pen up and down constantly.

- shrinking and crumpling the less important icons * Why don't I just dump the fella into my Trash Can? What, I cant decide if its meant to be deleted or not?

- Now if that version of OS is gona cost me say $200, and I like to have my desktop clean and organised, say, 2 files and 2 folders. Im gona feel shortchanged if the main value of it is the cosmetic appeal of the desktop and the 3D dsnt apply to the programs or have any other major overhaul.
I wonder how much its gona eat off the battery too. I shudder at a mere 2 hr battery lifespan.

That being said, its all clean bow wow now undoubtedly. Something to wow the peeps around. But I'll still stick to Leopard as it is.

[APPLENEWBIE]

This looks totally unusable... Blah.[/I]*

Ditto.

The innovation that would be most helpful to me would be an operating system that does not, maybe cannot CRASH. OS X is much better than windows that way (in my experience), but it could still use some love...

[RTiii320]

Amazing really.:)

[ebouwman]

it looks like its one of those things that look really cool but is really inefficient and unecessary

They could be super inefficient ya, but maybe if they developed a new input device, or something it might be more usable.

Imagine one of those glove things, and then instead of a mouse pointer you had a little hand on the screen, and you could grab and move and throw stuff around. Maybe pinch a window to make it smaller, or throw it to the back of the box and out of your way.

Now that would be sweet, although completely impractical, but ya, really really sweet :cool:

but that looks like Microsoft Bob!

I'm going to have to agree, to a small extent though

[ebouwman]

My feeling is that this won't hit until Mac OSXI or OS11.

maybe it is os11, as in, it would be almost a completely new generation, or redesign of the OS

[haravikk]

Seems gimmicky but ultimately pointless, I doubt it would be particularly useful; a monitor is a 2-d device, stick to 2-d ideas with the odd 3d effect for prettiness please :)

[alexbates]

maybe it is os11, as in, it would be almost a completely new generation, or redesign of the OS

I think they will call it OS X 11.0. I don't think that 3D desktop is going to be for a while, probably not until OS X 11.0. Does anyone think that 10.6 could be the last operating system before Apple decides to completely redesign the GUI?

[Masquerade]

This one:
http://images.macnn.com/macnn/news/0812/macos3d-lg5.jpg
...was done in 1997 in the movie "Men in Black". They had an oval display in their headquarters that had items magnifying in the Dock below.

wow a virtual reality periscope!

[headfuzz]

thts pretty kl , tho im guessing this was before they invented spaces

Apple didn't invent Spaces. Virtual desktops have been a staple feature of various operating systems' GUI's for over 20 years. OS/2 Warp had it back in 1996, numerous window managers for X window servers (ie Unix / Linux / Unix-like OS's) have had them for well over a decade, and according to Wikipedia, the Amiga 1000 had them back in 1985. Spaces is just Apple's implementation of a very, very old idea with no real additional functionality.

Money for old rope. I howled wth laughter back when Leopard had just been released as the fanboy sales guy in Cancom (local Apple reseller)'s face dropped after he'd been trying to tell me how awesome and ahead of the game this new feature of Leopard was when I subsequently gave him a lesson in GUI design history. :D

[Zerias]

Patent will be rejected. Looking Glass 3D was demonstrated by Jonathan Schwartz back in 2003, and the LG3d project was open sourced in 2004 : http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/Sun-Opens-Its-3D-Looking-Glass-Linux-Desktop/

Prior art also exists in Compiz and it's re-absorbed fork of Beryl. Beryl can be observed on the Mepis 6.5 release, made on 04/04/2007 http://www.mepis.org/node/13328

Actually, in all truth, the Drawings submitted by Apple look like carbon copies of Mepis 6.5. Not at all surprising since Warren Woodford is one of the NeXT developers.

Anyways, Compiz itself is from 2006 an accompanied the launch of Novell's XGL X-server : http://www.novell.com/news/press/novell_raises_the_bar_for_the_linux_desktop

So... this isn't really news, and from initial looks, unless Apple has done a lot of work since the patent filings, they are still beyond where Compiz-Fusion is today.

[Aeolius]

Seems gimmicky but ultimately pointless, I doubt it would be particularly useful; a monitor is a 2-d device, stick to 2-d ideas with the odd 3d effect for prettiness please :)

But monitors as we know them won't be limited to 2D projections forever:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/10/06/holographic.television/index.html

[MattInOz]

I like how the bottom surface is depicted as working. Stacking windows like photographs in front of the traditional desktop. like the entire bottom portion of your screen becomes an extended dock.

This would work really well on larger screens like the 30" monitor, but I can see this being something you'd need to turn off on the 13" macbook or air.

I would hope that apps (especially pro apps with many palettes and tools) would be able to continue to access all of the screen real estate.

How cool would it be if the 3d part of the finder/desktop was activated like expose and your desktop zoomed back in 3d at the touch of a button to reveal the 3d interface elements.

Mmmm. Eye Candy. *drool*

Maybe this is why the newer Keyboards have only one expose key and F8 for spaces has Play/Pause on it.

This would allow expose, spaces functions all in one view. so only need one key. Although Agree with others did does seem more geared to Touchscreen than Mouse

[zarusoba]

That Sun demo looks just like OS X.

[haravikk]

But monitors as we know them won't be limited to 2D projections forever:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/10/06/holographic.television/index.html
And how useful are 3d displays going to be? I really don't see them being any use at all for general-purpose work-flow type stuff, such as word-processing, e-mail, browsing etc. For games they could be cool, for 3d-design they could be incredibly useful, but for common use I very much doubt 3d displays will be much more than a novelty that bring practical benefits to specialised areas and "wow factor" to a few others.

It's all well and good to see 3d displays in sci-fi where they have a limited set of cool use-cases, but for anything practical they are actually not that interesting IMO. Even in things like Minority Report, that's actually just a 2d interface on a curved visible area. 2d displays that can appear in the air out of a thin strip would be pretty sweet for saving space and weight, but the concept of the 3d display is overrated.

[abhimat.gautam]

The images in the patents look a lot like Leopard, and may explain the design changes such as the 3D dock and stacks. These changes would be necessary in a 3D workspace. I also feel that multi-touch would be really useful in performing many of the functions in a 3D environment.

[notsofatjames]

i cant see a functional reason to implement this, though apple normally does a good job of implementing something in a way that makes it useful, or easy to disable. I dont use spaces, I turn it off, it doesnt bother me.

I think to make it kind of practical it would be good if you could sort of zoom in on the back wall of the 3d environment to view a 2D environment windows and application that you are using. Then like expose, you invoke the 3D view, that will allow you to move backwards away from the 2D desktop to the 3D environment. From there you can manipulate the window from the current working pane and drop it to the bottom, stick it to the top or sides and out of your current work space, much like the way spaces allow you to move windows from your desktop to another one. Then if you could rotate the 3D environment to make another pane of the cube the active pane, and zoom in to see the application windows on it that side of the cube. Though this would seem to me just to be an eye-candy-ish way of displaying the basic function of Spaces.

[motulist]

Maybe if the used a real 3D display I would be interested.

Or at least one that tricks your eyes like the Stereographic Laser in the Time Traveler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Traveler_%28video_game%29) arcade game. That game was awesome but very few arcades could afford it. I only remember it at Disney land and it was over $1 per game:eek:, unheard of at that time. I assume even Packman is a dollar since I have not been to an arcade in years.147965147966
edit: They should use the above cabinet design and size too:D. I'd want an iBulk.

Dude! I remember that game - the 3D illusion was totally amazing! I only saw it in one place, and never saw it again. But I wonder why they type of 3D appearing display never became popular and never was further developed for any other uses. Because to my young-kid sensibilities, the 3D effect seemed almost totally real.

[nacengineer]

I hope they have an OFF switch. I would hate to get sick because my brain doesn't like to be fooled into processing "3-D" :confused:

[macharborguy]

Cool idea but I can't imagine terribly practical...

Very good point. I have seen many of the 3D desktops for Linux, and the Apple version depicted at the start of the thread is more 3D than those. The linux ones are mainly mapping the desktop onto a 3D shape, but doesn't go into the "depth" that the Apple diagrams show.

If Apple and the all-mighty Jobs finds this new desktop style not to be practical, I am sure we will not see it in the MacOS. If it does get added, some people will find it useful. Others, however, won't find it useful and will have it turned off like Spaces or Time Machine.

[soundof]

3D-Space VFS : http://marcmoini.com/f3_en.html (http://marcmoini.com/f3_en.html)

[ricperry1]

... this laser-beaming-thing ... will require a constant line of sight between the iPhone3D and both eyes, which is very difficult to maintain. When it's behind your back, it can't beam into your eyes (fair enough), but when it's on your far left, the path of sight may require firing a laser beam through the bridge of your nose.

You're not thinking outside the Box enough. Think brain implants! No need for crude lasers!

[mikeinternet]

bring on the eye candy!

[ricksbrain]

Why couldn't this be included with a revised Spaces? The 'box"or whatever you call it serves as a home screen with a variety of self-chosen items, but when Spaces is used, a work surface or traditional desktop swoops in or emerges from the launches app?

I like Apple's use of space beyond the monitor so far-- Time Machine, etc where it feels like the OS is allowing you access to a reality that already exists, just out of view. That's actually a powerful metaphor that could continue to be exploited, methinks.

[Fukui]

While I can understand why some people would think this is a bit dumb to have a "3D" interface, the thing that struck me was the 3-d dock. Its really irritating when I have so many windows minimized and the dock gets smaller and smaller........ when in one of those pics, the windows etc are all neatly organized in 3-d near the bottom....... depth gives more space to stash stuff.... so I'm all for that.....

[SeeLos]

i agree this is sort of eye candy, but i also think it could have some great function too. this would work better on larger displays, but maybe as on option you would only see 2D, but by pressing one of four tilt keys, the screen shifts back to reveal the 3rd dimension, but only to that side or top/bottom of monitor. over all it seems like a pretty cool new thing, and whose to say it wouldn't be touch as well?

[MacFly123]

I think we are going to see a lot of things going 3D in the future and not just computer UIs.

This will be OS XI mark my words. It is only obvious after the 3D dock and Steve saying that Snow Leopard is laying the foundation for the next 20 years and Open CL and Multi-Touch etc.

I really think we will see Snow Leopard, and then OS XI which will be something like this joined by new hardware over the next 3 years that have some serious multi-touch going on with secondary input screens etc.

Can't wait! :D

[Crash1234]

If it would be anything at all like that "bumptop" I would NEVER in a million years want to use it. That thing looks so cluttered an impractical. Why on earth would I want to make the stuff on my computer as cluttered as my real life stuff.

[jlewis2k1]

Hmm, I think this would be something that we will see in OS XI or OS 11... Take a look at when OS X came, it had a completely different look. So, this wouldn't surprise me if apple does do this.

[Dudeman486]

any chance this could be some weird prototype desktop environment for the far off but eventually inevitable multi-touch mac? navigating a cube with a mouse and keyboard is difficult as it is, and to do it fluidly and efficiently is out of the question.

i'm sure that there would be some great gesture controls. dynamic expanding/shrinking, flipping, rotating, moving the contents of the cube, switching cubes, etc, etc.

assuming that the screen is big enough to accomodate 5 finger gestures, or possible more than 5 from multiple hands, the possibilities are nearly endless.

just a thought...

[valanchan]

Part of the Mac appeal is the interface looks very clean and it is simple to use. This looks like it is going to look too complicated and will take time to learn.

[risenphoenixkai]

I hope they're not seriously thinking about putting the menubar anywhere other than where it belongs, at the top of the screen.

One of the areas where OS X's UI kicks Windows' interface to the kerb is the placement of the menubar. In Windows, the menubar is at the top of the window, which can be anywhere on the screen, meaning you have to "hunt" for it. In OS X, the menubar is always, always in the same place - at the top of the screen, so you can use muscle memory to find it instead of having to "zero in" on it with your mouse (trackpad, whatever).

If they put the menubar on the top of the "back wall" in this 3-D implementation, they'll be sacrificing a pretty important UI advantage. Better to have the menubar stay at the top of the screen; make it a "curtain" if you have to, but keep it at the top edge of the screen.

[myrsky]

And again, where's the invention?

[MikeDTyke]

I think people are getting a little too worked up on how cluttered this is by examining the images in the article.

The trouble with patent images is that they tend to represent all the potential options switched on. This is a defensive patent so they are covering all basis.

I could see Apple implementing some of this in a useful and logical way. For instance, any application that has inspector windows ie, photoshop, aperture, iPhoto, Office etc, these could all be displayed on the side walls in such a way that they are easily identifiable yet take up very little space and not cover the primary window. When one is needed click on the docked window on the side wall and it comes to the front, as soon as you click off of it, say back on the primary window, the inspector re-docks.

I've noticed that when you maximise most apps in Mac OS there tends to be unused space at each side on a wide screen monitor, why not keep inspector windows there?

NB. inspector windows are my greatest bugbear with macos, there are apps that depend far to much on these UI irritations, anything that gets them out of the way is good in my book.

M.

[MikeDTyke]

Part of the Mac appeal is the interface looks very clean and it is simple to use. This looks like it is going to look too complicated and will take time to learn.

I agree with part of this, the majority of users still don't understand the concepts behind spaces and expose. I use them and they just go whoa, what just happened?

However i think the side wall, as it's always visible might be something they could pick up on. ie. why has my window ended up turned side ways like that, oh right it's tucked out of the way.

M.

[djdjek]

It would be great... :)

[spydr]

I think a functional 3D desktop interface cannot be successfully implemented without dramatic advances in display technology that would allow real depth as opposed to apparent depth. If it necessitates goggles, so be it.

More important that just improving the desktop paradigm, will be the fact that such a 3D hardware supported interface would be friendlier to our ocular focusing mechanisms (fixated on one plane, it quickly gets fatigued; in long term caused more permanent focusing problems).

So I am all for a paradigm shift in the display technology and befitting UI.

BTW, BumpTop as it looks and feels right now, is not gonna really take of. I hope it improves upon itself substantially. I am already glad for what it has achieved so far, in terms of buzz and interest.

[Digitalclips]

On a flat screen, yes - it's all just more simulation. However, imagine it in a 3D holographic environment where your screen is all around you..:cool:

How about you become handsome, young avatar to wander about in there ... It would make 'Sharing' take on a whole new meaning :)

[xbjllb]

So THAT'S what they've been wasting time on instead of implementing Blu-ray and fixing FCP/FCS and Logic for content creators.

100 years of motion pictures and we STILL don't have 3-D films (and likely never will) and Apple goes there based on some Tom Cruise movie.

Why not all the way to the iBrain, where no interface is required beyond electrodes into your brain?

Someone needs to pull Jobs feet back to the ground, at least occasionally. There's plenty of work on planet earth to be done Apple has been woefully ignoring for almost two years now.

:apple:

[jojo13]

sounds cool :)

[MattInOz]

I think a functional 3D desktop interface cannot be successfully implemented without dramatic advances in display technology that would allow real depth as opposed to apparent depth. If it necessitates goggles, so be it.

More important that just improving the desktop paradigm, will be the fact that such a 3D hardware supported interface would be friendlier to our ocular focusing mechanisms (fixated on one plane, it quickly gets fatigued; in long term caused more permanent focusing problems).

So I am all for a paradigm shift in the display technology and befitting UI.

BTW, BumpTop as it looks and feels right now, is not gonna really take of. I hope it improves upon itself substantially. I am already glad for what it has achieved so far, in terms of buzz and interest.

That's the thing as screen resolution goes up you don't have to use it for a flat screen, a diffraction pattern in the glass could focus some pixel to each eye.

Sure 160+ dpi screens are small now and mostly used in mobile devices but they are getting bigger, so either use that to make the screen finer or you could go 80dpi each eye. Which as you point out could be a much better for our eyes.

Now that would make this real eye candy.

Hey steve did say that the 3D environment was some thing you had to do in pieces to train people in to it.

[Quillz]

Apple has always been about usability first and style second.
Not in the past few years. They seem more obsessed with thinness and build quality than functionality.

[valanchan]

Maybe this is the Apple's of windows 8.

Some of this seems it will make life easier but most will make using a Mac over complex.

[motulist]

Not in the past few years. They seem more obsessed with thinness and build quality than functionality.

Hear hear! I second this, and I add that Apple is also sacrificing functionality in order to make cheaper products that they can market to the average no-nothing computer buy. (I'm not saying Apple shouldn't do this, since the goal of any company is to make money, but it doesn't change the fact that it's bad for us as consumers)

Firewire gone in the name of thinness. Matte screen gone in the name of looking shiny in the store when sitting next to the other manufacturers' shiny screens, and matte is also gone because it's cheaper to sell one screen type than it is to offer an option. Both laptop lines have the same case and very similar internals with very little differentiation because the more similar your products are, the cheaper they are to manufacture. Mac Mini, with components that are literally years out of date, is still being shamelessly sold at the exact same price it had when it was released over a year ago (and it was old technology inside it even on the day it was released). etc.

I've been a huge fan of Apple products for decades. I've seen Apple product quality go through ups and downs. Since Jobs came back Apple product quality has been amazingly incredible. But over the past year or so Apple has definitely been swinging back toward the low quality products again. I hope it's a short detour rather than a long term trend.

That's the way I see it.

[winterspan]

This looks totally unusable.
Unless you argue for a truly immersive 3D environment with goggles and whatnot, in which case it isn't only the desktop metaphor that becomes unusable, but the whole computer system.


I agree. I'm sure some day we will have a 3D or quasi-3D computer interface paradigm, but I haven't seen any conceptual example, whether from a hollywood movie or an academic research laboratory, that is actually practical for daily, general purpose interaction with a computer. Projects like "BumpTop", the old Sun
"Project Lookinglass", and some of the 3D desktop multi-touch demos from Jef Han are certainly innovative and exciting from a technology standpoint, but it's got a long way to go before making it on a Macbook.

[winterspan]

*snip* 100 years of motion pictures and we STILL don't have 3-D films (and likely never will)

Um, actually there have been a handful of stereoscopic "3D" films in the theaters lately, and not all of them are animated. the "U2 3D" concert film was one of the more unique ones. Do you mean 3D films that don't require glasses? There are a few different forms of that technology available, although I'm not sure if any of them work with a projector or theater size room with a 300 different viewing angles. The HDTV sized displays with goggle-less 3D technology are still really expensive, but I'm sure they will eventually be sold to consumers along with some form of updated 3D Blu-ray player for home movies...

[Pikemann Urge]

This reminds me of that '90s Amiga game, Another World. In the intro sequence the character sits down at a holographic cube display.

For some reason it's not easy to find a good screenshot of that but many of you would have seen it.

[Bodine]

The 3D desktop in the You tube video seems cool and looks like it would be fun to play with. I like how when you toss a file it bangs into the others. But it also reminds me of my cluttered desk at work. Stacks of papers usually means I end up spending extra time trying to fine that one document in the middle of one the stacks I have.

[wobudong]

You didn't even use it and you are calling it clutter?

download the looking glass disc and see how it can improve things. You can even flip a browser's window and write on its back some notes.

but yeah, that stuff is old and been done before.

I don't care to spend time turning blocks around or upside down --or front to back, even if it's only a piece of paper. Having icons on a 2-dimensional screen means I can move the cursor back, forth, up and down with minimal movements and minimal time spent calling up a program or file, or just searching (without resorting to Spotlight, necessarily) for a file, etc. This seems to be, at best, playing with blocks. So, I say, "Clutter."
Maybe I'll change my mind if I ever get a chance to try 3-D. Until then.... Clutter.

[pipep]

haven't read any of the posts but inmediatly i feel this is no good news since any sort of "3d" in a 2d screen will take precious pixels out of the working area.

my way of seeing this kind of "updates" is "let's make os x look cool rather than let's make os x faster

just an opinion.

cheers.

[phelix_da_kat]

So you can zoom in and out of the "depth" of the screen..

Say zoom in to go into and through the layer and zoom out to come out.
Then some sort of "home" key/tap to re-center you back to the top.

Rotate, prob not as that would get confusing..

So its like "spaces", but instead of trasistioning laterally, you go through "layers". You heard it first.. LAYERS!! :p

[BaronStein]

Just sum up all of them with this:

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/24/apples-research-on-tactile-feedback-for-touchscreen-keyboard-revisited/

There comes the magic...

[JS77]

***EDIT *** Oops, posted in wrong section!